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This should be interesting... The Punisher vs Shang Chi H2H. No weapons. The fight takes place on a rooftop in Hell's Kitchen.

Originally posted by qqqqqqq


Let me guess your going to tell me that Shang Chi curbstomps Frank? Show how much you know.

Shang chi kicks Franks ass up and down the street

8/10 to the Shang-Man.

Originally posted by grey fox
Shang chi kicks Franks ass up and down the street

8/10 to the Shang-Man.

Originally posted by grey fox
Shang chi kicks Franks ass up and down the street

8/10 to the Shang-Man.



Originally posted by Alfheim
Punisher vs DD

If frank can put up this good of a fight against DD hes a top tier martial artist.

http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6057xo.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6069kr.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6074yb.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6089is.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6095mh.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6116zo.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6139lz.jpg

Punisher Vs Bullseye

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40132sr.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40141vt.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40159um.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40169vo.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40175vn.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40193wi.jpg



http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

Still giving it 8/10 to Shang? Im giving it 6/10 to Shang and maybe even 5/10

Originally posted by Alfheim


Still giving it 8/10 to Shang? Im giving it 6/10 to Shang and maybe even 5/10

Yeah, because all I see is frank getting his ass kicked and getting about four shots in . 2 of which are cheap shots and the other two being in actual meele.

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah, because all I see is frank getting his ass kicked and getting about four shots in . 2 of which are cheap shots and the other two being in actual meele.

So the above scans which show Frank taking it to DD and beating Bullseye dont mean anything?

Shang 8/10.

Chi's out of Frank's league, badly.

Originally posted by "V"
Shang 8/10.

Chi's out of Frank's league, badly.

.......did you see the scans?

frank will get served, to his credit he will not scream or flinch, not that he'll see it coming anyway.

To his credit, Frank would put up a fight, and certainly put a severe hurting on Chi. However, even in those scans, Frank is clearly outclassed in skill and relies heavily on utter brutality to overcome his opponents (even though neither fight really finishes, and he is losing to DD when that fight ends...)

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought Chi>Matt in martial arts. As far as I am concerned Chi should just out finesse Castle probably 7-8/10

Shang-Chi wins.

But if Frank is portrayed correctly he gives Shang a tough fight.

I mean Franks damage soak is fuggin insane to taking hits from USAgent, Doc Samson, to getting hit by tranqs as he still keeps on going.

Chi might be the better pure-martial artist but DD brings more to the table with his super-senses and Mystical Stick training.

Originally posted by inamilist
To his credit, Frank would put up a fight, and certainly put a severe hurting on Chi. However, even in those scans, Frank is clearly outclassed in skill and relies heavily on utter brutality to overcome his opponents (even though neither fight really finishes, and he is losing to DD when that fight ends...)

Im sorry but thats a little unfair. Frank may have used brutality in the fight but there was alot of martial arts as well. Frank even used a move on DD to dislocate his arm.

http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpg

POP!

There is also this fight as well.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

There is also another fight where Frank fights DD an has a good showing. I dont expect Frank to beat DD but he is good enough to pull some wins.

You also did not mention the fight which shows Frank beating up Bullseye. Bullseye is a better fighter than DD


Originally posted by inamilist

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought Chi>Matt in martial arts. As far as I am concerned Chi should just out finesse Castle probably 7-8/10

Yeah but DD has a radar sense that helps heighten his skills so I would have thought that DD would beeat Shang Chi. DD has better reflexes than Chi and is probably better at pressure points than Chi. DD has used his senses to shatter diamond.

If Frank can give DD that much trouble Chi is only beating Frank 6/10 or even 5/10. .

edit.

Shang Chi kicks the Living s*** out of Frank.

Originally posted by jasonk3
Shang Chi kicks the Living s*** out of Frank.

Cant you see the scans?

Shang wins. Thats one confrontation you have of Matt actually a good fight from Frank, but in practically every other instance in their series Matt was getting the upper hand and beating him in most every instance.

Basically same thing in the fight with Bullseye. Bullseye was toying with Frank throughout their series. Frank is good, but Shang takes it to him

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cant you see the scans?

I see em and Shang Chi would styll kick the living s*** out of him.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cant you see the scans?

Note to alfheim:

STOP THE MANCRUSH.

Frank goes down hard, Chi outdoes Daredevil martial arts wise and Frank gets battered by Matt.

Punisher 3/10

yeah frank puts up a hell of a fight, but frank is not about knowing all forms of martial arts, he is damn good at about a dozen, and maybe mastered about half of them, but shang chi is master of many many more. Frank has better damage taking, but thats all he has, give him a .45 with one clip and it will be all she wrote for shang chi.

Originally posted by jgiant
yeah frank puts up a hell of a fight, but frank is not about knowing all forms of martial arts, he is damn good at about a dozen, and maybe mastered about half of them, but shang chi is master of many many more. Frank has better damage taking, but thats all he has, give him a .45 with one clip and it will be all she wrote for shang chi.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cant you see the scans?

Alf, seriously. Relax. We see the scans. And as impressive as they are...

It doesn't change the fact that Shang Chi is in a completely different league from Frank. He would destroy him 9/10 times. That 1 time is just a lucky shot for Frank.

Frank is a damage soak and an incredible fighter. Shang is top-tier, one of the best there is.

I decided to actually play this fight out using both characters stats in the Marvel RPG, I thought it would be interesting to see what happend.

Shang is the more skilled fighter, RPG wise all their other physical stats are equal, first fight...

Shang kept putting Frank down and he kept getting back up Shang laid 10 solid blows to Frank's 7, however Frank's Kevlar gave him some protection from damage and Frank just barely beat him.

Second fight...I let Shang use his Chi to enhance his physical abilities, again Frank got hit more and this time due to Shang being stronger due to his Chi energy, Shang laid out Frank.

Third fight, I didn't let Shang use his Chi or Frank have his Kevlar and Frank lost again.

All in all I would say that Frank is good enough to get a win or two but Shang is more skilled and the Chi does make a difference.

Comic wise I would see a similar fight between Frank and Shang as between him and DD, I think it would still be 7/10 to Shang.

Marvel rpg?

Originally posted by jgiant
Marvel rpg?

Yup there has been one since 85, its what got me into comics in the first place.

http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast_list/all.htm

I am sorry, but this is an extremely dumb match. Give Punisher his weapons and still he losses the majority.

You went to far with the whole punisher a top tier fighter crap. He is a second tier at best. Shang-chi out classes his fighting skills and can boost all his stats to superhuman levels with chi. Punisher stands not chance

Punisher is Retarded. Guns in comics are retarded. Guns in real life a retarded, actually

"You... Democrat! Protesting war and banning guns. If you Nancys had your way, nobody would ever shoot anybody! And then where would we be?"

-Denny Crane

Anyway, Shang Chi wins.

Bullseye a better fighter than DD, since when??

Like stated Frank is good, but he's used to fighting thugs and such. Shang is on a completely different level, that even frank with his full arsenal isn't reaching.

Shang takes it to him 9/10

Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
Bullseye a better fighter than DD, since when??

I would like to know that too, I have Bullseyes first apearence and he wasn't too keen on going h2h with DD.

I have quite a few issues where DD beats Bullseye, they always have entertaining fights but I have always seen Bullseye as below DD.

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Punisher is Retarded. Guns in comics are retarded. Guns in real life a retarded, actually I don't know if retarded is an appropriate word, but ur intitled to your opinion.

I was just trying to fling inhumane accusations the punisher's way. I guess a more politically correct term would be loser? Deadbeat? Worthless pile of junk? annoyance to most other heroes?

