Superboy Prime vs. WM Thor w/PG

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nvrbeenwthagirl
Can Superboy prime fully charge W/his sun amping suit beat WM Thor w/the PG OR Doth the God of Thunder and Old English make the whiney brat crap his pants? NO BFR

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Can Superboy prime fully charge W/his sun amping suit beat WM Thor w/the PG OR Doth the God of Thunder and Old English make the whiney brat crap his pants? NO BFR

How powerful is SupesBoy Prime?

Kutulu
Originally posted by guy222
How powerful is SupesBoy Prime?

That is a subject of much debate. He was supposedly depowered slightly after coming back from the speed force, as all of his built up yellow solar radiation was depleted. That is why he was wearing the armor, which fed him yellow sunlight (was converted from the sunlight emitted by the red star in the speed zone).

He has some feats which have broken the pure strength level, such as busting out of the phantom zone, and shaking up the multiverse by punching the wall that separated realities or some such. In his severely weakened state he was a good match for the equivilant of two supermen combined.

I'm guessing then, that at optimal power level (when he first got out of the dimension he was in), he would be roughly equivilant to all-star Superman, without the weakness to magic that current Superman has. He can still be hurt by magic, he just doesn't have a weakness to it, from what I recall.

spidey-dude
thor takes this on his own

Superboy Prime
I give the majority to Superboy Prime...WM Thor is wielding the PG, but I doubt he would be using to it's full infinite power potential...Besides SBP could literally lay the smackdown on the asgardian god 2 million times before Thor even managed to react.

Galan007
SBP ftw.

The dude moved around planets like golf balls, speedblitzed 3 seperate Flashes, ripped through the GL corps like they were nothing, and beat the crap out of multiple Supermen (while he was slightly weakened).



And if worse comes to worse, there's always that little Retcon punch of his evil face
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4792/page000060tq.th.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7118/page000071xr.th.jpg

Endless Mike
It seemed to me more like the Flashes speedblitzed him and dragged him into the speedforce.

Galan007
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It seemed to me more like the Flashes speedblitzed him and dragged him into the speedforce. Flashes' pwned:
http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prime5jb.jpg

SBP came back from the Speedforce dump, even more powerful then he was before.

Endless Mike
That's not blitzing, more like punching randomly in every direction to defend himself, and then before we see how it affected the Flashes he gets attacked by some other guys.

He got dragged into the speedforce, I know he came back but at first he got pwned.

Galan007
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not blitzing, more like punching randomly in every direction to defend himself, and then before we see how it affected the Flashes he gets attacked by some other guys. How many character do you know of that can hit 3 different Flashes at the same time?

Board Walker
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not blitzing, more like punching randomly in every direction to defend himself, and then before we see how it affected the Flashes he gets attacked by some other guys.

He got dragged into the speedforce, I know he came back but at first he got pwned.

He was severely much weaker when he came back, as he spent 4 years without any yellow sunlight, and over those 4 years he depleted his cells.

The suit was feeding him a stream of yellow sun light, but he was expending it almost as fast as he was gaining it.

Thus why when his suit was incinerated by the red sun, he still had his powers for several minutes untill he depleted his already depleted cells. (The other two supermen, who had a weakness to Red sun, lost their powers immediately.)

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Board Walker
He was severely much weaker when he came back, as he spent 4 years without any yellow sunlight, and over those 4 years he depleted his cells.

The suit was feeding him a stream of yellow sun light, but he was expending it almost as fast as he was gaining it.

Thus why when his suit was incinerated by the red sun, he still had his powers for several minutes untill he depleted his already depleted cells. (The other two supermen, who had a weakness to Red sun, lost their powers immediately.)

This looks to be mostly conjecture. wasn't superboy prime smashing through the constructs of the combined GLC with that suit?

Before he was dragged into the speedforce, Connor Kent was going Toe to toe with him- WM Thor >>> Connor.

it doesn't matter though. The Power Gem grants infinite power. Champion smashed a planet to pieces with one hit while not even realizing he was using it.

WM Thor with it is just overkill. I think this fight's been done before though..

dvampire
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not blitzing, more like punching randomly in every direction to defend himself, and then before we see how it affected the Flashes he gets attacked by some other guys.

He got dragged into the speedforce, I know he came back but at first he got pwned.

That's speedbilting. He was fast enough to stop them from speedbiltzing him (even if it was only a short time).

Endless Mike
So defending from a speedblitz, even momentarily = speedblitzing?

That makes no sense.

dvampire
Originally posted by Space M ummy
This looks to be mostly conjecture. wasn't superboy prime smashing through the constructs of the combined GLC with that suit?

Before he was dragged into the speedforce, Connor Kent was going Toe to toe with him- WM Thor >>> Connor.

it doesn't matter though. The Power Gem grants infinite power. Champion smashed a planet to pieces with one hit while not even realizing he was using it.

WM Thor with it is just overkill. I think this fight's been done before though..

Connor wasn't going toe to toe with him. SBP beat the living crap out of him. Connor called the Titans to help him out. Even without the suit, SBP recon punch with a speedbiltz will KO Thor before he gets a chance to use the PG properly.

dvampire
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So defending from a speedblitz, even momentarily = speedblitzing?

That makes no sense.

Defending from three Flashes with his own speed is an impressive feat. They speedbiltzed, he stoped it for a short time.

