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Well, seeing as all the mixed opinions about the Lucas quote, I'm making this thread just for people to say what they think. I'm probably gonna keep myself out of this one, to busy at the moment!



Damn, saw this one just a little more below! Oh well, guess this one makes a fresh start about the quote thing! And 1 + score for my posts....

Happy Birthday Rampant Ox!!!!!!!

Anakin could possibly take this if he remnains completely calm and focused. If not then Yoda wins. Overall I'd put my money on Yoda 8/10.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Anakin could possibly take this if he remnains completely calm and focused. If not then Yoda wins. Overall I'd put my money on Yoda 8/10.

Huh?

Anakin is better with a lightsaber, while Yoda is a lot better with Force powers and thus overall and isn't this Anakin versus Sidious?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin is better with a lightsaber, while Yoda is a lot better with Force powers and thus overall and isn't this Anakin versus Sidious?

was about to point this out

Originally posted by darthsith19
Anakin could possibly take this if he remnains completely calm and focused. If not then Yoda wins. Overall I'd put my money on Yoda 8/10. Yoda......but this is Sidious isn't it?

Wuteva man, gimme some of whatever that shit is. *inhales deeply* Oh shit son! Yoda's gonna pwn R2!

Wha-? I swear this said Yoda! Whatever, though, my verdict still stands. But with Sidious replacing Yoda.

Originally posted by kamikz
Happy Birthday Rampant Ox!!!!!!!

Cheers.

I don't see Anakin having any chance of defeating Sidious. He lost to Obi-wan, who got raped by Dooku, Sidious' inferior. I'd like to quote LS on the issue, "Actually, Lucas says only Mace and Yoda can compete with Palpatine. Period.

Anakin is not them."

but anakin pwned Dooku, so there goes that theroy out the window.

Too bad for the idea that Anakin pwned Dooku is the fact that Sidious had instructed Dooku to lose. Dooku was to let Anakin capture him.

He had never been instructed to lose. He was told that it was a test, and that if Anakin somehow got the better of him Sidious would interfere. Although it is true that Dooku was never meant to kill Anakin, which might have been the point you were trying to make.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Too bad for the idea that Anakin pwned Dooku is the fact that Sidious had instructed Dooku to lose. Dooku was to let Anakin capture him.

What the- ?

Glenctract I never would have expected something like that from you!

i seem to recall "fighting for his life", and "treat it as my crowning achievement". It's been settled that Anakin won fairly, due to being superior. There's absolutely no point in "testing" someone and not giving it your all. If you believe the contrary to be true, you're an idiot.

By the way, prove to me that Dooku was to let Anakin capture him.

Read the ROTS novel. I can post some quotes from it tomorrow but I won't be able to get to it tonight. In it Dooku was thinking about the plan Sidious had come up with that had him killing Obi-wan and then faking a loss to Anakin. The test by Sidious on Anakin was not to see if he was strong enough to defeat Dooku, but to see if he was strong enough to kill an unarmed prisoner; a Dark Side thing no matter how you look at it.

You also remember how Dooku realized Anakin was too powerful for him and Palpatine promised to intervene if Dooku's life was in danger?

Anakin won that fair and square

Anakin by the time of ROTS was the best lightsaber dualist ever, up until that point, but Dooku still had better Force powers.
Sidious can easily defeat Anakin, like in the place like the Senate, but if Anakin can force a lightsaber duel in a close room, with no objects to throw for Sidious, Anakin has a god chance of wining.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin by the time of ROTS was the best lightsaber dualist ever, up until that point, but Dooku still had better Force powers.
says who, anakin is ONE of the best duelists not the absolute best
Originally posted by Count Makashi

Sidious can easily defeat Anakin, like in the place like the Senate, but if Anakin can force a lightsaber duel in a close room, with no objects to throw for Sidious, Anakin has a god chance of wining. Sidious can just simply pull anakin out of "the zone" to cloud his "crystal mind" and thus kill him with the lightsaber

In a saber battle, Anakin easily takes it.

Not really....

