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Well, it's finally here. This is the climactic match up that everyone's been waiting for. This is as good as it gets right here. Four forum vets duking it out to see who's gonna be the tournament kings. This will solidify any of their legendary KMC careers. So sit back, relax, and enjoy....

BATDUDE'S TOURNEY FINAL!!!!!

Introducing first:

DarkCrawler/Blair Wind

*audience cheers*

And their characters for this match:

Black Alice (The magic queen of the tourney)
All-Star Superman (Nuff said)
The Keeper (Power mad Norrin Radd... that rhymes!!!)

Now introducing second:

DigiMark007/Scoobless

*audience cheers even louder* ()

And their characters for this match of the century are:

Thor (the beastial god of thunder... with awesome golden locks)
Space Phantom (um.... ???... he steals powers... and his name is cool?)
Adam Warlock (telepathic monster.... who wears short-shorts )

Now, the rules for this match can be viewed at this link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/430696_1-batdudes-tourney-discussion-thread

Each team will get a total of twenty minutes to prepare a battle strategy for the fight at hand. This match takes place on Apokalips with Darkseid as the overseer. When any characters gets killed, or knocked out, Darkseid will OE their ass to another spot in the universe, so there's no chance of revitalization here. Once you're out... you're OUT. The teams will be 1 kilometer away from each other (.62 miles).

LET THE BATTLE COMMENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The judges for this tourney match are:

jinzin
leonidas
srankmissingnin
Black Adam (maybe)
Soljer (maybe)

DarkCrawler and Blair Wind's opening statements:

(Note: This prep post will be cut up into five segments. It is well over the 10,000 character limit, so 1 of BW's 10 total posts will be cut to 9 posts.)

Continued...

Continued...

Continued...

And finally:

Alright, Newjak is replacing Black Adam as a judge for this match.

Unofficial Post:

For the sake of those who might be judging for the first time, since the links weren't posted:

Digi: Adam Warlock
Scoob: Space Phantom
Both: Thor


....mainly for the SP bio, so that they can understand his powers if they don't already.

i can't see most of those freeimagehosting scans.

Hmmm good match







Lubricationteehee

DigiMark Post #3

Characters: Warlock / Thor

...

Part I. General Points

A. Just to clarify, that scan Scoob posted of Strange with the Uni-Power happened pre-Infinity Gauntlet, when they had their soul-link. So Warlock does have knowledge of it. Moving on...

B. Thor is throwing the hammer in a pre-emptive strike as soon as the fight starts. The Uni-Power-enhanced reflexes/strength will ensure that this happens before their team can do anything. By the time they notice that Black Alice's enhancements are gone, we'll have detected them and will be destroying them before they can even think about locating Mjolnir to teleport.

They post a scan of someone porting Mjolnir when it's directly in front of himself and expect us to believe that they'll locate Mjolnir as it's flying around the battefield at light speed, far away from them, and we're fighting them?!?! Utterly ridiculous.

C. SP has become inanimate objects before...I'll leave it to Scoob, since it's his character, but it's not an issue. Uni-Power is sentient anyway, so it really shouldn't matter.

Besides, they're equating the Uni-Power with pure energy or something. Kinda weird. SP doesn't become "power cosmic" when he becomes Surfer, just like he doesn't become the Enigma Force when changing to the Uni-Power. The base source doesn't = the product.

D. They used a Surfer feat to explain their microverse strategy. We have the power of 25 of him in both of us. We also have microscopic vision via Surfer's powers, which enables us to locate them. That nonsense with the microverse is clever, but it won't be doing a damn thing to our team. We find them, we stomp them. Simple as that.

E. So, Keeper can analyze his own DNA completely, create the materials needed to create a Superman formula (that Supes didn't even make himself) and calculate the exact modifications needed for the formula to accomodate his and BA's particular DNA structure???

In 10 seconds?

Or even 20 minutes?



...

Part II. New Tactics

We didn't want to use up all of our ingenuity in our writeup, so we've been saving these.

1. Backstory: The magic-block works...we've shown that. Their teleport trick is complete bull. It's cutting off their magic well before they do anything in the battle.
Strategy: After we've cut their magic off and dealt with Black Alice (which won't be hard...take away her magic, and even if you believe the AS Supes formula stuff, she'll be roadkill in minutes) we do the following to AS Supes:
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerpincg3.jpg
...and we let Odin's enchantments take care of the rest. He can't lift Mjolnir. No one can besides Thor (and select others, not including anyone on their team).

He's a sitting duck, and unable to move. By this point, BA will be gone anyway, as will any magical upgrade Supes has, so this just adds insult to injury.

2. Omni-Directional Lightning Blast. Nuf Said.
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energy1ps0.jpg
...so Superman, any version, is a being based off of solar charge. The same solar charge that gets drained of its charge when struck with lightning.

Physics 101. Thor's base powers (whether control / lightning) can attack the weakness of at least AS Supes, and possibly all 3 (again, if you believe the forumla junk).

....

Part III. Adam Returns

First off:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8086/warlockbadsc5.th.jpg

Warlock's pissed. Why? Because he's been getting ignored. "Thor can/can't do this. SP can/can't do that..." Blah blah blah. Warlock can take anyone on their team, probably any two. Such a force shouldn't be getting ignored.

1. They've been playing up their "invisible" strategy (which is anything but...I actually liked Scoob's Superman/lead analogy). But they're forgetting who has the truer undetectability. He's beyond reality....and I've posted the scans to prove that, with abstracts echoing my very words.

He won't be detected until he decides to strike. And when he does, there's going to be one Good-Lord of an ass-whupping.

He's got the power of 25 Surfers in him. And with their magic gone, and their Superman formula dubious (at best) he could probably take anyone on their team even at his base level. So this is just a curbstomp of the highest order.

Best fighting skills in the fight:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5048/skills11kq3.th.jpg http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5065/skills12yh2.th.jpg http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4350/skills13mx6.th.jpg

...all those people there were physically superior to Warlock. He beat them with cunning and skill....just like he'll dissect BW/DC's Trio.

If you've seen the tourney at all or know about his character, you know he's fit for the tourney. He can best characters like Surfer, Quasar and Drax in single combat. Amusingly, BW/DC showed a Warlock-vs-Quasar fight earlier to their benefit...but if they had posted it all, they would have seen Quasar losing.

And again, that's at base level. What we're talking about with our upgrades is so far removed from that, much of this isn't even needed.

He's undetectable, he's the most skilled in the tourney, he's the smartest in the tourney, and now he's pissed.

...

Part IV. Closing

Hopefully that should clear everything up. DC/BW have done an admirable job calling us to task on our strategy, but it's all legit, and we don't require something that took days (the forumla) to pull it off

Hell, I could make a case for us winning at purely base levels. Our power meshes just make this a non-fight....they're done, plain and simple.

Blair Wind Post #4

Well well, seems that we have some confusion as to what is taking place and what is not taking place. Lets try and clear some of that up now shall we?

Our Stealth

As DC has just said, we are totally covered. Only Warlock on the opposing team can say the same. We were hidden in atoms, how would you find us? Do you realize how much space you would have to look through before we just do our initial attack to your obvious and oblivious Thunder God?

