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The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

Christianity makes no sense

Name a religon that does.

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

...you are assuming that angels can not be tempted. Why?

Seeing as Lucifer was an angel and the bible is kinda the authority on angels, doesn't that mean that maybe your assumption is wrong? That angels can be tempted?

thats because he was not an angel he was a jinn he was created from smokeless fire whereas angels are created from light and humans are created from clay

Originally posted by muslimscholar
thats because he was not an angel he was a jinn he was created from smokeless fire whereas angels are created from light and humans are created from clay

Like Wonder Woman?

Originally posted by Council#13
Name a religon that does. Tr00f!
Originally posted by Bardock42
...you are assuming that angels can not be tempted. Why?

Seeing as Lucifer was an angel and the bible is kinda the authority on angels, doesn't that mean that maybe your assumption is wrong? That angels can be tempted? Does the Bible actually go into the fall of Lucifer, because I always thought that was just something passed down through Tradition.

Originally posted by Council#13
Name a religon that does.

I can't, really. I sort of tend to support Richard Bach's teachings (Illusions: the adventures of a reluctant Messiah is one of my must-have books) and according to Wikipedia, his teachings fall under the domain of non-dualism, which, as far as I can figure it out, basically means you are not born good or evil, you are born with a choice, and what you do with that choice is up to you.

The metaphor he uses, which I like, is that choice (in other words, your life) is like going to a movie: some people like watching horrors, some like comedies, others adventure stuff, or tragedies, etc. The thing is, people become so involved in the movies (their lives, in this instance) that they forget that they have a choice, and that they can change their minds any time they feel like it.

They feel like awkward getting up in the middle of a movie and just walking out, the same as they feel a bit scared just choosing to change the direction of their lives (maybe they feel embarrassed, because it means they made a wrong choice?)

The thing is, it's just a choice -AND YOU ALWAYS HAVE A CHOICE! You can turn around your life anytime you feel like it, yet people will come up to you and complain about how meaningless and empty their lives are.

Ha. I just laugh at them. "Sorry to hear about your problems" I say, with the emphasis on YOUR.

The other religion I sort of favour is Buddhism. I don't know much about it, but the little I know, I like.

Question:

Is there such a thing as Individualism? I believe I am an individual, and I am on a journey to learn and to have fun, and that this is an eternal journey. I believe that we are placed on this earth because there is something specific we need to learn, or to teach, and that once our mission is done, we move on.

Is it weird not to be scared of death? I am not advocating actively seeking death, I love my life (this adventure) too much - there are so many things I still want to experience and learn!

But ever since I was small, I have known that we all die - and for some reason that does not scare me - any more than going on a great, strange new adventure would scare me.

Does this make me weird? Or just realistic?

You decide.

PS By the way, have you ever met somebody and immediately you just clicked? It's like you've known each other your whole lives? Or have you ever met somebody and just felt the hair on the back of your neck rise? Do you think these people might be people you might have met previously? And that some of these people were your friends, or your enemies?

I'm not a big believer of reincarnation, but sometimes I do wonder - if our souls are eternal, and the journey is endless - is it possible that we might run into the same people, over and over again?

Just a thought to ponder...

Originally posted by Bardock42
...you are assuming that angels can not be tempted. Why?

Seeing as Lucifer was an angel and the bible is kinda the authority on angels, doesn't that mean that maybe your assumption is wrong? That angels can be tempted?

God gave one angel and one angel only, the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.
The angel was named Lucifer. I am sure you know the rest of the story

Originally posted by Kaldorei
God gave one angel and one angel only, the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.
The angel was named Lucifer. I am sure you know the rest of the story Where do you get this idea? Biblical reference please.

If you hold, I will check the paragraph up

Originally posted by Kaldorei
God gave one angel and one angel only, the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.
The angel was named Lucifer. I am sure you know the rest of the story Originally posted by Regret
Where do you get this idea? Biblical reference please.

Originally posted by muslimscholar
thats because he was not an angel he was a jinn he was created from smokeless fire whereas angels are created from light and humans are created from clay


Yes, yes, we all know your myth...



