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No rest (well maybe a minute, but that's it), no healing, nothing in between each fight. This is BotS Darth Bane, and each battle takes place in the Geonosis Arena as seen in AotC. When there are multiple enemies, assume that they will be coming from opposite ends, and not all together. Darth Bane will always begin in the centre of the arena.

1. 10 Magnaguards.
2. 50 top Black Sun Warriors (like the warriors Darth Maul faced).
3. Quinlan Vos and Assaj Ventress.
4. General Grievous.
5. 2 Tarantareks, 2 Leviathans and 2 Rancors.
6. Mace Windu.
7. Anakin Skywalker.
8. Count Dooku.
9. Yoda.
10 Exar Kun.

Bare in mind that while I gave Bane no healing or rest, his orbalisk armour heals non lethal wounds near instantaneously, and his armour constantly pumps adrenaline into his system, keeping him constantly hyped up and filling him with energy.

Gets smashed at mace windu

Losses at Windu.

I think that he will be in a big trouble at 5th level.

And even if he manages to survive at 5th level then 6th level will be perhaps his last fight.

Bane is good but not that good one thing is sure he doesn't get through this alive, agree with you all about level 6 thats it

Bbnae is good but loses to Master Windu

He maybe loses at 5, but defiantly at 6.

^Agreed.

If it wasn't the Geonosis arena Greivous might be able to surprise him and not get demolished by force attacks before he can enter lightsaber combat. However, that's not the case, and we don't need to discuss that. Bane dies at Windu.

3 will actually be hard and if this is Obsession Asajj. But he'll definately take them. Hmm, I know nothing about those things in #5 but Mace does have a chance if Bane is tired. But wait, the armor is pumping him with unlimited amounts of adrenaline so he won't get tired. Then he'll likely beat Mace, PoD Bane is only slightly below Mace, the armor will give him the advantage that he needs. Hmm, he could make it all the way to Kun, I mean, if he makes it past Mace Anakin and Dooku are below Mace and Yoda's only a tiny bit above him. So Yoda or Kun.

Give me a break. Mace can punch through solid durasteel, the orbalisks'll be nothing

And, given the uberness of Shatterpoint, Bane'll end up with a lightsaber through his face.

Mace could probably punch a hole through Banes OA ala Shatterpoint as well.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Give me a break. Mace can punch through solid durasteel, the orbalisks'll be nothing

Orbalisks are immune to the cutting power of a lightsaber, so how exactly will Mace be able to punch through them? And wasn't it in the inconsistent CW cartoons that Mace was able to do that?



Shatterpoint only reveals weaknesses, it doesn't grant the user the skill or power to capitalise on them. Anyone with a brain could see that his face is the only part of his body that isn't covered by armour, so shatterpoint won't even factor in.

CW cartoons are canon, Mace's battle on dantooine was referenced in the NEC, then Mace has Vaapad which will turn all Banes hatred and dark power back on him, not to mention he's a superior duelist. Mace wins with difficulty.

I wouldn't call them canon, at least not C-canon, since the cartoons make the characters seem like force gods.

Plus a lightsaber can cut through those Battle Droids durasteel like a warm knife can cut through butter. Orbalisks can not be penetrated by a lightsaber. So orbalisks are FAR stronger than durasteel. More likely, if Mace tried to punch it he'd break his hand.

The CW cartoons are technically canon, but the abilities of the jedi inside them are considered inconsistencies, simply because it's ridiculous in comparison to what their movie counterparts can do.

Exactly, to assume that Mace can punch through something a lightsaber can't cut through is plain retarded.

Mace won't punch through Bane's armor, wtf. Shatterpoint lets Mace find someone's weaknesses, however since Bane has his armor, his only weakness is really his head. And any idiot can realize that, and shatterpoint only anaylzes the weaknesses, it doesn't give one the ability to still get to that weakness.

Exactly, shatterpoint is way overrated, and really, I see no way of Mace winning this.

Kopekz thought he might be the sith'ari (the sith's chosen one) aka the ultimate sith and perfect/near immortal being after only just one conversation with Bane. Bane was untrained at this point, Kopekz hadn't seen any displays of the force from Bane, and he knew who powerful sith were (he knew of people such as Darth Revan, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow), yet he still believed that Darth Bane could possibly become the most powerful of all of them, so clearly he sense that the darkside within Bane was on the next level.

Githany believed his power was beyond the level of pretty much any jedi or sith master when he had only received a few months worth of training. The jedi and sith during those times were pretty uber (most martial order of sith, had been in constant war with the jedi for hundreds of years..), this speaks for quite a lot.

Kaan, the leader of the BoD was scared shitless of him before he had ever even met him; this was based purely on descriptions of his power, and Bane scared the crap out of him.

When he was 18, he was able to instinctively choke his father to death, which greatly speaks for how prodigious he was, and how strong in the force he was.

He once lost his temper, and was able to instinctively project his fury on an entire room full of people, and drive them all wild with fury; that speaks for truly how strong he was in the darkside.

He pretty much mastered force lightning after just 1 hour of having learnt the technique, and was even able to create a miniature storm. By BotS, after having grown much more powerful, he would likely be able to replicate this to much greater effect.

He was able to release a wave of energy that was able to collapse the entire 20 story Rakatan Temple, and the temple wasn't even hit by the entire attack (it wasn't hit by the portion that hit Kas'im).

He was able to effortlessly choke Quordis to death like he was a child in seconds, and Quordis was one of the top sith in the BoD, the head of the academy in fact.

He was able to control the power of over 20 sith lords combined with his own and direct it to destroy an entire world. This speaks quite a lot for his mastery and control by that point.

He was able to pull a moon out of orbit, and pretty casually too given he did it while riding on top of a flying beast.

He knew every move and sequence of the saber staff perfectly (and those are the moves and sequences for all 7 forms, and not just the regular forms, but Kas'im's perfected forms), and thus would be able to wield one to the same effect as Kas'im. He would be able to switch between these different forms, giving him a somewhat unique style.

Sirak, the top apprentice at the BoD Academy was incredibly powerful; he was able to move in blurs (those are Yoda speeds), had mastered multiple forms..and Bane was able to completely outclass him in saber combat; his shatterpoint ability was so great that he was able to sense weaknesses in Sirak's style seconds after the duel began, and constantly throughout the battle, but held back because he wanted to humiliate Sirak, and tire him down first, and towards the end, was able to tool him with one masterful manoeuvre; his movements were faster than the eyes of everyone present could see, so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them. In other words, he was able to toy with and outclass someone as strong as Sirak, had the ability to end the fight in seconds, and constantly throughout the fight, and was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes of trained force user could see towards the end of a tiring duel. His speed here is incredible, and is much much greater by BotS.

He as good as defeated Kas'im in a duel; Kas'im was basically The master of the lightsaber; he mastered every from, every primary art of the saber, and then furthered and perfected each form and constantly refined his skills, and Kas'im was only able to defeat him when he used a style that was alien to Bane.

While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities.

Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, which constantly pumps dark side energies and adrenaline into his body, and strengthens his muscles and keeps them constantly flexed. It's also completely immune to the cutting power of even a lightsaber, and covers his entire body, except for his head (the only area where he can be physically affected), and a few joints where the gaps are too small for a lightsaber to pass through anyway. It also heals non lethal wounds instantaneously.

His knowledge base was also pretty considerable too;

1. He pretty much knew the entire BoD archives inside out. The archives were huge, and contained much information regarding sith history and lore.

2. He had received most of the teachings that the then current Masters could offer via Githany. Nothing too great, but still something.

3. He had gained most of the knowledge (the most important knowledge at least) found inside Darth Revan's holocron. Darth Revan probably has the single greatest knowledge base with the exception of Darth Sidious, whatever he later found in Nadd's tomb, and the Ancients .

4. He was able to access a jedi holocron. This would give him a great understanding of lightside powers as well as darkside ones.

5. He was able to plunder the tomb of Nadd's holocron, and gain access to his holocron. This source of knowledge, by Bane's own admission, was even greater than Revan's, and gave him the power to 'play with gravity and orbits like a child might play with coloured balls'.

Until Mace can do that^, I see no reason as to why he would beat Bane.

How does the 'cutting power' have anything to do with it?

Mace's battle on Dantooine was confirmed specifically in the databank and he can lunch six punches before someone can even blink...way faster than Baney boy.

@ allfg

You must remember that what happened to Darth Sidious when he fought against Mace. Mace would have defeated him, if Anakin would not have helped Sidious.

