God says hes merciful and loving

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Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

Your welcome. happy

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.
Then you better believe in God. stick out tongue

lord xyz
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Your welcome. happy You're.

And what about those fossils and crap to test our faith?

God: Did you believe in Dinosaurs?
You: Yes.
God: How dare you? Straight to hell now, how can you be so blind?

Black Dalek
Originally posted by lord xyz
You're.

And what about those fossils and crap to test our faith?

God: Did you believe in Dinosaurs?
You: Yes.
God: How dare you? Straight to hell now, how can you be so blind?

Lmao.

Alliance
God. Lamo.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lord xyz

God: Did you believe in Dinosaurs?
You: Yes.
God: How dare you? Straight to hell now, how can you be so blind?

I'm God. I can screw with whoever I want, whenever I, however I want. happy

BananaKing
He's merciful enough to not kill you himself right here right now for not believing in him, he gives you a lifetime to change your mind.

Fishy
Originally posted by BananaKing
He's merciful enough to not kill you himself right here right now for not believing in him, he gives you a lifetime to change your mind.

Yet apparently not merciful enough to make you stay alive until you realize that he or she exists. Nor merciful enough to forgive you from not seeing the truth, or for that matter not merciful enough to actually just come up and tell you during your life time....

If hell exists and people that don't believe in God go there then God isn't merciful at all...

Regret
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God. I see this a lot. I am unsure if the Bible actually supports the concept, or if only an interpretation of the text does. My parents used to say that if I did not go to school life would suck when I got older. They wouldn't make my life suck, but it would. I figure it's a similar case. We could avoid personal grief if we behaved properly and placed ourselves into a position where our suffering did not occur.

BananaKing
Originally posted by Fishy
Yet apparently not merciful enough to make you stay alive until you realize that he or she exists. Nor merciful enough to forgive you from not seeing the truth, or for that matter not merciful enough to actually just come up and tell you during your life time....

If hell exists and people that don't believe in God go there then God isn't merciful at all...

90 years is a damn long time to be ignorant about something that's all around you. I've always found it funny that people don't believe in god when there are SO many people that do, strange that we know alot about the world but people still believe in god!

Personally, believing in something as random as evolution(a very new idea) for the whole of someones life over believing in god (something that people have believed in for about 50x longer than evolution, which people still believe at the same time as evolution) is kinda, well, awkward and weird.

Let's jus remember he could do even worse and jus get rid of your entire existance! big grin

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

God says hes merciful and loving. I don't think god ever said that.

marcu
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
God says hes merciful and loving. I don't think god ever said that.

You forgot to capitalize that G Shaky. roll eyes (sarcastic) stick out tongue

Alliance
no, actually it doesn't matter. I don't see Christiancs capitalizing god when used to reference other religions.

It should not be a proper noun, just like we dont capitalize Truth or Integrity any more.

Tangible God
Originally posted by BananaKing
90 years is a damn long time to be ignorant about something that's all around you. I've always found it funny that people don't believe in god when there are SO many people that do, strange that we know alot about the world but people still believe in god!

Personally, believing in something as random as evolution(a very new idea) for the whole of someones life over believing in god (something that people have believed in for about 50x longer than evolution, which people still believe at the same time as evolution) is kinda, well, awkward and weird.

Let's jus remember he could do even worse and jus get rid of your entire existance! big grin My whole life I've believed that smoking is bad for you (a new idea really), but people used to believe it was fine, even good for you for like a lot longer than the last 50 years. Ideas and people change, and since I've seen little to support God's existence, and much to prove evolution's (in comparison to one another), I'm gonna stick with the thing that provides more proof.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by marcu
You forgot to capitalize that G Shaky. roll eyes (sarcastic) stick out tongue

No I did not. wink I never capitalize when I am talking about man made gods.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lord xyz
You're.

And what about those fossils and crap to test our faith?

God: Did you believe in Dinosaurs?
You: Yes.
God: How dare you? Straight to hell now, how can you be so blind?

Stop stealing from Bill Hicks.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by BananaKing
90 years is a damn long time to be ignorant about something that's all around you. I've always found it funny that people don't believe in god when there are SO many people that do, strange that we know alot about the world but people still believe in god!

