Kyle Rayner vs Wolverine ("will power battle")

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juggernaut66666
Who wins?
roll eyes (sarcastic)
No PIS allowed for Wolverine.

jinzin
wolverine.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Kyle.

masterbruce
Logan has one of the strongest wills...the guy won't quit before Kyle does.

Rewmac
Kyle. There is a reason why Green Lantern's get their "powers" the rings. Because they have mass amount of will power. The whole comic is based on that. And now you are telling me a guy with bad attitude, healing factor, claws and fighting skills has a bigger will than a galactic warrior???

steverules
He does when he has the power of PIS yes

Rewmac
Or KMC Upgrades...People are doing some major Wolverine fanatism around here...But I haven't seen anything like this before....

Symmetric Chaos
Kyle.

Sure Wolvie is tenacious but I doubt that he can match the will of a person who has basicly had to train himself to use his will power constantly (I think Hal was once at the point where he could will himself back from the brink of death).

steverules
Soon it'll be wolverine can beat Galactus and wolverine can bake better cookies that the girl scouts

jinzin
Originally posted by Rewmac
Kyle. There is a reason why Green Lantern's get their "powers" the rings. Because they have mass amount of will power. The whole comic is based on that. And now you are telling me a guy with bad attitude, healing factor, claws and fighting skills has a bigger will than a galactic warrior???

yeah pretty much..

see here's the thing half of wolverine's personality is the ability to forego any weakness of will, toss doubt out the window, go berserk, and turn willpower into something more akin to an unstopable force of nature...


we're STILL trying to figure out if wolverine's even been put down while in a true berserker rage...

and there's been plenty of instances where he's just simply willpowered his way through TK or TP to the point that it's not even funny.

"it doesn't think , it doesn't feel pain, it kills..." how can kyle compare to something like that when he faltered at the sight of deathstrokes mere bravado?


he can't.. that's how.

jinzin
Originally posted by steverules
Soon it'll be wolverine can beat Galactus and wolverine can bake better cookies that the girl scouts

laughing out loud

srankmissingnin
Wolverine's will is indomitable and it always has been... it's a pretty big part of his character.

LORDSIDIOUS01
Logan wins.

jinzin
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Who wins?
roll eyes (sarcastic)
No PIS allowed for Wolverine.

lol does that implyy that pis IS allowed for GL?

figures.. roll eyes (sarcastic)

bigbran
Originally posted by jinzin
"it doesn't think , it doesn't feel pain, it kills..." how can kyle compare to something like that when he faltered at the sight of deathstrokes mere bravado?
So, basically, you're basing Kyle's will off of one showing?
Hmm...

juggernaut66666
Oh Jinzin your "tactics" are so lame you keep bringing up the PIS/low showings of each character who is fighting against Wolverine in the threads and of course you forget about Wolverine's PIS and low showings.roll eyes (sarcastic)

jinzin
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Kyle.

Sure Wolvie is tenacious but I doubt that he can match the will of a person who has basicly had to train himself to use his will power constantly (I think Hal was once at the point where he could will himself back from the brink of death).

doesn't wolverine do that on a routine basis? confused

bigbran
Originally posted by jinzin
doesn't wolverine do that on a routine basis? confused With a healing factor?

srankmissingnin
Wolverine uses his will power to go through months of brutal torture with his captives only finding out his name.... Kyle uses his will power to make big green hammers.

steverules
Here comes round 1 of the arguments and name calling

jinzin
Originally posted by bigbran
So, basically, you're basing Kyle's will off of one showing?
Hmm...

there's a lot more than that.. kyles willpower has always been a faltering point for the guy... he's got willpower sure.. and no one said he didn't.. but he's like spiderman in a lot of ways characteristically speaking and simple fact is that he'll flinch well before wolverine ever will in a contest of wills.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by jinzin
doesn't wolverine do that on a routine basis? confused

Like in the excutioners song when wolvie got shot with freaking bullets and faltered and even said his freaking ribs were broken. When he had adamantium. lol.

guy222
Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Logan wins.

cosigned, sidious. he heals from anything. his tenacity equals the hulk

jinzin
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Oh Jinzin your "tactics" are so lame you keep bringing up the PIS/low showings of each character who is fighting against Wolverine in the threads and of course you forget about Wolverine's PIS and low showings.roll eyes (sarcastic)

well that's some pretty pathetic opinion you've got there...

No i briing up character traits and consistency that shouldn't be overlooked in these forums.. something everyone who read through a respect thread seems to forget around here.

and who said I'm "forgetting" wolverine's low end showings.. it's not my job to set up an anti wolverine debate.. it's the other sides.. why should I have to?

jinzin
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Like in the excutioners song when wolvie got shot with freaking bullets and faltered and even said his freaking ribs were broken. When he had adamantium. lol.

cracked you mean?

he actually says that a lot.. but that has more to do with the anatomy of a ribcage moreso than the fact that his ribs were actually broken.. which obviously they weren't.

steverules
Hey guys...I think my adamantium ribs are broken, I got shot my non adamantium bullets

jinzin
Originally posted by bigbran
With a healing factor?

what does the healing factor have to do with it?

wolverine 48 pretty much displayed that the HF is useless without the will to use it.. wolverine doesn't have to come back to life according to that story.. he chooses to, he wills himself to.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jinzin
doesn't wolverine do that on a routine basis? confused

He comes back thanks to his HF not because he forces his body back to life.

