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I dunno if someone has posted this before, but here it goes:

1. Anakin & Obi
2. Revan & Malak
3. Exar Kun
4. Nihilus
5. Bane
6. Mace
7. Yoda
8. Asajj, GG, Durge, Jango, Boba
9. DE Sidious

Theres almost no rest. Only 5 secs after each opponent.
The battlefields change in each fight. They vary on the way in which Luke's opponents take advantage

He loses to Exar.

He's going to have a hard time with Revan and Malak, so he will be very tired and run down after 2, and Exar would defeat the exhausted Luke.

nah... he wont have a hard time with Revan AND Malak. I think he would take out Malak without much difficulty. Then he would have a harder time with Revan, but he would make it not seriously injured

loses at Exar? Hahahaa.. He makes it through

thats what i think... even though im a BIIIG Revan fan..

Originally posted by Riverollv
nah... he wont have a hard time with Revan AND Malak. I think he would take out Malak without much difficulty. Then he would have a harder time with Revan, but he would make it not seriously injured
You forgot that distraction can lead to defeat.

We all know that what happened to LOTF Luke when he got distracted during the fight against Lumiya.

Revan and Malak both know many offensive powers and are strong in the Force and both of them are stronger then Lumiya. While Luke focuses on one individual, the other will cause serious damage.

Now it is possible for NJO Luke to survive in this fight because he is the most powerful being but he also has some limits and will get seriously injured at 2.

I agree with Darth_Glentract that he will stop at Exar Kun.

And even if he manages to pass Exar Kun then he won't get past Nihilus.

You already have made 1st two challenges hard for him.

He will lose at 3 or probably at 4. And even if luck keeps him from falling against Nihilus then 5 will be the last.

I say that he falls at 4.

Is this post KotOR Revan (regained memories) and SF powered Malak? If so, then Luke loses at 2 imo.

but anakin skywalker is preety good cant he and obi kill him

I would say that he get past nihilus but thats about it a though gauntlet this one, especial because of the two first teams!!! they will really tire him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Revan and Malak both know many offensive powers and are strong in the Force and both of them are stronger then Lumiya. While Luke focuses on one individual, the other will cause serious damage.

Despite being a god in star wars, he wouldnt just "have a hard time". Emerald lightning is more than enough to kill revan and malak both at the same time

And dont forget he moves faster than the eye can see, making one lightsaber looking like 20

Wow, Revan and Malak 2 on 1 will be kinda tough, but he'll definately take them, Kun could put up a fight but likely won't win. Nihilus has a chance, too, if not Bane could take him if it's Bane in his prime, otehrwise he makes it to DE Sidious. Why are Malak and Revan at #2? they should be #8...

/yes, Legend....we know what happened to Luke against Lumiya....we know what happens when Luke allows his ass to be kicked on purpose because he still loves the attacker.

Luke slaughters his way through the first 3, no problem. Likely almost all the way

agree with lightsnake didn't he also say later that he could easily have killed her???

He does more than that...he defends against all her attacks with one hand and no apparent effort

I doubt Luke would have just let Lumiya beat him (here's the chance for the debate that you seem so desperate for at EOD) purely out of love for her, more like he would have held back from killing or defeating her.

Uh he did hold back from killing her. Someone hasn't read the new LOTF book.. Try again

edit

He can pretty much use force attacks to get through this gauntlet.

Originally posted by allfg
I doubt Luke would have just let Lumiya beat him (here's the chance for the debate that you seem so desperate for at EOD) purely out of love for her, more like he would have held back from killing or defeating her.
Well, I suppose you haven't read Exile. Luke proves he is capable of killing Lumiya if he ever decides to do so.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Despite being a god in star wars, he wouldnt just "have a hard time". Emerald lightning is more than enough to kill revan and malak both at the same time

And dont forget he moves faster than the eye can see, making one lightsaber looking like 20
And you think that Revan and Malak can't block lightning attacks? Pure crap assumption.

Provide me an evidence that suggests that Emerald lightning can instantly kill a Jedi that is almost like Yoda. Even Malak could counter many Force attacks because of his very good defensive abilities.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
/yes, Legend....we know what happened to Luke against Lumiya....we know what happens when Luke allows his ass to be kicked on purpose because he still loves the attacker.

Luke slaughters his way through the first 3, no problem. Likely almost all the way
Yeah! Luke fanboyism at his finest.

He cannot constantly barrage through other powerful Jedi like they are shit or something.

He certainly falls at 4 or at max 5.

Luke is strong, okey, he has stuff like emerald lightning that kill people. But do you know how much energy those force moves take up? About 3/4, I would say. Using one in the gauntlet would be very stupid.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
He can pretty much use force attacks to get through this gauntlet.
Others can use Force attacks too.

And do exactly what to Luke?

Revan can make mini Force Storms and can also force shield himself with a shield that can absorb/block force powers. I'm preety sure Malak can do the same.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
And do exactly what to Luke?
Kiss him or something?

Luke can counter many Force attacks but it becomes difficult to do so in case of fighting against two very powerful opponents. The chances of getting injured are high because others won't be just sitting around.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Revan can make mini Force Storms and can also force shield himself with a shield that can absorb/block force powers. I'm preety sure Malak can do the same.

@ jollyjim311

How many people can Force Shield themselves? Not all Jedi are powerful enough to defend against many Force attacks. Some powerful Jedi have strong defensive abilities but many Jedi do not have strong defensive abilities.

But Revan and Malak can indeed counter many Force attacks because they have strong defensive abilities.

Every Jedi (and Sith) are taught a force defence.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Every Jedi (and Sith) are taught a force defence.
And not all are good at it.

See this line: Some powerful Jedi have strong defensive abilities but many Jedi do not have strong defensive abilities.

General Example: Some powerful Jedi like Revan, Malak and Yoda can block Force Lightning even without a Light Saber. But many Jedi can't block Force Lightning by themselves or without a Light Saber.

Example from the Movies: Yoda and Dooku could deflect Force Lightning with their hands. Obi-Wan blocked it with his Light Saber.

Considering that emerald lightning is on an entirely different level of the force, I find hit highly unlikely that any Jedi or sith could block it.

That too, but, I was just thinking he could rip through their force shields with conventional force attacks, like pushes, or choke them into submission.

Of course, with Luke, he would have to throw a ridiculous move at them instead.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Considering that emerald lightning is on an entirely different level of the force, I find hit highly unlikely that any Jedi or sith could block it.
An assumption.

I agree that emerald lightning is a very powerful Force technique and it was effective against Vong.

But I need an evidence in which it is shown that emerald lightning can knock out and kill a very powerful Jedi instantly. Only in this case I will be convinced.

Okay, and I need definite proof that Revan can attack in more than a few different ways, once every three seconds. Until you show him attacking in ways other than are seen in KOTOR, I won't be convinced he can.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
An assumption.

I agree that emerald lightning is a very powerful Force technique and it was effective against Vong.

But I need an evidence in which it is shown that emerald lightning can knock out and kill a very powerful Jedi instantly. Only in this case I will be convinced.

You need evidence of that? That's not logical. That's like saying "I need evidence of Revan and Malak defeating the most powerful force user in SW". That's how stupid it sounds. Nor do I care about you being convinced because logic is thrown out when fanboyism is involved. Since the emerald lightning was able to affect the vong on an entirely different level of the force, it is HIGHLY unlikely Revan or Malak or any force user can defend against it.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, and I need definite proof that Revan can attack in more than a few different ways, once every three seconds. Until you show him attacking in ways other than are seen in KOTOR, I won't be convinced he can.
Game Mechanics limit the possibility of movements of a character. Revan's moves cannot be fully judged from Game Mechanics.

and your posts cannot be taken for logical arguments.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You need evidence of that? That's not logical. That's like saying "I need evidence of Revan and Malak defeating the most powerful force user in SW". That's how stupid it sounds. Nor do I care about you being convinced because logic is thrown out when fanboyism is involved. Since the emerald lightning was able to affect the vong on an entirely different level of the force, it is HIGHLY unlikely Revan or Malak or any force user can defend against it.
The point is that you have no evidence.

If Emerald Lightning was so effective against Jedi then Luke had the chance to use it on Lumiya.

It is designed specially to counter Vong. We can't just say that because it is a special technique, so it will pawn every Jedi in sight unless there is an evidence available. It is indeed a Lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
and your posts cannot be taken for logical arguments.
I can say the same about yours.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The point is that you have no evidence.

If Emerald Lightning was so effective against Jedi then Luke had the chance to use it on Lumiya.

It is designed specially to counter Vong. We can't just say that it is a special technique so it will pawn every Jedi in sight

Point is I don't need evidence, I have logical deduction. And your argument destroys itself. That's like saying why didn't Malak use his force drain on Revan, or why didn't Revan use his many ancient sith techniques on Malak, or why didn't Sidious instantly kill Luke on the death star. Very easy, because they didnt NEED to. And Luke didn't want to kill Lumiya, if you read Exile, you'd know that. So please, your logic is as bad as Noobaris.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I can say the same about yours.

Course not.. Facts>Fanboyism.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Point is I don't need evidence, I have logical deduction. And your argument destroys itself.
Evidence is what matters most in these kinds of debates.

Logical deductions are not always true.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's like saying why didn't Malak use his force drain on Revan, or why didn't Revan use his many ancient sith techniques on Malak
Malak threw everything he knew at Revan on Star Forge and this happened even in the game. Try to fight without Force Immunity and you will see that Malak uses his Force Drain on Revan. So your point is moot.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
or why didn't Sidious instantly kill Luke on the death star. Very easy, because they didnt NEED to. And Luke didn't want to kill Lumiya, if you read Exile, you'd know that. So please, your logic is as bad as Noobaris.
Sidious was trying his best to kill Luke on Death Star with his Force Lightning after Luke refused to turn to Dark Side. He could not insta-kill him because Lightning cannot insta-kill a strong Jedi.

Sidious was indeed hesitant to kill Luke first because he wanted his make him to apprentice and he let Vader do the job for him. But once he decided to kill Luke and unleashed his Force Lightning, it was a totally different situation then. Again your point is moot.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Course not.. Facts>Fanboyism.
You have provided me no facts and just your assumptions regarding a Force ability. Facts are determined by evidences from canonical sources or consultations from Authors and not assumptions.

Okey, I am really starting to think most of the people here hadn't played KOTOR or atleast went thought it.

Whichever noob crossed out my quote saying Revan can make mini Lightning Storms probably never beat the game and never got to the last level of Lightning

Okey now, once you do beat the game and get to the last level of lightning, this is the title. "LIGHTNING STORM"
This is a fact, not a logic. Facts>Logic.

We have never seen Luke use emerald lightning against poweful jedi, so it has a high probability of having a weakness against powerful jedi or sith and can be easily blocked.


If you ever gotten to the end of the game and fought Malak, you would've known he uses Force Drain on you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Evidence is what matters most in these kinds of debates.

Logical deductions are not always true.
Except when they're logicala nd you can't disprove them.



Considering you don't know anything about force immunity and that you just stated that gameplay isn't canon, I think you just owned yourself.



But Sidious had an instakill and by your logic, if all of these people have these uber moves, why not use them. Once again, self pwnage.


And yet again, if all of the characters have these moves, by your logic, they should use them. Self pwnage 3 times..

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have provided me no facts and just your assumptions regarding a Force ability. Facts are determined by evidences from canonical sources.

Facts are also determined by logical deduction which is unable to be disproved. You have yet to disprove it and it is logical, therefore it's as factual as it gets.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except when they're logicala nd you can't disprove them.
Another stupid argument. I can disagree with what you said. Unless your view is backed by a canonical evidence, don't tell me that you have a better arguement.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Considering you don't know anything about force immunity and that you just stated that gameplay isn't canon, I think you just owned yourself.
I don't know about Force Immunity? Wow!

I just told you that Malak uses Force Drain on Revan if you don't boost your defences. Because you said that Malak does not uses Force Drain on Revan and this is not true. Malak used his Draining abilities on the Jedi and logic points that he used it against Revan as well as evident from the fight in the game.

Also "Game Mechanics" and "Game-play" are two different things. What we do in the game is not canon but what the characters do in the game against you is canon.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
But Sidious had an instakill and by your logic, if all of these people have these uber moves, why not use them. Once again, self pwnage.
Sidious had an instakill in ROTJ? Then why did it not worked on Luke?

And you are mistaken if you think that their is an pwnage in this case.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And yet again, if all of the characters have these moves, by your logic, they should use them. Self pwnage 3 times..
I notice an irrelevant mis-direction here. You don't have any argument and you say pwnage. You better get your eyes checked.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Facts are also determined by logical deduction which is unable to be disproved. You have yet to disprove it and it is logical, therefore it's as factual as it gets.
Considering the fact that Force Lightning attacks can be blocked so same will happen in case of Emeral Lightning. If not by hands then by Light Sabers.

My logical deduction also stands.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another stupid argument. I can disagree with what you said. Unless your view is backed by a canonical evidence, don't tell me that you have a better arguement.
Congratulations, you've made one of the most retarded statements this forum has ever had, and have shown your inability to understand the rules of logical debating. You can disagree with whatever the hell you want, nobody cares about your fanboyism, but when you can't counter a logical argument with one of your own, your opinions mean very little. Logical deduction wins on this forum.



Prove that Malak canonically possessed force immunity..


I'm just ridiculing your stupid argument about "If everyone has an instakill, why dont they use it".



Same reason why Luke didn't use his on Lumiya, and why the ancient sith didn't use theirs on others. There was no need to dumbass.


