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Ok, I searched, nothing came up. (Though it has probably been done before).

Who is the best LIGHTSABER user here? Who would win in a duel with just their lightsaber skills and no force powers?

ESB Vader and ROTS Anakin!

ROTS Anakin is probably the best duelist that ever lived up until ROTJ, then Luke becomes the best. Anakin is better then Vader, faster, has a bigger connection to the Force and therefore he can sense and predict lightsaber strikes better then anyone else.

May be so (I would put Yoda above ROTS Anakin in saber battle), but Vader has many things to his advantage as well...


He is calmer, knows more about his younger self, can utilize weak points.
He has mastered his style (and other ones as well) to a higher degree.
More experience in duelling.

Now I'm not saying Vader wins, but I just wanted to state some of his advantages.

Anakin Skywalker versus Vader? Hmm, pretty hard battle. I hear Anakin was pretty good, even wtfpwned Cin Drallig and Count Dooku. Though Vader is strong enough to pick up a dude with one arm, so perhaps he could just beat the blade out of Anakin Skywalkers hand!
Vader also perfected the same lightsaber form Anakin Skywalker did and mastered it fully, he also defeated Darth Obi Wan who defeated Anakin and we know age does not matter in star wars.

Come to think about it, Vader and Anakin are very alike. Hmm.. Pretty weird..

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin is probably the best duelist that ever lived up until ROTJ, then Luke becomes the best. Anakin is better then Vader, faster, has a bigger connection to the Force and therefore he can sense and predict lightsaber strikes better then anyone else.

Anakin would > vader in saber combat but a stronger connection to the force? sorry vaders force mastery > anakins and so does vaders force skill, however this is a light saber duel ONLY so anakin > vader in pure saber combat. And sense saber strikes better than anybody else?

Sry that comes under precognition which is under force category which vader has the upperhand.

If this is crystal clear minded anakin, vaders fuked and dont forget vader can use psychology to get anakin out of that state and may be able to defeat him, notice the word "may". i did not say vader will win, only a possibility

anakins advantage is his speed and agility, vaders advantage is in his strength and knowledge of his former self.
Like kamikz said, he knows his former self's weaknesses.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Anakin would > vader in saber combat but a stronger connection to the force? sorry vaders force mastery > anakins and so does vaders force skill, however this is a light saber duel ONLY so anakin > vader in pure saber combat. And sense saber strikes better than anybody else?

Sry that comes under precognition which is under force category which vader has the upperhand.

If this is crystal clear minded anakin, vaders fuked and dont forget vader can use psychology to get anakin out of that state and may be able to defeat him, notice the word "may". i did not say vader will win, only a possibility

anakins advantage is his speed and agility, vaders advantage is in his strength and knowledge of his former self.
Like kamikz said, he knows his former self's weaknesses.

Anakin has a better connection to the Force, i didn't say he has better Force powers, Vader lost a huge connection to the Force on Mustafar and yes he can sense(predicts danger because of the Force) better then anyone else, because he has mastered thelightsaber combat and can channel his incredible connection to the Force in his fights with lightsaber, but he cant channel it to his Force powers, because, he hasn't mastered them.

So we agree, that Anakin is better in swordplay and Vader has better Force powers.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin has a better connection to the Force, i didn't say he has better Force powers, Vader lost a huge connection to the Force on Mustafar and yes he can sense(predicts danger because of the Force) better then anyone else, because he has mastered thelightsaber combat and can channel his incredible connection to the Force in his fights with lightsaber, but he cant channel it to his Force powers, because, he hasn't mastered them.

So we agree, that Anakin is better in swordplay and Vader has better Force powers. You mean potential? Yes vader did lose alot of potential on mustafar but it did not effect his ability to control the darkside and even being crippled, vader is a formidable opponent with the lightsaber.

Do not forget vader had also added other lightsaber forms to his already-mastered djem so to compensate him for his lack of speed.

Lastly vader has knowledge on his former self as kamikz mentioned

Vader completely shut out everything about his former self from his mind shortly after Purge; his identity, his memories, and everything about his former self (which would include the way he fights), and considering that 22 years have gone by since Vader's mutilation at Mustafar for ESB Vader, I really don't see how he's supposed to know how his former self fights to such an intense degree as you guys seem to think.

