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http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/25/MNG2DOATDK1.DTL




Read very carefully.

"are welcome as long as they understand this is our community,"

hmm not sure about where you live but you can't own a community here, anyone who is anyone can live anywhere they wish to, if they can afford it lol.

Your title is misleading. Other than that "So?" is the only thought that really comes to mind.

"Identity crisis: as STRAIGHTS move in, some fear loss of the area's character."

Quit your b*tching. It was a stupid article, you have a stupid response.

Originally posted by FeceMan
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/25/MNG2DOATDK1.DTL




Read very carefully.



So?

Originally posted by FeceMan
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/25/MNG2DOATDK1.DTL




Read very carefully.




And your point is ?

Haha, haha, God I hate me.


Though, I still don't quite get your point, what did you wish to achieve by changing the quotes?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha, haha, God I hate me.


Though, I still don't quite get your point, what did you wish to achieve by changing the quotes?


His point is weak, but I get it....



Homosexuals should cut that shit out....."heterosexuals moving in our community"

I guess that means our parents shouldn't visit us then



I refuse to support hypocrisy of any sort. Whether it be from Christian Conservative freaks, or my gay-happy-homo orgy butt buddies....

That article is fkn retarted, and is throwing back what Conservatives have thrown at us....two wrongs do not make a right.

Did these fearful homos ever figure that maybe the heterosexuals who move in, have no problem with homosexuals ? IF they did maybe they wouldn't move in....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
His point is weak, but I get it....



Homosexuals should cut that shit out....."heterosexuals moving in our community"

I guess that means our parents shouldn't visit us then



I refuse to support hypocrisy of any sort. Whether it be from Christian Conservative freaks, or my gay-happy-homo orgy butt buddies....

That article is fkn retarted, and is throwing back what Conservatives have thrown at us....two wrongs do not make a right.

Did these fearful homos ever figure that maybe the heterosexuals who move in, have no problem with homosexuals ? IF they did maybe they wouldn't move in....

No, you don't understand. What was his point in changing the quotes to mislead the reader?

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, you don't understand. What was his point in changing the quotes to mislead the reader?



I think Feceman is under the assumption that while we Liberals will be angered over the thought of Conservative Christians not welcoming Homosexual residents into thier community, we wouldn't care if Homosexuals didn't welcome Heterosexuals into their's.


I think it was a desparate attempt to get us to see the hypocrisy of this article, so he switched the text around so we can have a nostalgic reminder of the hypocrisy that you and I detest.

He didn't have to do that....I see the hypocristy of the two of Castro, and I do not condone it.


*Note to Feceman*- just because I am bisexual does not mean I will defend another bisexual/homosexual if I feel they did something wrong.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think Feceman is under the assumption that while we Liberals will be angered over the thought of Conservative Christians not welcoming Homosexual residents into thier community, we wouldn't care if Homosexuals didn't welcome Heterosexuals into their's.


I think it was a desparate attempt to get us to see the hypocrisy of this article, so he switched the text around so we can have a nostalgic reminder of the hypocrisy that you and I detest.

He didn't have to do that....I see the hypocristy of the two of Castro, and I do not condone it.


*Note to Feceman*- just because I am bisexual does not mean I will defend another bisexual/homosexual if I feel they did something wrong.

That was idiotic though. I am sure most people read the quotes as what he saw as important and commented on that without further reading that long ass text (I did). So basically we thought it was about gays not being too welcome in a community. Now the thing is if he had posted the correct quotes there would have been a similar reaction...at least on my part. So this whole set up fails immensely.

I found that rather annoying actually.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That was idiotic though. I am sure most people read the quotes as what he saw as important and commented on that without further reading that long ass text (I did). So basically we thought it was about gays not being too welcome in a community. Now the thing is if he had posted the correct quotes there would have been a similar reaction...at least on my part. So this whole set up fails immensely.

I found that rather annoying actually.


So did I...which was why I called it a "desperate attempt"

Its another pathetic attempt by the majority to misconstrue strengthening a minority as anti-equality or reverse discrimination.

Originally posted by Alliance
Its another pathetic attempt by the majority to misconstrue strengthening a minority as anti-equality or reverse discrimination.


