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Both in their prime. Which for Nash is now and Kidd was a few years ago.

I say Kidd cuz he gets triple-doubles!

I think I will take the guy that is a walking triple double has been to two NBA championships and can play defense...

And possibly a Laker

I'm going with Kidd as well. His prime was also before the league made rules that benefit PGs. Plus what Lord Evo mentioned (minus the Laker thing).

Alright let's compare them!

Shooter: Steve
Passer: Jason
Lobb Passer: Jason
Rebounder: Jason
Team Leader: Steve
Defender: Jason
Handles: Steve
Scorer: Steve
Stamina: Jason

there dead even in the end. Feel free to add more categories!

I'm going with Nash, two MVPS, more effective offensively, plays at just a high level as a Kind in a better conference, and way tougher division. unless Kidd has a championship over Nash, I'm going with Steve.

Kidd was higher than Shaq on MVP votes in 2002 which to me is more effective than Nash who could barely beat a lesser Shaq in 2005.

Kidd should have won an MVP that year.

Originally posted by Myth
Kidd was higher than Shaq on MVP votes in 2002 which to me is more effective than Nash who could barely beat a lesser Shaq in 2005.

And Duncan was Higher than both Kidd and Shaq in 02, thats irrelivant, this is Kidd Vs. Nash, Not Shaq vs Kidd vs Nash.

I don't see how it is irrelevant. It shows that Kidd beat out a dominant Shaq while Nash barely beat out a lesser Shaq. Thats an undeniable point in Kidd's favor.

Hmm, maybe irrelevant was a poor choice of words, Kidd beating Shaq out was 5 years ago, Nash is beating out todays best presently, not to mention that Kidd had to be traded to the East to finally get MVP recongition, Nash has always stay put in the West where we all know the level of competetion is much higher.

Originally posted by wuTa
I'm going with Nash, two MVPS, more effective offensively, plays at just a high level as a Kind in a better conference, and way tougher division. unless Kidd has a championship over Nash, I'm going with Steve.

Kobe got robbed......BOTH YEARS!!!

Both? Kobe wasn't deserving two years ago.

He's always deserving.

Nash deserved his first MVP.

But Kobe was right there.

What year are we talking here?

Two years ago.

Let's stay on topic please.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
Nash deserved his first MVP.

It was more by default rather than "deserving."

I beg the differ, he earned them both. If anything, he was more deserving the 2nd time.

He deserved to be in 2nd place that's what he deserved.

Sure he did.

http://www.nba.com/media/suns/nash_0506mvp_index.jpg

A wise man once told me, 3 is better than 2 and a championship means more than a MVP, never caught his name though. http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7450/aadn023yp8.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
A wise man once told me, 3 is better than 2 and a championship means more than a MVP, never caught his name though. http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7450/aadn023yp8.jpg Nice one!

Kobe did deserve it more last year though, honestly.

And so did Dirk, who coincidently deserves it more than anybody this year (Nash better not steal it from him again).

nash is better.. he creates plays and shoots better than kidd. his passes r better and everyone plays better when he is there

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Nice one!

Kobe did deserve it more last year though, honestly.


He is deserving every year (again) but last year he was really robbed.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
A wise man once told me, 3 is better than 2 and a championship means more than a MVP, never caught his name though. http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7450/aadn023yp8.jpg

Was it Shaq, the guy who was the best player, and carried the Lakers to all 3 championship while Kobe played the role of Scottie Pippen.


Originally posted by Darth Martin

Kobe did deserve it more last year though, honestly.

Please, if Kobe played like he did in the playoffs that whole year you might have an argument.

I'd laugh so hard if Nash were to win it again.

Nash is good but is not on the level of Dirk, or Kobe for that matter. So far Dirk deserves it most this season.

Here Here!

Originally posted by Myth
Here Here!

It means I agree

It's hard to actually rate who deserves it the most, but I also think Dirk should get it (that is...if he keeps up the pace).

WE DONT CARE ABOUT DIRK. Omfg, read the topic of this thread.

Okey, well, I still remember that game where they had to go to a triple bonus time, and that match held record for the Knick's most points let in and shot in... Almost everyone was fouled out except Nash vs Kidd, and they were both doing 3 pointers and getting field goals in, but when it came to the last second and it was Kidd's turn to shoot, which would determine who won.. Kidd missed. So currently Nash is much better.

But if we are talking about Kidd 5 years ago... Gee, i'm not sure. The difference isn't THAT big...