Why not? Anakin is much more skilled, and much more technically gifted. He was able to overpower fricking Count Dooku, and fend off Cin Drallig effortlessly with one hand on his saber, while using the other to physically choke a padawan. Sidious hasn't got anything on him, except possibly greater strength with the force (enhanced reflexes, superior precognition etc.). Maybe the 'easily' was taking it a bit too far, but he firmly has it if it were to come to that.

anakin because hes the chosen one duh

Originally posted by allfg
Why not? Anakin is much more skilled, and much more technically gifted. He was able to overpower fricking Count Dooku, and fend off Cin Drallig effortlessly with one hand on his saber, while using the other to physically choke a padawan. Sidious hasn't got anything on him, except possibly greater strength with the force (enhanced reflexes, superior precognition etc.). Maybe the 'easily' was taking it a bit too far, but he firmly has it if it were to come to that.



And still, Sidious killed the three called "some of the greatest swordsmen the order had produced", in seconds. He was even as good or even superior to Mace in pure swordsmanship, but his shatterpoint technique got Sidious down.
He is as you said, stronger (possibly), faster (definetly), better reflexes and force using.
He is more experienced and could break Anakin easily with words and mocking insults. He also knows more styles.


I'd say they're pretty close!

That quote is bullshit, because if those three jedi were some of the greatest swordsman the order had ever produced, they would have put up a fight, and not get tooled by an incompetent duelist. Now either the quote is wrong, or jedi as a whole really aren't very powerful. Logic points against the second statement. Now in terms of Sidious killing Agen and Mace, that doesn't speak for him at all, all it does is speak against Agen and Saesee. Anyone would have been able to kill them under those circumstances, their reflexes were like those of an old man, they sucked. Now Kit, while performing better, was still terrible; he left himself completely open and his lightsaber strikes were simple and predictable. I'd put that little hologram footage of Anakin easily above this feat of Sidious'.



Mace also sucked. Slow, and technically terrible.



FYI, this hasn't been proven, and Gideon seems to have been lying when he said that it was said in the novelisation.



Physical strength? Hell no. I said strength with the force, and that's a maybe.



That's crazy.



Possibly. However, with the speed, physical strength and technique edge, Anakin firmly has this.



No he's not, he was out of practise for 13 years.



No he wouldn't. Please explain how. IIRC, when Dooku even attempted that on Anakin, it only made him stronger.



Not true.



I wouldn't, Sidious is going down, hard!

Anakin is faster.
Anakin is physically stronger.
Anakin is technically more gifted.
Anakin has better and more recent experience.
Anakin has greater dueling feats.
Sidious has nothing, except possibly greater application of the force that can tie in with dueling (precognition for example), however given that he can't amp up his speed to the same degree that Anakin can, I heavily doubt that other applications of the force, such as reflexes and previously mentioned precognition would work for him any differently.

There's no way Sidious would have this in a lightsaber battle.

Originally posted by allfg
That quote is bullshit, because if those three jedi were some of the greatest swordsman the order had ever produced, they would have put up a fight, and not get tooled by an incompetent duelist. Now either the quote is wrong, or jedi as a whole really aren't very powerful. Logic points against the second statement. Now in terms of Sidious killing Agen and Mace, that doesn't speak for him at all, all it does is speak against Agen and Saesee. Anyone would have been able to kill them under those circumstances, their reflexes were like those of an old man, they sucked. Now Kit, while performing better, was still terrible; he left himself completely open and his lightsaber strikes were simple and predictable. I'd put that little hologram footage of Anakin easily above this feat of Sidious'.



Mace also sucked. Slow, and technically terrible.



FYI, this hasn't been proven, and Gideon seems to have been lying when he said that it was said in the novelisation.



Physical strength? Hell no. I said strength with the force, and that's a maybe.



That's crazy.



Possibly. However, with the speed, physical strength and technique edge, Anakin firmly has this.



No he's not, he was out of practise for 13 years.



No he wouldn't. Please explain how. IIRC, when Dooku even attempted that on Anakin, it only made him stronger.



Not true.



I wouldn't, Sidious is going down, hard!

Anakin is faster.
Anakin is physically stronger.
Anakin is technically more gifted.
Anakin has better and more recent experience.
Anakin has greater dueling feats.
Sidious has nothing, except possibly greater application of the force that can tie in with dueling (precognition for example), however given that he can't amp up his speed to the same degree that Anakin can, I heavily doubt that other applications of the force, such as reflexes and previously mentioned precognition would work for him any differently.

There's no way Sidious would have this in a lightsaber battle.