Moving on to the fact that Thor is just standing around doing nothing, we can all agree that our boards made their way to his head. The TP/TK attack hurt. AND we teleported the hammer that they need as a crutch in this match. Which leads us to the hammer topic

Hammer and Black Alice

That same hammer that will what, spin around the whole entire planet of Apokalips? When Thor only had it spin around a few buildings in the fight with Juggs? Besides, why would your three members take the Uncalculating risk of throwing their most powerful weapon away just IN CASE some of our member's are magical? Most blatant abuse of pre-battle knowledge ever.

New Tactics?
Now, you guys are not the only one's with other ideas for the way things can go. Teleporting the hammer is a much easier thing to do, but if push comes to shove? Black Alice can take control of the hammer. Wow. A bold statement, I know what you are thinking. However let us put this in perspective:
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=racerxhofba01p10xq4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=racerxhofba01p11fj1.jpg

http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=racerxhofba01p22eh4.jpg
http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=racerxhofba01p23cg1.jpg

Black Alice took control of the Helmet of Fate, stemming from the power of Nabu, the most powerful Lord of Order in the 9th magical age, (akin to Thor's Hammer, coming from the power of Odin). What was the most impressive part? The Helmet resisted, and she still took control over it. AND IT WAS WITH HER OWN MAGICAL POWERS. Not someone's stolen power. Her own! The only reason she gave it up is because it started doing all the things she wanted, and she then realized she did not really want that to happen.

She really does have more magical powers then just stealing powers. She can make extremely high powered magical artifacts do her bidding and give her dominion.

And if you REALLY want to push us towards it, we can simply have Black Alice turn into Dargo again. Why? Because Dargo actually uses 616 Mjolnir. What does that mean? Your weapon is suddenly ours. Don't like it when your own tactics bite you in the ass do you? In all honesty I should have done this from the beginning, but I thought that lassoing Space Phantom was more important. Which means that right after we teleport it far away, lasso up Thor (under the very ill assumption that SP is IN him), and depower them both, killing SP (all in all should take 20 seconds tops with our combined speed and teleporting ability) Black Alice can take the form of Dargo again taking away your mighty hammer. I have not broken any rules, as I cannot turn into your Thor, but it just so happens I can steal your hammer.

We simply have more options than you do in how we take you out. You want variety, there it is. I doubt you can say the same on the type of things you can do.


Established Battle Plan
As it is, we have already established the fact that Superman is teleporting your hammer away from you, before you get a good swing in to send it on its way. Wonder Woman has you lassoed up, and reverted you to your original power levels. No one can argue that this will not happen. Sorry bucko's but we can teleport the hammer. Even if you tried magical lighting to take out our Superman, (which I do not understand...because well: ) We have Uru armour. And that is there because of Keeper's manipulation of the metal itself. It is not dependent on Black Alice. Neither is the Hell metal.

We have the surprise attack advantage. We have you out thought from the very beginning. Which leads us to detection of your prized Warlock (surprise of the day: )

The Soul Link

Now heres comes the most interesting part of the battle. You profess that your Warlock is entirely undetectable, and that no one will know he is there. HOWEVER, seeing as Surfer and Warlock have soul linked, and if AW claims to have all the knowledge of SS from the soul link (enough to try and control SS's boards), doesn't that work BOTH ways?!? Could not Keeper locate even an undetectable AW because Keeper knows "all that is Adam Warlock" because of what SS learned during the link?

Really guys, your just GIVING us the ammo to use against you guys.

Thoughts

Our battle plan has taken precedence due to several contributing factors:

1) We are in the microverse and completely cloaked from detection

2) Their Thor was not cloaked

3) They have yet to defend the fact that the surboards made their way to their brains, ear drums, and other vital organs. Or defend against the onslaught of a massive telepathic and telekinetic attack

4) We have more than one way of taking out the mighty Hammer. Push comes to shove? We have the more powerful Magic User, and she will do whatever it takes to win. With three options available to us to use, we can do more in terms of variety to freshen things up.

5) A gate swings both ways. Just as the knowledge of the almighty Soul Link goes both ways.

6) With all this in play:
the doubtful fact that they have even turned into Uni-Power,
the fact that they are trying to pull a preemptive while we have already found them and teleport the hammer away,
the first strike is ours,
the Magical Lasso depowers your team,
Keeper detects Warlock,
the hammer is taken by our team,
Things have taken a definitive turn for the worse for your team

Final Notes

We simply have more options in play than you do. We have taken control of the fight since the very beginning, and ignoring certain facts will not make that fact go away. Your Thor was not cloaked, and it will cost you. Our whole team was in hiding, and we used that fact to its full potential. You cannot beat the combined power of our team, and the tactical advantages our weapons give us.

In short? We win, you lose, I think its time you give up
Or as someone once said: Hell, I could make a case for us winning at purely base levels. Our power meshes *and superior tactics* just make this a non-fight....they're done, plain and simple.

DigiMark Post #5

This post will be short, but has 2 important parts.

Both are explicitly to make it easier on the judges.

Part I. I will list, briefly and accurately, everything we have shown. Nothing will be speculation. It will be entirely strategies and scans that we have laid forth. The actual scans/strategies are laced throughout our posts....this is just a summary of it.

Part II. Scoob and I have been working on a short "equation" that summarizes the battle. It's worth posting.

...

I.

- Warlock has hidden himself from an IG-wearer. He is undetectable until he strikes.
- We have shown Warlock controlling Surfer's (and thus Keeper's) board while he is conscious. Even if there's a struggle, this hinders them greatly.
- Warlock is easily the most skilled combatant in the fight
- We posess microscopic vision, our own cosmic awareness due to Surfer's power, and will detect them easily.
- Thor's magic-block is a proven technique. Their counter for it, dubious.
- We have shown that the Uni-Power enhances various attributes of a person, not just strength
- We have shown that we are aware of the Uni-Power via Warlock's soul-links with both Strange and now Thor.
- We have adamantium/vibranium armor
- We have shown Thor crushing Uru with his bare hands, the same stuff their armor is made of.
- We have shown that the Uni-Power is < Surfer at its base level
- We have shown SP becoming non-sentient beings (Iron Man's armor, Deathlok, etc.)
- We have shown SP becoming non-humanoid beings (Sandman. He also became a bird once)
- We have shown that it took a large amount of time and work to formulate an AS Superman potion for 1 person's specific DNA structure. They can't do it for Keeper at all, and doubtful for BA in 20 minutes.
- We have also shown that AS Supes' robot did much of the work, and thus they would need to replicate it as well for their plan to work.
- We have shown proof that we can share Surfer's power cosmic, and that the power will stay with our characters until we die or willingly give it up.
- We have shown ample evidence that the Uni-Power amps a person's power x50.
- We have Thor's massive lightning attack, which will drain AS Supes of his solar charge

That should about cover it. Please refer to any of our posts (and particularly Scoob and I's most recent ones) for extrapolation on these.

..

II. The Equation

Keeper at peak = 70% Power Cosmic + AS Superman + 2/3 Captain Marvel + Magical TP/TK

Which is, at max, about 5 times regular Superman strength/durability level (at the most) + some decent energy powers, and mediocre TP + TK

Keeper is the only character they can boost to that level.

