NJO Luke V.S. DE Sidious

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Riverollv
The battlefield is a simple plain in Naboo. Who wins?

darthsith19
Luke wins comfortably.

Darth Subjekt
Yea, as good as Sidious is by this point, Luke is just simply better. It wouldn't be pwnage per se, but Luke wins with slightly less than moderate difficulty.

Riverollv
yeah, i thought so... its just im new here, so there are some things i still dunno about star wars (out of the 6 movies)

Darth_Glentract
I'm gonna disagree here. Luke wins, but it's one very close fight. Luke is significantly better in saber combat, but Sidious equals, if not beats him, in a force fight.

Darth Sexy
Um DE Sidious is close to Luke in force abilities but that's about it.

vader11
Ya...DE Sidious is still very powerful in the force...

Gideon
I have to interject. I was once one of the more prominent "NJO owns all!" supporters, but Glentract is right. Luke is only better by a noteworthy amount in lightsaber prowess, but even that wouldn't be ownage, given how fast Sidious is and Sidious's tactics. But Luke is no where near Sidious in Force mastery, and he won't own, pwn, or possibly not even win in an all out Force contest.

But I say he wins due to sabers. ^_^

Darth Sexy
Escape, this is NJO Luke. Luke at his peak, what do you mean he wouldn't win? His force mastery by NJO is unparalleled..

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, this is NJO Luke. Luke at his peak, what do you mean he wouldn't win? His force mastery by NJO is unparalleled..

You heard me correct. NJO Luke won't be owning Sidious in the Force department. Sidious's knowledge of the Force is still miles ahead of Luke's, as is his experience, and I've seen nothing that leads me to believe Luke's Force powers (even at that point) is a lot ahead of Sidious.

A pre-RotJ Sidious can slaughter Stormtroopers by the dozens; he utterly annihilated three Sith spinter acolytes with one hand (and reduced them to ash and bone). DE Sidious was an inch from death and still killed all of Luke's Jedi escort when they attempted to bring him into custody.

Nah. I know Luke's Force skills aren't miles ahead of Sidious's, and I'd hesitate to even call them equals.

But if Luke can keep this to a lightsaber duel, he'd win.

Utrigita
by NJO do you then means latest luke??? just have to be sure embarrasment

Gideon
Originally posted by Utrigita
by NJO do you then means latest luke??? just have to be sure embarrasment

NJO = New Jedi Order. The "latest" Luke is LotF Luke.

allfg
Luke could manipulate miniature black wholes, that's far beyond anything Sidious has done.

Gideon
Originally posted by allfg
Luke could manipulate miniature black wholes, that's far beyond anything Sidious has done.

Right. And according to you, a Force Storm won't be handy in a fight. So how would manipulating a blackhole?

Edit: Just so we're clear, if Luke can "manipulate a black hole" in a fight, Sidious can launch a Force Storm. If that's the case, then they'll just kill each other.

allfg
That's because manipulating a black whole is testament to Luke's strength and mastery of the force. The same can't be said about the Force Storm for Sidious, given it's ritualistic nature (I'm not talking about how long it takes to prepare, but the nature of how it is set up. I can go into more detail, but I'm pretty sure I've already done so in the past), and the fact that it speaks more for willpower and depth of anger than it does for force strength or mastery. If Luke applied that level of TK into a push, he's probably break Sidious like a twig. Also, from what I've heard, when Luke pulled off said feat, he wasn't even using his full power, so if that's true. than he's probably even more powerful.

vader11
He seems like a god...><

Darth Sexy
I agree with Escape that Sidious has more attacks under his sleeve, in fact he probably has the most offensive weapons out of any character in SW, but Luke at his peak is also almost twice as powerful as Sidious. What I mean by this is that his raw power exceeds Sidious' and he'd be able to more than hold his own against Sidious. I'm curious as to what would happen if Luke uses emerald lightning.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Gideon
Right. And according to you, a Force Storm won't be handy in a fight. So how would manipulating a blackhole?

Edit: Just so we're clear, if Luke can "manipulate a black hole" in a fight, Sidious can launch a Force Storm. If that's the case, then they'll just kill each other.

Even though he uses the force storm it wouldn't do him any good considering how Luke already turned it against him once (not sure was leia helping ore not)

vader11
Would Anakin be even more powerful than both of them if he didn't injured & in his FP?

Gideon
Originally posted by allfg
That's because manipulating a black whole is testament to Luke's strength and mastery of the force. The same can't be said about the Force Storm for Sidious, given it's ritualistic nature (I'm not talking about how long it takes to prepare, but the nature of how it is set up. I can go into more detail, but I'm pretty sure I've already done so in the past), and the fact that it speaks more for willpower and depth of anger than it does for force strength or mastery. If Luke applied that level of TK into a push, he's probably break Sidious like a twig. Also, from what I've heard, when Luke pulled off said feat, he wasn't even using his full power, so if that's true. than he's probably even more powerful.

The Force Storm is not ritualistic in nature, Nebaris. It doesn't take six zillion minutes to prepare, and Sidious doesn't sacrifice a goat to create one nor does he light a bunch of candles and start singing a Gregorian chant. Sidious's Force Storm speaks of the level of destruction that he can create; regardless if it is based on sheer power, it is the most devastatingly powerful Force assault we've seen.

Luke has not been shown distributing such power on another Force user, and while I'm not doubting his power rivals Sidious's, Sidious's techniques, experience, and offensive lexicon outmatches Luke's own.

It's more plausible that Sidious will launch a Force Storm at Luke and get away with it than Luke using a blackhole.



NJO Luke is not Luke at his peak, so that statistic doesn't apply. Luke can win either way, but he will not own Sidious in the Force.

Gideon
Originally posted by Utrigita
Even though he uses the force storm it wouldn't do him any good considering how Luke already turned it against him once (not sure was leia helping ore not)

I'd recommend reading Dark Empire. Anakin and Leia combined their strength with Luke to resist Sidious's Force Storm.

Edit: In fact, they didn't even do that. They cut Sidious off from his Force Storm, preventing him from controlling it, but they couldn't stop the thing itself and barely made it off the ship alive.

Darth Sexy
When I say NJO Luke I mean Luke in TUF. What about the emerald lightning, what about him rooting himself in the heart of the force so that not even a black hole could move him. I have a hard time believing that if a black hole can't move him, somehow a force storm can..

LORDSIDIOUS01
As good as DE Sidious is, NJO Luke is fair more powerful. NJO Luke is now a Grandmaster. It might be a close fight to some extent but NJO Luke wins.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Gideon
The Force Storm is not ritualistic in nature, Nebaris. It doesn't take six zillion minutes to prepare, and Sidious doesn't sacrifice a goat to create one nor does he light a bunch of candles and start singing a Gregorian chant. Sidious's Force Storm speaks of the level of destruction that he can create; regardless if it is based on sheer power, it is the most devastatingly powerful Force assault we've seen.

Luke has not been shown distributing such power on another Force user, and while I'm not doubting his power rivals Sidious's, Sidious's techniques, experience, and offensive lexicon outmatches Luke's own.

It's more plausible that Sidious will launch a Force Storm at Luke and get away with it than Luke using a blackhole.



NJO Luke is not Luke at his peak, so that statistic doesn't apply. Luke can win either way, but he will not own Sidious in the Force.

