God and Time

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Regret
I have read some argue that God is outside the bounds of time. These have led to some conclusions on my part as to the idea of God and time.

God, deity cannot be outside the bounds of time.


Why?

God interacts with mortals and entities within the bounds of time. He presents timetable statements to man.

God acts within the bounds of time.

If one acts within the bounds of time at any point, then something comes before something else for the individual. If an event occurs, and is followed by any other event, everything implicated in that event has existed at two separate points of time.

Mortals existing and God interacting with mortals shows that God is bound by time. The only means for God to not be within the bounds of time is if everything in existence is eternal and unchanging. This is not the case.

God exists within the bounds of time.

Anything that interacts with anything that is altered or changes is within the bounds of time. There is no method by which man would ever contact or be contacted by anything outside the bounds of time.

To be outside the bounds of time is to be sterile, immobile and defunct.

Shakyamunison

Atlantis001
This question is not something new. In the ancient philosophies of hinduism(and all that descended from it) they investigated questions like this for a long time and they have their answers. An example is :

Dharmakaya --> level of God beyond time and space, in this level there is no interaction between the divine and the mortal world

Shambogakaya --> A more tangible level that allows some sort of interaction.

Nirmanakaya --> The more tangible level in which the divine can be manifested and incarnated to interact directly with the manifested world. The level at which Jesus worked.


All these questions about God were already worked out in the ancient philosophies. That sort of knowledge is kinda out of reach today perhaps. But for people that are interested in answers to questions like this, that is the place to search.

Regret

Lord Urizen
I agree with you Regret, but if God is bound my time, then he is not truly omnipotent. He may or may not be the most powerful being in existance, but being bound by time would mean he is limitted.




Thus my beleif that a truly omnipotent being cannot exist. If your God exists, then he struggles like we do.

Regret
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I agree with you Regret, but if God is bound my time, then he is not truly omnipotent. He may or may not be the most powerful being in existance, but being bound by time would mean he is limitted.

Thus my beleif that a truly omnipotent being cannot exist. If your God exists, then he struggles like we do. Omnipotent refers to existence. The past is the past, there is nothing existent of the past. You can't impact something that does not exist.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
wink Exactly. Time is only state following state, if two states occur that is time. Existence demands the concept, the concept is only the difference between relative states when compared to one another.

Although, time dilation is only relative experience and impact of time, not relative time.

I'm sorry to disagree, but there is no moment or "state". All there is, is now, and now always changes. However, "now" never changes. "Now" is eternal. That may sound like a paradox, but paradoxes are allowed.

My friend, God is the now.

Alliance
Side comment:

Throught history, God is continually integrated more and more into the fabric of our human world. This makes him more and more human, and easier for people to relate too.

However, this presents a catch 22. If god becomes more an dmroe integrated into our physical universe, he becomes easier to destroy, more imperfect (human), affected by the same things tha affect us. If he remains outside, people can't relate, and god fades away as a mere etherial presence.

Either way, god dies.

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
Side comment:

Throught history, God is continually integrated more and more into the fabric of our human world. This makes him more and more human, and easier for people to relate too.

However, this presents a catch 22. If god becomes more an dmroe integrated into our physical universe, he becomes easier to destroy, more imperfect (human), affected by the same things tha affect us. If he remains outside, people can't relate, and god fades away as a mere etherial presence.

Either way, god dies. I believe existing as God is probably a precarious balance that is handled easily due to the perfect nature of being God. If God were to be outside the things that effect us how would His existence hold relevance to man? Only by the fact that God is in a state where items that impact us also impact Him is God relevant to man.

Alliance
But, does that destroy his godliness?

Atlantis001

Mindship
God subsumes Time.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Regret
Omnipotent refers to existence. The past is the past, there is nothing existent of the past. You can't impact something that does not exist.


How does that counter my point in anyway what so ever ?



If God is bound by time, as you say, then he/she is limitted. End of story.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Regret
God interacts with mortals and entities within the bounds of time. How? confused

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
God subsumes Time.

Definitions of Subsume on the Web:

The incorporation of an idea, concept, or skill in a more complex framework (eg using parts of speech to learn the structure of sentences and to master sentence fluency).

contain or include; "This new system subsumes the old one"

consider (an instance of something) as part of a general rule or principle

Good word! I had to look it up so I figured other might have missed it so here is the definition.

Evil Dead
"time" as we humans know it is simply a coordinate on the fabric of space preventing seperate specimens of matter from co-occupying the three known physical dimensions.

Time is also relative to the perception of individuals who are experiencing space differently.

any way it goes..........time is dirctly inter-woven with the fabric of space. If one claims god created the universe and was around before space was created, he would not be bound by it.....nor the "time" inter-woven into it.

Robtard
Originally posted by Alliance
Side comment:

Throught history, God is continually integrated more and more into the fabric of our human world. This makes him more and more human, and easier for people to relate too.

However, this presents a catch 22. If god becomes more an dmroe integrated into our physical universe, he becomes easier to destroy, more imperfect (human), affected by the same things tha affect us. If he remains outside, people can't relate, and god fades away as a mere etherial presence.

Either way, god dies.

Fredrick Nietzsche?

Mindship
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Good word!
I think it was once the secret word on, "Pee Wee's Playhouse." wink

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
I think it was once the secret word on, "Pee Wee's Playhouse." wink

Pee Wee's Playhouse! eek! I've seen that show.

I had to stop watching that show, because I couldn't tell rather I was having a flash back or not. laughing

Slyððering
I've always felt that "Time" was a manmade factor, so I'm not entirely sure if it has any relation whatsoever to "God."

Robtard
Another Judeo-Christian concept, only God knows the exact time of the Apocalypse/End-Times/Armageddon etc and what will ultimately happen; It would stand to reason that God is not limited to the confines of time as God existed before time itself... and as Lord Urizen pointed out, if God is restricted to anything, than God is not omnipotent.

As it stands, I do not see how you can reconcile a limited God (even by time itsef) and the omnipotent God of the Bible.

Lord Urizen
If God is truly an unchanging God (like the Bible claims he is) then he is not bound my time.


However, if God interacts with human beings who ARE subject to time, and if God possesses "patience" (like the Bible claims), then he IS bound by time.



Ay Carajo, another fkn contradiction !!!

Lord Rock
Another proof God doesnt exist. I mean... Believers says that time was created by God as an excuse, but what created God, then? The lie we know as religion just makes cosmic debate even MORE confusing

lord xyz
It seems my question is the only one that has been ignored. Yet, it is the most basic one.

Originally posted by lord xyz
How? confused

_________________
Originally posted by Alliance
Side comment:

Throught history, God is continually integrated more and more into the fabric of our human world. This makes him more and more human, and easier for people to relate too.

However, this presents a catch 22. If god becomes more an dmroe integrated into our physical universe, he becomes easier to destroy, more imperfect (human), affected by the same things tha affect us. If he remains outside, people can't relate, and god fades away as a mere etherial presence.

Either way, god dies. Yes, but in the former way, God dies because of a power higher than God, and this therefore creates a chain of Gods which has gotten us nowhere credible.

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