Warlock (our weakest) has himself + Firelord + Morg + (Surfer x 25)

:::::::::::

1 Herald boost is around 1 Superman in strength/durability

Any 2 heralds powers combined =/> Keeper

:::::::::::

Keeper = 5 x Superman + less than 2 full heralds worth of energy powers + TP/TK

Warlock = 25 x Superman and 27 heralds worth of energy + his own formidable powers

:::::::::::

That puts our weakest link so far over their strongest link that they aren't even close to the same weight class.

Now let's assume for a moment that our calculations are biased (they aren't, we're actually giving them the benefit of the doubt). Double Keeper's power in that equation. And Halve Warlock's. He's still more powerful.

....at this point, we've backed up everything. It took us a little time with a few things, but nothing should be in doubt. And our power mesh >>>>> theirs. Nuf' said.

Ouch...

Digi Post #6

Originally posted by illadelph12
Ouch...

Hopefully that refers to the pic (which was funny, I'll admit), because the post was anything but...

...

This will once again be short. I'll say everything I have to say, and nothing more.

Part I. General Thoughts.

Part II. Why we win in insanely plain terms.

...

I.

A. DC admitted SP can become non-sentient beings. So that debate is over. We also already posted non-humanoid scans, so we can do exactly what we say.

B. Wtf is an "immortal" anyway. I know Scoob already shot that scan down, but are they really looking for that much speculation to try to bring us down???

C. Our many scans of SP proof >>> their failed attempts to discredit us with unfounded logic and 1 speculative scan.

D. If you're microscopic, how exactly are you teleporting something that's billions of times larger than you (Mjolnir) in the opening miliseconds of the fight??

Magic-block STILL =

E. Loki can only amp people to roughly his level in telepathy, it's not 1000x no matter what. We already proved that. So how are you telepathically shielding yourself when we have Warlock's TP combined with Surfer's, which is much >> Loki's?? Again, you're just boned.

F. Just in case Thor crushing Uru with his bare hands wasn't enough:
http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/162/thor45020bf9.th.jpg http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/9650/thor45021fn2.th.jpg

...wow, is it weak unless you have specific Odin-enchantments (Mjolnir). With our Surfer powers, can can just freeze them and shatter them.

G. Actually their "complete" listing of SP's showings isn't complete. Hell, we posted him becoming different people in our last match (and I think this one too). More worthless speculation based upon incomplete information.



H. DC says that AS Superman created everything needed for the potion. He's right. But that was never our point. The point is, it would take way too long to replicate the lab, robot, and map out DNA for it to even be close to feasible.

....

....

II.

Judges.

I understand.

You're saying to yourself, "Wow, this is some crazy sh*t from both sides. I don't know if it would all work." Believe me, I've been in your position. So let's ignore the craziness for a second.

Here I'm only looking at what our team can do at normal levels. And we still win. Our equation (Digi Post #5) already proved beyond ANY doubt that our power mesh is >>>> theirs. But even if you took that out, here's what you have:

- Thor's magic block, a proven techinque.
- Warlock's complete undetectibility from any known means (until he strikes)
- Thor crushing Uru with his bare hands (the stuff their team is using to protect themselves)
- Thor absorbing vast amounts of energy into Mjolnir, even if it isn't directed right at him.
- Warlock having much more cunning and skill than anyone in the fight.
- Warlock being able to control their boards, via his soul-link with Surfer (Keeper is 616 Surfer, years into the future). Or at the very least hinder them. Notice how they ditched the "We make our boads big inside your head" tactic? Right, because their boards are now a liability.
- Thor's lightning attack, which drains the charge from AS Supes.
- Thor being able to pin any of them with Mjolnir if he so desires, since they can't lift it due to its enchantments.

Again, this is all without our power meshing. We've proved beyond doubt that SP can do what we say he will. But even if you took that out, we still have them.

Those are the facts. BW/DC's strategy is, more and more, based on vague speculation and powers that will be getting blocked as soon as the fight starts.

We can beat them at base levels. And the power mesh, just crazily cool overkill.

Blair Wind Post #5

Originally posted by illadelph12
Ouch...


Ouch is right

So lets recap:

Your SP is a worthless piece of nothing this fight. He cannot turn into Silver Surfer, or any other herald. He cannot transform into the Uni Power, and everything you did with his was non consequential.

Sorry, but the words coming from HIS mouth are more than just one speculative scan Digi. Dude no offense, but you got WTFPWND right there. I mean.....did you even read the scan? Seriously you guys, you are not going much for yourselves when you cannot even read the scans we present to you. Here it is again since you missed it: http://i18.tinypic.com/44ampn6.jpg

Read it this time

Moving on to select points that stuck out at me:

Superman Potion
Does ANYONE believe the BS that we cannot use the Superman potion?? I wonder if one simple superman potion is as hard as resurrecting dinosaurs, and then killing them through bio-molecular control.
http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doompy7.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom1hy2.jpg
You know how much chemical process must be taking place?

Or how about this "little" feat:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosPowUnlim_1996_004_27.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosPowUnlim_1996_004_28.jpg

You cannot HONESTLY believe that Keeper cannot do this. Saving your team from pure horror is noble, but please, your failing at trying to disprove us.

-----------------------

Soul Link
So your saying even though we have ample evidence that Keeper should be able to detect Warlock, given that he knows "ALL that is Warlock", we should disregard it because a writer never extrapolated that point? as Scoobless said, "I've never heard you say the word tomato ... so that means you can't say it" Common guys, you have more sense than that.

We know you, and Surfer will exploit that fact more than you ever could. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. Hell why not just dump Warlock into the Quantum Zone???:
http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar20206iz.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar20215tc.jpg

Face it, our options>>>Yours

-------------------

The teeny tiny expanding boards

Digi says: It means we still have the boards....and have you noticed they dropped that attack??

Uh?? Who dropped that attack? Surfer was knocked out when Warlock took control, and had not taken back control by then. Besides how are you going to control something that basically killed Thor before you even realized it was there?? Please tell me, I am really curious to know the answer, because it will be some mighty fine BS to be able to convince anyone about it.

-----------------------------------

The hammer
Have we not beaten this subject down yet? We teleported it. Thor was out in the open standing around like the thunder idiot he is. We have so many options its not even funny:

Teleport it

Take control of the hammer through Black Alice (Doesn't put her above Odin level, it just happens to be a tactical advantage for her that she can "take over" things. Just like she "takes over" powers)

Take over as Dargo (which btw would be different for this match, as Dargo went back in time. Black Alice would not create a time loop, and as Dargo is from Keeper's time, he will be from his "present" )

Transmute the area around Thor's hand into a solid metal or adhesive so he cannot throw the hammer.

Please get this ridiculous notion that you will even get one swing out of your heads. It is not happening. And even if it did? We still have a million other ways to take it out. We can fly with Superman's powers and hit it off course with the Quantum Bands:
http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar38120vn.jpg
http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar38137pe.jpg

a blow from a mighty hammer does nothing to one of QB's shields:
http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar48135of.jpg

or maybe you need something more like this:
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=masters2.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=masters3.jpg

Again, our options are limitless.

