Can an atheist be spiritual?

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Shakyamunison
If you do not believe in god or anything mystical, can you be spiritual?

And if the answer is no, are you missing out on an important part of the human experience?

Alliance
I am athiest. I consider myself spiritual in a sense.

Tangible God
Just because I don't believe in God, doesn't mean I don't believe in all the colours of the wind.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
I am athiest. I consider myself spiritual in a sense.


How does atheism have any thing to do with spiritualism?

Spiritual definition
http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/spiritual

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a: of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs>
b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3: concerned with religious values
4: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a: of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

If you don't believe in a god, how can you believe in a spirit? It's all myth.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Tangible God
Just because I don't believe in God, doesn't mean I don't believe in all the colours of the wind.

The wind is colorless. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Tptmanno1
Well being spiritual is rather vague, even with the dicionary definition. Maybe mystical is a better way of saying what I feel, but its a sence of purpose and possible connected to other people. That is not something controled by a god, but Human controled.
or something of the like.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Well being spiritual is rather vague, even with the dicionary definition. Maybe mystical is a better way of saying what I feel, but its a sence of purpose and possible connected to other people. That is not something controled by a god, but Human controled.
or something of the like.

I do get what you are saying, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't believe in god, doesn't that mean you believe in science? If the answer is yes, remember science does not support mysticism.

Tptmanno1
True,
Firstly, I don't exactly believe in human connectiveness, but I do know some Athiests that believe that.
Also, I'm not sure what you call it, but what do you call questioning reality, and wondering what exactly is true and what coupld possibly be imaginary.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Tptmanno1
True,
Firstly, I don't exactly believe in human connectiveness, but I do know some Athiests that believe that.
Also, I'm not sure what you call it, but what do you call questioning reality, and wondering what exactly is true and what coupld possibly be imaginary.

No one knows. Even science will tell you that at it's very core is a set of assumptions.

Someone greater then I once said: "To search for God, is to create God." So, if you are an atheist and wish to be spiritual, you have to somehow create God. You don't have to call it God, maybe something like the Mystic Law, but it is still God.

Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you don't believe in god, doesn't that mean you believe in science?

no.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
no.

You ether buy into some mythology or you stick with observable reality, what other choice is there?

Tangible God
You can have your God without it being the one from the strict, Earth is 6000 this summer, Christian dogmas.

Seraphim XIII
If you're spiritual, it defeats the purpose of being atheist, one would think.

Storm
The problem with answering such a question is that the term spiritual is so vague and ill-defined most of the time.

For some people, it involves a variety of very personal things like self-realization, philosophical searching, etc. For many others, it is something like a very deep and strong emotional reaction to the wonders of life. All of these and similar senses of spirituality are entirely compatible with atheism.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How does atheism have any thing to do with spiritualism?

Spiritual definition
http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/spiritual

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a: of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs>
b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3: concerned with religious values
4: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a: of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

If you don't believe in a god, how can you believe in a spirit? It's all myth.

The spirit can also refer to your mind. Also, just because one of the myths, "God", is not accepted doesn't mean you can't believe in all other sorts of wacky stuff (Goblins, Dragons, Ghosts, Jesus).

For example I would claim you and debbie are in fact atheists, though you use the term God in ways that I would say you'd be better off in a mental asylum, and probably don't see yourself as atheists (or nutjobs for that matter)

So...answer: You can be spiritual and an atheist.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Storm
The problem with answering such a question is that the term spiritual is so vague and ill-defined most of the time.

For some people, it involves a variety of very personal things like self-realization, philosophical searching, etc. For many others, it is something like a very deep and strong emotional reaction to the wonders of life. All of these and similar senses of spirituality are entirely compatible with atheism.

No, it's not fair to say that spiritualism is generally compatible with Atheism, especially after your first statement, which is that the meaning of spirituality is quite expendable.

Many people believe spiritualism to be that they CONTAIN a spirit and have a connection with a higher power or that the said entity has a divine purpose. That would not collectively fit with Atheism, although other perceptions of spiritualism would.

Help
Isn't Bhuddism spiritual and Atheistic.It's gone quite well for them.