Then why did he lost control of it hmm because it powers was beyond his own to control, today luke has a much better understanding of the force, I cannot see the problem in him disrupting it again like he did the last time it was used.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Gideon
I'd recommend reading Dark Empire. Anakin and Leia combined their strength with Luke to resist Sidious's Force Storm.

Edit: In fact, they didn't even do that. They cut Sidious off from his Force Storm, preventing him from controlling it, but they couldn't stop the thing itself and barely made it off the ship alive.

Have tried getting it but in my country Star Wars books and Comics isn't in high value is must use online places embarrasment and learn along the way big grin

allfg
Here's the explanation given in the Book of Anger:

The Book Of Anger

"Emperor Palpatine's first volume deals with the use of emotion to control the Force. He considers anger to be the most potent emotional form. With anger, the Sith can call upon the dark side, harnessing it for great power and destruction. Palpatine teaches that anger and rage, mixed with intelligent control, call upon the dark side with a very fine level of control, and can even kill from a great distance.

An excerpt, on the creation of Force Storms:

I have learned that Anger and Will, joined together, are the greatest power.

I have learned to meditate upon Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of dark side power.

Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal through which vast energies are released -- the energies of the dark side of the Force.

Standing watch with the mind, in my meditation of Anger, I have slain my enemies from great distances, through the dark side power that permeates the galaxy. I have created lightning, and unleashed its destructive fire.

Using this knowledge, I can unleash the dark side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms."

Seems pretty ritualistic to me.



It speaks for his willpower and the depth of his anger. That's it. Read above.



The sith ritual that Bane was performing was more powerful, I'd say, though he did require the power of about 20 other sith lords. I'd also say that Nihilus draining an entire race of force sensitives as well as about 100 jedi is a more powerful display. And that's just destructive power, in terms of general power, I'd also say there are a few others, such as the Black Whole feat produced by Luke and Kyp.



Wow, Sidious has a greater knowledge of force techniques, so what? Since when does having more make any difference whatsoever, when you have as much as Luke already has?



Either scenario would never happen, but if you're trying to act as if I was saying that Luke will just use a black whole against Sidious, then you need to go over and read through what I said again; all I'm saying is that Luke achieving such a feat is great testament to his strength with the force, and can be applied through other means (force push for instance). The same can't be said about the force storm.

Riverollv
hey.. if Obi wan hadnt injured Anakin in ROTS, Anakin would be equal in Force power and ligthsaber mastery to Luke or would he even be more powerful?

Darth Subjekt
far more powerful, although we dont know by how much.

Riverollv
yeah, i supposed so

Darth Subjekt
Its been said before that had Anakin reached his FP, he would be at the top of the food chain by a definite margin.

jollyjim311
Didn't Lucas confirm that their potential was equal.

Advent
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Didn't Lucas confirm that their potential was equal.

No, he did nothing of the sort. A few users on this forum either: a) twisted the quote to benefit their arguments, or b) misinterpreted the quote. This discussion has been covered numerous times. I'm sure you could do a search on Google (KMC search engine is horrific to me), and find one of the many debates.

Riverollv
then, if it hasnt, is it believed Anakin FP is stronger than any other SW being?

overlord
Anakin is near Sidious at least, as you can see him killing someone from great distance LOL.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Riverollv
then, if it hasnt, is it believed Anakin FP is stronger than any other SW being?
Anakin's midichlorian count was highest ever recorded. Even higher then that of Master Yoda.

Although it is said that "son could become what father could not", after Vader got crippled. So it is not clear.

Count Makashi
Yes, after he got crippled(Vader), he lost huge connection to the Force, so that doesn't count.

Gideon
It's amazing how only the last paragraph pertains to the Force Storm, Nebaris. "Using this knowledge", he can unleash dark side energies that are all around us. That isn't ritualistic. That means he achieved it through his constant experiments involving unleashing Force lightning and killing people across great distances".

Sorry. This is a non-ritualistic Force power. You need to accept that.



No. If that were just the case, Sion would be a beast. But he's not. Simply because power isn't stated to be a prerequisite doesn't mean that it isn't. I suppose it doesn't require "power" to perform Force lightning or a Force push? I suppose it doesn't require "power" to move a planet or whatever? I guess by your logic it isn't, since "power" isn't stated to be a requirement. I guess Han can move planets and create Force Storms, too?

Guess again.



Bane required more people. Sidious did it by himself. Nihilus draining an entire race of Force sensitives is indeed impressive, but Sidious was capable of draining people as well - and had a much greater control over it than Nihilus. And Sidious needed to do it to sustain his health due to the intensity of his personal power. And manipulating a black hole isn't an attack in itself. Sidious's Force Storm is the most potent and devastating Force "attack" we've seen.



Luke, actually, doesn't have as much as a few people. Sidious? Nah. Even now? He's not touching it. Don't even get me started on someone like Yoda. Or even Kun. Or Revan. His personal power and raw power exceeds them all, but his knowledge? While it is considerable, I wouldn't place it on par with someone like that.

As for knowledge, it is useful, like experience. Not a guarenteed victory, but in most cases? A steep advantage.



I hardly think he'll need it. Why, isn't your claim to fame about Kas'im that he shielded himself from Bane's (who is a powerful Sith Lord) assault which was capable of leveling a temple? Sidious is miles and miles and miles ahead of Kas'im in power and knowledge. If Kas'im can survive that without damage, I don't see why Sidious couldn't survive a similar assault.

LORDSIDIOUS01
1...2...3.... Lets all say it NJO LUKE NJO LUKE NJO LUKE.

Gideon
Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
1...2...3.... Lets all say it NJO LUKE NJO LUKE NJO LUKE.

If this is him in TUF, he can win without dying of exhaustion if he keeps this to lightsabers. But he will not come close to owning Sidious in the Force. If he wins, it'll be by the skin of his teeth.

Utrigita
What is it that DE sidious has done that makes him so more powerful then luke in the force, just interestet, creating a force storm apart from that then what???

Kadesh
Sidious mastered every aspect of the force thats why

allfg
No he didn't.

Kadesh
yes he did

allfg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433396

Originally posted by Kadesh
too bad the one about sidious got closed, It is true the DESB said "it is believed", I dont know why lightsnake keeps pointing out he mastered everything and i seem to follow

Remember that^? That's the situation here.

Kadesh
Originally posted by allfg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433396



Remember that^? That's the situation here. Exactly, and i was in denail that sidious mastered everything at that time till i accepted the fact that he did,

Novels indicated that he has been studying ancient sith holocrons and according to FOC, he has an entire museum of sith holocrons which he studied and those holocrons date back to as far as the ancient sith

FOC backs up of what DESB said

allfg
1. It's never said that he mastered every aspect of the force.

2. Mastering the Darkside and Sith Magic =/ Mastering Every Aspect of the Force.

3. While my post PT knowledge is pretty lacking, I'm pretty sure that Palpatine didn't ever master the White Current.

Kadesh
Originally posted by allfg
1. It's never said that he mastered every aspect of the force.