Shang stomps him. 9/10, whilst being generous to the Punisher.

I'm not going to be that generous. Shang Chi wins 10/10

Originally posted by "V"
Note to alfheim:

STOP THE MANCRUSH.

Frank goes down hard, Chi outdoes Daredevil martial arts wise and Frank gets battered by Matt.

Exactly

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
I was just trying to fling inhumane accusations the punisher's way. I guess a more politically correct term would be loser? Deadbeat? Worthless pile of junk? annoyance to most other heroes? More like the superhero's get in his way.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This should be interesting... The Punisher vs Shang Chi H2H. No weapons. The fight takes place on a rooftop in Hell's Kitchen.

Wait because Frank gets battered by Matt means Chi destroys Frank.

The same DD that puts Logan down and Logan easily dispatched Chi.

Or how about the same Chi that lost the the Cat and the Cat got easily owned by Taskmaster.


ABC logic does not work. Don't get me wrong Chi wins but there sure is a lot of Chi wanking in this thread.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait because DD gets battered by Matt means Chi destroys DD.

The same DD that puts Logan down and Logan easily dispatched Chi.


The only real win that DD has over Logan was pure PIS...

Chi pwns DD, who is good, but is NOT a top tier martial artist.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait because Frank gets battered by Matt means Chi destroys Frank.

The same DD that puts Logan down and Logan easily dispatched Chi.

DD win was PIS I ahve proven it to be PIS. It was written by Ennis. In a non PIS fight DD was taken out in 5 pannels by Logan.

Originally posted by capt it up
DD win was PIS I ahve proven it to be PIS. It was written by Ennis. In a non PIS fight DD was taken out in 5 pannels by Logan.

Sigh...here we go.

Okay, capt. Let's just say we follow that logic. According to what you say, DD's win over Logan was PIS, but Logan's win over DD was not. Of course.

How come I cannot just declare that Logan's win over DD was PIS? I mean, all you used was the fact that Ennis wrote it. So what? Who wrote the Logan win over DD? Perhaps he screwed something up, eh?

All I'm saying is that just declaring something to be PIS SOLELY because of a specific is pretty lame.

....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.

That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, .

Originally posted by Soljer
....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.

That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, .

Me thinks you missed the point of the post. Which is okay, since it wasn't really directed towards you anyway, Soljer.

While I'm not arguing that it's not PIS, the logic behind the claim is just absurd.

Yes, it the DD win over Logan was PIS. But as soon as Wolverine incapacitates DD in five panels it's considered 100% accurate?

The point of my previous post was to ask why it's automatically considered accurate and PIS-free when Wolverine wins, but vice versa when he loses?

I never said it was totally legit for Wolverine to stomp Daredevil like that. I don't really think it is legit. A fight between the two would likely go to Wolverine everytime, but it would not be any simple encounter, their fight would probably take quite a while, since Daredevil already knows where every claw will land.

However, I don't really think it's legit for Wolverine to stomp Shang Chi like he did.

So, maybe it's just my bias that makes me not like the fact that Logan beat Chi and Murdock so easily,

Originally posted by Soljer
I never said it was totally legit for Wolverine to stomp Daredevil like that. I don't really think it is legit. A fight between the two would likely go to Wolverine everytime, but it would not be any simple encounter, their fight would probably take quite a while, since Daredevil already knows where every claw will land.

However, I don't really think it's legit for Wolverine to stomp Shang Chi like he did.

So, maybe it's just my bias that makes me not like the fact that Logan beat Chi and Murdock so easily,

Exactly, you see my point.

As much as i like the punisher i'm going to have to go with this shang Chi person.

Its like pitting Bruce Lee up against one of arnold schwarzenegger movie characters

Originally posted by marvelprince
Shang wins. Thats one confrontation you have of Matt actually a good fight from Frank, but in practically every other instance in their series Matt was getting the upper hand and beating him in most every instance.

Should that happen? In their first encounter Frank had good showings and almost killed DD in this fight.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

In their second fight DD had the upper hand, but Frank connected with him a sufficent number of times.

Frank loses to DD 7/10, but a well written Frank does not get manhandled by DD.

This is done by people who dont know Franks history, hell there is even one issue where Frank deflects Caps shield and could have killed him.

DD is more lethal than Shang why does Frank lose 7/10 to Shang?

Originally posted by marvelprince

Basically same thing in the fight with Bullseye. Bullseye was toying with Frank throughout their series. Frank is good, but Shang takes it to him

Ok show me where hes toying with Frank, is it here?

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg

Im confused because. I never knew that Bullseye liked being choked to death.


Originally posted by inamilist


So your not going to reply to my post then?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but thats a little unfair. Frank may have used brutality in the fight but there was alot of martial arts as well. Frank even used a move on DD to dislocate his arm.

http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpg

POP!

There is also this fight as well.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

There is also another fight where Frank fights DD an has a good showing. I dont expect Frank to beat DD but he is good enough to pull some wins.

You also did not mention the fight which shows Frank beating up Bullseye. Bullseye is a better fighter than DD




Yeah but DD has a radar sense that helps heighten his skills so I would have thought that DD would beeat Shang Chi. DD has better reflexes than Chi and is probably better at pressure points than Chi. DD has used his senses to shatter diamond.

If Frank can give DD that much trouble Chi is only beating Frank 6/10 or even 5/10. .



Originally posted by Metalmanx

It doesn't change the fact that Shang Chi is in a completely different league from Frank. He would destroy him 9/10 times. That 1 time is just a lucky shot for Frank.

Ok well whats this then?

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

If you were also aware of Franks history he has another fight were he has a good showing against DD, sure Frank was losing but he put up a good fight.

Furthermore whats this then?

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg


Originally posted by Metalmanx

Frank is a damage soak and an incredible fighter. Shang is top-tier, one of the best there is.

He is not just good at soaking damage he has three good showings on DD and has beaten Bullseye in h2H. Shang wins 6/10

DD got him with a advanced pressure-point to the neck. Logan went down and couldn't breathe. Even in a X-Men issue Logan went down to a female opponent because she tagged Logan well in the neck and she remarked how Logan is very vulnerable there.

So now add to that a advanced martial artist like DD. Lets face it, in comics writers are not going to always take the time and make for long dragged out lenthy battles as they should be, other wise most book-stories would never finish. What issue was DD taken out in 5 pannels out of curiosity?

Originally posted by capt it up
In a non PIS fight DD was taken out in 5 pannels by Logan.

Sigh. We've been over this before. In that fight, Daredevil wasnt thinking clearly. His judgement was clouded. Wolverine even stated that. Anyone who gets near her(Typhoid Mary) doesnt think straight.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Should that happen? In their first encounter Frank had good showings and almost killed DD in this fight.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

In their second fight DD had the upper hand, but Frank connected with him a sufficent number of times.

Frank loses to DD 7/10, but a well written Frank does not get manhandled by DD.

This is done by people who dont know Franks history, hell there is even one issue where Frank deflects Caps shield and could have killed him.

DD is more lethal than Shang why does Frank lose 7/10 to Shang?



Ok show me where hes toying with Frank, is it here?

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg

Im confused because. I never knew that Bullseye liked being choked to death.




So your not going to reply to my post then?







Ok well whats this then?

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

If you were also aware of Franks history he has another fight were he has a good showing against DD, sure Frank was losing but he put up a good fight.

Furthermore whats this then?