Once upon a time a lot of people believed in slavery... strange, I don't see it merely as much any more. People can believe in God/gods if they want, but it is in no way strange that plenty don't.

And it is kind of sad, that conformist way of looking at things "what, you don't believe in God? But so many people do. Can they all be wrong?"

Any study of history will reveal a massive number of faiths that have lived, died or been reinterpreted. We can be fairly sure at some point lots of people believed in them. Do you believe in them? What about Islam? Hindu? Buddhism? Do you believe in all of them because so many others do? By that logic you would have to believe in all faiths with enough people in them. I mean - they can't all be wrong, can they?



Actually your view is weird. I wish I had a cane so I could rap you across the knuckles with it.



And there you go - exactly why I question the claims "God is loving" - that can only be said because he has a clause protecting him. "No matter what terrible things God does they are Good, because God can do no wrong because he is God."

Any God/gods who have Holy books detailing there advocacy for mass slaughter for the reason "they are evil" is going to make me question the claim "I can do no wrong."

FeceMan
Originally posted by lord xyz
You're.

And what about those fossils and crap to test our faith?

God: Did you believe in Dinosaurs?
You: Yes.
God: How dare you? Straight to hell now, how can you be so blind?
Are you retarded?

Seraphim XIII
There are always conditions and extents to mercy and love. If god truly exists, would you expect him to be forever merciful to a killer or a thief?

Lord Urizen
You guys should be more appreciative of the Lord God


He tortured his only son so that he wouldn't have to torture the rest of you. smile

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys should be more appreciative of the Lord God


He tortured his only son so that he wouldn't have to torture the rest of you. smile

Meh, I didn't ask him to, he has no right to try and guilt trip humanity into faith.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Meh, I didn't ask him to, he has no right to try and guilt trip humanity into faith.



Yes he has every right...he created you. HE is perfection and he is better than you are.


You are nothing, you are worth nothing if you have no Faith. You should consider yourself lucky that he even acknowledges your worthless existance.


God can torture anyone he wants, because he is God. That's his job. To be better than us and superior, and to maintain his superiority by torturing and killing those who disobey and do not beleive, to remind us how worthless we all are. smile


Amen


God loves ya

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes he has every right...he created you. HE is perfection and he is better than you are.


You are nothing, you are worth nothing if you have no Faith. You should consider yourself lucky that he even acknowledges your worthless existance.


God can torture anyone he wants, because he is God. That's his job. To be better than us and superior, and to maintain his superiority by torturing and killing those who disobey and do not beleive, to remind us how worthless we all are. smile


Amen


God loves ya

It is funny, even more so when there are actually people out there who believe that kind of thing.

God is a tyrant.

Blaxican
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

In my Christian belief we don't believe in hell, failure wink

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Blaxican
In my Christian belief we don't believe in hell, failure wink


Then you are going to Hell wink

Blaxican
OMFG PLULZ: DU'NT!

EDIT: Actually no. My god will beat your god stick out tongue

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Blaxican
OMFG PLULZ: DU'NT!

EDIT: Actually no. My god will beat your god stick out tongue


Hell is an integral part of Christian Faith, Culture, and History. Without Hell, there is nothing to be saved from, and therefore Jesus' sacrafice is meaningless.


Unless you are Universalist, and beleive that everyone will enter Heaven regardless of thier actions or being.



However, ur gonna have zealots like Marcello and JIA storm ur ass for that one....even logical Christians such as Regret and Nellinator still hold on to the notion of Hell

Nellinator
Not exactly true. Being saved from Hell isn't what I ever desired. Hell is inconsequential... I became a Christian to be transformed into the person I wanted to be and I developed a relationship with Christ in the process. God is about love and sincerity, not fear and backup plans. Lately the insincerity of many Christians has come up, that's not what God wants, never has been. It's important to remember that.

Blaxican
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Hell is an integral part of Christian Faith, Culture, and History. Without Hell, there is nothing to be saved from, and therefore Jesus' sacrafice is meaningless.


Unless you are Universalist, and beleive that everyone will enter Heaven regardless of thier actions or being.



However, ur gonna have zealots like Marcello and JIA storm ur ass for that one....even logical Christians such as Regret and Nellinator still hold on to the notion of Hell

Your sort of right... and sort of not. I guess I'll explain myself to the best of my ability.