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by jinzin
well that's some pretty pathetic opinion you've got there...

No i briing up character traits and consistency that shouldn't be overlooked in these forums.. something everyone who read through a respect thread seems to forget around here.

and who said I'm "forgetting" wolverine's low end showings.. it's not my job to set up an anti wolverine debate.. it's the other sides.. why should I have to?
Yeah sure what was the 1st thing you come up with?
ZOMG KYLE LOST TO DEATHSTROKE AND WOLVERINE>>>>
DEATHSTROKE!!!!!
Pfff. no

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by jinzin
what does the healing factor have to do with it?

wolverine 48 pretty much displayed that the HF is useless without the will to use it.. wolverine doesn't have to come back to life according to that story.. he chooses to, he wills himself to.

hmm. Kyle, a guy who was a nobody with no powers, who got thrusted into being a hero, who lost 3 girlfreinds becuz of him being a hero, who created one of the universes most powerful cosmic beings, and then turned into one of the multiverses most powerful beings, against a scrappy mutants will? I'll take kyle's will over Wolverine. Kyle had the will to actually hold a big hang. The feat is in his will, not the power of the ring.

jinzin
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He comes back thanks to his HF not because he forces his body back to life.
wrong.

jinzin
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Yeah sure what was the 1st thing you come up with?
ZOMG KYLE LOST TO DEATHSTROKE AND WOLVERINE>>>>
DEATHSTROKE!!!!!
Pfff. no

and is it 100% accurate?
yes


did it happen?
yes

was anything I said there incorrect? no

WrathfulDwarf
Go Wolvie...beat the living day lights out that puke Kyle.

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by jinzin
and is it 100% accurate?
yes


did it happen?
yes

was anything I said there incorrect? no
no expression

jinzin
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
hmm. Kyle, a guy who was a nobody with no powers, who got thrusted into being a hero, who lost 3 girlfreinds becuz of him being a hero, who created one of the universes most powerful cosmic beings, and then turned into one of the multiverses most powerful beings, against a scrappy mutants will? I'll take kyle's will over Wolverine. Kyle had the will to actually hold a big hang. The feat is in his will, not the power of the ring.

i don't see how kyle having cosmic power equates to him having more will... erm


when wolverine went cosmic, then did he too have a greater will then his regular coutnerpart? erm

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jinzin
wrong.

So you're saying that sans HF he would revive from having his heart blown up.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by jinzin
i don't see how kyle having cosmic power equates to him having more will... erm


when wolverine went cosmic, then did he too have a greater will then his regular coutnerpart? erm
U missed the entire premise. His cosmic power has nothing to do with it. It's his will to go on. His will to be a hero inspite of losing so many loved ones. His will tobe a hero when he was thrust into it. His will enabled him to beat oblivion and become ion. his will allowed him to hold a big bang.

Hercules
Originally posted by steverules
Soon it'll be wolverine can beat Galactus and wolverine can bake better cookies that the girl scouts

Well he does bake great cookies! however if he ever offers you a brownie, politely decline. embarrasment

I really don't know enough about Kyle Rayner to enter this debate, I just wanted to make that bad joke and leave. embarrasment

srankmissingnin
Wolverine rejected to power of the Crystal of Ultimate vision. He was god, he could mold all of reality as he saw fit but he rejected that power because he knew it wasn't his place to do so, no matter how sound his rational. He rejected to power of god. Who else could do that? How many people can taste complete godlike power with out being corrupted?

EDIT: I know Kyle did similar with his powers as Ion, but not on the same scope IMO.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He rejected to power of god. Who else could do that? How many people can taste complete godlike power with out being corrupted?

Thanos got the HOTI and in the end came out arguably less corrput (seeing as how he sacrificed his life to remake reality).

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine rejected to power of the Crystal of Ultimate vision. He was god, he could mold all of reality as he saw fit but he rejected that power because he knew it wasn't his place to do so, no matter how sound his rational. He rejected to power of god. Who else could do that? How many people can taste complete godlike power with out being corrupted?
Kyle. HAd it, and rejected it's misuse.

Juntai
Kyle.

Bouboumaster
Define Will power.

But I would say Thanos.

Juntai
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Define Will power.

But I would say Thanos. He's not in the thread.
It's between Kyle Rayner, and Wolverine.

Beta Ray Howard
Kyle has a greater will than Wolverine. They're not even comparable. The only reason Wolverine does what he does is for killing people. He's an adrenaline junkie.

Hal is a GL because he's a true hero, plain and simple.