True that, true that....it's like when white people complain about racism

Right, because we all know that straight white people can't be discriminated against.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Right, because we all know that straight white people can't be discriminated against.


They are hardly ever

"I'm not anti-black, I'm just pro-white"

Whatever "positions" you choose to engage in are your own affair, Urizen.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Whatever "positions" you choose to engage in are your own affair, Urizen.


droolio NOW YOU'RE TALKN MY LANGUAGE

I think the gays need to shut up, and I don't think the city should shell out a dime to preserve the neighborhood's gay culture.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I think the gays need to shut up, and I don't think the city should shell out a dime to preserve the neighborhood's gay culture.


I agree



Gays should just stick to doing porn...it's what we're good at

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Right, because we all know that straight white people can't be discriminated against.

Not true, but white people have been using this arguement for decades. We don't wan't gays or interracial couples or latinos or blacks or the irish living in our town becuase it will destroy the fabric of our society.

As I said, its a stupid article and not worth publishing. But people, especially those who fit in the category of majority need to give those in the minority some breathing room. Equality is not achieved by leaving a broken system alone. It may require a little bit of effort.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I think the gays need to shut up, and I don't think the city should shell out a dime to preserve the neighborhood's gay culture.

I don't think the gays need to shut up. I think the gays need to be louder. I think they need to scream from a soapbox.

But not about this.

I know a lot of straight people who live in the Castro. Why is that? Because it's the safest district in the San Francisco metro area. I've never heard anyone talk about "keeping the straights out". That's not to say that some gay people don't want to keep the Castro as a safe haven for homosexuals to operate on their own terms. But those terms are not what most people on this forum will think. It isn't keeping them out because we like to dress in leather chaps with no ass in them or because we want to know when we see a person in a dress they're really a man. It's because they would like to know they can go to push their kids in strollers without having bigots verbally abuse them.

And I can assure you, the people speaking most loudly is the "straights" who've moved into the Castro and prefer that they and their kids not have to see two men holding hands or kissing each other across a street side cafe table. If they don't like it, they can move back to the tenderloin where crack whores hide dope in their vaginas and innocent people get their heads smashed open with a broken beer bottle.

The most interesting thing about SF is the distinct districts. If the city wants to drop some money, don't worry about the gays in the Castro or the straights from Noe Hill...worry about the trash in the tender that have turned that district into an open sewer.

Oh, you foolish ones; how long will you delight in your folly?

My intent in making this thread was to demonstrate the double-standard of society in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but you are blind and lack in discernment.

No. I got it. I just think your point is stupid. Didn't you get my arguments? Apparently not.

Please don't be an ass.

Originally posted by Alliance
Please don't be an ass.
Pot, meet Kettle.

Excuse me, but I didn't call everyone else on the forum a fool.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Oh, you foolish ones; how long will you delight in your folly?

Come on man, everyone got what you were saying.

Originally posted by Alliance
Not true, but white people have been using this arguement for decades. We don't wan't gays or interracial couples or latinos or blacks or the irish living in our town becuase it will destroy the fabric of our society.

As I said, its a stupid article and not worth publishing. But people, especially those who fit in the category of majority need to give those in the minority some breathing room. Equality is not achieved by leaving a broken system alone. It may require a little bit of effort.

what do gays,ir couples, latinos, blacks and irish people do to destroy the fabric of some one's community?

i can't see why a person who is gay would want to live among people who are raising kids and are married...i don't get it, seems like people who are into "family" lifestyle would want to live among those with similar interests, that's why most families live close together.

Originally posted by Oncewhite

i can't see why a person who is gay would want to live among people who are raising kids and are married...i don't get it, seems like people who are into "family" lifestyle would want to live among those with similar interests, that's why most families live close together.

Are you defending segregation on accident or are you just "old school"?

Originally posted by Oncewhite
i can't see why a person who is gay would want to live among people who are raising kids and are married...i don't get it, seems like people who are into "family" lifestyle would want to live among those with similar interests, that's why most families live close together.


Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But those terms are not what most people on this forum will think. It isn't keeping them out because we like to dress in leather chaps with no ass in them or because we want to know when we see a person in a dress they're really a man. It's because they would like to know they can go to push their kids in strollers without having bigots verbally abuse them.

grow up little girl.

