Tyson vs Ali

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Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?

PiruBlood
ali by far. because 1 hes SANE! and 2nd if you see his matches when he was younger he would go school of hard knox on tyson. i caught a few matches of alis on espn classics actually lastnight.

Soleran
Ali is a tactical boxer if of course Ali was given boxing tapes and such and time to adjust his style I would give it to Ali.

Tyson's stamina was always suspect and it beat im more often then not in fighting. Tyson was a bruiser to bad that's hard for the body in longer fights.

Unless Tysons gets a 90 second KO I don't see him winning.

Mr Parker
No contest.Ali wins.I used to ponder this myself who would win if those two met in the same eras and in the same age but that wondering gave way quickly when Tyson got knocked out by an unimpressive fighter named Buster Douglas who couldnt even defend his title and got knocked out by Ivander Holyfieid in his next bout.Ali would NEVER have allowed himself to get knocked out by Buster Douglas.I diasagree.I believe that the opponents that Tyson fought would have been pushovers for Ali.Ali fought much tougher competition than Tyson ever did.Tyson could never have lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds with people like Ernie shavers,George Forman,ect ect.Tyson showed that if you get to him early,he couldnt last late in the rounds and he would wear down.No contest.Ali wins easily.

Lord Coal
The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.

jaden101
well they both had 1 thing in common...they never knew when to quit...to both their detriments...

they were probably as poles apart as any 2 heavyewight fighters could be

they both have very good records but both had defeats in their prime...Ali to Frazier and Tyson to Douglas...

we should be looking to the future of the heavyweights...and the man who i think will dominate is Roman Greenberg

both had a gap in their records when they would have possibly been at their true peak...both in jail

Tyson was an animal and came out looking to destroy his opponent in the 1st round and Ali prefered to dance his opponents around the ring until they were breathing out their arses

you have to look at what Tyson achieved given his comparison to other heavyweights...he was way too short and his reach was way too short every single one of his opponents in his pro career had a height, weight and reach advantage...he still because WBC champion at 20 and undisputed world champion at 21

its all ifs and buts with this debate...IF tyson got Ali in the corner...IF the fight went the distance...

its pretty pointless...they were both awesome yet flawed fighters....

Lord Coal
Originally posted by jaden101
we should be looking to the future of the heavyweights...and the man who i think will dominate is Roman Greenberg

Well it certainly won't be Audley Harrison!

jaden101
Originally posted by Lord Coal
Well it certainly won't be Audley Harrison!

hahaha...true...Audleeeeyyyyy the glaaaassss jaaawwww.....Haaarrrissssooooonnnn

Thundar
Originally posted by Lord Coal
The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.

laughing

Lennox Lewis?

The same man who got KO'd in the first round by Oliver Mccall? Who couldn't even KO an emotionally scatterbrained Mccall who was high on crack during their rematch..

You're definitely a Brit.

Thundar
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Ali fought much tougher competition than Tyson ever did.Tyson could never have lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds with people like Ernie shavers,George Forman,ect ect.Tyson showed that if you get to him early,he couldnt last late in the rounds and he would wear down.No contest.Ali wins easily.


Tyson fought guys who were much much more conditioned than the opponents Ali fought, such as Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith, Trent Berbick, and even Michael Spinks. All of these guys were decent fighters, as they all had mostly undefeated records before fighting Tyson. Most of them had never even been knocked down before fighting Tyson. Mike made these guys look like amateurs. Really he did. And it wasn't just because of his punching power, it was because he could fight.

Tyson was a very patient fighter under Damato and even shortly after Damato's passing he demonstrated a helluva alot of stamina when fighting the big guns. His left hook and uppercut combinations were scary, as he moved so fast when throwing them that often times people couldn't see them coming. And when he did go the distance, he was generally looking pretty refreshed after the 10 round bouts.

When Don King completely took over the helms though, and he fired his old trainer, that's when Tyson started trying to knock everyone out in the first few rounds. This is why he started to tire so easily in later bouts. He would get himself punch drunk, since King had convinced him he was unbeatable, thus making Mike forget to box and causing him to try to brawl with everyone. In addition to him demonstrating a now lackluster fighting style, he also cut down his training regiment significantly..often times barely training but for a month or two before bouts.

During this time Mike also seemed to think he was truly made out of "Iron", and decided to have a more relaxed stance during the major bouts, not covering his face as often as he used to. There's only so many punches anyone can take before they start to wear down, and Mike was no exception. He would take the heavy punches head on when fighting opponents during King's management, often times not guarding himself like he used to do so well during the Damato days.

All of his losses can be attributed to this punch drunk - wild fighting style, which enabled many of his latter opponents to get him mentally frustrated by not being able to get the quick knockout. None of the guys who beat him really wanted to fight with him toe to toe anyway. They kept on hugging him every minute, grabbing his arms, stuff that was clearly demonstrative of their fear of getting hit by him(The Holyfield fights were prime examples of this, as Holyfield did nothing but hold Mike and Headbutt him most of the fight).

Had Tyson fought Ali or any other boxer that beat him during his prime and under Damato, they would have had little ability to overcome the powerful quick, and extremely intimidating Tyson. As announcer Larry Merchant once described him.."Mike is like a hurricane. You can predict it, but what can you really do to stop it?"

Thundar
Originally posted by Lord Coal
The only modern(ish) heavyweight that would stand a chance of beating Ali is Lennox Lewis.