--------------------------------------

The Quantum Bands and Uru

We have been neglecting the glorious energy absorbing/manipulating trinkets that Keeper keeps on his wrists. Now we have already shown Warlock susceptible to energy draining
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar38194cy.jpg

but you want to send magical lightning down on us? When we have Uru amour, hammers, and any other energy you throw at us will be absorbed by the Quantum Bands.

Or, since we wanted to do something bold with our bands, we can easily absorb the energy of a star
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar160332nx.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quasar160343ry.jpg

And then give everyone of our little Parademon friends an energy shield....uh? wait for it.

The Planet?

Now, both have sides have failed to mention something that could very much show that we are going to win even greater than we were before! There are millions of Parademons on Apokolips as well as a lot of futuristic weaponry which we can co-opt for our attack. It doesn't have to be a 3 on 2 (since SP is worth nothing), it can be a 700,000+ on 2! All we have to do is use a telepathic suggestion on the Parademons as we can telepathically feel their presense and have them swarm Thor and Warlock with all their future weaponry. Something like this:
http://spider-bob.com/aliens_races/dc/images/Parademons01.jpg
Against Warlock and Thor. There's no rule against utilizing aspects of the battlefield that I'm aware of, so we made due.

This is not a desperate attack as I KNOW the other team will have you think it is, however this is just ANOTHER tactical advantage to our already winning team.

------------------------------

Tactical Advantages

Sun Tzu says in Art of War,
"Now the general who wins a battle makes many
calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought.
The general who loses a battle makes but few
calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations
lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat:
how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention
to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose."

We simply out thought your team from the beginning and it led to your annihilation. We had the opening strike, which hindered all your assumptions out the window. Thor standing around, (and you did say you would detect our "magical" presences from the beginning, then changed tactics when you thought it might screw you over...), got you killed. Our Surfer's TP/TK with Loki's enhancements hit pretty damn hard, and you never found us. You never even tried looking from the beginning. You were just waiting for us to come to you, and when we did you were unable to properly defend yourselves. So what did you do? You went back and started a different opening, where Thor illogically threw his hammer IN CASE we had magical beings. Blatent Pre battle knowledge abuse.

Clever thinking, a more powerful team, and better strategic use of the battlefield will have us winning this battle.


Base Level?
You want to start comparing base levels and say who is more powerful?

Purely base level on both sides we still>>>>>>>>>>>>>in power

-SP has been proven to be of no use to you
- Keeper's complete knowledge of all that is Warlock.
- Black Alice's ability to take on Dargo thus leaving you without Mjolnir
- Keeper absorbing all kinds of energy thanks to the Quantum Bands.
- Keeper having the most experience of anyone in this tournament
- Superman having the best reaction speeds on both sides.
- Our whole team being faster than yours.
-Power Cosmic>>>>you guys.

Face it. Purely on base levels we pwn you. Power meshing included?? We still pwn you.

Judges

Those are the facts. Digi/Scoob's strategy is, more and more, based on vague speculation and powers that they will never be able to actually channel. Their reaction speeds pale in comparison to ours, and our tactical advantages place us in the lead of this battle. They have no chance for victory. At. ALL.

NON OFFICIAL



That is obviously meant to say that we AREN'T.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
utterly moronic.



Major understatement

Why are only a couple of people posting in this thread? it seems like one of the more imaginative "fights" going on in this forum. Seems like the whole thing is hinged on this Space Phantom person (who I had never even heard of until I read a few of these posts) One guy says he's only ever failed to "abduct" 2 people (how does he even do this in the first place?) the other guys seem to want this not to be true and are posting word balloons where the phantom guy is talking about his abducting problems (Does speech really count as "evidence" in these matches? because it seemed to me like the guy didn't really understand the Thor situation).

This thread seems really long even though the post count is really low.

Originally posted by Bigsmak
Why are only a couple of people posting in this thread? it seems like one of the more imaginative "fights" going on in this forum. Seems like the whole thing is hinged on this Space Phantom person (who I had never even heard of until I read a few of these posts) One guy says he's only ever failed to "abduct" 2 people (how does he even do this in the first place?) the other guys seem to want this not to be true and are posting word balloons where the phantom guy is talking about his abducting problems (Does speech really count as "evidence" in these matches? because it seemed to me like the guy didn't really understand the Thor situation).

This thread seems really long even though the post count is really low.


Because it's a tourney match, and no one but the participants and judges are supposed to post here .

Ok, but shouldn't it say that in the title or something?

Originally posted by Bigsmak
Ok, but shouldn't it say that in the title or something?
"Batdudes Tourney Final"...

Originally posted by Bigsmak
Ok, but shouldn't it say that in the title or something?
Well they announced that it was a tourney match, but I guess batdude didn't think to post an announcement about other posters(he's normally more careful about that sort of thing). Anyway, no one will likely hold it against you(seeing as how your new), so I wouldn't worry about it if I was you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
"Batdudes Tourney Final"...

I must have missed the part where it states "Please don't post unless you're actually in the match"

I'll stop now, but don't use the rolleyes smiley when you clearly have nothing to be smug about, it just makes you seem like a wanker.

Have to keep this short, but as a recap to what is going on to the Judges here this is:

They left Thor standing out in the open. We were cloacked from all attacks.

As soon as the battle began, we had the tiny surfboards expand inside their brains *and they claim they can control something they do not even know we have till it is too late....that makes no sense *, telepathically and telekinetically struck out at them, and then teleported the hammer away while we regrow *or our various other ways of taking out the hammer. Choose one from: Taking control, switching to Dargo, Quantum Bands*

If Warlock knows all that is Surfer, then the same should be true for Surfer knowing all that is Warlock as evidenced by the same scans Digi used for this tournament. He can detect him, and if you are of the line of thinking that it will not take place, then with Warlock taking over the boards, he will detect him.

The boards (with atom slicing spiked) should effectively take Thor out ANYWAYS. Anything else is just speculation that he survives. It is our the first of our FIRST wave of attacks, AND it is not based on magic. So if you believe the magic will be negated, this is a well placed strike against them. Brian matter will be splattered everywhere as they expand, slicing everything.

SP cannot turn into Immortals. Surfer (Keeper) has been living for 500+ years. 616 Surfer is the same. He cannot take his form, or any other form you might want. His powers only work on HUMANS.

Our telepathy is more than JUST Loki's enhanced. Remember that Keeper has massive amounts of it. He can control the Parademons to attack you. It is just another avenue as to which we will win

Our use of Art of War is advantages to us. We out thought you in the writeup. We have cloacked our whole team while you did not. The use of that quote makes me laugh considering that Thor is just standing there doing nothing.

Just remember, that our systematic shut down of their team with first strike attacks, blocking their attacks with counter defenses, and then overwelming them with numbers is superior to their plans.

Ramma lamma lamma ka dingidy ding de dong.
Shoo bop shoo wadda wadda yippidy boom de boom.
Chang chang, changidy chang she bop.
Dip de dip de dip doo wap de dooby doo.
Boogidy boogidy boogidy boogidy shooby be do-wap shoo-wop.
Shanna nanna nanna nanna yippidy dep de doo!