I suppose that out of all the ways Feceman could release his bigotry, this is probably the least confrontational way.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think Feceman is under the assumption that while we Liberals will be angered over the thought of Conservative Christians not welcoming Homosexual residents into thier community, we wouldn't care if Homosexuals didn't welcome Heterosexuals into their's.


I think it was a desparate attempt to get us to see the hypocrisy of this article, so he switched the text around so we can have a nostalgic reminder of the hypocrisy that you and I detest.

He didn't have to do that....I see the hypocristy of the two of Castro, and I do not condone it.


*Note to Feceman*- just because I am bisexual does not mean I will defend another bisexual/homosexual if I feel they did something wrong.
Anything I write is never desperate. Again, this was tongue-in-cheek.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That was idiotic though. I am sure most people read the quotes as what he saw as important and commented on that without further reading that long ass text (I did). So basically we thought it was about gays not being too welcome in a community. Now the thing is if he had posted the correct quotes there would have been a similar reaction...at least on my part. So this whole set up fails immensely.

I found that rather annoying actually.
I don't much care.
Originally posted by Alliance
Its another pathetic attempt by the majority to misconstrue strengthening a minority as anti-equality or reverse discrimination.
Uh, no. Tongue-in-cheek. Jocular in nature.

Originally posted by Oncewhite

i can't see why a person who is gay would want to live among people who are raising kids and are married...i don't get it, seems like people who are into "family" lifestyle would want to live among those with similar interests, that's why most families live close together.

Oh dear God. Oh the humanity.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Anything I write is never desperate. Again, this was tongue-in-cheek.

I don't much care.

Uh, no. Tongue-in-cheek. Jocular in nature. You expected everyone to JM.

"So?"

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

"So?"

What?

- FO!!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You expected everyone to JM.

"So?"
JMing--she's a verb?--would be something like:

"i beleve homosekshuality is rong and they shuldnt be allowed to live in houses i am jew but i lvoe teh new testiment"

Wait, so San Fransisco will no longer be a breeding ground for gays and hippies?

Seriously, that city died a long time ago if you ask me

Originally posted by FeceMan
JMing--she's a verb?--would be something like:

"i beleve homosekshuality is rong and they shuldnt be allowed to live in houses i am jew but i lvoe teh new testiment"

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wait, so San Fransisco will no longer be a breeding ground for gays and hippies?

Seriously, that city died a long time ago if you ask me

San Francisco will always be a breeding ground for gays and hippies. And now that Nacey Pelosi is the speaker of the house, we're going to be coming for your cities too. So far, outside San Francisco, we've just been living under rocks and behind dumpsters. But, now we're coming for your children, and we have the full backing of the government to boot.

Hahaha!


Evangelical Christians should re-read the Bible -

Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals, and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals.
It's not that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.

Originally posted by Alliance
Not true, but white people have been using this arguement for decades. We don't wan't gays or interracial couples or latinos or blacks or the irish living in our town becuase it will destroy the fabric of our society.

As I said, its a stupid article and not worth publishing. But people, especially those who fit in the category of majority need to give those in the minority some breathing room. Equality is not achieved by leaving a broken system alone. It may require a little bit of effort.
the irish?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the irish?

There used to be a HUGE anti-Irish sentiment in the US, I believe mostly during the 1800s.

Homophobes are insecure with themselves and their sexuality.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Hahaha!


Evangelical Christians should re-read the Bible -

Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals, and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals.
It's not that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
Fail.
Originally posted by BlackC@
Homophobes are insecure with themselves and their sexuality.
Fail.

Racists are insecure with themselves and their skin color.

Originally posted by Lana
There used to be a HUGE anti-Irish sentiment in the US, I believe mostly during the 1800s.
but not anymore.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the irish?

As Lana said, there was a huge anti-Irish sentiment in the US and UK in the 1800s. Signs in the US read "Irish need not apply" (meaning that if you were Irish, you would not be employed/even interviewed for a job.

In England, the Irish were also referred to as "Irish Negros." They were treated as a racial par with African races: stupid, primitive, and a social disease in the minds of many at the time.

Why do I bring this up? Certain movements in American society have always protested some groups. After being beaten back by intelligent thought for several generations, they accept the old "abomination" and find a new one. Repeat process indefinitely.