I would say Nash. He's a great teamplayer, he's the guy you want with the ball at the 4th quarter. Kidd is more of an assist player, after all.

You mean "overtime" and Nets, not Knicks. Don't confuse the two. And one game doesn't determine who's currently better. Think about their respective teams. Many players fouled out on both sides, but Nash still had Marion, Bell, Barbosa, etc. Kidd only had RJ, who had an off night btw. Carter fouled out, so basically Kidd had to run the show for NJ by himself, while Nash had other teammates who really helped him int the 3 overtimes. Unfair comparison. And anyway, Kidd finished with better stats. He had like 30, 14, and 14. Kidd is just as much of a team player as Nash, and oh yeah, Kidd is 10x better in defense.

We are talking about Kidd 5 years ago.

And who is this "we" you speak of when you said, "WE DONT CARE ABOUT DIRK". You are the only person who seems to not care. And it isn't completely irrelevant because we are saying Nash didn't/doesn't deserve MVP by saying Dirk did better.

C'mon, Nash is arguably the best guard in the leaugue, on one of the best teams in the league where he is the key focal point, and he doesn't/didn't deserve an MVP, right.

Shaq in his prime did better than most MVPs, and deserved more than one MVP, yet noone b!tched when Duncan, KG, and Kidd were getting more votes than him.

^^^replace Iverson for KG that post in the MVP section.

Ok.

Kidd led the Nets to two Finals and lo0st to the SUPERIOR team. Nash has yet to lead the Suns to the Finals.

Another comparison:

Jason Kidd
Richard Jefferson
Kenyon Martin

vs

Steve Nash
Shawn Marion
Amare Stoudamire

Pretty good comparisons.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Kidd led the Nets to two Finals and lo0st to the SUPERIOR team. Nash has yet to lead the Suns to the Finals.

He lead to them to the Finals in the East, not the same as leading a team to the finals in the West.
Originally posted by Darth Martin


Another comparison:

Jason Kidd
Richard Jefferson
Kenyon Martin

vs

Steve Nash
Shawn Marion
Amare Stoudamire

Amare was hurt all year last year and Nash still lead them to a 60+ wins and deep into the Western Conference Finals. How are the Nets doing this year without a healthy Jefferson?

Originally posted by wuTa
Amare was hurt all year last year and Nash still lead them to a 60+ wins and deep into the Western Conference Finals. How are the Nets doing this year without a healthy Jefferson?

That's still not a fair comparison. Losing Jefferson is much bigger blow to the Nets than losing Amare for the Suns. Basically everyone on the Suns team can shoot well, run well, and orchestrate the team chemistry very well. So even with Amare out, the Suns play their fast placed run and gun game successfully. The Nets are the opposite. They have probably the weakest and slowest frontline in the history of the NBA (seriously). So weak that we need a guy like Mikki Moore to average 18 points and 7 boards in order to survive. That means we can't run as well as we want, we always get crushed on the boards, and our interior defense sucks. Not to mention the Suns' bench beats ours by a mile. So it's sorta unfair to compare the teams' standings and use that to prove Nash is better, because we don't know what would result if Kidd and nash switched places.

The Nets' struggle is anything but Kidd's fault. This is his best year as a Net by far, and he is almost averaging a triple-double. The only field I would rank Nash better in is shooting %, even though Kidd's shooting has improved dramatically from last year. And when it all comes down, defense goes to Kidd. Considering the Suns' success, Nash would be a better MVP, but to me, Kidd is an overall better player.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
That's still not a fair comparison. Losing Jefferson is much bigger blow to the Nets than losing Amare for the Suns. Basically everyone on the Suns team can shoot well, run well, and orchestrate the team chemistry very well. So even with Amare out, the Suns play their fast placed run and gun game successfully. The Nets are the opposite. They have probably the weakest and slowest frontline in the history of the NBA (seriously). So weak that we need a guy like Mikki Moore to average 18 points and 7 boards in order to survive. That means we can't run as well as we want, we always get crushed on the boards, and our interior defense sucks. Not to mention the Suns' bench beats ours by a mile. So it's sorta unfair to compare the teams' standings and use that to prove Nash is better, because we don't know what would result if Kidd and nash switched places.