2. Mastering the Darkside and Sith Magic =/ Mastering Every Aspect of the Force.

3. While my post PT knowledge is pretty lacking, I'm pretty sure that Palpatine didn't ever master the White Current.

1. Hee mastered alot of techniques including nihilus force drain and alot of ancient sith techniques according to FOC and several novels which indicates that for the past 19 years between ROTS and ANH, he has been studying the aspects of the force going to every part of the galaxy so what DESB said is highly considered

3. Idiot the white current is also known as the force, its what the fallanasi called it damfool. And if you are talking about the fallanasi technique, sidious knows it because one of them joined him and since he is on a quest to master the aspects of the force, he made the fallanasi teach him what they knew

Riverollv
Sidios did not master every aspect of the force. If he had, he would be the most powerful SW being ever, and hes not

Kadesh
Originally posted by Riverollv
Sidios did not master every aspect of the force. If he had, he would be the most powerful SW being ever, and hes not He mastered more tecnhniques than luke and yet luke > him because lukes raw power > that of sidious. As gideon pointed out luke would lose in a force fight because luke doesnt have enough offensive powers other than emerald lightning

Riverollv
exactly, but its every aspect of the force were talkin about. if Sidious wouldve mastered EVERY ASPECT OF THE FORCE we would beat Luke by FAR and any other character in SW

Riverollv
easily

Kadesh
Originally posted by Riverollv
exactly, but its every aspect of the force were talkin about. if Sidious wouldve mastered EVERY ASPECT OF THE FORCE we would beat Luke by FAR and any other character in SW gideon already said that luke would very well lose to sidious in a force fight...

Riverollv
yes, yes, i know that already, all im saying is that if sidious would dominate every aspect of the force he would beat Luke far easier

kamikz
No, Sidious DID master all the jedi's light side techniques, he stole all the holocrons and all jedi knowledge in the jedi temple, studying it after the jedi were gone.


And since when have we come to it that Sidious would win in a force fight?

Darth Sexy
As escape said, Sidious has vastly more knowledge than Luke or any other force user in the SW Galaxy. Luke has more raw and force abilities than Sidious and would possibly be able to defend himself against Sidious' force storm by rooting himself into the heart of the force as he did in the NJO novels. However, Sidious DOES have more weapons in his arsenal while Luke has emerald lightning.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As escape said, Sidious has vastly more knowledge than Luke or any other force user in the SW Galaxy. Luke has more raw and force abilities than Sidious and would possibly be able to defend himself against Sidious' force storm by rooting himself into the heart of the force as he did in the NJO novels. However, Sidious DOES have more weapons in his arsenal while Luke has emerald lightning.

Bingo.

I understand that Luke's raw power is much more potent than Sidious's own, but Sidious is the more experienced fighter and the one with more knowledge and mastery of the Force. He is also capable of producing the most destructive Force power we've seen, without aid or assistance from other people or artifacts. Luke could most definately defeat the Emperor in a lightsaber duel - if this is him in TUF, which, again, is sort of unfair considering how he "placed himself in the heart of the Force" as Darth Sexy elaborated on.

But the Force fight? I hardly think it'll be a slaughter, if Luke can even win. Even when he is "in the heart of the Force", he is not invincible or invulnerable, and fatigue can still set in. It just basically means he's on steroids, and it is likely that given the boost of power, it leaves him drained and evaporates quickly.

The bottom line: I don't dispute that Luke has this in a lightsaber fight . However, even in his "uber-mode", I don't see him owning Sidious in the Force. I can very much see him dying.

Darth Sexy
My point about Luke rooting himself into the heart of the force is that is a valid counter attack to Sidious' potent force storm.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
My point about Luke rooting himself into the heart of the force is that is a valid counter attack to Sidious' potent force storm.

No, it isn't. You don't know that. Luke wasn't invincible even then - and Sidious's Force Storms can obliterate anything it comes across, be it Force users or entire fleets. There is no reason to believe that he would be immune to a Force Storm without proper deduction or any hints within the text.

If it said: "Luke was all but invincible to Force attacks in this mode", then I'd believe it. If it doesn't, all you have is a theory.

Riverollv
Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo.

I understand that Luke's raw power is much more potent than Sidious's own, but Sidious is the more experienced fighter and the one with more knowledge and mastery of the Force. He is also capable of producing the most destructive Force power we've seen, without aid or assistance from other people or artifacts. Luke could most definately defeat the Emperor in a lightsaber duel - if this is him in TUF, which, again, is sort of unfair considering how he "placed himself in the heart of the Force" as Darth Sexy elaborated on.

But the Force fight? I hardly think it'll be a slaughter, if Luke can even win. Even when he is "in the heart of the Force", he is not invincible or invulnerable, and fatigue can still set in. It just basically means he's on steroids, and it is likely that given the boost of power, it leaves him drained and evaporates quickly.

The bottom line: I don't dispute that Luke has this in a lightsaber fight . However, even in his "uber-mode", I don't see him owning Sidious in the Force. I can very much see him dying.


thats exactly my point. Sidious would most likely kill Luke in a Force fight, but... Sidious doesnt dominate "every aspect of the Force"... does he?

Darth Sexy
It's a logical theory escape. If the quote states that even a black hole(which if we've studied physics, we could derive to be more powerful than a force storm) couldn't move him, what makes you think a force storm could?

allfg
Well it was said that not even a black whole could move Luke in that state, so I really don't see what a Force Storm is going to do to him.

Riverollv
well, theyre 2 different kinds of powers. a black hole does not have anything to do with a force storm. a force storm doesnt affect him in the same way as a black hole. A black hole pulls Luke into it, a force storm electrifies him. what does this have to do with "moving him" ?

kamikz
No, a force storm pulls him into it, it is not the same thing as in KOTOR!

allfg
Well it kinda does both, but yeah.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It's a logical theory escape. If the quote states that even a black hole(which if we've studied physics, we could derive to be more powerful than a force storm) couldn't move him, what makes you think a force storm could?

Don't turn into Glentract, Darth Sexy. We can quantify the power of a black hole, but I don't think we can do so for a Force Storm. Glentract might be able to quantify the bare minimum power that a Force Storm has (destroying a fleet) but considering how it did such a thing effortlessly, it is impossible to compare a Force Storm's apex to a black hole.

And such a thing could be considered hyperbole, considering how if that were true, Luke would have been invincible. But we know that he wasn't, Shimrra nearly killed him and he was exhausted. Such a power is phenomenal, but it doesn't last long and it greatly tires the user.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
Don't turn into Glentract, Darth Sexy. We can quantify the power of a black hole, but I don't think we can do so for a Force Storm. Glentract might be able to quantify the bare minimum power that a Force Storm has (destroying a fleet) but considering how it did such a thing effortlessly, it is impossible to compare a Force Storm's apex to a black hole.

And such a thing could be considered hyperbole, considering how if that were true, Luke would have been invincible. But we know that he wasn't, Shimrra nearly killed him and he was exhausted. Such a power is phenomenal, but it doesn't last long and it greatly tires the user.

You're right it doesn't last forever, however I'm not turning into Glentract. A force storm from what we have seen, wipes out fleets. A black hole can wipe out an entire planet, if not an entire system. From a physics standpoint, as powerful as a force storm is, I don't think it pales in comparison to a black hole. My point is Luke has some credibility here when discussing possible ways to block the force storm.

kamikz
Well when Sidious is loading for a force storm, doesn't that leave him open for any attacks by Luke?
Also, if Sidious does one on a scale that took out fleets, he should die himself seeing as if it'll drag a neraby Luke into it, it will effect him as well....

Utrigita
Isn't there a famous little sentence in the Star Wars Universe

"Vader! is the dark side stronger?" "no no but tempting"

Movie is consideret the highest form of canon correct (apart from the word of Lucas)

kamikz
Except that is a wrong quote (stick out tongue) and that is Yoda (a fallible sw character, who did not want Luke to dispair or follow the dark) who talked, not GL himself....