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg




He is not just good at soaking damage he has three good showings on DD and has beaten Bullseye in h2H. Shang wins 6/10

Alf, could you do me a favor and stop thinking you're the only one who knows things about comics? Seriously, man. I like you, don't ruin that by assuming you're the only one with any knowledge of Frank's history. I see the scans just fine, too. Like I stated before, Frank is an INCREDIBLE fighter, 2nd Tier easily. And he's also a damage soak, which is not a bad thing. Frank's durability is so close to superhuman it's not even funny. But Shang is just lightyears away from Frank in terms of skill. As is DD really. But that would sure be a boring comic, wouldn't it?

Shang wins this fight 9/10.

Shang-Chi is far above Frank in h2h, Shang wins 7/10. Frank gets a generous 3 for his durability and cheap shots.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So your not going to reply to my post then?


lol, i had missed it sorry to make you indignant

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but thats a little unfair. Frank may have used brutality in the fight but there was alot of martial arts as well. Frank even used a move on DD to dislocate his arm.


I didn't say Frank didn't use martial arts. All marines are trained in some for of hand to hand combat, and I'm sure hes received training outside of that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpg

POP!

The words immediatly following that are "An arm for a leg. He's smarter than me." This is pretty much exactly what I said.

Originally posted by Alfheim
There is also this fight as well.

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg

Frank sucker punches DD while he is talking?

EDIT: I looked at it again, its not a sucker punch, but it surely isn't proof of anything beyond what I have already argued for.... Unless the claim is Frank can one shot DD?

Originally posted by Alfheim
There is also another fight where Frank fights DD an has a good showing. I dont expect Frank to beat DD but he is good enough to pull some wins.

What is the point of this? I don't know what you are doing? All I have said is that Frank is a good fighter, so you post scans of him being beaten or almost winning against other good fighters to try to convince me of what?

Originally posted by Alfheim
You also did not mention the fight which shows Frank beating up Bullseye. Bullseye is a better fighter than DD

I don't agree that bullseye is greater than DD. There fight was very even and didn't finish. See above.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but DD has a radar sense that helps heighten his skills so I would have thought that DD would beeat Shang Chi. DD has better reflexes than Chi and is probably better at pressure points than Chi. DD has used his senses to shatter diamond.

This isn't chi vs DD, I don't really have an opinion on that one either. It's a lot like the cosmic battles that always are thrown around. I have no real interest in these unmeasurable hierarchies.

Originally posted by Alfheim
If Frank can give DD that much trouble Chi is only beating Frank 6/10 or even 5/10. .

So what was the value in even bringing any of this back up. We agree that frank is good but not as good as top tier fighters. We agree that he would put up a good fight against Chi, and we agree chi would eventually take a majority.

Are you really that interested in the difference between 5-6/10 and 7-8/10?

7/10 shang

Originally posted by Soljer
....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.

That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, .
yes and thats why it PIS. Logan has time and time again taken shots to the same area that were far more damaging and was fine and yet a jabb takes him out clearly screams PIS

Why does every thread find its way back to Wolverine?

As far as that particular showing, I'd say it's not PIS. However, simultaneously, I'd also say it's inadmissible for a debate between Wolverine and Daredevil, due to Typhoid Mary clouding Matt's judgment.

He was likely fighting stupid. And it IS within a reckless Matt's abilities to be put in a full nelson by a clear minded Wolverine, who is at LEAST as skilled, and is a bit faster to boot.

Would a real fight between them go down like that? Never. However, that particular instance was not PIS.

Bringing it up to show that Wolverine is superior to Daredevil? That's bullshit. But the instance itself wasn't too 'stupid' in the PIS sense of the word.

This has been officially renamed: Wolverine vs. Daredevil

Originally posted by jgiant
This has been officially renamed: Wolverine vs. Daredevil

LOL

Originally posted by jgiant
This has been officially renamed: Wolverine vs. Daredevil

Only because it's a hell of a lot more interesting than the curbstomping Frank would receive in the original thread.

Is there no one out there that understands the point I am trying to make? It's really not that hard to comprehend, and yet some people seem to keep making it more difficult than it is.

And by the way, capt. "And then there's the whole Typhoid Mary thing, in which she was definitely affecting Daredevil to the point where he's not totally 100% there with reality." This statement did NOT mean that she warped reality in any way. Rather, I meant it to say that she was messing with Daredevil's thoughts. He OBVIOUSLY was not thinking clearly, and this would affect the way he fought. When you have different reasons to fight (or not fight, as the case may be), you fight differently.

Edit: Apparently Soljer gets my point. Kudos.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Is there no one out there that understands the point I am trying to make? It's really not that hard to comprehend, and yet some people seem to keep making it more difficult than it is.

And by the way, capt. "And then there's the whole Typhoid Mary thing, in which she was definitely affecting Daredevil to the point where he's not totally 100% there with reality." This statement did NOT mean that she warped reality in any way. Rather, I meant it to say that she was messing with Daredevil's thoughts. He OBVIOUSLY was not thinking clearly, and this would affect the way he fought. When you have different reasons to fight (or not fight, as the case may be), you fight differently.

Edit: Apparently Soljer gets my point. Kudos.

Your point does nto valid stating PIS. Her power makes you want to protect her in no way woudl that effetc your fighting skill. She made DD think wolverine was trying to kill her. In no way would that effect his fighting skills all it would do would make DD want to fight wolverine. In no way shape or form does that make the fight pis.

Originally posted by capt it up
Your point does nto valid stating PIS. Her power makes you want to protect her in no way woudl that effetc your fighting skill. She made DD think wolverine was trying to kill her. In no way would that effect his fighting skills all it would do would make DD want to fight wolverine. In no way shape or form does that make the fight pis.

So then that would validate using any instance in which Wolverine is mind-controlled, right? I mean, he's still being programmed to kill in the most efficient way. And so if he loses, it still counts, right?

doh

No. That's wrong. I know what her power does. And any sort of mental effect is going to hinder a person's fighting. In that instance, he didn't fight Wolverine the way he would a criminal (really, he didn't fight him at all, which is why it's just as PIS-esque as the DD win over Logan). DD still knew Logan was not a bad guy, and he was only trying to keep Logan from killing her.

Keeping someone at bay and actually fighting him are two VERY DIFFERENT things.

Serious question time: Now be honest. If DD had put Wolverine into the full-nelson in five panels (basically just flip-flopped), would you consider that PIS? Really, I just want to know.

Originally posted by Soljer
Only because it's a hell of a lot more interesting than the curbstomping Frank would receive in the original thread.

QFT

Originally posted by Metalmanx
So then that would validate using any instance in which Wolverine is mind-controlled, right? I mean, he's still being programmed to kill in the most efficient way. And so if he loses, it still counts, right?

doh

No. That's wrong. I know what her power does. And any sort of mental effect is going to hinder a person's fighting. In that instance, he didn't fight Wolverine the way he would a criminal (really, he didn't fight him at all, which is why it's just as PIS-esque as the DD win over Logan). DD still knew Logan was not a bad guy, and he was only trying to keep Logan from killing her.

Keeping someone at bay and actually fighting him are two VERY DIFFERENT things.

Serious question time: Now be honest. If DD had put Wolverine into the full-nelson in five panels (basically just flip-flopped), would you consider that PIS? Really, I just want to know.

under the circumstances that DD was put there?

probably not pis.

That bloody greased up death guy,he's cost me 300$ worth of business already...he kept touching all the candy...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Alf, could you do me a favor and stop thinking you're the only one who knows things about comics? Seriously, man. I like you, don't ruin that by assuming you're the only one with any knowledge of Frank's history. I see the scans just fine, too. Like I stated before, Frank is an INCREDIBLE fighter, 2nd Tier easily. And he's also a damage soak, which is not a bad thing. Frank's durability is so close to superhuman it's not even funny. But Shang is just lightyears away from Frank in terms of skill. As is DD really. But that would sure be a boring comic, wouldn't it?