The Nets' struggle is anything but Kidd's fault. This is his best year as a Net by far, and he is almost averaging a triple-double. The only field I would rank Nash better in is shooting %, even though Kidd's shooting has improved dramatically from last year. And when it all comes down, defense goes to Kidd. Considering the Suns' success, Nash would be a better MVP, but to me, Kidd is an overall better player.


punkpunk

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
That's still not a fair comparison. Losing Jefferson is much bigger blow to the Nets than losing Amare for the Suns. Basically everyone on the Suns team can shoot well, run well, and orchestrate the team chemistry very well. So even with Amare out, the Suns play their fast placed run and gun game successfully. The Nets are the opposite. They have probably the weakest and slowest frontline in the history of the NBA (seriously). So weak that we need a guy like Mikki Moore to average 18 points and 7 boards in order to survive. That means we can't run as well as we want, we always get crushed on the boards, and our interior defense sucks. Not to mention the Suns' bench beats ours by a mile. So it's sorta unfair to compare the teams' standings and use that to prove Nash is better, because we don't know what would result if Kidd and nash switched places.

Well alot of this is unfair because somehow Nowitzki, Shaq, and others have made there way in the conversation when this is about Nash vs. Kidd. I'll admit that the Nets have a weaker bench than the Suns, but you can't hold that against Nash considering how the whole team has struggles when Nash has been hurt. If people are going to use how Kidd made it to the Finals (another way of saying how well he did in the season/standings) than its only fair that I can use the argument on how well Nash leads his team in the standings, maybe I just picked the wrong year, even last year, and I believe the year before last Nash lead his team farther than Kidds team in the playoffs, and to a better seed, and Nash pretty much had two different those years.


QUOTE=8442125]Originally posted by RecSpecs110
The Nets' struggle is anything but Kidd's fault. This is his best year as a Net by far, and he is almost averaging a triple-double. The only field I would rank Nash better in is shooting %, even though Kidd's shooting has improved dramatically from last year. And when it all comes down, defense goes to Kidd. Considering the Suns' success, Nash would be a better MVP, but to me, Kidd is an overall better player.

I never said the Nets struggling is Kidd's fault. If you think Kidd is a better player than Nash for the reasons mentioned thats fine, I'm still going to go with Nash for all the reasons I mentioned, Nash is a better shooter, he's just as good, if not better as Kidd at finding his teammates, better FT shooter, and he has hit bigger clutch shots than Kidd. One answer isn't going to be better than the other, these are two of the best PGs in the league today.

Originally posted by wuTa
Well alot of this is unfair because somehow Nowitzki, Shaq, and others have made there way in the conversation when this is about Nash vs. Kidd. I'll admit that the Nets have a weaker bench than the Suns, but you can't hold that against Nash considering how the whole team has struggles when Nash has been hurt. If people are going to use how Kidd made it to the Finals (another way of saying how well he did in the season/standings) than its only fair that I can use the argument on how well Nash leads his team in the standings, maybe I just picked the wrong year, even last year, and I believe the year before last Nash lead his team farther than Kidds team in the playoffs, and to a better seed, and Nash pretty much had two different those years.

I never said the Nets struggling is Kidd's fault. If you think Kidd is a better player than Nash for the reasons mentioned thats fine, I'm still going to go with Nash for all the reasons I mentioned, Nash is a better shooter, he's just as good, if not better as Kidd at finding his teammates, better FT shooter, and he has hit bigger clutch shots than Kidd. One answer isn't going to be better than the other, these are two of the best PGs in the league today.

Alright, but I wasn't one of those people who included Shaq, Nowitzki, and the Finals, was I? And I've seen the Suns struggle when Nash is out. I know they're horrible without him, it's like a car without an engine, I know that. I saw their 3 or 4 game losing streak when he was out with the shoulder injury. But, have you seen the Nets without Kidd? They played like a JV team against the Varsity team. They made the Toronto Raptors look like the Mavericks. And also they lost big time to the Spurs at home. Marcus Williams has grown so much as a rookie, but a lot of the credit goes to Kidd. Kidd has been his mentor everywhere: in timeouts, in game situations, off the court, etc. In the 2 games Kidd was out, oh boy, it was ugly.

I agree Nash is a more clutch shooter, but ultimately, that leads down to Nash being an overall better shooter. Kidd has had numerous last second shots, but they haven't gone down. Why? Simply, he's not a great shooter. So shooting % is in Nash's favor.

I'm alright with people saying Nash is better, because he is Steve Nash after all. But I just don't like it when people use the Nets' struggles to downgrade Kidd, that's all.