He was trying, yeah, but he could never forget who he actually was.

Seeing how Vader actually expanded on his fighting style, I couldn't possibly see how he could've started from scratch....

And you would never forget the dumbest move in your life, the one who cost Vader everything. He would know how he acted, he would take advantage of these things for sure...

Here its probably Vader. Anakin was still very raw in his abilities. As Vader he is much more powerful.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Here its probably Vader. Anakin was still very raw in his abilities. As Vader he is much more powerful.
Are you serious?

Anakin ROTS will defeat ESB Vader in combat.

Vader himself said that he is less powerful then he used to be in ROTS days.

Anakin is faster, has betetr reflexes, Vader had more strength but Anakin's strong, too, Anakin has more flexibility and he bested Dooku, who's a great swordsman and even rivaled Yoda. Vader was only on par with ANH Kenobi, and Anakin is stronger than the more powerful ROTS Kenobi. Plus he's a level 9 swordsman, same as ROTS Sidious, ESB Vader's only 80% of Sidious and saber combat isn't even ESB Vader's strong point so he'd be even less that 80% of Sidious in saber combat. I don't think Sidious really increased his saber skills between trilogies, just his Force skills, so. Yes, Anakin wins, I'd personally put ESB Vader as a low to middle level 8 swordsman.

Nick Gillard is no canon source, probably not a source at all....

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin is probably the best duelist that ever lived up until ROTJ, then Luke becomes the best. Anakin is better then Vader, faster, has a bigger connection to the Force and therefore he can sense and predict lightsaber strikes better then anyone else.

Hardly. I suppose you forgot about Mace, Sidious, Yoda, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, etc.

It could be argued that Anakin is better than those people. And Gillard is C-Canon.

Vader is physically far more powerful than Anakin (in terms of strength), and Form V relies heavily, and almost entirely on that.
Vader also knows all about Anakin, giving him both an edge in actual combat because he knows his attacks, and a huge ability to play on his emotions.

Vader is much more level headed than his younger self. "It was the maturity of the mind he had sensed that had temporarily confused him."
In reference to Obi Wan sensing Vader. And while I realize that level headedness can't win a fight for you ("Clever and subtle. He could whip any ten clever and subtle Jedi with his lightsaber tied behind his back." - Anakins thoughts), it can certainly be a deciding factor when it is paired with a skilled duelist (Obi Wan's case). (And that quote speaks a lot for Anakins brashness).

From RODV:

"And so Forte and Kulka went in as a team, each of them employing a radically different lightsaber style, determined to off-balance Vader.
But Vader merely stood like a statue, his blade angled toward the ground until the very instant the two Jedi unleashed their assault.
Then, as the three blades joined in scatterings of dazzling light and grating static sounds, he moved.
Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade.
Time and again the two Jedi Knights attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry, and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and Kulka's strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed.
Toying with the Jedi, he grazed Forte on the left shoulder, then on the right thigh; Kulka, he pierced lightly in the abdomen, then shaved away the flesh on the right side of the Ho'Din's face.
Seeing the two Jedi Knights drop to their knees, wincing in pain, Padawan Klossi Anno broke from where she was helping Jambe and Nam engage the stormtroopers and got to Vader one step ahead of Starstone.
Sidestepping, Vader slashed her across the back, sending her sprawling across the balcony; then he whirled on Forte and Kulka just as they were clambering to their feet and decapitated them. From behind Vader came Jambe and Nam, neither of whom was an experienced fighter and both of whom Vader immediately eliminated from the fight, amputating Jambe's right arm, and Nam's right leg.
To her horror, Starstone realized she was suddenly alone with Vader, who immediately signaled his stormtroopers to leave her to him, and to devote themselves to slaughtering the few Wookiees who remained on the tier.
«Now you, Padawan,» he said, as he began to circle her.
Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with aver. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion.
So she retreated, altering her strategy and calming herself. Vader is so tall, so imposing... But perhaps I can get under or inside his guard as Master Chatak did
«Your thoughts give you away, Padawan,» he said in a flash. «You mustn't take the time to think. You must act on impulse. Instead of repressing your anger, call on it! Make use of it to defeat me.»
Starstone feigned an attack, then sidestepped and slashed at him.
Shifting to a one-handed hold on his lightsaber, he parried her blade and lunged forward. She snapped aside in the nick of time, but he kept coming at her, answering her increasingly frantic strikes with harsher ones and driving her inexorably toward the rim of the balcony.
He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back...
She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems. Ducking out from under a broad sweep of the crimson blade, she somersaulted to safety.
But only for a moment."