Galan007
Originally posted by dvampire
Even without the suit, SBP recon punch with a speedbiltz will KO Thor before he gets a chance to use the PG properly. I agree.

The Libertine
Originally posted by Kutulu
That is a subject of much debate. He was supposedly depowered slightly after coming back from the speed force, as all of his built up yellow solar radiation was depleted. That is why he was wearing the armor, which fed him yellow sunlight (was converted from the sunlight emitted by the red star in the speed zone).

He has some feats which have broken the pure strength level, such as busting out of the phantom zone, and shaking up the multiverse by punching the wall that separated realities or some such. In his severely weakened state he was a good match for the equivilant of two supermen combined.

I'm guessing then, that at optimal power level (when he first got out of the dimension he was in), he would be roughly equivilant to all-star Superman, without the weakness to magic that current Superman has. He can still be hurt by magic, he just doesn't have a weakness to it, from what I recall.

All Star Superman doesn't have planet moving strength.

Galan007
Originally posted by The Libertine
All Star Superman doesn't have planet moving strength. All-Star Superman has never tried to move a planet.

So we can't say he is incapable of doing something that he has never tried to do.

xmeat
Originally posted by Galan007
SBP ftw.

The dude moved around planets like golf balls, speedblitzed 3 seperate Flashes, ripped through the GL corps like they were nothing, and beat the crap out of multiple Supermen (while he was slightly weakened).



And if worse comes to worse, there's always that little Retcon punch of his evil face
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4792/page000060tq.th.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7118/page000071xr.th.jpg that aint a blitz others have done better.

Galan007
Originally posted by xmeat
that aint a blitz others have done better. Name one person (with the exception of Zoom), whom has done that to 3 Flashes at the same time.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
Name one person (with the exception of Zoom), whom has done that to 3 Flashes at the same time. You know the truth Galan it looks more like he just spins around in circles really fast confused

No offense thats sweet and all but technically normal Supes could do that as well.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
You know the truth Galan it looks more like he just spins around in circles really fast confused

No offense thats sweet and all but technically normal Supes could do that as well. It's still very impressive that such a maneuver would even work on the Flashes though.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
It's still very impressive that such a maneuver would even work on the Flashes though. Maybe but it it in no way shows him speedblitizing or evne truely countering the Flashes with his own speed. It was more his strength mixed with a super spin I doubt three Flashes could contain normal Superman doing that i na similar condition.

Don't get me wrong it was a good feat but one that normal Superman could possibly do.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Maybe but it it in no way shows him speedblitizing or evne truely countering the Flashes with his own speed. It was more his strength mixed with a super spin I doubt three Flashes could contain normal Superman doing that i na similar condition.

Don't get me wrong it was a good feat but one that normal Superman could possibly do. IMO that's an awesome speed feat on SBP's part. Punching 3 separate Flashes at once is something few could pull off.


It may not be a speed-blitz per say, but it's a speed feat worthy of mentioning.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
IMO that's an awesome speed feat on SBP's part. Punching 3 separate Flashes at once is something few could pull off.


It may not be a speed-blitz per say, but it's a speed feat worthy of mentioning. Like I siad it only looks like he spins really fast in a circles not that he actualy takes the time to punch them all.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Like I siad it only looks like he spins really fast in a circles not that he actualy takes the time to punch them all. It could be just that, but to me it looks like SBP is spinning along with throwing seperate punches.

You'll note that he has several hand positions in that panel, and punching sounds ("WHAM"wink were written next to each of them:
http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prime5jb.jpg

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
It could be just that, but to me it looks like SBP is spinning along with throwing seperate punches.

You'll note that he has several hand positions in that panel, and punching sounds ("WHAM"wink were written next to each of them:
http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prime5jb.jpg Maybe but the fact is there is a swirling vortex around him which indicates he was spinning. FOr me it kind of lessens the feat somewhat because it doesn't appear he really out speeded the Flashes.

Know what I mean?

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Maybe but the fact is there is a swirling vortex around him which indicates he was spinning. FOr me it kind of lessens the feat somewhat because it doesn't appear he really out speeded the Flashes.

Know what I mean? I agree that he was spinning, but it also looks like separate punches were being thrown at this time as well.

So SBP was punching 3 Flashes before they could even react.

That's fairly impressive IMO.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree that he was spinning, but it also looks like separate punches were being thrown at this time as well.

So SBP was punching 3 Flashes before they could even react.

That's fairly impressive IMO. I way I see it they were punching and then he spun around knocking them off balance using his strength along with his speed.

Like I said pretty impressive but something I could see Superman pulliing off possibly.

I mean it wasn't like they were trying to avoid him they were dead on attacking.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
I way I see it they were punching and then he spun around knocking them off balance using his strength along with his speed.

I mean it wasn't like they were trying to avoid him they were dead on attacking. It's still impressive that he was even able to hit 3 of them, spinning or not.


Either way, I still maintain that SBP takes this.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
It's still impressive that he was even able to hit 3 of them, spinning or not.


Either way, I still maintain that SBP takes this. Thor has a chance and sometimes I think people over exggerate SBP but he could take this.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Thor has a chance and sometimes I think people over exggerate SBP but he could take this. Yeah, it wouldn't be easy an victory for SBP, (especially since Thor has the PG in this battle).

But I haven't given SBP any more credit then he deserves.