Boris
No, of course not, as with god, spirits do not exist.

Lord Urizen
Many Christians and Muslims aren't spiritual, so likewise, why can't an Atheist be spiritual ?

Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You ether buy into some mythology or you stick with observable reality, what other choice is there?

Logic. Existentialism. General spiritualism.

You presented the choices as if:

1. People have an option to believe science
2. Science is anti- or the opposite of religion.
3. Science disproves god, which it does not.

So, i think it was a crappy statement.

Originally posted by Boris
No, of course not, as with god, spirits do not exist.

If spiritualism was about believeing in spirits, maybe you'd be correct.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Logic. Existentialism. General spiritualism.

You presented the choices as if:

1. People have an option to believe science
2. Science is anti- or the opposite of religion.
3. Science disproves god, which it does not.

So, i think it was a crappy statement.


1. People do have an option to believe science. There are many people who believe that science is of the devil.

2. I don't believe that science is anti-religion, but some religious people do.

3. My statement did not make this accusation.

You had good point, but you ruin it with childish words like "crappy".

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
1. People do have an option to believe science. There are many people who believe that science is of the devil.

2. I don't believe that science is anti-religion, but some religious people do.

3. My statement did not make this accusation.

You had good point, but you ruin it with childish words like "crappy".

Choice of words doesn't make points better or worse.

Anyways, refer to my post, it solves your dilemma.

Boris

Storm

lord xyz
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you do not believe in god or anything mystical, can you be spiritual?

And if the answer is no, are you missing out on an important part of the human experience? What does spiritual mean?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lord xyz
What does spiritual mean?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Spiritual definition
http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/spiritual

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a: of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs>
b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3: concerned with religious values
4: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a: of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

Adam_PoE

Mindship
If you mean spiritual with regard to a level of reality, wherein one seeks connection with a supernatural / divine / mystical dimension to the universe, something which transcends the mental and material realms, then obviously, an atheist can not be spiritual as the atheist does not believe such realms exist.

However, if one means spiritual exclusively as an attitude or moral perspective, something in a social / psychological / humanistic sense, then of course an atheist can be spiritual.

stick out tongue

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
If you mean spiritual with regard to a level of reality, wherein one seeks connection with a supernatural / divine / mystical dimension to the universe, something which transcends the mental and material realms, then obviously, an atheist can not be spiritual as the atheist does not believe such realms exist.

However, if one means spiritual exclusively as an attitude or moral perspective, something in a social / psychological / humanistic sense, then of course an atheist can be spiritual.

stick out tongue

How does the word spiritual equal moral?

Mindship
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How does the word spiritual equal moral?

Kind of a heart-felt sense of proper respect and care toward one's fellow man (hey, I'm tryin' to cover all my bases here).

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
Kind of a heart-felt sense of proper respect and care toward one's fellow man (hey, I'm tryin' to cover all my bases here).

I don't consider that to fall under the definition of spiritual. Atheist can be moral good people who have a connection to their family and community. They can even "admire and feel reverent toward the awesome powers of nature", but they cannot be spiritual.

Mindship
They can have 'school spirit'.

Storm
Spirituality is one of those words which has as many definitions as it has people trying to define it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
They can have 'school spirit'.

eek! chimp laughing

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Storm
Spirituality is one of those words which has as many definitions as it has people trying to define it.

I provided a definition for the thread. big grin

Mindship
jump <--- has lots of spirit

btw, Storm, love that sig, but I keep getting a neck cramp everytime you post something.

Shelbert Lemon
I do not know, interesting question though.

At first I want to say no... but then thinking about it a moment... if you feel connected to nature... is that connectivity... spiritual? messed

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
jump <--- has lots of spirit


Yes, there are other meanings for the word spirit, beer, but that is not what I was getting at. obst_049

Mindship
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, there are other meanings for the word spirit, beer, but that is not what I was getting at. obst_049 evil face


btw, where are you getting all those cool smilies from?

lord xyz
No, an atheist can't be spiritual, if it's to do with religion. UNLESS they are a part of a religion which doesn't share the belief of a God.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lord xyz
No, an atheist can't be spiritual, if it's to do with religion. UNLESS they are a part of a religion which doesn't share the belief of a God.