But according to your legend, Lucifer then is evil by default, and not by free will...so it's not his fault he is evil, it's God. God made him evil, because God made jinn out of smokeless fire., and not pure light.


(as if light is always a good thing, go near the sun and you will be destroyed)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, yes, we all know your myth...



But according to your legend, Lucifer then is evil by default, and not by free will...so it's not his fault he is evil, it's God. God made him evil, because God made jinn out of smokeless fire., and not pure light.


(as if light is always a good thing, go near the sun and you will be destroyed)

He he. Good response.

This thing about free will seem to trip most people up... especially Christians.

Originally posted by Regret
Where do you get this idea? Biblical reference please.

Ezekiel 28:15-17
-
Matthew 13:38-39;
I Peter 5:8;
Revelation 9:11; 12:9-10

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

It's a metaphor for a child that rebels against the father. There is no such person a Satan, or the devil.

Originally posted by Kaldorei

Ezekiel 28:15-17
-
Matthew 13:38-39;
I Peter 5:8;
Revelation 9:11; 12:9-10

None of these support this idea:Originally posted by Kaldorei
God gave one angel and one angel only, the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.

In fact Revelation 12:9 states "and his angels were cast out with him.", inferring more than just Satan had the ability.

Then I have missunderstood it. I also read the doctorine of some bible researcher. It was from that doctorine I based that statement. If you hold, I will get it

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.show/CT/BS/k/511

http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/About.bio/ID/13

The final thread is the authors biography.

Originally posted by Council#13
Name a religon that does.

Impossible, simply impossible!!

The Devil is a big misinterpretation !

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The Devil is a big misinterpretation ! The Devil is a threat thought up by man.

Originally posted by lord xyz
The Devil is a threat thought up by man.

That is true, but I think it is more complicated then that.

The DEVIL IS KINKY droolio

Originally posted by Kaldorei
Then I have missunderstood it. I also read the doctorine of some bible researcher. It was from that doctorine I based that statement. If you hold, I will get it Originally posted by Kaldorei
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.show/CT/BS/k/511

http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/About.bio/ID/13

The final thread is the authors biography.

These do not support the concept:

Originally posted by Kaldorei
God gave one angel and one angel only, the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.
The angel was named Lucifer. I am sure you know the rest of the story You must have misunderstood what you read. The paper states that Satan led one-third the angels of Heaven against God, this implies the angels chose to follow him.

The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants.

"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants.

"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

I say that the Devil does not exist, and my proof is the lack of evidence for his existence.

Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants.

"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

The second greatest trick is you making up that load of crap rolleyes1

Why the Hell does Lucifer mean 'Beam of Light' or something? I know there's light in there somewhere.

The Devil must have good in him. No one can fall that far and learn nothing for it.

Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants.

"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

Gods is that quote overused. And it has essentially become one of those cover all quotes some people use in religious argument when they have not a single firm fact to contribute.

"Of course there is no proof of the devil" the debater will say with a self satisfied grin "The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

To which I reply: "Yes, because it makes far more sense to think a lack of any proof at all is actual proof that the devil exists and is just tricking us into thinking there is no proof he exists. Someone less wise and without access to a big book of quotes might just believe, you know, that maybe the devil doesn't actually exist. At all."

It is as bad as "the Lord works in mysterious ways" - when something good happens of course God is real and of cause responsible for all and sundry. When something bad happens or there is no proof at all it is "he works in mysterious ways."

Really, it is no way to debate.

Angels are Like Humans, only with super powers, and no sex drive, and immortal,

with that said, Lucifer wanted something that he couldnt attain. To be come a god.

But God said. You dont know how to be god cuz i looked into it.

Lucifer said Fuk you I'm rebelling against you.

God said Fuk you too, now your banished. Go to hell.

Devil's a nice guy, loaned me $20 one time. All I had to do was sign a permission sheet for him 'cause his parents wouldn't let him go on a trip.