The dude was just an animal.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it wouldn't be easy an victory for SBP, (especially since Thor has the PG in this battle).

But I haven't given SBP any more credit then he deserves.

The dude was just an animal. Besides the planet moving feat which was good he really didn't do to much on his own.

I mean he domiated a bunch of mid-tier people which fine but for one he was made to bleed a few times

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Besides the planet moving feat which was good he really didn't do to much on his own.

I mean he domiated a bunch of mid-tier people which fine but for one he was made to bleed a few times and while ehw as stalemating two Superman it wasn't a curb stomp. He returned from a speedforce dump.

He ripped through a huge chunk of the GLC.

He didn't pwn the Supermen because he was greatly weakened, but he still outright killed one of them.


EDIT: And he punched through the fabric of reality itself causing retcons.

He was a beast.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Galan007
He returned from a speedforce dump.

He ripped through a huge chunk of the GLC.

He didn't pwn the Supermen because he was greatly weakened, but he still outright killed one of them.


EDIT: And he punched through the fabric of reality itself causing retcons.

He was a beast.

I'm in agreement with you (and Emo Prime ftw in this thread btw) but in the GLC's defense those were almost entirely new members (except Hal and Guy).

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
He returned from a speedforce dump.

He ripped through a huge chunk of the GLC.

He didn't pwn the Supermen because he was greatly weakened, but he still outright killed one of them.


EDIT: And he punched through the fabric of reality itself causing retcons.

He was a beast. The GLC are always cannon fodder for every big event just look at Doomsday and Cyborg Superman both were pawning large amounts of GLs.
As for the retcon punch I won't even count that as he appeared to need that wall thing to do it so I don't think he can really do it under his own power.

I'm not saying he was tough but honestly I think anyone that can beat thanos would beat SBP in fact I think Thanos could possibly take a majority over SBP possibly.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
The GLC are always cannon fodder for every big event just look at Doomsday and Cyborg Superman both were pawning large amounts of GLs.
As for the retcon punch I won't even count that as he appeared to need that wall thing to do it so I don't think he can really do it under his own power.

I'm not saying he was tough but honestly I think anyone that can beat thanos would beat SBP in fact I think Thanos could possibly take a majority over SBP possibly.
confused confused confused

nvrbeenwthagirl
Superboy prime clearly says in the panel i'm fast too, and then procedes to pummel them with many many punches. IT's plain as day in the pic. Who has ever gotten that many hits off on one flash let alone 3?

Soljer
I'm observing, but holding off my decision as of yet.

erm. Emoboy was pretty high up there.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superboy prime clearly says in the panel i'm fast too, and then procedes to pummel them with many many punches. IT's plain as day in the pic. Who has ever gotten that many hits off on one flash let alone 3? I did look and I saw him literally spin in circles plus it wasn't like the Flashes are trying to avoid him but before everyone starts to talk about how much faster SBP is then three Flashes actually look at the feat it didn't show SBP avoiding any of the Flashes punches or out running them.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
I did look and I saw him literally spin in circles plus it wasn't like the Flashes are trying to avoid him but before everyone starts to talk about how much faster SBP is then three Flashes actually look at the feat it didn't show SBP avoiding any of the Flashes punches or out running them.
Um SBP doesn't need to avoid any of the flashes punches or outrun them. He can ****ing fly thru a sun and a planet and not dent. The flashes are the ones who needed to avoid planet moving, time retconning punches. And yet he was so fast the took them all of guard. And yes the pic clearly showns him blitzing the flashes. Hell he even makes fun of them and says I"m fast too and pummels them.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um SBP doesn't need to avoid any of the flashes punches or outrun them. He can ****ing fly thru a sun and a planet and not dent. The flashes are the ones who needed to avoid planet moving, time retconning punches. And yet he was so fast the took them all of guard. And yes the pic clearly showns him blitzing the flashes. Hell he even makes fun of them and says I"m fast too and pummels them. Ok I know your one to not take an unbiased look at something and see it in a possibley different light so I won't actually sit here and talk to you but..


The fact is the Flashes were knocking SBP backwards so they were doing something and while they were close he spun around fast. Not any to special still a good feat but nothing to prove him faster than the Flashes.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
Ok I know your one to not take an unbiased look at something and see it in a possibley different light so I won't actually sit here and talk to you but..


The fact is the Flashes were knocking SBP backwards so they were doing something and while they were close he spun around fast. Not any to special still a good feat but nothing to prove him faster than the Flashes.

LOL ur one to talk. WHen you can catch 3 flashes off guard with a move while they are in battle for the lives of millions of people, and they are in a serious mode, then hell yeah, your fast. get over it. It's very evident you dont' like SBP. Cuz as I read it seemed like you were trying to lesson his feats at every chance you got.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL ur one to talk. WHen you can catch 3 flashes off guard with a move while they are in battle for the lives of millions of people, and they are in a serious mode, then hell yeah, your fast. get over it. It's very evident you dont' like spb. Cuz as I read it seemed like you were trying to lesson his feats at every chance you got. I'm just trying to stop people from over doing his feats.

The guy caught three Flashes with a good move impressive yes I have said so where does it say SPB was ever faster than the Flashes or that he speedblitzed at all?

The fact is normal Superman can probaly tag a Flash and do the samething erm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
I'm just trying to stop people from over doing his feats.

The guy caught three Flashes with a good move impressive yes I have said so where does it say SPB was ever faster than the Flashes or that he speedblitzed at all?