Shang wins this fight 9/10.

Ok metal im well and truly p***ed off with you right now, but i'll try to be as civil as possible, so lets try and discuss this like civilsed gentlemen.

I know you said you like me, but sometimes I find debating with you really infuriating. I know myself that I can over react and assume people are talking rubbish, but to be quite honest recently I dont think ive been too bad.

When I debate with you I dont think you really listen to anything I have to say and every time I have scans you've always got something negative to say about it.

I want you to sit back a minute and imagine your me and see how annoying this is.

First of all I give you a set of scans which show a good showing with Frank vs DD. What do you say? Its a lucky shot. Please help me out here in the Black Panther vs Iron fist thread you said this:

Originally posted by Metalmanx


My point was that if there is only one piece of evidence and it is written well on both sides, then I have no problem with it being used as evidence.



I dont understand this why cant that fight be taken as evidence to prove that Frank isnt lightyears behind Shang? Already you said that you can take one piece of evidence, but not in this case.

The thing that winds me up about you is that when it comes to analysing my scans the glass is always half empty. Lets think about this, the fight was about 7 pages long...I think. At any rate it was a long fight, if it was just luck Frank would have hit DD with a lucky shot and taken him down. Dont you think its unlikely that a vastly inferior fighter would last that long against DD?

That was a viable way of looking at those scans, but nooooo your only response was its a lucky fight.

Ok then there are my second scans. Do I get a response....no. I dont get it DD doesnt even hit Frank once in that fight. Frank hits DD twice and manages to throw DD over his back. Dont you think at least you should have the etiquette to at least address the scans?

Ok third scans Frank is fighting Bullseye and the fight ends with Frank choking the life out of Bullseye. Bullseye has beaten Elecktra before, right? I would have thought that Elecktra would put up a good fight against Shang.

Metal im not trying to offend you but half of the time I feel like im talking to a brick wall. DD could probably beat Shang Chi and take a majority, but Frank has good showings against him. Bullseye and Elecktra wouldnt do badly either and Frank has beaten Bullseye. So I really really really dont understand how you should be offended.

I should be offended because ive gone to the effort of producing the scans you havent given me anything. C'mon be honest what have you given to this debate, nothing. Any scans, no. Any explanations, no. Im producing all the evidence you're giving me nothing and you're getting pissed off with me?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1591/yobarberkp5zl3.th.jpg

Look at the above scans. Shang Chi is such a good fighter that he gets curbstomped by Wolverine. If Shang Chi is so good why didnt he put up a better fight?

Now this statement winds me up.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Frank is an INCREDIBLE fighter, 2nd Tier easily. And he's also a damage soak, which is not a bad thing.

This is the same **** you say about Cap. You say you like Cap and you think hes great, I then find you saying that you're tired of his jobber aura. Does that sound like somebody who thinks that Cap is great? Now im sure you said it I just cant find the quote.

You know what the real killer is though? You like Cap so much you came to the Cap respect thread and started arguing over minor details. In all fairness you did apologise but basically I had to ask you to leave.

My point is this, you say you think characters are incredible but what you say and what you do contradicts it. Hell you've never contributed anything positive to the Cap thread. Xmarksthespot hates Cap and hes contributed more to the thread. You like Cap so much the only thing you contributed to the Cap respect thread is negativity and your doing the same thing to Punisher.

your whole arguement is about the fact Logan beat shang-chi? Logan would stomp frank in h2h combat. Frank skill level is well below logans.

Shang-chi would stomp frank in h2h combat stop being stupid.

Originally posted by Alfheim

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1591/yobarberkp5zl3.th.jpg

Look at the above scans. Shang Chi is such a good fighter that he gets curbstomped by Wolverine. If Shang Chi is so good why didnt he put up a better fight?


No offense and I can see your mad, but I wouldn't say that scan was saying curbstomp to me, it looked like they both got a hit in each.

Shang may have not got up after that, I don't know as I haven't see the next page but, from your scan it looks like Shang nails Logan and Logan hits him right back.

Wolverine has a lot of advantages over Punisher, healing factor, enhanced strength, speed, senses, 100 years of training etc etc.

So Wolverine beating Shang doesn't follow that hes not that good a fighter, I would and have said from the begining that Frank will put up one hell of a fight and make a good showing, maybe even nick a few wins.

but the majority goes to Shang imho.

Originally posted by capt it up
your whole arguement is about the fact Logan beat shang-chi? Logan would stomp frank in h2h combat. Frank skill level is well below logans.

Shang-chi would stomp frank in h2h combat stop being stupid.

Cosigned. On all accounts.

Originally posted by inamilist
l

I didn't say Frank didn't use martial arts. All marines are trained in some for of hand to hand combat, and I'm sure hes received training outside of that.

Well this is what you said.

Originally posted by inamilist
However, even in those scans, Frank is clearly outclassed in skill and relies heavily on utter brutality to overcome his opponents (even though neither fight really finishes, and he is losing to DD when that fight ends...)




Basically you said that Punisher relies heavily on brutality. That statement implies that the Punisher was not good enough at MA to use technique against him. My point was that you were being unfair because most of the scans show Frank using technique.


Originally posted by inamilist

The words immediatly following that are "An arm for a leg. He's smarter than me." This is pretty much exactly what I said.

This is exactly what im talking about you are not giving Frank his due. Your are focusing on all the negative aspects. Frank also said "I suprised him."

My point is this we both agree that DD is a superior fighter, but by saying that Franbk relies heavily on brutality you are implying that Frank is a much inferior fighter, and in any case if you look at the fight closely thats not true.



Originally posted by inamilist

Frank sucker punches DD while he is talking?

EDIT: I looked at it again, its not a sucker punch, but it surely isn't proof of anything beyond what I have already argued for.... Unless the claim is Frank can one shot DD?

See what I mean? The fight starts with Frank kicking DD in the back and doing a martial art move that throws DD over his back. You then focused on that one punch were he hits DD when hes talking. Didnt it occur to you that DD has radar sense and that he should have been able to see it coming? Suddenly DD doesnt have radar sense anymore.



Originally posted by inamilist

What is the point of this? I don't know what you are doing? All I have said is that Frank is a good fighter, so you post scans of him being beaten or almost winning against other good fighters to try to convince me of what?

My point is he is better than you think he is.



Originally posted by inamilist

I don't agree that bullseye is greater than DD.

Neither did I, but hes beaten Elecktra.


Originally posted by inamilist

There fight was very even and didn't finish. See above.


This is how the fight ends.....does that fight look even to you?

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40193wi.jpg

Help me out here. Punisher is choking the life out of Bullseye and Bullseye is on his knees and you've come to the conclusion that the fight was even.

Would it be unreasonable to assume that your are not analysing the scans properly?



Originally posted by inamilist

This isn't chi vs DD, I don't really have an opinion on that one either. It's a lot like the cosmic battles that always are thrown around. I have no real interest in these unmeasurable hierarchies.

Well its an important part of this debate. DD has much better showings than Shang has, if you dont want to address it fine.


Originally posted by inamilist

So what was the value in even bringing any of this back up. We agree that frank is good but not as good as top tier fighters. We agree that he would put up a good fight against Chi, and we agree chi would eventually take a majority.

Are you really that interested in the difference between 5-6/10 and 7-8/10?