JW's believe in a "hell", of sorts. However it's a bit different in that regular human beings like oruselevs do not go to hell for our sins. "Hell" is reserved for certain people, like Satan and hsi demons... and Judas, and Cain I believe. (Might have to d-check that last one...) We all sin throughout our lives and we repay our sins through death. In our religion, death is the ultimate payment for sins. This is logical I guess if you track back to Adam and Eve. they disobeyed God's command to not eat from the tree of and what was their punishment? Besides banishment Adam and Eve and "all their children" were doomed to a lfie of mortality; inevitable death.

As for Heaven we don't ALL go to heaven. Rather, afetr Armageddon and after God removes Satan from the Earth he will turn the Earth into a paradise, were there is no death, war etc... I'm sure you know the drill smile .

Tangible God
What'l happen to Mars and Jupiter though?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not exactly true. Being saved from Hell isn't what I ever desired.


You are unique then. Most Mainstream Christians are motivated by fear of Hell...no joke. No exxageration. Read any and all Christian propaganda, and you will see the threat of Hell is the most common form of persuasion.




Originally posted by Nellinator
Hell is inconsequential...


Then why does God utilize it ? erm


If it is so inconsequential, then why do you beleive in it ?





Originally posted by Nellinator
I became a Christian to be transformed into the person I wanted to be and I developed a relationship with Christ in the process.



A relationship with Christ ? How can you form a relationship with a dead person ?




Originally posted by Nellinator
God is about love and sincerity, not fear and backup plans.


Then explain:


-Sodom and Gamorra
-The Great Flood
-The Plagues of Egypt
-The Angel of Death
-The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse
-Hell



Originally posted by Nellinator
Lately the insincerity of many Christians has come up, that's not what God wants, never has been. It's important to remember that.



Lately ?


Christians have been motivated and ruled by Fear for Centuries !


No offense to you, in all honestly, but come on.....be realistic....

Christians in power have ALWAYS used fear and intimidation as a means of controlling the masses. The sincere Christians who do act out of love are still swayed by the concept of Hell, and often push this idea on others who refuse to beleive.

I know you are not ignorant of History. You know what the Churches have been responsible for, you know what Christians have done....then and now.

Either God is not real...OR....Christians are doing a horrible job trying to serve thier deity properly.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

if you have children you are kind to them but if they dont liten to you then you punish them

god told us to folo him because he created us when we do what he says he is merciful but if we dont then you go to hell

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by muslimscholar
if you have children you are kind to them but if they dont liten to you then you punish them


You don't torture your children because they don't obey



Originally posted by muslimscholar
god told us to folo him because he created us when we do what he says he is merciful but if we dont then you go to hell


HE IS NOT MERCIFUL IF HE SENDS ANYONE TO HELL


THAT IS NOT MERCY....I think you have a twisted take on definitions...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
if you have children you are kind to them but if they dont liten to you then you punish them

god told us to folo him because he created us when we do what he says he is merciful but if we dont then you go to hell

I was made by my mom and dad.

Alliance
Allegedly.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Urizen

-Sodom and Gamorra
-The Great Flood
-The Plagues of Egypt
-The Angel of Death
-The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse
-Hell

The Plagues were all acts of vengance. God may have seen them as being loving to the group that needed it.

TheAngelOfDeath . . . as in the concept of death or the final plague?

The FourHorsemen are symbloic (and invented by StJohnTheDivine)

Hell has many many interperitations if you think about it.

Alliance
Or you could just not take the bible literally and forget about all the crap that people wrote.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Or you could just not take the bible literally and forget about all the crap that people wrote.

That was basicly what I said . . .

(except the first one)

Alliance
Its been well established that punishment is not "loving"

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Its been well established that punishment is not "loving"

But what I'm saying is that the God in the bible has failings. Obviously punichment is not loving but it can be taken that God was doing those things because because he love the people of Israel.

And what about in S and M? stick out tongue

Alliance
Thats consensual.

I'm saying that people will twist the Bible into all sorts of balloon animals to make things right. Its muche easier to say that the people who wrote the bible didn't know what they were talking about, most of all in the OT.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Thats consensual.