Except I can logically back it up, while all you have is your fanboy opinion.




Except all of my posts provided an argument while yours provided an opinion. Denial can be a powerful ally.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Considering the fact that Force Lightning attacks can be blocked so same will happen in case of Emeral Lightning. If not by hands then by Light Sabers.

My logical deduction also stands.

You don't possess any logic as you've clearly shown. You're comparing force power X to force power Y. Sorry to tell you but because one common force technique can be blocked, doesn't mean that another one that was invented on another level of the force can be, ESPECIALLY since nobody but Luke has knowledge of it. Sure, your "logical deduction" still stands, but only in your head.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Okey, I am really starting to think most of the people here hadn't played KOTOR or atleast went thought it.

Whichever noob crossed out my quote saying Revan can make mini Lightning Storms probably never beat the game and never got to the last level of Lightning

Okey now, once you do beat the game and get to the last level of lightning, this is the title. "LIGHTNING STORM"
This is a fact, not a logic. Facts>Logic.

We have never seen Luke use emerald lightning against poweful jedi, so it has a high probability of having a weakness against powerful jedi or sith and can be easily blocked.


If you ever gotten to the end of the game and fought Malak, you would've known he uses Force Drain on you.

I have played KOTOR.

I crossed it out because it is just a game name, it isn't actually Sidious' power, and, Revan was lightside.

Emerald lightning effects beings that are immune to force attacks, also, Revan would have no idea what it even is. He'd probably throw up his lightsaber thinking it was lightning and die.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Congratulations, you've made one of the most retarded statements this forum has ever had, and have shown your inability to understand the rules of logical debating. You can disagree with whatever the hell you want, nobody cares about your fanboyism, but when you can't counter a logical argument with one of your own, your opinions mean very little. Logical deduction wins on this forum.
And I don't care about your fanboyism as well.

I asked for a simple evidence and you can't provide it. And you are just stating your assumption and passing it on as a fact, which is idiotic.

You should congratulate yourself for your own foolishness.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Prove that Malak canonically possessed force immunity..
Malak is a fully defined character in the game and he possessed Force Immunity and this capability was attributed to him with approval from Drew K and also probably by Lucas Arts. The point is that he had some good defensive abilities and thus he countered many Force attacks as evident from his fights. See! this is called proper logic with some backing.

An example: He deflected a Light Saber thrown at him without much effort. Also Force Immunity is an advanced form of Force Resistance and Malak could resist or counter many Force attacks.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'm just ridiculing your stupid argument about "If everyone has an instakill, why dont they use it".
I never said this line. You are trying to put words in my mouth.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Same reason why Luke didn't use his on Lumiya, and why the ancient sith didn't use theirs on others. There was no need to dumbass.
Idiot!

Traya insta-killed 3 Jedi Masters because she knew that it was the best way to defeat them.

If Luke had the chance to destroy Lumiya and his Lightning could insta-kill a Jedi then he could have used it on her. No one was holding him back. But he did not do so for a reason. And several cases show that a Lightning attack does not insta-kill a strong Jedi.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except I can logically back it up, while all you have is your fanboy opinion.
Logically you have not backed any shit.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except all of my posts provided an argument while yours provided an opinion. Denial can be a powerful ally.
You are in a denial actually.

You also have just stated an opinion. And my opinion is based on some observations.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't possess any logic as you've clearly shown. You're comparing force power X to force power Y. Sorry to tell you but because one common force technique can be blocked, doesn't mean that another one that was invented on another level of the force can be, ESPECIALLY since nobody but Luke has knowledge of it. Sure, your "logical deduction" still stands, but only in your head.
My logic is based on observations regarding Lightning attacks.

Emerald Lightning was invented to damage Vong and it just did that. There is no evidence that shows that this technique can destroy a powerful Jedi instantly.

My point stands.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And I don't care about your fanboyist views as well.
Except my views are objective and logical. I'm glad you're repeating all of my criticism back to me, thanks for being a parrot.


You ask for specific evidence that doesn't exist and then you claim that I can't prove anything. Ergo, I provided a logical conclusion, and it matters little to me you accept it.


You should congratulate yourself for yours elf pwnage.



Yes, proper logic based on a gameplay fight! Good one.. Now since there is no canon evidence that Malak possessed force immunity, it's speculation.



No, she killed them because she wanted them to feel what the Exile feels, the death of the force. You'd know that if you played KOTOR II.


Luke held himself back and youre looking like a moron because this comes from a book you have not read. Therefore, read the book before spewing out ignorance.



Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it true



Thanks for playing the game of "I know you are but what am I". Enjoy high school.


My argument is based on objective and logical deductions. Your "argument" is based on subjective observations. Good one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emerald Lightning was invented to damage Vong and it just did that. There is no evidence that shows that this technique can destroy a powerful Jedi instantly.
Except for the fact that it reached a higher level of the force than any force user or any being in the galaxy has achieved, and Luke was the only one who knew the technique, so again your argument is destroyed.


Only in your mind.

how long does a force storm last? One that Luke could/would make?

Provide proof that Emerald Lightning takes up 3/4 of your power. Its not a game, they don't have force power levels by their names or something. If you're always attuned to the force, they you can keep using it.

To prove that Revam or Malak could block EL, you would have to prove that its no different than regular Sith lightning. Can you do that? No, didn't think so.

There's also no evidence that EL cant destroy a Jedi instantly...you cant use that he's never done it because that doesn't mean he cant. I can run my car into a crowd of people...but i haven't done it...see how illogical that is?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Considering the fact that Force Lightning attacks can be blocked so same will happen in case of Emeral Lightning. If not by hands then by Light Sabers.

My logical deduction also stands.

An assumption.
But I need an evidence in which it is shown that emerald lightning can be blocked by sabers and/or hands. Only in this case I will be convinced.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except my views are objective and logical. I'm glad you're repeating all of my criticism back to me, thanks for being a parrot.
No your views are objective and logical only in your head.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You ask for specific evidence that doesn't exist and then you claim that I can't prove anything. Ergo, I provided a logical conclusion, and it matters little to me you accept it.
Your logic is flawed.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You should congratulate yourself for yours elf pwnage.
There is no self pwnage here. You look like a perfect idiot by stating this over and over again.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, proper logic based on a gameplay fight! Good one.. Now since there is no canon evidence that Malak possessed force immunity, it's speculation.
Game-play? No!

Canon evidence is that Drew assigned this ability to Malak. Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, she killed them because she wanted them to feel what the Exile feels, the death of the force. You'd know that if you played KOTOR II.
She used an insta-kill ability on them, which is what matters more.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Luke held himself back and youre looking like a moron because this comes from a book you have not read. Therefore, read the book before spewing out ignorance.
Luke held himself back from killing Lumiya. But this have nothing to do with his emerald lightning. He have yet to show us that his lightning can insta-kill a powerful Jedi. Until this happens, I will stick by my point.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it true
Again! your point is your opinion and is not backed by any form of canon or a view of an author.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thanks for playing the game of "I know you are but what am I". Enjoy high school.
Lack of argument and thats it.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
My argument is based on objective and logical deductions. Your "argument" is based on subjective observations. Good one.
My arguments have some basis. Your argument is based on just a self belief.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except for the fact that it reached a higher level of the force than any force user or any being in the galaxy has achieved, and Luke was the only one who knew the technique, so again your argument is destroyed.
His Lightning was unique in the sense that it could kill Vong. This does not means that it could kill a powerful Jedi instantly as well. A lightning is an energy based attack and it can be blocked. Last time I checked and it was clear that Vong were not using Light Sabers against Luke.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Only in your mind.
Same is the case about you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No your views are objective and logical only in your head.
Wonderful, a parrot.



I bet



Sure I do fool.



compelling argument


Good lord, you're pathetic enough to make shit up. "Drew assigned blahblah" Drew didn't assign shit..



No, that's irrelevant.



No, you said that he didn't hold back and if his emerald lightning could be used on force users, he would have. You sound like a blabbering buffoon contradicting yourself.



Except facts can be created without an author's consent as long as it doesn't contradict real canon. Thanks for your ignorance.




Thanks parrot.. Want evidence of a failing argument? Just copy everything the OTHER guy said.. Great going jackass.

After fighting Anakin and Obi-Wan, he would be tired. If somehow he made it mast Revan and Malak, Exar would PWN him. rip

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Same is the case about you. thanks parrot

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
An assumption.
But I need an evidence in which it is shown that emerald lightning can be blocked by sabers and/or hands. Only in this case I will be convinced.
Emerald Lightning is also an energy based attack. Light Sabers can block energy based attacks.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have provided me no facts and just your assumptions regarding a Force ability. Facts are determined by evidences from canonical sources or consultations from Authors and not assumptions.

Hey, man, you really need to stop arguing about this.
Im Revan's no.1 fan, and im tellin you this: NJO Luke>Revan and Malak.
There are other Jedi and Sith more powerful than Revan in star wars, like Exar Kun, or DE Sidious. NJO LUke is the most powerful being in all of star wars. He beats DE Sidious and he certainly beats Kun. Malak is not at all as strong as Revan... he simply isnt. Revan is stronger by far.
Malak wouldnt actually last long against Luke. You cannot say Revan and Malak can beat NJO Luke or put him a GREAT fight cuz its simply not logical. If LUKe can beat DE SIdious or Kun, who are stronger than Revan and Malak, (and thats a fact) its logical that in any way, Force using or saber figthing, he would beat them both

totally, lightsaber can block force storms..

Revan is lightside? Since when? Where talking about Post Darth Revan, I suppose. And everyone agrees the most powerful Post Darth Revan is in his Sith Form. YOU get to choose the side on which you fight, so saying Darth Revan is lightside is kinda stupid, giving me more of a reason to think you never played the game.

Emerald Lightning COULD have been invented by Luke just for an attack that can kill Vong, nobody knows what it's effect will be on a poweful jedi or sith. So this arguement is stupid, it could be either way and has a 50-50 chance.


The force storm Revan had in the game LOOKED like a force storm, and ACTED like a force storm. What is there not to understand? Revan made a cloud of lightning up in the air which preety much electrifies any opponents around. Althought not as powerful as Sidious's which can go VERY far, thats why I said MINI Force Storm.

When you fight Malak in KOTOR IT IS USELESS TO USE FORCE ATTACKS ON HIM! Hmm.. Lemme see... What does that show? Something that blocks the force... Hmm... FORCE IMMUNITY!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
totally, lightsaber can block force storms..
Force Storm is very different from Lightning techniques.

Originally posted by Riverollv
Hey, man, you really need to stop arguing about this.
Im Revan's no.1 fan, and im tellin you this: NJO Luke>Revan and Malak.
There are other Jedi and Sith more powerful than Revan in star wars, like Exar Kun, or DE Sidious. NJO LUke is the most powerful being in all of star wars. He beats DE Sidious and he certainly beats Kun. Malak is not at all as strong as Revan... he simply isnt. Revan is stronger by far.
Malak wouldnt actually last long against Luke. You cannot say Revan and Malak can beat NJO Luke or put him a GREAT fight cuz its simply not logical. If LUKe can beat DE SIdious or Kun, who are stronger than Revan and Malak, (and thats a fact) its logical that in any way, Force using or saber figthing, he would beat them both
You don't need to tell me that Luke can beat both Revan and Malak. I have already stated this.

Oh, okay then. With who do you think Luke will fall?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wonderful, a parrot.
Nice argument

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I bet
Don't need to. Your logic is without any basis.


Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sure I do fool.
You are indeed a fool.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
compelling argument


Good lord, you're pathetic enough to make shit up. "Drew assigned blahblah" Drew didn't assign shit..
Drew created Malak. He master-minded the creation of KOTOR game. What ever was put in it was with his approval.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, that's irrelevant.
No! it is not irrelevant. She used an insta-kill ability and it matters because it showed that her Drain ability could instantly kill Jedi.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, you said that he didn't hold back and if his emerald lightning could be used on force users, he would have. You sound like a blabbering buffoon contradicting yourself.
What I wanted to say is that he had the chance to use emerald lightning on Lumiya to defeat her quickly if it was so effective against Jedi. He didn't and your point again fails.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except facts can be created without an author's consent as long as it doesn't contradict real canon. Thanks for your ignorance.
Facts are determined by canonical sources. Thanks but no thanks!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thanks parrot.. Want evidence of a failing argument? Just copy everything the OTHER guy said.. Great going jackass.
Hi pigeon!

Your have no better argument either so why not STFU.

Originally posted by Riverollv
Oh, okay then. With who do you think Luke will fall?
Since this is a non-stop fighting match.

So he will go down at 4 or 5 at most.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Revan is lightside? Since when? Where talking about Post Darth Revan, I suppose. And everyone agrees the most powerful Post Darth Revan is in his Sith Form. YOU get to choose the side on which you fight, so saying Darth Revan is lightside is kinda stupid, giving me more of a reason to think you never played the game.

Emerald Lightning COULD have been invented by Luke just for an attack that can kill Vong, nobody knows what it's effect will be on a poweful jedi or sith. So this arguement is stupid, it could be either way and has a 50-50 chance.


The force storm Revan had in the game LOOKED like a force storm, and ACTED like a force storm. What is there not to understand? Revan made a cloud of lightning up in the air which preety much electrifies any opponents around. Althought not as powerful as Sidious's which can go VERY far, thats why I said MINI Force Storm.