If Wolverine were a Lantern, he'd make John Stewart look good, and anyone who says different doesn't know jack sh!t about the GLC.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Define Will power.

But I would say Thanos.

blink

Grimm22
Wolverine may be tough, but in terms of will power, he is WAY outclassed here

Kyle 1000/10

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by jinzin
and there's been plenty of instances where he's just simply willpowered his way through TK or TP to the point that it's not even funny. How many instances have you of him willpowering his way through TK? The Deathverine one?

For TP I can probably find at least a dozen instances of him being pwned by it.

Anyway Kyle.Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine rejected to power of the Crystal of Ultimate vision. He was god, he could mold all of reality as he saw fit but he rejected that power because he knew it wasn't his place to do so, no matter how sound his rational. He rejected to power of god. Who else could do that? How many people can taste complete godlike power with out being corrupted?

EDIT: I know Kyle did similar with his powers as Ion, but not on the same scope IMO. Longshot probably would have rejected it too. doped

Soljer
I know this is Kyle, but just as a comparison....weren't Superman and Batman called 'less-wills' when compared to Hal? Hasn't Kyle been said to have even GREATER will power than Hal?

Rewmac
I don't know why Jinzin says Wolverine. I hate to say that but it's just foolishness.

Soleran
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
How many instances have you of him willpowering his way through TK? The Deathverine one?

For TP I can probably find at least a dozen instances of him being pwned by it.

Anyway Kyle. Longshot probably would have rejected it too. doped thumb up


Lol deathverine laughing

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine uses his will power to go through months of brutal torture with his captives only finding out his name.... Kyle uses his will power to make big green hammers.
Do you know anything about Kyle?
no expression

Swanky-Tuna
I forsee 30 more pages of "It's not so much the cosmic ring but more the will" and "It's not so much the healing factor but more the will."

starlock
LOGAN hands down

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Kyle has a greater will than Wolverine. They're not even comparable. The only reason Wolverine does what he does is for killing people. He's an adrenaline junkie.

Hal is a GL because he's a true hero, plain and simple.

If Wolverine were a Lantern, he'd make John Stewart look good, and anyone who says different doesn't know jack sh!t about the GLC.

I DONT THINK YOU KNOW S*** ABOUT GLC, hal is only a hero because of retcon's my friend plain and simple,he showed us his true face as parrallax and the writers had to make up this creature-parallax just to give him his reputation back haha lol,if you dont agree read batmans words thru out hals resurection

Not comparible? remember when kyle had his back burned by effigy's creations? look what he had to do to heal himself right,logan goes thru that every issue,flesh burned eyes melted ears destroyed,tissue destroyed down to the bone etc.etc.etc with enhanced senses which amplifies the pain,

logans healing factor does NOT make the pain go away i would say kyle as a newbie compared to logans 100 years experience is not even close to the will logan has

juggernaut66666
WTF???
Did you know tha Parallax was the reason Gls had yellow weakness?Kyle's "powers" are based on willpower Wolverin's healing factor isn't.

starlock
Yeah i did but did the writers of the story arc which made hal a villian know this ? NO,it was a retconn,so hal could come back and be a hero, there was no paralaxx creature when hal went nuts it was told later that he was affected by Parallax the yellow impurity creature years later

Btw i am the biggest GL fan,i am 37 years old and collected over 100 issues with hal and every issue with kyle, kyle is my favorite GL by far it is only my opinon but kyle is not like other GL's ,also ION is my favorite character right now so i do love the character

Priest
I wonder who would win if both wolvie and Kyle has Gl ring? roll eyes (sarcastic)

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by Priest
I wonder who would win if both wolvie and Kyle has Gl ring? roll eyes (sarcastic)
Exactly.

starlock
the better question would be if both got the ring the same way same time different place who would win right off the bat hmmmm who would win?, we know kyle is kyle because of GL so he obviously has skill hehe

Juntai
Originally posted by Soljer
I know this is Kyle, but just as a comparison....weren't Superman and Batman called 'less-wills' when compared to Hal? Hasn't Kyle been said to have even GREATER will power than Hal? I dunno, Hal has willed himself back to life a couple times.

Rewmac
Originally posted by Priest
I wonder who would win if both wolvie and Kyle has Gl ring? roll eyes (sarcastic) Wolverine couldn't even get the ring on. The ring would refuse him. The ring has to accept you too or the Guardians.

Validus
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine uses his will power to go through months of brutal torture with his captives only finding out his name.... Kyle uses his will power to make big green hammers.
lol I hope you weren't serious with this one.

juggernaut66666
It's Val! eek!

StarsNeverFall7
Wolverine's will against Kyle who reached omnipotence based off of a ring that is solely based on a persons will power...hrmm...

Kyle character is ALL about will, Hal was fearless and became Parallax. Kyle was a little emo artist who had to use his will to over come everything and out do the power Parallax had.

Kyle's will is far beyond what Wolverine could comprehend.