History teaches us many things.

and it tends to repeat itself.

Often too perfectly.

well, i am a quarter irish. should i be worried if i visit the UK?

Err, being as I'm half Irish and have been there a couple of times, as well as having family members who live there that are full-blooded Irish...no. Note that Alliance and I both said that that was largely in the 1800s.

well, i am pretty proud of my irish/german heritage.

Many people are very proud of thier sexuality.

Originally posted by Alliance
Many people are very proud of thier sexuality.

Which they really shouldn't be

I mean its not an accomplishment, it's not somthing that they have strived their entire lives to achieve

Seriously when's the last time you saw a straight parade? Never. Because most straight people know nobody gives a crap.

I don't understand why gay people find the need to go out and annoy the crap out of everyone with their stupid parades. Seriously, nobody cares that they're gay.

We dont need straight parades because no one ever takes shit for being straight.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I don't understand why gay people find the need to go out and annoy the crap out of everyone with their stupid parades. Seriously, nobody cares that they're gay.

Yeah. Please, are you really that ignorant of the situation? If people can't be treated equally be thier government, you really thing society treats the equally?

Examine the military, the workplace, the home, homosexuals are disatvanged ro descriminated against across the board. I don't recall strainghts being beaten to death because they were straight.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Which they really shouldn't be

I mean its not an accomplishment, it's not somthing that they have strived their entire lives to achieve

Seriously when's the last time you saw a straight parade? Never. Because most straight people know nobody gives a crap.


I imagine if heterosexuals were denied equallity or rights, they would be holding parades as well. And I'd like to see your average straight guy be accused of being a homosexual and see what his reaction would be. Do you think he'd just say "whatever dude, I'm not gay" or would he be insulted and take it personally?




Originally posted by Grimm22
I don't understand why gay people find the need to go out and annoy the crap out of everyone with their stupid parades. Seriously, nobody cares that they're gay.

If nobody cares, then their parades shouldn't "annoy the crap out" of anybody. Least of all you. I mean if you don't care, then why open your mouth about the situation at all?

He said he didn't care that they were gay, not that he didn't care about the parades.

And I don't approve of the parades, either. I think that if you want to be treated equally, you should act as if you are an equal. Don't have parades or pride months. Just be who you are, because you shouldn't be treated any different.

Except homosexuals aren't treated equally.

Do you complain about Black history month too? Or the St. Patty's day parade?

Originally posted by Kinneary
He said he didn't care that they were gay, not that he didn't care about the parades.

And I don't approve of the parades, either. I think that if you want to be treated equally, you should act as if you are an equal. Don't have parades or pride months. Just be who you are, because you shouldn't be treated any different.

Would you say the same about black history month?

edit: sorry, I didn't mean to bring up the same point.

hehe. beat ya.

yeah. I shouldn't have been distracted by this gay pride parade taking place outside. But, it's hard not to look at them with all the effort they make to get straight guys like me to look at them. What a spectacle! All this drawing attention to themselves is kind of turning me on.

Yes. I do the same thing about Black History Month.

And St. Patrick's day is an Irish holiday, not a holiday for the Irish.

Originally posted by Kinneary
And I don't approve of the parades, either. I think that if you want to be treated equally, you should act as if you are an equal. Don't have parades or pride months. Just be who you are, because you shouldn't be treated any different.

No one cares if you approve. I don't approve of gay pride parades. I've been saying that on here for years. What you approve of or don't approve of is of no concern to anyone else. There are plenty of gay people out there who do approve. If you don't want to see a gay man on a float that resembles a set from the Wizard of Oz, then keep walking. And what happens when gays try to act like equals? Their efforts are met with outrage and proposed bills to make their "equality" illegal.

Actually, when was the last time you saw a gay pride parade?

Originally posted by Kinneary
Yes. I do the same thing about Black History Month.

And St. Patrick's day is an Irish holiday, not a holiday for the Irish.

So, when women marched in the sufferage movement, or the black panthers marched to get equality or when you and your military buddies get together and march past a platform with a general on it, you think you're not flaunting your difference? Difference is the whole ****ing point.

What's the point in all your military pomp and pagentry? The people of the United States aren't protected by your ability to keep in step with the guy beside you in your military pride parade.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yeah. Please, are you really that ignorant of the situation? If people can't be treated equally be thier government, you really thing society treats the equally?