"Counterattacking, Vader strode through fountaining flames to take the fight to the Wookiees. Crimson blade slashing left and right, he parried blaster bolts and amputated limbs and heads. Caterwauling and howling, showing their fangs and waving their long arms about, the Wookiees tried to hold their positions, but they had never faced anything like him, even in the darkest depths of Kashyyyk's primeval forest.
As tall as some of them, Vader waded in, his lightsaber cleaving intricately carved war shields, sending blasters and bow-casters flying, setting fire to shaggy coats, leaving more than a score of bodies in his wake. "

"Lightsaber grasped in both hands, Vader took a single forward step and performed a lightning-fast underhand sweep that almost knocked Forte's lightsaber from Shryne's grip. Spinning, Shryne regained his balance and raced forward, feinting a diagonal slash from the left, then twisting the blade around to the right and surging forward. The blade might have gotten past Vader's guard, but instead it glanced off the back of his upraised left hand, smoke curling from the black glove. Shryne countered quickly with an upsweep to Vader's neck, but Vader spun to the right, his blade held straight out in front of him as he completed a circle, nearly cutting Shryne in half.
Folding himself at the waist, Shryne skittered backward, parrying a rapid series of curt but powerful slashes. Backflipping out of range, he twisted his body to the right, set the blade over his right shoulder, and rushed forward, hammering away. Vader deflected the blows without altering his stance or giving ground, but in the process left his lower trunk and legs unprotected.
In a blink Shryne dropped into a crouch and pivoted through a turn.
For an instant it seemed that the blade was going to pass clear through Vader's knees, but Vader leapt high, half twisting in midair and coming down behind Shryne."

"Vader closed the distance between them in a heartbeat, slashing left and right with potent vertical strokes, narrowly missing Shryne time and again, but destroying everything touched by the blade. No whirling now; no windmilling or deft lunges. He simply used his bulk and size to remain wedded to the floor. It was an old style, the very opposite of what was said to have been Dooku's style, and Shryne had no defense against it."

"Vader had kept his crimson blade straight out in front of him, manipulating it deftly with wrists only, elbows pressed tightly to his sides. Only when Shryne left him no choice did he shuffle his feet or leap."

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=075

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=032
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=033
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=034

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=065
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=066
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=071
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=072
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=073
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=083
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=084
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=085

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=131
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=132
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=133
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=134
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=135

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=026
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=027

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=49&page=124
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=49&page=125
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=49&page=126

I tried to keep it all melee combat related.

Seeing as how Vader is very skilled, and has knowledge of Anakin, in a place where he can get an advantage (such as Mustafar), I would definitely give the win to Vader, even in a purely saber match (especially seeing as how Obi Wan could do it).

In a battle on flat ground, with no terrain, purely lightsaber, Anakin takes the win, after a tough match.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you serious?

Anakin ROTS will defeat ESB Vader in combat.

Vader himself said that he is less powerful then he used to be in ROTS days. Less powerful? name the source please, clearly the movies and common sense prove vaders force mastery > anakins. And clearly vader was referring to the raw power he once had, what use is super powers when you dont have the mastery of it?

Its like having a nuclear missile and not knowing which button to press,

However i do believe anakin takes down vader in pure saber combat

Originally posted by kamikz
He was trying, yeah, but he could never forget who he actually was.

That's not what I was saying, I was saying that it's very unlikely that Vader would have remembered such intimate knowledge of the way he fought, given that 22 years had gone by, and he had tried as hard as he could to shut his identity out of his mind for all those years.



The style, yes, but knowledge of his former fighting tendencies, and weaknesses and whatnot, very unlikely.



Right, I'm sure he'd be able to push Anakin into making that very same mistake again.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Less powerful? name the source please, clearly the movies and common sense prove vaders force mastery > anakins. And clearly vader was referring to the raw power he once had, what use is super powers when you dont have the mastery of it?