How can an atheist be part of a religion? Wouldn't the religion be just a philosophy without a God?

Storm
Some humanists call themselves religious and many members of Unitarian-Universalism and Ethical Culture societies are also nonbelievers. What you then have are religious atheists.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Storm
Some humanists call themselves religious and many members of Unitarian-Universalism and Ethical Culture societies are also nonbelievers. What you then have are religious atheists.

Can you give me an example of a religious atheists?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you give me an example of a religious atheists?

You are a religious atheist.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Bardock42
You are a religious atheist. I think Buddha counts as a god.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lord xyz
I think Buddha counts as a god.

No

lord xyz
geoij

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lord xyz
I think Buddha counts as a god.

No, Buddha was just a man. I believe in the Mystic Law, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, Buddha was just a man. I believe in the Mystic Law, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

So you are an "atheist" (no God) .... but you are Religious.

Also, I assume you have me on ignore, must be annoying to get your threads answered after the first post, so I understand it.

Quiero Mota
No

Bardock42
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No

T-they can though.

Storm
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you give me an example of a religious atheists?
Originally posted by Bardock42
You are a religious atheist.
Many forms of Buddhism are essentially atheistic. At most they regard the existence of gods as possible, but often they dismiss gods as simply irrelevant to the important task of overcoming suffering. As a consequence, many Buddhists not only dismiss the relevancy of gods, but also the existence of gods.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Bardock42
T-they can though.

No they can't, calling an athiest spiritual is an oxymoron.

The root word of "spiritual" is spirit...now if a non-beliver doesn't even believe in those, then how can they be spiritual? It makes no sense.

Storm
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of any gods, not the absence of belief in the supernatural, the absence of superstitions, the absence of irrational beliefs, etc.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No they can't, calling an athiest spiritual is an oxymoron.

The root word of "spiritual" is spirit...now if a non-beliver doesn't even believe in those, then how can they be spiritual? It makes no sense.

An atheist is not the synonym of a "non-believer" though, on the contrary, atheists believe that there is no God. They might very well believe that there are Spirits or other supernatural things though, which can make them spiritual without believing in a God (atheist).

WrathfulDwarf
Atheists are human beings...right?

Why wouldn't they be capable of having a spirituality?

Alliance
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No they can't, calling an athiest spiritual is an oxymoron.

No. It isn't. Why does a spirit have to be a supernatural religious presence.

Does that mean atheists belive that people dont' have souls?

As very much an athiest and a spiritual person myself, there is a lot more to live that materialistic ends. People have souls. I believe they die with the person, they are the product of biology, not god, but they are still there.

I believe nature has a spirit.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Storm
Where did I claim it was generally compatible with atheism?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII


Lets look at the whole quote, shall we?

Originally posted by Storm
The problem with answering such a question is that the term spiritual is so vague and ill-defined most of the time.

For some people, it involves a variety of very personal things like self-realization, philosophical searching, etc. For many others, it is something like a very deep and strong emotional reaction to the wonders of life. All of these and similar senses of spirituality are entirely compatible with atheism.

Oh...she gave the types of spiritualities that are compatible....seems like she didn't claim that spirituality generally is compatible.

Seraphim XIII

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII



And?

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
And?

Ugh ...

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Ugh ...
No, seriously, she didn't say or imply what you claimed she did, lets just drop it right there.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, seriously, she didn't say or imply what you claimed she did, lets just drop it right there.

No, not quite.

she generalized that a large number of spiritual types could be used by atheists. You quoted her yourself.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
No, not quite.

she generalized that a large number of spiritual types could be used by atheists. You quoted her yourself.

She said a large number of spiritul types could be used by atheists she did not say.

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
that spiritualism is generally compatible with Atheism

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
She said a large number of spiritul types could be used by atheists she did not say.

Well, yeah. She sort of did say that. She brought up a majority of the types of spiritualism and said they were compatible with atheism. That's generalizing. It's not hard to understand.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Well, yeah. She sort of did say that. She brought up a majority of the types of spiritualism and said they were compatible with atheism. That's generalizing. It's not hard to understand.