Below is a clip of Mr. Lewis demonstrating his legendary granite chin, and unparalleled fighting skills..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlS0JnUBiU



EDIT: Can't embed videos..damn

Rogue Jedi
Ali would win. he would not be dumb enough to get caught by one of tysons killer uppercuts. he would wear tyson out and knock him out in about 9 rounds.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?

I give the odds to Ali.....because he's the smarter, more tactical/technical fighter. By no means, does this mean Tyson does not stand a chance. Simply put, when Tyson lands a bomb, you go down, there are no exceptions. But, I see Ali frustrating Mikey...taking him out of his game, and then getting that one shot in that will KO Mike.

Ali 8/10 times.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?

ps I will admit (and agree to an extent on what you say that) Tyson COULD have been the greatest boxer ever, if he had had the right people surrounding him. erm

Mr Parker
Originally posted by BobbyD
I give the odds to Ali.....because he's the smarter, more tactical/technical fighter. By no means, does this mean Tyson does not stand a chance. Simply put, when Tyson lands a bomb, you go down, there are no exceptions. But, I see Ali frustrating Mikey...taking him out of his game, and then getting that one shot in that will KO Mike.

Ali 8/10 times.

Yeah Ali would have been way too smart to get too close to Tyson to let him take him down.He had smarts where Tyson, he was just a brutal puncher.Ali would have frustrated him too much with his smarts like he did with Forman letting him punch him and take the punches wearing him down in late rounds.Plus as Douglas proved,if you can avoid Tyson in the early rounds,he couldn't last past the early rounds.Tyson didnt face near the competition as Ali did contrary to what the thread starter of this thread thinks.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ali would win. he would not be dumb enough to get caught by one of tysons killer uppercuts. he would wear tyson out and knock him out in about 9 rounds.

exactly.Ali like i said,Ali was way too smart a fighter to be dumb enough to get caught by one of Tysons upper cuts.Ali eventually would knock him out in later rounds everytime.

Sado22
Tyson had great punching power, precision, speed and his weaving peek-a-boo style meant great defense and ability to counter attack. on top of all that he threw a lot of punches (i mean when he was with Damato not the later Tyson) while still weaving and moving to avoid any retaliation.
ali had great speed but his defense always was weak. most people don't know this but ali actualy had bad defense. his hands were always down and he never covered up. he jsut moved around. even when Archie Moore adviced him to work on his defense, ali paid no heed and said he was better because he could move around. however, you can't move around for ever in a boxing bout and ali paid the price on many occassions. also ali had the problem of gloating a lot. tyson never gloated much (again during his time with damato) and remained focused.
in fact Ali lost many of his bouts due to gloating or underestimating his opponent. Leon spinks was one of them. aside from that Ken Norton and Joe Frazier were amongst the others.
while people always bring up Foreman-Ali bout to predict what would happen with Tyson-Ali, the fact of the matter is Tyson and Foreman were nothing alike.
Foreman was nowhere as fast as Tyson, he didn't throw a lot of punches, he wasn't great on defense, nor did he weave like Tyson. power is comparable but Tyson threw faster, more accurate punches that were of comparable power (if not more) and also threw a lot of them. if anything, the best way to compare this fight would actually be Frazier-Ali.
Frazier beat him the first time.
lost the second time.
lost the third time.....though "lost" cuz he was forced to stop due to cuts. interestingly Ali PASSED OUT while he was in the corner (during the time the refree was talking to Joe and asking him to stop). ali also later commented that if Frazier hadn't given up, he was ready to at that time.

not to mention that ali has been floored by many opponents, some who were not even that strong punchers. what makes people say that he won't be floored by Tyson? Ali never faced anyone with such a good combination of speed-power-defense and ability like Tyson. Frazier had great stamina, power but his defense wasn't even HALF as good as Tyson's and still Frazier pwned him. so what happens if he is up against someone with more speed, more power, better defense than Frazier.

the only thing goin for Ali is that he had the "heart". ali was great because he was durable. Ali can outlast Tyson but only because of Ali's durablity. Were Tyson to have ali's "heart" Tyson would probably even defeat my favorite boxer, Marciano...but that's another story.

if both fighters are to face each other in their prime, I'd say 50-50 chance for them both....or maybe 55-45 in Tyson's favor. but ask me who i will cheer for and it'll definitly be alismile

~The Invincbile Sado-sama

StyleTime
Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.

BobbyD
Originally posted by StyleTime
Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.

Indeed. But, there is one word-actually person who could have changed/maintained what would have been the great career of Tyson, and many here have mentioned it......Damato.

Had he lived longer, I don't even think this would have even been a debate.

Lord Evolution
Tyson would win in 3 rounds.

Looking at the way both of them fought and how much force Tyson had and how much he could put into one punch, I just couldn't see Ali lasting long.

We are talking primes here right?

Tyson > Ali

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Tyson would win in 3 rounds.

Looking at the way both of them fought and how much force Tyson had and how much he could put into one punch, I just couldn't see Ali lasting long.

We are talking primes here right?

Tyson > Ali

Interesting. Are we talking primes as in Tyson with Damato? If so, pfft....Ali goes down 9/10 times.

Thundar
Originally posted by BobbyD
Interesting. Are we talking primes as in Tyson with Damato? If so, pfft....Ali goes down 9/10 times.

Isn't that what I said all along...roll eyes (sarcastic)

Thundar
Originally posted by StyleTime
Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.