His Vaapad and Shatterpoint abilities are what actually makes him deadly against Sith Lords. He is a unique Jedi in this sense.

Bane might be more powerful then Mace. But you should note that Sidious is also more powerful then Mace and still this gave him no advantage.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ allfg

You must remember that what happened to Darth Sidious when he fought against Mace. Mace would have defeated him, if Anakin would not have helped Sidious.

His Vaapad and Shatterpoint abilities are what actually makes him deadly against Sith Lords. He is a unique Jedi in this sense.

Bane might be more powerful then Mace. But you should note that Sidious is also more powerful then Mace and still this gave him no advantage.

@S_W_LeGenD.

1. Sidious outclassed Mace, and held back from killing him, and let Mace beat him. I've argued this a hundred times, and it's pretty obvious. He didn't even force a force duel, which if Bane does, Mace would be screwed.

2. Bane is much more powerful than RotS Sidious, especially in saber combat.

3. Shatterpoint is overrated. Read what I and Spidervlad have been saying.

4. Vaapad is the one thing Mace has going for him, however Bane's saber style would also be alien to Mace Windu anyway, so they would both possess the same advantage here. There's also the fact that Vaapad is no better against darksiders than other forms, people seem to think that Vaapad is extra strong against darksiders, and have completely blown one line in the RotS novelisation out of proportion.

Originally posted by allfg
Exactly, shatterpoint is way overrated, and really, I see no way of Mace winning this.

Kopekz thought he might be the sith'ari (the sith's chosen one) aka the ultimate sith and perfect/near immortal being after only just one conversation with Bane. Bane was untrained at this point, Kopekz hadn't seen any displays of the force from Bane, and he knew who powerful sith were (he knew of people such as Darth Revan, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow), yet he still believed that Darth Bane could possibly become the most powerful of all of them, so clearly he sense that the darkside within Bane was on the next level.

Githany believed his power was beyond the level of pretty much any jedi or sith master when he had only received a few months worth of training. The jedi and sith during those times were pretty uber (most martial order of sith, had been in constant war with the jedi for hundreds of years..), this speaks for quite a lot.

Kaan, the leader of the BoD was scared shitless of him before he had ever even met him; this was based purely on descriptions of his power, and Bane scared the crap out of him.

When he was 18, he was able to instinctively choke his father to death, which greatly speaks for how prodigious he was, and how strong in the force he was.

He once lost his temper, and was able to instinctively project his fury on an entire room full of people, and drive them all wild with fury; that speaks for truly how strong he was in the darkside.

He pretty much mastered force lightning after just 1 hour of having learnt the technique, and was even able to create a miniature storm. By BotS, after having grown much more powerful, he would likely be able to replicate this to much greater effect.

He was able to release a wave of energy that was able to collapse the entire 20 story Rakatan Temple, and the temple wasn't even hit by the entire attack (it wasn't hit by the portion that hit Kas'im).

He was able to effortlessly choke Quordis to death like he was a child in seconds, and Quordis was one of the top sith in the BoD, the head of the academy in fact.

He was able to control the power of over 20 sith lords combined with his own and direct it to destroy an entire world. This speaks quite a lot for his mastery and control by that point.

He was able to pull a moon out of orbit, and pretty casually too given he did it while riding on top of a flying beast.

He knew every move and sequence of the saber staff perfectly (and those are the moves and sequences for all 7 forms, and not just the regular forms, but Kas'im's perfected forms), and thus would be able to wield one to the same effect as Kas'im. He would be able to switch between these different forms, giving him a somewhat unique style.

Sirak, the top apprentice at the BoD Academy was incredibly powerful; he was able to move in blurs (those are Yoda speeds), had mastered multiple forms..and Bane was able to completely outclass him in saber combat; his shatterpoint ability was so great that he was able to sense weaknesses in Sirak's style seconds after the duel began, and constantly throughout the battle, but held back because he wanted to humiliate Sirak, and tire him down first, and towards the end, was able to tool him with one masterful manoeuvre; his movements were faster than the eyes of everyone present could see, so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them. In other words, he was able to toy with and outclass someone as strong as Sirak, had the ability to end the fight in seconds, and constantly throughout the fight, and was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes of trained force user could see towards the end of a tiring duel. His speed here is incredible, and is much much greater by BotS.

He as good as defeated Kas'im in a duel; Kas'im was basically The master of the lightsaber; he mastered every from, every primary art of the saber, and then furthered and perfected each form and constantly refined his skills, and Kas'im was only able to defeat him when he used a style that was alien to Bane.

While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities.

Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, which constantly pumps dark side energies and adrenaline into his body, and strengthens his muscles and keeps them constantly flexed. It's also completely immune to the cutting power of even a lightsaber, and covers his entire body, except for his head (the only area where he can be physically affected), and a few joints where the gaps are too small for a lightsaber to pass through anyway. It also heals non lethal wounds instantaneously.

His knowledge base was also pretty considerable too;

1. He pretty much knew the entire BoD archives inside out. The archives were huge, and contained much information regarding sith history and lore.

2. He had received most of the teachings that the then current Masters could offer via Githany. Nothing too great, but still something.

3. He had gained most of the knowledge (the most important knowledge at least) found inside Darth Revan's holocron. Darth Revan probably has the single greatest knowledge base with the exception of Darth Sidious, whatever he later found in Nadd's tomb, and the Ancients .

4. He was able to access a jedi holocron. This would give him a great understanding of lightside powers as well as darkside ones.

5. He was able to plunder the tomb of Nadd's holocron, and gain access to his holocron. This source of knowledge, by Bane's own admission, was even greater than Revan's, and gave him the power to 'play with gravity and orbits like a child might play with coloured balls'.

Until Mace can do that^, I see no reason as to why he would beat Bane.

Good god Noobaris, you've copied and pasted this argument so many times already after it being defeated, it's nearly sad. This is seriously a waste of space, and bandwidth. And I suppose you added new bullshit like Bane's alleged age.. This isn't even worth attempting to refute, since it already was.

Originally posted by allfg
@S_W_LeGenD.


Yes, you've argued this a hundred times, and lost a hundred times. You still seem to think that trying to make an argument equates to victory. Unfortunately for you and your piss poor debating skills, Lucas said Mace overpowered him, so you have lost your 101st time. Congrats Noobaris.


Arguing against facts is your fortay, so no need to poke fun at you after reading this crap. Go back to the drawing board.


Nobody cares for your opinion because it doesn't fit into your beliefs. Canon is canon, the end.


Bane's saber style? What would that be? Oh right you don't know. There's nothing "Alien" about Bane's saber style, in fact he wasn't even known to be a good saber duelist. He knew Kas'im's moves backwards and forwards and still lost. Vaapad IS strong against dark siders, but with your logic, everything is exaggerated, blown out of proportion, or flat out wrong, if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs. Nice job going from a piss poor debater, to looking like a jackass arguing against facts.

Okay, a few thing about the shatterpoint/orbalisk situation:

1) The cutting power of a lightsaber is due to energy, and orbalisks may have a resistance to that energy (the way cortosis weave does), but that does not make them stronger or harder than durasteel, which Mace can apparently punch through. Meaning in terms of physical force, orbalisks could easily be more fragile than durasteel.

2)Of course any idiot can figure out that Bane's face is an opening, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence (who knows what they are talking about) can also see that:

3) Mace could find a shatterpoint that isn't his face. Shatterpoint is in no way useless in this fight. He could hit Bane and the knee, and have it split his femur like a twig or something. The man can tap a diamond (I repeat: tap), and have it shatter into a million pieces. With a full swing, powered by his force augmented strength and speed, using Vaapad, the most powerful form, he could break Bane.

4) One of the Stupidest things I've seen:

Originally posted by Spidervlad
shatterpoint only anaylzes the weaknesses, it doesn't give one the ability to still get to that weakness.

Someone has no idea what the Hell they are talking about. Yes, Shatterpoint analyzes weakness, and gives them the opportunity to capitalize on it. Do you know what Shatterpoint is? It is the force telling you where to hit, and if you take that attack, they're done for.

Now for a few things that may not have to do with that situation, but are relevant to the fight.

1) Mace has easily shown to be faster than Bane, but, if you want to argue otherwise, it really won't matter. Mace takes the dark side that his opponents use to augment their speed, and uses it as his own, meaning, he gets just as much of a boost in speed and strength and such as they do.

2) Mace is on par with Yoda (the most powerful Jedi, pre-Luke), who is as powerful as Sidious, and Mace beat Sidious in lightsaber combat. Relevance? Sidious > Bane (That is a fact, but the margin can only be determined by feats, where Sids trumps Bane).