Look at it this way, the Suns offense is built around Nash. The way they run it is all for Nash. As Recs said he is the engine but that is because their style of play. If Nash wasn't on the Suns and they played a regular offense then they would be successful. But even when he is out they still try that run n gun offense which Barbosa can't run by himself. He could probably run a regular offense with the amount of talent that is on that team.

The reason the Suns O is built around him is because he's a playmaker, and they're a running team

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
Alright, but I wasn't one of those people who included Shaq, Nowitzki, and the Finals, was I? And I've seen the Suns struggle when Nash is out. I know they're horrible without him, it's like a car without an engine, I know that. I saw their 3 or 4 game losing streak when he was out with the shoulder injury. But, have you seen the Nets without Kidd? They played like a JV team against the Varsity team. They made the Toronto Raptors look like the Mavericks. And also they lost big time to the Spurs at home. Marcus Williams has grown so much as a rookie, but a lot of the credit goes to Kidd. Kidd has been his mentor everywhere: in timeouts, in game situations, off the court, etc. In the 2 games Kidd was out, oh boy, it was ugly.

No, you weren't one of the people who included Shaq, Dirk, ect. which is why I try to use, and believe I did use quotes to direct my response towards the people that did use those examples.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
I agree Nash is a more clutch shooter, but ultimately, that leads down to
Nash being an overall better shooter. Kidd has had numerous last second shots, but they haven't gone down. Why? Simply, he's not a great shooter. So shooting % is in Nash's favor.

I'm alright with people saying Nash is better, because he is Steve Nash after all. But I just don't like it when people use the Nets' struggles to downgrade Kidd, that's all.

I already admitted I used the wrong year to compare the two, but I don't like it when people say Nash is an undeserving MVP, All MVPs candidates are deserving, thats why there candidates, whether people think he should have won is another thing, I get that thats going to be based on opinion.

Originally posted by wuTa


Amare was hurt all year last year and Nash still lead them to a 60+ wins and deep into the Western Conference Finals.

It was only 54 wins and they only made it to the Conference Finals because the playoff brackets were messed up.

" Look at it this way, the Suns offense is built around Nash. The way they run it is all for Nash. As Recs said he is the engine but that is because their style of play. If Nash wasn't on the Suns and they played a regular offense then they would be successful. But even when he is out they still try that run n gun offense which Barbosa can't run by himself. He could probably run a regular offense with the amount of talent that is on that team."

On top of that, they blamed all of the recent losses on the fact that Nash was out. Well, you have to remember that the Suns only use a 7 man rotation for the most part. So minus Nash and Diaw, and you only have 5 guys who are used to actually getting legit playing time. Of course they will lose. That is a flaw on D'Antoni's part, not a sign that Nash deserves MVP.

Theres some good points. But they still managed to hang in there despite them two being out.

That is a good point by Myth, for the last two years D'Antoni has had a minor rotation. I don't understand why wioth all the talent on that team.

I just have to say Kidd has really handled himself in a proffesional way with the injuries, losing, divorcement, and trade talks. He deserves better.

Like the Lakers!!!!! lol.

how?

You said he deserves better, he should have came to the Lakers.

Oh yeah!

That would have been awesome on the Lakers part, if they didn't have to give up Andrew and Lamar. Andrew Bynum is doing awesome this year and Lamar will come out next year healthier and better.

Keep dreaming guys.

There was no way we were going to give our franchise player for Jordan Farmar and a bunch of no named expiring contracts. Laker fans need to understand that trades consist of BOTH sides sacrificing what they have for something else. It's not "you give us nothing, and we give you something." You have to be willing to give up something of value in order to get something of value in return. We weren't just going to give you Kidd, that's being greedy.

But we don't want an older guy, then keep two young up and coming kids. Andrew Bynum and Jordan Farmer(maybe him later on, good, not great). But yeah I see your point Rec.

I know that Kidd is getting old, but it really depends on whether you want to win the championship now or in the distant future. Hearing so many people say, "Oh, once we get Kidd, we can step it up to the next level and go for the title," I assumed that Kidd's age wouldn't be that much of a factor, seeing that many people thought the Lakers would be contenders right away. That's why he so valuable, because this is in fact his best season.