Accel
The thing is, comparing wills isn't that easy. Wat I've noticed is that people are generally comparing Wolverine's mutant powers to Kyle's power ring, which is a silly argument altogether.

I mean, Wolverine's will helped him avoid death after being burned to a skeleton... with the help of a mutant healing factor. And Kyle's will contained a big bang... with the help of a power ring that can essentially do any thing.

StarsNeverFall7
Last I checked Wolverines healing isn't will powered, its natural depending on the severity of the wound/damage...

But lets go with that for a second...one person being burned to a skeleton...or a big bang...hrmmm not hard to see the better of the two here.

Accel
Yeah, because the power ring has nothing to do with it...

StarsNeverFall7
The ring gives him the facilities to hold the big bang...

His will is what held it since his will powers the ring to what it can do. Ring is only as powerful as the bearers will, and well the will to hold a big bang is far above that of reviving from a skeleton..

Accel
You keep missing the point that Kyle's will wouldn't mean jack without the ring in the first place. It doesn't show superior willpower than Wolverine's healing factor does for him.

StarsNeverFall7
You keep missing the point that the ring is based solely off of a persons will power, alas a GL's power level is in direct correlation with their will. You could hand a crack head the ring, are they going to be able to use it? No, why? They don't have the will to.

Like I siad earlier as far as I know Wolverine's healing isn't will powered, its just natural depending on the severity of the damage done.

Accel
I'm aware of what powers a GL ring, but considering all the things a power ring can do, you can't just use Kyle containing a big bang as proof of superior willpower because Wolverine doesn't have any thing to compare to a weapon like that that feeds off his will.

And a case can also be made for Wolverine's healing factor, since he did pretty much fight off an illusion to avoid dying after losing all his body mass. But it's not like you can take away Kyle's ring, suddenly burn off all his body mass, except for the skeleotn, and then delcare that he has less willpower because he doesn't heal back.

StarsNeverFall7
Take away Wolverines healing, he isn't going to get burned to a skeleton and come back. Not to mention his healing isn't will powered as far as im aware unless someone has a scan showing otherwise..

Kyle whole character is sheer will power. The ring can do ANYTHING you can WILL it to do. Like I said you can't give a crack head a GL ring and expect him to do anything with it. Now give the same crack head Wolverines can heal from one cell and he should have no problem coming back from a skeleton..

Accel
And take away Kyle's power ring and you'll find he won't be quite as successful in even containing grenade going off. And if a crack head wouldn't be able to withstand the pain Wolverine has to tolerate when ever he loses all of his skin or fight Lazarus when he's about to die. It works both ways. Kyle's whole is utilizing his willpower into making the most powerful weapon in the universe do his bidding, which doesn't show Kyle has superior willpower, but that he has a much more practical use for it.

You're not comparing their respective willpowers. You're really just comparing Kyle's power ring to Wolverine's mutant nature.

Jax_Jax
i wonder why this thread has gone this far???

anyway. like the guy said, hyles power is the power of will. no way is wolver/god/omnipotent/overrated/-ine

ever coming close the willpower of which kyle possesses

StarsNeverFall7
That's because his ring is his power, that would be like taking away Wolverines healing and saying he'd take the same punishment. He tolerates the pain because he has and can, hell if I had a healing factor pain would be my last concern, does that change my will power? Yep, because im going to be a lot less cautious in my actions. Difference being Wolverine doesn't need his will to heal.

Kyle got his ring and was a whiney, emo, artist. His ring allowed his will power to make him eventually reach near omnipotence. You don't get the ring and reach the levels you have to have the will to do so, which like I already said would take a lot more than coming back from a skeleton or having the will to not die.

Utilizing his will power yes, but the power that the ring can put out is based completely on the bearers will power, kyle surpassed parallax because of his will. No will, no power from the ring.

Accel
You do realize that that same logic can turned around, right? If you had the most powerful weapon on the universe on your finger and you knew a big bang was about to explode, don't you think you'd be able to summon the willpower to contain it?

And Wolverine tolerating intense pain is indicative of willpower. Even if you know you will heal quickly form a serious injury, can you honestly say you'd be able to tolerate the pain of say, having all your skin burned off? Taking punches from a Class 100 character and getting back up?

Kyle achieved omnipotence because he took in the full power of the Green Lanterns and became Ion. The fact is, he didn't use pure willpower to achieve that level. Regardless of Kyle's power, we're comparing his will to Wolverine's will, not his ring to Wolverine's will. You can't say that Kyle's willpower = Kyle's willpower + power ring.

Jax_Jax
but the thing is... in oreder for the ring to achieve this great power, (such as holding in a great bang), its wielder must have enough will powerto do so. if I picked up the most powerfull ring in the universe, i wouldnt be able to do it, because will power is the rings power. its not like the ring was able to achieve this, the willpower gave the ring the power to do it.

kyles will power is greater than wolverines. wolverine cant hold a blast capable of destroying the entire universe.

bigbran
Originally posted by Accel
Even if you know you will heal quickly form a serious injury, can you honestly say you'd be able to tolerate the pain of say, having all your skin burned off?
Is this a rhetorical question... shifty

Also, give me way more duribility, a super healing factor, a bigger pain threshold, virtual immortality, an adamantium skeleton, and I could probably do it...