When you fight Malak in KOTOR IT IS USELESS TO USE FORCE ATTACKS ON HIM! Hmm.. Lemme see... What does that show? Something that blocks the force... Hmm... FORCE IMMUNITY!

Wow.

Revan has been determined, by the creators, to be a male and lightside. I've played the game, and I liked it a lot. How else would I know that : Power attack looked dumb and had an unnecessary flip, every opponent was a pushover, and the Selkath planet sucked.

Have you read any NJO? He wouldn't need the lightning, he could just throw Revan and Malak a mile away.

It did not look like a force storm. Did it rip apart the fabric of space itself? I don't think so. It was just lightning. There's no way you've read DE.

Wow, that's gameplay, but, even if it wasn't, it would show that Revan isn't powerful enough to affect Malak. Sucks for him.

"Have you read any NJO? He wouldn't need the lightning, he could just throw Revan and Malak a mile away."

At last someone that agrees with me

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious was trying his best to kill Luke on Death Star with his Force Lightning after Luke refused to turn to Dark Side. He could not insta-kill him because Lightning cannot insta-kill a strong Jedi.

His instant-kill worked on the Dark Side adepts in the Vader vs. Maul comic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yeah! Luke fanboyism at his finest.

He cannot constantly barrage through other powerful Jedi like they are shit or something.

He certainly falls at 4 or at max 5.
Have you read Exile? Are you just being dumb on purpose? It's shown outright in that book that Luke was NOT fighting Lumiya in Temeps.t

How do we know? He says he could've killed her at any time and casually deflects all her attacks using his saber with one hand.

Luke could very well make it to the top

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Revan is lightside? Since when?

The earliest official known date (to the public, and to my knowledge) was July 13, 2005, where Leland Chee posted this at the official forums:

"Another example is the decision to make Revan a male character. Again, these types of things are only determined when needed." (Holocron continuity database).

You have the internet, try using it next time.



"Everyone agrees"? No, in fact, Darth Malak's dialogue indicates otherwise:

"Well done, Revan. I was certain the defenses of the Star Forge would destroy you, but I see there is more of your old self in you than I expected. You are stronger than I thought; stronger than you ever were during your reign as the Dark Lord." (Darth Malak, KoTOR).

Although Malak is an in-universe source (and thusly, fallible), he still has a greater knowledge, and understanding of Revan's power than anyone here. And, of course, the Light side ending is canonical, ergo the quote was in regards to Revan as he were on said side of the Force.



In the game, yes, we do. Outside of the game, officials at LucasFilms, Ltd. get to decide, and their decision was, as jollyjim has already mentioned, a light sided, male character.



Or, the more likely case, it just suggests that your knowledge base on Revan is limited to video games.



If you take a comparison of Darth Sidious' Force Storm, and Revan's you'd find a vast difference. Darth Sidious' Force Storm:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5647/destroyingfleets2kiv4.th.png

Darth Sidious' version is a wormhole, which is mentioned to "rend the fabric of space", and as shown, consume entire fleets. As well, it's a "storm of raw energy", and summoned via:

"Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal through which vast energies are released -- the energies of the dark side of the Force" (The Book of Anger).

Now, as for the KotOR Force Storm, I don't recall it even having any of the same effects as Sidious', neither was it described in the same fashion. It was merely, as you've said, an attack that causes electrification.

You've reminded me why I took a break from this forum, FFS. Incapable of logic reasoning? Check. No (viable) evidence provided? Check. Clueless? Check.



It doesn't matter what you said, son. It's not the same force attack, and the fact that you lack any justification for assuming such furthers the point that you're wrong.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious was trying his best to kill Luke on Death Star with his Force Lightning after Luke refused to turn to Dark Side. He could not insta-kill him because Lightning cannot insta-kill a strong Jedi.

If you're referring to RotJ, you're completely wrong.

From what we've seen displayed of the sheer power and intensity his lightning can generate up to his incarnation RotJ, it can clearly kill the victim in a relatively short amount of time, or at the least, knock said victim unconscious upon contact. Luke had neither of those ill effects induced upon him, in fact, he was still writhing in pain, and could still muster the strength to call to his father for help, continuously I might add.

Furthermore, as soon as the lightning is lifted off of Luke and thusly goes into the air wildly, Luke gets right back up. The lightning displayed in RotJ was light years from Palpatine's upper limit.

For reinforcement purposes, Palpatine's lightning in action:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1580/sidiouspwnsdc3.th.png
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/455/doomuponws1.th.png
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3266/survivedapp43ne6.th.png

Indeed, the "Strikeout King" would've been reduced to a steaming pile of ash had he applied his greatest strength into the attack.

Thank you for bringing some logic back to this forum Advent. Without you and Escape here, some of these creatures run wild with stupidity.

You by far are is the most annoying fanboy of revan, at least legend and the revan fans come out with logical assumptions


Originally posted by Spidervlad
Revan is lightside? Since when? Where talking about Post Darth Revan, I suppose. And everyone agrees the most powerful Post Darth Revan is in his Sith Form. YOU get to choose the side on which you fight, so saying Darth Revan is lightside is kinda stupid, giving me more of a reason to think you never played the game.
Actually canonically it was stated revan turned back to the lightside and malak stated that revan is EVEN MORE powerful than his pre kotor form. The NEC proves this so dont babble that people didnt play the game when we did and further researched it/.

Originally posted by Spidervlad

Emerald Lightning COULD have been invented by Luke just for an attack that can kill Vong, nobody knows what it's effect will be on a poweful jedi or sith. So this arguement is stupid, it could be either way and has a 50-50 chance. Really? We have seen what ordinary lightning can do, sidious killed 100 storm troopers with it while instantly killing lukes apprentice. Luke is the god of star wars and is stated to be the most powerful force user ever. The force attacks he unleashed were described as immense and even in TUF. he was described as a maelstorm of force energy

Originally posted by Spidervlad

The force storm Revan had in the game LOOKED like a force storm, and ACTED like a force storm. What is there not to understand? Revan made a cloud of lightning up in the air which preety much electrifies any opponents around. Althought not as powerful as Sidious's which can go VERY far, thats why I said MINI Force Storm.
Sadly revan has never done that. Force storm is tearing a hole in space, and sidious destroyed the entire fleet with that move killing thousands of people
Originally posted by Spidervlad

When you fight Malak in KOTOR IT IS USELESS TO USE FORCE ATTACKS ON HIM! Hmm.. Lemme see... What does that show? Something that blocks the force... Hmm... FORCE IMMUNITY! Gameplay isnt accurate, safe to say that vader can use lightning since he did it in the ROTS game right? wrong!

It's pretty much open to interpretation, but I believe that Revan would have turned back to the darkside once he fully regained his memories, that's the most likely scenario, because clearly within his memory is the trigger that originally sent him to the darkside, so why wouldn't the same effect take place after regaining his memories? He'll probably be a boss in KotOR 3 if there is one.

Originally posted by allfg
It's pretty much open to interpretation, but I believe that Revan would have turned back to the darkside once he fully regained his memories, that's the most likely scenario, because clearly within his memory is the trigger that originally sent him to the darkside, so why wouldn't the same effect take place after regaining his memories? He'll probably be a boss in KotOR 3 if there is one.

Good god Noobaris, you just purposely make it a point to argue against canon. And you wonder why you are the joke on this forum. Guess what, nothing in what you said is open to interpretatiion, or is logical.. Revan WOULDNT have turned back to the darkside because he came back to the light. Nothing in his memory was a trigger that sent him to the darkside. You love making shit up and then wondering why you can't win a debate.

Originally posted by Advent
If you're referring to RotJ, you're completely wrong.

From what we've seen displayed of the sheer power and intensity his lightning can generate up to his incarnation RotJ, it can clearly kill the victim in a relatively short amount of time, or at the least, knock said victim unconscious upon contact. Luke had neither of those ill effects induced upon him, in fact, he was still writhing in pain, and could still muster the strength to call to his father for help, continuously I might add.
As far as I know, Force Lightning can instantly kill non force sensitive or ordinary beings. But tolerance level of a Jedi is greater then that of ordinary beings. It is a very rare case in which a Jedi got instantly killed by Force Lightning and I have yet to see such a case. Yes! I have seen Jedi getting knocked out for a short time by Force Lightning but this has happened to those Jedi who could not or failed to defend against a Lightning attack but they were not killed by it.

A few examples: Anakin tolerated Dooku's Lightning in AOTC. Yoda tolerated Sidious's Lightning in ROTS.

Luke had greater tolerance level then ordinary beings. And his reaction showed that Force Lightning actually causes pain and burns. Sidious was zapping him with both of his hands. He was trying to do his best to terminate Luke in short time. Luke became weaker and weaker with each zapping until his father realized that Luke would be killed.

Originally posted by Advent
Furthermore, as soon as the lightning is lifted off of Luke and thusly goes into the air wildly, Luke gets right back up. The lightning displayed in RotJ was light years from Palpatine's upper limit.
That is because of the advantage of Force.

There is also a technique known as "Force Healing". Luke might have knowledge of this capability but of-course, I do not know.

Originally posted by Advent
Indeed, the "Strikeout King" would've been reduced to a steaming pile of ash had he applied his greatest strength into the attack.
You failed to note that Sidious was using both of his hands (just like in one of your PICS) to zapp Luke. He was applying massive intensity to maximize the intensity of torment and pain for Luke. He was showing no mercy.

Link: http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8551/zappyl3.jpg

Yet this great display of power failed to kill him instantly. I can make a case that Luke's tolerance level was much higher then we could expect. The only problem was that he did not knew how to deflect the Lightning with his hands.

Luke might have used Force Healing ability to recover quickly and get back to his feat. This is open to interpretation however because we don't fully know.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as I know, Force Lightning can instantly kill non force sensitive or ordinary beings. But tolerance level of a Jedi is greater then that of ordinary beings. I have hardly seen a Jedi being instantly killed by Force Lightning. Yes! I have seen getting kocked out unconcious for a short time has happened but only to those Jedi who could not or failed to defend against a Lightning attack but they were not killed by it.
As far as you know doesn't exactly cut it, because there's nothing to suggest ordinary force lightning could instantly kill a non force sensitive. I'm pretty sure there's been many times in the NJO novels when non force sensitives have been hit, i'll ask lightsnake. However, your assumptions are baseless. Not to mention this is all highly irrelevant because Emerald Lightning=/force lightning.


Dooku's lightning wasn't nearly as powerful as Sidious' lightning. Furthermore, Sidious' lightning knocked Yoda unconscious. After that, Yoda simply blocked and absorbed his lightning. As usual you're comparing force lightning to Luke's new instakill which are not the same things..


You know nothing about the tolerance levels of Luke nor the beings of the SW galaxy. I'm sure it's logical to suggest that because a Jedi has midichlorians that work differently, they can absorb more force based attacks, but that is another assumption. This is your third irrelevant post in a row.



During ROTJ? Please, Luke couldn't even swing a lightsaber properly.



Or we can make a case that Sidious was toying with him, until that very last second. I'm sure you haven't read the comics where Sidious gets serious and fries the mystics of the darkside, and stormtroopers in another comic. So your point is moot.

Here's the problem. Advent has provided facts and a logical argument, while all you have is "oh he might have done this or that"..I'd say that's a loss for you.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As far as you know doesn't exactly cut it, because there's nothing to suggest ordinary force lightning could instantly kill a non force sensitive. I'm pretty sure there's been many times in the NJO novels when non force sensitives have been hit, i'll ask lightsnake. However, your assumptions are baseless. Not to mention this is all highly irrelevant because Emerald Lightning=/force lightning.
And am I discussing emerald Lightning here? No.

And yes! ordinary people and non-force sensitive beings have been instantly killed by powerful bursts of Force Lightning in various cases.

Want some examples then here are some:

A)- Sidious killed over 100 stormtroopers with his powerful bursts of Force Lightning.
B)- Revan killed several Rakatan scouting parties with his powerful bursts of Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Dooku's lightning wasn't nearly as powerful as Sidious' lightning. Furthermore, Sidious' lightning knocked Yoda unconscious. After that, Yoda simply blocked and absorbed his lightning. As usual you're comparing force lightning to Luke's new instakill which are not the same things..
I know that Dooku's Lightning is not as powerful as that of Sidious's Lightning. You don't need to tell me this but it still was effective against a Jedi as Anakin was knocked out for a short time.

I am once again not talking about emerald lightning. I am talking about Force Lightning and that too with advent. Your interference is not welcomed.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You know nothing about the tolerance levels of Luke nor the beings of the SW galaxy. I'm sure it's logical to suggest that because a Jedi has midichlorians that work differently, they can absorb more force based attacks, but that is another assumption. This is your third irrelevant post in a row.
Once again! a baseless comment from you which is not good. You and I both make assumptions in several cases and I stated that I have made an assumption and that I do not fully know. You don't need to tell me that what I should state and what I should not.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
During ROTJ? Please, Luke couldn't even swing a lightsaber properly.
Very bad observation. He defeated Vader in combat and that was testimony of his skills. Vader himself said that Luke's training was complete in ROTJ.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Or we can make a case that Sidious was toying with him, until that very last second. I'm sure you haven't read the comics where Sidious gets serious and fries the mystics of the darkside, and stormtroopers in another comic. So your point is moot.
Again a possibility. But from what I saw in the movie, he was applying a massive burst of Lightning. We all know very well that Sidious's Lightning always had strong intensity in it.

