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guys, do you know who's gonna win?

Anubis owns both of them. I'd say it's close. Does Strike have the N-jammer canceler?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Anubis owns both of them. I'd say it's close. Does Strike have the N-jammer canceler?

Strike Freedom is a Nuclear Gundam, so I'm guessing it is.

And I'd say Kira in SEED mode and not holding back will definitely come out on top. Even w/out having gone SEED, Kira has taken down far more and has shown more skill. Plus the Dragoon system makes the Strike Freedom incredibly effective in long range. Add to the fact that Kira is damn near unstoppable in close combat, Strike Freedom cuts down Wing Zero into pieces.

Also occording to official material Strike Freedom has 5 times the output of Freedom which was already over twice as powerful as wing zero.

the real queationis:KIRA vs HEERO
who is more baddass.
i give it to heero due to the fact that he WOULD kill kira,
kira tries not to kill,only disable mobile suits

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the real queationis:KIRA vs HEERO
who is more baddass.
i give it to heero due to the fact that he WOULD kill kira,
kira tries not to kill,only disable mobile suits

And how's he going to be able to take down Kira, who has more skill feats, as well as a superior mobile suit? Simply put, he's not.

Kira cuts up Wing Zero and flies away, never being seen again,

Ahhh Man! It was the bomb hanging out with you Afro Samuraiiiiiiiiiieee.....
"Ninja Ninja"

In any case, I think the strike freedom would win. As much as I love the wing zero in its angel and the twin buster rifle along with the zero system I believe that the Strike freedom would win because it has a wider variety of weapons and defenses.

The Wing Zero could essentilly pull a one hit wonder with the Twin Buster Rifle though... None of Kira's mobile suits have been directly hit with a Colony killer...

Dangit, double post...

AND, where are you guys pulling the powerlevels from? 5 x more powerful? I doubt that, since the Wing Zero's powerplant is a fission reactor... that makes it the clean equivelant of a nuclear generator used in the Strike Freedom.

Now, I make no bones about this, the Freedom has more weapons, no question, but then none of the Strike Freedoms weapons can POSSIBLY match the sheer destructive force of the Twin Buster Rifle, which Zero has been shown to fire repeatedly, and accurately.

Twin Busters are nice, but is he going to hit Kira who, in SEED mode, can dodge multiple shots fired at different angles by other skilled pilots? And, what's to stop Kira from sending out his Dragoons to simply knock out the Busters?

Freedom just has too many angles for Zero to possibly win.

3 reasons.

#1: The TBR is made from Gundanium, just like he rest of Wing Zero, and has survived far worse than those beam cannons, including Reentry, Libra and Barge main cannon shots, and even Beam Saber and Beam Sword strikes (The fights with Epyon.

#2: The TBR can sweep, much like a gigantic beam saber but with no range limitation. Kira can dodge for sure, but not for that long, and certainly not from that kind of range, dispersion and sweeping capability, remember, the TBR's beams are HUGE.

#3: The Wing Zero ain't slow, not by any means... Wing kept up with Epyon, which was a dedicated close combat specialist vehicle that was built for speed by sacrificing ranged weapons... Both of them are fast bastards.

How is Kira not able to dodge just TWO beams? He's shown the ability to dodge dragoon shots, shots from other mobile suits and other projectiles at once with relative ease. The problem with the TBR is that they're still just rifles, albeit being very powerful one.

I love Wing Zero, but again, Strike Freedom just has too much going for it to really lose in a serious, bloodlust battle.

The TBR sweeps, (Like I said before) constant huge beams, just like a no-range linited Beam Saber, in other words, if Kira can be hit with a searchlight, he can be hit by this, All Zero has to do, is sweep it's arms quickly while holding the trigger, and Kira is hit. You've seen what the TBR's multiple uses, and even though it's just one or two beams, the very fact that Heero can arch the beams like that makes it VERY difficult to dodge at all.

One other thing I would like to add, what are Kira's weapons supposed to do against Gundanium? That stuff is incredibly durable...

As much range as the TBRs have, their beams still have only one trojectory, even when sweeping. I find it very skeptical how just two beams can possibly nail Kira, when he's taken one multiple beams fired at him (from different angles, too) and dodged with relative ease.

It's not as if Kira's going to one shot Wing Zero or anything. As strong as the Gundanium is, it's not completely indesctructable. After a while, even it will begin to wear and tear from the multiple things Strike Freedom can do to it.

Originally posted by Haruhi
As much range as the TBRs have, their beams still have only one trojectory, even when sweeping. I find it very skeptical how just two beams can possibly nail Kira, when he's taken one multiple beams fired at him (from different angles, too) and dodged with relative ease.

It's not as if Kira's going to one shot Wing Zero or anything. As strong as the Gundanium is, it's not completely indesctructable. After a while, even it will begin to wear and tear from the multiple things Strike Freedom can do to it.

No they don't... The beams move like light does. Quatra made himself look like a searchlight, and nailed every Taurus suit around him. And Kira doesn't dodge with ease, Providence kicked his ass hard...

The only weapons the S.Freedom has that Could Possibly do damage is the Rail Guns, and those have an ammo limit, besides the beam sabers, and I think Heero exeeds Kira in close combat.

This argument is going in circles, it seems. You think the TBRs are going to nail Kira because of their motions. I don't see that happening, because Kira has shown considerable skills in dodging. Especially against beams.

Also, Kira in Strike Freedom > Kira in regular Freedom.

And I disagree that Heero exceeds Kira in close combat. Simply by feats alone, Kira has done much more than Heero ever did.