Not hard to understand, no, not what happened though. You don't know how she used many. 10% of a million could mean many people....she didn't say that it is generally compatible and I am sure she didn't mean it.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
Not hard to understand, no, not what happened though. You don't know how she used many. 10% of a million could mean many people....she didn't say that it is generally compatible and I am sure she didn't mean it.

Of course she didn't say it, but she displayed examples of a few direct definitions of what spiritualism supposedly is, seeing as it's very expendable. Then, she deemed them compatible with Atheism. She generalized.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Of course she didn't say it, but she displayed examples of a few direct definitions of what spiritualism supposedly is, seeing as it's very expendable. Then, she deemed them compatible with Atheism. She generalized.

No.

She said those examples are compatible.

One example would be absolutely enough to answer the question.

No generalizing going on.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
No.

She said those examples are compatible.

One example would be absolutely enough to answer the question.

No generalizing going on.

But she didn't use one example and she said they were compatible. She was generalizing that those types were compatible.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
But she didn't use one example and she said they were compatible. She was generalizing that those types were compatible.

She was naming types that were compatible. If that's generalizing, what is not generalizing then?

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
She was naming types that were compatible. If that's generalizing, what is not generalizing then?

She stated a few types of spiritualism that are widely conceived as what spiritualism is, excluding the "Soul" definition. That's two of three. Then, she said these two were compatible with Atheism. She generalized that the basic majority definitions she mentioned of spiritualism were compatible with Atheism.

So simple.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
She stated a few types of spiritualism that are widely conceived as what spiritualism is, excluding the "Soul" definition. That's two of three. Then, she said these two were compatible with Atheism. She generalized that the basic majority definitions she mentioned of spiritualism were compatible with Atheism.

So simple.

She didn't. She said that the definitions she gave were compatible.

2 and 3 are Prime Numbers...am I generalizing 2 and 3 now?

There was no generalizing, just attributing definitions to a concept....as such absolutely acceptable and a perfectly good answer to the question. That you object to the usage of the word "many" in .... numerous posts, is of no matter.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
She didn't. She said that the definitions she gave were compatible.

2 and 3 are Prime Numbers...am I generalizing 2 and 3 now?

There was no generalizing, just attributing definitions to a concept....as such absolutely acceptable and a perfectly good answer to the question. That you object to the usage of the word "many" in .... numerous posts, is of no matter.

Your analogy is irrelevant to the scenario here. She basically spelt out the definition for spiritualism and deemed it applicable to atheism. GENERALIZATION, Bardock.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Your analogy is irrelevant to the scenario here. She basically spelt out the definition for spiritualism and deemed it applicable to atheism. GENERALIZATION, Bardock.

A definition...not the.

Also leaving room for other definitions. Just saying that those she named are applicable.

NO GENERALIZATION.

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
A definition...not the.

Also leaving room for other definitions. Just saying that those she named are applicable.

NO GENERALIZATION.

No, she basically left room for A definition, Bardock. She basically stated what spiritualism essentially was and classified it as applicable to atheism. Get real.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
No, she basically left room for A definition, Bardock. She basically stated what spiritualism essentially was and classified it as applicable to atheism. Get real.

I am real. Also able to comprehend what is said.

"For some people, it involves a variety of very personal things like self-realization, philosophical searching, etc."

One definition of spirituality is included in that....so far so easy.

For many others, it is something like a very deep and strong emotional reaction to the wonders of life.

Another definition that is supported by a considerable amount of people (not a majority)....also pretty easy so far.

"All of these and similar senses of spirituality are entirely compatible with atheism."

These two definitions are compatible with atheism as would be others that are similar to those......


See how she nowhere said those are the major definitions or all definitions there are?

She just talked about two definitions that are applicable to atheism. A perfectly fine answer to this thread. There is no generalization anywhere in there. No claim that they are essential or superior to other definitions. Just that they exist.

Can you drop it now? Seeing that you are so incredibly wrong?

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am real. Also able to comprehend what is said.

"For some people, it involves a variety of very personal things like self-realization, philosophical searching, etc."