And those stormtroopers are not as powerful as Luke was in ROTJ. Not a fair comparison, I guess!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Here's the problem. Advent has provided facts and a logical argument, while all you have is "oh he might have done this or that"..I'd say that's a loss for you.
Advent has mentioned her views with some basis and so have I.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yes! ordinary people have been instantly killed by powerful burts of Force Lightning.
No no, you tried to say that force lightning instantly kills ALL non force sensitives. Please try not to contradict yourself.



Yes, it was effective against an impatient padawan. Wow..


If you can't defeat me in an argument, you sure as hell won't do to Advent. I'm doing you a favor by stepping in. You're welcome.



Then don't state baseless assumptions. When I make an assumption its based on logical evidence or deduction. I don't say "I think" because what "I think" doesn't matter in a debate, if I can't back it up.



Define complete. We have canonical proof that Luke didn't know anything but TK and force push by ROTJ..



And we all know that when Sidious means business, someone gets wtfpwned.


Yoda was more powerful than ROTJ Luke, and he got pwned by Sidious' lightning.



Her views had basis to them. Yours don't.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No no, you tried to say that force lightning instantly kills ALL non force sensitives. Please try not to contradict yourself.
I mean't that powerful bursts of Force Lightning can instantly kill all non-force sensitive beings. I used a simple word "Force Lightning" and this still does not contradicts my case. If my choice of words bothers you, then I will be more careful.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, it was effective against an impatient padawan. Wow..
That padawan was Anakin Skywalker and he was good even in AOTC.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
If you can't defeat me in an argument, you sure as hell won't do to Advent. I'm doing you a favor by stepping in. You're welcome.
I am not trying to defeat any one here in this debate. It's a pity to see that you consider debating as a means of victory/defeat. I consider debates as a means of knowledge.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Then don't state baseless assumptions. When I make an assumption its based on logical evidence or deduction. I don't say "I think" because what "I think" doesn't matter in a debate, if I can't back it up.
My observations regarding the effects of Force Lightning are also based on canon materials.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Define complete. We have canonical proof that Luke didn't know anything but TK and force push by ROTJ..
Vader said "your training is now complete" to his son. Source: ROTJ movie.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And we all know that when Sidious means business, someone gets wtfpwned.
Sidious mean't business in case of Luke as well.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yoda was more powerful than ROTJ Luke, and he got pwned by Sidious' lightning.
Yoda did not got pwned by Sidious's Lightning. He was knocked out for a short while and got back on his feet and send a message to Sidious by sending him flying from his position.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Her views had basis to them. Yours don't.
Sorry! I have provided a link that backs my view.

And even the top screen provided by her backs my view regarding Lightning's greater effectiveness on non-force sensitive beings.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as I know, Force Lightning can instantly kill non force sensitive or ordinary beings. But tolerance level of a Jedi is greater then that of ordinary beings. It is a very rare case in which a Jedi got instantly killed by Force Lightning and I have yet to see such a case. Yes! I have seen Jedi getting knocked out for a short time by Force Lightning but this has happened to those Jedi who could not or failed to defend against a Lightning attack but they were not killed by it.
How about those three Dark Siders Palpatine reduced to smoking bones in an instant?
Anakin didn't 'tolerate it'....Dooku wasn't attempting to kill him there. Yoda is also the most powerful Jedi up to that point

You're 100 percent wrong. Every source confirms Palpatine was taking his time torturing him


No. Palp was taking his time


No. According to the ROTJ novelization, ROTJ visual dictionatry,, complete visual guide and New Essential Chronology, Palpatine was taking his time to torture Luke

post-ROTJ, Luke could barely move later

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I mean't that powerful bursts of Force Lightning can instantly kill all non-force sensitive beings. I used a simple word "Force Lightning" and this still does not contradicts my case. If my choice of words bothers you, then I will be more careful.
How would you quantify powerful then? Dooku apparently has somewhat powerful force lightning but I highly doubt it could instantly kill anybody. You're providing a baseless assumption again.



Good enough for what?



I see it as a victory or defeat because both are a testament to your debating abilities and logical reasoning skills, or lack thereof.



Like what



So? Another blanket statement? What does it even mean?



Sure.. That's why he kept talking to him and smiling.



Which was also pwnage. Both got pwned by the others' force attack.



You provided a link of Sidious shooting force lighting. Wow, what a compelling argument. Makes me wonder why there are so many stupid judges and lawyers these days.


No it doesn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as I know, Force Lightning can instantly kill non force sensitive or ordinary beings.

That's a ridiculous assumption to make. Although a force based attack, it's still has the same apparent effects as normal lightning.

It could kill a non-Force sensitive being if a certain amount of intensity was applied, however, to assume that a weak blast of it (for example, Quinlan Vos' usage) would "instakill" them, when it more than likely wouldn't, is ludicrous.

Undoubtedly, a Jedi or Sith would have a greater defense against such an attack, and thereby have more resistance, but your lack of specifications on how much power renders your suggestion null.



We've seen three Force sensitive beings drop dead by Palpatine lightning, whilst only using a single hand (ergo, less powerful):

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3043/survivedapp43hk1.th.png

It matters not that you haven't "seen" something like that, because from what we've seen of Palpatine's lightning, a sub par Force user would be reduced to bone, and ash if he applied his upper limit.



What is your point, exactly? You're spewing a bunch of random bullshit, which is completely irrelevant to what I'm discussing. Please, stick to the point, or shut the hell up.



What is your point, exactly? You're spewing a bunch of random bullshit, which is completely irrelevant to what I'm discussing. Please, stick to the point, or shut the hell up.

Your examples are irrelevant to the discussion insomuch as they don't prove that Palpatine had been trying to vaporize Luke, or administering the "full dosage", so to speak.



He didn't have a greater tolerance than Sora, AotC Anakin, and Yoda. Either elaborate, or as par expected, your point holds no water.



Wow, good eye. Did you need to use the Hubble Telescope just for that one?



Prove up, or shut up.

Where do you see any evidence for this? It certainly isn't anywhere I've seen, and logic points to the fact that he was far from his utmost power.

If you believe the contrary, try providing evidence, instead of statements, of which contain not a shred of what I'm asking for.



1. Interrogative sentences end with a question mark, Einstein.

2. What does any of that have to do with what I wrote? What the hell are you even trying to get across? It's true that Luke would become anemic, but that's also due to the fact he was practically being tortured.

3. An example I can give that would show that - were Palpatine to use his full strength, Luke would've been knocked unconscious, at the very least - is Sora Bulq. Count Dooku unleashed an assault of Force lightning on Bulq:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3923/sorapwnedqy3.th.jpg

As we can see, this was with one hand. This is Sora Bulq, who's more skilled than RotJ in defense of the Force, given that he's had years of formal training, helped develop Vaapad, and an abundant amount of other reasons. Now, Sora was knocked out by Count Dooku's lightning, and we know that Palpatine's power, as of RotJ, are far above and beyond anything Count Dooku can conjure.

So, your assertion begs the question: why was Luke still conscious? Why did he get right back up in a split second? Clearly, you're wrong. And you cannot provide any viable proof to change that. QED. Try again, chump change.



Oh god, Anakin Skywalker in AotC took minutes to get up, and he got blasted by Count Dooku, who we've already covered as being far inferior to Palpatine.

The Force helps, but a neophyte farmboy like Luke Skywalker would never be able to get right back up, if someone like Palpatine gave him a dose of his utmost power, as you suggest. If Palpatine wanted him dead, he would've been.



As par expected, considering you "do not know" a lot of things.



Irrelevant. So, because he uses two hands, he must've been using a greater intensity of lightning than he could generate with one hand? No, that doesn't compute.

I can swing a baseball bat with two hands, and not use as much force as I could with one hand, if I chose to. Try again, chump change. You really cannot out debate me, so my best advice would be stop while your behind.



It wasn't a "great display of power". It was a display of power, not great, as we know, and you refuse to accept.

He wasn't trying to kill him instantly. Unless you prove otherwise, which you've: a) yet to do, and b) are incapable of doing.



I can, and have made a case (of which you've yet to refute properly), that Palpatine's lightning wasn't near its greatest. As a matter of fact, I've already had this conversation before you even came through the woodwork to spew your idiocy.



According to the script, he tried (and was "half successful". Now, obviously scripts aren't always on point, it still would disprove that he "did not know" how to defend against such an attack, seeing as even earlier drafts aren't considered N-canon.



Except you cannot even deduce that he knew it, nor is there anything to imply that he did use it. Indeed, I've already covered this, chump change. Save it for someone on a lower intellectual level than me (like a clone of yourself, or a sheepdog).

And the only thing open to interpretation is whether or not your mentally retarded, or just want to act like that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yes! ordinary people and non-force sensitive beings have been instantly killed by powerful bursts of Force Lightning in various cases. I am an idiot.

This may be relevant to what Sexy is discussing with you, however, if you note the massive scale of lightning Palpatine uses, and the apparent power, it's clear that he didn't go this far with Luke.



Then you should note that Count Dooku's lightning was able to put Sora Bulq to sleep (so to speak). Now, I've already stated this, but to get to the point: Sora > Luke (at least, in defense). So, if you believe that Palpatine really attempted to kill Luke, then you should take note of what happened in the scenario mentioned with Sora.



And somehow, Luke, who's again, not as skillful in the arts of defense (or the Force in general, as of RotJ), was able to get up in a split second. That's ridiculous.

By your logic, RotJ Luke must have a stronger defense than RotS Yoda, seeing as Yoda was also knocked unconscious for a very short amount of time.



His lightsaber skills, maybe. It's also speaks for the fact that Darth Vader sucks in comparison to the more powerful Jedi of the prequels in bladed combat. On the official Q&A, it states that ", though not as skillful as the young Jedi of the prequels", which is indicative that Darth Vader's skill in lightsaber combat is severely lacking (as it even mentions).

Nonetheless, if you'll note, Luke admits that he didn't believe Darth Vader had gone balls to the wall:

"And there was a further matter. In his battles with Darth Vader and the Emperor, Luke felt he had never truly tested his powers to the limits. Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive." (Courtship of Princess Leia, Ch. 21).



Take off your blindfold, and then watch the movie. He was increasing the power behind it gradually, but what you're saying is unsupported.

Indeed, but also from the movies, the Expanded Universe, and logic, it points to the fact that it wasn't as strong as you would believe, nor was he trying to "instantly kill" Luke.



"Some basis"? Please, fool. The correct sentence would've been: Advent has mentioned her views with an immensely strong basis, and I haven't. :gay emo smiley:



No, your "link" only shows Palpatine using Force lightning. If we're meant to gauge the amount of power behind the attack from a shoddy still like that, then you're completely mistaken.

Darth Sexy, and Lightsnake have already gone through this. The bottom line is: Palpatine wasn't applying his upper limit, and you have no evidence that indicates such.

Also, just for the record, here is a non-froce-sensitive not being instantly killed by lightning, thanks to Palpatine just teaching him a lesson: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=075

Yeah, LeGenD, you've been annihilated again. Sorry, you're not a good debater, your logic sucks, and you're completely - and utterly - wrong. NJO Luke > Revan and Malak. Not saying Luke makes it all the way, given the fatigue and his powerful enemies, but he beats those two.

wow, escape and Advent are back. Order is restored.

I believe NJO Luke gets through

Id say he goes down with Bane, or mkes it to the next one, but i dont think he makes it to the end

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How would you quantify powerful then? Dooku apparently has somewhat powerful force lightning but I highly doubt it could instantly kill anybody. You're providing a baseless assumption again.
Did we see Dooku using his Lightning on ordinary people? No.

His Lightning knocked the shit out of Anakin who was much stronger then an ordinary human even in AOTC. Now what would you expect will happen to an ordinary person, if he gets hit by Dooku's Lightning? That person will get pwned.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good enough for what?
Want a clue about his power?

- He single-handedly destroyed all Tuskin Raiders as they were nothing. And those Tuskin Raiders were ferocious warriors as Lars said.

- He fought Dooku and lasted longer then even Obi-Wan.

Now you were saying?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I see it as a victory or defeat because both are a testament to your debating abilities and logical reasoning skills, or lack thereof.
It is your obersvation. Not all think like you.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Like what
- Sidious's attack on Stormtroopers with Force Lightning (which killed them instantly)
- Sidious's attack on Luke with Force Lightning. (Which did not kill him instantly)
- Dooku's attack on Anakin with Force Lightning. (Which did not kill him instantly)
- Sidious's attack on Yoda with Force Lightning. (Which did not kill him instantly)
- Revan's attack on Rakatans with Force Lightning. (Which killed them instantly)

In these 5 cases we see that Lightning instantly kills non-force sensitives while Jedi do not die instantly from it.

Want any more explanaion?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So? Another blanket statement? What does it even mean?
Are you really this naive?

It means that Luke was a fully trained Jedi and he was adept in both Saber fighting and Force knowledge and was prepared for tough trials.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sure.. That's why he kept talking to him and smiling.
I referred to the situation when Sidious decided to kill Luke. Don't try to twist my points.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Which was also pwnage. Both got pwned by the others' force attack.
Pwnage in my eyes is terrible defeat and not temporary knockouts.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You provided a link of Sidious shooting force lighting. Wow, what a compelling argument. Makes me wonder why there are so many stupid judges and lawyers these days.
And you failed to notice that Sidious was attacking Luke with those powerful bursts of Force Lightning. I sometimes doubt your ability to grasp things quickly.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No it doesn't.
You need to get your eyers checked then.

legend sorry to burst your bubble but sidious lightning instantly killed a jedi in empires end. Lightning does kill force users, advent and lightsnake have been posting the pic where sidious fried 3 force users with lightning, it has been proven lightning does kill force users


And according to the old essential guide to characters. sidious was only torturing luke to teach him a lesson, the phrase "as he was about to deliver the killing bolts, vader turned against him". it is something like that(cant remember the exact quote) and subjeckt pointed this out before. This proves that sidious was torturing luke and thus did not kill him, And dooku shot anakin with lightning out of self defence, he was not going to kill anakin at that moment

Originally posted by Advent
That's a ridiculous assumption to make. Although a force based attack, it's still has the same apparent effects as normal lightning.