Exactly. He was an extremely skilled fighter under Rooney and Damato. When Damato died, he still had Rooney for a good little bit -- at least until he fired him. This was the defining moment when Tyson's legend began to fade(that and when he married Robin Givens..)

BobbyD
Originally posted by Thundar
Isn't that what I said all along...roll eyes (sarcastic)

My bad. But, I (and I think most) also tend to look at Mikey's overall body of work, and can't help but be jaded but what his career summed up to be-most notably due to his body of work in his later years, which sadly (justifiable or not) seems to sum up his career.

I will agree that Mikey had chapters to his career if that's how you want to look at it.

And in his first chapter with Damato by his side, Tyson was the greatest heavyweight EVER, period. NO ONE would have beaten him. Heck, he was the heavyweight champ at an age (18) when most are seniors in high school. Scary. Good point, and good thread Thundar. cool

Thundar
Originally posted by BobbyD
My bad. But, I (and I think most) also tend to look at Mikey's overall body of work, and can't help but be jaded but what his career summed up to be-most notably due to his body of work in his later years, which sadly (justifiable or not) seems to sum up his career.

I will agree that Mikey had chapters to his career if that's how you want to look at it.


I'll admit, Tyson wasn't in the best fighting condition after his release from prison. But the only legitimate loss I'll give to him in his prime was the loss to Buster Douglas, as Buster was fighting with a lot more heart and a lot more motivation to win than Tyson was that night. But you must admit that both Holyfield fights were a crock. Mike was way past his prime in the Holyfield bouts, and even at this level Holyfield still didn't want to fight the man. I'm suprised he didn't get disqualified for the excessive hugging and headbutting. Mike shouldn't have bit him, but Holyfield had it comming.


Originally posted by BobbyD
And in his first chapter with Damato by his side, Tyson was the greatest heavyweight EVER, period. NO ONE would have beaten him. Heck, he was the heavyweight champ at an age (18) when most are seniors in high school. Scary. Good point, and good thread Thundar. cool

Yes! I gotta convert. laughing

Truer words have never been spoken. You should watch some of the earlier bouts on youtube, the man was steamrolling through people.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Thundar
Yes! I gotta convert. laughing

Truer words have never been spoken. You should watch some of the earlier bouts on youtube, the man was steamrolling through people.

Silly wabbit, tricks are 4 kids. roll eyes (sarcastic)

You didn't get me to convert. I just need to see the point you were trying to address. wink

Mr Parker
Tyson loses everytime.Period,end of story.AGAIN Ali faught much much tougher competition.Many people agree on this as well.just the other day I was watching an old bout of Tysons where at that point he had been undefeated and was like 30 and o and EVEN the announcer was saying that Tyson hadnt really faced much tough competition on his way to earning those 30 victorys.No way could Tyson have stood toe to toe with the likes of Ernie Shavers and George Foreman and lasted in the late rounds like Ali did with them.Again Ali was way too smart a fighter that he would have ever been dumb enough to let Tyson get him with his uppercut.Tyson was never the same fighter again once he got knocked out by Douglass.Ali never let losing to another fighter faze his confidence.Douglass proved that if you can stay in the ring long enough with Tyson past the first few rounds that Tyson would lose,Tyson did not have the stamina to last in the late rounds and would lose when he got into the late rounds.Just the other day someone brought that point up that Tyson was never the same fighter once he lost to Douglass.Put Ali in the ring with Tyson early in his prime-a fighter that would have given him competition,Tyson would have had a defeat very early on in his career.

Darth Anakin16
i would probably say ali. but if tyson caught him enough times with his power punch, ali would go down like the rest.

tyson used to be my favourtie boxer until he went kind of insane.

ragesRemorse
tyson was a slugger.

ali was a fighter with superb boxing skills.

Look what ali did to foreman. Forman was a slugger with boxing skills. ali wore him down and beat him strategically from choosing the ropes, to where the match took place. Tyson isnt what you would call a boxer. He had extreme power. how many noteworthy opponents did tyson conquer?

teampac08
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?

You're kidding me right? Tyson has not fought anyone skilled in his career besides Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. Those two, by the way, beat him. It should be known, however, that Tyson was past his prime during those fights but that's not the point. Anyway, Tyson always had trouble with good, tall boxers. He's be outboxed the whole fight. To Muhammad Ali, it would be like fighting a quicker Frazier. Sure, Tyson has a chance but Muahammad Ali would more than likely either knock him out in the later rounds or outbox him to a victory. Tyson's chin, durability, and heart was always in question too.

ragesRemorse
Tysons a nut, like up there with prince nutty

BobbyD
I think people are missing the point of this thread. Yes, I'd give Ali the majority over Tyson in a boxing match, but unless I'm reading the thread incorrectly, the threadmaker's intention is to have Ali fighting Tyson with the Tyson in the early part of his years, with Cus D'Amato by his side, when Tyson was virtually indesctructible. Ali goes down to this version of Tyson. Boxing historians agree with this also, for whatever that's worth. However, in Tyson's other chapters of his career, Ali simply schools Mikey.

Cheers

The Boxer
I think Ali, but due to Tysons strenght, he will have some problems.

teampac08
Originally posted by BobbyD
I think people are missing the point of this thread. Yes, I'd give Ali the majority over Tyson in a boxing match, but unless I'm reading the thread incorrectly, the threadmaker's intention is to have Ali fighting Tyson with the Tyson in the early part of his years, with Cus D'Amato by his side, when Tyson was virtually indesctructible. Ali goes down to this version of Tyson. Boxing historians agree with this also, for whatever that's worth. However, in Tyson's other chapters of his career, Ali simply schools Mikey.