3) Mo' fukin' Vaapad. Bane has been taught patters of attack and defense to fight Jedi. Here, he is up against a style he has never seen, which happens to be completely unpredictable, and also happens to be the most powerful style. Bane tries to attack him with rage, he gets all that back in his face. If he doesn't, he gets his ass handed to him.

4)
Mace beat Asajj.
Mace beat Sora.
Mace killed Jango freaking Fett speedy quick... without using force powers.
Mace punked Quinlain.
Mace beat Greivous a few times. (Lightsaber, force crush, force... speeder to the body)
Mace took on Dooku and Dooku called for reinforcements to get away.
Mace stopped an avalanche with the force.
The whole Sidious thing.

There is a lot more, but... meh. Basically: Watch Clone Wars, read a few comics on SW Timeline, and Read Shatterpoint .


And despite all that, I'm willing to give Mace this after a tough match. Bane is too physically impressive and skilled to be a pushover, even for Mace.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good god Noobaris, you've copied and pasted this argument so many times already after it being defeated, it's nearly sad. This is seriously a waste of space, and bandwidth. And I suppose you added new bullshit like Bane's alleged age.. This isn't even worth attempting to refute, since it already was.

That's right, I copied my earlier argument, and what? It's better than what you do, which is copying other people's arguments. And FYI, this has never been refuted, but please, feel free to try, I like it when dumbasses step up to me.

Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy. Anyway:

I don't have a problem with most of the things on your list (other than the over-glorified spin you put on everything). However, it's still not enough to take on Windu. He's just not that good.

And about the Mace/ Palpatine fight, you're dead wrong. The "most likely explanation" is what Lucas and the novels say; They were even, with Mace drawing off Palpatines darkside energies for strength, and then Mace overpowered him with Shatterpoint.

Originally posted by allfg
That's right, I copied my earlier argument, and what? It's better than what you do, which is copying other people's arguments. And FYI, this has never been refuted, but please, feel free to try, I like it when dumbasses step up to me.

Still in denial that anybody with a pulse can destroy your sad excuse for arguments? Stupid people usually are.

Originally posted by allfg
Oh my days, you are about to get owned.
By who, you? Please, you've yet to own anybody on this forum and you sure as hell aren't about to start.


Gee, lets pick out the stupidity here..
1. Sidious was dominating the 3 B level Jedi never Mace. This was confirmed later by Lucas who said you'd have to be either Yoda or the Mace to defeat the Emperor. Your entire argument goes to shit here but I'll continue.
2. Lucas confirmed Mace overpowering Sidious. I'm sure Sidious underestimated Mace the way Yoda underestimated Sidious but no matter, Mace used his shatterpoint and vaapad abilities to turn the darkside against Sidious.


Much better? From whose perspective? Better as in him trying to run away from Yoda, or better as in him trying to gain the higher ground when he realized he had to fight Yoda? I didn't see him run away from Mace. Not to mention Yoda did NOT have Vaapad and shatterpoint, where Mace did.


Your right, his foresight was so good that he didn't see Vader turn on him and throw him down the shaft. His foresight was so good that he couldn't see Yoda surviving Order 66. I guess you forgot his surprised expression. His foresight was almost unmatched, but that doesn't make it flawless.


No, it's not, because Mace overpowered him with shatterpoint and Vaapad, and this was confirmed by Lucas in the commentary, so your argument dies again.


It means Mace was a better lightsaber duelist.




Like who? Coming from the one who's been owned in every single debate here, and has never won an argument, you're not exactly a good judge on who's intelligent and you lack any credibility to continue typing after this pwnage.




Again, says the one who's been pwned in virtually every argument. How do you deal with your denial exactly? Alcohol? Anti Depressants? canon is canon means just that. That doesn't mean "If I don't believe it, it's not canon".




No, he knows almost every move Kas'im knows because Kas'im trained him. This argument has been destroyed a million times with the Obiwan vs. Anakin example. Keep trying though.




You tell me, in your 6 times getting banned and few months on this forum, you haven't won a single argument.



I could continue but this pwnage should be enough for you. Go back to the drawing board Noobaris, or take your antidepressants so you can postpone living in reality.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, a few thing about the shatterpoint/orbalisk situation:

1) The cutting power of a lightsaber is due to energy, and orbalisks may have a resistance to that energy (the way cortosis weave does), but that does not make them stronger or harder than durasteel, which Mace can apparently punch through. Meaning in terms of physical force, orbalisks could easily be more fragile than durasteel.

Actually, the orbalisks differ in nature, in the sense that it's pretty much resistant to the cutting power of anything, no matter how strong or sharp. This is stated in the DSSB, and can be seen in BotS when it has the same effect on the giant beast bird that attacked Bane. It's not an energy thing like cortosis. I also find it funny that you think Bane would actually let Mace just go and punch him..



1. Shatterpoint didn't exactly prove too useful against Mace or Sidious, and Mace even comments that he faces difficulty in using it during combat. Against someone as quick and aggressive as Bane, he'd never be able to capitalise on Bane's shatterpoint.

2. The point is, due to the orbalisk armour, Bane's only weakness is his face.

3. The diamond you're talking about is fallible. The orbalisks aren't in the same sense.



Actually, Spiderman was 100% correct. Shatterpoint only points out weaknesses. It doesn't give Mace the skill or power to capitalise on those weaknesses.



No he hasn't, refer to my post, even his inconsistent EU abilities aren't as great as what Bane can do. There's also the fact that the highest form of canon shows how slow Mace is, and arguing against that is arguing against canon.



Again, this is a complete mistruth. All this overhyping of Vaapad is due to one single line in the RotS novelisation being taken out of proportion. Now if you really want to argue that Vaapad alone would grant Mace the ability to match Bane's speed, prove up.



On par doesn't actually mean = to. And the movies disagree, anyway.



Refer to my earlier post, Sidious let Mace win, and held back. There's also the fact that Sidious' forte was his force abilities, so it's kinda irrelevant anyway.



1. It's not a fact, the quote was inconclusive. There's also the fact that reference material is lesser than the stuff it's based on - original source material and is subject to being retconned by in-universe evidence.

2. In response to your second statement, that's 100% false. Sidious only pulls off top tier level feats after the PT. PT Sidious is in no way on Bane's level, refer to my earlier post.



Bane's style is also unpredictable. Now that's Mace's one advantage, one that Bane also shares, now disregarding that, Bane is much faster, Bane is much stronger, Bane is much stronger in the force, Bane is much more technically gifted, and possesses armour that almost makes him physically invincible. There's also the fact that Bane doesn't actually need to even use his saber, and can just own him with the force.



Again, it's all a mistruth. Mace isn't invincible against any darksider like you see to think. And to add on to what I was saying earlier, it won't even come to that, Bane is far too quick and aggressive, and will put him on the defencive as easily as Sidious in RotS. Wait, hold up, scratch that: not just as easily, but with way more ease.




That's great, now let's compare that to what Bane has done (refer to my megapost above)...



More like Bane tools him in a saber fight, and even worse with the force.

*Sigh*

This is just for you, allfg:

Vaapad, the seventh form of lightsaber combat, takes its name from a notoriously dangerous predator native to the moons of Sarapin: a vaapad attacks its prey with whipping strikes of its blindingly fast tentacles. Most have at least seven. It is not uncommon for them to have as many as twelve; the largest ever killed had twenty-three. With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.
Vaapad is as aggressive and powerful as its namesake, but its power comes at great risk: immersion in Vaapad opens the gates that restrain one's inner darkness. To use Vaapad, a Jedi must allow himself to enjoy the fight; he must give himself over to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. Vaapad is a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side.
Mace Windu created this style, and he was its only living master.
This was Vaapad's ultimate test.
Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-
But he could feel them in the Force.
The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent.
And it was darkening.
Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.
There was no Jedi restraint here.
Mace Windu was cutting loose.
Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being.
Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-
And let it fountain out again.
He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.
There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.
He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.
He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-
Neither did he have power over it.
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.
The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.
Feeling for its shatterpoint.
He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the
now-
And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.
The chosen one was here.
Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish.
His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge.
Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop.
Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.


Still refuse to look at anything that isn't "Bane is teh roxorz!!1!"?

You are a blind little man.

Okay, everyone who hasn't been banned multiple times in the past few months, do you agree that Mace would win?

Why would we have to agree? This is an argument against Noobaris which is a guaranteed victory. Of course Mace would win, there's no doubt.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy.

Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...



Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..



Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stonger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.



All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by allfg
Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...



Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..



Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stonger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.



All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.

See, this is like Vaapad. You do this to my arguments, and I just reflect it.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy.

Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...



Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..



Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stronger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.



All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
*Sigh*

This is just for you, allfg:

Vaapad, the seventh form of lightsaber combat, takes its name from a notoriously dangerous predator native to the moons of Sarapin: a vaapad attacks its prey with whipping strikes of its blindingly fast tentacles. Most have at least seven. It is not uncommon for them to have as many as twelve; the largest ever killed had twenty-three. With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.
Vaapad is as aggressive and powerful as its namesake, but its power comes at great risk: immersion in Vaapad opens the gates that restrain one's inner darkness. To use Vaapad, a Jedi must allow himself to enjoy the fight; he must give himself over to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. Vaapad is a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side.
Mace Windu created this style, and he was its only living master.
This was Vaapad's ultimate test.
Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-
But he could feel them in the Force.
The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent.
And it was darkening.
Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.
There was no Jedi restraint here.
Mace Windu was cutting loose.
Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being.
Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-
And let it fountain out again.
He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.
There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.
He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.
He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-
Neither did he have power over it.
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.
The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.
Feeling for its shatterpoint.
He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the
now-
And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.
The chosen one was here.
Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish.
His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge.
Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop.
Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.


Still refuse to look at anything that isn't "Bane is teh roxorz!!1!"?

You are a blind little man.

Okay, everyone who hasn't been banned multiple times in the past few months, do you agree that Mace would win?

Please explain what point you're trying to prove. And while you're doing that, explain how this passage proves that, don't just post the passage without an explanation.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
See, this is like Vaapad. You do this to my arguments, and I just reflect it.

Why, aren't we witty today.

Same post, but nice try.

Anakin couldn't even see Mace when he was fighting.

Anyway, let's just ignore what allfg has to say, because, it's all been said before, and he is a fanboy. I could post a fight between the two and show Mace winning, and, he wouldn't believe it.

So? Mace after a tough fight?

OK, I'm done, you guys are all movie fanboys, and anybody can see that I've already owned all of you.

Originally posted by allfg
Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...
Oh, **** off. Hopefully off the internet forever



Liar! Numerous lies from you constantly.



Wrong!

Wrong! Can he take an army on his own? hit a man six times before he can blink? Move so fast, you can't even tell how many arms he has until he stops? No? Ok.
Lying idiot

Don't see him breaking durasteel.
Lying idiot

So, one punch to the face?
And btw, moron, prove those Orbalisks are 100 percent invincible.
Retconned stories are all we can expect from stupid, lying fanboys.

As opposed to the guy who was a master swordsman at 13? Whatever.
Lying idiot loses. Logic wins.

Originally posted by allfg
OK, I'm done, you guys are all movie fanboys, and anybody can see that I've already owned all of you.
Translation: WAAAAAAH!!! STOP OWNING ME!!!!

Lightsnake, you haven't owned shit, all you guys are doing is proving that appeal to majority truly is a logical fallacy. Your whining at USW also proves that you're clearly upset that Bane would make Mace his b1tch.

The dirt cliff shook, buckled, and collapsed. With a subterranean roar that buried even the thunder of the eruption and the clamor of the steamcrawler's laboring engine, hundreds of tons of dirt and rock poured into the river of lava...Nearly all his concentration stayed submerged in the Force, spread throughout the slide, using a wide-focus Force grip to stabilize the rubble while he scrambled down to the steamcrawler's roof.

Originally posted by allfg
Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...
No, you lose credibility when you lose every argument you've ever participated in, live in a constant world of denial, have terrible debating and logic skills, and constantly argue against facts and canon. That makes you an idiot without credibility.




Do you even know what you're talking about? I didn't think so.




Stronger in the force? VERY debatable. Faster? Not even close. Physically stronger? So? Mace can break through that armor, and Bane is not more gifted, try again.




Yes, Mace overpowered him. That means Sidious was not faking and did not let Mace win, unless you want me to define "overpowered" for you. And as usual, when your argument fails and you can't argue against logic and facts anymore, a "line has been drawn out of proportion". I didn't know a blubbering idiot such as yourself was the authority on what is blown out of proportion and what isn't. But that's just me, tool.

Originally posted by allfg
Lightsnake, you haven't owned shit, all you guys are doing is proving that appeal to majority truly is a logical fallacy. Your whining at USW also proves that you're clearly upset that Bane would make Mace his b1tch.

Hey fool, take your anti depressants, because you're still lying to yourself. When you have to constantly tell yourself that you've pwned everyone, or hell ANYBODY, then you know your life needs to change. Come back when you have an argument, til then continue getting pwned. And it's not an appeal to the majority when the majority has a logical argument and you have dick. Tool..

Sexy, you're above that, don't let him get to you. WHile I doubt you'd get a ban for anything you've said, you don't need a warning over him.

Anyway, Bane loses at six pretty handily due to fatigue possibilities in this out-of-order gauntlet.

Oh he's not getting to me. I'm just making sure he realizes that he needs to sign off the internet for once, and unplug his modem. That is a hell of a lot cheaper than anti depressants and therapist visits.

Haha. No, maybe if he learns to listen here, he can apply it to everyday life. We are his therapy. However, if he's too stubborn (that seems to be the case), I agree.

allfg: Facts FTW. Just because Bane is your favorite character doesn't mean he wins all the time. (This is not an excuse for you to make one-sided Bane threads)

STFU and stop flaming at each other, everyone can have their own opinion. Debating is okey, BUT not flaming or bashing. Don't make me report on any of you, please. Everyone is set on their own opinion, and I happen to agree with allfg. Clone Wars Cartoons sucked, and I don't think taking examples of Mace punching through steel there sais anything. In the cartoon, everyone around seems like their invincible. Even Anakin brought down a whole factory by just using the force -.-

Originally posted by Spidervlad
STFU and stop flaming at each other, everyone can have their own opinion. Debating is oky, BUT not flaming or bashing. Don't make me report on any of you, please. Everyone is set on their own opinion

Agreed.



Why? Based on what?



Just because you didn't like them doesn't make them any less canon. And yes, it does say something, it says taht Mace can punch through droids.



Cool...

Now, I can gues you haven't read Shatterpoint, have you?

yet another idiot who thinks we care more about his opinion than canon sources.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How does the 'cutting power' have anything to do with it?

Mace's battle on Dantooine was confirmed specifically in the databank and he can lunch six punches before someone can even blink...way faster than Baney boy.
The fact that a lightsaber can't cut through it means that it is incredibly strong. Honestly lightsnake, how the f*ck is Mace supposed to punch through a substance that it strong enough to block a lightsaber? Not to mention that fact that this isn't a fist fight anyway, so how fast Mace can punch doesn't mean shit.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
yet another idiot who thinks we care more about his opinion than canon sources.

Reported to Mod for bashing even after warning.


A lightsaber can cut through durasteel like peanut butter, droids are made out of durasteel. Now if a lightsaber can't penetrate the Orbelisk armor, then i'm preety sure it should be stronger then Durasteel. But I remember someone making a point of the Orbelisk armor having a material which specificaly only defends the wearer from lightsaber energy. Maybe, we don't know.

Bane knows the moves of all styles, save for Vapaad. That means he can use them, and therefore can use styles that lightsiders like Obi Wan Kenobi used. The defensive one? Forgot it's name, sorry. Then, Vapaad won't be very affective versus a defensive lightsaber style, remember, Vapaad takes an opponents agression and practically throws it back at them.

I won't say Mace is ALOT faster then Bane, their either equal or Mace is faster by a little, but I think Bane's armor will let Bane outmatch Mace in speed.


I read shatterpoint, and I also read NJO.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Reported to Mod for bashing even after warning.


A lightsaber can cut through durasteel like peanut butter, droids are made out of durasteel. Now if a lightsaber can't penetrate the Orbelisk armor, then i'm preety sure it should be stronger then Durasteel. But I remember someone making a point of the Orbelisk armor having a material which specificaly only defends the wearer from lightsaber energy. Maybe, we don't know.

Bane knows the moves of all styles, save for Vapaad. That means he can use them, and therefore can use styles that lightsiders like Obi Wan Kenobi used. The defensive one? Forgot it's name, sorry. Then, Vapaad won't be very affective versus a defensive lightsaber style, remember, Vapaad takes an opponents agression and practically throws it back at them.

I won't say Mace is ALOT faster then Bane, their either equal or Mace is faster by a little, but I think Bane's armor will let Bane outmatch Mace in speed.