I mean, if the fire couldn't kill me, then I could withstand it...

Rewmac
Every power has it's limits. Even willpower/imagination has it's limit like every other power. Hal stated on the other hand that Kyle's imagination is/will is quite unmatched. Although Hal's will is greater. Wolverine knows he will heal, he knows he has adamantium.
But Kyle don't. He has a power ring which is a powerful weapon but although having it's limits. My meaning is when your only weapon/superpower is based on willpower you will have a great will. Wolverine cannot stop isn't only because he got such a great will. He has healing factor which gives 4% discount off from the will coz he heals from every single damage almost immediately.

Accel
Knowing you will heal isn't quite the same as being able to take intense pain without so much as an "ouch." The ability to withstand pain doesn't come with the healing factor; that's just something a person who's used to pain develops over his lifetime.

The fact is, we all know the power ring is much much more powerful and can do almost any thing. With that knowledge alone, can no one here truly say that if they had possession of one, they wouldn't be able to work up the willpower to do universal things with it after some practice?

Jax_Jax
you wouldnt. thats why the ring selects its wielder.

the ring selects those of wich are pure, honest, and have great amounts of willpower. wolverine wouldnt have the willpower to compare to any GL in the corps. now to be here and argue that it is greater than kyle's?? come on now.

Accel
Kyle wasn't really chosen like other GLs in the first place. He was just at the right place at the right time to receive the ring.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Accel
Kyle wasn't really chosen like other GLs in the first place. He was just at the right place at the right time to receive the ring.

...and from then on proved to be one of the greatest Gl's ever.

Accel
After he had experience with the ring. The fact is, he didn't simply start out with the willpower of Hal Jordan and other lanterns.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Accel
After he had experience with the ring. The fact is, he didn't simply start out with the willpower of Hal Jordan and other lanterns.

because he lacked any training,i doubt that had a random person beside him gotten the ring they would have been half as effective.Hell when he was relatively newbish he overcame Maggedon a being who dominated planetfulls of Darkseid level beings.

Accel
So in other words, you can't gauge how much willpower a GL has based on how well they utilize their ring, especially if rookie GL can be that effective with the ring.

Which means that you still can't can't properly compare the willpower pf Kyle (minus the ring) vs Wolverine (minus the mutant traits).

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Accel
So in other words, you can't gauge how much willpower a GL has based on how well they utilize their ring, especially if rookie GL can be that effective with the ring.

Which means that you still can't can't properly compare the willpower pf Kyle (minus the ring) vs Wolverine (minus the mutant traits).

Yes you can.....Hal had incredible Will and he was considered one of the best Gl's.Gl's are all about the Will and if a Rookie could do that well it shows that he must have an exceptional Will...No random Gl could have done that.

Juntai
Originally posted by Accel
So in other words, you can't gauge how much willpower a GL has based on how well they utilize their ring, especially if rookie GL can be that effective with the ring.

Which means that you still can't can't properly compare the willpower pf Kyle (minus the ring) vs Wolverine (minus the mutant traits). Read Rebirth. Non GL's can make simple constructs with vast will, but pass out from exhaustion afterwards.
Ollie asked Kyle if that's how it feels for him.
He said "Every time".
And slings a ring like childs play.

Juntai
Originally posted by Accel
Kyle wasn't really chosen like other GLs in the first place. He was just at the right place at the right time to receive the ring. Thats what he believed anyways.
Ganthet knew what he was doing.
He was told to pass the torch.
He passed the torch to he is now known as the torchbearer.

Validus
Oi! It was later revealed (thats retconned for you new folks) that Kyle wasn't a totally random choice.

Juntai
Originally posted by Validus
Oi! It was later revealed (thats retconned for you new folks) that Kyle wasn't a totally random choice. Happy Dance
Thnx for the backup bro.

Ize19
Originally posted by Juntai
Read Rebirth. Non GL's can make simple constructs with vast will, but pass out from exhaustion afterwards.
Ollie asked Kyle if that's how it feels for him.
He said "Every time".
And slings a ring like childs play.

Lol, that reminds me of something that happened with Rogue. In Uncanny X-men #388, Rogue is suffering from a great pain of which she says she has "never felt the like." That pain just happens to be sprouting Wolverine's claws. When she asks him if it's the same for him, he acknowledges that it is. And we know how often he pops those claws!

Rewmac
Kyle wasn't a random choice. He was choosen the have the ring and become a Green Lantern. Kyle had more willpower at the age of 6 then Wolverine is had at his top form.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Rewmac
Kyle had more willpower at the age of 6 then Wolverine is had at his top form.

give me a friggin break!

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by masterbruce
give me a friggin break!

He's exaggerating.

But still to use everyone of his powers Kyle has to focus his will. After long time doing that he's gonna get pretty good at it.