I'm saying that people will twist the Bible into all sorts of balloon animals to make things right. Its muche easier to say that the people who wrote the bible didn't know what they were talking about, most of all in the OT.

Kay . . .

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Its been well established that punishment is not "loving" Wow, take some psychology courses and find out what lack of punishment means and the significance of punishment in normal cognitive, moral, and social development. Punishment is very loving when applied with pure motives.

Alliance
Take a psychology class and learn that tourture does not equal a "no" or a restriction of freedom.

Stoning is not punishment, its execution. So is fire and brimstone. Plagues are torture. "Punishment" in the bible is not loving.

Nellinator
Then you are not talking about punishment. Good that we cleared that up.
Now justice, which is what you are talking about, is different entirely. God punishs in the loving way and God is also a God of justice. Stoning is actually a swift death and was probably the most effective method of captial punishment available to the Jews. Plagues were punishment, they forced the Egyptians to undo the evil they were committing on the Jews. Fire and brimstone in relation to Sodom and Gomorrah is another thread and in terms of Hell is a misconception that was addressed in another thread.

Alliance
I was using punishment as it had been previously used in the thread.

Actually, hanging is quicker than stoning. Bleeding to death is really quite quick messed Stoning was used because it got the community involved.

Biblical "justice" is bullchit. Their God which magically became a global god, didn't care at all about slavery elsewhere in the world. He certianly didn't do anything when it got worse and worse. (Slavery in the ancient world was tremendously more humane than in say, the 19th century).

Since we are not talking about punishment, I'm surpised that you still are. Love does not equal biblical punishment. Biased persepctive does not equal justice. Nor does hypocrisy.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
God punishs in the loving way and God is also a God of justice.

Like a parent beating the hell out of his kid in a grocery store parking lot in plain view of dozens of other citizens and security cameras, all of which will be called into evidence at his child abuse hearing?


Originally posted by Nellinator
Stoning is actually a swift death and was probably the most effective method of captial punishment available to the Jews.

Come on man, that's just willful ignorance.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Plagues were punishment, they forced the Egyptians to undo the evil they were committing on the Jews.

You mean after he intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart time and again? That whole story is just Jewish propoganda to illustrate that god wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of their special relationship with god. Feel free to see the suffereing Jews thread for more of what I mean.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Like a parent beating the hell out of his kid in a grocery store parking lot in plain view of dozens of other citizens and security cameras, all of which will be called into evidence at his child abuse hearing?




Come on man, that's just willful ignorance.



You mean after he intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart time and again? That whole story is just Jewish propoganda to illustrate that god wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of their special relationship with god. Feel free to see the suffereing Jews thread for more of what I mean. Nope, that's not what I was referring to, honestly. We need to seperate justice and punishment.

Not really, you got any better ideas for the Jews as their weapons were not typically metal, but clubs and spears, stones worked well.

Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nope, that's not what I was referring to, honestly. We need to seperate justice and punishment.

Feel free to seperate them for us. Since you are the resident expert, feel free to speak for god, again, and tell us the difference as illustrated in god's actions as told in the bible.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really, you got any better ideas for the Jews as their weapons were not typically metal, but clubs and spears, stones worked well.

You really need to work on your historical timeline. I know people should have been a little more apparent in naming the history of human civilization. Terms like "stone age", "bronze age" and "iron age" are tricky to master; especially in only 6000 years.

This is not even open for debate. There are much more humane ways to execute a person. Poisons, animal venom, swords, etc.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.

Yeah, thanks for not addressing the point.

Nellinator
I already did wink

Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.

Oh, I did, you just don't see it.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
I already did wink

Do it again.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.

Oh, I'm positive stoning will kill someone. That's not in question.

A bunch of "escaping slaves" (which is bullshit, your own story says they were freed by god...there's no need to escape with him on your side.) that had spent hundreds of years in an advanced society would know full well how to master the art of making copper weapons and tools. Don't even pretend you don't understand that. And you really need to get past this Cecil B. DeMille idea of what slaves were in ancient Egypt...if they were really slaves at all.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Oh, I did, you just don't see it.

I guess that's because god isn't sitting on my shoulder whispering the answers in my ear.