Advent
A small post before I go out for the night, but Utrigita, are you trying to say that the lines Yoda spoke are accurate enough to base a conclusion that the light side is stronger, or that they're equal in terms of power? If so, you're totally wrong.

Yoda's words are cryptic, one could just be assuming that he's claiming that the Dark side isn't more powerful due to the fact you will eventually fall (as that's your "destiny" as a dark sider), and that's all. Indeed, that's probably the only logical assumption to make, otherwise Yoda was lying to Luke, seeing as the highest form of canon, George Lucas, has stated the following:

Originally posted by George Lucas on AotC DVD Commentary
"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

As you can see clearly, the dark side is more powerful; so, the quote made by Yoda holds no value.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Advent
A small post before I go out for the night, but Utrigita, are you trying to say that the lines Yoda spoke are accurate enough to base a conclusion that the light side is stronger, or that they're equal in terms of power? If so, you're totally wrong.

Yoda's words are cryptic, one could just be assuming that he's claiming that the Dark side isn't more powerful due to the fact you will eventually fall (as that's your "destiny" as a dark sider), and that's all. Indeed, that's probably the only logical assumption to make, otherwise Yoda was lying to Luke, seeing as the highest form of canon, George Lucas, has stated the following:



As you can see clearly, the dark side is more powerful; so, the quote made by Yoda holds no value.

And yes that I was I am saying. Yoda is a near 900 years old Jedimaster how in his time has battled multiply dark side users and in reality only lost one of those fights, and that wasn't even because of him not being able to do defeat sidious if order 66 hasn't been executed before he encounteret Sidious.

I can see that but I also asked what was the highest form of canon since I was stopped between Lucas and the film.

Yes the dark side is stronger in some sense but the Light will always be victorious and you will only attain great power if you have a great desire for using that power "But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed"
So actually only in some sense is the dark side stronger then the light.

(funny how the Dark side that is the strongest actually always get there asses kicked by a much lesser force big grin )

Funny that a female should be on Star Wars only thought it was male that was that kind of geeks wink

kamikz
Did you just argue against George Lucas? LOL!

Gideon
Originally posted by kamikz
Well when Sidious is loading for a force storm, doesn't that leave him open for any attacks by Luke?
Also, if Sidious does one on a scale that took out fleets, he should die himself seeing as if it'll drag a neraby Luke into it, it will effect him as well....

Sidious loading for a Force Storm hasn't been shown to take a massive amount of time. The longest we've seen him take is when he monologued to Luke and Leia after his hand was amputated, and even then, we don't know if that was necessary to build up the energy, and I believe that Force Storm was one of the largest he'd created. So I don't think it'll be enough time for Luke to kill him.

And, lastly, Kamikz, let's be realistic. If Sidious knows he's going to die, wouldn't that be something he would do? If he knows he's going to lose, he strikes me as the kind've person that would take anyone he could with him - out of spite.

Like I said. Luke will not be owning Sidious at all.

Advent
Originally posted by Utrigita
And yes that I was I am saying.
Originally posted by Advent
If so, you're totally wrong.

Yoda's age is entirely irrelevant, as well his experience, as he would say, "matters not". If you contained the slightest bit of intelligence, you'd see that. Yoda is an in-universe source, meaning he's subject to being fallible, and he's not omniscient (thus why his age, and experience don't count for jack shit in this matter).

In terms of power - the dark side is more powerful, and seeing as George Lucas, who is infallible when it comes to Star Wars, and cannot be argued with, at all (when it comes to outright stated things, with no wiggle room), has stated my perspective in direct terms, Yoda was wrong, and you are, too.

Even if you want to consider the movies, and Lucas on the same canonic level, you are still incorrect. Why? Because, as I mentioned, Yoda's word is subjective, and George Lucas' word is not; it's gospel.

And no, there's no way to get around the fact that in terms of power, the dark side is stronger. So, stop while you're behind, because you were trying to prove the opposite (or that they're equal in strength), and failed utterly.

Like I said, the light side is only "better" in the way that you won't "ultimately fall" as you're destined to do on the dark path. In strength? It's weaker. The reason I'm repeating myself is to get the point through your thick, and minuscule skull. Oh, and I find it comedic how a ten year old child is attempting to argue with me, and George Lucas, as I'm sure everyone else does. As well, "geek"? Please, son.

kamikz
Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious loading for a Force Storm hasn't been shown to take a massive amount of time. The longest we've seen him take is when he monologued to Luke and Leia after his hand was amputated, and even then, we don't know if that was necessary to build up the energy, and I believe that Force Storm was one of the largest he'd created. So I don't think it'll be enough time for Luke to kill him.

And, lastly, Kamikz, let's be realistic. If Sidious knows he's going to die, wouldn't that be something he would do? If he knows he's going to lose, he strikes me as the kind've person that would take anyone he could with him - out of spite.

Like I said. Luke will not be owning Sidious at all.


Didn't we say about 5 seconds? Anyway, even that is enough. If Sidious is gonna focus on that, he will be open for any attack that Luke can pull.

Yeah, I never argued that Sidious wouldn't do it, I just stated that he would die as well, so it wouldn't be really necessary for him to pull one of the largest unless he was going to die as well, and even then, I don't know if he can get the largest one without Luke interrupting him...

The biggest advantage Luke has is that he actually knows what Sidious can pull off, there is no way in hell he is gonna let him create a force storm.

Nope, Luke won't own...

Utrigita
Originally posted by kamikz
Did you just argue against George Lucas? LOL!

No I didn't argue against GL I analysed his words something that everyone on this forum should learn.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Advent
Yoda's age is entirely irrelevant, as well his experience, as he would say, "matters not". If you contained the slightest bit of intelligence, you'd see that. Yoda is an in-universe source, meaning he's subject to being fallible, and he's not omniscient (thus why his age, and experience don't count for jack shit in this matter).

In terms of power - the dark side is more powerful, and seeing as George Lucas, who is infallible when it comes to Star Wars, and cannot be argued with, at all (when it comes to outright stated things, with no wiggle room), has stated my perspective in direct terms, Yoda was wrong, and you are, too.

Even if you want to consider the movies, and Lucas on the same canonic level, you are still incorrect. Why? Because, as I mentioned, Yoda's word is subjective, and George Lucas' word is not; it's gospel.

And no, there's no way to get around the fact that in terms of power, the dark side is stronger. So, stop while you're behind, because you were trying to prove the opposite (or that they're equal in strength), and failed utterly.

Like I said, the light side is only "better" in the way that you won't "ultimately fall" as you're destined to do on the dark path. In strength? It's weaker. The reason I'm repeating myself is to get the point through your thick, and minuscule skull. Oh, and I find it comedic how a ten year old child is attempting to argue with me, and George Lucas, as I'm sure everyone else does. As well, "geek"? Please, son.

OH yes lets call a 900 years old jedi master that have battled numorous dark side users and only lost to one lets call his statement irrelavant great idea thumb up

Sorry you didn't get a word of what I was saying none apparently did, I was analysing his words yes the Dark side is Stronger sure, can the light side destroy a planet, great a force storm and so on NO it cannot in that way it is the most powerful for causing destruction mayham suffering and so on but you will always "fall" (die) from using its terrible powers Lucas own Words, in that way light side>dark Side that is what Lucas says read you own post and use you eyes to actually read what Lucas says.