Again, Wing Zero isn't indestuctable. Even after a while, no matter how weak the shots are, if concentrated enough,will take effect.

He has been shown dodging short energy bursts yes, but a continual beam that moves like a Beam Saber and is more than 3 times bigger than his entire mobile suit? no way... Picture it like the Genisis beam but being swung like a Saber, you may get what I mean then.

That doesn't do him any favours.

By feats alone, Kira has only really beaten Bacues, Jinns, and Dinns. Nickle falling was because he charged Kira and missed, and other than that, Kira hasn't done anything withhis beamsabers of note that Wing didn't do. Wing Zero took on and defeated the Deathscythe Hell and won, and even defeated Epyon, a close combat specialist... Let me put it in another perspective, do you think Kira' in the Strike freedom, with nothing but close combat, can defeat Epyon? I can very easily say hell no...

I'm not saying it is, but it has proven to sustain FAR more than Kira has ever dished out. he simply hasn't shown enough firepower to destroy Gundanium based Zoids, even going all out.



Another thing you seems to forget is the Zero System, this gives Heero precognititive capability. that means he can predict moves.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He has been shown dodging short energy bursts yes, but a continual beam that moves like a Beam Saber and is more than 3 times bigger than his entire mobile suit? no way... Picture it like the Genisis beam but being swung like a Saber, you may get what I mean then.

That doesn't do him any favours.


By feats alone, Kira has only really beaten Bacues, Jinns, and Dinns. Nickle falling was because he charged Kira and missed, and other than that, Kira hasn't done anything withhis beamsabers of note that Wing didn't do. Wing Zero took on and defeated the Deathscythe Hell and won, and even defeated Epyon, a close combat specialist... Let me put it in another perspective, do you think Kira' in the Strike freedom, with nothing but close combat, can defeat Epyon? I can very easily say hell no...

I'm not saying it is, but it has proven to sustain FAR more than Kira has ever dished out. he simply hasn't shown enough firepower to destroy Gundanium based Zoids, even going all out.



Another thing you seems to forget is the Zero System, this gives Heero precognititive capability. that means he can predict moves.

The Genesis beams are far, far larger than the TBR beams.

And what's to say Kira can't defeat Epyon in close combat? Keep in mind that Kira is skilled enough to blitz past mobile suits, skillfully cut off their arms/legs then weave right past them. That takes a lot more skill than just going for the outright body shot and killing.

How often did Kira ever go all out in Freedom, though? Or even Strike Freedom? With everything Strike Freedom has going for it, are you seriously going to say that Wing Zero can just collectively take shots from it? In no way do I see Strike Freedom NOT hitting Wing Zero. There's just too much he's got going on.

Predicting movement and actually being able to react to it accordingly are two different stories.

There's also the matter of Heero's ability to manipulate and trap. The guy is by far more cunning than Kira.
If there is a way to hit Strike Freedom with those beams Heero will figure it out. Even if it means Heero would die as well.

Originally posted by Haruhi
The Genesis beams are far, far larger than the TBR beams.

Thats entirely subjective.

The TBR are easily larger than the Lohengrin and Godfrieds on the Archangel, and that leaves me with Genesis as a comparison... And notice how I didn't say that the TBR shots where as large, but I was giving you a close approximation of size, since nothing else worked.

Originally posted by Haruhi
And what's to say Kira can't defeat Epyon in close combat? Keep in mind that Kira is skilled enough to blitz past mobile suits, skillfully cut off their arms/legs then weave right past them. That takes a lot more skill than just going for the outright body shot and killing.

Close Combat against Epyon? well you mean asside from the fact that Epyon is a close combat dedicated Gundam and Kira couldn't hope to pull off half the stunts with the Freedom that Zechs did in the Epyon.

Try the fact that the Epyon's Beam Sword cleaved Space Fortress Barge cleanly in half, and Beam Sabers in Seed have hard times cutting space cables. (It took 5 to 7 minutes for a beam saber to free the Kusanagi from the cable.. and that was a single cut.)

Not to mention that the Epyon is incredibly fast, maneuverable, light nimble, durable and physically very strong.

Originally posted by Haruhi
How often did Kira ever go all out in Freedom, though? Or even Strike Freedom? With everything Strike Freedom has going for it, are you seriously going to say that Wing Zero can just collectively take shots from it? In no way do I see Strike Freedom NOT hitting Wing Zero. There's just too much he's got going on.

In the Freedom? against the Raider Calamity and Forbidden, and against the Providence.

I'm not sure about the Strike Freedom, but the Destroy nearly claimed him.

And just how many advantages do you think the Strike Freedom has over the Wing Zero... the only thing I see is more weapons... and none of those weapons comes close to outdoing the TBR in terms ov overall destructive power and range.

I do beleive that based on the Wing Zero's capabilities and Heero's more refined skill and experience, plus the willingness to get the job done at any cost far outweights the weapons difference of the machines, and allows the Wing Zero to take the majority of encounters.

As for the S.Freedom hitting the Zero, Well, he may indeeed hit Heero a few times, but like I said before, Heero's no slouch, he can dodge with the best of them, and all Heero needs is ONE hit to atomise the S.Freedom, whereas Kira needs to hit the Wing Zero Many Many times all in the same spot to even make the Zero begin to take actual damage.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Predicting movement and actually being able to react to it accordingly are two different stories.

Thats just it, the Zero System allows that...it helps the pilot make the best possible moves that allow it to acheive absolute victory, even if self sacrifice is nessisary. And since Heero is one of the two people to ever truly master the system on his own, well that does make him very uber.