Jyppe
Originally posted by Ize19
Lol, that reminds me of something that happened with Rogue. In Uncanny X-men #388, Rogue is suffering from a great pain of which she says she has "never felt the like." That pain just happens to be sprouting Wolverine's claws. When she asks him if it's the same for him, he acknowledges that it is. And we know how often he pops those claws!

I have a comic where powerless Wolverine doesn't want ot spurr out his claws. He says that he will bleed to death unless he blacks out because of the pain first. smile

Guess the healing factor does do a lot for him, eh?

jinzin
and yet... he HAS spurt his claws out.. without his HF.. quite a few times... and remained perfectly concious....



while fighting omega red and lady deathstrike even.. no expression

Rewmac
How that comes to willpower??

Rewmac
You are so clever you Jinzin...

Ize19
Originally posted by Jyppe
I have a comic where powerless Wolverine doesn't want ot spurr out his claws. He says that he will bleed to death unless he blacks out because of the pain first. smile

Guess the healing factor does do a lot for him, eh?

Mind naming the comic he said that in? I just want to confirm when it happened, that's all. I'll admit I think I've read that before, so I'm not calling you a liar, just like to read it again, that's all.

Jyppe
Originally posted by Ize19
Mind naming the comic he said that in? I just want to confirm when it happened, that's all. I'll admit I think I've read that before, so I'm not calling you a liar, just like to read it again, that's all.

Better yet, I'll scan it for ya. He does spurr the claws out and fights, but I only stated what he said smile

One sec

Jyppe
Here: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Wolverine149.jpg

capt it up
Originally posted by Jyppe
Here: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Wolverine149.jpg
and yet he fights the whole time perfectly fine and even at one point is fighting all the robots him self

riceroost
Originally posted by Jyppe
I have a comic where powerless Wolverine doesn't want ot spurr out his claws. He says that he will bleed to death unless he blacks out because of the pain first. smile

Guess the healing factor does do a lot for him, eh? Yeah and I have a comic where a powerless Wolverine who is nearly dead from long term adamantium poisoning takes on Mr. Sinister 1 on 1. I have another comic where a powerless Wolverine takes on Sabretooth/Deathstrike/Omega Red solo. All 3 of whom are easily a match for him with powers. I have comics where Wolverine's willpower pretty much supercharges his healing factor which as stated it's not supposed to be able to do.

I wipe my ass with your low end example.

None of you naysayers are giving Wolverine's willpower the credit it deserves. The guy fights every second of every day not to be reduced to a mindless psychotic killer animal. He fights that urge all the time. It is there with him every waking moment. Kyle doesn't have to deal with something like that, neither does that tard Hal. Wolverine's willpower is easily one of the strongest in comics. Anyone who says different is simply ignorant. Which concerning this forum comes as no suprise.

leonidas
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine's willpower is easily one of the strongest in comics. Anyone who says different is simply ignorant. Which concerning this forum comes as no suprise.

i agree. stronger than kyle . . .? not sure. close enough to be a debateable issue? i'd definitely say yes.

UniOmni
Originally posted by Validus
Oi! It was later revealed (thats retconned for you new folks) that Kyle wasn't a totally random choice.


Vally!! sad

I'm like, so happy you're still alive man!

With you gone, and Jun and Avy not posting as much, its hard to have good debates.
Bran and Soleran and Soljer and others are fine, but its not the same man....ITS NOT THE SAME!!


sick

At my homotional ass.

manorastroman
considering wolverine essentially wills himself back from the dead, i'd say he might have the edge.

Soleran
Originally posted by UniOmni
Vally!! sad

I'm like, so happy you're still alive man!

With you gone, and Jun and Avy not posting as much, its hard to have good debates.
Bran and Soleran and Soljer and others are fine, but its not the same man....ITS NOT THE SAME!!


sick

At my homotional ass.


OMG!

Stop now man, stop!

UniOmni
Yeah, that was really ghey of me......































































Titties!!
























Titties!!!
































TITTIES!!

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by riceroost
The guy fights every second of every day not to be reduced to a mindless psychotic killer animal. He fights that urge all the time. It is there with him every waking moment.
It sounds like someone just added that one day thinking it'd make Wolverine sound more badass instead of a more terrible character.