One definition of spirituality is included in that....so far so easy.

For many others, it is something like a very deep and strong emotional reaction to the wonders of life.

Another definition that is supported by a considerable amount of people (not a majority)....also pretty easy so far.

"All of these and similar senses of spirituality are entirely compatible with atheism."

These two definitions are compatible with atheism as would be others that are similar to those......


See how she nowhere said those are the major definitions or all definitions there are?

She just talked about two definitions that are applicable to atheism. A perfectly fine answer to this thread. There is no generalization anywhere in there. No claim that they are essential or superior to other definitions. Just that they exist.

Can you drop it now? Seeing that you are so incredibly wrong?


Yes, she talked about two different definitions. THEN she stated those and OTHERS similar, which would be other definitions regarding spiritualism, were applicable to atheism.

THAT'S A GENERALIZATION. You have it right in the post you made proving she generalized.

Nice.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Yes, she talked about two different definitions. THEN she stated those and OTHERS similar, which would be other definitions regarding spiritualism, were applicable to atheism.

THAT'S A GENERALIZATION. You have it right in the post you made proving she generalized.

Nice.

...

no

She stated that there are others that apply if they similar.

What the hell do you think generalization is?

Seraphim XIII
Originally posted by Bardock42
...

no

She stated that there are others that apply if they similar.

What the hell do you think generalization is?

"others that apply if they similar. "

What??!

Bardock42
Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
"others that apply if they similar. "

What??!

"If they are similar"

Forgive this mistake.


Anything else in my post you would like to address? Maybe one of the multiple arguments?

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alliance
No. It isn't. Why does a spirit have to be a supernatural religious presence.


Because thats the very definition of the word.

Can you scientifically prove spirits' existence? No, so there you go.

Originally posted by Alliance
Does that mean atheists belive that people dont' have souls?

As very much an athiest and a spiritual person myself, there is a lot more to live that materialistic ends. People have souls. I believe they die with the person, they are the product of biology, not god, but they are still there.


Just because an atheist practices martial arts, does yoga, and meditates while listening to ambience CD's doesn't mean theyre 'spiritual'.

Originally posted by Alliance
I believe nature has a spirit.

What the f**k?............

Bardock42
Originally posted by Quiero Mota

What the f**k?............

Yeah, my thought exactly.




Though, to be honest it is the exact same thought I get when you folks tell me you believe in some sort of God creating stuff and telling us stuff that we have to do...and stuff.



Stuff.

TRH
stuff?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by TRH
stuff?

I agree, stuff. evil face

TRH
what stuff?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by TRH
what stuff?

God's stuff, but I think it's off topic. wink

TRH
oh

Shakyamunison
Next question:

How does a spiritual atheist talk to a non-atheist about big spiritual questions?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Next question:

How does a spiritual atheist talk to a non-atheist about big spiritual questions?


Odd question. I suppose similar to how we talk to each other, me calling you an idiot, you saying no, I am right. Something like that.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Odd question. I suppose similar to how we talk to each other, me calling you an idiot, you saying no, I am right. Something like that.

You seen to not understand.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You seen to not understand.

*seem

Alright, quite possible, enlighten me then.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
*seem

Alright, quite possible, enlighten me then.

No, you will only find an opportunity to insult me.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, you will only find an opportunity to insult me.

I promise I won't (this once). Just try to bring your point across and I will explain my standpoint, civilly.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
I promise I won't (this once). Just try to bring your point across and I will explain my standpoint, civilly.

Said the scorpion to the fox.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Said the scorpion to the fox.

Aww, that's sweet, I'm the scorpion?


No, but really, by whatever honour I have, please tell me what you meant, and I will either respond in a serious and uninsulting manner or not at all, whichever you prefer, you just tell me. Please.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Aww, that's sweet, I'm the scorpion?


No, but really, by whatever honour I have, please tell me what you meant, and I will either respond in a serious and uninsulting manner or not at all, whichever you prefer, you just tell me. Please.

You don't know the story about the scorpion and the fox? eek! And you would be the scorpion.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You don't know the story about the scorpion and the fox? eek! And you would be the scorpion.