Nellinator
Nah, I'm gonna make you read, or alternatively let you give up.

Actually, I am aware it wasn't all that bad which I somewhat addressed when I mentioned the Law mentioning that the Jews should have good will on their side. And yes, they obviously could craft things, but their history suggests that they never set up mines, they had a generation of people fed by manna and likely unskilled considering that they didn't do anything but wander for 40 years, nor had the facilities for refining copper. Smelting copper isn't a simple process and the Phillistines apparently had a monopoly on iron, making them far superior in equipment to the Israelites.

Alliance
Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.

Oh how perverse is history through one clouded lens.

Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.

Genesis 22:10

Why don't you read your bible for a change....and quit making up history.

Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.

Thundar
Originally posted by Alliance
Oh how perverse is history through one clouded lens.

Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.

Genesis 22:10

Why don't you read your bible for a change....and quit making up history.

Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.

I can only assume that you are not a firm supporter of capital punishment or any form of legal punishment with the quote above. Stonings, like other forms of punishment that we see within our judicials systems today, were used as a deterent to keep people from breaking certain laws. Simple as that.

Some might even argue that "purging the evil from among" the Israelites immediately, as oppossed to allowing it to spread - was the most loving thing God could have done.

Personally, I believe that stoning and other aspects of the Mosaic Law served their purpose for the time that they were allowed. The Law itself didn't end with Jesus, however, those who broke it were gracefully forgiven of commiting any offensses against it and offered salvation through Christ's sacrifice.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
I can only assume that you are not a firm supporter of capital punishment or any form of legal punishment with the quote above. Stonings, like other forms of punishment that we see within our judicials systems today, were used as a deterent to keep people from breaking certain laws. Simple as that.

Some might even argue that "purging the evil from among" the Israelites immediately, as oppossed to allowing it to spread - was the most loving thing God could have done.

Personally, I believe that stoning and other aspects of the Mosaic Law served their purpose for the time that they were allowed. The Law itself didn't end with Jesus, however, those who broke it were gracefully forgiven of commiting any offensses against it and offered salvation through Christ's sacrifice.

roll eyes (sarcastic) Stoning was a way to keep revenge under control. There was no court, it was more like a lynching.

Alliance
Originally posted by Thundar
Personally, I believe that stoning and other aspects of the Mosaic Law served their purpose for the time that they were allowed.

I never said they didn't. So please comment on my given opinions rather than making some up for me.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Alliance
Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.

Genesis 22:10
And did Abraham killed his son? No.

What was the reason? God sent a sheep to be slaughtered instead.

Try to post full story next time instead of parts of a story.

Originally posted by Alliance
Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.
In Islam, stoning to death is applicable only in the case of adultry. This is a great sin in Islam as it damages the moral fabric of the society. Both men and women are instructed to restrain themselves from sexual desires until marriage. Sex is important but their is a valid time for it.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
I already did wink

Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.

Oh, I did, you just don't see it.


I cannot beleive that you condone stoning


Are you really that sick minded ?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In Islam, stoning to death is applicable only in the case of adultry. This is a great sin in Islam as it damages the moral fabric of the society.



"moral fabric of society" is bullshit, especially in the case of Islam.


Which is more evil? Cheating on a husband/wife, or killing somebody by throwing stones at them, breaking thier bones, smashing thier body apart....



Yeah, ur morality is f*cking twisted...you fail thumb down

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
"moral fabric of society" is bullshit, especially in the case of Islam.
And this is flawed assumption. Islam strongly advocates the concept of morality among people.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Which is more evil? Cheating on a husband/wife, or killing somebody by throwing stones at them, breaking thier bones, smashing thier body apart....
Cheating on a faithful husband or wife is more evil in my eyes.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yeah, ur morality is f*cking twisted...you fail thumb down
Sorry! your understanding about morality seems to be lacking as well.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And this is flawed assumption. Islam strongly advocates the concept of morality among people.



Yes, bloodshed, torture, dismemberment, hanging, and other forms of torment/execution are also advocated by Islam.





Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Cheating on a faithful husband or wife is more evil in my eyes.



That's exactly what the average psychopath beleives.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sorry! your understanding about morality seems to be lacking as well.