Well 8-10 I think is unreasonable, thats a curbstomp. Alot of people in this thread are using words like curbstomp and saying Shang Chi is will beat Frank 9/10, 10/10 and saying things like Shang will curbstomp Frank.

They have not provided any evidence and are ignoring Frank's history.


Originally posted by capt it up
.

Shang-chi would stomp frank in h2h combat stop being stupid.

This is what I mean, Shang wil stomp Frank.? So in other words hes not going to put up a good fight? Are you actually going to provide some evidence instead of just talking. Saying that Shang is going to stomp Frank doesnt prove anything.



Originally posted by Hercules
No offense and I can see your mad, but I wouldn't say that scan was saying curbstomp to me, it looked like they both got a hit in each.

Shang may have not got up after that, I don't know as I haven't see the next page but, from your scan it looks like Shang nails Logan and Logan hits him right back.

Wolverine has a lot of advantages over Punisher, healing factor, enhanced strength, speed, senses, 100 years of training etc etc.

So Wolverine beating Shang doesn't follow that hes not that good a fighter, I would and have said from the begining that Frank will put up one hell of a fight and make a good showing, maybe even nick a few wins.

but the majority goes to Shang imho.

Im not talking about Frank Vs Wolverine were talking about Frank vs Shang.

DD has good showings against Wolverine and so does Frank, how comes all of a sudden Shang cant beat Wolverine, but despite this hes going to thrash Frank?



Originally posted by Soljer
Cosigned. On all accounts.

Are you actually going to provide some evidence and stop talking?

Shang Chi will beat Frank 10/10.

Shang will curbstomp Frank.

Originally posted by Soljer
Shang Chi will beat Frank 10/10.

Shang will curbstomp Frank.

Evidence?

Originally posted by Soljer
Shang Chi will beat Frank 10/10.

Shang will curbstomp Frank.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/861/yobarberdy8xm4.th.jpg

Oh yeah heres the rest of the fight Shang gets curbstomped.

Originally posted by Alfheim


Im not talking about Frank Vs Wolverine were talking about Frank vs Shang.

DD has good showings against Wolverine and so does Frank, how comes all of a sudden Shang cant beat Wolverine, but despite this hes going to thrash Frank?


Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

Alright, this is probably the most poiniant piece of evidence I could find without aquiring all the Chi comics written in the 70s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOx9vRVVRQI

Mirko Cro Cop vs Bob Sapp

I'll pst a real reply in a bit, but I think this video is pretty much exactly what people are saying about this fight. Sapp is a good, ruthless and talented fighter. He soaks damage like nobody can (he uses his face to block shots frequently) and put a good hurt on most people he fights. Cro Cop is smaller, faster, and has way more experience and expertise in his style of fighting.

Originally posted by Hercules
Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

He has a man-crush on Frank, it's not his fault.. It's the hormones.

Agreed, Shang 7/10.

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/861/yobarberdy8xm4.th.jpg

Oh yeah heres the rest of the fight Shang gets curbstomped.

Your point?

Wolverine > Shang Chi >>>>>> Frank Castle.

Originally posted by Hercules
Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

Well basically You said the fact that Shang got beaten by Wolverine isnt a bad thing. My point is both DD and Frank have good showings aginst Wolverine, why would Frank only got a few wins?

Well its like this. Its fair to belive that Shang will get the majority but I think 8/10 or above is unreasonale. Even if you havent used the word thrash alot of people seem to think Shang will.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait because Frank gets battered by Matt means Chi destroys Frank.

The same DD that puts Logan down and Logan easily dispatched Chi.

Or how about the same Chi that lost the the Cat and the Cat got easily owned by Taskmaster.


ABC logic does not work. Don't get me wrong Chi wins but there sure is a lot of Chi wanking in this thread.

That sums up my point better.

Originally posted by "V"
He has a man-crush on Frank, it's not his fault.. It's the hormones.

Agreed, Shang 7/10.

Shesssh gimme a break, will ya. I can go with 7/10.

Originally posted by inamilist
Alright, this is probably the most poiniant piece of evidence I could find without aquiring all the Chi comics written in the 70s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOx9vRVVRQI

Mirko Cro Cop vs Bob Sapp

I'll pst a real reply in a bit, but I think this video is pretty much exactly what people are saying about this fight. Sapp is a good, ruthless and talented fighter. He soaks damage like nobody can (he uses his face to block shots frequently) and put a good hurt on most people he fights. Cro Cop is smaller, faster, and has way more experience and expertise in his style of fighting.

Calling Sapp a "talented" fighter is pushing it. and he has a jaw made of Glass but I can see what your saying.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well basically You said the fact that Shang got beaten by Wolverine isnt a bad thing. My point is both DD and Frank have good showings aginst Wolverine, why would Frank only got a few wins?

Well its like this. Its fair to belive that Shang will get the majority but I think 8/10 or above is unreasonale. Even if you havent used the word thrash alot of people seem to think Shang will.

This is why I gave Shang 7/10, I think 8/10 and above is a little severe too.

Originally posted by Hercules
This is why I gave Shang 7/10, I think 8/10 and above is a little severe too.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Hercules
Calling Sapp a "talented" fighter is pushing it. and he has a jaw made of Glass but I can see what your saying.

I meant "talented" in a relative sense. Compared to other Pro mixed MA competitors he is pretty worthless, but I would image he could take on anyone of "average" fighting ability. So, imho, good comparison to the punisher here.

Glass jaw? I don't know... I don't follow this type of stuff as much as I'd like to, but I've seen him last for a good amount of time against much more talented opponents by just soaking it up...

Originally posted by inamilist
I meant "talented" in a relative sense. Compared to other Pro mixed MA competitors he is pretty worthless, but I would image he could take on anyone of "average" fighting ability. So, imho, good comparison to the punisher here.

Glass jaw? I don't know... I don't follow this type of stuff as much as I'd like to, but I've seen him last for a good amount of time against much more talented opponents by just soaking it up...

No I agree, I could see your point entirely, he can take a lot of shots to the head and face but if you get a good one on the Jaw he falls like a sack of spuds.

Look at the Cro Cop fight you posted, one shot on the button and it was bye bye time for Sapp.

Pretty good anyalsis on the whole though I'm just not a big Sapp fan so couldn't resist!

Originally posted by Hercules
No I agree, I could see your point entirely, he can take a lot of shots to the head and face but if you get a good one on the Jaw he falls like a sack of spuds.

Look at the Cro Cop fight you posted, one shot on the button and it was bye bye time for Sapp.

Pretty good anyalsis on the whole though I'm just not a big Sapp fan so couldn't resist!



I hear you

I love the novelty of having him fight, but no, I wouldn't say I'm a sapp fan either

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok metal im well and truly p***ed off with you right now, but i'll try to be as civil as possible, so lets try and discuss this like civilsed gentlemen.

I know you said you like me, but sometimes I find debating with you really infuriating. I know myself that I can over react and assume people are talking rubbish, but to be quite honest recently I dont think ive been too bad.

When I debate with you I dont think you really listen to anything I have to say and every time I have scans you've always got something negative to say about it.

I want you to sit back a minute and imagine your me and see how annoying this is.

First of all I give you a set of scans which show a good showing with Frank vs DD. What do you say? Its a lucky shot. Please help me out here in the Black Panther vs Iron fist thread you said this:



I dont understand this why cant that fight be taken as evidence to prove that Frank isnt lightyears behind Shang? Already you said that you can take one piece of evidence, but not in this case.