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

Even angels have free will ermm

Originally posted by Smiter
Angels are Like Humans, only with super powers, and no sex drive, and immortal,

with that said, Lucifer wanted something that he couldnt attain. To be come a god.

But God said. You dont know how to be god cuz i looked into it.

Lucifer said Fuk you I'm rebelling against you.

God said Fuk you too, now your banished. Go to hell.

I have greater sympathy for the Devil in those versions of the story.

Maybe it is just the concept people have the right to aspire, and more importantly have a chance to suceed. Maybe it is the fact he aspired to something were as God... well, he doesn't seem to aspire or have dreams or anything. Just some plan. I have little love for a Godly concept that so often comes of as some sort of ill humored tyrant who never the less love us to bits, even when he is killing us, because you know, God is all good and can't be wrong. Ever.

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.
Correct.

Incorrect. If Christ Himself could be tempted, then surely something lower than he could be tempted.

Pure goodness, maybe? Either way, angels are not.

They have--or had--free will. With free will comes the "ability to be bad."

I think I just showed that it does.

No. Not anymore.

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

Good instilled all of his creations with free will. From the highest of the cherubs to his creation of man. If he forcefully made all of his creations "Love" him, then God would not truly be loving.

Lucifer used his free will and became "evil" when he attempted to ascend above God and thus in doing this, he was acting against the "good" nature of God. If one is to believe that God is purely good by nature, then by default they should also believe that anyone who acts against him in anyway shape or form is committing some form of evil. So in essence, evil is really defined by any action one takes against God.

Satan does not think himself to be evil. He actually believes himself to be a champion of sorts of "free will" and "choice." Unfortunately, what he doesn't seem to realise is that he and those who follow him are not partaking in any form of "free will", rather, they have become slaves to another ideology or religion that goes against God as well as takes away the "free will" and "choices" from others.

This religion is called "lawlessness" and is essentially an anarchic system where everything goes, and where there are no absolute truths. People, angels(or demons), can do whatever they want under this system with out any consequence.(at least they believe that there is no consequence, until someone of greater power and authority takes this power away from them).

Lucifer and all of the angels who sided with him have a choice to be good again, but unfortunately, they have become quite adament about this philosopy, believing it to be the correct one. Lucifer believes himself to be correct in his position, which is a contradiction to his philosophy of no absoute truths existing, since he himself has stated that it is impossible for anyone to completely know the truth.

God has been merciful on Lucifer and all of his creations throughout the years, extending his grace and love to all of his creations. But at some point, this grace period will end. And all of those who act against God with no longing to repent will suffer a fate that they've created for themselves.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, yes, we all know your myth...



But according to your legend, Lucifer then is evil by default, and not by free will...so it's not his fault he is evil, it's God. God made him evil, because God made jinn out of smokeless fire., and not pure light.


(as if light is always a good thing, go near the sun and you will be destroyed)

there are muslim jinns as well now in the world

Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants.

"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist." And you believe this because of what a book says?

I dont believe in the hell the Bible talks about... no fire and brimstone... no evil Satan there luring you into his pit of darkness....I think we make our own hell and its my belief that Lucifer was not a 'fallen' angel... but instead is the angel sent by God to watch over the souls that have not made their way to heaven. Sorta like a keeper and protector until they see the light and make peace with the hell they made for themselves.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I say that the Devil does not exist, and my proof is the lack of evidence for his existence. Originally posted by BlackC@
The second greatest trick is you making up that load of crap rolleyes1

Why the Hell does Lucifer mean 'Beam of Light' or something? I know there's light in there somewhere.

The Devil must have good in him. No one can fall that far and learn nothing for it. Originally posted by lord xyz
And you believe this because of what a book says? Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Gods is that quote overused. And it has essentially become one of those cover all quotes some people use in religious argument when they have not a single firm fact to contribute.

"Of course there is no proof of the devil" the debater will say with a self satisfied grin "The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."

To which I reply: "Yes, because it makes far more sense to think a lack of any proof at all is actual proof that the devil exists and is just tricking us into thinking there is no proof he exists. Someone less wise and without access to a big book of quotes might just believe, you know, that maybe the devil doesn't actually exist. At all."