The fact is normal Superman can probaly tag a Flash and do the samething erm
So now every time someone speed blitzed, the writers have to put it in a narrative box? that's moronic and simple. The fact that he says I"m fast too and the whirl winds are drawn as he tags them multiple times shows you that he is fast and blitzing them.

SUPERMAN can never tag flash that many times, I don't care if they were attacted at the hip. Read JLA heaven's ladder. The galactic ship that was taking planets away moved so fast that no one could react. Except flash. He ran, started the teleporter and then gave it the speed it needed for them to catch the planet capturing ship that had just taken earth. now your telling me superman who was like a statue to flash could hit flash as many times as sbp did? NOT

dvampire
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superboy prime clearly says in the panel i'm fast too, and then procedes to pummel them with many many punches. IT's plain as day in the pic. Who has ever gotten that many hits off on one flash let alone 3?

Sure it was a great speed! But it'll be dismissed here because SBP is a Superman character. big grin

King Kandy
...Superboy dies...

He's pretty tough, but WM Thor was going to Pwn all of Asgard if left uncontained.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
...Superboy dies...

He's pretty tough, but WM Thor was going to Pwn all of Asgard if left uncontained.

And yet he couldn't own thanos. ASGARD>>>>>Thanos. Besides, SBP was goign to own OA. OA>>>>>>>>>>>>Asgard.

masterbruce
The Thor hype on KMC is ridiculous.

In comics, he is portrayed as a versatile brick, a friggin member of the Avengers, and not even the most important member of the team.

Yet, on KMC, Thor is virtually unbeatable by anyone short of heralds...actually on KMC, even heralds lose to Thor.

Pity, all of the enemies of Avengers (Magneto, Hulk) have often pwned Thor even when he has the help of teammates.

but that's all PIS...because KMC forum members know better than the hundreds of writers who've wrote Thor

on KMC, all low showings are PIS and only the rare once upon a blue moon high showings are true indication of a character

darthgoober
Originally posted by masterbruce
The Thor hype on KMC is ridiculous.

In comics, he is portrayed as a versatile brick, a friggin member of the Avengers, and not even the most important member of the team.

Yet, on KMC, Thor is virtually unbeatable by anyone short of heralds...actually on KMC, even heralds lose to Thor.

Pity, all of the enemies of Avengers (Magneto, Hulk) have often pwned Thor even when he has the help of teammates.

but that's all PIS...because KMC forum members know better than the hundreds of writers who've wrote Thor

on KMC, all low showings are PIS and only the rare once upon a blue moon high showings are true indication of a character
Yes but the same can be said of most popular characters.

Any fight in which Supes doesn't use super speed is considered PIS(along with any instance of his being tagged by someone without super speed). That's despite the fact that people like Metallo or Toyman are able to give him a difficult time when they go against him. Anytime Flash is hit by someone other than a character like Zoom is also classified as PIS. Anytime GL or Surfer doesn't use a truckload of powers right out of the gate to take out the opposition is likewise PIS. Anytime Hulk or another popular brick is going against someone like Cap or Spidey and doesn't use a thunderclap to end the fight before it really begins is PIS as well.

But that's just the way that it is. The fact is that writers downplay abilities that give characters a significant advantage over the opposition(or simply don't familiarize themselves enough with the character to know his full range of abilities) for the sake of the comic's sales whether it's Thor or not. The only requirement is that the character has a large fanbase. That's why the rules regarding PIS are in place, they help protect the character in question from the ignorance of those writing him.

grey fox
Originally posted by masterbruce
The Thor hype on KMC is ridiculous.

In comics, he is portrayed as a versatile brick, a friggin member of the Avengers, and not even the most important member of the team.

Yet, on KMC, Thor is virtually unbeatable by anyone short of heralds...actually on KMC, even heralds lose to Thor.

Pity, all of the enemies of Avengers (Magneto, Hulk) have often pwned Thor even when he has the help of teammates.

Magneto never has a chance , Hulk only wins if Thor fights like a tard.

Now let's also look at this logically , Thor has lifted the planet , has a few hundred millenia of experience , and Mjolnir.

Those factors ALONE mean that anyone but high level characters are going to lose.

Hell Thor IS a herald level character. Indicated when Surfer turned tail and ran like a pussy from him.

Batman-Prime
SBP easy, this is not a fair matchup, WM Thor with PG doesn't stand a chance.

SBP 100/100

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by grey fox
Magneto never has a chance , Hulk only wins if Thor fights like a tard.

Now let's also look at this logically , Thor has lifted the planet , has a few hundred millenia of experience , and Mjolnir.

Those factors ALONE mean that anyone but high level characters are going to lose.

Hell Thor IS a herald level character. Indicated when Surfer turned tail and ran like a pussy from him.

When did Thor lift the Planet?

grey fox
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When did Thor lift the Planet?

He lifted the Midgard Serpent who weighs exactly the same amount as Earth.

masterbruce
Originally posted by grey fox
He lifted the Midgard Serpent who weighs exactly the same amount as Earth.

Do you think any enemies of the Avengers could even lift a fraction of Earth's weight...which would be over quintillions of tons.

Thor is that strong..yet struggles against Magneto taking his hammer or even breaking Mag's forcefield?

Thor is that strong...yet can't over power the Hulk...are you saying Hulk also has the strength now to lift planets?