OR, it speaks of Sidious incredible duelling skills beating those three, which Lucas said was THE POINT in that scene, show Sidious power. So that's that....
He outdueld Kit while fighting against Mace as well, that should be freaking impossible, and killing Saesee or however was first was because he tried to read his mind (in novelisation, not movie), but the others he was to fast for....



Lol, stop judging them by actors. Mace freaking pwns in sword duelling.


No, that's what happened.



No, he wasn't called "the shadow" for nothing, being so goddamn fast that Mace had a hard time, Mace who could move so fast "he was invicible".


No, Sidious has the speed part.



Yes he is, how do you know? First of all, he matches the likes of Yoda and Mace in sword combat, he has spent time as a dark lord, it is very possible he trained with sword there. There is no noticable difference from where he was in TPM, Sidious was sickly good, mastered all the forms, moving damn fast, and being possibly the top force user in 6 movies.



And what does Dooku know about Anakin? Sidious knows ALL his weakpoints, he knows more than anyone except Padme about Anakin, he would easily break him. He knows about the sand people, he knows about him killing Dooku, he knows about his marrige and love to Padme, he could break him easily as hell.




It is true!


Sidious has better speed.
Sidious DOES have duelling experience AND feats. Matching Yoda blow for blow, Mace blow for blow, slaughtering the 3 best swordsmen in the order (outside Obi, Ani, Yoda, Mace and Cin) in mere seconds. Anakin's greatest feat is defeating Dooku. (Mace > Dooku, Yoda >> Dooku)
Sidious has the greater reflexes.
Sidious could break him easily.


And why the heck would it come down to a saber duel? Sidious will kill him with the force before it begins if he really wants to win....

Anakin would probably take Sidious in a saber duel, but it'd be far from easy...

Originally posted by kamikz
OR, it speaks of Sidious incredible duelling skills beating those three, which Lucas said was THE POINT in that scene, show Sidious power. So that's that....

And Anakin wouldn't have been able to stab two people who didn't move a muscle or even attempt to defend themselves?



Not really, both sucked. I could just say that physically choking a padawan and still being able to defend against Cin should be freaking impossible.



Contradiction.



If Sidious' slow ass speed was too fats for them, imagine what Anakin's speed would have been for them.



IMO, no he doesn't. The movies which supersede all of the EU, and quite clearly displays a very whack swordsman when it comes to Mace Windu. He's slow, unskilled, and technically terrible.



Proof? If you're referring to the novelisation, then you're wrong, as I have it right in front of me, and the only time Shatterpoint is even mentioned is when Anakin comes into the room, and Mace senses that Anakin is Sidious' shatterpoint. It had nothing to do with the duel.



Movies > EU.



No he doesn't, he's slow, Anakin is leagues above him in speed.



Stated in the Ultimate Visual Guide. Being out of practise for that long makes whatever experience he had before irrelevant. Anakin on the other hand had been constantly fighting in the Clone Wars, and had been in tons of life and death lightsaber battles.



No he doesn't. Struggling against Yoda for about 10 seconds and having to force a force duel does not equate to matching.



Mace sucks.



UVG disagrees.



1. For the last time, he didn't master every form. He viewed saber combat as being beneath himself, and refereed to it as a 'jedi game'. There's no reason he would have dedicated himself to every form, he was far too busy with training in the darkside of the force. And even if he did, considering how out of practise he was, it wouldn't make a difference. Anakin is firmly much more technically better than Sidious is.

2. Dude, what is your point? You know that anything from the EU that contradicts with the movies is retconned, why do you keep bringing that stuff up?



So what? Please explain how he'd be able to 'break' Anakin with that knowledge in this scenario. What, do you think if he just tells Anakin that he banged Padme and that she's carrying his children, and not Anakin's, then Anakin will just put his lightsaber down and start crying? LOL, don't be silly, it's not as simple as that, you can't just claim he'd be able to emotionally break Anakin based on those few facts.



No it's not. If you still disagree, please either offer proof, or concede that particular point.



No he doesn't.



I didn't say he didn't, I just said that Anakin's is better.



You mean struggling against Yoda?



Mace, who sucked?



And Anakin wouldn't? If anything, Anakin would do exactly the same, yet with more style.



Mace is not better than Dooku. The movies make that clear, and even the EU.



Prove it! Sidious might be stronger with the force, and might therefor have greater reflexes, but you really can't prove it.