It is as bad as "the Lord works in mysterious ways" - when something good happens of course God is real and of cause responsible for all and sundry. When something bad happens or there is no proof at all it is "he works in mysterious ways."

Really, it is no way to debate. Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence.

Simply put, it means that if we don't know that something exists, it doesn't mean that it doesn't; It only means we don't know one way or the other, we just haven't been made aware of it yet so it's not part of our knowledge.

If you look for "X" and don't find it, does that prove that there is no "X"? No.


I flip a coin 5 times and get "heads" every time (no "tails". Is it a "heads only" coin? (...having a "head" printed on both sides.) No.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Christianity makes no sense

It doesn't need to make sense

Jesus is a ninja

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

The devil thinks of himself now, so he doesn't need to be good.

Lucifer was a dumb angel, he probably thought that it would be BETTER for others to try and overthrow god, and came to the conclusion much too quickly, it hasn't happened ever since then because of Lucifer.

Jus because angels are pure good doesn't mean they don't make bad mistakes!

God could have completely deleted lucifers existance, but thought better as he is a good god and gave him his own (but not very comfertable) world to live in.

And since Lucifer doesn't want to change anymore after what god did to him, and has become worse, God ain't lettin him out!

Originally posted by BananaKing
The devil thinks of himself now, so he doesn't need to be good.

Lucifer was a dumb angel, he probably thought that it would be BETTER for others to try and overthrow god, and came to the conclusion much too quickly, it hasn't happened ever since then because of Lucifer.

Jus because angels are pure good doesn't mean they don't make bad mistakes!

God could have completely deleted lucifers existance, but thought better as he is a good god and gave him his own (but not very comfertable) world to live in.

And since Lucifer doesn't want to change anymore after what god did to him, and has become worse, God ain't lettin him out!

Where did you get this information.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I have greater sympathy for the Devil in those versions of the story.


Please to meet you,
hope you guessed my name.
But what's puzzling you
is the nature of my game, oh yeah.

Rolling Stones



If there is a devil, then it's us. Not a made up entity.

*raises hand* what is an angel? is the assumption that if you go to heaven you are an angel?

No. Angels are quite different than dead people.

Yea. They're imaginary.

The wit, mercy please...

Originally posted by Nellinator
mercy please...

What are you, like 80

At least.

Sigh, can the sarcasm for a second; what is an angel?

Acutally better put: how does one become an angel?

Originally posted by chithappens
Sigh, can the sarcasm for a second; what is an angel?

The figure formed by two rays sharing a common endpoint.

My Egyptian calc theacher could never keep the spelling of angel and angle right, which lead to some humorous situations.

Originally posted by Alliance
My Egyptian calc theacher could never keep the spelling of angel and angle right, which lead to some humorous situations.



I guess you saw sines from God?

Yes. Sines of the angels.

Originally posted by chithappens
Sigh, can the sarcasm for a second; what is an angel?

Acutally better put: how does one become an angel? An angel in Christian theology is a servant of God in heaven, they are a seperate race from humans so one cannot become one. Some angels rebelled and these are fallen angels or demons. Satan is the chief of these angels.

Originally posted by Nellinator
An angel in Christian theology is a servant of God in heaven, they are a seperate race from humans so one cannot become one. Some angels rebelled and these are fallen angels or demons. Satan is the chief of these angels.

Ok so just to be clear, people who go to heaven are what? Generally people speak of going to heaven and becoming angels so am I missing something simple?

They are simply people with their sinful nature removed is basically all that it is.

Where that belief comes from I do not know, but I know exactly what you are talking about.

Ok, cool. Long as I'm not crazy. I was only asking questions in sequence to be sure we were on the same page. I have heard way too many ideas of what heaven "really" is. Odd stuff really. So many lies.

Sigh, this is sad.

* Oh yea and do you have any ideas on the thread I posted about gay people automatically going to Hell. No one has any clue I guess so yea...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, yes, we all know your myth...