Any logical person can see you are wrong here.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nah, I'm gonna make you read, or alternatively let you give up.

Actually, I am aware it wasn't all that bad which I somewhat addressed when I mentioned the Law mentioning that the Jews should have good will on their side. And yes, they obviously could craft things, but their history suggests that they never set up mines, they had a generation of people fed by manna and likely unskilled considering that they didn't do anything but wander for 40 years, nor had the facilities for refining copper. Smelting copper isn't a simple process and the Phillistines apparently had a monopoly on iron, making them far superior in equipment to the Israelites.

Oh, I haven't given up. And there's nothing to read, because it doesn't exist. You've done little to get your point across, which is why I asked you explain it again.


And the hair splitting over the use of metal is just ignorant on your part. It's all well and good for you to say that the Jews didn't have the means, but a huge copper producing foundry is a red herring. And producing copper is much more simple than you apparently know. Sure, it involves work, but people who were guests, slaves or pilgrims in as many lands as were the Jews, would have figured out the method. Or do you doubt the ability of "god's chosen people"?

I guess that's a redundnat question though. Since you think it took god's chosen people 40 years to walk from Egypt to Israel, you have to doubt their ability.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Cheating on a faithful husband or wife is more evil in my eyes.

Yesssssss. Of course it is.

Evil. Dear me, once upon a time that word meant something, now cheating is evil? Wrong sure, but evil? Honestly some people are just insane.

Blaxican
This whole thread is pretty worthless anyway, as their is no "eternal torture" going on in hell in the first place...

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Blaxican
This whole thread is pretty worthless anyway, as their is no "eternal torture" going on in hell in the first place...

Just lots and lots of people who believe there is.

Blaxican
I know. I'm just BS'ing around big grin

King Nothing
God is neither merciful or merciless and to call him either would be a sin. God kills when it's best, and let live when it's best. He does what is necessary, not what is merciful.

Black Dalek
Originally posted by King Nothing
God is neither merciful or merciless and to call him either would be a sin. God kills when it's best, and let live when it's best. He does what is necessary, not what is merciful.

That is a sin? Everything is a sin to god isn't it? That is a sin, that is a sin, and that also is a sin.

Blaxican
Sex isn't a sin.

Black Dalek
Originally posted by Blaxican
Sex isn't a sin.

But Masturbating and sleeping with someone that isn't your wife is.

Blaxican
Masturbating isn't a sin. At least in my Christian religion it isn't.

King Nothing
Originally posted by Black Dalek
That is a sin? Everything is a sin to god isn't it? That is a sin, that is a sin, and that also is a sin. Referring to God using human words is a sin. Or so I've heard. Saying God exists is a sin. It's strange.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Oh how perverse is history through one clouded lens.

Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.

Genesis 22:10

Why don't you read your bible for a change....and quit making up history.

Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.
Actually, no, nice try though. Abraham, was before the Egyptian captivity by more than 300 years. Obviously metal weapons existed, but were not in the possession of common people in great numbers and they would have been crude if they did. Being stabbed to death isn't quick even with modern day steel knives. Imagine bronze knives... not pretty.

Alliance
You have the mental creativity of a rock.

Its called cutting someones throat. Get it? Its a hell of a lot quicker than dying of internal bleeding/bleeding/head trauma (stoning).

Stabbing laughing out loud

Besides, if poor old Abraham can have a knife at that time, other people can 3000 years later. Certainly the Jews didn't butcher animals by stoning them.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by King Nothing
God is neither merciful or merciless and to call him either would be a sin. God kills when it's best, and let live when it's best. He does what is necessary, not what is merciful.


The absence of everything is...

several little blue dots in your signature?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
You have the mental creativity of a rock.

Its called cutting someones throat. Get it? Its a hell of a lot quicker than dying of internal bleeding/bleeding/head trauma (stoning).

Stabbing laughing out loud

Besides, if poor old Abraham can have a knife at that time, other people can 3000 years later. Certainly the Jews didn't butcher animals by stoning them. Actually, no stoning is a faster death, thanks for playing.

Alliance
Than slitting someone's jugular? You're fricking delusional. Back up your ludicrious argument.

