Myth of Mother Teresa

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lil bitchiness
The common belief is that Mother Teresa worked with the sick and destitute to lovingly return them to health.

An examination of her missions will show that this is far from the case. Mother Teresa believed that there is spiritual value in suffering.

Once, when tending to a patient dying of cancer, she said "You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you." (!!!)
(Christoper Hitchens - The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice, p. 41).

For this reason she would not prescribe pain killers in her clinics, choosing instead to allow her patients to experience the suffering that she believed would bring them closer to Christ. Despite the tens of millions of dollars donated to her charity each year, her missions were rudimentary and offered no real health care. Her missions mainly catered to the critically ill and simply afforded them a place to go to die.
Intrestingly, when Mother Teresa became ill she would travel to the finest health care facilities to receive treatment.

Furthermore, her main object appears to have been spreading of the most extreme form of Catholicism, through help of Vatican, rather than saintly helping of the poor and sick.


So, why is it that a great majority of people still hold this saint-like view of Mother Teresa?
Does anyone here believe Mother Teresa was a 'humanitarian'? Or just a ruthless missionary?

Discuss.

Alliance
Don't most Christians believe that suffering is a part of life?

lil bitchiness
Suffering is the part of life. And its not Christians that believe that, but Buddhists.

I am not dicussing Christians as a group, but Mother Teresa.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Suffering is the part of life. And its not Christians that believe that, but Buddhists.

I am not dicussing Christians as a group, but Mother Teresa.

Buddhism says that suffering exists in this world and here is how you can avoid suffering, but Christianity says "pick up your cross and follow me". In other words, Christianity puts value on the act of suffering. So, I am not surprised that Mother Teresa found spiritual value in suffering. Also, death is of great value to Christians, so for Mother Teresa to combine suffering and death together, in her clinic, would be saintly of her. no expression

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Buddhism says that suffering exists in this world and here is how you can avoid suffering, but Christianity says "pick up your cross and follow me". In other words, Christianity puts value on the act of suffering. So, I am not surprised that Mother Teresa found spiritual value in suffering. Also, death is of great value to Christians, so for Mother Teresa to combine suffering and death together, in her clinic, would be saintly of her. no expression

Which I have establihsed in my first post.

And just for future referance, I am not asking an explanation on why Mother Teresa did what she did - I already gathered that from Hitchens' extensive research and evaluation.

My question is WHY is mother Teresa still seen as a saint like, with atheists and non-atheists like?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Which I have establihsed in my first post.

And just for future referance, I am not asking an explanation on why Mother Teresa did what she did - I already gathered that from Hitchens' extensive research and evaluation.

My question is WHY is mother Teresa still seen as a saint like, with atheists and non-atheists like?

What does saint like mean to you?

Storm
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Once, when tending to a patient dying of cancer, she said "You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you." (!!!)
(Christoper Hitchens - The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice, p. 41).
To which the patient replied, "Then please tell him to stop kissing me."

Her theology of suffering also produced the following quote: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

lil bitchiness
Which is disturbing on a whole other level.

It is interesting though, that the Mother Teressa myth has not penetrated the mainstream belief - yet, and one must wonder why.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Which is disturbing on a whole other level.

It is interesting though, that the Mother Teressa myth has not penetrated the mainstream belief - yet, and one must wonder why.

The power of Christ.

Alliance
No. Many Christians believe that suffering is a part of life and is good for them, for they suffer as Jesus did on the cross. (as your quote alluded to)

Suffering is a way to mimic Jesus, which is why so many radical Christians groups turn to self-flagellation or mutilation as a method to increase their spirituality.

Buddhism doesn't have parades with women in chains, burning their skin and dripping hot wax on themselves. Nor does it have priests carry 100 lb of cactus on their raw backs or self flagellation with spiked ropes. Christianity does. I've seen it in person. Christians very much believe suffering is a part of life. Its continuously demonstrated throughout history Christian inspired texts, methods, and thought.

Since Mother Teresa is a Christian and a very devout one, its not surprising to see these beliefs.

This leads me to my original point that there is nothing really special about Mother Teresa. She is simply expressing conservative principles of her faith.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Suffering is a way to mimic Jesus, which is why so many radical Christians groups turn to self-flagellation or mutilation as a method to increase their spirituality.

Buddhism doesn't have parades with women in chains, burning their skin and dripping hot wax on themselves. Nor does it have priests carry 100 lb of cactus on their raw backs or self flagellation with spiked ropes. Christianity does.

Those would be the extreme end of the spectrum though . . .

Alliance
It might be extreme to you, but in some places this is normal and well supported.

Conservative yes, but then again, Christianity is a very conservative concept.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
It might be extreme to you, but in some places this is normal and well supported.

Conservative yes, but then again, Christianity is a very conservative concept.