Thor can't overpower Hercules...guess Hercules has planet lifting strength too.

You have to take the average showings of a character. If Spiderman generally struggles against the likes of Venom and Green Goblin, and one idiotic writer makes him easily overpower a Herald, you'd have to wonder whether that should be accepted or dismissed.

Thor has never demonstrated that he is MUCH STRONGER than any of his opponents, most who would have trouble lifting a mountain, let alone a friggin planet.

Unless you're saying Thor jobs to everyone he fights and that in reality he is hundreds of times more powerful than he is portrayed in comics

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
Do you think any enemies of the Avengers could even lift a fraction of Earth's weight...which would be over quintillions of tons.

Thor is that strong..yet struggles against Magneto taking his hammer or even breaking Mag's forcefield?

Thor is that strong...yet can't over power the Hulk...are you saying Hulk also has the strength now to lift planets?

Thor can't overpower Hercules...guess Hercules has planet lifting strength too.

You have to take the average showings of a character. If Spiderman generally struggles against the likes of Venom and Green Goblin, and one idiotic writer makes him easily overpower a Herald, you'd have to wonder whether that should be accepted or dismissed.

Thor has never demonstrated that he is MUCH STRONGER than any of his opponents, most who would have trouble lifting a mountain, let alone a friggin planet.

Unless you're saying Thor jobs to everyone he fights and that in reality he is hundreds of times more powerful than he is portrayed in comics Actually Hulk has shattered something twice the size of a planet. Along with hitting the planet hard enough to knock it off orbit.


Hercules has held the planet on his back before. Heck when Thor and Herc were arm wrestling they were shown to be shaking the entire planet out of its orbit.

So yes all of those people you just mentioned have planetary moving or lifting feats wink
I think he has some other very good feats as well can't think of them off the top of my head though.

Plus just as Superman is documented as holding back most of the time so does Thor.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
Actually Hulk has shattered something twice the size of a planet. Along with hitting the planet hard enough to knock it off orbit.


Hercules has held the planet on his back before. Heck when Thor and Herc were arm wrestling they were shown to be shaking the entire planet out of its orbit.

So yes all of those people you just mentioned have planetary moving or lifting feats wink
I think he has some other very good feats as well can't think of them off the top of my head though.

Plus just as Superman is documented as holding back most of the time so does Thor.

Let's say you're fighting someone who can bench 100 pounds, let's just say you can bench 1000 pounds (im just using benching for strength)

so you're 10x stronger

even if you held back, you would almost effortlessly be able to restrain that person

Now let's say Thor and Hercules are capable of these planet level strength feats...a planet is at least more than 1000x the weight of a mountain

Now Hulk at base level can lift a mountain and not more...so Thor and Herc are at least 1000x stronger than Hulk (or any enemy that Thor struggles against...Ultron, Magneto, etc)

This would be akin to you fighting someone who can barely lift a 5 pound dumbell. thus, even if they were half asleep, with one armed tied behind their back, they should have no trouble overpowering Hulk as they are 1000x stronger

Thor should overpower pretty much all of the Avengers enemies with ease....even holding back, as how many of them can even lift a mountain, which is less than 1/1000th the weight of earth

ya get me?

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
Let's say you're fighting someone who can bench 100 pounds, let's just say you can bench 1000 pounds (im just using benching for strength)

so you're 10x stronger

even if you held back, you would almost effortlessly be able to restrain that person

Now let's say Thor and Hercules are capable of these planet level strength feats...a planet is at least more than 1000x the weight of a mountain

Now Hulk at base level can lift a mountain and not more...so Thor and Herc are at least 1000x stronger than Hulk (or any enemy that Thor struggles against...Ultron, Magneto, etc)

This would be akin to you fighting someone who can barely lift a 5 pound dumbell. thus, even if they were half asleep, with one armed tied behind their back, they should have no trouble overpowering Hulk as they are 1000x stronger

Thor should overpower pretty much all of the Avengers enemies with ease....even holding back, as how many of them can even lift a mountain, which is less than 1/1000th the weight of earth

ya get me? I get ya but your wrong.

For one thing Hulk has shatter with a punch something twice the size of Earth and his pnch has knocked Earth off its orbit. Hulk is alot stronger than just a mountain lifter.

Secondly Superman should never get hit by half the peopel who don't really possess Superspeed but he does.

THe Flash should never get tagged by anyone but they do why because they are described as holding back. So yeah Thor doesn't just BFR half of the Avnegers enemies becuase he holds back more than people think.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying he was tough but honestly I think anyone that can beat thanos would beat SBP in fact I think Thanos could possibly take a majority over SBP possibly. I've never seen a Thanos-level being punch through the fabric of reality with brute force alone.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Who has ever gotten that many hits off on one flash let alone 3? Zoom is the only one that comes to mind.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
I've never seen a Thanos-level being punch through the fabric of reality with brute force alone. Hulk has stick out tongue

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
I get ya but your wrong.

For one thing Hulk has shatter with a punch something twice the size of Earth and his pnch has knocked Earth off its orbit. Hulk is alot stronger than just a mountain lifter.

Secondly Superman should never get hit by half the peopel who don't really possess Superspeed but he does.

THe Flash should never get tagged by anyone but they do why because they are described as holding back. So yeah Thor doesn't just BFR half of the Avnegers enemies becuase he holds back more than people think.