Nellinator
Yes, bleeding takes time. Do your research on stoning then you can talk to me. Also, think about other reasons why stoning is better than throat slitting. If you can't see it you should brush up on your knowledge of execution methods. Until then...

Alliance
Yawn. You have nothing. As usual. How typical. I ask you to back something up. You just reply "you back it up."

Surprize ermm

You can't even hold a point. Stoning was chosed for a reason, its not becuase it was fast or compassionate. I don't give an eff which you think is "better." You made a false statement.

Nellinator
laughing The beauty of it is that you made the false assumption that cutting the throat is faster without backing it up. Also, you fail to realize and consider the reasons why a group is used for execution and you also apparently know absolutely nothing about stoning other than that maybe stones are used. There is no use arguing with you until you show that you have even the slightest knowledge in the area other than "bleeding makes you die".

Alliance
You're a complete dumbass. The group execution was the practically first think I mentioned. Do I need to quote it for you or can you read by yourself?

This is why I don't waste my time with idiot zealots.

You claimed that Jews did not have knives, you were wrong.

You couldn't even think that a knife was used for slitting the throat of a vic, people had to be "stabbed to death."

You also claimed that the everage man did not own a knife, that is also BS for the reasons I gave.

You've made many other claims, which you haven't backed up. I've shown several evidences that refute your claims, none of which have been addressed. I'll make a list for you tommorrow. Maybe you can figure it out then. You know shit about ancient history, or you just have your head up your ass. Likely both.

Nellinator
Oh, I saw your tidbit on the group execution, but you got it wrong. You said "because it got the community involved" which is wrong and shows your complete lack understanding of basic psychology (which you do rather often).

Religious zealots wouldn't argue this with you... You see, what you fail to realize is that stoning was one of the best available methods. You simply want the Bible to be wrong and that is your zealotry, not mine.

I did not claim that Jews did not have knives = fail.

Nitpicking and besides a solid stab to the brain would be quicker, which is exactly the point, there are other reasons why stoning was used.

What reasons? Because Abraham had one? I hope you aren't talking about the Abraham who was lord of a household of thousands of people... and by knives I was talking about non-utilitarian knives because we all know how humane conventional knives would be...

You have yet to prove me wrong, you still know very little about anything we have talked about other than "cutting jugulars make you bleed to death" and "knives existed back then". Wow, put it in context and you haven't made a valid point yet, especially considering the fact that you still don't understand stoning or the principles behind group execution.

I suggest your starting place should be for you to look up how they actually did stonings in the majority of cases. You tell me what they did then we can actually talk about it.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, bloodshed, torture, dismemberment, hanging, and other forms of torment/execution are also advocated by Islam.
And all these deeds do not take place in Western nations?

And you are blaming wrong doings of people on Islam which is not good. Islam does not preaches hate, killing, torture and bloodshed.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That's exactly what the average psychopath beleives.
Average psychopath believes this? I consider both those acts you mentioned as Evil but to me a cheating wife is more Evil. This might be not a big sin in your region but it is in our case.

But even in this case, Islam allows us only to divorce a cheating wife and not beat her to death that some stupid people do.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Any logical person can see you are wrong here.
No.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alliance
You have the mental creativity of a rock.

He also has the ability of a rock when it comes to responding to a thread until it's been so long that he thinks no one will notice he doesn't answer any questions posed to him.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes, bleeding takes time. Do your research on stoning then you can talk to me. Also, think about other reasons why stoning is better than throat slitting. If you can't see it you should brush up on your knowledge of execution methods. Until then...

Bleeding takes time, yes, but a person doesn't have to wait until they are compleltly bled out till to be dead. Stoning is not an effeciant form of execution of anything, man or beast.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Bleeding takes time, yes, but a person doesn't have to wait until they are compleltly bled out till to be dead. Stoning is not an effeciant form of execution of anything, man or beast.

It also isn't very kosher

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Yet if we don't believe in him, we'd suffer horrible pain for eternity. Thanks God.

Black Dalek, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Black Dalek, without faith it is impossible to please God.

I think what you mean to say

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Black Dalek, it is impossible to please God.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes, bleeding takes time. Do your research on stoning then you can talk to me. Also, think about other reasons why stoning is better than throat slitting. If you can't see it you should brush up on your knowledge of execution methods. Until then...