Its like having a nuclear missile and not knowing which button to press,

However i do believe anakin takes down vader in pure saber combat
Darth Vader personal thoughts regarding himself after he became a cyborg: "…you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory…"

Source: ROTS Novelization

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Vader personal thoughts regarding himself after he became a cyborg: "…you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory…"

Source: ROTS Novelization

A few things legend that i would like to point out, that was directly after he just got into his suit. Of course he healed and regained his strength in the force as time went by, Again i didnt see anakin doing anything that impressive with the force other than High level TK which vader had surpassed him in the force in terms of mastery.


Secondly that contradicts george lucas statements. There was a part in the ROTS novel that said something like you are now half of what you once were. Going by what gl said of vader being 80% of sidious, that quote in the novel i read 2 years ago makes it sound like anakin is 160% of sidious that is 60% stronger than he is which also contradicts what gl said that only mace or yoda can take on sidious.

Lastly the RODV novel stated that vaders limitations were mental and not physical that if he were to shake lose his doubts, the incredible power will reawaken in him

EDIT.
And that quote was referring to vaders raw power, anakin had a hell lot of it before he got wounded, but he was unable to do several techniques due to lack of mastery


This is not the case since this is a force fight, so id say anakin takes him in saber combnat

Originally posted by allfg
That's not what I was saying, I was saying that it's very unlikely that Vader would have remembered such intimate knowledge of the way he fought, given that 22 years had gone by, and he had tried as hard as he could to shut his identity out of his mind for all those years.



The style, yes, but knowledge of his former fighting tendencies, and weaknesses and whatnot, very unlikely.



Right, I'm sure he'd be able to push Anakin into making that very same mistake again.


If Vader was in a fight with his younger self, of course he would have a mind advantage. It is not like he has forgotten his past, he doesn't need to know how Anakin fought, cause it is all about Anakin's personality.
He knows himself that his own mistakes when being young was his arrogance and that he was to flashy, that is why he changed.
Needless to say, he has the mind advantage, undoubtedly.

Uh... Obviously, if this is Anakin by ROTS, he has never even MADE that mistake, if he had, it wouldn't be ROTS Anakin, but Darth Vader in the suit after the accident.



And Darth sith, where does it say Gillard is a C canon source?

Darth Vader just needs to hold off Anakin and wait for him to screw up.

From RODV:
"Did Sidious turn you into the monstrosity you've become?"
"No, Shryne," Vader said in a flat voice. "I did this to myself-with some help from Obi-Wan Kenobi."

Vader definitely has the skill and enough advantages to hold him off long enough for Anakin to screw up.

How can Vader fight himself?

Because we have imagination...

"Imagination, no it is not"

"Yeah, it is."

You're acting as if only Vader would be the only person who has those advantages against Anakin, when pretty much everyone who knew Anakin would. I was only arguing against him knowing Anakin's fighting tendencies and weaknesses and the like inside out.



When I said 'again', I didn't quite mean it like that. My point was, you can't argue that Anakin would make that very same mistake every time he's up against someone on par with Obi-Wan. That would be like saying that Mace would always disarm Sidious with a kick if they were to fight, which is ridiculous, because both of these mentioned occurrences are dependant on the specific and unique circumstances that the fight entailed.

I agree, that wouldn't happened every time, Anakin wouldn't make same mistakes in every fight, if he fought like he did Against Dooku he has a very good chance of wining.

If Vader fought Anakin prior to Mustafar he would win.

What do you mean prior to Mustafar, in his clear mind state like with Dooku, maybe , depends on the terrain, where he could use his better Force powers, like trow stuff at him, like he did against Luke in ESB, but in a saber match, Anakin clear minded like against Dooku, Vader loses.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What do you mean prior to Mustafar, in his clear mind state like with Dooku, maybe , depends on the terrain, where he could use his better Force powers, like trow stuff at him, like he did against Luke in ESB, but in a saber match, Anakin clear minded like against Dooku, Vader loses. And dont forget vader knows that anakin in his clear mind is unbeateble and thus would us psychology to change that state of mind, Wookie has madwe it clear psychology is part of vaders aresenal in a fight

This however is a pure lightsaber match not an all out fight becauuse in a force fight and all out fight, vader > anakin, his grip killed some body far far away, he used force crush to take down tanks the size of an ATAT and he was able to shake down buildings in EAW with a technique.