The thing that winds me up about you is that when it comes to analysing my scans the glass is always half empty. Lets think about this, the fight was about 7 pages long...I think. At any rate it was a long fight, if it was just luck Frank would have hit DD with a lucky shot and taken him down. Dont you think its unlikely that a vastly inferior fighter would last that long against DD?

That was a viable way of looking at those scans, but nooooo your only response was its a lucky fight.

Ok then there are my second scans. Do I get a response....no. I dont get it DD doesnt even hit Frank once in that fight. Frank hits DD twice and manages to throw DD over his back. Dont you think at least you should have the etiquette to at least address the scans?

Ok third scans Frank is fighting Bullseye and the fight ends with Frank choking the life out of Bullseye. Bullseye has beaten Elecktra before, right? I would have thought that Elecktra would put up a good fight against Shang.

Metal im not trying to offend you but half of the time I feel like im talking to a brick wall. DD could probably beat Shang Chi and take a majority, but Frank has good showings against him. Bullseye and Elecktra wouldnt do badly either and Frank has beaten Bullseye. So I really really really dont understand how you should be offended.

I should be offended because ive gone to the effort of producing the scans you havent given me anything. C'mon be honest what have you given to this debate, nothing. Any scans, no. Any explanations, no. Im producing all the evidence you're giving me nothing and you're getting pissed off with me?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1591/yobarberkp5zl3.th.jpg

Look at the above scans. Shang Chi is such a good fighter that he gets curbstomped by Wolverine. If Shang Chi is so good why didnt he put up a better fight?

Now this statement winds me up.



This is the same **** you say about Cap. You say you like Cap and you think hes great, I then find you saying that you're tired of his jobber aura. Does that sound like somebody who thinks that Cap is great? Now im sure you said it I just cant find the quote.

You know what the real killer is though? You like Cap so much you came to the Cap respect thread and started arguing over minor details. In all fairness you did apologise but basically I had to ask you to leave.

My point is this, you say you think characters are incredible but what you say and what you do contradicts it. Hell you've never contributed anything positive to the Cap thread. Xmarksthespot hates Cap and hes contributed more to the thread. You like Cap so much the only thing you contributed to the Cap respect thread is negativity and your doing the same thing to Punisher.

Why are throwing a fit at me? I said nothing mean to you. I was only telling you how I interpretted your post.

Alfheim, apprently you won't believe that I actually read, understand, and actually respond to your posts unless I get a webcam so you can watch me do it.

I never ignore your posts. Why should I? The whole point is to debate. Why would I debate not knowing what I'm getting into?

I've already apologized about that Cap Respect thing. It doesn't change the fact that I like Cap a lot, he's one of my favorites. I don't know why you think just because I question some things that he does means that I can't like him.

Same goes for Frank. Frank is a damn hardcore badass, and I love him. But I know his limitations.

I agree that DD would take Shang, and that's because of his superhuman powers (superhuman senses, radar sense).

I would love to produce scans for you. Unfortunately, I don't own a Shang Chi comic. I have, however, learned a lot about him over the past two years, I've seen almost all of his feats in his respect thread, and I've seen him actually perform in the recent "Heroes for Hire". Talk to a bigger Shang fan than myself, I'm sure they'll produce the scans you so desire.

My point is, I've read your posts, I've seen your scans. And while Frank is VERY impressive, it's just not impressive enough to take down Shang Chi (master of all kung-fu ).

Shang wins this fight NEARLY everytime.

Originally posted by Soljer
Your point?

Wolverine > Shang Chi >>>>>> Frank Castle.

And that's mostly because of Logan's physical enhancements over Shang. Still doesn't help Frank here.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why are throwing a fit at me? I said nothing mean to you. I was only telling you how I interpretted your post.

Well ok, you said I was pissing you off. You basically said I was acting like I was the only one who knew anything about Frank. Im getting pissed off because you did not respond to the scans and did not provide any evidence.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I've already apologized about that Cap Respect thing. It doesn't change the fact that I like Cap a lot, he's one of my favorites. I don't know why you think just because I question some things that he does means that I can't like him.

If you say im sick of Caps jobber aura does that sound like your into Cap?

Yeah I know you apologised but its a combination of things that have been winding me up. That does not change the fact that the only thing you contributed to the thread was negative. If you were really into him you would have added something positive.

Like I said you say you like Cap but your actions dont back your words. Its like the same thing here.


Originally posted by Metalmanx

Same goes for Frank. Frank is a damn hardcore badass, and I love him. But I know his limitations.

Meh.


Originally posted by Metalmanx

I agree that DD would take Shang, and that's because of his superhuman powers (superhuman senses, radar sense).

Yeah and considering Frank has bust up DD badly why would Shang beat Frank 9/10?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I would love to produce scans for you. Unfortunately, I don't own a Shang Chi comic. I have, however, learned a lot about him over the past two years, I've seen almost all of his feats in his respect thread, and I've seen him actually perform in the recent "Heroes for Hire". Talk to a bigger Shang fan than myself, I'm sure they'll produce the scans you so desire.

Thats not an excuse really even if you dont have scans you an describe his feats and achievements. Just saying he beats Frank 9/10 doesnt prove anything.

Ive seens some fights with him in heroes for hire and I have seen some of his old fights. I still dont see how Shang beast Frank 9/10.

Hell you can even go to the civil war scans and get some.

Basically im doing all the work here and I still think I had a right to bite your head off.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

My point is, I've read your posts, I've seen your scans. And while Frank is VERY impressive, it's just not impressive enough to take down Shang Chi (master of all kung-fu ).

Shang wins this fight NEARLY everytime.

Still that doesnt change anything. You still have not provided any evidence. As I have said before even if you dont have scans you can say some of the stuff he has done.

Furthermore on one thread you argued that Wolverine could be taken out with a hit to the nuts like Frank did to beat Wolverine. I got scans of Shang getting curbstomped by Wolverine and now your arguing shang 9/10?

So punisher can h2h a guy who has chi amping ability to make all his stats superhuman. Not to mention the fact he is far more skilled at fighting then punisher.


Also your arguement is about wolverine pwn shang-chi. You do realize Logan would pwn punisher even worse in h2h fight

Originally posted by capt it up
So punisher can h2h a guy who has chi amping ability to make all his stats superhuman. Not to mention the fact he is far more skilled at fighting then punisher.

Well show me some feats. Tell me whats he done. DD has superhuman feats as well but Frank has beaten him up badly.

Originally posted by capt it up

Also your arguement is about wolverine pwn shang-chi. You do realize Logan would pwn punisher even worse in h2h fight

Stop talking about Wolverine? the fight is Shang vs Frank. I dont think Frank can beat Wolverine but if Shang is gonna get his ass kicked that bad by him whats the big deal?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well show me some feats. Tell me whats he done. DD has superhuman feats as well but Frank has beaten him up badly.



Stop talking about Wolverine? the fight is Shang vs Frank. I dont think Frank can beat Wolverine but if Shang is gonna get his ass kicked that bad by him whats the big deal?

I am not a shang-chi collector.



your arguement is that since logan pwned shang-chi that means punisher can take shang-chi? That faulty logic since punisher would be pwned far worse

Originally posted by capt it up
I am not a shang-chi collector.

Your not a shang collector but you still think Shang beats Frank 10/10. Then people were wondering why I was getting pissed off.


Originally posted by capt it up

your arguement is that since logan pwned shang-chi that means punisher can take shang-chi? That faulty logic since punisher would be pwned far worse

Well hell DD has taken Wolverine out before, if Shang is so good why cant he do better and Frank has good showings against DD.