My thick skull the things I just posted

:Yes the dark side is stronger in some sense but the Light will always be victorious and you will only attain great power if you have a great desire for using that power "But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed"
So actually only in some sense is the dark side stronger then the light.:

Hmm I wonbder what you get of that start using you own damm low IQ and read THE DARK SIDE IS STRONGER IN SOME SENSE (YOU WILL DIE) THAT ISN'T SO DAMM GREAT. The soul transfer that Sidious uses isn't even his own thats a jedimasters.

Now you begin using you little brainless skull to actually read my meaning instead off just posting some shit that cannot be used for anything.

kamikz
For crying out loud, use periods.


We are arguing that the dark side is stronger in battle, and it is. The light side is good in it's own way, but in a fight the dark is better. You weren't arguing this I hope!

Utrigita
Originally posted by kamikz
For crying out loud, use periods.


We are arguing that the dark side is stronger in battle, and it is. The light side is good in it's own way, but in a fight the dark is better. You weren't arguing this I hope!

Sorry hates gramma and isn't even English.

No but I was doing a analyse on the words by George Lucas, which himself said that only in some sense is the dark side stronger agree 100% on the dark side being best for destruction and so on. I was mearly discussing with advent weather ore not the dark side is when everything is concluded the strongest (the strongest philosophy) but none seems to get that and think that I am arguing for the light side being more destructive then the dark side.

for satan da er der ingen på det her forum der ikke er snævert synede

kamikz
Ok, well I don't think that the dark side is stronger on every single point, just in a fight, so yeah!

Utrigita
Originally posted by kamikz
Ok, well I don't think that the dark side is stronger on every single point, just in a fight, so yeah!

thanks my point was the overall it wasn't my mening to make the impression that I thought the light side is stronger in offensiv methods.

Advent
Before I even begin to dismantle what might pass for an "argument" (termed loosely) in your world, I'd like to point out that you did exactly say that you meant to prove that the light side was either equal, or stronger than the dark side in strength. Let me show you.

I posed a straightforward question to you about what you meant when you posted the lines from ESB, here's exactly what I asked (not quoted for easier reading), and what you responded with:

Advent: Are you trying to say that the lines Yoda spoke are accurate enough to base a conclusion that the light side is stronger, or that they're equal in terms of power?
Utrigita: And yes that I was I am saying.

Now, you later contradict your words by claiming that "that's not what meant (by your initial post)". See the problem? It's not that anyone misunderstood you, it's that you are simply an idiot. I argued against what you stated, I didn't misinterpret it. So, I'd advise you to go back to the sandlot, junior.

Originally posted by Utrigita
OH yes lets call a 900 years old jedi master that have battled numorous dark side users and only lost to one lets call his statement irrelavant great idea. I am an idiot.

As par expected, the point completely flew over your head. What relevance does Yoda's age, and experience have in terms of opposing George Lucas' word? It has absolutely none. So, yes, it was a great idea, seeing as Yoda isn't real, and isn't all-knowing, whereas in terms of Star Wars, George Lucas is.



Okay, so I didn't get a thing you said, yet I stated the exact same thing that you explained below in one sentence? Makes sense:

Originally posted by Advent
Like I said, the light side is only "better" in the way that you won't "ultimately fall" as you're destined to do on the dark path. In strength? It's weaker.

Looks like you're the one who doesn't possess basic comprehension skills. And, your original point, however, was what I was responding to, as your implication was that the light side is more powerful in terms of strength.



As well, to add to what I stated above, I said the exact same thing when deciphering Yoda's seemingly ambiguous words:

Originally posted by Advent
Yoda's words are cryptic, one could just be assuming that he's claiming that the Dark side isn't more powerful due to the fact you will eventually fall (as that's your "destiny" as a dark sider), and that's all.



Again, you prove your idiocy by your inability to even formulate proper sentences. thumb up Funny you would even think to mention me as having a "low I.Q.". Dumbass.



Yes, I've said as much, dolt, but Luke asked a direct question: "Is the dark side stronger?" Yoda responded by saying "No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive", and he was wrong, point blank, because "power" in this context wasn't up for interpretation ("A Jedi's strength flows from the Force..."wink. George Lucas trumps him.



Thanks for the repost, pal. I'm pretty sure I disregarded the comment before due to the fact you make no sense. You can become a wielder of "great power" by using either side of the Force, however, to become the most powerful you can possibly be, you turn to the dark side.



1. I have a "damm low IQ", but you cannot even properly spell simple words, such as "wonder", "damn", and you have horrid grammar? Are you sure you're not a stand up comedian?

2. See above; already addressed.

3. You're an idiot.



Firstly, what the **** are you talking about? Secondly, how is that relevant to what we're discussing whatsoever?



Ditto #3, you're an idiot.

Utrigita

allfg
laughing
I love this guy, he talks like a gangstar.

Utrigita
I am wink

allfg
wink wink

Utrigita
No it is when I get pissed off, I cannot think straight and cannot write probably, feelings get involved which isn't a good way to perform a debate. sad sorry for the gramma stick out tongue

Advent
Oh my Buddha, I'm not even going to bother responded to that pile of trash in a normal fashion.

If you knew how Star Wars, debating, and inquiring worked, you'd see how you're completely wrong. I asked if you believe the light side to be stronger based on the dialogue in ESB. When it comes down to determining that, you cannot merely disregard all the other aspects. To point out a few, you'd have to take into consideration the fact that Yoda's not omniscient, and thus fallible. You cannot base a conclusion on words by a character when trying to determine something absolute like that.

For a real world example, let's say we're listening to a baseball game on the radio. Commentator A claims "Wow, Player X is the best in the league currently!", does it have to be true simply because he said it? Absolutely not. We'd have to take into account the facts, like statistics, and whatnot, to see if it really is correct.

Obviously, that simple concept eluded your feeble mind. The same concept applies here, you cannot just toss aside everything else when you need to come to a verdict (unless the statement comes from an all-knowing subject). If that was the case, there would be no need for trials in criminal cases, simply because a victim reports a crime, it must be true.

Now, to get back on point, I expanded on exactly why Yoda's words are wrong using Lucas' quote, ergo my question needed to be looked upon further, something of which you apparently couldn't comprehend.

So, you fail. Utterly. Yet again.

Edit:

Originally posted by Utrigita
Oh sorry completly forgotten to responde to the soul transfer, a sith cannot devolop this technique to expand his life but a jedi can.

There's no such thing as "soul transfer". That term hasn't even been brought up in Star Wars to my knowledge (and that's a plethora of it). The closest thing that could even fit the description of transferring your soul (into what?) was Palpatine using his clone bodies. If it was a Jedi technique, prove up. Which you cannot do, because it's not.

Now, if by "soul transfer", you mean become a Force spirit, or Force ghost. Then, you're still wrong. Dark Lord of the Sith, Marka Ragnos, becomes a spirit:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5559/ragnosbn5.th.png

Self-proclaimed Dark Lord of the Sith, Freedon Nadd, becomes a spirit:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3566/omminnaddvq9.th.png

Other notable examples include: Exar Kun, Ajunta Pall, Darth Nihilus, Darth Bane, Darth Adeduu. And, that's why you're a dumbass. Try again, little man.

Darth Sexy
http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/owned/justin.jpg

S_W_LeGenD
Utrigita

Dark Side of the Force is stronger because it provides greater sense of freedom to a Jedi. A Jedi can progress more freely and quickly as a Dark Sider. Though this comes at a cost on Jedi's good-will.

The Dark Side focuses on Passion of a Jedi. A line in Sith Code exists and it is "Through Passion, I gain Strength". Passion refers to strong emotions. By envoking such emotions, a Jedi gets fueled by feeling of power and freedom.