If you were considering the Lakers winning it in the distant future (assuming that the Lakers' nucleus remains until then), then I can understand Kidd's age would be a concern. But frankly, that's a risk you guys have to be willing to take in order to nab Kidd from us. Because we have had our share of problems this year, and Kidd has been the only consistant player keeping our heads above water. So, if we were to trade him, we'd better get something good in return. And I understand that Bynum is young and has a bright future, but no way were we giving away Kidd for what the Lakers offered, not a chance.

Yeah, true, but still, I want Kidd!!!!!!!!!! lol.

Sorry, man, but I want a healthy Kenyon Martin, a healthy Kerry Kittles, and the most dominant center there ever could be, but I can't get that wish!

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
Sorry, man, but I want a healthy Kenyon Martin, a healthy Kerry Kittles, and the most dominant center there ever could be, but I can't get that wish! I just want KG, Shaq, and Jerry West

I don't want Shaq, lol.

Me neither.

Andrew Bynum is doing great and could be the next Shaq, I don't know that what some people have said, and the way it looks maybe.

Not Shaq, meybe a Ewing or Robinson.

Originally posted by Myth
It was only 54 wins and they only made it to the Conference Finals because the playoff brackets were messed up.

" Look at it this way, the Suns offense is built around Nash. The way they run it is all for Nash. As Recs said he is the engine but that is because their style of play. If Nash wasn't on the Suns and they played a regular offense then they would be successful. But even when he is out they still try that run n gun offense which Barbosa can't run by himself. He could probably run a regular offense with the amount of talent that is on that team."

Only 54 wins? Thats still alot of wins, espicially considering how Nash, and the Suns were suppose to tank w/o Amare. There;s always something, When Nash was in Dallas he was succesful because of Dirk, and Finley, his 1st year in Phoenix it was because of Amare, his 2nd year he was succesfull because of messed up brackets?

All offensives are built around the teams most valuable player. Lakers offense is built around Kobe, Nets around Kidd, Mavs around Dirk, S.A around Duncan, an so forth. When Nash was out they didnt run a "run n gun offense" they had a half court offense centered on the talent(Amare, Marion), and they still stuggled.


Originally posted by Myth
On top of that, they blamed all of the recent losses on the fact that Nash was out. Well, you have to remember that the Suns only use a 7 man rotation for the most part. So minus Nash and Diaw, and you only have 5 guys who are used to actually getting legit playing time. Of course they will lose. That is a flaw on D'Antoni's part, not a sign that Nash deserves MVP.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure its an 8 man rotation. The suns have some proven veterans on there bench, its not like these are rookies that never seen a game before. Plus, when you don't have your playmaker making plays or setting up teammates, I dont care if you have a 12 man rotation, you're still going to struggle. Whether you like it or not, Steve Nash is what makes the Phoenix Suns so good.

An 8 man rotation is still not good, especially when 2 guys go down. Any team with a small rotation that loses any guy and has to put in their scrubs as replacements is going to struggle. I agree Nash is the best PG in the league right now, and that he is the main piece to Phoenix playing the way they do, but I still don't think he should have won MVP the past 2 years or this year.

The most irritating thing is that the team doesn't get enough acknowledgment and its all "Nash makes the team win... Nash makes the team win....". The other night I was watching sportscenter and the Suns played the Hawks. Suns won (barely) while before the all-star game the Suns barely lost to Atlanta without Nash. Now here is the kicker, Nash scores 14 points and has 13 rebounds while Amare had 43 points, 16 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks. What does ESPN talk about? Nash. The credit went to Nash and it was sort of like, "Oh yeah, and that Amare guy was ok too." I know that not everybody does that, but some people contribute every victory to Nash no matter what actually happens in the game.

But some of them aren't scrubs, I wouldn't call Jalen Rose a scrub just because Antoine isn't playing him.

Valid Point, but you could say that with just about any team. How many times do you hear about Howard Terry, or Stackhouse when they put up a great games in Dallas, its always Dirk this, and Dirk that. Kapono was huge in Miami the other night, and had a double double, but who did they talk about, Shaq's double double(even though Kapono's was way more significant) and Wade's injury. In the beginning of the year when the Lakers where winning games w/o Kobe who did they always bring up during highlights, Kobe.

And just for the record, I think Dirk should win the MVP this year.

Originally posted by wuTa
How many times do you hear about Howard Terry, or Stackhouse when they put up a great games in Dallas, its always Dirk this, and Dirk that.

And valid point to you, but its not like Howard ever has a 43, 16, 6, and 3 game either. If anything, Howard's good games are only equal to Dirk and a given day, but Amare can play out of his mind and have the credit be given to Nash.