What this boils down to is Frank Vs Wolverine, this discusion is Frank Vs Shang get it into your head and stop diverting the thread back to Frank Vs Wolverine.

You cant provide any proof for Shang beating Frank 10/10, but you want to divert the thread back to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Your not a shang collector but you still thik Shang beats FRank 10/10. Then people were wonderign why I was getting pissed off.
I have read him and he can amp his stats to superhuman levels. His fighting skills are top tier. I can name feats I just don't have the issues.




Originally posted by Alfheim
Well hell DD has taken Wolverine out before, if Shang is so good why cant he do better and Frank has good showings against DD.
It was PIS I ahev proven it PIS. DD has never taken out Logan in a nin pis fight. so there goes that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What this boils down to is Frank Vs Wolverine, this discusion is Frank Vs Shang get into your head and stop divering the thread back to Frank Vs Wolverine.
your whole debate is based on the fact shang-chi lost to wolverine. Your the one that making this about wolverine. The point is Wolverine would drop punisher far easier so your whole shang-chi got pwned by wolevrien arguement is useless.



by the way I am a huge punisher collector. I more then likly own more issues then you do of him.

Originally posted by capt it up
I have read him and he can amp his stats to superhuman levels. His fighting skills are top tier. I can name feats I just don't have the issues.


Yeah hes so good he got pawned by Wolverine and Taskmaster. Whats the point of having superhuman stats when you can only hit Wolverine once. Hell DD would probably kick his ass.



Originally posted by capt it up

It was PIS I ahev proven it PIS. DD has never taken out Logan in a nin pis fight. so there goes that.

Even if it was PIS DD could still give Wolverine a good fight.

Originally posted by capt it up

your whole debate is based on the fact shang-chi lost to wolverine. Your the one that making this about wolverine. The point is Wolverine would drop punisher far easier so your whole shang-chi got pwned by wolevrien arguement is useless.

Or DD is a better fighter than Shang has better showings than Shang and would do better against Wolverine.



Originally posted by capt it up

by the way I am a huge punisher collector. I more then likly own more issues then you do of him.

Whatever.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah hes so good he got pawned by Wolverine and Taskmaster. Whats the point of having superhuman stats when you can only hit Wolverine once. Hell DD would probably kick his ass.





Even if it was PIS DD could still give Wolverine a good fight.



Or DD is a better fighter than Shang has better showings than Shang and would do better against Wolverine.





Whatever.

ya you were saying?
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg

your whole argument is that shang-chi got pwned by logan and punisher did good vs DD once or twice so that means punihser is>>>shang-chi? Yet DD got handled just as badly so there goes your arguement

Originally posted by capt it up
ya you were saying?
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg

You probably know about the DD scans were DD takes out Wolverine with one shot. So that doesnt prove anything. In my opinion both fights are PIS and the fights dont last long enough.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You probably know about the DD scans were DD takes out Wolverine with one shot. So that doesnt prove anything. In my opinion both fights are PIS and the fights dont last long enough.

The one shot is PIS. The reason it PIS is logan taken far worse to the same spot with out falter.


There was nothing PIS about that fight when logan beats DD. It is quite with in wolverine ability to do so. Is it a likyl out come? No however is is a possiable out come yes it is.


was the shang-chi fight pis no it was well with in logan abilites to do so. Does that mean that is a likly out come normally? No it not put it is a possiable out come.



there goes your whole debate

Originally posted by capt it up
The one shot is PIS. The reason it PIS is logan taken far worse to the same spot with out falter.

Yeah and he taken far less as well. DD strikes have been enough to shatter diamond and knock out a 80 ton Mr Hyde with one shot.

Sabretooth has knocked out Wolverine but putting pressure on his neck. If DD can shatter diamond and he aims for the right spot he could replicate what Sabretooth did to Wolverine, not by strangulation but by a nerve strike.

Originally posted by capt it up

There was nothing PIS about that fight when logan beats DD. It is quite with in wolverine ability to do so. Is it a likyl out come? No however is is a possiable out come yes it is.

BS, DD has been able to dodge a pissed off Spiderman and all of a sudden Wolverine takes DD out just like that. Hypocrisy.


Originally posted by capt it up

was the shang-chi fight pis no it was well with in logan abilites to do so. Does that mean that is a likly out come normally? No it not put it is a possiable out come.

yeah thats why he got hit in the nutsack by the Punisher


Originally posted by capt it up


there goes your whole debate

Just look above.

I think Punisher is being a little underrated here. He can beat Shang-Chi. Maybe not a majority but he can give him a fight.

Originally posted by YFZ 350
I think Punisher is being a little underrated here. He can beat Shang-Chi. Maybe not a majority but he can give him a fight.

Thank you!

No kidding... why don't you talk about him in Capt's spite thread.

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
No kidding... why don't you talk about him in Capt's spite thread.

When did Wolverine (without claws, healing factor or adamantium) VS Punisher turn into a spite thread? thats tripe.

Originally posted by "V"
When did Wolverine (without claws, healing factor or adamantium) VS Punisher turn into a spite thread? thats tripe.

Yeah but he only did that afterwards. I start a thread about frank vs Shang. So capt has to start a thread with Wolverine vs Punisher because he feels that threatens Wolverines status at h2h...stupid.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but he only did that afterwards. I start a thread about frank vs Shang. So capt has to start a thread with Wolverine vs Punisher because he feels that threatens Wolverines status at h2h...stupid.

He's entitled to make any thread he wants to, if you were to watch the versus forum you would realise this happens all the time and that's how the trends occur. Alot of threads are made because people see another one and think "wait, how would X do against him/her?".

Originally posted by "V"
He's entitled to make any thread he wants to, if you were to watch the versus forum you would realise this happens all the time and that's how the trends occur. Alot of threads are made because people see another one and think "wait, how would X do against him/her?".

True but its slightly irritating when you have a thread about Shang and Punisher and he turns into a Wolverine vs thread. Basically capt keeps going over the same thing again and again, you look at him in other threads not to do with Wolverine and Wolverine comes up. Hes enttiled to do it but hes obsessive. As somebody one said "Do you scan the forums looking for the words healing factor so you can start a debate with them?"

Furthermore it started as a spite thread, he only changed it because I and others complained.

Further, furthermore after he decided to take away Wolverines powers he forgot that he had done it and was still arguing that Wolverine had enhanced durability even after he had taken away wolverines healing factor and adamantuim. Talk about obssessive.

Originally posted by Alfheim
True but its slightly irritating when you have a thread about Shang and Punisher and he turns into a Wolverine vs thread. Basically capt keeps going over the same thing again and again, you look at him in other threads not to do with Wolverine and Wolverine comes up. Hes enttiled to do it but hes obsessive. As somebody one said "Do you scan the forums looking for the words healing factor so you can start a debate with them?"

Furthermore it started as a spite thread, he only changed it because I and others complained.

Actually he changed it because I suggested he took away the claws and healing factor to make it far more interesting.

I understand your annoyance, but he's a fan of the character it's not really his fault is it? You may tire of him talking about it alot but he obviously finds it rather interesting still, you could of asked him not to talk about Wolverine or to stay on topic (but it's true, you did bring up the Shang/Wolverine thing and tried to use it in your defence), it doesnt matter. Let's get back on topic now.

Originally posted by "V"
Actually he changed it because I suggested he took away the claws and healing factor to make it far more interesting.

Ok, but remember it did start as a spite thread. Besides I dont know why your sticking up for him so much you werent exactly very civil to me either "It must be the hormones", not very polite is it?

Originally posted by "V"

you could of asked him not to talk about Wolverine or to stay on topic


Yeah I did.