I read shatterpoint, and I also read NJO.

How is 'energy resistant' equivalent to 'completely invulnerable' now? Ludo Kressh destroys his saber resistant With Sword.

Oh, and Bane didn't know all the styles, that's bull. He knew Form V. He knew how to recognize other styles, that was it.

Moreover, Bane has never demonstrated Mace's speed.

Originally posted by darthsith19
The fact that a lightsaber can't cut through it means that it is incredibly strong. Honestly lightsnake, how the f*ck is Mace supposed to punch through a substance that it strong enough to block a lightsaber? Not to mention that fact that this isn't a fist fight anyway, so how fast Mace can punch doesn't mean shit.

gee, I dunno, how was Ludo Kressh able to break something capable of blocking lightsabers?

Could it be that these are TWO COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT CONCEPTS?!

simple concepts elude simple people.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
gee, I dunno, how was Ludo Kressh able to break something capable of blocking lightsabers?

Could it be that these are TWO COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT CONCEPTS?!
When the f*ck did Ludo break something that a saber couldn't?

He broke a Sith Sword. Those can't be cut by lightsabers.

Sith Sword is most probably weaved by cortois or something, because it's not energy powered.

Think of KOTOR's normal sword

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
He broke a Sith Sword. Those can't be cut by lightsabers.
Correction - it can't be cut by a lightsaber when the Sith hold them and make the purple energy waves around them. I don't think that Ludo's sword was being powered like that when he broke it, was it?

Can you give me the name of the Comic Ludo was in, so I can check?

Golden Age of the Sith.

My point doth stand, though. Moreover, are you really going to tell me that the Sith Empire, isolated from the galaxy had any access to cortosis ore or weave, which'd be found fatr, far away?

They used alchemy on their weapons

Exactly, they used Alchemy on their swords and it's unlikely that Ludo used it on his sword when he broke it.

Wait, thats the one where in teh beginning they introduce Battle Meditation, right?

So if they didn't have any of that stuff it prooved my point that Orbalisk armor can only be broken by something more powerful then a lightsaber, so efcourse it can't be broken by a fist.

Youre missing lightsnake's point. They created their swords with sith alchemy, so it's not like you can turn it off and on, it's there indefinitely.

Okey, so if Orbelisk armor was made from Sith alchemy, such as the kind Exar Kun could do, won't Sith Alchemy withstand a punch O_o

Orbalisks are natural creatures as is...they weren't created by Bane.

Considering impact and energy are two very different things, there's no real controversy

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Youre missing lightsnake's point. They created their swords with sith alchemy, so it's not like you can turn it off and on, it's there indefinitely.
No, it's NOT on indefinitely. Look here:
http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_The_Golden_Age_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_The_Golden_Age_of_the_Sith_049.jpg


and here:
http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_The_Golden_Age_of_the_Sith/Tales_of_the_Jedi_-_The_Golden_Age_of_the_Sith_050.jpg


They only turn on when the purple sith magic gets brought around them.

Orbalisks are small parasites and they have very protective shells around them, which results in the armor. I don't think a lightsaber or a punch would make alot of difference, because this isn't a "forcefield" were talking about.

again: The durability of orbalisks were never, ever, ever tested to any great extent

DS, that's called darkside energies surrounding the ancient sith. Their swords were forged through sith alchemy already. Understand that.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
DS, that's called darkside energies surrounding the ancient sith. Their swords were forged through sith alchemy already. Understand that.
Where's the proof that they were formed in sith alchemy?

Easy. The Ancient sith didn't use lightsabers, instead they used sith swords forged from sith alchemy and resistant to lightsabers.

Post the picture where a sith DOES parry a lightsaber. (It is somewhere where the ancients fight jedi)
If it shines, and has that field of energy around it, DS is right, if not, he's not....

The orbalisks are a different case than cortosis or sith alchemy, it's not an energy thing, as can clearly be seen when it has the same effect on a giant bird's claws as it does on a lightsaber. There's nothing to suggest that the orbalisks have any weaknesses like the chrystal that Mace was able to shatter, and considering that they're darkside creatures, I doubt it. Mace will not be able to punch through them, and Bane will not give him the opportunity to try. That's ridiculous to say. There's also the fact that the CW cartoon jedi are ridiculously overpowered in comparison to what the movies show us, and their skill and ability should be treated as inconsistencies. And really, even if Mace had actually punched through durasteel, that isn't even a testament to his physical strength, but the fact that he sensed some sort of weakness in the battled droid's armour. Bane on the other hand was pretty much as physically strong as humans get, he was a giant, described as a 'mountain of muscle', and had spent his whole life doing constant hard labour in the mines. The constant beatings he received from his father as well as the constant brawls he went through would have made him pretty strong too. Now the fact that even without the force or anything, he's as strong as he is, add in the force, as well as the orbalisks, and he's definitely stronger than Mace.

Yeah, yeah, we know. They can do anythingz because you say so.

When he can punch through solid durasteel or super battle droids, et back to me. Until then, **** off, brat

so...CW characters are ridiculously overpowered, but EU characters aren't? Please.

"It is said that the orbalisk's armor is so durable that lightsabers have a hard time penetrating it, making a wearer basically immune to lightsaber attacks."

So having a hard time is different then not being able to. And if shatterpoint can find weaknesses, then it shouldn't be too long before it gets through, if he doesn't shove it through his face first.

Indeed. Mace's mastery of shatterpoint is amazing (far moreso than Bane's - if Bane even possesses the skill), and it will allow him to locate and identify the orbalisks's weaknesses. Mace's physical strength is also extremely astonishing.

There is no weakness in Orbalisk armor, jeeze. If it's a weakness such as some acid that destroys it, thats not what Shatterpoint does. Shatterpoint locates fragile points of the body/structure. However I don't think that the Ban will feel anything under the Orbalisk armor if Mace attempts to punch him at some point. Maybe he can find a part of the Orbalisk Armor that is weakest , but that won't help much. Mace will have to push his lightsaber into the same spot many times. Bane is a skilled Dueler, he won't let that happen, comeone now, don't be silly.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
There is no weakness in Orbalisk armor, jeeze. If it's a weakness such as some acid that destroys it, thats not what Shatterpoint does. Shatterpoint locates fragile points of the body/structure. However I don't think that the Ban will feel anything under the Orbalisk armor if Mace attempts to punch him at some point. Maybe he can find a part of the Orbalisk Armor that is weakest , but that won't help much. Mace will have to push his lightsaber into the same spot many times. Bane is a skilled Dueler, he won't let that happen, comeone now, don't be silly.

And who do you know that there isn't no weakness in orbalisk armor, we are talking about maybe a crack at less the a milimeter, have you testet the armor for such a mistake ??? plus Bane has never dueled against a user with the combination of Form VII and Vaapad, who is using shatterpoints against him .

Mace did to toe on toe with one of the greatest sith lords of all times nearly beated him, sorry but I cannot imagine mace not holding the line until he locates the shatterpoint.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
There is no weakness in Orbalisk armor, jeeze. If it's a weakness such as some acid that destroys it, thats not what Shatterpoint does. Shatterpoint locates fragile points of the body/structure. However I don't think that the Ban will feel anything under the Orbalisk armor if Mace attempts to punch him at some point. Maybe he can find a part of the Orbalisk Armor that is weakest , but that won't help much. Mace will have to push his lightsaber into the same spot many times. Bane is a skilled Dueler, he won't let that happen, comeone now, don't be silly.

Okay, there's no way you've read Shatterpoint.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
There is no weakness in Orbalisk armor, jeeze. If it's a weakness such as some acid that destroys it, thats not what Shatterpoint does. Shatterpoint locates fragile points of the body/structure. However I don't think that the Ban will feel anything under the Orbalisk armor if Mace attempts to punch him at some point. Maybe he can find a part of the Orbalisk Armor that is weakest , but that won't help much. Mace will have to push his lightsaber into the same spot many times. Bane is a skilled Dueler, he won't let that happen, comeone now, don't be silly.
Prove it...prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely NO weakness in orbalisks. And prove that its harder than durasteel.

Mace can just cut of his head, try to heal that.

Hey its orbalisks it can heal ANYTHING it can even ressurrect the dead

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Prove it...prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely NO weakness in orbalisks. And prove that its harder than durasteel.

First of all, the only weakness in the armor is like 1 mm crack, which not even a lightsaber can fit through, so it's no use too Mace.
Lightsaber cuts through durasteel, while orbalisk armor can block lightsaber. Added to that, at the time when Orbalisk armor was created, they probably didn't have cortiois ore, so it's no cortoise.