For just a saber match itself, this is a good debate

Originally posted by allfg
You're acting as if only Vader would be the only person who has those advantages against Anakin, when pretty much everyone who knew Anakin would. I was only arguing against him knowing Anakin's fighting tendencies and weaknesses and the like inside out.



When I said 'again', I didn't quite mean it like that. My point was, you can't argue that Anakin would make that very same mistake every time he's up against someone on par with Obi-Wan. That would be like saying that Mace would always disarm Sidious with a kick if they were to fight, which is ridiculous, because both of these mentioned occurrences are dependant on the specific and unique circumstances that the fight entailed.


Being himself would have a major advantage, it's not like "anyone who knows him". You've got to understand that. If you when you were 50 and met yourself at this age (assuming you are not 50), you will understand yourself alot easier than probably any of your friends...




Did I say he would make the exact same mistake?

The thing is, he had been trying to completely shut out his former life for twenty years. Given the huge amount of time that has gone by, and the fact that he was trying desperately to forget everything about himself during those years, which would include his fighting tendencies, I really don't see how he's supposed to know himself better than someone like Obi-Wan or Yoda. Obviously he'd remember that he was somewhat reckless and arrogant, but who knew Anakin and didn't know those things? To argue that he'd retain such intimate information about his former fighting tendencies that would be exclusive to himself begs for more proof, imho.



And you would never forget the dumbest move in your life, the one who cost Vader everything. He would know how he acted, he would take advantage of these things for sure...

This seemed to imply it. If not, my bad.

Again, tried to forget. And then again, if he fought him, he would be able to take advantage of these things. Comon, he actually WAS this person, he knows him better than anyone, even after 20 years, he must remember the time before his accident, like someone who loses his legs, he sure as hell won't forget the time he had legs, if he lost them when he was say 20.


I just meant reckless mistakes, not exactly the same one. Sorry...

The thing is, he actually spent over 20 years completely shutting out his former identity, so sure he would remember what kind of person he was, but I just don't see how he's supposed to know his former self to such a degree that others who knew Anakin wouldn't.

He didn't forget a damn thing. He did shut hims former self out, took on a new identity, got accustomed to the suit, etc, but, he couldn't forget. That's why he went back in the end.

He definitely has a significant advantage, while Anakin knows nothing about him.

Well obviously he couldn't ever forget who he used to be, that's just too damn big to forget, however I find it really hard to believe that he'd be able to retain such specific knowledge about the way he used to fight that others who knew him wouldn't know, considering that would be something he'd most likely naturally forget after 22 years, let alone 22 years where he pretty much forced himself to forget about everything regarding his former identity. I just don't see it, and disagree.

1 other question, why would Vader have a strength advantage over Anakin? Because while his mechanical limbs would be stronger than Anakin's natural physical strength, it would be much easier for Anakin to channel the force into amping up his strength through his muscles and such then it would be for Vader to do so with his artificial limbs. Is it ever actually stated or made obvious, or do people just assume so because he's a cyborg?

No matter how small or big, it's an advantage. He knew about Padme, about Sidious, about his battles to resist the dark side, he knows why Anakin joined in the first place. (Note that ROTS Anakin hasn't done it yet) He could really **** up his mind.

If you disagree, we will just leave it at that, disagreeing....

And so do many others... I wasn't ever arguing that it wasn't an advantage, but not one that others such as Obi and Yoda wouldn't share.

Obi-Wan didn't know exactly why Anakin joined the dark side, or as much info about Palpatine. Obi-Wan does have the largest advantage of all however, knowing Anakin's fighting at the back of his hand.

Well maybe he'd know more than the others about issues such as that, but when I was originally arguing the point, I was more referring to the way he used to fight and such, and not whether he'd have a psychological edge or anything. And really, I don't see how Vader's much better than Anakin when it comes to recklessness, it's not like he was the calmest and most clever fighter either, he was actually pretty reckless himself.

Vader? Maybe he was kind of reckless, but not nearly as reckless as Anakin I think.


Meh, whatever. Point is, Vader does have the pshychological advantage, and mind advantage, no matter how big or small....

He has a psychological advantage, but not enough to automatically win a battle.

Definetly not. It's an advantage though.