Remember that sense of power is what gives you inspiration to achieve extra-ordinary deeds. Darth Revan once said "You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation".

The Sith Philosophy also relies on this concept because it encourages that only the strongest must rule. In this manner, the Sith remain strong and weakness gets eliminated among them. Though this can often lead to errors or mistakes because often exposure to dangerous situation is considered as a sign of weakness.

Although Yoda said that Fear is a path to Dark Side. But remember that it is the Jedi who fears the Dark Side itself. The Sith believe that Jedi are afraid to embrace there true strengths that comes from the Dark Side. A Jedi understands his true strength when he is free to judge his actions and is no longer restricted and is inspired by sense of power.

Thus these lines exist in Sith Code:

- Through power, I gain victory.
- Through victory, my chains are broken.

The chains refer to imposed restrictions on Jedi through Jedi philososphy.

Darth Sidious once said "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural".

This means that since Dark Side provides you with greater sense of freedom, then this gives you more space for enhancing your skills through experiments and training. Many offensive Force abilities are Dark Sided in nature. Offensive Force powers give you sense of Dominance and thus Sith rely on such capabilities to dominate their adversaries.

An example is Force Lightning. It is a very effective Dark Side technique and is fatal to living bodies. Darth Sidious and Darth Malak were both master practitioners of Force Lightning and used it on various occassions to crush opponents.

Additionally many abilities and techniques can be created by Sith. Dark Side is a path that allows endless progress and imposes no restrictions. An art called "Sith Alchemy" also fits in this case.

Light Side is weaker because it is about controlling your emotions and this restricts your sense of freedom and power.

I think that this explanation will be easier for you to understand.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Advent
Oh my Buddha, I'm not even going to bother responded to that pile of trash in a normal fashion.

If you knew how Star Wars, debating, and inquiring worked, you'd see how you're completely wrong. I asked if you believe the light side to be stronger based on the dialogue in ESB. When it comes down to determining that, you cannot merely disregard all the other aspects. To point out a few, you'd have to take into consideration the fact that Yoda's not omniscient, and thus fallible. You cannot base a conclusion on words by a character when trying to determine something absolute like that.

For a real world example, let's say we're listening to a baseball game on the radio. Commentator A claims "Wow, Player X is the best in the league currently!", does it have to be true simply because he said it? Absolutely not. We'd have to take into account the facts, like statistics, and whatnot, to see if it really is correct.

Obviously, that simple concept eluded your feeble mind. The same concept applies here, you cannot just toss aside everything else when you need to come to a verdict (unless the statement comes from an all-knowing subject). If that was the case, there would be no need for trials in criminal cases, simply because a victim reports a crime, it must be true.

Now, to get back on point, I expanded on exactly why Yoda's words are wrong using Lucas' quote, ergo my question needed to be looked upon further, something of which you apparently couldn't comprehend.

So, you fail. Utterly. Yet again.

I am new in this part of the Forum so when a respect member asks me to do come to a conslusion from one statement I really isn't gonna debate that subject and take other things into perspective and because like you said my IQ is possible low because I am doing as I am told.

And what If we doesn't have them, by the hand. Then what are we going to do, are we going to to say, no the speaker is wrong. And doesn't watch baseball.

And I would like to reply that None is all knowing not even you GL in the real world which you like to get examples from. And you do know that if a murder is commited and you find a name written by the dead then that statement alone would be enough to actually send that person to jail. Sorry you real world example is a little flawed

And again I only answered you question from one point of view that was all I did, and you throw a shit dump at me What the f**k?

And again are it allowed to change a persons replies??? thus manipulating them? I guess not because only a really stupid and feeble minded person would do such thing and apparently you put yourself far above such a thing.

Go and read the Dark Sword Durga the hutt uses a former scientist how worked at the death star and was executed numorous times by Sidious and yet each time Sidious transfer his soul into a new body. What do you think saved Palpatine at endor his charming smile??? For the first time I can say come again (Luder)

And thanks S_W_LeGenD I know what the dark side is in comparison to the light even though it doesn't seem that way. I know it is more power and so on giving more freedom and all that but overall its a curse. But thanks anyway

Advent
So a chain link fence of text is easier to understand than "If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side"?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Advent
So a chain link fence of text is easier to understand than "If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side"?

Yes but maybe that was because that I have decided to shout out everything you said.

Listen I am sorry for given the wrong impression, in powerthemes yes the Dark is stronger, but in the overall I still believe the light to be the strongest sorry for not pointing that out embarrasment

Advent
Originally posted by Utrigita
I am new in this part of the Forum so when a respect member asks me to do come to a conslusion from one statement I really isn't gonna debate that subject and take other things into perspective and because like you said my IQ is possible low because I am doing as I am told.

LOL! What does me being a well respected user have to do with anything? It's impossible to make an accurate conclusion on just words, without reviewing the situation further (again, unless the spoken words come from an all-knowing individual, or a situation in a similar fashion).



If we don't have the statistics, and other various tools of comparison? Then we cannot make the conclusion, at all (that he's right, or wrong), but you came to a verdict in this situation, regardless.



George Lucas is infallible when he speaks about Star Wars. Likewise, when comic book creators, who have absolute control of their respective comics make a statement pertaining to their own work, they're right when they make a statement like "Superguy X is faster than Superguy B", etc.



No, you're rebuttal is what's flawed, Mr. McCoy (kudos to those who get that; which, in actuality, should be everyone).

So, you're telling me that if one finds, for example, a letter that written by the victim that says "Person X killed me! ARHHG!", then by that alone, the alleged murderer would be found guilty? Then you truly have no understanding of law.

Why? Because, for starters, the medical examiner may find evidence that links the victim to a different person, or the alleged killer has a solid alibi, backed up by a respectable witness, or there could've been a witness that saw exactly what happened, and could identify the real murderer, which isn't Person X, or the crime scene investigators could've found materials that prove otherwise.

You see? There's a plethora of different reasons as to why the supposed killer is, in reality, innocent. So, no, my example wasn't flawed. QED, *****.

Edit:

Hell, if what you wrote was true, there'd probably be so many innocent people in jail right now. Since there isn't (well, there probably is, but they are found guilty by actual reason, and conference), that's just testament that you were wrong in trying to jump the gun, and answer without considering anything else.



Right, so if I change someone's posts, I am "stupid" and "feeble minded" (I noticed you stole this from my vocabulary; learn a new word everyday, don'tcha'?)?

Yet, I attend college, and receive good markings (save for math, I hate it with a passion). Alright then, I guess the percentage of the world that I'm smarter than must be consider mentally retarded then, which includes you.

Darth Sexy
Good lord, Utriga I suggest you don't type anymore.

Utrigita
Are you not a respected user sorry then I must have thought you someone els.

And yes we can still make the assumption that he is good but we have only one thing to work with (I can now see that aren't good at math)

No you cannot say that a writer has 100% control over his person/universe I spend a lot of time in comic vs forum and there I have learned that a writer in there has SHIT to say every moves in changing his character, has to be approved by either Marvel ore DC and by the other writes in question els he cannot write that person A can beat person B when person B can defeat person C which person A cannot defeat, so sorry that is no the way it works good try though which is why the books sometimes contradicts themselves and GL cannot go out everytime and correct something if he did, he couldn't do anything els.