So, what....he slams his fist into it with the strength that can rip through strong durasteel and makes the armor moot?

We've already proven that Orbalisks are stronger than durasteel, you've provided no proof that durasteel can be punched through, in the case of the unknown the negative wins.

Okay allfg, I had enough of your retard argument of 'Coincidence that Anakin came when Sidious was disarmed?!? I THINK NOT'. It's not coincidence, it's cliche. I repeat cliche.

It happens in 3/4 of action movies. A villain is about to kill a hero, but suddenly a companion/sidekick kills the villain first. ZoMg, coincidence!! No, cliche. Star Wars is following the cliche. Sidious is a villain about to get killed by Mace, then the cliche comes, Anakin enters and chops off Mace's hand. Again CLICHE.

IT HAPPENS ON 3/4 OF ACTION MOVIES. STAR WARS IS ACTION MOVIES. George Lucas himself said that Mace owned Sidious. I'd rather believe him than your stupid theory.

Now please stop posting allfg, your reducing my IQ.

And you are reducing MY IQ with an equally stupid post. It was not coincidence, it was no cliche. It was explained in either the ROTS commentary or the novelization.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And you are reducing MY IQ with an equally stupid post. It was not coincidence, it was no cliche. It was explained in either the ROTS commentary or the novelization.

I like reducing IQ's, cause I am king of n00bs. Please quote it then. Cause IMO, it was cliche. How many times did you see, when some guys is pwning some guy, then the some guy comes and the beats the guy who was beating some guy? I saw it 50000000 times.

Originally posted by darthsith19
We've already proven that Orbalisks are stronger than durasteel, you've provided no proof that durasteel can be punched through, in the case of the unknown the negative wins.

No. You showed Orbalisks are energy resistance.

A solid strike and a saber are two very different things. Care to explain next how Kevlar can stop a knife?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Care to explain next how Kevlar can stop a knife?

Wow, it can't? I learn new things everyday here.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. You showed Orbalisks are energy resistance.

A solid strike and a saber are two very different things. Care to explain next how Kevlar can stop a knife?

Lightsnake, it isn't an energy thing with orbalisks, as can be seen when they have the same effect against a lightsaber as they do against a giant bird's claws.

Originally posted by Black Dalek
Okay allfg, I had enough of your retard argument of 'Coincidence that Anakin came when Sidious was disarmed?!? I THINK NOT'. It's not coincidence, it's cliche. I repeat cliche.

It happens in 3/4 of action movies. A villain is about to kill a hero, but suddenly a companion/sidekick kills the villain first. ZoMg, coincidence!! No, cliche. Star Wars is following the cliche. Sidious is a villain about to get killed by Mace, then the cliche comes, Anakin enters and chops off Mace's hand. Again CLICHE.

IT HAPPENS ON 3/4 OF ACTION MOVIES. STAR WARS IS ACTION MOVIES. George Lucas himself said that Mace owned Sidious. I'd rather believe him than your stupid theory.

Now please stop posting allfg, your reducing my IQ.

Out of story explanations in no way act as a valid explanation for why something inside the story happens.

Seriously, why are you even posting to me, go back to watching Doctor Who you wanabee Blaxican, debating isn't your thing.

Cat got your tongue, Lightsnake?

Originally posted by allfg
Out of story explanations in no way act as a valid explanation for why something inside the story happens.

Seriously, why are you even posting to me, go back to watching Doctor Who you wanabee Blaxican, debating isn't your thing.

I was king of n00bs WAAAAY before Blaxican. In fact, I was in KMC before Blaxican. Not to mention, been here longing than you.

Now check this out:

This is chewbacca http://susanmernit.blogspot.com/chewbacca.jpg

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this debate/thread? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this debate! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a member debating about this Sidious moment, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're thinking deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed debate, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must admit defeat! The debate rests.


Beat that Bane Fanboy.

Did I mention that being funny isn't your thing either?

No you did not, but check this out: herbdance, look at him dancing. It's funny and awesome! Look at the silly dancer!

Originally posted by Black Dalek
I was king of n00bs WAAAAY before Blaxican. In fact, I was in KMC before Blaxican. Not to mention, been here longing than you.

Now check this out:

This is chewbacca http://susanmernit.blogspot.com/chewbacca.jpg

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this debate/thread? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this debate! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a member debating about this Sidious moment, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're thinking deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed debate, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must admit defeat! The debate rests.


Beat that Bane Fanboy.

Oh no Chewbacca defence, that means automatic victory, their's nothing we can do, he won.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Oh no Chewbacca defence, that means automatic victory, their's nothing we can do, he won.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/evillaugh.gif

I have won! C'mon Dancing Man, let us danz! herbdance

Yea lets dance, to Mc Hammer music-its Hammer time, cant touch this.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea lets dance, to Mc Hammer music-its Hammer time, cant touch this.

Can't touch this, nu nu nu nu nu herbdance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4

Lets keep on dancing.

Originally posted by allfg
Lightsnake, it isn't an energy thing with orbalisks, as can be seen when they have the same effect against a lightsaber as they do against a giant bird's claws.

And a Giant Birds claws = a force charged punch from Mace Windu?

You'd have to prove that bird can cut through Durasteel to even have a point.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And a Giant Birds claws = a force charged punch from Mace Windu?

You'd have to prove that bird can cut through Durasteel to even have a point.

Forget Mace or the giant bird claw, but remember the DANZ! herbdance

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And a Giant Birds claws = a force charged punch from Mace Windu?

You'd have to prove that bird can cut through Durasteel to even have a point.

Wow, way to miss the point. I was pointing out that it wasn't just an energy thing like with cortosis, and that the main premise behind the armour is that it's pretty much unbreakable. And again, I'd like to see Mace even get a hit on the armour without getting his arm sliced off.

No, its not you've YET to prove that the armour is unbreakable, its been tested by a bird and Bane slashing ONCE at the Orbalsik.

Are you dumb? It can withstand the cutting power of a lightsaber, and it's been proven that it's not just an energy based immunity.

Originally posted by allfg
Are you dumb? It can withstand the cutting power of a lightsaber, and it's been proved that it's not just an energy based immunity.

Nebaris, its been hit ONE TIME with a saber, its NEVER been continually tested against multiple saber blows, its been proved that a random bird on Dxun can't cut it with claws, again that is NOT the same thing as a punch from Windu. Use damn head for once retard.

AC, the armour has been stated in the darkside sourcebook as being completely resistant to the cutting power of a saber, and basically immune to it. Nothing can break through something better than a saber can, and seeing as it has been proven that the defence provided by the orbalisks isn't solely against energy, I think it's pretty clear that the armour is unbreakable. Oh and I'll 'use damn head' as soon as you learn to make sense.

And yet we have anther source guide saying EVERYTHING eventually falls to a lightsaber, the Orbalisk has been tested under one blow, then we look at everything else that is supposed "completely lightsaber resistant"

Mandalorian Iron - was broken by a saber

Cortosis - was broken by a saber

Sith Sword infused with the Dark Side - broken by hand

What makes the Orbalisk any different?

AGAIN some bird on Dxun =/= Mace Windu

Use your head.

Not like this matters at all Bane can't beat Mace in the first place.

Does that include another lightsaber? A forcefield? No, clearly not everything falls to a lightsaber, in other words your source is wrong, and mine is right. And I'd love to know your source, because you're quite clearly talking bs, and I doubt it exists.



Cortosis /= Orbalisks.
Mandalorian Iron /= Orbalisks.
Sith Alchemy /= Orbalisks.

To put simply, just because you've pointed out how other materials are fallible, that in no way means that orbalisks must be as well. We have a source directly stating that the orbalisks are immune to the cutting power of a lightsaber, and nothing contradicts that (that's right, your made up source that fails anyway doesn't contradict it).



Again, way to miss the point. I was merely pointing out that the orbalisks defend against any material in the same manner, and not just energy based material.

Use your head.



I'd really love to see your argument. I'll even be kind and let you use your invalid EU bs.

Weapons and technology states that every solid material will eventually break from a saber blade itself.

Posted by Lightsnake

I find that funny coming from someone (that I've seen) who's yet to post his DSSB quote




*look above*

Sure thing kiddo, but then I'm pretty sure guides > RPG stat books




So what, the point is a birds slash is on nowhere near the level of force or power generated by a punch by Mace Windu, the differential is so much in fact that it doesn't even compare. Thus making your "Well it can defend against physical attacks." logic void.