Cheers

Umm no. That version just has an even better chance, but Ali will probably take that fight. And which boxing historians are you talking about, there's probably some but the majority will favor Ali. First off Tyson is one of my favorite boxers off all time, but even I know Ali takes it. Tyson at that age was great, but he was never tested against a true and legit opponent. Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson is a great fight indeed but Ali will just outbox him. Like I already said, Tyson will have big trouble against a good, tall boxer who uses his range. Ali takes this, he's faster and his evasive abilities are just too great for Tyson to overcome. I do agree that Tyson has a puncher's chance, just like any other fighter who can land a good, clean punch on anyone else. Most likely wont happen though.

BobbyD
Originally posted by teampac08
Umm no. That version just has an even better chance, but Ali will probably take that fight. And which boxing historians are you talking about, there's probably some but the majority will favor Ali. First off Tyson is one of my favorite boxers off all time, but even I know Ali takes it. Tyson at that age was great, but he was never tested against a true and legit opponent. Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson is a great fight indeed but Ali will just outbox him. Like I already said, Tyson will have big trouble against a good, tall boxer who uses his range. Ali takes this, he's faster and his evasive abilities are just too great for Tyson to overcome. I do agree that Tyson has a puncher's chance, just like any other fighter who can land a good, clean punch on anyone else. Most likely wont happen though.

You make a valid point. But, people tend to think Mike was just a pure slugger. In fact, even though he had the sledgehammer to KO you, he was in fact a very good boxer in his early career with his peek a boo philosophy, and bobbing and weaving technique.

Listen, people keep saying that Tyson never fought anyone early in his career. That is probably true. But, how may other greats could end bouts like he did...even they were neverwillbes? The answer is none.

I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree, bud. wink

ragesRemorse
tyson wouldnt know what to do against the great one. He'd piss his pants

BobbyD
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
tyson wouldnt know what to do against the great one. He'd piss his pants

Yeah, a kid at 12 twelve years of age bouncing grown men out of bars in the Bronx. The guy is an animal-is not human anyway. roll eyes (sarcastic)

teampac08
Originally posted by BobbyD
You make a valid point. But, people tend to think Mike was just a pure slugger. In fact, even though he had the sledgehammer to KO you, he was in fact a very good boxer in his early career with his peek a boo philosophy, and bobbing and weaving technique.

Listen, people keep saying that Tyson never fought anyone early in his career. That is probably true. But, how may other greats could end bouts like he did...even they were neverwillbes? The answer is none.

I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree, bud. wink

I agree. I know that he has great underrated defense. His bobbing and weaving was very hard to overcome. Thing is, it would still be incredibly hard to hit a prime Ali as well. Ali had great defense. Tyson was quick with his punches too, but Ali had even quicker hands in his prime. I wouldnt be surprised if Tyson knocked down Ali. But I would expect Ali to come back up if this were to happen and still outbox him. Tyson's endurance was never really tested in his prime either. I dont expect him to last the distance with Ali, and if he did it would still be a decision in Ali's favor. Trust me, Tyson would have a harder time tagging Ali then Ali hitting Tyson. Ali's proven himself against countless hard hitters. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Cooper, Shavers, etc. Has Tyson proven himself against a boxer who uses range and quick punches like Ali?

BobbyD
Originally posted by teampac08
Has Tyson proven himself against a boxer who uses range and quick punches like Ali?

No....he's lost to such boxers (Lewis & Holyfield). In Tyson's defense, this was laaaater in his career when he was no longer a boxer, and just a novelty to make money.

We'll really never know I guess. erm

teampac08
Originally posted by BobbyD
No....he's lost to such boxers (Lewis & Holyfield). In Tyson's defense, this was laaaater in his career when he was no longer a boxer, and just a novelty to make money.

We'll really never know I guess. erm

Dont get me wrong, he's a top ten heavyweight of all time. I even think think in his prime, he beats any boxer except Ali and Foreman. He loses to Ali because he's too smart and Foreman because he destroys everyone that runs straight up at him. Foreman's even stronger than Tyson. Styles make fights, and Foreman loved fighters that wanted to go toe to toe with him.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by teampac08
Umm no. That version just has an even better chance, but Ali will probably take that fight. And which boxing historians are you talking about, there's probably some but the majority will favor Ali. First off Tyson is one of my favorite boxers off all time, but even I know Ali takes it. Tyson at that age was great, but he was never tested against a true and legit opponent. Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson is a great fight indeed but Ali will just outbox him. Like I already said, Tyson will have big trouble against a good, tall boxer who uses his range. Ali takes this, he's faster and his evasive abilities are just too great for Tyson to overcome. I do agree that Tyson has a puncher's chance, just like any other fighter who can land a good, clean punch on anyone else. Most likely wont happen though.