Not always. You're generalizing from the most outspoken groups.

Alliance
Please show me when since the 400s CE Christianity has been the bastion of liberalism.

I'm not generalising. I did not say all Christians engage in self mutilation. Nor did I say they want to. I said some do and that those traditions are easly and strongly grounded in CHristian mythology.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Please show me when since the 400s CE Christianity has been the bastion of liberalism.

Bastion of liberalism? I never said that.

I'm just pointing out that there are Christians other than fundamentalist, evangelical, nutcases. PresbyterianChurchUSA is a good example.

Originally posted by Alliance
I'm not generalising. I did not say all Christians engage in self mutilation. Nor did I say they want to. I said some do and that those traditions are easly and strongly grounded in CHristian mythology.

You're declaring all Christians to be like people on the right, thats virtually the definition of generalising.

Some of those concepts are grounded in the bible but people interperet the bible in thier own ways.

Lord Urizen
I'm really upset...


I always looked at Mother Teresa as the closest thing to a Saint possible...how ignorant of me. She was twisted....dangerous even.

She allowed the suffering and deaths of thousands of innocent people to continue without Aid....

Alliance
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Bastion of liberalism? I never said that.

I'm just pointing out that there are Christians other than fundamentalist, evangelical, nutcases. PresbyterianChurchUSA is a good example.

I was raised in a more "liberal" church. However, I feel you are understimating both the vocal power and actual presence of reactionary Christians.

I said Christianity is very conservative. No church is really ahead on any social issues, nor has been.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're declaring all Christians to be like people on the right, thats virtually the definition of generalising.

I said no such thing, nor do I think that. Please point out where you wrongly interpreted this.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'm really upset...

I always looked at Mother Teresa as the closest thing to a Saint possible...how ignorant of me. She was twisted....dangerous even.

She allowed the suffering and deaths of thousands of innocent people to continue without Aid....

Umm...don't change your perception just because one person says something. A little research would be in order. Find out who she was for yourself.

Nellinator
Unnecessary suffering is not a part of the calling of Christ... just thought I'd clear that up.

Withholding painkillers from those that desire them seems cruel, Mother Teresa wasn't all bad, she did afford comfort to a lot of people it seems.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
Unnecessary suffering is not a part of the calling of Christ... just thought I'd clear that up.

Withholding painkillers from those that desire them seems cruel, Mother Teresa wasn't all bad, she did afford comfort to a lot of people it seems.

Though...as lil b pointed out...that's just what it seems, not what actually happened.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Alliance
No. Many Christians believe that suffering is a part of life and is good for them, for they suffer as Jesus did on the cross. (as your quote alluded to)

Suffering is a way to mimic Jesus, which is why so many radical Christians groups turn to self-flagellation or mutilation as a method to increase their spirituality.

Buddhism doesn't have parades with women in chains, burning their skin and dripping hot wax on themselves. Nor does it have priests carry 100 lb of cactus on their raw backs or self flagellation with spiked ropes. Christianity does. I've seen it in person. Christians very much believe suffering is a part of life. Its continuously demonstrated throughout history Christian inspired texts, methods, and thought.

Since Mother Teresa is a Christian and a very devout one, its not surprising to see these beliefs.

This leads me to my original point that there is nothing really special about Mother Teresa. She is simply expressing conservative principles of her faith.

You are generalising, because you are assuming that Christianity = Catholicism.
You are also generalising because you make no distinction between the Churches of the East and those of the West.


Furthermore, you are off-topic.

I did not ask WHY Mother Teresa did what she did.
I asked WHY is is seen saintly like, STILL in the face of evidence, by atheists and on-atheists alike.

So, take your christian bashing in some other thread where its relevant.

I don't care about Christ suffering and what Christians believe. Read my first post.
If you have something to say in regards to the topic, please do so, if not then don't take this thread in a direction it was not made for.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Nellinator
Unnecessary suffering is not a part of the calling of Christ... just thought I'd clear that up.

Withholding painkillers from those that desire them seems cruel, Mother Teresa wasn't all bad, she did afford comfort to a lot of people it seems.

There are numerous evidence which show us she was not great. She did not separate terminal from non terminal illnesses and had literally caused people to die, who didn't need to.

She also ''converted'' Hindus at their bedsite! That was unethical, to say at least, no?

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are numerous evidence which show us she was not great. She did not separate terminal from non terminal illnesses and had literally caused people to die, who didn't need to.

She also ''converted'' Hindus at their bedsite! That was unethical, to say at least, no?

Well, the second part is not really unethical for a Chrisitan.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, the second part is not really unethical for a Chrisitan.

I guess.

Waiting for people to be near death, when they don't know what they are saying, and some of them are too weak to resist, and she continues to baptise them.
Its creepy.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I guess.