Ramma lamma lamma ka dingidy ding de dong.
Shoo bop shoo wadda wadda yippidy boom de boom.
Chang chang, changidy chang she bop.
Dip de dip de dip doo wap de dooby doo.
Boogidy boogidy boogidy boogidy shooby be do-wap shoo-wop.
Shanna nanna nanna nanna yippidy dep de doo!

A whomp bop a loo-bop a whomp bam boom!



Grease

Oh

TRINITY OF POWER ROCKS

Good luck to both sides, and thanks for a great match.

I found Digi and scoobs together under the fooshball table.


Who knew Digi was that flexible?

Um, fooshball?

Anyway, keep stuff like that to the discussion thread. Let's not spam this up, at least until the judges vote.

.

.....while you can keep the vote I guess, we did grow in size during the first attack....just saying.

Digi/Scoobs: 1

BW/DC: 0

Originally posted by Blair Wind
.....while you can keep the vote I guess, we did grow in size during the first attack....just saying.

Digi/Scoobs: 1

BW/DC: 0 I know you did I just don't see where you guys would get the time to do so.

Either way it was a close match and throughout the week I thought over every outcome. You guys put up one hell of a match I was undecidied even when I was writing up my reply it was until I had to make a conclussion that I declared a winner.


No matter the outcome good job bothsides

Originally posted by Scoobless
Only characters were limited.



I dont care anymore about the match, as we all agreed it was done, but we are telling you Batdude TOLD us, it was only lightspeed. For EVERYTHING. We asked him in the VERY FIRST MATCH. Sorry bucko


ps: Surfer did the hammer.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-10.jpg


Not really, we changed the galactic glaze into the Uru...not ourselves

.....whatever. Now I am just waiting for the judges

Ok guys

Post count
BW: 10

Darkcrawler: 8

Scoobs: 8

Digi: 8


We only have 9 posts a piece right BW went over by one

Therefore basically the match is over guys.

There is nothing else to add adn I'm not even sure half those posts are legal from BW and Scoobs from today.

Oh well guys.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not really, we changed the galactic glaze into the Uru...not ourselves


Then why did DC constantly state that it was your skin that was changed and use that a the reason for us not being allowed to change it back?

We are done dude

Let it go

Ok guys

Post count
BW: 10

Darkcrawler: 8

Scoobs: 9

Digi: 8


We only have 9 posts a piece right BW went over by one then

Therefore basically the match is over guys.

There is nothing else to add adn I'm not even sure half those posts are legal from BW and Scoobs from today.

Oh well guys.
Thats it if the tourny is still open only Digi and Darkcralwer can still post

Originally posted by Blair Wind
We are done dude

Let it go

Wait, wha? I thought Saturday at midnight this was over (EST)?!?! There's about 3-4 posts that happened after that.

But, since there was some from both teams, maybe we can just agree to let it go, and I won't have to edit anything...

...

Also, thanks for the prompt-ness Newjak, and for reading through everything. My similar thanks to the other judges, in advance.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Wait, wha? I thought Saturday at midnight this was over (EST)?!?! There's about 3-4 posts that happened after that.

But, since there was some from both teams, maybe we can just agree to let it go, and I won't have to edit anything... Yeah I don't think they really added anything that wasn't already there so they should be fine.

Well...there is some confisions in the judge post (we aren't atom sized for anything else then the few opening seconds of the match and the hammer can't go over lightspeed so it can't take out our magic buffs in time), but I respect it, so ok. One vote for Digi/Scoobs then.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
the hammer can't go over lightspeed

It can ... and the match is still over.

No it can't. Batdude said that. But you are right, it's over.

And {posts 5 more points}. But's it's over.



...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No it can't. Batdude said that. But you are right, it's over.














































It can.

Can't!!!!

http://images.parenthood.com/baby-cry.jpg

And I don't think we are counting posts anymore.

Jesus folks, do I have to lock the thread?



I'm tempted to get a few words in myself since I'm the only one that has yet to argue after the time limit, but I'm trying to refrain.

So let's just act like civilized adults *coughitcancough* and stop the comments altogether.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Jesus folks, do I have to lock the thread?



I'm tempted to get a few words in myself since I'm the only one that has yet to argue after the time limit, but I'm trying to refrain.

So let's just act like civilized adults *coughitcancough* and stop the comments altogether.

I don't know I'm almost tempted to join in myself

don't get all up in a panic. i'm still pondering. but a relatively important point DOES seem unresolved. batdude, CAN the hammer travel FTL??

bw -- could you post the pm bats sent you that you guys keep quoting?

crikey . . .

mmm, damn...I can try and find it.


Though it was us asking if we could make the surfboards go faster than the speed of light (which has been proven), and he said no. Ill go find it.

...shouldn't really matter, eh? I don't think it exceeded the speed of light in te Juggernaut battle, but it probably didn't say for sure either.

I can't really see 2x speed of light being much different than 1x, for battle purposes, but we should get it cleared up if a judge wants it.

Found it. Damn that search for only one user feature is nice. Anyways here it is:

Where was that posted?

thanks. now back to pondering . . .

i feel like crap and am very tired. i'll likely make my decision today at some point, after i get my shit together enough to read things a little more thoroughly.

It was a PM scoobs

Batdude can confirm it if needed, I am sure.

Originally posted by leonidas
thanks. now back to pondering . . .

i feel like crap and am very tired. i'll likely make my decision today at some point, after i get my shit together enough to read things a little more thoroughly. Remember that talk we had about being the best Judge you could be

So you're posting a PM after the match has finished even though the rules clearly state that only the characters are limited to lightspeed?

i like how batdude's threads still exist even after he stops posting

Originally posted by Scoobless
So you're posting a PM after the match has finished even though the rules clearly state that only the characters are limited to lightspeed?

Actually, it doesn't state that only characters are limited to it. Hence we asked it before our first match. That PM is over a month old.

If it's that old then you should have posted it earlier or got BD to say something because at this point you're effectively retconning the rules to suit yourselves after the match has finished.

It wouldn't exactly be fair if we posted a rule that BD agreed to that hurt your team at this point.

Either we all work with the same rules from the start or the whole tourney becomes pretty stupid.

Err...I am pretty sure that we said that the objects are limited to lightspeed in our official posts and said that Batdude told us so...you should have demanded more proof and asked for the PM...you didn't. Not our fault.

It shouldn't matter folks. To me, if it will work at 2x lightspeed (or something similar) it will work at 1x. And if it won't work at 1x, I doubt it would at 2x either.

So that's fine, and we can have BD confirm whatever. But the tactic is the same.

When we are talking about the distances we are talking here...it's not really the same thing.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Err...I am pretty sure that we said that the objects are limited to lightspeed in our official posts and said that Batdude told us so...you should have demanded more proof and asked for the PM...you didn't. Not our fault.

Demand proof of an PM that I never knew existed? saying a couple of times "Batdude said the limits were...." means nothing when the rules were posted clearly for everyone to see and did not once mention speed limitations of attacks.... in fact, with characters all moving around at light speed, without the ability to have an attack move faster than that would mean that almost no-one would have ever been hit in the entire tourney .... and as teleportation is instantaneous travel, it is far faster than light and should also be banned.