Before the ten seconds that it will take Anakin to defeat Sidious is up?



1. It really wouldn't be very hard for Anakin to close the gap between them and force a lightsaber duel, though I suppose it depends on the setting.

2. It hasn't been proven that Sidious is even more powerful in the force.

3. If anything, we can say for sure that both are pretty close in the force. However, there have been plenty of examples where a weaker force user was able to defend against the attacks of a stronger one (example - Kas'im and Bane), and I just don't see how the match would be decided through those means.

Originally posted by allfg
And Anakin wouldn't have been able to stab two people who didn't move a muscle or even attempt to defend themselves?



Not really, both sucked. I could just say that physically choking a padawan and still being able to defend against Cin should be freaking impossible.



Contradiction.



If Sidious' slow ass speed was too fats for them, imagine what Anakin's speed would have been for them.



IMO, no he doesn't. The movies which supersede all of the EU, and quite clearly displays a very whack swordsman when it comes to Mace Windu. He's slow, unskilled, and technically terrible.



Proof? If you're referring to the novelisation, then you're wrong, as I have it right in front of me, and the only time Shatterpoint is even mentioned is when Anakin comes into the room, and Mace senses that Anakin is Sidious' shatterpoint. It had nothing to do with the duel.



Movies > EU.



No he doesn't, he's slow, Anakin is leagues above him in speed.



Stated in the Ultimate Visual Guide. Being out of practise for that long makes whatever experience he had before irrelevant. Anakin on the other hand had been constantly fighting in the Clone Wars, and had been in tons of life and death lightsaber battles.



No he doesn't. Struggling against Yoda for about 10 seconds and having to force a force duel does not equate to matching.



Mace sucks.



UVG disagrees.



1. For the last time, he didn't master every form. He viewed saber combat as being beneath himself, and refereed to it as a 'jedi game'. There's no reason he would have dedicated himself to every form, he was far too busy with training in the darkside of the force. And even if he did, considering how out of practise he was, it wouldn't make a difference. Anakin is firmly much more technically better than Sidious is.

2. Dude, what is your point? You know that anything from the EU that contradicts with the movies is retconned, why do you keep bringing that stuff up?



So what? Please explain how he'd be able to 'break' Anakin with that knowledge in this scenario. What, do you think if he just tells Anakin that he banged Padme and that she's carrying his children, and not Anakin's, then Anakin will just put his lightsaber down and start crying? LOL, don't be silly, it's not as simple as that, you can't just claim he'd be able to emotionally break Anakin based on those few facts.



No it's not. If you still disagree, please either offer proof, or concede that particular point.



No he doesn't.



I didn't say he didn't, I just said that Anakin's is better.



You mean struggling against Yoda?



Mace, who sucked?



And Anakin wouldn't? If anything, Anakin would do exactly the same, yet with more style.



Mace is not better than Dooku. The movies make that clear, and even the EU.



Prove it! Sidious might be stronger with the force, and might therefor have greater reflexes, but you really can't prove it.



Before the ten seconds that it will take Anakin to defeat Sidious is up?



1. It really wouldn't be very hard for Anakin to close the gap between them and force a lightsaber duel, though I suppose it depends on the setting.

2. It hasn't been proven that Sidious is even more powerful in the force.

3. If anything, we can say for sure that both are pretty close in the force. However, there have been plenty of examples where a weaker force user was able to defend against the attacks of a stronger one (example - Kas'im and Bane), and I just don't see how the match would be decided through those means.



All those above points you do the same as you always do, you take the movie to literally.

You ONLY judge the actors. WE KNOW that Mace is superior to Maul, however, Ray Park is superior to Samuel L Jackson, thus Maul seems to be more skilled, he isn't...


And if him reading his mind is a contradiction, then he had NO EXCUSE to be that slow, thus Lucas point with that scene just explaining Sidious power is correct. They WERE good, Sidious were just THAT much better. He is extremely skilled.

No, it expands the point. Once again, wouldn't be very fun if we didn't see Sidious or Mace move in that fight would it? It is true, Sidious is that fast.


10 seconds against Yoda? He fought all the time down there, then they cut to Anakin and Obi-Wan. At that time, they have reached the pod and are going upwards. ONCE AGAIN it cuts, then it shows Sidious tossing pods. It's easily over 5 minutes.