If there were more GL fans on this board I'd say that was a stupid thing to say.

riceroost
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
If there were more GL fans on this board I'd say that was a stupid thing to say. It's the truth. If you stood Hal next to Wolverine and measured the amount of $hit they've had to endure Wolverine's willpower and fortitude to keep fighting would vastly overshadow Hal Jordan. Wolverine's with a power ring would gutterstomp Hal Jordan.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by riceroost
It's the truth. If you stood Hal next to Wolverine and measured the amount of $hit they've had to endure Wolverine's willpower and fortitude to keep fighting would vastly overshadow Hal Jordan. Wolverine's with a power ring would gutterstomp Hal Jordan.

will needed power to hold back a supernova > than the will power needed to have a sh!ty life

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by riceroost
It's the truth. If you stood Hal next to Wolverine and measured the amount of $hit they've had to endure Wolverine's willpower and fortitude to keep fighting would vastly overshadow Hal Jordan. Wolverine's with a power ring would gutterstomp Hal Jordan.
That is the biggest bullshit I have heard in awhile.

capt it up
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
will needed power to hold back a supernova > than the will power needed to have a sh!ty life
not true. Wolverine every wakign moment is a testiment of will. He holds the beats in check due to will. The beast it self in a prosona of will which as been able to over come TP TK and number of times and has never been beaten. He has been stated numerous times as being able to keep fighting and be alive through will alone, becuase his own budy had failed him.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Rewmac
Or KMC Upgrades...People are doing some major Wolverine fanatism around here...But I haven't seen anything like this before.... lol

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It sounds like someone just added that one day thinking it'd make Wolverine sound more badass instead of a more terrible character.


That "someone" was Claremount and that "one day" was Uncanny X-men 96... confused

and If Wolverine was a DC character, Hal would still be a test pilot now.

leonidas
problem is simple -- the entire existence of a gl is BASED on willpower. willpower is constantly mentioned, any feat they do willpower is exemplified.

because it is so showcased, it seemingly makes it very difficult to compare willpowers of other characters to willpowers of gl's. gl's have a tool to manifest willpower and make it clear how much willpower is being wielded.

wolverine -- or any other character -- HAS no such tool. does NOT being a gl automatically imply that someone's willpower<gl? what about deathstroke?

i'm not prepared to say wolverine's will>kyle's. i AM saying logan does not have the tool necessary to DEMONSTRATE the strength of his will as kyle does, thus making it almost impossible to 'prove' logan's will is equal to kyle's or ANY gl. does this mean ALL gl's willpower>logan's . . .?

that said, i DO think this is closer than many seem to.

Soujaboy
Originally posted by leonidas
problem is simple -- the entire existence of a gl is BASED on willpower. willpower is constantly mentioned, any feat they do willpower is exemplified.

because it is so showcased, it seemingly makes it very difficult to compare willpowers of other characters to willpowers of gl's. gl's have a tool to manifest willpower and make it clear how much willpower is being wielded.

wolverine -- or any other character -- HAS no such tool. does NOT being a gl automatically imply that someone's willpower<gl? what about deathstroke?

i'm not prepared to say wolverine's will>kyle's. i AM saying logan does not have the tool necessary to DEMONSTRATE the strength of his will as kyle does, thus making it almost impossible to 'prove' logan's will is equal to kyle's or ANY gl. does this mean ALL gl's willpower>logan's . . .?

that said, i DO think this is closer than many seem to.

thumb up

Look at Wolverines history. In all his days he has been placed in fights that he has no business winning, or even being matched up in, yet he sticks in there and does the unthinkable.

If Wolverine were given a GL ring, he could possibly be one of the most powerful of the bunch.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by leonidas
problem is simple -- the entire existence of a gl is BASED on willpower. willpower is constantly mentioned, any feat they do willpower is exemplified.

because it is so showcased, it seemingly makes it very difficult to compare willpowers of other characters to willpowers of gl's. gl's have a tool to manifest willpower and make it clear how much willpower is being wielded.

wolverine -- or any other character -- HAS no such tool. does NOT being a gl automatically imply that someone's willpower<gl? what about deathstroke?

i'm not prepared to say wolverine's will>kyle's. i AM saying logan does not have the tool necessary to DEMONSTRATE the strength of his will as kyle does, thus making it almost impossible to 'prove' logan's will is equal to kyle's or ANY gl. does this mean ALL gl's willpower>logan's . . .?

that said, i DO think this is closer than many seem to. I think alot of it has to do with what they usually fight for. Seflessness and all of that. GL's would sacrifice and have fought with the protection of worlds in mind, Wolverine is more of an antihero and while he has done good is usually more geared towards getting the job done.

Accel
Leo's stance is pretty much what I've been saying this whole time.

Only difference is, when he says it, almost no one argues against it.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Accel
Leo's stance is pretty much what I've been saying this whole time.

Only difference is, when he says it, almost no one argues against it. Because he has the Denny Crane aura.

Thing is I'm sure Wolverine would be a very good GL, if he was chosen. But I'm unconvinced he'd be the best which is basically what he's up against.

jinzin
due to the fact that accel's basically said everything I would have, I see no need to reiderate.. that said: I think this a perfect demonstration of why kyle having a lot of power and a powerful weapon, doesn't equate to him having a better will...