Whats the point?

I'm not wasting my time you've been getting owned for the past 5 pages. Your argument has been destroyed time and time again by Lightsnake, Darth Sexy and Jollyjim simultaneously. And really when have ever won a debate on these forums. Your a perpetual loser.

I caught Lightsnake out on that lie ages ago, it says nothing of the sort.

And I've posted my quote plenty of times:

Furthermore, the venom they inject into their host-provided he survives-grants the victim enhanced strength, vitality, and accelerated healing, as well as an armored covering that is perfectly resistant to lightsabers.



They're actually pretty even, not that it matters, as your quote is a lie.



Oh my fricking days, how do you still not get this? It can defend against the cutting power of a lightsaber, which is beyond anything else in that regard. I posted the bird claw example to show how the effect isn't just solely against energy. If you still don't get this, you're dumb.



So basically you can't, right? My argument wasn't destroyed once, and I've been owning all of them for five pages, but nice tactics, because we both know that you can't ever make an argument for Mace being more powerful than Bane. You're a perpetual prick.

Give me a break, you egotistical moron. I pointed out more than one source where sabers have been shown cleaving through 'saber resistant' materials.

Kinetic energy is NOT a saber's energy....I'm surious, what'll Bane do if someone uses the Force to rip the orbalisks off or alters their molecular properties?

1.


2. To affect Bane's armour, they'll have to break through his force shield first, and Mace certainly won't be doing that.

BTW Sexy, don't think I've forgotten about:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
By who, you? Please, you've yet to own anybody on this forum and you sure as hell aren't about to start.


Gee, lets pick out the stupidity here..
1. Sidious was dominating the 3 B level Jedi never Mace. This was confirmed later by Lucas who said you'd have to be either Yoda or the Mace to defeat the Emperor. Your entire argument goes to shit here but I'll continue.
2. Lucas confirmed Mace overpowering Sidious. I'm sure Sidious underestimated Mace the way Yoda underestimated Sidious but no matter, Mace used his shatterpoint and vaapad abilities to turn the darkside against Sidious.


Much better? From whose perspective? Better as in him trying to run away from Yoda, or better as in him trying to gain the higher ground when he realized he had to fight Yoda? I didn't see him run away from Mace. Not to mention Yoda did NOT have Vaapad and shatterpoint, where Mace did.


Your right, his foresight was so good that he didn't see Vader turn on him and throw him down the shaft. His foresight was so good that he couldn't see Yoda surviving Order 66. I guess you forgot his surprised expression. His foresight was almost unmatched, but that doesn't make it flawless.


No, it's not, because Mace overpowered him with shatterpoint and Vaapad, and this was confirmed by Lucas in the commentary, so your argument dies again.


It means Mace was a better lightsaber duelist.




Like who? Coming from the one who's been owned in every single debate here, and has never won an argument, you're not exactly a good judge on who's intelligent and you lack any credibility to continue typing after this pwnage.




Again, says the one who's been pwned in virtually every argument. How do you deal with your denial exactly? Alcohol? Anti Depressants? canon is canon means just that. That doesn't mean "If I don't believe it, it's not canon".




No, he knows almost every move Kas'im knows because Kas'im trained him. This argument has been destroyed a million times with the Obiwan vs. Anakin example. Keep trying though.




You tell me, in your 6 times getting banned and few months on this forum, you haven't won a single argument.



I could continue but this pwnage should be enough for you. Go back to the drawing board Noobaris, or take your antidepressants so you can postpone living in reality.

You are about to get owned, just thought I'd give you a heads up.

Then post what it says in the saber section in the Ultimate Guide to Weapons and Tech, prove to me the quotes wrong. I provided the info its on you to prove it wrong.





No shit Sherlock, but what you still fail to get is that sure it may be able to stop some bird on Dxun, but does that mean it can stop Mace Windu? No. Since it doesn't specifically say in any sourcebook that it can stop all forms of physical attacks, blocking a bird does =/= Mace Windu.




Considering:

A. You've never won a debate against this forum let alone me, I'd probably win if I choose to get involved.

B. Your in denial, you haven't owned anything.

C. I have a life, and I can't be bothered with every single debate on this forum, moreover I find debating you EXTREMELY boring and uninteresting since you know...I always win.

Noobaris is constantly getting owned and in his own little world of denial, he's a master debater. I can't help but chuckle amusingly everytime he tries to tell people he's owning 4-5 at the same time.

1. By your logic, I can just make up a quote from any random source, and it would be your job to prove that the quote is wrong. See the error in your ways?

2. 'A blade of pure energy, the lightsaber can cut through most materials, except another lightsaber blade and a handful of special alloys such as cortosis' - TNEGtWaT, PG 43.

LiarSnake lies, get used to it.



Wow, you still don't get the point. The armour is strong enough to completely resist the cutting power of a lightsaber, and not due to the energy nature of the blade, but due to the nature of the orbalisks, they're pretty much indestructible. Nothing can break away another material like a lightsaber can, and seeing as:

1. The orbalisks are completely immune to it.

2. The orbalisks possess that property when up against any material, energy based or not,

unless you want to argue that Mace's fists can cut through something better than a lightsaber, your point is moot.



AC, your shit is actually becoming as whack as Darth Fricking Sexy. Seriously dog, keep it together, you're not that lame.




Oh, you were being serious?



And yet you're involved in pretty much every current debate there is right now...



Yet I'm probably the person you debate against most... Right, sure thing.



IIRC, you backed out of our last major argument, and reformed your stance. Yeah, I make it a policy not to reply against people who can't be arsed to do the same, so don't get it twisted, I was winning. I'm winning now, so unlucky big guy.

Oh and Sexy, it's coming. Prepare yourself.

Noobaris, I don't think you're capable of pwning anybody in any kind of debate. You're definitely good at making up shit and arguing against facts, and then declaring yourself the winner because it helps you sleep at night. I'll give you that.

I noticed how he didnt reply to LS's last post regarding someone using th force to rip them off bane...

First post on the page. It's the same reason why Mace can't simply use the force to push Bane's saber away, or turn off the on/off button; Mace has to break through Bane's force defences to affect his equipment.

why is it assumed that every jedi/sith in a fight automatically has a force field up like a fcuking Drodieka or something? If you focus on a certain object, in this case an orbalisk, then thats what you're affecting. If people just ran around with a shield up all the time, they'd never lose, anyone...there would be no point in fighting...

I backed out? Of what? I beat you in EVERY debate we've EVER had, unless you count being right about a sourcebook I don't even own a really victory(you probably do). If your referring to the Vader argument, I used your own ridicules logic against you thus voiding your argument.


This is hardly me making an argument, I merely picked out something I thought was wrong.

And I'm wrong cause I went by what anther user said, big whoop, as said these forums don't mean much to me so I can admit when I'm wrong, unlike you who's image of "retarded Bane fanboy" is too hard to give up.

As for Mace, weren't you the one arguing that:

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

And no genius I wouldn't argue that Mace's "fists" can "cut" I'd argue that they could "break" through with enough pounding.

Again, its not like it matters one bit since Mace is: easily the better duelist, has a style Bane's never seen before(and we know what that means: Banes gonna shit his pants and run) has a force ability that allows him to find any weakness, has a style that forces all Banes rage, and dark side energy back in his face. Can break durasteel with light punches. Really, Bane is completely outmatched, hell most Dark Side users are outmatched by Mace Windu.

What I find funny though is you put smilies up when I say "I have a life." and yet your here all day everyday, you can't be anymore then 16, you've been banned what like 5 times now and yet you love this forum so much that you keep coming back under anther stupid name. Really man, get a life.

Originally posted by allfg
1. By your logic, I can just make up a quote from any random source, and it would be your job to prove that the quote is wrong. See the error in your ways?

2. 'A blade of pure energy, the lightsaber can cut through most materials, except another lightsaber blade and a handful of special alloys such as cortosis' - TNEGtWaT, PG 43.

LiarSnake lies, get used to it.
1. Orbalisks are not 'an alloy'
2. We see Jedi cut through Cortosis.
3. Only liar is you



Energy resistance isn't strength. Prove the energy intensity. Thanks.

Just like Mandalorian armor.

Prove it

Fists don't cut

Okay, allfg, the bird argument sucks. For it to make any sense at all, the bird would need to be able to punch through durasteel, or shatter a crystal. Because an orbalisk wasn't broken by talons doesn't mean that it is completely invulnerable to physical damage.