Lets say we find a victim killed in a bankvault, we have near to nothing to work with but then we find a handwritten note where is says that person X killed me because Person X closed the door, It rarely happens that the victim can writte it down that is why it when it is done is consideret very strong evidence.

True you learn something every day, and I thought I was going to use you own words and still my question is that allowed, of cause I can always ask the moderators.

Then it would pain you to know that in my country I am straight A sorry In a mathematic line hate langauge.

And a girl with just the lowerst form of brainactivity wouldn't have changed a reply/manipulated one, I wonder which school you are attending, not a good one els you parents are wasting there money.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good lord, Utriga I suggest you don't type anymore.

shut you mouth sexy that would really be nice big grin

Darth Sexy
Don't say I didn't warn you. Have fun continuing getting pwned.

Advent
Good Buddha, Utrigita! You're still typing? You've lost, get over it, you cannot beat me. Meh, oh well. I'll continue for the time being, this is kind of fun.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Are you not a respected user sorry then I must have thought you someone els.

Originally posted by allfg
the best are Advent, AcStyles, Gideon, and Zephiel, and in that order too.
Originally posted by Kadesh
we would pwn cuz this section has the best debators, namely gideon advent LS styles and sexy

^

Clearly respected, and according to popular belief (there's an innumerable amount of posts on the "top" debaters), one of the best.

Oh, and if you can read, I asked what me being "respected" has to do with anything. I'll take note that you skirted the question, and responded with something that you cannot even get out of my statement. Seeing as I never said I wasn't respected, and acknowledged that I, indeed, am.



Except that isn't the situation here, nor is it what my examples was demonstrating, or even asked, Mr. McCoy.

It doesn't matter if we can say if he's just "good", we're not discussing that. We have to make a conclusion that he's "the best in the league", because that is what the commentator stated, and that is what we're trying to find out (if he's really correct, or not). And, that is something we cannot do without considering statistics, and other current, updated sources.

So, try again. I can now see that you aren't good at, well, anything.



Well, that's good for me, seeing as I said "creator", and I stated in specifics what type of control he has over his comic, I said "absolute control", meaning he isn't restricted by his contractor, or whatever company publishes the comic. So, all that time you've been jerking off in the Comic Book 'Versus' Forum didn't do you too much good.

See below for further expansion.



Oh, so that's why you're so clueless! It all makes sense now. The Comic Book 'Versus' Forum is pretty much riddled with idiots, majority of which have grammar that would make my third grade English teacher puke. And, how can I forget the fact they wouldn't know logic if it smacked them in the face (some of them, not all - Nikkolas, for example, knows his shit).



See above. I laughed out loud.

Since when is making a comic book a trademark of only Marvel, and DC Comics? As I thought, never.

So, if an independent creator decides to redesign, or state various things regarding the physical attributes, or magical power of one character to another, they have to receive approval from Marvel, and DC? Rofl. Not every comic book has to be licensed under the two aforesaid companies.

Plus, my example was about a creator who has "absolute control", meaning he can do whatever the **** he wants, whenever the **** he wants, so you fail. Utterly. Yet again. You're even denser than I had previously thought.



See above; try to make sense next time. I don't speak Finnish (as that's what this steaming pile of shit looks like).



Again, try to make sense next time. I don't speak Finnish (as that's what this steaming pile of shit looks like).

Now, the book example you gave, is - like almost everything you're gross fingers touch - irrelevant. I said when George Lucas speaks, he cannot be trumped. Such as, in this matter. If he says "The dark side is stronger", then it is. Absolutely nothing can question that. So, what the **** do books have to do with that? Oh? Nothing? Thought not.



Except that has nothing to do with my point. My point was that, if we used your line of thinking, there's no way to get around being guilty if a victim claims you to have committed a criminal act on him/her, or if you're linked to a crime.

However, as we see, the Justice System doesn't work that way, and we have to consider other evidence, and reasonings. Thus, you're wrong. I'm not going to bother to directly respond to your faulty example, because it's rather off the point, and stupid, for lack of a better word.



In your case? I don't think so, because you're 19 years old (I'm two years older, so respect your elders, bizatch), yet there's no way you've learned 7,000 plus things, seeing as you're still a dimwitted buffoon.



Go for it.

Does it really look like a care if I get a warning, temporary suspension, or permanent ban? No, it's an internet forum. Not anything important.



It only pains me to know that a boy who's mentally handicapped can achieve an "A".

But, then again, I keep on forgetting you're in the special education class. Either that, or your teacher is a complete dumbass, which wouldn't come as a shock to me given what I've seen from you. Actually, I have my doubts that you're even in school, because my sister had displayed more intelligence at age 7 than of what I've seen of you during this entire argument.



And I'd wonder if you even attend school.

Riverollv
damn, advent. poor utrigita really... you really got the worst out of him... though i gotta say it was kinda fun to read how you pwned him over and over again

Utrigita
Originally posted by Advent
Good Buddha, Utrigita! You're still typing? You've lost, get over it, you cannot beat me. Meh, oh well. I'll continue for the time being, this is kind of fun.






^

Clearly respected, and according to popular belief (there's an innumerable amount of posts on the "top" debaters), one of the best.

Oh, and if you can read, I asked what me being "respected" has to do with anything. I'll take note that you skirted the question, and responded with something that you cannot even get out of my statement. Seeing as I never said I wasn't respected, and acknowledged that I, indeed, am.



Except that isn't the situation here, nor is it what my examples was demonstrating, or even asked, Mr. McCoy.

It doesn't matter if we can say if he's just "good", we're not discussing that. We have to make a conclusion that he's "the best in the league", because that is what the commentator stated, and that is what we're trying to find out (if he's really correct, or not). And, that is something we cannot do without considering statistics, and other current, updated sources.

So, try again. I can now see that you aren't good at, well, anything.



Well, that's good for me, seeing as I said "creator", and I stated in specifics what type of control he has over his comic, I said "absolute control", meaning he isn't restricted by his contractor, or whatever company publishes the comic. So, all that time you've been jerking off in the Comic Book 'Versus' Forum didn't do you too much good.

See below for further expansion.



Oh, so that's why you're so clueless! It all makes sense now. The Comic Book 'Versus' Forum is pretty much riddled with idiots, majority of which have grammar that would make my third grade English teacher puke. And, how can I forget the fact they wouldn't know logic if it smacked them in the face (some of them, not all - Nikkolas, for example, knows his shit).



See above. I laughed out loud.

Since when is making a comic book a trademark of only Marvel, and DC Comics? As I thought, never.

So, if an independent creator decides to redesign, or state various things regarding the physical attributes, or magical power of one character to another, they have to receive approval from Marvel, and DC? Rofl. Not every comic book has to be licensed under the two aforesaid companies.

Plus, my example was about a creator who has "absolute control", meaning he can do whatever the **** he wants, whenever the **** he wants, so you fail. Utterly. Yet again. You're even denser than I had previously thought.



See above; try to make sense next time. I don't speak Finnish (as that's what this steaming pile of shit looks like).



Again, try to make sense next time. I don't speak Finnish (as that's what this steaming pile of shit looks like).

Now, the book example you gave, is - like almost everything you're gross fingers touch - irrelevant. I said when George Lucas speaks, he cannot be trumped. Such as, in this matter. If he says "The dark side is stronger", then it is. Absolutely nothing can question that. So, what the **** do books have to do with that? Oh? Nothing? Thought not.