For one thing Hulk has shatter with a punch something twice the size of Earth and his pnch has knocked Earth off its orbit. Hulk is alot stronger than just a mountain lifter.

So does Hulk hold back also?

I mean if his punches can shatter a planet...then anyone he punches should be dead...no ifs, buts, about it

people who have taken Hulk's punches:
Spiderman
Captain America
Iron Man
Wolverine
Thing
etc, etc

so these people can withstand a planetshattering force? ( i know, you're going to say that the planet shattering punch was the high point of Hulk's strength and he usually doesn't punch that hard...fine, assuming his usual punches are 10 times weaker, no better yet 100 times weaker, it should still EASILY kill any of the above people)

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
For one thing Hulk has shatter with a punch something twice the size of Earth and his pnch has knocked Earth off its orbit. Hulk is alot stronger than just a mountain lifter.

So does Hulk hold back also?

I mean if his punches can shatter a planet...then anyone he punches should be dead...no ifs, buts, about it

people who have taken Hulk's punches:
Spiderman
Captain America
Iron Man
Wolverine
Thing
etc, etc

so these people can withstand a planetshattering force? ( i know, you're going to say that the planet shattering punch was the high point of Hulk's strength and he usually doesn't punch that hard...fine, assuming his usual punches are 10 times weaker, no better yet 100 times weaker, it should still EASILY kill any of the above people) Well its because Hulk's rage is equal to how much strength he has so he isn't always at those levels of strength.

So everybody on that list survived more than likely because they weren't facing a Hulk that wasn't that strong stick out tongue

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
Well its because Hulk's rage is equal to how much strength he has so he isn't always at those levels of strength.

So everybody on that list survived more than likely because they weren't facing a Hulk that wasn't that strong stick out tongue

you know what, this is Marvel's fault

In reality, Thor may be as strong as you say and he should be off fighting Midgard serpents

he should not be a member of Avengers fighting enemies who are in actually thousands of times weaker than him

Galan007
Originally posted by DigiMark007
but in the GLC's defense those were almost entirely new members (except Hal and Guy). Absolutley.

Even so, tearing through that many GL's (new to the trade, or not), without so much as slowing down, is certainly a feat worth mentioning:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6324/icaz4.th.jpg

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
you know what, this is Marvel's fault

In reality, Thor may be as strong as you say and he should be off fighting Midgard serpents

he should not be a member of Avengers fighting enemies who are in actually thousands of times weaker than him In reality he is as strong as I say and has enough feats to say so.

Its teh samethign with DC and Superman when he can't simply restrain someone obviously weaker then him. stick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by masterbruce
you know what, this is Marvel's fault

Basicly.

As time passes writers want to make impressive feats for characters and start ignoring what thier original limitation were supposed to be. PreCrisisSuperman

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Hulk has stick out tongue Has Hulk ever torn through it in such a degree, that it literally messed up the time-stream and caused retcons? no

Plus, combine that kind of power with all of SBP's other abilities, and you get a being too powerful for his own good. stick out tongue

masterbruce
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Basicly.

As time passes writers want to make impressive feats for characters and start ignoring what thier original limitation were supposed to be. PreCrisisSuperman

I don't mind making characters impressive, but just make them consistent

If Thor can destroy planets...he should pretty much deal with every earth villain with a flick of his finger

Marvel shouldn't have a guy who can crush an object of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000s of tons one day to struggle against a guy who is barely in the 100 ton class.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
Has Hulk ever torn through it in such a degree, that it literally messed up the time-stream and caused retcons? no

Plus, combine that kind of power with all of SBP's other abilities, and you get a being too powerful for his own good. stick out tongue Yes but Hulk didn't need a wall to be there he just punched into then air stick out tongue

You see that is my problem with SBP's retcon punch. I don't think he could have done it without that wall there and the fact that he literally didn't retcon punch anything else proves just thaterm

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Yes but Hulk didn't need a wall to be there he just punched into then air stick out tongue

You see that is my problem with SBP's retcon punch. I don't think he could have done it without that wall there and the fact that he literally didn't retcon punch anything else proves just thaterm He never tried to punch through reality besides that one time.......... So who knows? srug

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
He never tried to punch through reality besides that one time.......... So who knows? srug I do because he honestly was only able to perform that one feat because there was a kind of mystical/magical/deminsional(whatever you want to call it) in front of him. The fact is besides that one instance he never sh wed any kind of reality warping power at all before or after

I think I'm more than justified in saying NO SBP does not have any reality warping powers of his own erm

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by masterbruce
I don't mind making characters impressive, but just make them consistent

If Thor can destroy planets...he should pretty much deal with every earth villain with a flick of his finger

Marvel shouldn't have a guy who can crush an object of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000s of tons one day to struggle against a guy who is barely in the 100 ton class.

Which is exactly the problem. There's nothing wrong with making powerful characters but when you then have to make them experience forgotten limitations or ignore feats just to make a scene work it starts to seem ridiculous.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
I do because he honestly was only able to perform that one feat because there was a kind of mystical/magical/deminsional(whatever you want to call it) in front of him. The fact is besides that one instance he never sh wed any kind of reality warping power at all before or after

I think I'm more than justified in saying NO SBP does not have any reality warping powers of his own erm The fact that he was the only being capable of this sepaks for itself.

And again, that was the only instance where SBP tried to punch through reality, so of course he didn't demonstrate this kind of ability a second time.