Okay, I have a decent example: A cockroach can withstand radiation, but, can it take a punch, even if the radiation would typically be more harmful? No. The types of damage are completely independant of each other, and I doubt that an orbalisk is physically harder than a crystal (it could be, and it still wouldn't matter).

Also, Bane could still find a shatterpoint while Bane has the armor on. For example, if he hits Bane in the knee it could twist ligements, split his femur, and pop his hip out of socket, while he still has the orbalisks on.

For the last fricking time, the only reason I brought that up was to show that solid material has the same null effect on orbalisk armour that energy based material does. Now seeing as the orbalisks are immune to the cutting power of the lightsaber (and nothing can replicate that power, whether its cutting power, or kinetic power), and given that the orbalisks possess the same defence when up against solid material as it does when up against pure energy, it's ridiculous to assume that anything can break through them. The main premise behind the orbalisk armour was that it was indestructible, whether it be from the cutting power of a lightsaber, or the kinetic power produced by a Giant Bird's claws. To argue that Mace will punch through them is ridiculous, especially when considering that the CW cartoons are basically not canon, and the fact that nobody here can prove that punching through durasteel was a testament to Mace's shatterpoint ability or his physical strength. And to assume that he'd even get a hit on the superior Bane is plain asinine.

And in response to your last point, the orbalisks heal wounds near instantaneously.

If you are so sure of Orbelisk being so effective against a lightsaber attack I am sure you don't mind to post in what comic the armor withstood a attack from a lightsaber.

Further more all Mace needs to take advantage of shatterpoint is near uncounteble, if he can with but a tap destroy a diamond then a full hit from a fist that can punch through durasteel should be enough to take advantage of a minimal shatterpoint.

Originally posted by allfg
For the last fricking time, the only reason I brought that up was to show that solid material has the same null effect on orbalisk armour that energy based material does.
And what they're saying is, that one has nothing to do with the other, hence the cockroach example. If orbalisks are able to be killed (which came from the same RPG website source you used), then they are in fact able to be destroyed.
Originally posted by allfg
Now seeing as the orbalisks are immune to the cutting power of the lightsaber (and nothing can replicate that power, whether its cutting power, or kinetic power), and given that the orbalisks possess the same defence when up against solid material as it does when up against pure energy, it's ridiculous to assume that anything can break through them. Nowhere has it said that orbalisks are 100% immune to lightsaber attakcs. Everything I've ever read about them, it always says "virtually" or "almost". neither of which imply totally immune.
Originally posted by allfg
The main premise behind the orbalisk armour was that it was indestructible, whether it be from the cutting power of a lightsaber, or the kinetic power produced by a Giant Bird's claws. To argue that Mace will punch through them is ridiculous, especially when considering that the CW cartoons are basically not canon, and the fact that nobody here can prove that punching through durasteel was a testament to Mace's shatterpoint ability or his physical strength. And to assume that he'd even get a hit on the superior Bane is plain asinine. They're not completely indestructible. You would have to prove that a bird's claw has the same power and force has Mace's punch, thusly not ridiculous. CW cartoons are canon, if not more canon that a book, and it doesn't matter if its due to his shatterpoint or just his strength...the fact is, he punched through something that no one else could and would do the same to Bane. How do you figure that Bane is superior to Mace? What is he superior cause he "pulled a moon out of orbit"? As you have said many times before, that feat means dick when in a dueling situation.

Originally posted by allfg
And in response to your last point, the orbalisks heal wounds near instantaneously. OK, let me ask you, is Bane alive? No, he died right? Well for whatever the reason that killed him, the orbalisks didn't save him there. I don't know how he died and i really don't care, but that fact is, you seem to be implying that because you think that orbalisks are indestructible, that Bane is invincible, which is clearly not the case.

Okay, be quiet with the bird thing. It shows that orbalisks have a degree of resistance to physical attacks, just like any crustacean, not that it is harder than durasteel or mandalorian armor or anything of the sort (and certainly not diamonds). Got it?

Example: You're wearing a lightly padded electricity resistant suit, and you fall in a tank with an electric eel. The suit saves you from the electricity, and you climb out of the tank unharmed. Your friend then runs over to you, sees that you're okay, and pats you on the back. His patting you on the back didn't phase you much, due to the light padding and the weakness of the hit, so does that mean that the suit is just as efficient against physical damage as it is against electricity? No, not by a long shot. The degree of danger between the electricity (the lightsaber), and the patting (the birds claws) are not even comparable.

Now, there is also the fact that lightsabers have (for whatever reason) transfered kinetic energy, meaning, they hit you with physical force too, depending on how hard you swing, along with their damage from energy.

Now, take the eel example, and have it swim into you as it shocks you. The physical damage is there, it is just easily negatable thanks to the light padding (the physical damage a lightsaber does can be blocked by orbalisks because they are hard, and lightsabers aren't typically swung with enough strength to do more than just distribute the physical force over the body, and you just feet a sleight impact).

Now, this is what it's like against Mace Windu:
You go back to the aquarium or wherever it is that you and your friend get dressed up and play with eels. The same thing happens, and you fall in the tank. You see the eel, but, this is a new eel. It is 25 feet long and a very fast swimmer. It bolts at you, lightning fast, and unleashes its electricity. Thanks to your suit, you're fine, but, this one also rams into you... fast and hard with a lot of force (to account for Mace's Durasteel-wrecking, diamond-shattering strength) in the crotch (to replicate a shatterpoint on a smaller scale), and you're down for the count. The electricity did no damage, but, the physical force had you throwing up and then blacking out.

So while the padded suit (Bane's armor) will protect you against all sorts of electricity (lightsaber energy), and against pats on the shoulder (an average lightsaber hit), you will be royally dicked when a huge eel comes at your crotch with pelvis shattering speed.

There is also the fact that Orbalisks have never been tested against repeated lightsaber attacks, and other substances that have been described as lightsaber resistant ended up not staying that way, like cortosis and mandalorian iron (your suit might nobe so effective if the eel shoots out a few charges of electricity).

Need anything cleared up? If you do, I'll try again.

lol, that was great!

False analogy, logical fallacy. The very property of the orbalisks that defended against the lightsaber defended against the giant bird's claws as well. This is not the case in your analogy, the reason the suit remained unphased isn't because of the very same property that defended against the electricity, but because of the lack of force produced by the pat on the back.

Need anything cleared up? If you do, I'll try again (doesn't it suck when you attempt to patronise someone, and fail?).

Noobaris, doesn't it suck when you spend your entire life on this forum and can't win an argument?

Can you prove the bird hit with the same force that Mace would?

My goodness you live in your own little world, huh?

Prove it's the same property and not a specified energy resistance.
Because, in your RPG source there, stat wise, the orbalisks are much more efficient against energy than physical attacks (also their healing properties are determined by hours, not seconds).


Okay, same example with the eel, only this time you're friend calls you an idiot, and takes a swing at you for going in the pool, and hits your lightly armored electricity suit, and doesn't do much.

I still like my first example more, but, if you want to be stubborn...

That's not the point, the point is that the lightsaber is pretty much the most destructive force there is, and yet the orbalisks are completely immune to it, and the reason I brought up that incident was to show that the defence isn't solely against energy.

Originally posted by allfg
That's not the point, the point is that the lightsaber is pretty much the most destructive force there is, and yet the orbalisks are completely immune to it, and the reason I brought up that incident was to show that the defence isn't solely against energy.

Okay, you proved that they aren't energy resistant parasites with the physical hardness and density of applesauce. Good job. A bird could pick up a conch shell and not break it, I don't se how you get that they can resist anything physically from a bird not having an effect.

What happened with the dance?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What happened with the dance?

...What?

Originally posted by allfg
That's not the point, the point is that the lightsaber is pretty much the most destructive force there is, and yet the orbalisks are completely immune to it, and the reason I brought up that incident was to show that the defence isn't solely against energy.

I would LOVE to see a Jedi Master fighting back a Super Star Destroyer with a lightsaber.

or the death star...cause we all know that a lightsaber can destroy an entire planet...

In respect to volume, the lightsaber is the most destructive force in the entire SW Mythology, no other material or form of energy is as destructive, in respect to its size.

And to clear up the whole choreography issue, I'm just gonna post something from another Forum:

Lucas explained WHY he didn't want to do it with other actors or computer effects. He wanted to show the actors faces and expressions, and he wants to save most of the tension to the last duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Watch the documentary to ROTS.

When did he say that? That just doesn't make sense, because he could have still used CGI, and just have gotten the actors to do the facial expressions, and then molded them together. Direct link please, otherwise I don't buy it, due to it not making sense.