But according to your legend, Lucifer then is evil by default, and not by free will...so it's not his fault he is evil, it's God. God made him evil, because God made jinn out of smokeless fire., and not pure light.


(as if light is always a good thing, go near the sun and you will be destroyed)

jinns are like humans in islam, they can be both good and evil so lucifer chose to be evil...

Satan was supposedly created by an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God to be good, yet Satan turned evil and has used his powers to fight God' s plans. Of course it doesn' t make any sense.

Originally posted by BlackC@
But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!


Who told you that? It isn't in the bible...and Satan, the accuser is actually a member of God's divine Court. See, the book of Job.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Who told you that? It isn't in the bible...and Satan, the accuser is actually a member of God's divine Court. See, the book of Job.

Why would a God have a court?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would a God have a court?

I don't know...why would a tree have the ability to reach a spiritual plane of existence known as enlightenment?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I don't know...why would a tree have the ability to reach a spiritual plane of existence known as enlightenment?

A tree can't "reach" enlightenment.

Also, they are not equivalent. A court is part of an out dated and inefficient political system.

Oh yeah, the tree doesnt reach it...it has it.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Oh yeah, the tree doesnt reach it...it has it.

There is hope for you after all.

Why didn't you just tell me that the people who wrote the bible didn't know any better? The only political system them knew what a kingdom. So, they described god's power as a kingdom; it was the best they could do.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is hope for you after all.

Why didn't you just tell me that the people who wrote the bible didn't know any better? The only political system them knew what a kingdom. So, they described god's power as a kingdom; it was the best they could do.

Well I could just insult your beliefs, but then that was really not a very fair thing to do, for which I'm sorry

Besides, as far as it goes, it was a court. God seems to have some form of Divine Government...the Dept of Miraculous Affairs and such...however, Jesus did talk of a Kingdom but it was more personal. The Parable of the Mustard Seed, so it seems from the OT to the birth of Christ Heaven went under a little revolution/reform.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well I could just insult your beliefs, but then that was really not a very fair thing to do, for which I'm sorry

Besides, as far as it goes, it was a court. God seems to have some form of Divine Government...the Dept of Miraculous Affairs and such...however, Jesus did talk of a Kingdom but it was more personal. The Parable of the Mustard Seed, so it seems from the OT to the birth of Christ Heaven went under a little revolution/reform.

Do you really believe in the what the bible says literally? Don't you think no one can understand god, and therefore, the bible is only figurative?

I don't believe in much of the content of the bible, but assuming Jesus was the son of God, then he would be able to understand God completly and utterly.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I don't believe in much of the content of the bible, but assuming Jesus was the son of God, then he would be able to understand God completly and utterly.

If god cannot be understood my humans, then even if Jesus understood god, he would never be able to make us understand.

Perhaps I will start a thread on interpreting scripture, ofcourse you are correct, vast amounts of the OT are symbolic in nature- genesis for example- however, other things come into play aswell.

Can man understand God? The biblical answer to that is "Imago Dei".

Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.

But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!

I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.

No, angels are not pure goddess (or goddesses). Yes, angels are capable of sinning. It makes perfect sense relative to the Bible.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to Hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Scholars believe that these were the angels that had sexual intercourse with women (as recorded in the Book of Genesis chapter 6, verses 1-5). They believe that this was their sin which led to them be cast down to Hell (i.e. Tartarus).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, angels are not pure goddess (or goddesses). Yes, angels are capable of sinning. It makes perfect sense relative to the Bible.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to Hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Scholars believe that these were the angels that had sexual intercourse with women (as recorded in the Book of Genesis chapter 6, verses 1-5). They believe that this was their sin which led to them be cast down to Hell (i.e. Tartarus). Wait, having sex with women puts you in hell, having sex with men puts you in hell, what the hell are men supposed to shag, animals?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Wait, having sex with women puts you in hell, having sex with men puts you in hell, what the hell are men supposed to shag, animals?