Star Wars characters > Actors.


Mace owns, he would beat Dooku, EU makes that pretty clear, so does the movies.


Sidious has about 40 years more experience in duelling, he has still been taught by Plaggy, trained Darth Maul AND being credited by TPM to be better than Bane.



Your just arguing actors vs actors, doesn't work. And the EU expands the movies, the movies fit so that we can see it, like how explosions can be heard in space, doesn't mean that they actually do. Once again, EU expands....

If were gonna play this "Lets judge characters by there 50+ year old actors" then by taking the movie literally (as your doing) Lucas contradicts himself and the movies when he says that when Vader was hacked up he dropped down to the level of people who can't compete with Sidious, people on that level being: Dooku and Maul, then he says: "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious."

Now by your logic of taking the movie scenes completely literally, Maul, Padawan Obi Wan Kenobi, Oui Gon Jinn, ROTJ Luke Skywalker, AOTC Anakin, AOTC Obi Wan, and Dooku are all better then ROTS Mace and Sidious because their actors are:

A. Younger

and

B. Move faster

See how faulty your logic is? When we have scenes with 60+ year old actors doing the stunts and scenes themselves, you simply cannot take them literally because of the sheer amount of contradictions that would arise in that case. Hence why we use the EU to supplement scenes from the movie that either don't make sense or have actors that can't physically perform on the level that their characters can.

It's only the highest form of canon.



How do we know that? If it's indicated in the EU, then it's subject to being made invalid by the highest form of canon.



I don't care about what moronic explanation Lucas comes up with, you (the viewer) can quite clearly see that whatever Lucas' intention was, the scene speaks far more for the lack of skill on the jedi's part then it does for how powerful Sidious was. Again, would Anakin not have been able to do the same in that situation?



Out of story explanations don't qualify, dude.



My bad about the ten seconds, but 5 minutes? How do you even know that the Yoda/Sidious battle was happening at the exact same time that the Anakin/Obi-Wan was. People just assume so, because they're both played at the same time, but you don't know for sure. It's likely they weren't in real time together. I'm not sure if you get what I'm saying, what I mean is that during the middle of Yoda and Sidious' duel, where it switches to the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel, because there's not really any proof that both duels were consistently in real time together, you don't really know how long the part of the duel that we didn't see was, and you can't use the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel as comparison.



What you need to get, is that in most cases, the skill of the movie characters is 100% dependant on the actors that portray them, unless a stunt double or CGI is used. The actors are who represent the characters in the highest form of canon.



Not really. Yoda indicates that Count Dooku was pretty much his most powerful student ever in Dark Rendezvous.



Oh my days, are you being serious? The movies, in no way indicate that.



Dude, again, this experience is irrelevant, as he was over ten years out of practise by RotS.



Dude, this is just getting silly. Bane would decimate any incarnation of Sidious that's not his DE one. That quote that Lightsnake provided has been proven to be inconclusive.



Yes it does.



However, when it contradicts, it's invalid.



Actually, it's explained that fighters having speakers inside of the cockpit to simulate sound.



So that's what the E stands for..

FYI the stunt doubles for the Mace v Sidious fight weren't there according to the extra features on the ROTS dvd thus the fight was done on the spot with SMJ and Ian doing all the moves right there with no months of prep time like Hayden and Ewen had.

Again by your logic TMP Padawan Obi Wan Kenobi > Sidious and Mace Windu based on their actors performance, but wait doesn't Yoda say that ROTS Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi is to weak to face Sidious, "liek OMG contradiction!"

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
If were gonna play this "Lets judge characters by there 50+ year old actors" then by taking the movie literally (as your doing) Lucas contradicts himself and the movies when he says that when Vader was hacked up he dropped down to the level of people who can't compete with Sidious, people on that level being: Dooku and Maul, then he says: "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious."

I'm not seeing your point. Make it clearer. Now.



Hold up, I may have been focusing on speed earlier, however that doesn't mean I view it as the be all end all of who would win in a duel, I still consider technique as a big factor, and as shoddy as Mace's is, it's still superior to RotJ Luke's, TPM Obi-Wan's, AotC Obi-Wan's, and AotC Anakin's. The other's? Not so much. Qui-Gon, Darth Maul and Count Dooku are all very likely superior to both Mace and Sidious in dueling ability.