It could kill a non-Force sensitive being if a certain amount of intensity was applied, however, to assume that a weak blast of it (for example, Quinlan Vos' usage) would "instakill" them, when it more than likely wouldn't, is ludicrous.

Undoubtedly, a Jedi or Sith would have a greater defense against such an attack, and thereby have more resistance, but your lack of specifications on how much power renders your suggestion null.
I have been using the term "powerful bursts of Lightning" more often now. Did you care to check my next post? No.

The bold part of your post is what I have been trying to say for a long time here but nobody checked it.

My logic stands.

Originally posted by Advent
Again
We've seen three Force sensitive beings drop dead by Palpatine lightning, whilst only using a single hand (ergo, less powerful):

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3043/survivedapp43hk1.th.png
Were those Force sensitive trained in Jedi arts or powerful?

My point is that Lightning cannot instantly kill those who are strong in the Force.

Originally posted by Advent
It matters not that you haven't "seen" something like that, because from what we've seen of Palpatine's lightning, a sub par Force user would be reduced to bone, and ash if he applied his upper limit.
Malak's Lightning could do the same as well as it happened on Star Forge. The point is that Force Lightning varies in intensity. I am talking about those Jedi who are strong in the Force. Those Jedi who can't defend themselves from Force Lightning are prone to die quickly but their is always a chance to counter Lightning through Light Saber.

Originally posted by Advent
What is your point, exactly? You're spewing a bunch of random bullshit, which is completely irrelevant to what I'm discussing. Please, stick to the point, or shut the hell up.
Take these three cases in to consideration:

- Dooku shoots Lightning at Anakin. Anakin gets knocked out for a short time and then comes back.
- Sidious shoots Lightning at Yoda. Yoda gets knocked out for a short period and then comes back.
- Sidious shoots Lightning at Luke. Zapps him several times but Luke still comes back.

My point is that strong Jedi are not killed instantly by Lightning. And stop telling me to STFU. I can speak where-ever I want and when-ever I want to speak.

Originally posted by Advent
What is your point, exactly? You're spewing a bunch of random bullshit, which is completely irrelevant to what I'm discussing. Please, stick to the point, or shut the hell up.
My point is that Lightning attack does not instantly kills a strong Jedi.

Originally posted by Advent
Your examples are irrelevant to the discussion insomuch as they don't prove that Palpatine had been trying to vaporize Luke, or administering the "full dosage", so to speak.
Sidious was giving full dosage to Luke. But he did not got pawned.

Sidious was giving full dosage to Yoda but that resulted in a blast.

Still have doubts then it is your perception and not mine.

Originally posted by Advent
He didn't have a greater tolerance than Sora, AotC Anakin, and Yoda. Either elaborate, or as par expected, your point holds no water.
Are Sora, Anakin AOTC and Yoda ordinary beings? No.

Try to understand the statement before spewing out.

Originally posted by Advent
Wow, good eye. Did you need to use the Hubble Telescope just for that one?
Luke's screams gave what indication to you?

Do you need an Hubble Telescope to judge the impact of Lightning on a person?

Originally posted by Advent
Prove up, or shut up.
Did you see that Pic that I have provided here? No.

Sidious was zapping Luke with Lightning using both of his hands.

Here is a PIC for you to see again: http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8551/zappyl3.jpg

Originally posted by Advent
Where do you see any evidence for this? It certainly isn't anywhere I've seen, and logic points to the fact that he was far from his utmost power.
Care to provide me any proof that he was not exerting his utmost power? He was maximizing the pain of Luke by adding more intensity in to his Lightning. This is logic.

Originally posted by Advent
If you believe the contrary, try providing evidence, instead of statements, of which contain not a shred of what I'm asking for.
You don't have proof either so why ask me a proof. I have posted what I think that have happened. Sidious was applying great intensity in his Lightning to punish Luke as severely as possible. Luke's screams showed this.

Originally posted by Advent
1. Interrogative sentences end with a question mark, Einstein.

2. What does any of that have to do with what I wrote? What the hell are you even trying to get across? It's true that Luke would become anemic, but that's also due to the fact he was practically being tortured.

3. An example I can give that would show that - were Palpatine to use his full strength, Luke would've been knocked unconscious, at the very least - is Sora Bulq. Count Dooku unleashed an assault of Force lightning on Bulq:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3923/sorapwnedqy3.th.jpg

As we can see, this was with one hand. This is Sora Bulq, who's more skilled than RotJ in defense of the Force, given that he's had years of formal training, helped develop Vaapad, and an abundant amount of other reasons. Now, Sora was knocked out by Count Dooku's lightning, and we know that Palpatine's power, as of RotJ, are far above and beyond anything Count Dooku can conjure.

So, your assertion begs the question: why was Luke still conscious? Why did he get right back up in a split second? Clearly, you're wrong. And you cannot provide any viable proof to change that. QED. Try again, chump change.
You obviously did not understood my point. I said that Luke was becoming weaker and weaker as Lightning hit him. He was about to die. You don't need to tell me your theories on this.

Originally posted by Advent
Oh god, Anakin Skywalker in AotC took minutes to get up, and he got blasted by Count Dooku, who we've already covered as being far inferior to Palpatine.
And he came back? Didn't he?

Now I know that Sidious's Lightning would have more impact on him but still we can't say that he will be instantly killed by it.

Originally posted by Advent
The Force helps, but a neophyte farmboy like Luke Skywalker would never be able to get right back up, if someone like Palpatine gave him a dose of his utmost power, as you suggest. If Palpatine wanted him dead, he would've been.
Palpatine wanted him dead in ROTJ. End of story.

Originally posted by Advent
As par expected, considering you "do not know" a lot of things.
And you know a lot then why waste time arguing here?

Originally posted by Advent
Irrelevant. So, because he uses two hands, he must've been using a greater intensity of lightning than he could generate with one hand? No, that doesn't compute.
Yes! that computes.

A Sith Lord generates Force Lightning using one hand. The intensity is strong. Now at the same time he uses his other hand to generate Force Lightning. This second wave of Force Lightning will combine with that of the First wave of Force Lightning and the instenity will be doubled. See the logic?

Originally posted by Advent
I can swing a baseball bat with two hands, and not use as much force as I could with one hand, if I chose to. Try again, chump change. You really cannot out debate me, so my best advice would be stop while your behind.
You are just making an assertion that Sidious was not ulitizing his full power on Luke. You don't know this because you are not Lucas. I am not here to out-debate you because I don't need to waste my time on you. You don't have proper manners to stay civil in debates.

Originally posted by Advent
It wasn't a "great display of power". It was a display of power, not great, as we know, and you refuse to accept.

He wasn't trying to kill him instantly. Unless you prove otherwise, which you've: a) yet to do, and b) are incapable of doing.
It was a great display of power. The intensity of his Lightning was causing extreme pain to Luke.

Luke survived because of his strong will and strength in the Force.

Originally posted by Advent
I can, and have made a case (of which you've yet to refute properly), that Palpatine's lightning wasn't near its greatest. As a matter of fact, I've already had this conversation before you even came through the woodwork to spew your idiocy.
Sidious's Lightning was near his greatest. He was maximizing the pain of Luke.

Originally posted by Advent
According to the script, he tried (and was "half successful". Now, obviously scripts aren't always on point, it still would disprove that he "did not know" how to defend against such an attack, seeing as even earlier drafts aren't considered N-canon.
Well! his defensive abilities were not highly developed by ROTS.

Yoda managed to deflect Sidious's Lightning because his defensive abilities were strong.

Originally posted by Advent
Except you cannot even deduce that he knew it, nor is there anything to imply that he did use it. Indeed, I've already covered this, chump change. Save it for someone on a lower intellectual level than me (like a clone of yourself, or a sheepdog).

And the only thing open to interpretation is whether or not your mentally retarded, or just want to act like that.
Resorting to insults now. I am done with you. You might be a good debator but you don't have manners.

Originally posted by Advent
This may be relevant to what Sexy is discussing with you, however, if you note the massive scale of lightning Palpatine uses, and the apparent power, it's clear that he didn't go this far with Luke.
That Lightning he used on stormtroopers spread out in wide area because he wanted to target many enemeis.

In case of Luke, their was only one target so obviously Sidious would not need to fill an entire room when targeting him.

Originally posted by Advent
Then you should note that Count Dooku's lightning was able to put Sora Bulq to sleep (so to speak). Now, I've already stated this, but to get to the point: Sora > Luke (at least, in defense). So, if you believe that Palpatine really attempted to kill Luke, then you should take note of what happened in the scenario mentioned with Sora.
Sora might be stronger then Luke in some aspects but not in all aspects. Luke's training was complete by ROTJ period and he defeated Vader in combat. He also tolerated Sidious's Lightning to a great extent. I would say that Luke > Sora even by ROTS period.

Originally posted by Advent
And somehow, Luke, who's again, not as skillful in the arts of defense (or the Force in general, as of RotJ), was able to get up in a split second. That's ridiculous.
No my fault. You can't say that Luke had weak defensive abilities in ROTJ.

Originally posted by Advent
By your logic, RotJ Luke must have a stronger defense than RotS Yoda, seeing as Yoda was also knocked unconscious for a very short amount of time.
Yoda countered Sidious's Lightning in the end of fight? Didn't he?

And Yoda was very old when he fought Sidious. His body was not as strong as that of Luke.

Originally posted by Advent
His lightsaber skills, maybe. It's also speaks for the fact that Darth Vader sucks in comparison to the more powerful Jedi of the prequels in bladed combat. On the official Q&A, it states that ", though not as skillful as the young Jedi of the prequels", which is indicative that Darth Vader's skill in lightsaber combat is severely lacking (as it even mentions).
Advent! ROTJ was developed in 1970's. Technology was not very advanced at that time. ROTJ Luke was not weak in comparison to PT comrades but he was not on par with them and I will admit this. Remember that AOTC and ROTS movies were developed usng highly advanced technology. So characters in these movies looked far more impressive.

Darth Vader's Saber skills were indeed not on par with that ROTS Vader. But he was not a bad duelist even as a half-machine. Expanded Universe based tales of Darth Vader show this.

Originally posted by Advent
Nonetheless, if you'll note, Luke admits that he didn't believe Darth Vader had gone balls to the wall:

"And there was a further matter. In his battles with Darth Vader and the Emperor, Luke felt he had never truly tested his powers to the limits. Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive." (Courtship of Princess Leia, Ch. 21).
Vader could defeat Luke if he had wanted to but not in Saber Combat because he was not as agile as Luke was. And when Luke got angry, it was end of Vader. Courtesy: ROTJ movie.

Originally posted by Advent
Take off your blindfold, and then watch the movie. He was increasing the power behind it gradually, but what you're saying is unsupported.
The thing is that he was applying great intensity in his Lightning at some point when targetting Luke.

Originally posted by Kadesh
legend sorry to burst your bubble but sidious lightning instantly killed a jedi in empires end. Lightning does kill force users, advent and lightsnake have been posting the pic where sidious fried 3 force users with lightning, it has been proven lightning does kill force users


And according to the old essential guide to characters. sidious was only torturing luke to teach him a lesson, the phrase "as he was about to deliver the killing bolts, vader turned against him". it is something like that(cant remember the exact quote) and subjeckt pointed this out before. This proves that sidious was torturing luke and thus did not kill him, And dooku shot anakin with lightning out of self defence, he was not going to kill anakin at that moment
Lightning does kills Force sensitives but does it kills powerful and trained Force users instantly when they have their defences set to their max abilities? No.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did we see Dooku using his Lightning on ordinary people? No.
So?


Wtf do you not understand about what Advent told you? As a jedi he has more ways of stopping or avoiding the lightning, but him being a jedi doesn't make him naturally more immune to lightning than a human.




Yea, ferocious warriors that were no match for Jedi, good job proving power and providing more irrelevant nonsense.


That your argument has been defeated and you want to waste more text with irrelevant garbage.



I guess me and Advent have the same logical thought process. Or you're just incapable of thinking.



Revan's attack on the rakatans did not kill them instantly. Furthermore Sidious' lightning could wtfpwn anybody if he was serious. Moot point.


Are you really this incompetent?


Except he was NOT adept to force knowledge other than basic TK and force choke.



You're not making any points.



I've doubted your debating abilities since day 1. You haven't failed me yet.



You need to quit while you're behind.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda managed to deflect Sidious's Lightning because his defensive abilities were strong.
so?



I would do the same thing if I was faced with stupidity, consider it a blessing. You're getting taught a lesson in logic 101.



Sidious was toying with him, get over it.



Except "complete" for Luke isn't the same thing as "complete" for any of the Old Republic Jedi. I guess you forgot that Luke had a ghost of Obiwan and a dying Yoda training him.



Yes you can, where would he learn how to defend against force lightning? YOu have to crawl before you can walk.



Irrelevant point. The force boosts bodily functions and everything else, and ROTS Yoda was much much more powerful than ROTJ Luke.