You had the info that you were arguing with ... the fact that you never actually presented it during the match was was an unintelligent decision.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
When we are talking about the distances we are talking here...it's not really the same thing.

I disagree. We were never circling all of Apokalips, just the immediate vicinity so that you couldn't fight us with your magical power-ups. So lightspeed, > lightspeed, etc. is kind of a moot point.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Demand proof of an PM that I never knew existed? saying a couple of times "Batdude said the limits were...." means nothing when the rules were posted clearly for everyone to see and did not once mention speed limitations of attacks.... in fact, with characters all moving around at light speed, without the ability to have an attack move faster than that would mean that almost no-one would have ever been hit in the entire tourney .... and as teleportation is instantaneous travel, it is far faster than light and should also be banned.



You had the info that you were arguing with ... the fact that you never actually presented it during the match was was an unintelligent decision.

It's not up to us to question OUR statements and proof, is it?

You had asked us to present the info...we would have done it so.

I think he's just upset because, for this particular point, we were debating with incomplete information....but had know way of knowing it, whereas you guys did.

But seriously, this is upsetting to me because there were, oh, maybe 150 seperate points to consider in our battle. Let's not let this 1 point drown out the battle itself, because as I've said a few times, > or = lightspeed doesn't really make a big difference.

I don't care about your statements, I care about everyone playing by the same rules. Everyone in the tourney was playing with the rules posted at the start of the discussion thread ... except for you two it seems.

Why would I, at any point, demand proof of rules that were posted for everyone to see whenever they liked?

...because the rules were not descriptive enough?

They were fine - no person can move faster than the speed of light - simple and easy to understand.


Doesn't matter now anyway ... I'm not going to bring it up again.









(unless I change my mind)

I will make my vote sometime later tonight... I had a busy day at work and I need to nap before I finish reading and making my decision though I think I'm fairly positive I know who wins this.

all right . . .

3 big factors that never really sat all that well with me in this fight were these:

(1) phantom becoming a herald, let alone the uni-power. i suspect digi and scoob knew they were fighting an uphill battle against me on that score before the match even began, as we had had PAST discussion about the choice of phantom. for all your convincing, it really never was shown that phantom has or even could become someone or something of that level. afterall, there is a whole RACE of phantoms. if they could become THAT powerful, well . . . they'd be a LOT bigger threat to the universe, imo, and immortus and the timekeepers in particular . . . besides, there is also the notoriously inconsistent manner in which the uni-power DOES manifest. to automatically say it grants optimum levels . . . too big a stretch imo . . .

so basically i was looking at it with digi's team sans uni-power + herald power, + all the stuff that came along with it.

(2) on bw's side -- i never really bought into the whole potion recreation either. while it is somewhat more believeable to me than the unipower phantom, still, it wasn't convincing enough to me to be a believeable achievement in the allotted time for prep.

so, that being said, i looked at the battle as digi/scoob sans unipower/heralds VS bw/dc sans AS potion.

(3) the last thing that i never really bought was the whole -- "hammer-negates-all-the-magic-on-the-planet-JUST-IN-CASE-they-had-a-magic-user" attack. thor's willingly throwing away the hammer JUST IN CASE they had a magic-wielder just didn't seem to fit very well. you don't throw away the biggest weapon in the arsenal, JUST IN CASE. beyond that, i still don't know just what you would have negated. juggs's shield was negated, but, as dc pointed out, his cyttorak-granted strength remained, so . . . what would have been countered by the hammer? i honestly don't know. maybe some, maybe all, maybe little or none. i couldn't figure it out for myself. and because it wasn't faster than the charatcer's reaction limits in the tourney -- i DID see that mentioned and was waiting for someone to challenge or buzz bats about it -- i think it COULD have been teleported in any event, buying time for bw's team to attack (in the past it has taken MINUTES for the hammer to return -- thor has turned into blake before it came back . . .)

so, in this match i basically saw thor stading in the open, willingly tossing his hammer away on a possible hunch. even allowing for warlock's ability to f-up ss's control of the boards (which i DID buy) thor was still basically a sitting duck. and because i didn't buy phantom-as-herald, that would leave him WITHOUT that cool armor . . .

i was also under the impression that bw/dc DID grow as they attacked. one of them said it at some point, and it stuck with me though they did almost cost themselves dearly by being overly clever with their opening attack/defense.

the q-bands were ENORMOUSLY under-used in this fight -- they STALEMATED GALACTUS'S POWER, for goodness, sake! yet here, they were hardly mentioned. in fact, almost no one made mention of exactly HOW one team would take out the other's individual members. it was all about discrediting the other and proving/disproving this or that power-up.

in the end, despite some wildly creative prep, for me it came down to an un-amped digi/scoob team, v a magic-enhanced bw/dc team. with that being the case, sorry guys, i had to vote bw/dc. hopefuly i justified my pick above . . .

in the end, an entertaining match by all, one that lived up to the hype, and in general well-natured. you 4 are great examples of just WHY kmc rocks all other comicbook forums.

Digi/Scoobs: 1

BW/DC: 1


Judges left to vote:

Soljer
Jinzin
Srank

Originally posted by leonidas
for all your convincing, it really never was shown that phantom has or even could become someone or something of that level. afterall, there is a whole RACE of phantoms. if they could become THAT powerful, well . . . they'd be a LOT bigger threat to the universe

Ok ... but you have to realise that Space Phantom is the only member of his species that actually has this power ... it'd be like saying that all humans have Dr Strange's/Sentry's powers.

Digi/Scoobs 1
DarkCrawler/Blair Wind 2

Sun Tzu? Hamlet? Space Phantom! ... and yet

Let me just start by saying that the prep that both teams laid out where - to put it lightly - a stretch, even for the most active imagination... Hell, most of this thread is pretty out there.

I'm ignoring the whole Parademon thing... some nice creativity but not really viable option.

I can't see that Superman potion being made in the 20 minutes of prep provided. There are extra variables that weren't involved during it's original creation that would need to be considered and I can't see it being created from scratch through matter manipulation. Sure it could be replicated if their was an original copy on hand but to out right create it? That would require a pretty in depth knowledge of chemistry and the exact chemical changes that happened on every level. 20 minutes just isn't enough time.

At first I thought Space Phantom taking control of the Uni-Power was... well... complete bullshit, but admittedly I started coming around. It could be that Space Phantom simple can't posses immortals, or it could be that he simply can't posses Thor (Mjolnir) and he was simply trying to rationalize why... or maybe he just can't posses Asguardians? Is he really qualified to say what the reason is he couldn't posses Thor? That would take extensive research, on his part. But even though I think a pretty compelling case was made in SP favour, I just don't see him taking control of the Uni-Power as an viable option... and even if I factored it into my option, the Uni-Power is all over the damn place and far to ambiguous to judge how it would factor into this fight.

... and was manipulation of the surf boards really a big deal? I think too much time was spent on that fact. Even if Adam couldn't out right wrestle control away, he can certainly exert his will on 'em enough to be a nuisance.

Anyway I don't think either of the times made a very compiling case for why the would win this match, instead they relied on disproving the other teams Prep-grades rather then supporting their own case... but it was certainly entraining.