Newjak
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which is exactly the problem. There's nothing wrong with making powerful characters but when you then have to make them experience forgotten limitations or ignore feats just to make a scene work it starts to seem ridiculous. Every major top-tier character goes through this.

Everytime one of the JLA solos the rest of the team this happens. No one herald should ever solo the JLA by themselves yet everytime a member goes bad it happens. erm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by grey fox
He lifted the Midgard Serpent who weighs exactly the same amount as Earth.

THat serpent didn't look as big as the earth. Do you know what would happen to the earth if something the same weight as it were to actually come in contact with it? the earth would be destroyed. It would collapse.

masterbruce
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THat serpent didn't look as big as the earth. Do you know what would happen to the earth if something the same weight as it were to actually come in contact with it? the earth would be destroyed. It would collapse.

to be fair, the laws of physics of reality don't apply in comics

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
The fact that he was the only being capable of this sepaks for itself.

And again, that was the only instance where SBP tried to punch through reality, so of course he didn't demonstrate this kind of ability a second time. Correction he was the only being there to try it. No one knows if Superman could do the same with his fists or any strong character. Without the wall what would he hit to cause the Retcons. How come everytime he hit someone he doesn't simly retco ntheir entire past. Ho come he didn't use his Reality punches to change the red sun into a yellow sun.


I would also like to point out SBP escaping the Speedforce didn't cause any retcons.

The FACT is that without that wall there SBP has never shown ANY REALITY WARPING PWOERS at all. So if anyone does one thing now its a perfect match they can do it all the time. Seems very iffy to me and for someone who normally needs much more evidence for something then this you sure are taking it as cold hard fact stick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Newjak
Every major top-tier character goes through this.

Everytime one of the JLA solos the rest of the team this happens. No one herald should ever solo the JLA by themselves yet everytime a member goes bad it happens. erm

This is why I like manga (fewer returning enemies )

Their are advantages to having a single author control the continuity.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by masterbruce
to be fair, the laws of physics of reality don't apply in comics

TO be fair, they operate on some basic principles, and if someone is going to just say the serpent weighed as much as the earth, when no where on panel did it ever say that, then I am going to say why the serpent could not have weighed as much as the earth. hell the serpent wasn't any where near the mass of the earth. at best it was only as large as the equator in it's length and it's mass wasn't that great. From the effects it was having on the earth, I would say it weighed less than the moon since the moon getting just a little bit close to the earth would cause more dmg.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
How come everytime he hit someone he doesn't simly retco ntheir entire past.

perhaps, the same reason that everytime Hulk punches a streetleveler they don't die or everytime Thor fights an avengers villain he struggles...

stick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
TO be fair, they operate on some basic principles, and if someone is going to just say the serpent weighed as much as the earth, when no where on panel did it ever say that, then I am going to say why the serpent could not have weighed as much as the earth. hell the serpent wasn't any where near the mass of the earth. at best it was only as large as the equator in it's length and it's mass wasn't that great.

How do you know it wasn't incredibly dense?

masterbruce
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How do you know it wasn't incredibly dense?

his point isn't that it isnt dense. Hes saying if it were the mass of earth, then its gravitional field would've destroyed the very planet Thor was standing on to lift it.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
Correction he was the only being there to try it. No one knows if Superman could do the same with his fists or any strong character. Without the wall what would he hit to cause the Retcons. How come everytime he hit someone he doesn't simly retco ntheir entire past. Ho come he didn't use his Reality punches to change the red sun into a yellow sun.


I would also like to point out SBP escaping the Speedforce didn't cause any retcons.

The FACT is that without that wall there SBP has never shown ANY REALITY WARPING PWOERS at all. So if anyone does one thing now its a perfect match they can do it all the time. Seems very iffy to me and for someone who normally needs much more evidence for something then this you sure are taking it as cold hard fact stick out tongue

I seem to remember in one of the side books, sbp punched one of the titans with no retcon wall and caused a retcon of that person.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I seem to remember in one of the side books, sbp punched one of the titans with no retcon wall and caused a retcon of that person. Really can you point how who and wha was retconed

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by masterbruce
his point isn't that it isnt dense. Hes saying if it were the mass of earth, then its gravitional field would've destroyed the very planet Thor was standing on to lift it.

I'm aware of what would happen in a world controled by physical laws and not comicbook writers.

Where do we get the idea that the Serpent was the weight of a planet?

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
perhaps, the same reason that everytime Hulk punches a streetleveler they don't die or everytime Thor fights an avengers villain he struggles...

stick out tongue You see this may be true if there wasn't a demionsal wall that SBP had to use to do the feat.

Now if Thor only has only lifting feat where he had to use a machine to help him would you say Thor really has Planet moving strength no you wouldn't.

Same principle here without the Wall SBP hasn't shown any reality warping powers so no one can really say that it wasn't simply the wall being effected that caused all that instead of SBP.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
Really can you point how who and wha was retconed

I don't remember exactly. It was one of the titans. I think it was garth, the changling guy. Im almost sure of it. He got punched and was instantly retconned into another version of himself.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't remember exactly. It was one of the titans. I think it was garth, the changling guy. Im almost sure of it. He got punched and was instantly retconned into another version of himself. So he hits a guy and his costmed changed?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
So he hits a guy and his costmed changed?