Angels were not created to copulate with human beings. But angels have the ability to assume (i.e. take on) human form. These angels violated God's will and plan for humanity. They are in Tartarus at the moment awaiting judgment. Having sex with women does not put a person in Hell (I am about to get technical now). The only sin (at this point in time) that will send someone to Hell is rejecting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior. But having sex with someone that you are not married to is a serious sin. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a person sows, that he/she will also reap.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Angels were not created to copulate with human beings. But angels have the ability to assume (i.e. take on) human form. These angels violated God's will and plan for humanity. They are in Tartarus at the moment awaiting judgment. Having sex with women does not put a person in Hell (I am about to get technical now). The only sin (at this point in time) that will send someone to Hell is rejecting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior. But having sex with someone that you are not married to is a serious sin. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a person sows, that he/she will also reap. What kind of "perfect" God has a plan that one of his own creations could violate? I'll tell you what kind, no kind. You're God can simply not exist, if both of these were true.

If the devil is real then why hasn't his picture been taken.

Originally posted by lord xyz
What kind of "perfect" God has a plan that one of his own creations could violate? I'll tell you what kind, no kind. You're God can simply not exist, if both of these were true. That is poor logic.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
They are in Tartarus at the moment awaiting judgment.



Tarturus is Pagan. It is part of Ancient Greek Mythology, along with Hades and Zeus. Your religion copied it. Be more original please.





Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Having sex with women does not put a person in Hell (I am about to get technical now). The only sin (at this point in time) that will send someone to Hell is rejecting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior.



THEN ITS OKAY TO BE GAY ! AS LONG AS I BELEIVE IN CHRIST ! THAT'S EASY!



Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But having sex with someone that you are not married to is a serious sin. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a person sows, that he/she will also reap.


Yeah, yeah, whatever....

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Tarturus is Pagan. It is part of Ancient Greek Mythology, along with Hades and Zeus. Your religion copied it. Be more original please. Hebrew idiom, the Biblical use is different from the Greek mythology surrounding it. Same with Hades considering it is the translation of Sheol.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Hebrew idiom, the Biblical use is different from the Greek mythology surrounding it. Same with Hades considering it is the translation of Sheol.



But you know that Hades and Tarturus are Pagan beleifs...why do you guys still utilize it ? Why not just say "Hell" or Sheol ?



That's like using "Elysian Fields" instead of Heaven.....

"The Kingdom of Heaven is within" NOT OUTSIDE!

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, Lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:20-21

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But you know that Hades and Tarturus are Pagan beleifs...why do you guys still utilize it ? Why not just say "Hell" or Sheol ?



That's like using "Elysian Fields" instead of Heaven..... Because it was written in Greek, and those words are relatively close. However, I personally use Sheol and the lake of fire instead. Saves little arguments like this

Then why don't the authors of the OT and NT believe in a fire burning hell? The Jews.

Because it hasn't been created yet.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Because it hasn't been created yet.


So God will create it....I thought we send ourselves there....it is evident that according to the story, God sends us there.

Welll, first there is Sheol which is basically penance. And then lake of fire destruction of Hades at the end times.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Welll, first there is Sheol which is basically penance. And then lake of fire destruction of Hades at the end times.


But God is the creator or Hell...that's all I need to know

Ok then.

I am just saying...now I remember why I don't beleive in this kind of God

Ok then.

hey debbiejoe, where u been?

To hell and back..... Good thing I remembered the way....

Originally posted by BlackC@
It doesn't make sense. I decided to definitively end this thread...

You make no sense.

Done deal.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I decided to definitively end this thread...

How christian of you

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Why not just say "Hell" or Sheol ?



Hell is actually the name of a Norse Godess, they stole that as well. I think the correct word for Hell is Gehenna.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But you know that Hades and Tarturus are Pagan beleifs...why do you guys still utilize it ? Why not just say "Hell" or Sheol ?



That's like using "Elysian Fields" instead of Heaven.....

Because wanting or not.... christianity has pagan roots and all in it is originally pagan.

The Hebrew henrited much of the greek culture when they where invaded by Alexander the Great, and christianity came from the Hebrews.

Christianity also came from a lot of different places. The churche changed rapidly in its first 500 years or so