If the team won without Nash, Amare would get much more credit. I'm not saying its fair, but people judge you more off winning than by your numbers. If Amare puts up those kinda a numbers come playoff team, he'll get much more credit because of the people watching, and the significance of the games. When someone has a great game against the hawks its like that question, when a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it?

Originally posted by wuTa
If the team won without Nash, Amare would get much more credit. I'm not saying its fair, but people judge you more off winning than by your numbers. If Amare puts up those kinda a numbers come playoff team, he'll get much more credit because of the people watching, and the significance of the games. When someone has a great game against the hawks its like that question, when a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it?

Still, the point is that Amare was the MVP of that game and Nash still got the credit.

Btw, thats not how that saying goes.

Nash and the Suns admitted Amare was the MVP of that game, whether some announcer was too stupid to realise it is no fault of Nash.

Don't worry, I in no way blame Nash for anything he has done. He is very humble and I do like his attitude.

I didn't like his attitude in last years playoff series against the Lakers.

Starting fights and shit with Kobe and Sasha....

Wtf are you talking about? That was Bell.

You don't remember this?

Couldn't find the video though....




http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/0f/02/445044f2-00278-057ec-400cb8e1

I wouldn't exactly call that a fight.

This is a fight

http://sportsfights.net/reggie-miller-vs-kobe-bryant.html

C'mon, Nash is just about the last person who would pick a fight with anyone. C'mon this is Steve Nash we're talking about, not Ron Artest.

Well he was getting in peoples faces and shit and I wish Kobe would have decked him. I hate people who act all tough to someone because they know it will be broken up....

Steve Nash was acting all tough?

You gotta be joking.

.....

Why would I be joking?

Because Steve Nash doesn't act tough, he may rarely let the emotions get the best of him, but thats about it. Anyone that isn't wearing blinder knows that.

LOL I am guessing you didn't see the games in last years playoffs. There is a distinct difference between acting tough and letting the emotions get the best of you....

Starting unnecessary shit with Sasha and Kobe and putting your hand up like you about to back slap somebody is acting tough, or in his case, trying to act tough.

1st off, this comes to mind crybaby baby

2nd, How many fist fights has he been in, now how many many has Kobe been in. If you watched the games you know that he wasn't acting like he was going to backslap Kobe. He was moving his arms in frustration from Kobe's fouls, that pic is misleading.

I wish I could find the video, but I do remember Nash running up to Kobe and talking shit to him chest to chest. I remember the announcers saying something along the lines of 'Now that Nash is the unspoken leader, he has to stick up for his teammates.'

Well it did happen from that pic, I remember what happened in that pic, The Suns were winning, and Kobe fouled Nash to stop the clock and Nash took exception to the foul. Kobe tryed to calm Nash down but when he touched him on his arm, Nash swung his arm away from him.

There's also a difference between talkin shit to act tough, and talkin shit to backup your teammates.

Oh shit wuTa, check this out... Marion goes out and the Suns lose to the lowly 76ers. Does this make Marion, MVP? No, it goes to show how it would be wise for the Suns to develop a bench and that it is not just if Nash goes out they lose. Subtracting a guy from a short rotation will always raise big time problems for a team.

Are you making judgements off of one game,It's one loss, keep your pants on. I never said it wouldn't be wise for Phoenix to deepen there bench, why do you think Detroit burned out last year.

Now, If Marion is out for a while, Jalen Rose should get some more PT, and step in his place, 10 bucks says the Suns don't lose a beat, and not struggle.

If people are able to make judgments off a simple 3 game span, I can make them after 1. It was the only game all year that Phoenix never held a lead. Plus, losing Marion would be vital considering that he is the only person that plays great D on a team that is lacking D overall. I don't think Rose could make up for that.

Amare can play some good D. It's not just they lose without Nash, its how they lose. The offense stuggled, and how do the Suns beat you, offense. Did the Suns offensely struggle without Marion, no, not really, the Sixers just beat them.

The key is that the Suns were beaten on the boards, and they attempted only 14 free throws. They may not have struggled on offense that much, but I think Marion is so versitile and such an important part of the rotation that when he's out, the Suns' man power diminishes by a lot.

Originally posted by wuTa
Well it did happen from that pic, I remember what happened in that pic, The Suns were winning, and Kobe fouled Nash to stop the clock and Nash took exception to the foul. Kobe tryed to calm Nash down but when he touched him on his arm, Nash swung his arm away from him.