Originally posted by "V"

(but it's true, you did bring up the Shang/Wolverine thing and tried to use it in your defence),

Yeah but then you completely convert the whole of the thread to a Wolverine discussion and then starting up a spite thread is reasonable?

Yeah you do need sometimes to discuss other superheroes but he completely lost the plot.


Originally posted by "V"

it doesnt matter. Let's get back on topic now.

Ok but are you going to be more civil as well?

Originally posted by "V"
He's entitled to make any thread he wants to, if you were to watch the versus forum you would realise this happens all the time and that's how the trends occur. Alot of threads are made because people see another one and think "wait, how would X do against him/her?".

Actually, he did it (as stated) because he "Wanted to see Alfheim say punisher can win". It was a complete spite against Alfheim.

Originally posted by YFZ 350
I think Punisher is being a little underrated here. He can beat Shang-Chi. Maybe not a majority but he can give him a fight.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok, but remember it did start as a spite thread. Besides I dont know why your sticking up for him so much you werent exactly very civil to me either "It must be the hormones", not very polite is it?



Yeah I did.



Yeah but then you completely convert the whole of the thread to a Wolverine discussion and then starting up a spite thread is reasonable?

Yeah you do need sometimes to discuss other superheroes but he completely lost the plot.




Ok but are you going to be more civil as well?

When have I been uncivil to you? I merely joke that you have a man crush to explain your liking the character so much, if I was to be uncivil about it I would ramble on about fanboyism etc. but I'm not, everybody has a favourite character

Why am I sticking up for him? Because I need to do 10 good deeds a day, or i'll die.

And Rick, if he made the thread to see if Alfheim would say Punisher would say he would win I still don't see that as a spite thread. If it was something like Thor vs Punisher than maybe, but in the thread Punisher still had a good chance at winning. He also changed it upon demand, so It's hardly a spite thread anymore if it ever was one.

Originally posted by "V"
When have I been uncivil to you? I merely joke that you have a man crush to explain your liking the character so much, if I was to be uncivil about it I would ramble on about fanboyism etc. but I'm not, everybody has a favourite character

Why am I sticking up for him? Because I need to do 10 good deeds a day, or i'll die.

And Rick, if he made the thread to see if Alfheim would say Punisher would say he would win I still don't see that as a spite thread. If it was something like Thor vs Punisher than maybe, but in the thread Punisher still had a good chance at winning. He also changed it upon demand, so It's hardly a spite thread anymore if it ever was one.

For the Record, I didn't say it was a spite thread against Punisher, I said it was a spite thread against Alfheim.

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
For the Record, I didn't say it was a spite thread against Punisher, I said it was a spite thread against Alfheim.

Fair enough, but I still see little reason to complain. Alfheim complains that Wolverine is taking over his thread, Capt makes a thread where the discussion would be on topic. No problemo.

The problem getting scans for Shang Chi, without owning the comics and scanning them yourself is he is such an obscure character, apart from his boom period in the 70's finding stuff on the net is next to impossible.

I have found scans of all his covers from the "master of Kung Fu" series, one of which shows him blocking Shuriken stars with his hands.

I also found some scans of him fighting some six armed dude who he punched so hard he turned to dust.

But thats about it, he is listed at the rpg website as being able to amp his stats with chi, this would put his agility up there with DD and his strength at about class 1.

But other than that the cupboard is bare! he is listed as having ultimate mastery of Kung Fu and hopefully Heroes for Hire and the film that is in the works will bring him into the limelight a bit more.

Hes the type of character you might read in the comic shop but not buy the issue, thats the problem with getting scans together, you know what hes capable of but you never actually buy the issue.

So if anyone has any scans to start a respect thread, now is the time!

Originally posted by Hercules
The problem getting scans for Shang Chi, without owning the comics and scanning them yourself is he is such an obscure character, apart from his boom period in the 70's finding stuff on the net is next to impossible.

I have found scans of all his covers from the "master of Kung Fu" series, one of which shows him blocking Shuriken stars with his hands.

I also found some scans of him fighting some six armed dude who he punched so hard he turned to dust.

But thats about it, he is listed at the rpg website as being able to amp his stats with chi, this would put his agility up there with DD and his strength at about class 1.

But other than that the cupboard is bare! he is listed as having ultimate mastery of Kung Fu and hopefully Heroes for Hire and the film that is in the works will bring him into the limelight a bit more.

Hes the type of character you might read in the comic shop but not buy the issue, thats the problem with getting scans together, you know what hes capable of but you never actually buy the issue.

So if anyone has any scans to start a respect thread, now is the time!

The irony is im the only one who has got working scans in the shang chi respect thread. I was blasting high scholar (im not having a go at him, obvoulsy he has a good reason) because his scans dont work.

Only a couple of those scans are mine, the rest I got from the civil war scans on this forum. So you can see why I got pissed. If I can find scans of shang chi on this forum, why cant everybody else?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432512&highlight=respect+shang+chi

Are you still arguing about DD vs. Wolverine on this page? Punisher can't even get respect on his own vs. thread.

Originally posted by jgiant
Are you still arguing about DD vs. Wolverine on this page? Punisher can't even get respect on his own vs. thread.

You noticed that, too, eh?

Originally posted by jgiant
Are you still arguing about DD vs. Wolverine on this page? Punisher can't even get respect on his own vs. thread.
he deserve non in this fight. alf giving punisher far mroe credit then he should ever be due.


punisher can't take shang-chi in h2h combat he freaking out of his mind

Bump.

Shang Chi 8-9/10.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This should be interesting... The Punisher vs Shang Chi H2H. No weapons. The fight takes place on a rooftop in Hell's Kitchen.

Punisher gets his anus beat down.

Originally posted by batdude123
Punisher gets his anus beat down.

I think he's more likely to get it ripped out than beaten down...

Originally posted by Soljer
I think he's more likely to get it ripped out than beaten down...

And then has it shoved down his throat... in turn, he literally shits out his anus.

Originally posted by batdude123
And then has it shoved down his throat... in turn, he literally shits out his anus.

Well, that's unpleasant.

That's how Shang Chi likes it. He's a kinky *****.

Punisher wills Shang to die. *bang*

Frank 10/10.

Not if Shang anally rapes Frank first.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not if Shang anally rapes Frank first. Even if that's true... Frank wills Shang's penis out of his anus, and wills Shang to drop.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Even if that's true... Frank wills Shang's penis out of his anus, and wills Shang to drop.

Not if Frank likes it. srug

Originally posted by batdude123
Not if Frank likes it. srug Got me.

Still though... I don't think Shang can win by buttf*cking Frank... unless he's like donkey punching him as well.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Got me.

Still though... I don't think Shang can win by buttf*cking Frank... unless he's like donkey punching him as well.

Pressure point donkey strikes ftw.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pressure point donkey strikes ftw. As soon as that happens, Frank wills through it, and crushes Shang's penis.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
As soon as that happens, Frank wills through it, and crushes Shang's penis.

Not if he's being pleasured at the same time.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not if he's being pleasured at the same time. It cancels each other out I believe... and Frank doesn't look like he's into getting spanked, so it wouldn't be pleasurable for him getting super donkey punched, as well.

And at that point, Frank has done surgery on himself, so... you do the math.

*bump*

Don't know why you wanted to bump this, PZ. I love Frank, but he's severely outclassed here.

Shang Chi 10/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Don't know why you wanted to bump this, PZ. I love Frank, but he's severely outclassed here.

Shang Chi 10/10.

shang-chi beats the ever living shit out of frank.