I know he's got to be kidding.Yeah in that version Tyson has a better chance yes but Ali still will win.and your right,which historians are being referred to here because the majority have said Ali wins.Like i said,I wondered about that a long time myself but then came to my senses eventually because as you and others have said,Ali was way too smart a fighter to allow Tyson to get him with his uppercut punch.Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson would be a good battle alright but like you said,Ali has just way too good evasive skills plus much better smarts than Tyson to overcome.Thats what I said earlier as well also that Tyson was never truely tested against a true and legit opponet.Like i said earlier,I was watching one of Tysons early fights in his career when he got off to like a 30 and 0 start and even the announcer said that Tyson hadnt really faught much tough competition.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by teampac08
I agree. I know that he has great underrated defense. His bobbing and weaving was very hard to overcome. Thing is, it would still be incredibly hard to hit a prime Ali as well. Ali had great defense. Tyson was quick with his punches too, but Ali had even quicker hands in his prime. I wouldnt be surprised if Tyson knocked down Ali. But I would expect Ali to come back up if this were to happen and still outbox him. Tyson's endurance was never really tested in his prime either. I dont expect him to last the distance with Ali, and if he did it would still be a decision in Ali's favor. Trust me, Tyson would have a harder time tagging Ali then Ali hitting Tyson. Ali's proven himself against countless hard hitters. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Cooper, Shavers, etc. Has Tyson proven himself against a boxer who uses range and quick punches like Ali?

Yeah if Tyson had faught tough competition like those guys early in his career that were hard hitters like Liston, Forman, Frazier, Cooper, Shavers ext.No way in hell would he have ever gone off to a 30 and 0 start like he did.Tyson never faced top notch quality competition like that where Ali proved himself time and time again against the toughest hitters such as them.Like you said,Ali had quicker hands in his prime and like you said,Tysons endurance was never tested early on in his career and there were many question marks about him even early on if he could last late in the rounds because of that.When boxers took him late into the rounds like Holyfield and Douglass did late in his career,he got knocked out.Also like you said, even early on,Tyson had a soft chin.He didnt have good endurance like Ali did,he never faught much tough competition early on,he had a weak chin. Yeah Tyson might have been able to knock him down, but like you said, Ali had way too much heart in him,that he wouldnt allow that to keep him down,he would get back up from it.Where Tysons heart was questioned as well that if Ali knocked Tyson down,he has no heart so he stays down and its a knockout.Ali wins everytime.

Thundar
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Yeah if Tyson had faught tough competition like those guys early in his career that were hard hitters like Liston, Forman, Frazier, Cooper, Shavers ext.No way in hell would he have ever gone off to a 30 and 0 start like he did.Tyson never faced top notch quality competition like that where Ali proved himself time and time again against the toughest hitters such as them.Like you said,Ali had quicker hands in his prime and like you said,Tysons endurance was never tested early on in his career and there were many question marks about him even early on if he could last late in the rounds because of that.When boxers took him late into the rounds like Holyfield and Douglass did late in his career,he got knocked out.Also like you said, even early on,Tyson had a soft chin.He didnt have good endurance like Ali did,he never faught much tough competition early on,he had a weak chin. Yeah Tyson might have been able to knock him down, but like you said, Ali had way too much heart in him,that he wouldnt allow that to keep him down,he would get back up from it.Where Tysons heart was questioned as well that if Ali knocked Tyson down,he has no heart so he stays down and its a knockout.Ali wins everytime.

Tyson fought plenty of quality fighters, and beat them fairly soundly. Mitch Green, Trevor Berbick, Terrel Biggs to name a few. Berbick actually defeated Ali(albeit a waaay past his prime Ali) and was known as a very skilled fighter.

In fact, most of the above listed were undoubtly equal if not superior to Ali in terms of stamina, conditioning, durability and power. They were quick heavy weights too. Mitch green and Biggs actually had an Ali type fighting style. In fact, many boxers during this age do.

The only way I can see Ali winning this match, at least a first one between these two - would be if all the same rules that gave him so many advantages were still in play(i.e. excessive holding, talking schmack during fights, using the ropes for stability, etc)

Ali would not survive a prime Tyson without these advantages, and would fall quickly to his relentless onslaught in any first time match up with Tyson.

Thundar
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
tyson wouldnt know what to do against the great one. He'd piss his pants

I actually think Ali's bravado would work against a humbled Mike in this fight. Watch some of Mike's early fights, when he was humble - he was a much more focused in the ring, and a much more technical boxer. He wouldn't throw wild punches right away, and always kept his guard up.

teampac08
Originally posted by Thundar
Tyson fought plenty of quality fighters, and beat them fairly soundly. Mitch Green, Trevor Berbick, Terrel Biggs to name a few. Berbick actually defeated Ali(albeit a waaay past his prime Ali) and was known as a very skilled fighter.

In fact, most of the above listed were undoubtly equal if not superior to Ali in terms of stamina, conditioning, durability and power. They were quick heavy weights too. Mitch green and Biggs actually had an Ali type fighting style. In fact, many boxers during this age do.

The only way I can see Ali winning this match, at least a first one between these two - would be if all the same rules that gave him so many advantages were still in play(i.e. excessive holding, talking schmack during fights, using the ropes for stability, etc)

Ali would not survive a prime Tyson without these advantages, and would fall quickly to his relentless onslaught in any first time match up with Tyson.

Haha, you're comparing these fighters to Ali? That's just ridiculous. Point is Tyson never fought anyone as good as Ali but Ali's fought people much better than Tyson. A prime Ali's range and quickness will frustrate Tyson. His jab was very reliable and he had good combinations. Not that he'd be dumb enough to trade punches with Tyson, but if he had the chance to hit an exhausted Tyson he would.