My Decision: The victor of this bout depends on whether or not you can get behind Thor setting up a magic debuff around the entire planet. Sure the other team could teleport his hammer away but first they would need located it and then teleport an object that is, relatively speaking, the size of a planet compared to the atom sized Superman.... and even if they manage a 'port, that hammer will be in a picosecond. I'm giving Thor the benefit of the doubt in assuming that having learned from previous bouts decides to debuff the battle field, which takes BA out of the equation right of the bat. So as of the starting bell SP and BA are pretty much useless. It would take a hell of a long time for some one the size of an atom to attack anyone... especially on a planet sized battle field. And while they may be "undetectable" extending the range of invisibility with the boards for the initial attack will give them away to the naked eye... That one spot in the area that doesn't reflect/refract any light will be pretty obvious to Adam Warlock. IMO we are looking at Adam Warlock vs The Keeper while All-Star Sups and Thor engage in an donnybrook... and that will result in Warlock and Thor winning.


Digi and Scoob get my vote.

The final vote lies with Soljer.......... No pressure.

2/2...Soljer's vote declares the winner...

I am in no way tense at this exact moment ....

it really never ceases to amaze me how people can legitimately see things so differently. . .



hope soljer has some good reasons -- whichever way he goes.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


would it?

theoretically atoms that can travel at the speed of light are STILL traveling at light speed right?

Originally posted by jinzin
would it?

theoretically atoms that can travel at the speed of light are STILL traveling at light speed right?

Everything in the microverse moves like it would in the ... macroverse(?)

Characters fly the same speed relative to their size when there .... they may move 1,000 miles almost instantly when there, but they are still only on one microscopic planet and have barely moved at all in relation to the "normal" world.

It's a little weird.

i keep addressing points over pm's so as not to accidentally sway a potential vote!

paranoia is running wild in the KMC!!

Alright, well, I'm going to post this just so people see my name as the last post, and rush to the thread. In the meantime, I'll be typing my actual vote. .

why you sunuva*bleep-bleep-bleepedy-bleep*

Well, it all comes down to this, hm?

I'd like to say congrats to all participants, and let all four competitors that made it this far that I'm, frankly, amazed.

The power meshing, incredibly creative preparation, and tactics that were used here were...

Astonishing.

I'm impressed. With both teams, really.

That said, I'd have to say that I too take issue with the space phantom becoming the uni-power - especially when it seems he cannot take the form of anything immortal. It seems a bit far fetched, to say the least, and it seemed as if the only counter to BW/DC's attack was speculation.

I also took issue with Warlock's control over a greatly enhanced Surfer's board. The scans lended to the fact that Adam could control a board, but not necessarily force the Surfer out of control. Even if the Surfer had to fight for his control, it seems like it would be a miniscule distraction, considering that (in my opinion), Warlock really hadn't been amped NEARLY as much as Digi/Scoob made him out to be. With the lack of the Phantom, and what not.

Also, the magic-negating hammer seems iffy at best. Especially when it could potentially be teleported away - or take fifteen days to circle the planet. .

Like Leo, the All-Star potion also seemed 'meh,' at best. It seemed much more legitimate, given the powers of the crew, but still uninspired and potentially incorrect. The potion was incredibly complex, and to assume it could be made in twenty minutes? Even with a master matter manipulator? .

Regardless, as Leo and Jinzin pointed out, the loss of All Star powers hurt BW/DC a LOT less than the loss of the Uni-power and hammer for Digi/Scoob.

So, it comes down to a buffed BW/DC team versus Adam Warlock and a hammerless Thor. Things don't look good. .

I'd like to repeat myself - congrats to all that took part in this debate. It was very interesting, very impressive, and very humbling (I couldn't compete at this level, for example).

I applaud you four, and all the competitors that took part in the entire competition. It was entertaining, to say the least.

I'd also like to apologize for the lateness of my vote - as I mentioned, the Dorm internet has been down for the past couple days, so I've been absent. My bad. .

What it all comes down to - and what I'm sure you've probably already deducted; my vote.

I declare the winner of this Tournament....

Bigbran and Darthgoober.

Wait? What?

Shit...well, in that case....I guess I'll give my vote to BW and DC.

Congrats, guys. Very well done.

Even if I found your prodding of the judges out of place/potentially unfair.

Prodding?

eh, I asked the judges if their were any questions that they wanted answered for the matchup towards the end of it all. I did it last tourney (which we lost) as well.

Didnt think it was unfair, and still dont

But to each his own, and thanks for the vote

And thanks for the great match up guys

Congrats guys. You earned it, and it was a well-fought match.

And particularly to DC, who had to try 4 times to get himself a title. Kudos bud. You deserve it.

Good job everyone on the match and Congrats BW/DC

yup congratulations.. well done guys..

DIGI....























don't ban us.

So we were the third best team in the tourney....and i was the best debater.



Sounds about right.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Congrats guys. You earned it, and it was a well-fought match.

And particularly to DC, who had to try 4 times to get himself a title. Kudos bud. You deserve it.

I certainly do.

But you were great opponents.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
So we were the third best team in the tourney

Only if you can beat Bran/Goober in a grudge match.

Actually, pretty soon there might be a decent reason to start having consolation matches for 3rd-4th....

Originally posted by Scoobless
Everything in the microverse moves like it would in the ... macroverse(?)

Characters fly the same speed relative to their size when there .... they may move 1,000 miles almost instantly when there, but they are still only on one microscopic planet and have barely moved at all in relation to the "normal" world.

It's a little weird.

ya know, this little thought experiment has had me thinking about it the last couple days. i initially agreed with you, scoob, but upon further reflection, i don't think that IS the case, after all. if something is traveling c, then relativity is chucked out the window, i think.

were you talking specifically about the microverse in the comicbook world?

maybe it's just this damnable disease tha's making me nuts. haven't slept well in 3 days . . .

I don't think everything goes relatively on microverse. When Xavier went there, his powers did not go any weaker, in fact he was able to destroy planets with ease if I remember correctly...

Originally posted by leonidas
if something is traveling c, then relativity is chucked out the window, i think.

Light speed is measured in miles per hour (or whatever) ... the relative distance of a mile (or a million miles) in the microverse is less than a milimeter in the normal world.

Originally posted by leonidas
were you talking specifically about the microverse in the comicbook world?

Of course .... hence the comic examples I kept using.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Of course .... hence the comic examples I kept using.

okay. cool. i knew that . . .

your example DID lead to some interesting discussion in teh real world, though, scoob, for which i'm grateful.

mod's note -- a am veering off the topic of the thread, fully cognizant of the risks i entail in doing so.

but it's just a cool topic! so bear with me, dammnit and stop getting all over my case digi because i voted against you.

geez . . .