Except that has nothing to do with my point. My point was that, if we used your line of thinking, there's no way to get around being guilty if a victim claims you to have committed a criminal act on him/her, or if you're linked to a crime.

However, as we see, the Justice System doesn't work that way, and we have to consider other evidence, and reasonings. Thus, you're wrong. I'm not going to bother to directly respond to your faulty example, because it's rather off the point, and stupid, for lack of a better word.



In your case? I don't think so, because you're 19 years old (I'm two years older, so respect your elders, bizatch), yet there's no way you've learned 7,000 plus things, seeing as you're still a dimwitted buffoon.



Go for it.

Does it really look like a care if I get a warning, temporary suspension, or permanent ban? No, it's an internet forum. Not anything important.



It only pains me to know that a boy who's mentally handicapped can achieve an "A".

But, then again, I keep on forgetting you're in the special education class. Either that, or your teacher is a complete dumbass, which wouldn't come as a shock to me given what I've seen from you. Actually, I have my doubts that you're even in school, because my sister had displayed more intelligence at age 7 than of what I've seen of you during this entire argument.



And I'd wonder if you even attend school.

What a load of shit

there is no point in saying anything against that because all you can clearly do is insulting people.

Just for the fun of arguement though You obviously cannot see what a respected user have to do with anything so why tell you, you will figure it out sooner ore later (later)

wouldn't mean anything if you get banned hmm considering the time you spend in here it would be a shock to you since what are you then going to use you time on.

How do you know I am 19 because my user profile says so you are more dumb then I thought possible.

Again you changed the subject I choosed a different angle but you couldn't see that either.

Is that the usuale statement you uses when you cannot find a good answear and cannot insult people probably because they are saying something that means something "learn to write" confused

:Oh, so that's why you're so clueless! It all makes sense now. The Comic Book 'Versus' Forum is pretty much riddled with idiots, majority of which have grammar that would make my third grade English teacher puke. And, how can I forget the fact they wouldn't know logic if it smacked them in the face (some of them, not all - Nikkolas, for example, knows his shit).:

At least we aren't ***** slapping around new users that come into oure forum unless its Judge but you apparently do so and takes a sick pleasure in doing so, which school is you at a mental instituation

Again you parents are wasting there money on you, ore perhaps they spend money on you to get you away from them so that they can live there lifes in peace who knows.

A's in a mathematic line but you didn't get that either actually you ability to learn something is quiet astoneshing seen how you constantly changes one of you statement to another so that it fit in you little deluded mind.

Last time I respond in this Thread because The only way you can ever win a argument is by bitchslapping people and by this I have learned not to accept the elders since they are apparently in this part of KMC a bounch of degenerated misserable lifes with nothing except star wars to fill there empty lifes (that must the you, you the only one that fit)

Advent
Originally posted by Utrigita
What a load of shit

I know you'd like to thank your shit don't stank, but lean a little bit closer, see that roses really smell like poo-oo-ooo.

Oh, by the way, thanks for continually trying to be like me! I feel like I'm back in the schoolyard.



Except where I defeated your so called "points" at every turn? Please, fool. I only resort to insults when it comes down to those who really are incapable of properly adding to the discussion at hand, and get pissed when I show them their errors (sounds like you, fancy that).



I've already figured it out, McCoy, it has nothing to do with anything. Actually, I knew that from the get go, but oh well. You can't tell me, because there's nothing to tell. Quit being so juvenile.



1. Go out clubbing an extra night per week.
2. Read a book.
3. Go clothes shopping.
4. Go party, or hang out with friends (something you don't have in Finland).
5. Work extra hours.
6. Go on GameFAQs more regularly.
7. Do my makeup.
8. Laugh at you.
9. Play Xbox 360.
10. Get crunk, son.

Need I go on?



So, I'm "dumb", due to the fact that you might have possibly lied about your birth date? I figured as much, my baby was more mature than you when I was 19, and I wasn't even pregnant (nor have I been)!

Seriously speaking, though, you're pathetic.



More like, you couldn't grasp the original point, and when you responded, I debunked that point. So, there's no point in continuing when I'm just kicking your e-ass.



I don't speak Finnish (as that's what that steaming pile of shit looks like).



Yes, you don't "b!tch slap" new users, because most of the new users are equally as idiotic as you are, thus you feel "Wow, dis guy so k00l. He think like me". You see, the rest of the human world has evolved, I suggest you try it out, as I'm sure being a hairy chested baboon, with dragging knuckles is no fun. Catch up, Darwin.

LOL! After reading the rest of what I wrote, I'm putting most of it in my profile. XD. Funniest shit I've ever read. laughing

xxXAcStylesXxx
10. Get crunk, son.

laughing

Utrigita
I forgot to say one thing advent in my reply to you, which is the following

You are actually a very nice girl I am sure of that and I have actually quiet enjoyed this mudthrowing contest which the main part of my forum believe I won and the main part of you forum believed you won, either way it was funny as hell to have this "discussion" the next time I won't be so stubborn and you where right all along the Dark Side is stronger in terms of Power output.

Hope we can do this another time, and hope it will be just as fun again big grin

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Utrigita
I forgot to say one thing advent in my reply to you, which is the following

You are actually a very nice girl I am sure of that and I have actually quiet enjoyed this mudthrowing contest which the main part of my forum believe I won and the main part of you forum believed you won, either way it was funny as hell to have this "discussion" the next time I won't be so stubborn and you where right all along the Dark Side is stronger in terms of Power output.

Hope we can do this another time, and hope it will be just as fun again big grin

You won the argument? You won any part of the argument? Are you kidding me? Good lord what are you retarded? You have a case of the Noobaris? You got verbally raped son..

Count Makashi
Luke wins, he is the best that ever lived.

Darth Sexiest
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Yea, as good as Sidious is by this point, Luke is just simply better. It wouldn't be pwnage per se, but Luke wins with slightly less than moderate difficulty.


I guess this means that Marka Ragnos is still the most powerful Sith ever, since apparently NJO Luke (As of the ending to "The Unifying Force"wink can take out DE Sidious.

Realistically, (and besides the whole black-holes thing) NJO Luke was not much more powerful than RotS Yoda.

And If you don't believe me, try comparing their speed, strength and insight through the Force.

I have.

Gideon
Originally posted by Utrigita
I forgot to say one thing advent in my reply to you, which is the following

You are actually a very nice girl I am sure of that and I have actually quiet enjoyed this mudthrowing contest which the main part of my forum believe I won and the main part of you forum believed you won, either way it was funny as hell to have this "discussion" the next time I won't be so stubborn and you where right all along the Dark Side is stronger in terms of Power output.

Hope we can do this another time, and hope it will be just as fun again big grin

Then your cabal of friends on whatever-the-hell forum you're on can't simply spot "ownage". Advent's equals or competition when it comes to debating is few and far between, and you, my friend, are most definately not among that number. Darth Sexy is right. You were completely, soundly, and utterly annihilated in this little debacle.

LORDSIDIOUS01
NJO Luke is one of the most powerful jedi, DE Sidious goes down.

Count Makashi
Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
I guess this means that Marka Ragnos is still the most powerful Sith ever, since apparently NJO Luke (As of the ending to "The Unifying Force"wink can take out DE Sidious.

Realistically, (and besides the whole black-holes thing) NJO Luke was not much more powerful than RotS Yoda.

And If you don't believe me, try comparing their speed, strength and insight through the Force.

I have.

What, you got to be kidding, NJO Like at his best would super mega pwn ROTS Yoda, how did you come up with this.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.