Ok, we have cleared that Vader has a psychological advantage, no need to argue this fact, are you listening allfg.

Originally posted by allfg
Well maybe he'd know more than the others about issues such as that, but when I was originally arguing the point, I was more referring to the way he used to fight and such, and not whether he'd have a psychological edge or anything. And really, I don't see how Vader's much better than Anakin when it comes to recklessness, it's not like he was the calmest and most clever fighter either, he was actually pretty reckless himself. Vader being as reckless as anakin ? Sorry friend the EU and highest form of canon proves you wrong

Sorry friend, his fight with the Maul poser proves you wrong.

Originally posted by allfg
Sorry friend, his fight with the Maul poser proves you wrong. Sorry friend , according to what you are so fond of speaking about. Higher canon overwrites the eu, so that means the movies disprove what you said tsk tsk tsk just when will you stop getting pwned


o yea and that "recklass" behaviour was an isolated case, Just how many times did he behave recklass throughout his life as a cyborg? Movies disproves you, novels disprove you, RODV disproves you and the EU disproves you

Vader has enough overall skill, knowledge of Anakins forms and fighting styles, and a big enough psychological advantage to beat Anakin in a duel where, he has a terrain advantage (such as on Mustafar, a hilly or rocky area, Kamino platforms, etc). However, in a closed off space, Anakin wins in a straight up duel (like the duel with Dooku).

Originally posted by Kadesh
Sorry friend , according to what you are so fond of speaking about. Higher canon overwrites the eu, so that means the movies disprove what you said tsk tsk tsk just when will you stop getting pwned


o yea and that "recklass" behaviour was an isolated case, Just how many times did he behave recklass throughout his life as a cyborg? Movies disproves you, novels disprove you, RODV disproves you and the EU disproves you

Kadesh, there's a reason why you have to be at least 13 years to post on these boards, and it's when 6 year olds such as yourself don't know what they're talking about. Movies only overwrite EU when a contradiction occurs, and the movies in no way contradict that Vader might possibly be reckless in such a situation like the one that he was in with Maul. Just because he doesn't show any reckless behavior in the movies (he probably does, I just can't be bothered to rewatch the movies to prove you wrong), it doesn't mean that he wouldn't if pushed to his limits by an actual skilled duelist, such as the Maul wanabee. The fact is, in the movies, he only ever fights old men and farmboys, and was never pushed to the point where reckless action would be necessary. I'm sure if Anakin were to fight OT Luke or Ben Kenobi, he wouldn't be pushed to pull off a reckless menouvre either like in his duel with Obi-Wan, but more likely he would curbstomp their asses in seconds.

You cant say he was reckless from what we don't see. Just how you said that Sidious couldn't be fast because he wasn't fast "on screen", and when it was said he could have been fast when we didn't see, you said that would be false...well same thing, you cant assume he is reckless during the periods that we don't get to see him, and Vader has never shown recklessness on screen or in and books I've read with him in them.

Originally posted by allfg
Kadesh, there's a reason why you have to be at least 13 years to post on these boards, and it's when 6 year olds such as yourself don't know what they're talking about. Movies only overwrite EU when a contradiction occurs, and the movies in no way contradict that Vader might possibly be reckless in such a situation like the one that he was in with Maul.
Sorry friend, its the same like saying "o vader is fast in the eu but it contradicts his slowness in the movies" as you are so keen to point out. Now its a different thing, its his recklessness. Anyways i wouldnt use the excuse of the movies to disprove what you said, i saw his fight with the dark woman, he was not recklass, and i seen many other fights with vader. That incident with maul is an isolated case.
Originally posted by allfg


The fact is, in the movies, he only ever fights old men and farmboys, and was never pushed to the point where reckless action would be necessary. I'm sure if Anakin were to fight OT Luke or Ben Kenobi, he wouldn't be pushed to pull off a reckless menouvre either like in his duel with Obi-Wan, but more likely he would curbstomp their asses in seconds. And just because of one incident where vader got recklass, it mans he would be recklass with all others? Sorry friend, though being recklass, vader still beat maul. And i have read RODV, vader was not being recklass with the fight against the jedi masters. The movies themselves proved vader is not being reckless and i reconmend you actually re-watch the OT because all it does is disproves what you said.