*ahem* so, as i was saying, just to extend what i thought was a cool thought experiment, let's say the ss wanted to race a particle from earth to the sun. and let's say this particle is 10000000000x SMALLER than a tachyon -- such that electrons and even quarks looked like huge-ass planets -- then wouldn't it SEEM like the distance from one electron to another would be like planetary distances in OUR pov? i mean, wouldn't the distances SEEM to be 10000000000x greater to that particle? even though the distances are microscopic to us, they would seem vast from the perspective of the super-small . . . and if that IS the case, wouldn't it then follow that from the POV of the hyper-small particle, that it is actually covering a GREATER distance than the silver surfer would be? 10000000000x greater, in point of fact . . .? (makes my head hurt . . .)

but . . . like i said above, in answer to my own question, i realized that relativity (i THINK) goes out the window when we are dealing with c. in other words, i think the distance is absolute from BOTH perspectives. somehow. though that really doesn't seem to make much sense to me either

course, the whole thing could simply be a figment of my disease-addled mind. seriously wondering if i have a ******* pneumonia . . .

Stupid fictional universe ...

all that heavy thinking and THAT'S what i get . . .

bawling

oh, and digi: what do you think of the new sig? better than the transformers?

(fionavar tapestry was the greatest set of fantasy books i've ever read, btw . . .)

Could use a border, less contrasting background, and some blending. But, surprisingly, the seemingly disparate images manage to work together better than expected, so it's not bad for the level you're at. The lens flare on the horn is a fun, if slightly heavy-handed, touch.

Sorry if that sounds not so great...it's intended as a compliment.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Could use a border, less contrasting background, and some blending. But, surprisingly, the seemingly disparate images manage to work together better than expected, so it's not bad for the level you're at. The lens flare on the horn is a fun, if slightly heavy-handed, touch.

Sorry if that sounds not so great...it's intended as a compliment.



and believe me, i'll take it as such!

clap

by putting a border (they don't have ready-made borders in photoshop) i was afraid of making the images seem too small . . .

I just mean a 1-2 pixel black stroke to frame it. You don't need anything elborate.

i'll ponder . . .

In PS, to add a border, I always just increase the canvas size 2 or 4 pixels, and make sure the color is set to black (or whatever other color you want...black normally works fine).

But normally I do my borders in Gimp. Not sure why though...force of habit I guess.

Originally posted by leonidas
seriously wondering if i have a ******* pneumonia . . .

Well, that just proves that you don't.

Nobody ever wonders if they have a disease to find out they're correct. The paranoid wonder if they have diseases that they don't, and the ignorant/naive/optimists get diseases without realizing it.

No, there is nothing in between. ermmnone

Well... If light speed wasn't absolute, then does that mean that if me and a guy slightly smaller then me raced at lightspeed, that I'd win by a microscopic amount because he'd cover a tiny little bit less distance then me?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, that just proves that you don't.

Nobody ever wonders if they have a disease to find out they're correct. The paranoid wonder if they have diseases that they don't, and the ignorant/naive/optimists get diseases without realizing it.

No, there is nothing in between. ermmnone

wasn't wondering if i had a disease . . . i was wondering if i had pneumonia.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well... If light speed wasn't absolute, then does that mean that if me and a guy slightly smaller then me raced at lightspeed, that I'd win by a microscopic amount because he'd cover a tiny little bit less distance then me?

doesn't make it easier to understand or explain though . . .

Originally posted by Scoobless
Only if you can beat Bran/Goober in a grudge match.


We actually WON a match though...

And... we could dissapear and still take that team down, with... I'll say, two posts each.

Certainly wouldn't be a match...

So I dont think I did my happy dance.....


Now I feel complete inside haermm

Originally posted by leonidas
doesn't make it easier to understand or explain though . . .

How about this ... if light (and thus lightspeed) was not relatively altered by entering the microverse, then the subatomic people would be the same size as/smaller than the photons present in light, and would therefore not be capable of using that light to see (as the human eye would be smaller than what it is designed to process) rendering the entire microverse blind .... and the occupants would probably be smashed to pieces by protons.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6880/54300653ob7.th.jpg http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7076/62500289uj2.th.jpg

shrug

Originally posted by Scoobless
How about this ... if light (and thus lightspeed) was not relatively altered by entering the microverse, then the subatomic people would be the same size as/smaller than the photons present in light, and would therefore not be capable of using that light to see (as the human eye would be smaller than what it is designed to process) rendering the entire microverse blind .... and the occupants would probably be smashed to pieces by protons.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6880/54300653ob7.th.jpg http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7076/62500289uj2.th.jpg

shrug



i get the alteration in lightspeed in the microverse -- it is actually a different universe so it follows it would play by its own rules. i was considering the more 'real life' scenario. but some nice dedction, though.

course, in real life, i think time for both ss and the particle stop and so basically bothy travel their respective differences in zero time.

I'd like to preface this bump by saying that I think BW/DC earned their win completely, and deserve the title.

Now, with that said:

I know wiki isn't always right, but look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_%28Marvel_Comics%29

Hercules' first appearance is technically Avengers #10, in which Immortus pulls Hercules from the ancient past to battle Thor. As this is the Hercules from the past, the "modern" Hercules has no memory of the encounter when meeting Thor in Thor Annual #1 (1965). A retcon in the mini-series Avengers Forever (1998-2000), which "fixed" many inconsistencies in Avengers history, determined that the historical Hercules that Thor first met was in fact a Space Phantom in disguise.

He can become immortals.



...

Once again, congrats to the champs....this isn't me trying to be a jerk. I just couldn't not post this. This may not have turned the match in our favor, but, well, damn...just damn.

...

Also, thanks to D-Block (or not, as the case may be ). He unearthed this, not me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'd like to preface this bump by saying that I think BW/DC earned their win completely, and deserve the title.

Now, with that said:

I know wiki isn't always right, but look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_%28Marvel_Comics%29

Hercules' first appearance is technically Avengers #10, in which Immortus pulls Hercules from the ancient past to battle Thor. As this is the Hercules from the past, the "modern" Hercules has no memory of the encounter when meeting Thor in Thor Annual #1 (1965). A retcon in the mini-series Avengers Forever (1998-2000), which "fixed" many inconsistencies in Avengers history, determined that the historical Hercules that Thor first met was in fact a Space Phantom in disguise.

He can become immortals.



...

Once again, congrats to the champs....this isn't me trying to be a jerk. I just couldn't not post this. This may not have turned the match in our favor, but, well, damn...just damn.

...

Also, thanks to D-Block (or not, as the case may be ). He unearthed this, not me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'd like to preface this bump by saying that I think BW/DC earned their win completely, and deserve the title.

Now, with that said:

I know wiki isn't always right, but look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_%28Marvel_Comics%29

Hercules' first appearance is technically Avengers #10, in which Immortus pulls Hercules from the ancient past to battle Thor. As this is the Hercules from the past, the "modern" Hercules has no memory of the encounter when meeting Thor in Thor Annual #1 (1965). A retcon in the mini-series Avengers Forever (1998-2000), which "fixed" many inconsistencies in Avengers history, determined that the historical Hercules that Thor first met was in fact a Space Phantom in disguise.

He can become immortals.



...

Once again, congrats to the champs....this isn't me trying to be a jerk. I just couldn't not post this. This may not have turned the match in our favor, but, well, damn...just damn.

...

Also, thanks to D-Block (or not, as the case may be ). He unearthed this, not me. dur

Heh.

whatdur

Originally posted by Badabing
whatdur Close it Bada you know you want to