Quite excellent fable now (overlooking that you basically insulted me), would you elaborate on your point?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Bardock42
I promise I won't (this once). Just try to bring your point across and I will explain my standpoint, civilly.


I'm not sure that's possible....you probly have to try extra hard to make your point without insulting someone

Lord Urizen
I am not religious, but I consider myself spiritual in other ways...



I beleive in the existance of the spirit....a collective spirit....that part of us which belongs to nature


I do not beleive the spirit is "good or bad" ..it just is.


Also I beleive the world is far more than just the physical...

Alliance
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Because thats the very definition of the word.

Can you scientifically prove spirits' existence? No, so there you go.

Do we need to scientifically prove a spirits existance? no. Can we logically prove it. Maybe. So I don't see a problem with my opinon.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Just because an atheist practices martial arts, does yoga, and meditates while listening to ambience CD's doesn't mean theyre 'spiritual'.

Then I guess you should really re-examine your definition of spiritual, especially in the context of meditation.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What the f**k?............

What the f**k?

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alliance
What the f**k?

My bad, I should've explained what I meant by "What the f**k?". By that I meant, what do you mean? Can you explain why you think "nature has a soul", and also as an athiest, can you define "soul" in the manner youre using it?

m. sade
Originally posted by Quiero Mota

Can you scientifically prove spirits' existence? No, so there you go.


There's very little that you can "scientifically prove" in the social sciences, or at least anything very interesting or meaningful. There really is no empirical support to scientifically conclude that, in this case, there is no spirit or whatever. Basically, what you've done is apply a theoretical perspective or "lens" to a set of observations. The conclusion you've come to is really the result of the way you chose to interpret the evidence, and it doesn't represent any sort of irrefutable logic or connection. At some point you crossed the line from scientific observation into the realm of metaphysical speculation.


Of course, the lack of empirical evidence of 'spirit' gives you reason to doubt its existence to varying degrees depending on how illogical someone's definition is, but that doesn't mean you can categorically deny its existence with any finality.


And I'm not sorry to say that to investigate what 'spirit' is, will probably require a spiritual, not a scientific approach to uncover. Based on the evidence at hand, all we can say is that 'spirit' is something that exists within subjective experience or that it is a label that we attach something we experience subjectively. A person would have to gain a personal understanding of what it is that people are referring to when they speak of spirit (and it would likely be different for every person based on their experiences and understanding etc) by experiencing it for themselves. And finally, they would have to figure out what it might correspond to that could be measured and observed using scientific methods. In the end, you wouldn't conclude that 'spirit' exists, only that it refers to a valid experience (practically the same thing), which I would say is something you already knew. It was just the nature of that experience that was a mystery.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'm not sure that's possible....you probly have to try extra hard to make your point without insulting someone

Anyone catch the irony of all the folks insulting me while pointing out that I insult people a lot?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Bardock42
Anyone catch the irony of all the folks insulting me while pointing out that I insult people a lot?


I insult people when they deserve it....and when I say "deserve it" I mean when a person states something entirely ignorant and hateful, which a lot of people on these forums do.


You insult people simply because:

1) You disagree with them

2) You think what they said is "stupid"

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I insult people when they deserve it....and when I say "deserve it" I mean when a person states something entirely ignorant and hateful, which a lot of people on these forums do.


You insult people simply because:

1) You disagree with them

2) You think what they said is "stupid"

Anyone catch the irony that is second point is similar to the reasons why he insults people?

Also, you misunderstood what I said, Urizen.

I can understand that Shakya and you think that I insult anyone I want, for no reason, that is not the case though. Like you I insult people that say something ignorant, it just happens that you two are actually people that are ignorant or severely dumb in many cases.

Now, could we please get back on topic? It's okay if he doesn't want to answer me on topic, but he should rather shut the **** up then and not talk about how I insult him and others all the time, that is, for one, insulting to me and also absolutely off topic.

Can I consider this matter settled now?

Storm
Please work out your differences via PM. And member bashing will under no circumstances be tolerated.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Bardock42
I can understand that Shakya and you think that I insult anyone I want, for no reason, that is not the case though. Like you I insult people that say something ignorant, it just happens that you two are actually people that are ignorant or severely dumb in many cases.