Wonderful, when all logic fails, lets blame technology. Your argument is over.


Irrelevant



Yes, if he wanted to. Thanks for being the authority on Vader's mind, Noobaris JR.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So?
You obviously have no clue to what I am saying and just separating my statements here and there, which is not good.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wtf do you not understand about what Advent told you? As a jedi he has more ways of stopping or avoiding the lightning, but him being a jedi doesn't make him naturally more immune to lightning than a human.
Advent said this: Undoubtedly, a Jedi or Sith would have a greater defense against such an attack, and thereby have more resistance

Shall I say: pwned?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea, ferocious warriors that were no match for Jedi, good job proving power and providing more irrelevant nonsense.
Those ferocious warriors had advantage of numbers. A single Jedi pwned them and even 30 people could not do this. And that Jedi was Anakin who was not at all ordinary in any sense.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That your argument has been defeated and you want to waste more text with irrelevant garbage.
Not yet. Obi-Wan fought against Dooku and lost. But Anakin fought Dooku and lasted longer then Obi-Wan. What clue did this gave to you? Anakin was stronger.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I guess me and Advent have the same logical thought process. Or you're just incapable of thinking.
You are incapable of understanding my points.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Revan's attack on the rakatans did not kill them instantly. Furthermore Sidious' lightning could wtfpwn anybody if he was serious. Moot point.
How do you know? Revan launched a Force attack and surviving Rakatans bowed before him. It was an instant defeat.

And Sidious was serious when he started zapping Luke. Remember this term "So be it! Jedi".

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Are you really this incompetent?
Lack of argument from your part.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except he was NOT adept to force knowledge other than basic TK and force choke.
How do you know? Many Jedi mostly rely on TK abilities or Force Push in fights.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're not making any points.
Again trying to twist my point. Good try.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I've doubted your debating abilities since day 1. You haven't failed me yet.
I doubted your debating abilities when you could not understand simple points made by me. Good try.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You need to quit while you're behind.
Why? you control my actions now?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
so?
So you obviously did not get my point again. You are indeed pathetic.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I would do the same thing if I was faced with stupidity, consider it a blessing. You're getting taught a lesson in logic 101.
I don't insult people who have less knowledge then me.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sidious was toying with him, get over it.
How do you know? Sidious was applying great intensity in his Lightning so that he could maximize pain for Luke and Luke's screams were clear indication of this.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except "complete" for Luke isn't the same thing as "complete" for any of the Old Republic Jedi. I guess you forgot that Luke had a ghost of Obiwan and a dying Yoda training him.
Why? Does the complete word have different meaning for every Jedi now? You obviously have made a bad assertion.

And that dying Yoda lifted a damn heavy small space craft out of a sticky and muddy region. Think before posting something.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes you can, where would he learn how to defend against force lightning? YOu have to crawl before you can walk.
Yoda taught him something? Didn't he?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Irrelevant point. The force boosts bodily functions and everything else, and ROTS Yoda was much much more powerful than ROTJ Luke.
And he managed to counter Sidious's Lightning because he was great at Force Deflecting.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wonderful, when all logic fails, lets blame technology. Your argument is over.
I said that Luke was not on par with ROTS Jedi. Learn to read properly.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Irrelevant
That point was mean't for Advent and not you. You stick to your points.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, if he wanted to. Thanks for being the authority on Vader's mind, Noobaris JR.
Thanks for being an authority on Sidious's mind.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You obviously have no clue to what I am saying and just separating my statements here and there, which is not good.
99% of what you are saying is irrelevant crap, hence the repeated "so".



While you're saying that because the person is a Jedi, he would biologically be able to withstand force attacks as opposed to non force sensitives. That's not what Advent is saying.. Sorry..



Baseless and illogical assumptions.



And yet this isn't an Anakin vs. Obiwan thread, so thanks for more irrelevant crap.



You're not making any relevant points worth understanding.



No no no you said he instantly killed them with his force attack. Stop contradicting yourself. And stop making shit up with baseless assumptions.


And then he started laughing as he was torturing Luke. You enjoy arguing against facts?



Because Luke spent a limited time on Dagobah before heading off.. Yoda's going to teach him masterful force techniques before teaching him basics?



Thanks for the "I know you are but what am I comment" nancy, but nobody understands your piss poor arguments.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So you obviously did not get my point again. You are indeed pathetic.
Says the one who is looking like a fool because he can't shut up after getting wtfpwned.



I doubt anyone here has less knowledge than you except for maybe Noobaris.



For the millionth time, Advent provided you the sources that state that Luke was just being tortured. You look like a fool arguing them.




Wonderful, and Luke's last lesson taught was basic TK.. Man he MUST have been uber!




Thanks for not conceding an argument you lost 2 pages ago..

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have been using the term "powerful bursts of Lightning" more often now. Did you care to check my next post? No.

The bold part of your post is what I have been trying to say for a long time here but nobody checked it.

My logic stands.
Not when it is directly disproven


they were powerful enough to ressurect Darth Maul.
And we've seen strong Force Users die instantly from FL


I'm curious...what constitutes 'strong in the Force' to your honestly worthless viewpoint?

Dooku is not aiming to kill him. Try again

Palpatine is not trying to kill Yoda there. Try again

Hey, umm...you miss that Palpatine was slowly torturing him and not trying to kill him instantly?

And we have the right to tear you down for it


Tell that to the several strong Force Users Palpatine killed instantly


Lies and foolishness. It is directly stated Palpatie was slowly torturing Luke

Because Yoda is Yoda. Not because Yoda's a Jedi



What ARE you trying to say then?


He's in horrible agony? Exactly the intention of Force Lightning?

Yes. You're wrong

So? Number of hands does not mean more on less intensity. DOuble the dosage, double the pain

Actually, I can: ROTJ novelization and Complete Visual Guide expressely stated Palpatine was holding back to torture Luke slowly before he killed him


He was TORTURING LUKE with Lightning, as is its intention...that does not equal power.


He was about to die becaue Palpatine decided to torture him to death and nearly did so


Yes, we can. If Palpatine wanted to kill him from the start, he'd do it

He didn't want to kill him quickly. Notice all the taunts throughout? The short zaps? The PAUSES?


It means nothing. Shut up about it


Actually, we do know because material has expressly stated it


He survived because Vader saved him and Palpatine wanted to kill him slowly

You're a fool. It is specifically stated Palpatine minimized his own abilities there to torture Luke slowly

My point is not yet disproven LS!

Originally posted by Lightsnake
they were powerful enough to ressurect Darth Maul.
And we've seen strong Force Users die instantly from FL
What does there ressurrection capabilities have to do with there strength in the Force? Nothing.

And do mention these powerful Jedi here that have died instantly from Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm curious...what constitutes 'strong in the Force' to your honestly worthless viewpoint?
I mean't those Jedi that are heavily trained, experienced and have good knowledge of Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku is not aiming to kill him. Try again
How do you know?

He used Force Lightning on Anakin which knocked Anakin but he did not died from it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine is not trying to kill Yoda there. Try again
Palpatine is not trying to kill Yoda in that fight? Are you nuts?

OK! he initially wanted to test Yoda's capabilities but as soon as the fight went to senate, palpatine tried his best to kill Yoda. His last lightning attack on Yoda was mean't to kill him. But Yoda countered and it resulted in a blast.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hey, umm...you miss that Palpatine was slowly torturing him and not trying to kill him instantly?
And you forgot this term "Now you will be destroyed".

Palpatine was weakening Luke first and then went for the kill after a brief pause.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And we have the right to tear you down for it
And I have the right to counter back.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Tell that to the several strong Force Users Palpatine killed instantly
Strong Jedi? Provide me some more details about them and there achievements and also were they on par with Anakin ROTS, Malak, Revan, Yoda and Luke?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Lies and foolishness. It is directly stated Palpatie was slowly torturing Luke
Provide me the exact quote and link to the source.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because Yoda is Yoda. Not because Yoda's a Jedi
What kind of logic is this?

Here is my logic: Because Yoda was a powerful Jedi and knew Force Deflection.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What ARE you trying to say then?
That comment was not aimed at you. I don't need to give you explanation on this.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's in horrible agony? Exactly the intention of Force Lightning?
And he was feeling pain.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes. You're wrong
You have no clue about what you are saying.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So? Number of hands does not mean more on less intensity. DOuble the dosage, double the pain
Double dosage is done by two hands actually.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, I can: ROTJ novelization and Complete Visual Guide expressely stated Palpatine was holding back to torture Luke slowly before he killed him
Palpatine was weakening Luke first and then went for the kill after a brief pause.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was TORTURING LUKE with Lightning, as is its intention...that does not equal power.
Force Lightning is a Force Power. Try again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was about to die becaue Palpatine decided to torture him to death and nearly did so
Yes! Palpatine wanted to kill Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, we can. If Palpatine wanted to kill him from the start, he'd do it
Sorry! Palpatine was zapping Luke first to weaken him and when this was accomplished. He again zapped him to eliminate him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He didn't want to kill him quickly. Notice all the taunts throughout? The short zaps? The PAUSES?
Or Lightning does not instantly kills a strong Jedi.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It means nothing. Shut up about it
You STFU. I was not talking to you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, we do know because material has expressly stated it
Material does not matters when we have movie to judge from. Sidious was weakening Luke first and when this happened, he struck again to finish him off.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He survived because Vader saved him and Palpatine wanted to kill him slowly
There is no definite evidence that shows that palpatine wanted to kill Luke slowly. He wanted to kill him and thats it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're a fool. It is specifically stated Palpatine minimized his own abilities there to torture Luke slowly
Show me the quote and link to the source.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
99% of what you are saying is irrelevant crap, hence the repeated "so".
Since you can't understand what I am saying, it does not means that my points are irrelevant. They are related to one of issues raised in this thread. If you consider them to be irrelevant then don't bother to reply.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
While you're saying that because the person is a Jedi, he would biologically be able to withstand force attacks as opposed to non force sensitives. That's not what Advent is saying.. Sorry..
Why not ask Advent rather then me that what she mean't with this term?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Baseless and illogical assumptions.
Since you don't have any argument then only these kinds of lines can be expected from you.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And yet this isn't an Anakin vs. Obiwan thread, so thanks for more irrelevant crap.
It was point regarding Anakin's strength. You obviously have lost your mind because you can't understand a damn thing that I have mentioned here. Why not quit?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're not making any relevant points worth understanding.
Or you don't want to understand my points.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No no no you said he instantly killed them with his force attack. Stop contradicting yourself. And stop making shit up with baseless assumptions.
Yes! I said this because it was not at all a long fight. It was a very short fight.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And then he started laughing as he was torturing Luke. You enjoy arguing against facts?
What does laughing has to do with his intentions to kill Luke? Of-course he will laugh because he was sure of his victory. People enjoy moment of victories.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Because Luke spent a limited time on Dagobah before heading off.. Yoda's going to teach him masterful force techniques before teaching him basics?
Movie never showed us the full details of Luke's training. But it was clear from the comments of Yoda and Vader that Luke's training was complete. Those comments matter more.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thanks for the "I know you are but what am I comment" nancy, but nobody understands your piss poor arguments.
And I don't give a shit about your piss poor arguments.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Says the one who is looking like a fool because he can't shut up after getting wtfpwned.
Says the one who sees debates as a matter of win/loss situations.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I doubt anyone here has less knowledge than you except for maybe Noobaris.
Then why lower yourself to my level by arguing with me?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
For the millionth time, Advent provided you the sources that state that Luke was just being tortured. You look like a fool arguing them.
That torture was mean't to weaken and kill Luke.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wonderful, and Luke's last lesson taught was basic TK.. Man he MUST have been uber!
Blame Lucas and not me because he made that movie.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thanks for not conceding an argument you lost 2 pages ago..
No arguement has been lost here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My point is not yet disproven LS!
Yes it is. You are not a good debator


Oh, right, RESSURECTING someone with the Dark Side isn't a display of power...
Whatever

Rayf Ysanna. Mace Windu


Not Luke in ROTJ then


Because Palpatine's plans hinged on Anakin from the start and Dooku knew of this. From the start he wanted to convert Anakin


The initial blast? Palpatine was not trying to kill him.
Later on in the senate chamber? Yoda was BLOCKING it, for one


No, it was 'if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.'

He was torturing him the entire time. He paused a LOT and decided to kill him slowly


and you're losing horribly


Mace Windu, according to the ROTS novelization was dead almost instantly when Palp's lightning hit him.
Funny that


Link you to a book? I've provided the sources. The quote goes: something along the lines of slowly and deliberaterly torturing Luke to death.


Luke didn't


Mmhmm


That was the intention


Oh, shut up. Do you need Lucas to scream it in your ear?


Wrong. Only if the user chooses to


No. Palpatine was slowly and deliberately torturing Luke.


Umm...Palpatine was not using his most powerful lightning. Otherwise, Luke'd be ash

Slowly and horribly. He wanted him to suffer


Wrong. Palpatine was 'slowly and deliberately' torturing him. Try again


Hi, Mace! Hi, Rayf! Hi, Prophet Trio!


Well, I'm crushing your pathetic argument, so it's no wonder you're avoiding me


No. Explain why Palpatine starts by giving him small zaps, then keeps pausing while taunting him?
Materials>>>>>Your stupid opinion


Huh, according to the Complete Visual Guide, Palpatine was focusing his hate to make Luke suffer slowly and horribly before his death...