You lost all my respect when you condoned stoning...you are insane.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It also isn't very kosher

Quite right.



When did he get back?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You lost all my respect when you condoned stoning...you are insane. I'd hold that judgement... No one here understands what stoning actually entailed apparently. It was instantaneous which is why that whole earlier argument was to my amusement. I don't condone stoning BTW, but it was the most effective method of capital punishment that there was.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
I'd hold that judgement... No one here understands what stoning actually entailed apparently. It was instantaneous which is why that whole earlier argument was to my amusement. I don't condone stoning BTW, but it was the most effective method of capital punishment that there was.

You mean stoning as it is usually historically defined? When a group of people armed with stones propel them towards then person being stoned until the point they are dead?

Nellinator
Nope, stoning in Jewish law was falling from a cliff high enough to ensure instantaneous death without causing disfiguration. The Misna (I'm pretty sure it's the Mishna) outlines it and stems from the earliest tradition. However, in Jesus's time it was not always practiced as such allow it was supposed to be. Stonings in the common understanding were actually against Jewish tradition and law.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nope, stoning in Jewish law was falling from a cliff high enough to ensure instantaneous death without causing disfiguration. The Misna (I'm pretty sure it's the Mishna) outlines it and stems from the earliest tradition. However, in Jesus's time it was not always practiced as such allow it was supposed to be. Stonings in the common understanding were actually against Jewish tradition and law.

Well that sounds like quite a balance - high enough to insure instant death but not high enough to see the body get all bloody.

Considering people can survive falling of high cliffs but die from falling down stairs it sounds like a dodgy system that could be prone to people not dying instantly at all.

Nellinator
Pretty much the best system out there, not 100% obviously but it humane in that it was done the swiftest way possible. If it didn't work they used over methods to make it as quick as possible. Suffering was not desired or allowed in Jewish law in cases of capital punishment. Neither was capital punishment without trial with more than two eyewitnesses. Beheading was sometimes used also, because it was swift. Slightly more gruesome but very effective was ramming a superheated metal rod into the mouth as it was instantaneous, luckily it was not so popular. Ultimately, the point is that the Bible is not promoting sadism with stoning.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Pretty much the best system out there, not 100% obviously but it humane in that it was done the swiftest way possible. If it didn't work they used over methods to make it as quick as possible. Suffering was not desired or allowed in Jewish law in cases of capital punishment. Neither was capital punishment without trial with more than two eyewitnesses. Beheading was sometimes used also, because it was swift. Slightly more gruesome but very effective was ramming a superheated metal rod into the mouth as it was instantaneous, luckily it was not so popular. Ultimately, the point is that the Bible is not promoting sadism with stoning.

Once again, two steps forward and three steps back.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
Pretty much the best system out there, not 100% obviously but it humane in that it was done the swiftest way possible. If it didn't work they used over methods to make it as quick as possible. Suffering was not desired or allowed in Jewish law in cases of capital punishment. Neither was capital punishment without trial with more than two eyewitnesses. Beheading was sometimes used also, because it was swift. Slightly more gruesome but very effective was ramming a superheated metal rod into the mouth as it was instantaneous, luckily it was not so popular. Ultimately, the point is that the Bible is not promoting sadism with stoning.

Clearly.

Nellinator
Sarcasm? Or are you actually agreeing somewhat?

Lord Urizen
Sarcasm

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Alliance
God. Lamo.

Lamo. God. Lolz. They are all out there.

Demon_sniper

Black Dalek
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys should be more appreciative of the Lord God


He tortured his only son so that he wouldn't have to torture the rest of you. smile

We're still getting tortured daily. Hell, maybe tortured worse than Jesus.

Blaxican
Been hung on a wooden stake by your hands lately?

Black Dalek
Originally posted by Blaxican
Been hung on a wooden stake by your hands lately?

No.
























































Spiked Dildo.

Blaxican
Not quite as bad, I'd imagine. The death would be quicker, not as painful.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Demon_sniper
dude, that thought just CREEPS me out, just imagine:
"son, i'm killing you to save humanity from the fate i imposed on them"

Yeah, 'cause Jesus was all like, "Awww, Dad, do you have to?"

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