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
Haha, you're comparing these fighters to Ali? That's just ridiculous. Point is Tyson never fought anyone as good as Ali but Ali's fought people much better than Tyson. A prime Ali's range and quickness will frustrate Tyson. His jab was very reliable and he had good combinations. Not that he'd be dumb enough to trade punches with Tyson, but if he had the chance to hit an exhausted Tyson he would.

not all fights, particularly in the heavyweight division, rest on ability...a single well connected punch is enough to lay flat anyone. and tyson could throw lightning quick and monsterously powerful punches seemingly from nowhere and took out a lot of fast footed boxers that way

you cant say his opponents were shit either...

spinks....W31...L1 (against tyson)
Ruddock...37 wins out of 43 fights
frank bruno...40 wins out of 45 fights
tucker...58 out of 66

they're hardly journeymen

teampac08
Originally posted by jaden101
not all fights, particularly in the heavyweight division, rest on ability...a single well connected punch is enough to lay flat anyone. and tyson could throw lightning quick and monsterously powerful punches seemingly from nowhere and took out a lot of fast footed boxers that way

you cant say his opponents were shit either...

spinks....W31...L1 (against tyson)
Ruddock...37 wins out of 43 fights
frank bruno...40 wins out of 45 fights
tucker...58 out of 66

they're hardly journeymen

Again, why are you comparing these guys to Ali or his competition? They're not in the same league in terms of what they can do in the ring. Take a look at Ali's competition, and then the people you mentioned. It's seriously a joke if you think Tyson took on great fighters. Man, I love Tyson and all but he's overrated. Of course it takes one punch to put anyone down, but Ali's footwork and jab is a very good defense. Not to mention he's capable of getting off the ground when he gets knocked down. Anyone has a puncher's chance, but more often than not the fight is goin to the more talented and smarter boxer. Frank Bruno? Wow, that's just hilarious.

BobbyD
Originally posted by teampac08
Again, why are you comparing these guys to Ali or his competition? They're not in the same league in terms of what they can do in the ring. Take a look at Ali's competition, and then the people you mentioned. It's seriously a joke if you think Tyson took on great fighters. Man, I love Tyson and all but he's overrated. Of course it takes one punch to put anyone down, but Ali's footwork and jab is a very good defense. Not to mention he's capable of getting off the ground when he gets knocked down. Anyone has a puncher's chance, but more often than not the fight is goin to the more talented and smarter boxer. Frank Bruno? Wow, that's just hilarious.

I think most people will agree that Ali would take the majority. I do as well. But, the threadmaker's intention is pitting Ali against Mikey when Mike was in his prime.

I know my opinion doesn't count for much here. But, it is my personal feeling that Tyson in his prime (w/ Damato by his side) was the greatest boxer ever. That being said, when you take into account Tyson's whole career it wasn't all that impressive.

I've probably beaten a dead horse on this thread, but if so it was because I was always on the edge of my seat when Tyson fought in his earlier years. He created so much excitment....was like watching Jordan in his earlier years...never what he was capable of or going to do.

Tyson was going to KO his opponent. You knew it; I knew it; the crowd knew it; Mike knew it; heck, his opponent knew it. erm

It was just a matter of when. You could not say this about any boxer who stepped into the squared circle everytime.

I firmly believe that Tyson in his prime with his peek a boo style and Damato by side, would have taken the majority against Ali. Tyson would not have been frustrated by Ali and his taunting, nor his tactics, because he had Damato in his corner. Does anyone remember seeing a clip on 20/20 with Barbara Walters by his side....the Robin Givens one?

Might be before most of your time here. But, he was shown in his training w/ Damato throwing 4 blistering jabs in less than a second. Now, there are probably a lot of boxers that could actually do this, but what power would they behind it?

You can Ali, and I would say: "How could I argue against the greatest? But, there's no denying that for speculative purposes Mike had the skill sets/weapons, was in the right frame of mind, and ahd the right people in his corner to take Ali down-better and faster than anyone Ali has faced."

teampac08
Now I know Tyson is strong guys but Ali's taken harder shots. He was getting pounded by Foreman but he was able to take the win. Granted, yes Tyson's quicker than Foreman but Ali would still be able to take the punches. He also fought Shavers, who also hit harder than Tyson. Tyson, even in his prime would have a hard time hitting a prime Ali. And even if he did get some good shots Ali would be able to take the punishment. Ali was a very smart boxer, his footwork and jab was very good. When speed or range didnt work, he still relied on other smart tactics like clinching when the opponent got too close and of course the rope-a-dope. A lot of those knockouts Tyson had were due to poor competition and the fact that many of those fighters had lost confidence in themselves. They feared getting hit by Tyson. I doubt Ali, one of the cockiest fighters around, would show fear towards Tyson.

headrek1
Tyson would lose hands down. Tyson was a short, power-punching type boxer. But with all that power I guess he never felt the need to work on defense. Therefore if a fight ever got pass the 5th or 6th round he was suspect to being took down. That's why he lost to Buster Douglass back in the day. Ali would have a longer reach, and he's faster, so he could just frustrate Tyson with his jab all day. Ali could definitely last past the 5th round, rope-a-dope anyone? Still I'm not sure pitting anyone from the 60's against someone from the 90's is fair. Tyson grew up with hormones (if he didn't take them as steroids, they were in his food) that probably contributed to his power. Ali grew up in a time where all the advances in food proccessing and steroids that exist now weren't in effect, so he has a built in disadvantage.

B-Ball Star#3
ya i agree wit that last post

meep-meep
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.

Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.

People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.