NO, he changed into an alternate version of himself. Superboy prime has used the retcon punch more than once, im almost postive of it and without the crystal wall thing.

Newjak
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO, he changed into an alternate version of himself. Superboy prime has used the retcon punch more than once, im almost postive of it and without the crystal wall thing. Did they make mention os this i nthe book?

And by the way I would like to point out that simply changing someone's appearance way different then what happened at the crstal wall.

If anything this only shows that the wall either was the sole source or was the only focale point SBP could have done that big a feat. Basically eitehr way SBP needed the cyrstal.

That is once again going back to my Thor remark. Thor is naturally strong say he lifts a mountain well he has the power right then he needs a machine to help him move a planet it doesn't mean Thor can move planets all the time he has to have that machine to help him.


SBP's machine was the Crystal wall.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
That is once again going back to my Thor remark. Thor is naturally strong say he lifts a mountain well he has the power right then he needs a machine to help him move a planet it doesn't mean Thor can move planets all the time he has to have that machine to help him. SBP doesn't need tech to move planets.

I would like to know your argument for Thor here.

How do you think he can win?

dvampire
Thor never lifted the Midgard Serpent (he pulled it with help from a the boat he standing on in space) and Hercules never held the planet on his back.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
SBP doesn't need tech to move planets.

I would like to know your argument for Thor here.

How do you think he can win? You obviously didn't get eh whole concept. And I'm not saying Thor wins maybe I should have used hypotheical A nstead of Thor's name. I'm mostly trying cut the overhypng of some of SBP's feats.


Either way the point is is A can lift a car but needs a machine to help amplify his power to move a planet therefore A doesn't possess planet moving power.

The point I was trying to make is that for SBP his planet moving machine would be like the crystal. There is no way he could have done it without the Crystal Wall as there is no proof to say he defenlty could without anmd no matter how much you try there is no proof SBP could have done anything close to what he did at that wall. stick out tongue

Newjak
Originally posted by dvampire
Thor never lifted the Midgard Serpent (he pulled it with help from a the boat he standing on in space) and Hercules never held the planet on his back. Yes Hercules did shown on panel when he was redescribing his Labors wink

Edit and Thor only used the Boat to gain Leverage in space he even comments to the giant on board that he is only using his strength

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
You obviously didn't get eh whole concept. And I'm not saying Thor wins maybe I should have used hypotheical A nstead of Thor's name. I'm mostly trying cut the overhypng of some of SBP's feats.


Either way the point is is A can lift a car but needs a machine to help amplify his power to move a planet therefore A doesn't possess planet moving power.

The point I was trying to make is that for SBP his planet moving machine would be like the crystal. There is no way he could have done it without the Crystal Wall as there is no proof to say he defenlty could without anmd no matter how much you try there is no proof SBP could have done anything close to what he did at that wall. stick out tongue So your Thor post was basically an analogy for SBP's retcon punch?

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
So your Thor post was basically an analogy for SBP's retcon punch? Yes I only used Thor's name because it was the first to come to mind stick out tongue

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Yes I only used Thor's name because it was the first to come to mind stick out tongue Gotcha! wink

dvampire
Originally posted by Newjak
Yes Hercules did shown on panel when he was redescribing his Labors wink

Edit and Thor only used the Boat to gain Leverage in space he even comments to the giant on board that he is only using his strength

He didn't show it, he bragged about. Thor was pulling it though, not lifting it. I have to find the scan though, to make sure.

Newjak
Originally posted by dvampire
He didn't show it, he bragged about. Thor was pulling it though, not lifting it. I have to find the scan though, to make sure. Not only did he say it they showed him doing it wink

dvampire
Originally posted by Newjak
Not only did he say it they showed him doing it wink

He bragged about it, he was drunk (unless you actually think earth could really be that tiny). Show the scan, it's there. wink

Newjak
Originally posted by dvampire
He bragged about it, he was drunk (unless you actually think earth could really be that tiny). Show the scan, it's there. wink Because an artist could really show Hercules holding the Earth without some give on the scale. roll eyes (sarcastic)


The fact is Marvel made his twelve Labors cannon and thus the Earth holding feat as one of them is cannon erm

dvampire
Originally posted by Newjak
Because an artist could really show Hercules holding the Earth without some give on the scale. roll eyes (sarcastic)


The fact is Marvel made his twelve Labors cannon and thus the Earth holding feat as one of them is cannon erm

Because Herc never held the Earth. He was drunk and bragging to females about his strength and how he's stronger than Thor.

But hey, beleive what you want. I never seen either of them lift the planet or an object the size of a planet. Do I think they could? Maybe. But whatever.

I still give this to SBP btw.

Newjak
Originally posted by dvampire
Because Herc never held the Earth. He was drunk and bragging to females about his strength and how he's stronger than Thor.

But hey, beleive what you want. I never seen either of them lift the planet or an object the size of a planet. Do I think they could? Maybe. But whatever.

I still give this to SBP btw. NO Marvel time and time again showed that all of Hercules ancient adventure were cannon.

From Holding the Earth to his journey with Jason everyone is cannon roll eyes (sarcastic)

dvampire
Originally posted by Newjak
NO Marvel time and time again showed that all of Hercules ancient adventure were cannon.

From Holding the Earth to his journey with Jason everyone is cannon roll eyes (sarcastic)

Like I said, I don't really care anymore.

SBP wins.

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