Are you somehow immune from ignorance ? erm


If not, then shut the **** up

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Storm
Please work out your differences via PM. And member bashing will under no circumstances be tolerated.

Sorry Storm

JacopeX
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you do not believe in god or anything mystical, can you be spiritual?

And if the answer is no, are you missing out on an important part of the human experience? Despite Sence, No.

Punkyhermy
sure, why not?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by JacopeX
Despite Sence, No.


Why not ?



I don't beleive in God, but I beleive in the Human Spirit and the Spirit of Nature..does that not make me spiritual ?

Alliance
Why does a soul have to be supernatural?

Nellinator
You'd have to define soul then before any argument can be made, but because of varying views on what a soul is the argument can be a difficult one to have.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
You'd have to define soul then before any argument can be made, but because of varying views on what a soul is the argument can be a difficult one to have.

I'm talking about the biblical definition of a soul, or spirituality.

PITT_HAPPENS

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Are you somehow immune from ignorance ? erm


If not, then shut the **** up

Yes, I happen to be.

It's a curse.....yet a gift.Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm talking about the biblical definition of a soul, or spirituality. You mean, can you be an atheist but believe that the biblical soul exists....well, no, that won't work out.

Shakyamunison

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We agree.

$n = 0;

while ($n < 1) {

echo "thumb up";
$n--;

}

stick out tongue

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS

$n = 0;

while ($n < 1) {

echo "thumb up";
$n--;

}

stick out tongue

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
laughing

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you do not believe in god or anything mystical, can you be spiritual?

And if the answer is no, are you missing out on an important part of the human experience?

There's a difference between an atheist and a materialist. Hard-line materialists would be hard pressed to consider anything about their beliefs "spiritual". But atheism isn't always at odds with certain mystical beliefs....just usually.

For example, I'm an atheist who can also, in good conscience, call himself a Taoist (albeit a non-practicing one...I merely agree with the principles, ideas, and teachings).

Alliance
Which is NOT actually Taoism.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Alliance
Which is NOT actually Taoism.

confused

What, believing in the messages of the philosophy doesn't make me one? Fair enough...I suppose there's various degrees of involvement.

Alliance
Taoism is a religion. It is based on the belief in supernatural powers. You cannot simultaneously suscribe to the principles of a faith and deny principles of faith. You may include elements of Taoist philosophy, but even that borders on hypocrisay. You certainly can't define yourself as an *insert religion here.*

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Alliance
Taoism is a religion. It is based on the belief in supernatural powers. You cannot simultaneously suscribe to the principles of a faith and deny principles of faith. You may include elements of Taoist philosophy, but even that borders on hypocrisay. You certainly can't define yourself as an *insert religion here.*

Fair enough, but people support some ideas of faith and deny others all the time (though I dislike the word "faith" altogether, as it implies something that is believed blindly).

When I say I am Taoist, or at least in agreement with much of it, I'm mainly saying that I subscribe to a non-dualistic view of the world, which is the main idea behind the Tao. As I understand it, the supernatural beliefs and such are secondary (or even nonexistent sometimes) depending on which 'school' of Taoism you subscribe to.

So no, maybe I can't call myself one and be wholly correct, especially depending on which particular taoist path you're referring to.

leonheartmm
spiritualit is not = belief in GOD or the god presented in the abrahamic relegions. it isnt even a belief in any GOD. its simply belief in one form or another of supernatural/non casuality/unseens forces or entities/phenomenon. a MATERIALIST can never really be spiritual{thank marx and lenin for forever connecting atheism/materialism/socialism wronly for the general people} but theres absolutely NO reason why an atheist can not be spiritual. furthermore, most proclaimed atheist are agnostics with an atheistic inclination{often present as psychological backlash to the wrong relegions which bombard the person's mind everyday} and an agnostic can surely believe in spiritual things. although the more ethnocentric organised relegion followers choose to make god{therir version}/spirituality, synonyms, they are infact two different things, not really dependant on the other.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Alliance
Why does a soul have to be supernatural?

It doesnt but people usually consider it to be something supernatural.

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