All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).

A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.

Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.

Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.

What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?

Man you got to be kidding me. Have you not seen the thrilla in manilla, ali vs frazier? Foreman was fighting well into his late 40's and still knocking fools out on the pro circuit. frazier and foreman in their priome are champs today and would give tyson tyson in his prime a top notch competition.

BobbyD brings up some good points, though, I admit. In his prime with his original trainer in his corner Tyson was really good, even one of the best, but against Ali or even Frazier Mike tyson would have to deliver his power for more than 5 rounds.

jaden101
what's funny exactly...you dont become WBC champion by being shit at boxing...granted he didn't have the mentality to be great but if he did..coupled with being 6'3 and having an 82' reach...he could have been great

Ali fought...looking at his record...3 great fighters...Frazier, Foreman and Norton...and had defeats against 2 of those as well when he was supposed to have been in his prime.

its obvious most people on here who blindly say Ali would win are doing so because he's been hyped up over decades as being a better fighter than he actually was...mostly due to his charisma and controversy that surrounded him as a fighter...



athletes in all sports are better now than they ever were and illegal drug taking was more rife then because there was no way to detect it...

proof?

best champions of their respective ages

Marciano...
http://www.nndb.com/people/358/000023289/rocky_sm.jpg

Ali

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Muhammed_Ali_Sonny_Liston_L.jpg

Tyson

http://brevheart.tripod.com/tysonSwing.jpg

if you're going by records alone then Marciano should beat the shit out of both of them...but clearly that wouldn't happen

teampac08
jaden101, I'm hyping Ali? No, you're hyping Tyson. Ali is a proven champion against better competition. Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Liston, and even Cooper were all better competition than the bums Tyson fought. By the way, did I ever bring up Marciano into this? I know Tyson and Ali would beat him. He's too small, Marciano has a light heavyweight's body. Seriously who has Tyson fought that could be put up in the same caliber as Ali's opponents? When you think Tyson would beat Ali, based on his performance against lower competition, then that's overhyping a boxer. Ali has formidable size against Tyson as well. He's 6'3 and a reach of 80'. Ali's footwork and overall speed in his prime was a lot better than Tyson's. He's a smart boxer, and he would give Tyson fits in the ring. Yeah Tyson would win if Ali just slugged it out with him, but Ali isn't dumb. He'd put range between himself and Tyson using his fast jab and quick feet.

Quiero Mota
Regardless of who won, it would be a great one to see.

I think Ali would get either a KO or a TKO within 7 rounds.

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
jaden101, I'm hyping Ali? No, you're hyping Tyson. Ali is a proven champion against better competition. Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Liston, and even Cooper were all better competition than the bums Tyson fought. By the way, did I ever bring up Marciano into this? I know Tyson and Ali would beat him. He's too small, Marciano has a light heavyweight's body. Seriously who has Tyson fought that could be put up in the same caliber as Ali's opponents? When you think Tyson would beat Ali, based on his performance against lower competition, then that's overhyping a boxer. Ali has formidable size against Tyson as well. He's 6'3 and a reach of 80'. Ali's footwork and overall speed in his prime was a lot better than Tyson's. He's a smart boxer, and he would give Tyson fits in the ring. Yeah Tyson would win if Ali just slugged it out with him, but Ali isn't dumb. He'd put range between himself and Tyson using his fast jab and quick feet.


shavers?...he lost 14 fights in his career...thats not the mark of a great boxer....and cooper was a journeyman without doubt who also lost 14 fights...most of which came against nobodys.

i brought marciano into it to show headreks point is invalid.

you say Ali has formidable size...every fighter that Tyson fought had a size, weight and reach advantage...he was only 5'10"...makes it even more remarkable that he destroyed so many people in the ring

Tyson fought against quick, ranged fighters...what happened?...he leathered them something fierce.

i'll say one thing...it would be a great fight...and i'm not even claiming tyson would win...just addressing the fact that most people in here say Ali would win just because he's Ali and he's supposed to be the greatest fighter ever....well if thats the case he would never have been defeated...he was...

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by jaden101
you say Ali has formidable size...every fighter that Tyson fought had a size, weight and reach advantage...he was only 5'10"...makes it even more remarkable that he destroyed so many people in the ring


thumb up

Even if Ali won, Tyson would be no push-over.

Ali has the speed & height adavntage, as well as better endurance. But Tyson is just one loco vato you dont wanna underestimate.

teampac08
Originally posted by jaden101
shavers?...he lost 14 fights in his career...thats not the mark of a great boxer....and cooper was a journeyman without doubt who also lost 14 fights...most of which came against nobodys.

i brought marciano into it to show headreks point is invalid.

you say Ali has formidable size...every fighter that Tyson fought had a size, weight and reach advantage...he was only 5'10"...makes it even more remarkable that he destroyed so many people in the ring

Tyson fought against quick, ranged fighters...what happened?...he leathered them something fierce.

i'll say one thing...it would be a great fight...and i'm not even claiming tyson would win...just addressing the fact that most people in here say Ali would win just because he's Ali and he's supposed to be the greatest fighter ever....well if thats the case he would never have been defeated...he was...