Examine the military, the workplace, the home, homosexuals are disatvanged ro descriminated against across the board. I don't recall strainghts being beaten to death because they were straight.

So that gives them the right to block traffic so they can wear their rainbow colored pajamas and annoy the crap out of everyone?

All it really does it make people hate gays

Originally posted by Grimm22
So that gives them the right to block traffic so they can wear their rainbow colored pajamas and annoy the crap out of everyone?

No, the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States does; it is the right to peaceable assembly, and it is guaranteed to every American.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Yes. I do the same thing about Black History Month.

And St. Patrick's day is an Irish holiday, not a holiday for the Irish.

Thats not what St. Patty's day started as. So please, get over yourself.

Originally posted by Grimm22
So that gives them the right to block traffic so they can wear their rainbow colored pajamas and annoy the crap out of everyone?

All it really does it make people hate gays

Well you can't even seem to grasp the situation.

Hypothetical: "I really wish black would just stay indoors, everytime I see them and their blackness, I'm remind that there are black people which just makes me hate them more."

Thats essentially what you are saying.

{edit, sorry dp}

Originally posted by Alliance
Well you can't even seem to grasp the situation.

Hypothetical: "I really wish black would just stay indoors, everytime I see them and their blackness, I'm remind that there are black people which just makes me hate them more."

Thats essentially what you are saying.
To be fair, I haven't been following the conversation closely.

However, that is a horrible, horrible mischaracterization of his view.

Originally posted by Grimm22
So that gives them the right to block traffic so they can wear their rainbow colored pajamas and annoy the crap out of everyone?

All it really does it make people hate gays

What gives them the right? The same thing that gives anybody the right to march, to gather. If protesters can have a parade, if a bunch of people on Christmas can have a parade, or St. Patrick's day or whatever then gays can have a parade.

Here in Australia at any rate the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is seen as an event by many - something about it being the largest of its kind in the Southern Hemisphere. It happens at night, and I am told a lot of tourists attend - including apparently a lot of US tourists.

And I guess it is a nice change for people hating because a parade blocks a road as opposed to hating for other stupid reasons.

Christmas parades annoy me. Events in public parks annoy me. Roadworks annoy me. Anything that disrupts traffic at peak hours annoys me. At least gay and lesbian Mardi Gras that I'm aware of happen at night during off-peak traffic.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
So, when women marched in the sufferage movement, or the black panthers marched to get equality
Marching for equality is one thing, marching as part of a pride parade is something different. Early gay marches focused on equality and gay rights, now most parades resemble Mardi Gras rather than a march for equality, such as those taken part in by blacks and women. Granted there are still sometimes politics and educational value attached the to parades, that message is all but drowned out at the event.


Marching in the military originated hundreds of years ago when those formations were the type used on the battleground, and were chosen because of it allowed a quick and easy way to move troops from one place to another (the most efficient way to move a large group of people is in formation). Now marching is taught to the military as a way to instill discipline (and trust me, it takes a fair amount of it) and make recruits work as a team. When done in front of a flag officer, it shows, as I said earlier, that unit's discipline and cohesiveness, something you want your flag officer to recognize in you. It doesn't show how we're 'different.'

Learn your history.

As far as military pride parades, it is simply not the same. Why? Because you have a choice to be in the military. It's an accomplishment. Blacks, whites, yellows, christians, muslims, and jews all celebrate something they've done for the common good. Being gay or black or white is not an accomplishment. It just is.

And, if you're wondering, no, I would not participate in a military pride parade. I think the idea is pretty stupid.


I think that gays have a way to go before they are treated equally. But I don't think that showing they're not the same is the way to go about it. I don't expect european pride parades, straight parades, or any other kind of parade in which you flaunt something that you have no control over. That's like me participating in a blonde hair parade. It's pointless.


It didn't start as an Irish holiday...? It didn't start as a religious holiday...? Because I can honestly tell you for sure what it didn't start as, and that's an Irish pride holiday.

Originally posted by Grimm22
So that gives them the right to block traffic so they can wear their rainbow colored pajamas and annoy the crap out of everyone?