Waiting for people to be near death, when they don't know what they are saying, and some of them are too weak to resist, and she continues to baptise them.
Its creepy.

Yeah, though she was convinced to be right, and basically to save their souls....and....if the Hindus were right, it would not matter anyways, so, kinda a win-win situation.

Lord Urizen
Do you think it's possible that Mother Teresa truly beleived she was doing "the right thing" rather than just intending to impose her religion upon others ?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you think it's possible that Mother Teresa truly beleived she was doing "the right thing" rather than just intending to impose her religion upon others ?

T-that's what I just said.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Bardock42
T-that's what I just said.


I know, I wasn't asking you. I was asking Lil B

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I know, I wasn't asking you. I was asking Lil B

Yeah, I think she agrees with that though, she just thinks that it is unethical regardless.

Alliance
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You are generalising, because you are assuming that Christianity = Catholicism.
You are also generalising because you make no distinction between the Churches of the East and those of the West.

Furthermore, you are off-topic.

I was unaware that any of those mattered as Mother Teresa was a Catholic. Furthermore, the idea of suffering is pervasive throughout western Christianity, not just Catholicism.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I did not ask WHY Mother Teresa did what she did.
I asked WHY is is seen saintly like, STILL in the face of evidence, by atheists and on-atheists alike.

If what she did is common practice or an extension of a common belief, why would people have a problem with it? People, when trying to glorify someone, look past their faults. If she's on the "fast track to sainthood," why would want to expound on the fact that she committed actions that some people find questionable?

The point is, if you're seeing someone up as a HOLY role model, they should be faultless, so you ignore evidences to the contrary, just like every church has done fairly consistently throughout history.

Additionally, rephrasing the question of "why" is extremely pertinent. If she generally believed she was helping people, then sure, we can say she was wrong, but she wasn't malicious as your quote makes her out to be. People's motivations for their actions are very much pertinent if one is attempting to evaluate the validity of those actions.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So, take your christian bashing in some other thread where its relevant.

I was unaware that "bashing" was relevant anywhere on these forums. I was also unaware that stating a relevant criticism politely and backing it up constitutes bashing.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I think she agrees with that though, she just thinks that it is unethical regardless.


It is unethical to force someone to endure pain when they ask for the pain to be taken away...I agree

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you think it's possible that Mother Teresa truly beleived she was doing "the right thing" rather than just intending to impose her religion upon others ?

Maybe I would be convinved of that, if she did not keep the stolen money asked to be returned, and if she did not seek the best medical care when she was ill.

If she truly was convinced of what she was doing, when she fell ill, she should have let Christ ''kiss her'' like other people.

As for conversions. She must have been convinced of saving those people, otherwise she wouldn't have been a Catholic, and all that stuff.

I just don't understand, overall, why people continue to see her saint like. Regardless of wether she believed in what she was doing, or not, it wasn't doing a favour to those people...Where did the money donated go? Not in her centres, thats for sure.

If Vatican says ''Mother Teresa is a saint'', then I can understand that on their level (although Vatican dirtied its hands many things in the history, but thats beside the point), but it is why some other people, who are not Christian, persist to accept this theory...its just strange.

WrathfulDwarf
Every human have their flaws. Mother Teresa is no exception. Heck! Even Ghandi had his flaws and people still revere him as a great man. I think we should acknowledge peoples contribution as well as their flaws. No one can be 100% all good. Even the great Catholic saints had their little wild times....believe it or not Saint Thomas Aquinas was one heck of a party dude back in his youth.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Every human have their flaws. Mother Teresa is no exception. Heck! Even Ghandi had his flaws and people still revere him as a great man. I think we should acknowledge peoples contribution as well as their flaws. No one can be 100% all good. Even the great Catholic saints had their little wild times....believe it or not Saint Thomas Aquinas was one heck of a party dude back in his youth.

Now that you mention Gandhi. I read a book in regards of some of the things said and done by Gandhi. He had flaws indeed. And some strange ideas.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Now that you mention Gandhi. I read a book in regards of some of the things said and done by Gandhi. He had flaws indeed. And some strange ideas.
Also, the Dalai Lama.


I love Penn and Teller

Soleran
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The common belief is that Mother Teresa worked with the sick and destitute to lovingly return them to health.

An examination of her missions will show that this is far from the case. Mother Teresa believed that there is spiritual value in suffering.

Once, when tending to a patient dying of cancer, she said "You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you." (!!!)
(Christoper Hitchens - The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice, p. 41).

For this reason she would not prescribe pain killers in her clinics, choosing instead to allow her patients to experience the suffering that she believed would bring them closer to Christ. Despite the tens of millions of dollars donated to her charity each year, her missions were rudimentary and offered no real health care. Her missions mainly catered to the critically ill and simply afforded them a place to go to die.
Intrestingly, when Mother Teresa became ill she would travel to the finest health care facilities to receive treatment.