I feel that it would be a great fight as well. I put up Shavers and Cooper in there for examples to prove that Ali could take a hit. Cooper and Shavers would lose to Tyson as well. Yes Tyson fought some quick, ranged fighters but were any of them as talented or as smart as Ali? Ali in his prime probably had the quickest hands and best footwork out of any heavyweight ever. Dont get me wrong Tyson would land some good punches here and there but Ali's jab would land a lot more often. He'll land his combinations a lot more often than Tyson will too. Only thing that Tyson has as an advantage is power. Ali had better speed, a better chin, was a whole lot smarter, better endurance, and a better grasp of the fundamentals. Styles make fights and Ali would be a nightmare matchup for Tyson. A long range, quick fighter who had decent power and superb defense.

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
I feel that it would be a great fight as well. I put up Shavers and Cooper in there for examples to prove that Ali could take a hit. Cooper and Shavers would lose to Tyson as well. Yes Tyson fought some quick, ranged fighters but were any of them as talented or as smart as Ali? Ali in his prime probably had the quickest hands and best footwork out of any heavyweight ever. Dont get me wrong Tyson would land some good punches here and there but Ali's jab would land a lot more often. He'll land his combinations a lot more often than Tyson will too. Only thing that Tyson has as an advantage is power. Ali had better speed, a better chin, was a whole lot smarter, better endurance, and a better grasp of the fundamentals. Styles make fights and Ali would be a nightmare matchup for Tyson. A long range, quick fighter who had decent power and superb defense.

indeed...but looks like the days of fighters of both their calibre are gone...instead we get Valuev the 7ft monster who got beat in his last fight

klitchko is even coming back despite the fact that he was rubbish...and there's even talk of Lewis coming out of retirement...

teampac08
Originally posted by jaden101
indeed...but looks like the days of fighters of both their calibre are gone...instead we get Valuev the 7ft monster who got beat in his last fight

klitchko is even coming back despite the fact that he was rubbish...and there's even talk of Lewis coming out of retirement...

Yeah the heavyweight division is garbage. The better fighters are found at the lower divisions. To me the best one has got to be the junior lightweight division. You got Pacquiao, Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Soto, Guzman, and Valero. Now that's a lot of talent in one division.

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
Yeah the heavyweight division is garbage. The better fighters are found at the lower divisions. To me the best one has got to be the junior lightweight division. You got Pacquiao, Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Soto, Guzman, and Valero. Now that's a lot of talent in one division.

yeah true...alot of talent around between light welterweight and light middleweight as well

De la Hoya
Hatton
Tszyu
Mayweather Jnr
Cotto
Spinks

teampac08
Originally posted by jaden101
yeah true...alot of talent around between light welterweight and light middleweight as well

De la Hoya
Hatton
Tszyu
Mayweather Jnr
Cotto
Spinks

By the way, who are you goin for in the Mayweather vs Oscar fight?

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
By the way, who are you goin for in the Mayweather vs Oscar fight?

given thier records i'd have to go with mayweather...De la Hoya was once great but he's been faultering these last couple of years...beat from hopkins...beat from mosely...twice if you go back to 2000....

recently De la hoya lost to baldomir...mayweather beat baldomir....

i think the 4 years age gap will tell...

Bigga Nigga420
ya...but you all should look at the Jones Jr vs Ali Thread that i made!smile

teampac08
Originally posted by jaden101
given thier records i'd have to go with mayweather...De la Hoya was once great but he's been faultering these last couple of years...beat from hopkins...beat from mosely...twice if you go back to 2000....

recently De la hoya lost to baldomir...mayweather beat baldomir....

i think the 4 years age gap will tell...

De la hoya never fought Baldomir, and while I lean towards the thought of Mayweather winning it'll be closer than what most people think. De la hoya has size and power, not to mention he's doing everything he can to train for this fight. De la hoya took in one of the best trainers today in Freddie Roach, and has Mosley as his sparring partner. If there's anyone who can mimic Mayweather's speed in the ring it's Mosley. What De la hoya has to do is cut the ring and constantly pressure Mayweather. If he does this throughout the fight, he might land a big punch or combination that will put Mayweather's chin to the test.

jaden101
Originally posted by teampac08
De la hoya never fought Baldomir, and while I lean towards the thought of Mayweather winning it'll be closer than what most people think. De la hoya has size and power, not to mention he's doing everything he can to train for this fight. De la hoya took in one of the best trainers today in Freddie Roach, and has Mosley as his sparring partner. If there's anyone who can mimic Mayweather's speed in the ring it's Mosley. What De la hoya has to do is cut the ring and constantly pressure Mayweather. If he does this throughout the fight, he might land a big punch or combination that will put Mayweather's chin to the test.

bugger...i must've read boxrec wrong...

one thing...it'll be an ace fight...i've only caught 1 or 2 fight from each in the past cause UK tv in the last few years has only focused on a handful of UK fighters...calzaghe, A harrison, S harrison, hatton and kahn.

so few fights with no UK fighters get shown except on some obscure cable tv channel at 4 in the morning.

will be a great fight...De la Hoya...training hard as you say, may have a chance to redeem himself...hopefully it will be a great fight but the problem when 2 great fighter face off...they tend to be quite guarded...

FrothByte
I think a lot of people have forgotten what Tyson looked in his prime. People equate Tyson to what he was as of late: A one-punch gambler with very low stamina.

But Tyson in his prime was a completely different animal. He used lightning fast combos (not just single power punches) had incredible defense (one of the best in heavyweight boxing) and was able to continue through later rounds and still score knockout victories.

Ali could probably get a win by outsmarting Tyson, but Ali would be really pushed to his limits to eke out a win. Prime tyson wins 7/10 over prime Ali.

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