Oh yeah!



The way I see it, the movie's are the highest form of canon, and best represent Lucas' true vision. Now if Lucas was completely against what was displayed, he would have made an executive decision to use some CGI special effects, or pull some stunt doubles in to make the duels better. He didn't, so you just have to accept that what we see is Lucas' true vision. And the contradictions that arise work against the EU, not movies.



It's only your opinion that they don't make sense. Now the EU can be used as supplementary material, but when it contradicts, it loses - it's that simple.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
FYI the stunt doubles for the Mace v Sidious fight weren't there according to the extra features on the ROTS dvd thus the fight was done on the spot with SMJ and Ian doing all the moves right there with no months of prep time like Hayden and Ewen had.

Whatever, ignore what I said below about Lucas' vision, however, there's still the fact that out of universe explanations cannot be used as excuses as to why something in the story happens as it does. You're only arguing against canon, otherwise.



Read below, that's not what I'm saying.



liek OMG, you're dumb!! You completely missed what Yoda was getting at whenh he said that. Sidious would take out OBi-Wan with the force; it wouldn't come to sabers. There's also the fact that the novelisation makes it clear that both Yoda and Mobi, at that point, were heavily overestimating how powerful Sidious was.

So now apparently Qui Gon Jinn, is a better duelist then Mace Windu even when in the TMP novel he said Mace was his better even though Mace at that point hadn't mastered his shatterpoint ability or Vaapad completely. Oh yeah sure buddy, and TMP Obi Wan moves with MUCH more fluidity and speed then Mace displays in ROTS, again by your logic TMP Obi Wan and Qui Gon > Mace Windu.

As for my other point that you can't seem to understand, Lucas says Maul and Dooku and such can't compete with Sidious, and only Mace and Yoda can, your claiming Dooku, Qui Gon and Maul can all compete with Sidious. You see how you fail?

I don't see why it can't considering those the scene in question doesn't fit "Lucas's vision" and "Lucas's vision" can be seen in the ROTS Novel thats what he word edited and agreed with. His stunt doubles didn't show so he was forced to use 60 year old actors, 60 year old actors who are nowhere near the physical level of their characters, or even Hayden and Ewens physical level.




A huh and you know this how? Especially when Sidious engaged 4 Masters alone, why would he spar Obi Wan the same if he could just hack him?

Ok, I'm not gonna bother to state it again since you already went ahead to say what I thought xxXAcStyles.


(Replying that is)

Good god, and here I thought Noobaris was going to stop posting for his own sake. Guess not.

yea all this fu*k-er is doing is embarrasing himself, i reconmend we ignore n00baris because he does not even have elementry school education


And nebaris, before you say "go back to thailand kadet!!", just to let you know im already here and having a hell of a fun time banging your mother

Con.
Tra.
Dic.
Tion.



Hactually, it's stated in shatterpoint that he pretty much mastered the ability when he was a small child. The fact that he had difficulty employing Shatterpoint in pretty much every lightsaber duel he was in makes your point pretty much irrelevant, anyways. And allow lying about him not mastering Vaapad at that point; we have no clue when he created it, allow lying.



1. Qui-Gon, yes, and what's so wrong with that? It's what the movies quite clearly display, and even in the EU, Qui-Gon was constantly known as one of the top jedi, and he was even stated to be on par with Mace at one point.

2. Obi-Wan, no. His technique at that stage was very much worse than Mace Windu's, and there's also the fact that Mace Windu has undoubtedly higher reflexes and precognition abilities, and employing his shatterpoint ability wouldn't be too difficult against an opponent that constantly leaves themselves open. He's still much faster and much more agile, but lesser in all other ways.



1. Lucas is a moron. Just because he created Star Wars, it doesn't mean he can just come out with whack shit that just doesn't make sense.

2. What you still don't seem to understand is the context in which all these things are said. There's more to jedi fighting than simple lightsaber duels; force battles can also be a major aspect. What you have to understand is that I'm only speaking in respect to dueling ability, whereas Lucas is speaking in respect to overall combat prowess, and more than likely specifically force battles. See how you fail?



Dude, the movies are what they are, and arguing against what they display is arguing against canon. Out of universe explanations don't apply.