Sorry to take this even further off topic but that is wrong. Nash drove and was fouled by Sasha, Sasha turned and pleaded (like he always does) to the refs and got in Nash's way. Nash shoved him aside and Kobe stepped in, thats when Kobe and Nash started jawing and that pic was taken.
That followed onto the next game when Kwame blocked Diaw and stood over him as Diaw hit the deck resulting in Kobe and Nash having words again: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Knzzondy398
To be honest i kinda liked all the confrontation, thats what the playoffs are about. Some of the best series i've seen have had that type of animosity, Lakers vs Celtics, Lakers vs Pistons, Bulls vs Knicks, Lakers vs Kings etc. The game has been made so soft now its good to see players go at every now and then especially in the playoffs.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Sorry to take this even further off topic but that is wrong. Nash drove and was fouled by Sasha, Sasha turned and pleaded (like he always does) to the refs and got in Nash's way. Nash shoved him aside and Kobe stepped in, thats when Kobe and Nash started jawing and that pic was taken.
That followed onto the next game when Kwame blocked Diaw and stood over him as Diaw hit the deck resulting in Kobe and Nash having words again: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Knzzondy398
To be honest i kinda liked all the confrontation, thats what the playoffs are about. Some of the best series i've seen have had that type of animosity, Lakers vs Celtics, Lakers vs Pistons, Bulls vs Knicks, Lakers vs Kings etc. The game has been made so soft now its good to see players go at every now and then especially in the playoffs.

Well I said before, there is a difference between talkin shit to act tough, and talkin shit to backup your teammates. Anyone who played the game knows the difference. And I am almost positive there was an incident last year where Kobe fouled Nash, and Nash took exception. Nash drove, Kobe intentionally fouled him to stop the clock, and Nash didnt like it. Maybe it didn't happen in that pic, but it I'm 90% certain it did happen. Nevertheless, leave it to Mr. Laker to know all the details from a pic leading into one game to another. I don't know how you can remember all that when one of your favorite hobbies is known for memory loss

Just short term memory loss bro, just .............. what was i saying?

How great the Pistons are.

I havent lost that many brain cells.

Uh oh, we're going to have to take Marion out of the MVP race Myth, early this week when he played with the Suns against the Pacers, the suns barely beat them, w/o him however, they beat them by 25. I can't wait until Amare gets hurt and we can judge the Suns off two more games

I guess you missed my point then.

I knew that post was coming from Wuta as soon as I saw that the Suns won without Marion....

Originally posted by Myth


I guess you missed my point then.

The point of extending there rotation, yea, I got it. My last post wasn't to be taken seriously, judging off of two games, and Marion for MVP were suppose to be the hints.

It'd be funny if Marion and Nash were both MVP contenders, and Marion got it. Nash would feel insecure.

But it'll never happen.

Originally posted by wuTa
The point of extending there rotation, yea, I got it. My last post wasn't to be taken seriously, judging off of two games, and Marion for MVP were suppose to be the hints.

Well, I had made two main points earlier, and it seems you got the other one. The one I was referring to was the part that Nash fans judged Nash on 3 or so games without him which is also not enough.

Originally posted by Myth
Well, I had made two main points earlier, and it seems you got the other one. The one I was referring to was the part that Nash fans judged Nash on 3 or so games without him which is also not enough.

It was 6, and the suns struggled offensively in all 6 games. Judging a team off a 6 games where they struggle, is a little different than judging a team off of 2 games were they didn't struggle. Now, if you want to make the argument that is because they have a short bench go ahead, but If Dirk was out 6 games and the Mavs struggled for a week or two because of it, I would be hearing the same thing from Dirk fans.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Both in their prime. Which for Nash is now and Kidd was a few years ago.

I say Kidd cuz he gets triple-doubles!

Kidd.

Whos better? Depends what you want for your team. If you want a guard to run a high powered offense then you go with Nash. Difference between him and Kidd is his jumpshot, it's money. That's why the pick and roll is so hard to defend when you're up against the Suns. If you guard too close he'll drive by and find an open shooter. If you stay back he can knock the jumper. Only problem with Nash is that he's not very good as an overall defender. Kidd is better for a more well balanced team, he rebounds really well for a point guard and he is one of the best defenders at the point guard position. His jumpshot is really streaky however.