All done. You lose.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, right, RESSURECTING someone with the Dark Side isn't a display of power...
Whatever
Disciples of Ragnos ressurrected Ragnos and does this means that they were very powerful? No.

Ressurrection is related to a Dark Side ritual and not power.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Rayf Ysanna. Mace Windu
Tell me some details about Ysanna.

And Mace Windu got his hand chopped off and was in pain. Then Sidious blasted him with Lightning but even then Mace stood for a while before he fell out. It was a helpless situation for Mace. Before that Mace was countering Sidious's Lightning. Thus Windu's case is not valid.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not Luke in ROTJ then
Luke in ROTJ was not good? Please!

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because Palpatine's plans hinged on Anakin from the start and Dooku knew of this. From the start he wanted to convert Anakin
And thats why Dooku decided to throw that big crane on Obi-Wan and Anakin to crush them after fighting Yoda in Geonosis? Good try but you failed.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The initial blast? Palpatine was not trying to kill him.
Later on in the senate chamber? Yoda was BLOCKING it, for one
And Sidious said this to Yoda: "Now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side" before attacking Yoda. That initial Lightning strike was also mean't to do extreme damage to Yoda or even kill him. But Yoda survived.

And because Yoda knew how to block one.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, it was 'if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.'
This was said be Vader. Sidious said what I have mentioned before.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was torturing him the entire time. He paused a LOT and decided to kill him slowly
Sidious mean't to kill Luke. And Force Lightning is a form of torture to any living being.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and you're losing horribly
Not at all.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace Windu, according to the ROTS novelization was dead almost instantly when Palp's lightning hit him.
Funny that
It was said in a different sense. Mace did not died instantly or in 1 second from Sidious's Lightning. Your point is dead.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Link you to a book? I've provided the sources. The quote goes: something along the lines of slowly and deliberaterly torturing Luke to death.
Quotes can be twisted by some people.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Luke didn't
That comment was for Yoda and not Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mmhmm
Yeah right?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That was the intention
Pain is not an intention.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, shut up. Do you need Lucas to scream it in your ear?
Lucas's view will be acceptable.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wrong. Only if the user chooses to
I am talking about the case when user chooses to. And double bolts hitting a same object will do more damage to it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. Palpatine was slowly and deliberately torturing Luke.
In your eyes actually.

His torture was mean't to weaken and kill Luke. And the intensity in his Lightning was immense so that Luke would suffer terribly before death.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Umm...Palpatine was not using his most powerful lightning. Otherwise, Luke'd be ash
How do you know?

His lightning would not be at max but it was near max.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Slowly and horribly. He wanted him to suffer
And his intention was to weaken and kill.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wrong. Palpatine was 'slowly and deliberately' torturing him. Try again
Lightning is a torture for a living being. Palpatine's purpose was to kill Luke and he applied great intensity in his Lightning to kill Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hi, Mace! Hi, Rayf! Hi, Prophet Trio!
Mace's case is invalid.

More details are needed for Rayf for me to judge him.

Those Prophets are joke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well, I'm crushing your pathetic argument, so it's no wonder you're avoiding me
Their is no crushing here. Just a debate. Better improve your mentality.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. Explain why Palpatine starts by giving him small zaps, then keeps pausing while taunting him?
Materials>>>>>Your stupid opinion
Higher canon source > any material.

Palpatine wanted to kill Luke. He then start shooting Lightning on Luke to give him a taste of terrible pain. Then he started intensifying his Lightning to maxmimze damage on Luke and finally when Luke was weak enough. Sidious said this "now you will be destroyed" and again zapped him but it was still taking long to kill Luke. Try again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Huh, according to the Complete Visual Guide, Palpatine was focusing his hate to make Luke suffer slowly and horribly before his death...
Suffer was intensified by adding more power to his Lightning. That statement just shows a different angle of the fight.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
All done. You lose.
Those quotes only provide a different point of view and nothing else.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disciples of Ragnos ressurrected Ragnos and does this means that they were very powerful? No.
There's a difference between using a tool to resurrect somebody and being powerful enough to perform a ritual to bring back somebody.




no



He was ok but powerful? No..



No, your arguments have failed for god knows how many pages now. You posting again and again is embarassing for you.



Is that why Sidious was laughing at Yoda and waiting for him to get up? Clearly he didn't intend to kill him on the first strike, as opposed to his final lightning strike when Yoda absorbed it.





Except Sidious' lightning in DE instantly killed force sensitives, so your point is dead.





wrong



No, this is a logical pwnage..




Good god, you're the second idiot to argue against canon.


Your argument is dead but there seems to be a pattern of denial for the people on this forum who are incapable of debating.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disciples of Ragnos ressurrected Ragnos and does this means that they were very powerful? No.

Ressurrection is related to a Dark Side ritual and not power.
Prove up. Rituals still require power.

Oh, and a LOT of power revived Ragnos from the sceptre. Different circumstances


He was one of three Jedi who managed to defeat scores of Dark Jedi-the emperor's elites- on their on

Bull. He was countering with his saber. Mace wa sa powerful Jedi who died instantly


He was good. Not amazing


That was to distract Yoda. do you really think Dooku thought Yoda wouldn't stop it?


He went to hurt him, then. It was not meant to kill Yoda


No. Bullshit. "If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed." Is said by Palpatine as well


He meant to kill him, but not immediately, can you not understand this?


No. Mace died instantly. He was dead before he went out the window


Translation: They own me


Yoda knows how to block lightning, unlike Luke then


Yeah. Right

Causing pain can sure as hell be an intention.Hello, torture!


Then listen to the commentary, or read the novelizations he approved


Unless the user uses a smaller intensity on purpose.


Factually, actually

There was no need to weaken Luke from the start. Palpatine was just torturing him horribly in rage after Luke denied the Dark Side.


We've never seen Palpatine use max lightning...when not even trying, he reduced three people to charred bones and killed over a hundred people at once.


Actually, it was to torture to death


Don't you think slowly frying someone with FL is torturous? Regardless of the normal torture, cooking Luke alive slowly is torturous


"Cuz it owns me!"

Why? You'll just judge it invalid, too

Riiight....members of a powerful Sith Cult who ressurected a Sith are jokes. Right.
Oh, another Jedi who died instantly from lightning: Kol Skywalker



Since when was your goddamn interpretation canon over the EU?
Palpatine never said 'now you will be destroyed'. It was taking along time because Palpatine wanted it to take a while


Translation again: "They own me."

Lightsnake!

Mace wasn't instantly killed by sith lightning, you can quite clearly see him standing, screaming in pain for quite a few seconds before he is flung out of the building.

he's standing because he's PINNED there because he's being fried.

Novelization makes it clear that he 'falls forever' when Palpatine's 'hate struck him full on'

LeGenD, do you have some sort of mental defect? I personally enjoy your rather inept understanding of "torture". When one wants to effectively torture someone, one does not use maximum force. That would lead to a quicker death. I mean, really, how stupid would it be to want to put someone through agony and use lethal force? Kind've takes away the point, but you don't seem to get that.

You're outclassed and your points are simply squashed. There is nothing to say that Sidious was then attempting to kill Luke - given that he frequently stopped the lightning assault to gloat to him. And even his declaration of "Now young Skywalker, you will die" isn't going to hold water because we have seen what Sidious has done to people like Yoda (whose Force defense is much more potent than anything RotJ Luke has under his sleeve) and what Count Dooku has done to Anakin. Pouring lightning into a body is going to bring more force and more power than a single blast. And yet Dooku (who is far weaker than Sidious at this point in the Force) was able to knock Anakin unconscious with one blast (and Anakin's Force defense and Force connection are greater than Luke's), and RotS Sidious is much weaker than his RotJ variant.

Sidious reduced three very powerful Sith acolytes to ash with a single blast. You brought up the Disciples of Ragnos, but it is completely different. Firstly, they did not succeed in resurrecting Ragnos, but merely awakening his spirit. Secondly, there were hundreds of those dark Jedi. Thirdly, they had Ragnos's own scepter and Sith arts to use. Now, these acolytes - if they resurrected him - did it by themselves and they numbered only three. Sidious reduced them to charred skeletons with one hand in a short amount of time without any visage of strain or effort.

Then? He fries dozens of Stormtroopers simply because his drink got blasted out of his hand. Lastly? Sidious on his deathbed (means he was on the very last proverbial centimeter of life) was able to kill all of Luke's Jedi accomplices with a single blast of energy, and his physicians and dark side adepts commented that each further use of the Force brought Palpatine closer to death.

His lightning is a mile above any other Sith Lord's, and he was not using his upper limit against Luke. Period.

I should note before posting the following, but LeGenD, you should respond to all the points I've made, I couldn't help, but notice that you skirted several.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have been using the term "powerful bursts of Lightning" more often now. Did you care to check my next post? No.

Was it my obligation to read your later post? Or was the onus on you to properly word your sentences, so as they make reasonable sense when I respond to that post? Oh, wait. That's right. The latter seems to be the more obvious choice here.

Now, it's undeniable that numerous points will be repeated due to the fact that Sexy, and Lightsnake are responding to your "rebuttals" (I don't even think they deserve that title, but I'm cutting you slack), so deal with it, or like I've been saying, shut the hell up.



No, it's not. Seeing as I cared enough to check your next post (ha!), you're taking what I said, and making an inaccurate interpretation.

They aren't "naturally" more resistant, however, due to the fact that they can use the Force



And no, it doesn't.



They were Force sensitive Sith acolytes, ergo trained in the Darkside. They were powerful enough to raise Darth Maul from the dead, or create a new -- one that gave Darth Vader an immense amount of trouble, so much that he had to commit seppuku to get the win.



Depending upon the circumstances, yes it can. So, you are, as usual, wrong. Darth Sidious' lightning could annihilate someone like Master T'Chooka, for example (who was described as "strong in the Force" by the omniscient narrator), ergo whatever passes for logic in your world fails due to that.

We can deduce that the lightning Sidious can generate would be able to take down numerous foes. Even just using the Sora Bulq example, if Dooku - with one hand (therefore, less full power) - could cause a Jedi master like Sora Bulq to be rendered unconscious, then imagine what Darth Sidious, who we've seen reduce three acolytes to ash, kill a battalion of Stormtroopers (and the circumstances here imply that it wasn't at its apex of intensity), and knock the indisputably, most powerful Jedi up to RotS, Yoda unconscious for an amount of time, could do.

Indeed, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that attack. Your assumption is flawed, and all you've been doing is stating this and that, but not backing it up with evidence - whether by means of using logic, or actual source material. I, on the other hand, have done this. As well, so have Sexy, and Lightsnake.



What are you referring to? Where does he reduce someone to "bone and ash"? Even if he does, how the hell does that correlate to my point? Oh? What's that? It doesn't? I figured as much.



Yes, depending upon the wielder of the lightning themselves. If they want to torture, by all means, the lightning isn't going to be aimed to kill.

I think we've established this, however, as our prime example is Sidious, if he applied his full strength into the attack, a sub par Force user would, as I said, be dead.



Oh my Buddha, see above.



"Short time"? No, it was a long time, if we are including the fact that the blast clearly wasn't intended to kill, but only remove him from the picture he wasn't even knocked out, he was writhing in pain, and trying to recuperate after getting fried. It was a

Anyways, proof that Count Dooku was aiming to kill Anakin at that specific point? Or, at the least, poured his utmost power into the attack? Well, that's actually already been disproved by the fact he only used one hand.



Proof that Sidious was aiming to kill Yoda at that specific point? Or, at the least, poured his utmost power into the attack? Well, the former (and thus latter) is already unanswerable on your part, because we see Sidious try to flee after being Force pushed. If he wanted him dead right then, and there, he would've blasted him continuously, or elaborate on his last attack.



Proof that Sidious was aiming to kill Luke at that specific point? Or, at the least, poured his utmost power into the attack? Well, you're currently being dismantled by three of the best debaters here, and have another one of the greatest currently here telling you you've been annihilated. So, for the time being, we'll just let this discussion continue (even though the anti-LeGenD side has proved up). It's rather entertaining.



The thing is, you have no proof of the affirmative (that they were applying their full power, or trying to kill them). Skepticism is generally the default position, thus I'm telling you to prove up on that, which you've yet to do, and seem to refuse to do.



I can tell you to "shut the hell up" (learn2read) wherever, and whenever I want, bizatch. If you don't like it, go cry to your mother, and get off the board.

And, again, I'm only telling you to "shut the hell up", because you won't prove up. So, prove up or shut the hell up.



Except your point isn't backed up by viable evidence. You've provided three occasions where a "powerful Force user" was blasted, but not that they were applying their highest limit.



Prove up, or shut the hell up. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so, Limbaugh.



Prove up, or shut the hell up. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so, Limbaugh.



See above, addressed, and taken down.

Oh, so what you say is magically constituted by fact. Well, Sieg Heil to you, my friend! Please, child. You still haven't provided proof of the following:

1. That anyone in any situation you named was using their utmost power.
2. That you can see.
3. That you're competent.

Listen, I'm going to explain to you things in a demeaning manner from now on:

You. Have. Not. Backed. Up. Your. Assumptions.

Therefore, that leads me to believe

That. You. Have. No. Proof.

And thusly, are

Talking. Out. Of. Your. Ass.

Now, ditto what I've been saying: prove that Palpatine administered his apex of power into the attack during RotJ. If you don't do so, then I'd advise you not to respond, because it's only looks worse for your case.



Was that what I asked for? No. Was the comment relevant to what we were discussing, and what I was responding to? No.