All it really does it make people hate gays

Traffic. Is that the best you can come up with. No, blocking of traffic does not make people hate gays. Some kind of superiority complex, and the idea that one should be concerned with whom the other has sex with, does.

I live in Brighton, UK. Its a gay capital of Europe. The ratio here of gay and straight is 50-50.
Being gay here is NOT an issue. And maybe because I lived here too long and arguments and discussions like this annoy me -

Noone cares where gay people live and in what neighbourhood. Brighton is full of gay people yet if you want to buy a house here, you better have at least half a million your pocket.
Brighton is at places more expencive than London. It is expencive, classy, clean and the crime is very low.
If you wanna leave with 50% of gay people - thats what you will get, and any consideration of ''lack of morals'' where gay live is nulled by a living example!

Gay parade, thus, is a celebration of gayness and gay people and noone is ANNOYED by traffic blocking, because gay parade usually happen during weekends, in summer, and it usually happens on a big hill with lots of booze, food, music and fun.

I don't know. Maybe gay parade where you live happens at 3pm monday afternoon in the middle of highway.

there are pride parades all the time. not just gay pride.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Marching for equality is one thing, marching as part of a pride parade is something different.

Have you ever been to a pride parade?

Originally posted by Kinneary
Marching in the military originated hundreds of years ago


Learn your history.

It's not a matter of it's history. These days it's just not necessary. It doesn't do anything towards serving the purpose of the military. It's just a pointless military tradition.

Originally posted by Kinneary
As far as military pride parades, it is simply not the same.

How would it not be the same? An anything pride parade is the same.

Originally posted by Kinneary
And, if you're wondering, no, I would not participate in a military pride parade. I think the idea is pretty stupid.

Of course you do. Because there's no reason for someone not to be proud of their involvment in the military. Being in the military is just about the most patriotic thing one can do for their country. Being gay is the antithesis of good american patriotism. But I'm willing to bet you wouldn't insist on going to work on a military holiday, would you?


Originally posted by Kinneary
I think that gays have a way to go before they are treated equally.

There's a shocker. Maybe that's because people like you don't treat gays with equality.

Originally posted by Kinneary
But I don't think that showing they're not the same is the way to go about it. I don't expect european pride parades, straight parades, or any other kind of parade in which you flaunt something that you have no control over. That's like me participating in a blonde hair parade. It's pointless.

As soon as it becomes illegal for people to be European, blonde or straight I'll agree.


Originally posted by Kinneary
It didn't start as an Irish holiday...? It didn't start as a religious holiday...? Because I can honestly tell you for sure what it didn't start as, and that's an Irish pride holiday.

It doesn't matter what it started out as, it matters what it is now. And right now it's an Irish pride parade.

I've been to one in 2005. It was a gay pride march, followed by a picnic and sports activities. The BBQ was fine and a great way for them to get together. And hell, they're just fun. Disrupting traffic with banners and begging people to look at them I had a problem with.


Tradition in the military is pointless? Perhaps tradition at Wal-Mart is pointless, but when you're separated from your wife, children, and you're putting your life on the line, a lot of people find comfort in it. There's no real 'purpose' in giving a twenty-one gun salute at a military member's funeral either. But it's our tradition, a way of showing respect for those that have died. Tradition is a big part of military life, and most military members will tell you that.


Then that in itself shows the fallacy of your logic. Having pride in the fact you're willing to sacrifice your life for the greater good and having pride in the fact that your hair is blonde are not, in any way, the same thing. And if you think that they are, then you are severly mistaken.


If you really want to know, I went to work on Christmas Eve, New Years Day, and Martin Luthor King day this year. And those were 24 hour work days.

I'm sorry, what was the point you were trying to make?


How does thinking no one should have a pride parade equate to me not treating them equally? I'm rather confused about that.


Being gay is illegal?


Hardly. It's an excuse for people to get drunk. The Irish are only the mascots.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I've been to one in 2005. It was a gay pride march, followed by a picnic and sports activities. The BBQ was fine and a great way for them to get together. And hell, they're just fun. Disrupting traffic with banners and begging people to look at them I had a problem with.