:
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine125willpowerod8.jpg

xmarksthespot
What exactly is she trying to do with telekinesis...? erm

jinzin
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What exactly is she trying to do with telekinesis...? erm

hold wolverine back while convincing him that he needs to be on viper's side, to help her/marry her etc.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by jinzin
hold wolverine back while convincing him that he needs to be on viper's side, to help her/marry her etc. You can't overpower telekinesis with "willpower" you need sufficient strength. If that's Jean Grey, she's a first order telekine, who should have no problem holding Wolverine, flinging around the room, and making him dance like a monkey, with his few tons strength regardless of "willpower." erm

jinzin
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You can't overpower telekinesis with "willpower" you need sufficient strength. If that's Jean Grey, she's a first order telekine, who should have no problem holding Wolverine, flinging around the room, and making him dance like a monkey, with his few tons strength regardless of "willpower." erm

oh lol, no the willpower comment is made (I think) in regards to the phenoix not being able to control wolverine mentally.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That "someone" was Claremount and that "one day" was Uncanny X-men 96... confused
So let me get this straight. His berserker rage makes him smarter in combat. His healing factor is magical and infinite. And he's barely holding back this bestial personality but functions as normally as a comic book character can. If this primal force or whatever is so overwhelming, why does he have all this "excess will" laying around to resist telepathy and stuff? If he can barely hold this thing back he should be easy to topple over and if he has a bunch of "excess will", it isn't nearly as bad as people are claiming it is.



Wolverine would of healed Abin Sur? If you're implying what sounds like a psychopathic, very borderline schizophrenic murderer would be a just an awesome candidate for a GL ring I'm going to respectfully disagree.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by jinzin
oh lol, no the willpower comment is made (I think) in regards to the phenoix not being able to control wolverine mentally. http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/485/xmenv208721rougheruu8.jpg

erm

Just one of many.

Run from the moose. 131

jinzin
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/485/xmenv208721rougheruu8.jpg

erm

Just one of many.

not sure if that's an adequate example.. can't xavier make you simply sease your bodily functions?


in any case I think the scan still stands, in a contest of wills wolverine's overmatched that of the pheonix.

I'd venture to say that wolveirne has more will power than xavier as well, xavier handle looking into the mind of kierrok, but demon's like ogun don't want any part of living in logan's mind, ogun couldn't even comprehend how logan could stand to live with his mental pains..

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by jinzin
not sure if that's an adequate example.. can't xavier make you simply sease your bodily functions?I edited. 313
Originally posted by jinzin
in any case I think the scan still stands, in a contest of wills wolverine's overmatched that of the pheonix.

I'd venture to say that wolveirne has more will power than xavier as well, xavier handle looking into the mind of kierrok, but demon's like ogun don't want any part of living in logan's mind, ogun couldn't even comprehend how logan could stand to live with his mental pains.. I've always found Jean Grey weak willed and boring. But that's just me. happy I'm quite certain that will incur the wrath of the various Phoenix fans.

jinzin
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I edited. 313
I've always found Jean Grey weak willed and boring. But that's just me. happy I'm quite certain that will incur the wrath of the various Phoenix fans.

I KILL YOU mad

j/k

Jyppe
Originally posted by capt it up
and yet he fights the whole time perfectly fine and even at one point is fighting all the robots him self

Don't shoot the messenger. I just stated what Wolverine said. Isn't that like religion for you? stick out tongue

Besides, I posted the scan as a small joke in the first place smile

Originally posted by riceroost
Yeah and I have a comic where a powerless Wolverine who is nearly dead from long term adamantium poisoning takes on Mr. Sinister 1 on 1.

I wipe my ass with your low end example.



First of all, Wolverine did have his healing factor in the fight. They state that their powers were coming back. And, where the hell do you see Wolverine take Sinister 1 on 1? He scratches Sinny, and then is blasted a couple of times. Then he's caught in the explosion of the machine.

You might wipe your ass with the showing, but I do consider all showings wether bad, or good. I'm not disputing Wolverine's will power though.

xmarksthespot
laughing out loud Wolverine vs Mr Sinister.

What do you intend to do? Scratch it with your claws?

Validus
Originally posted by UniOmni
Vally!! sad

I'm like, so happy you're still alive man!

With you gone, and Jun and Avy not posting as much, its hard to have good debates.
Bran and Soleran and Soljer and others are fine, but its not the same man....ITS NOT THE SAME!!


sick

At my homotional ass.
laughing out loud

I was ready to label you as teh ghey but the titties post redeemed you.

For the record, my stance is the same as X.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Thing is I'm sure Wolverine would be a very good GL, if he was chosen. But I'm unconvinced he'd be the best which is basically what he's up against.

jinzin
Originally posted by Jyppe
Don't shoot the messenger. I just stated what Wolverine said. Isn't that like religion for you? stick out tongue

Besides, I posted the scan as a small joke in the first place smile



First of all, Wolverine did have his healing factor in the fight. They state that their powers were coming back. And, where the hell do you see Wolverine take Sinister 1 on 1? He scratches Sinny, and then is blasted a couple of times. Then he's caught in the explosion of the machine.

You might wipe your ass with the showing, but I do consider all showings wether bad, or good. I'm not disputing Wolverine's will power though.

wait, you consider all feats?

ou mean like you did in our deathverine debate?

roll eyes (sarcastic)


guess you only consider the feats when they're convenient.

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