I was stating that we've seen Sora Bulq knocked out, same case with Yoda, and we've seen AotC Anakin being put out of combat for a time. They all correlate to my point that if Sidious were to utilize his maximal amount of power, then Luke would've - at the very least - been knocked out.

He wasn't, therefore logic would dictate that he (Sidious) didn't.



It was sarcasm, for one, and not meant to be taken as serious as you're doing. It was more of a "wow, irrelevant, who gives a flying ****"-esque deal.

Anyways, to be on point (since every minuscule detail needs to be explained to you), Luke's scream gave indication that he was being tortured, however, they didn't give indication of what you're entire premise is based around.



So, now, you know what I did, and didn't do? Funny, see below, because I'll address the point with something I've already written regarding the situation.



Originally posted by Advent
Irrelevant. So, because he uses two hands, he must've been using a greater intensity of lightning than he could generate with one hand? No, that doesn't compute.

I can swing a baseball bat with two hands, and not use as much force as I could with one hand, if I chose to. Try again, chump change. You really cannot out debate me, so my best advice would be stop while your behind.

QED.

I find it comedic at best that you would even claim you know what "logic" is. You're asking me to prove a negative. The onus is on you to provide evidence of the affirmative.

That's logic.



I don't recall ever denying that he wasn't, but that's not the real crux of this discussion. Try actually reviewing what I write, instead of presenting a claim as if I argued against it, or believed otherwise.

What we're talking about is the culmination of his power at that point focused into the repeated, and continuous blasts.



So, you admit that you have nothing that could provide testament to what you're arguing. Good to know. Now, the problem here is: 1) it's not my job to prove the negative (that he didn't use all of his power), it's up to you to prove the positive, and 2) I have provided logic reasonings to back up my assumption. See above, see below, see previous posts. My conclusion trumps your due to my evidence that I've shown to support my side. You, on the other hand, are merely making various, blanket statements, and showing examples, but as mentioned at least a thousand times, that aren't expanded on, nor are "reasonable" in that they've been disputed properly.



I don't recall ever denying that he wasn't, but that's not the real crux of this discussion. Try actually reviewing what I write, instead of presenting a claim as if I argued against it, or believed otherwise.

What we're talking about is the culmination of his power at that point focused into the repeated, and continuous blasts.



If you would've read what I wrote, you'd notice I posted an inquiry (#2) about what you were trying to say. After that, I was merely explaining why he did not use all the power possible when administering the lightning to Luke.

Anyways, how can anyone understand what you write when you cannot even speak proper English? "Did not understood"? Dumbass.

Next time, try responding to the numbered points, instead of - again - making a blanket statement that is supposed to cover it all. As well, you'll now need to respond to what I wrote on #3, due to the fact that it covers my premise, and firmly disproves your belief.



Dharma H. Buddha on toast. Will you please just one time be able to comprehend what I've written? Do I need to decipher everything I write? It's not as if I'm speaking in binary.

You said that the reason he recovered in mere seconds was because of "the advantage of the Force", I responded by basically saying that AotC Anakin, who's more skillful, took light years to recuperate in comparison. Now, not only was Anakin blasted by Count Dooku, who Sidious is far superior to as of RotJ, but he was electrocuted with a single hand.

So, it stands to reason then that, if Sidious were to implement the summit of his efficacy into the lightning, Luke wouldn't have gotten up in mere seconds as he did.



Originally posted by Lightsnake
He didn't want to kill him quickly. Notice all the taunts throughout? The short zaps? The PAUSES?

You're a fool. It is specifically stated Palpatine minimized his own abilities there to torture Luke slowly



So, this is now an inquisition, I suppose. Seriously speaking, though, debating has become a hobby of mine. So, naturally, I like to debate, and like to debunk many of the idiotic statements, and assumptions here. Point in case: you.



I see what you're saying, but that doesn't necessarily justify the overall point. If you bothered to read the real life example I gave, you'd notice why what you're insinuating isn't absolute.

Taking another example, yet again, this time read it, instead of thinking you actually have a damn clue of what you're talking about:

Let's say we were back in the Edo period, for example, and I'm a samurai, armed with a katana. Now, if wanted to, I could make a side swiping attack (lightning) on my opponent more powerful using one arm compared to using two. I can do this by applying more force, and speed into my swing (intensity), and when using two hands, I can use a considerably less amount of the aforesaid elements, and generate a weaker version of the attack, even though, I'm using two hands to swing the weapon.

This is all if I wanted to. Now, it's clearly established that Palpatine was torturing Luke, so why would he want to use all of his power? He definitely wouldn't, because he'd die, or at worst, be in a comatose after the first surge.



Except I'm backing it up. That's the difference between you, and me. Also, if you want to parrot what I'm saying to you, and attempt to spin it around on me, I'd advise that you at least counter what I write, and make sense.



Classic defense. I laughed out loud when I read this. If this is the case with all debates that aren't completely definitive, then there's no point to constructing arguments, at all.

But, then you take into account that the versus forum works in a way that whichever position is more sensible, provides logical deduction, and reasoning is right until disputed with something more rational, and there you have it. As ways work, my point of view is seemingly correct.

Let me take what you've said, and tell you that almost nothing, unless seen in the movies, or said by Lucas is indisputable (even some things in the movies, which can be interpreted, though, aren't irrefutable). For all we know, Lucas envisions someone like Qrrrl Toq as more powerful than Exar Kun. But, since he hasn't stated anything like that, or even alluded to it, we discuss it, and debate it.

Oh, and just for kicks, you aren't George Lucas, either.



Translation: I cannot outsmart, outwit, or out debate you on any points, because I'm uninformed, misinformed, and an idiot. I'll resort to saying that I don't need to "waste my time on you", but in reality, I don't want to waste time on looking like a complete fool at every turn.

P.S. You don't have manners!



I most certainly do possess the ability to remain cordial, ask Lightsnake (at times, lol), Darth Sexy, Gideon, Subjekt, and the like. I may get smart, and insult my opposition, but it's due to the fact that I'm tired of the continuous amount of users who actually think they're right, when they don't even know what the hell they're talking about. It happens every single day, and I guarantee there's not a single thread that doesn't contain it.

Anyways, I'm not going to justify myself further. I have no need to, if you can't handle the heat, either get the hell out of the forum, or don't make asinine statements. The Terms of Service for KMC do not contain "be polite". It's not a prerequisite, so don't expect it.



No, "great displays of power" would be these:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8889/sorapwnedye0.th.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8281/survivedapp43of8.th.png
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/866/sidiouspwnstk0.th.png
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3gO_cJjBh-k
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DvpMQ3FxKLk

What he did to Luke was nothing like that. It was causing pain, yippy-ki-ya! I'm not going to expand further, the pictures, and videos (at their respective lightning segments) speak for themselves in comparison to what happened in RotJ.



No, Luke was able to live, because Palpatine didn't use his utmost power. And I'm not just "stating" that, I've already given what my side needed to be able to claim that. No need to repeat myself, or copy and paste.

No, he could not have been generating the maximum of his power, or else Luke would've been dead. Also, when you say "Sidious' lightning was near his greatest" (fixed grammatical errors), do you mean that he was executing the highest amount of power into his attack? Or that Sidious' Force power, during RotJ, was close to his peak?

The latter is correct, but completely irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if he was at his most powerful point in power, because he could still use a very weak amount. The former isn't correct, and has been addressed, and has not been proved by your side. So, quit stating it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well! his defensive abilities were not highly developed by ROTS. Yoda managed to deflect Sidious's Lightning because his defensive abilities were strong.

Luke Skywalker didn't even appear in RotS, dolt (and yes, I already knew that was yet another error, however, I love making you look like a fool). Now, to get back on point, I'll state: irrelevant misdirection.

You said: "The only problem was that he did not knew how to deflect the Lightning with his hands". I rebutted that, and thus was leaving you with the option of making the case that you supposedly can construct (I already know that's bullshit, though).

What the **** does Yoda have to do with Luke's endurance? Whoops! Looks like you don't even know what you're arguing against, or what you even said.



Try, "one of the best debaters". And no, I'm not trying to boast, too many people have named me as one of the best (ever). But, yeah, addressed this already.



It doesn't matter. I'm not saying "because the magnitude was large, it's super special awesome!", I'm saying because the magnitude was so great, and because he instantly killed a battalion of Stormtroopers, it's super special awesome. Since it branched out on so many different levels, the power wouldn't be as great if it were only focused on a single person, seeing as they'd be assaulted with all that power on a singular level.

So, try again, chump change.



That wasn't the point, see above, Limbaugh.



Right, so you're saying with no formal training, and a few years at best to even train. His training is "complete". Riiight. You're basing this off the fact Darth Vader said it? Wow, I hate to break the news to you, but he's a fallible, third party character, and has no knowledge of what Luke underwent, so his dialogue isn't proof.

If his training was really complete, why did he swing his lightsaber wildly, like a baseball bat? Why did he feed into the Darkside (he was trained to be a Jedi, so clearly his training wasn't complete)? Why wasn't he considered a Jedi master? Why isn't he considered by George Lucas to be "as skillful as the young Jedi of the prequels", or "as acrobatic", WHY! OH WHYY-YYY! You gotta' do me like that?

His training was far from being fulfilled in actuality. I love how Anakin, who's got more potential than Luke, formal instruction, and years more of it, still hadn't entirely completed his training in RotS, after ten years, yet Luke, after a couple years, at most, was done with all of his tutoring. Likewise, Obi-Wan, even as TPM, when he had 20 odd years of experience, was still a padawan.





Then you're mistaken. There's no chance in hell that Luke's defenses were greater than Sora's. My god, I've already provided short reasons why, and the more logical perspective points to Sora being more well equipped to defend against lightning, and having more strength in the Force, at that point. He's demonstrated greater Force power than Luke, such as being able to Force push Mace Windu, and the like.



Except he did, and I can, and I did.



Originally posted by Lightsnake
The initial blast? Palpatine was not trying to kill him.
Later on in the senate chamber? Yoda was BLOCKING it, for one

And for two, he got blasted aback, even doing such.



Irrelevant. We've seen Yoda survive a fall from a mountainous height in RotS during the Senate Chamber duel, and still be conscious. So, your point holds no water. I could also bring up that AotC Anakin was as durable as (if not more than) Luke's, yet he was out for nearly two minutes from Count Dooku. I could also bring up that Sora Bulq had to have the endurance of a neophyte farmboy, yet he was knocked out cold.

Furthermore, I could also bring to attention the fact that Yoda was "very old", yet displays far more athleticism, and acrobatics during his duels than RotJ Luke could've dreamed of, because he uses the Force to do such. Indeed, your point is moot.



Another classic defense. It doesn't matter if RotJ, or the entire OT was made in the Dark Ages, the movies are canon, and thus what we see, is what is. If you really want me to get into further details, just ask, and I'm seriously not kidding -- any point you so much as attempt to make will get demolished. But, if you want to argue against canon, and prove your idiocy even farther, then by all means, do so.



When contrasted to the top dogs of the PT? He's a thousand zillion, ****ing light years away from them.



Another classic defense. It doesn't matter if RotJ, or the entire OT was made in the Dark Ages, the movies are canon, and thus what we see, is what is. If you really want me to get into further details, just ask, and I'm seriously not kidding -- any point you so much as attempt to make will get demolished. But, if you want to argue against canon, and prove your idiocy even farther, then by all means, do so.

Really, though, the entire rebuttal will consist of: the movies are the highest form of canon, ergo Luke swings his lightsaber like a madman in RotJ, undeniably, etc. Regarding the following two statement you made after this one: they're irrelevant, stupid (for lack of a better word), and I don't feel the need to address them, so I won't.



No shit, but nowhere near his upper limit, and definitely not the greatest amount possible, which was your original statement that you defended.

Edit:

And I could give a shit less if you believe that "you've addressed these" or "I expanded on my points" already through dealing with Lightsnake, and Sexy (plus, I know that you cannot properly reply to anything, anyways). I didn't have time to post this yesterday when I wrote it in MS Word, so it's posted now. Deal with it.

Oh, and Gideon, nice post, my love.

And, I hate to quadruple post, especially just to make a correction, and add on, but oh well, sue me the time limit expired:



No, it's not. Seeing as I cared enough to check your next post (ha!), you're taking what I said, and making an inaccurate interpretation.

They aren't "naturally" more resistant, however, due to the fact that they can use the Force to amplify, or heal themselves, they can withstand the effects more than a normal being. However, for example, if they were sleeping, and someone used stealth to sneak up on them, and blasted them with Force lightning, I doubt they could do anything.

Sexy's inference of what I wrote was correct. Yours? Not so much.

And, an example of someone who is considered relatively strong in the Force, as Lightsnake pointed out, Rayf Ysanna (who successfully freed the Ysanna tribe leaders who had been frozen in carbonite by Palpatine, along with Kam, and Luke, as well as been contributory in saving Jaina, and Jacen -- clearly he was no shoddy Force user). He was killed by a single blast of Force lightning by Emporer Palpatine, and this was when Palpatine's body had been weak, as you can see in the following panel:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3482/ruthlessboy6ksk3.th.png

Owned.

You've outdone me. Again. My sweet, you're making it difficult for me to look good, lmao. I believe I can successfully award you "Ownage Post of the past Three Hundred Millennia".

Put it on your wall, beside my picture.

Oh good lord. Find a chat room you two.

Oh, Advent, darling? Just one thing: The one narrarating the T'Chooka bit is his padawan Flynn Kybo, not the narrarator