Well, then you've been to one more pride parade than I have.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Tradition in the military is pointless? Perhaps tradition at Wal-Mart is pointless, but when you're separated from your wife, children, and you're putting your life on the line, a lot of people find comfort in it. There's no real 'purpose' in giving a twenty-one gun salute at a military member's funeral either. But it's our tradition, a way of showing respect for those that have died. Tradition is a big part of military life, and most military members will tell you that.

Well, most pride parades take place at the same time every year. They are a tradition. And beyond that, you aren't going to get anything out of a pride parade since you aren't gay. And I don't get anything out of a 21 gun salute. So, if one is pointless in your opinion and one is pointless in my opinion, then we should get rid of both?

Originally posted by Kinneary
Then that in itself shows the fallacy of your logic. Having pride in the fact you're willing to sacrifice your life for the greater good and having pride in the fact that your hair is blonde are not, in any way, the same thing. And if you think that they are, then you are severly mistaken.

So, the things in which you take pride are more valid than something I take pride in? (and don't get your government issued underware in a wad, I'm only playing the devil's advocate)


Originally posted by Kinneary
If you really want to know, I went to work on Christmas Eve, New Years Day, and Martin Luthor King day this year. And those were 24 hour work days.

I'm sorry, what was the point you were trying to make?

My point is that you wouldn't refuse a day off, despite thinking the reason you have it off is pointless.


Originally posted by Kinneary
How does thinking no one should have a pride parade equate to me not treating them equally? I'm rather confused about that.

Because despite not participating in pride parades, I don't think they should be done away with because I pretend my issues with them are holding up traffic. So, what is your real issue? It's not parades, it's not getting drunk, it's not 21 gun salutes...so it must be the involvment of gays in this particular example.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Being gay is illegal?

It was for a long time. And maybe they've acheived a few steps towards equality because of those traffic disrupting pride parades. But, more than likely you know what I'm saying. When blonde people aren't allowed to get married, then your example will be a valid one.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Hardly. It's an excuse for people to get drunk. The Irish are only the mascots.

From what I understand, that's pretty much what a gay pride parade is all about.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, then you've been to one more pride parade than I have.
What was the point in asking me, again?


Our traditions involve military members and do not impact those outside of the military. Like I said, if gays want to have their picnics or whatever, feel free.


If that's what you take pride in, yes.

(By the way, my underwear is Old Navy)


I refuse no days off. What's your point again?


As I've said before, I don't think anyone should be celebrated for something that they cannot control. It's a stupid reason to celebrate. Accomplishments should be celebrated. Not genetics (arguing, of course, that homosexuality is genetic).



Then lobbying congress, raising gay awareness (and marching down the street while people walk around in lewd outfits does not count as raising awareness, it just alienates people), and showing their neighbors they're the same as them is the way to do it. Saying "Hey, we're no different. We just sleep with the same sex." is the way to do it. Trying to shock the culture and parading around shouting metaphorically shouting "We're different! We deserve special treatment!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

I think a lot of problems experienced by the gays could be resolved if the loudest majority were... not so loud.


Then, once again, you need to reevaluate exactly what's going on.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Traffic. Is that the best you can come up with.

I don't know. Maybe gay parade where you live happens at 3pm monday afternoon in the middle of highway.

Good one, Milla.

My view is that everyone can have their parades, their demonstrations, whatever. It's when people start busting out the pots and pans and wooden spoons that I get pissed!!

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States does; it is the right to peaceable assembly, and it is guaranteed to every American.

Oh come one you know thats not what I mean

I'm not talking about them not having the right to do that, im saying what makes them think that they are so special that they deserve a parade?

Originally posted by Alliance
Thats not what St. Patty's day started as. So please, get over yourself.



Well you can't even seem to grasp the situation.

Hypothetical: "I really wish black would just stay indoors, everytime I see them and their blackness, I'm remind that there are black people which just makes me hate them more."

Thats essentially what you are saying.

No, because you can be gay and not be metrosexual

I don't hate gay people, I just hate metrosexuals

Yeah. You just said I don't hate the people, I just hate the culture they started.

Oh wait...that doesn't fly.

You can be metro and be straight. Cultural intolerance is why the seperate word was made up in the first place

Originally posted by Grimm22
No, because you can be gay and not be metrosexual

I don't hate gay people, I just hate metrosexuals
I'd expect not all gay men to be metrosexual considering you know, that by definition they can't be.