Furthermore, her main object appears to have been spreading of the most extreme form of Catholicism, through help of Vatican, rather than saintly helping of the poor and sick.


So, why is it that a great majority of people still hold this saint-like view of Mother Teresa?
Does anyone here believe Mother Teresa was a 'humanitarian'? Or just a ruthless missionary?

Discuss.

She did more then most and less then some, regardless of the total outcome of her "help" she actually achieved a great deal, more then most people.

Plus no one forced the sick into her care for the most part so if people disagree with her methods it's true that people volunteered themselves for her care.

She has alot of achievments Happy Dance

Bardock42
Originally posted by Soleran
She did more then most and less then some, regardless of the total outcome of her "help" she actually achieved a great deal, more then most people.

Plus no one forced the sick into her care for the most part so if people disagree with her methods it's true that people volunteered themselves for her care.

She has alot of achievments Happy Dance

That is what is doubted though, it is clauned that she did more badthan good even. And she seems to not have used the means she got provided by people in a wa that it was intended.

Soleran
Originally posted by Bardock42
That is what is doubted though, it is clauned that she did more badthan good even. And she seems to not have used the means she got provided by people in a wa that it was intended.


Sure I understand that. Unless someone has hard facts on it then it's a discussion of gossip.

Storm
Her actions during the trial of Charles Keating, which resulted in a ten-year sentence for his fraud in the S&L debacle, are particularly illuminating. Mother Teresa wrote to the trial judge and appealed for leniency because Keating had donated a large sum to her projects. Oddly enough, it never occurred to her that the money really belonged to the people Keating swindled it from, and she never responded to a request from the judge that she return the stolen funds.

It has been alleged by former employees of Mother Teresa' s order that Mother Teresa and her followers accepted donations specifically earmarked for the sick and the poor, but that the funds were transferred to the Vatican Bank for other purposes, particularly evangelism. The Missionaries of Charity do not disclose either the sources of their funds, or details of how they are spent.

lil bitchiness

Lord Urizen
Evangelism is such a fluke....


You're telling me that money that could have went to feed the hungry, shelter the poor, and all that stuff went to promotion of Evangelism instead ?

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Evangelism is such a fluke....


You're telling me that money that could have went to feed the hungry, shelter the poor, and all that stuff went to promotion of Evangelism instead ?

Im gonna go step further, and say that it didn't even go to that, but to Mother Teresa's pocket.

But yeah...evangesomethingoranother is a fluke.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im gonna go step further, and say that it didn't even go to that, but to Mother Teresa's pocket.


laughing Does she even have pockets ?



Originally posted by lil bitchiness
But yeah...evangesomethingoranother is a fluke.


Oh, most certainly yes

lord xyz
I few months ago I said that Mother Therasa wasn't a good role model and I hated her and there is good reason to do so. Goddess Kali and others said that she was a great person and I was talking crap. I tried searching for my evidence, and now I've found it! Obviously there's more to the video but you get the general idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q1m-8npkJ4

AngryManatee
Christianity = Masochism?

lord xyz
Originally posted by AngryManatee
Christianity = Masochism? How dare you compare something so amazing to something so disgusting?

AngryManatee
lol

Devil King
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The common belief is that Mother Teresa worked with the sick and destitute to lovingly return them to health.

An examination of her missions will show that this is far from the case. Mother Teresa believed that there is spiritual value in suffering.

Once, when tending to a patient dying of cancer, she said "You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you." (!!!)
(Christoper Hitchens - The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice, p. 41).

For this reason she would not prescribe pain killers in her clinics, choosing instead to allow her patients to experience the suffering that she believed would bring them closer to Christ. Despite the tens of millions of dollars donated to her charity each year, her missions were rudimentary and offered no real health care. Her missions mainly catered to the critically ill and simply afforded them a place to go to die.
Intrestingly, when Mother Teresa became ill she would travel to the finest health care facilities to receive treatment.

Furthermore, her main object appears to have been spreading of the most extreme form of Catholicism, through help of Vatican, rather than saintly helping of the poor and sick.


So, why is it that a great majority of people still hold this saint-like view of Mother Teresa?
Does anyone here believe Mother Teresa was a 'humanitarian'? Or just a ruthless missionary?

Discuss.

You are 100% spot on with this. She was an avid supporter of corporal mortification, much like the founder of Opus Dei. In fact, you can look at a large majority of those so-called saints that suffered from stigmata and you find out they were also practicioners of corporal mortification.

However, she did feed the poor. That was a good thing. But it should never be forgotten that she used her facilities as bait to spread her version of christianity. She fed the hungry as long as they were open to christianity. And who would refuse food just because they couldn't pretend to listen? On top of that, who wouldn't be more open to the idea if they were being told the food came from Jesus?

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