Whether I know it or not doesn't matter. The point is, when Yoda said that, he wasn't absolutely saying that Obi-Wan couldn't compete with the Emperor in respect to dueling ability, which was your point all along, and seeing as the Movies make it clear that Obi-Wan would decimate Sidious in a lightsaber duel, I think my interpretation is the correct one. There's also the fact, which I mentioned earlier, that both Yoda and Obi were heavily overestimating how powerful Sidious was at this point. The novelisation explained that they both believed that even together, they would be no match for Sidious. Yoda clearly displayed that he was, in fact, a match for Sidious, so it's pretty clear that their prior estimation of him was slightly inaccurate.



BCOS Obi-Wan isn't a moron that will just stand still on the spot and get hacked to pieces?

Originally posted by allfg


Dude, the movies are what they are, and arguing against what they display is arguing against canon. Out of universe explanations don't apply.

Dude then by your dumb logic, tpm obi wan > mace, qui gon > mace and maul > mace, the highest form of canon proves this by ur shitty logic. Then i guess DE fuks with rotj cuz we saw boba die when he fell into the sarlacc, his reappearence was explaind in an out of universe perspection by mr chee and several novels, and you were quick to point that out, 1 word my friend hypocrisy. God learn to stand by what you said numbnut.

^Exactly, the guy is already a proved liar and hypocrite, he goes on about how the movie should be taken completetly literally to a T then starts using EU sources to explain why Mace should be better then Obi Wan.

Mace states in the ROTS novel that he hadn't truley perfected the form till Shatterpoint

"There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself, But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding. on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkenss and learned that the power of the darkness is not to be feared."

Qui Gon is not on the level of TMP Mace Windu, the TMP novel makes it clear that after there short duel on Tatooine that Qui Gonn was out of breath gasping for air and Maul wasn't even really trying. Then when Maul does try he hacks Qui Gonn in half.

Lucas's words on HIS characters > your shitty opinion. Get that through your head.

And since you seem to be on this Obi Wan > Sidious in a straight duel, that must also mean Obi Wan > Yoda since you know Yoda had trouble dealing with Sidious in a straight duel, but you apparently think Obi Wan would "decimate" him.



And you know this how? But its nice to know KMC forum user Nebaris speaks for George Lucas Since when did Lucas specify what exactly he was speaking of? He says flat out "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious." on any level because Mace duels him straight with no force powers till the end.

But according to your shitty logic of "OMG 60 year old acters fightin shuldz be takan litralllys!" Obi Wan Kenobi is better then Mace, Yoda and Sidious in lightsaber dueling simply because his actor isn't an old man who didn't go through months of practice for his fight scenes." Also accroding to your logic, Boba's dead forever and there is sound in space in the Star Wars universe, Great Job!

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
^Exactly, the guy is already a proved liar and hypocrite, he goes on about how the movie should be taken completetly literally to a T then starts using EU sources to explain why Mace should be better then Obi Wan.

Mace states in the ROTS novel that he hadn't truley perfected the form till Shatterpoint

"There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself, But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding. on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkenss and learned that the power of the darkness is not to be feared."

Qui Gon is not on the level of TMP Mace Windu, the TMP novel makes it clear that after there short duel on Tatooine that Qui Gonn was out of breath gasping for air and Maul wasn't even really trying. Then when Maul does try he hacks Qui Gonn in half.

Lucas's words on HIS characters > your shitty opinion. Get that through your head.

And since you seem to be on this Obi Wan > Sidious in a straight duel, that must also mean Obi Wan > Yoda since you know Yoda had trouble dealing with Sidious in a straight duel, but you apparently think Obi Wan would "decimate" him.



And you know this how? But its nice to know KMC forum user Nebaris speaks for George Lucas Since when did Lucas specify what exactly he was speaking of? He says flat out "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious." on any level because Mace duels him straight with no force powers till the end.

But according to your shitty logic of "OMG 60 year old acters fightin shuldz be takan litralllys!" Obi Wan Kenobi is better then Mace, Yoda and Sidious in lightsaber dueling simply because his actor isn't an old man who didn't go through months of practice for his fight scenes." Also accroding to your logic, Boba's dead forever and there is sound in space in the Star Wars universe, Great Job!


PWNED

Sidious would pwn Anakin in the force...

Originally posted by vader11
Sidious would pwn Anakin in the force...

Yes he would, but Anakin has a small chance of wining, if he forces a lightsaber duel.