As for the current discussion I agree with Kinneary and Grim though, speaking for myself, I don't see my homosexuality as something I should be proud of.

It depends on how you take the word pride.

Originally posted by Alliance
It depends on how you take the word pride.
This is how I take it, and the way I imagine most people take it as well.

Originally posted by Kinneary
What was the point in asking me, again?

Because you have such a solid distaste for them, I'd have to assume you've been to one.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Our traditions involve military members and do not impact those outside of the military. Like I said, if gays want to have their picnics or whatever, feel free.

But see, that's just it. You don't get to say they can exist or they can't. No one is asking you for persmission, nor do they need to. If you don't like it, then don't go to them. As for the military, I see vets marching in parades all the time. They do this out of pride. I don't see why, but I don't see the pointin gay pride parades, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that because I don't like something it isn't okay for others to do it.


Originally posted by Kinneary
If that's what you take pride in, yes.

(By the way, my underwear is Old Navy)

But that's not what I take pride in. But it's not up to you to decide what is valid and what is not. It isn't up to any of us to decide what's best for anyone else. I'd point out that you likely have no issues with half naked women dancing the streets of New Orleans during Mardis Gras, but you'll say they shouldn't do that either because you want to pretend that your issue here isn't with men dressed as women, but half naked men dressed as women.


Originally posted by Kinneary
I refuse no days off. What's your point again?

My point is that you think that black history month or military based holidays are pointless but you have no problem observing them.


Originally posted by Kinneary
As I've said before, I don't think anyone should be celebrated for something that they cannot control. It's a stupid reason to celebrate. Accomplishments should be celebrated. Not genetics (arguing, of course, that homosexuality is genetic).

I'm sure you'd reconsider your opinion if you were denied rights for something you couldn't control.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Then lobbying congress, raising gay awareness (and marching down the street while people walk around in lewd outfits does not count as raising awareness, it just alienates people), and showing their neighbors they're the same as them is the way to do it. Saying "Hey, we're no different. We just sleep with the same sex." is the way to do it. Trying to shock the culture and parading around shouting metaphorically shouting "We're different! We deserve special treatment!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

Why wouldn't it? Look at how much sitting around and saying nothing while straight people have made all the rules, denied rights, beaten people to death, turned their backs on their children and friends has accomplished. We've gained so much by sitting quietly that people like you seem to think you have the right to tell everyone what they can and can't do. I don't appreciate the re-enforcment of the gay stereotype that we all prance around dressed like women, but I'd never tell those homosexuals that they aren't allowed to do that if they want.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I think a lot of problems experienced by the gays could be resolved if the loudest majority were... not so loud.

What would you rather we did? Asking for equal treatment hasn't done any good. Not asking for rights hasn't done any good. Screaming about it isn't going to do any good. And that's what it's really all about. We shouldn't have to ask for equal rights. Rights are rights, no matter where you stick your dick. If you think that your straight friends are going to suddenly have no issues with gays just because they stopped "acting gay", you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Then, once again, you need to reevaluate exactly what's going on.

Why? Irish parades are totally acceptable because they're really just an excuse to drink, but the same thing happens at gay pride parades and it's not okay? Why? Because some of the people drinking are men dressed as women who've had the audacity to leave their house dressed that way?

Originally posted by Eis
As for the current discussion I agree with Kinneary and Grim though, speaking for myself, I don't see my homosexuality as something I should be proud of.


Do you think it's something you should be denied rights over? Because the point everyone seems to be making is that parades are fine as long as it isn't gay people who are having them. But as soon as gay people have a parade, it's flaunting and forcing people to look at them?

who gives a shit. homosexuals are people. im not gay but if someone is who cares theres no diffrnce between straight dudes and gay dudes we just watch a difrent kind of porno thats all.

I don't recall saying anyone did. Last time I checked, this was a forum in which to voice your opinion.


Me either. However, when I see something as counter-productive and simply wrong, I do think something isn't okay to do.


I don't remember saying it was.


No, my issue is dressing half naked and calling it a 'pride parade for equal rights.'


You are entirely correct. Of course, I don't see how celebrating Martin Luthor King day is a black holiday (I equate it with, say, George Washington's birthday). Once again, he's being celebrated for his accomplishments. And if Veteran's Day is a government-recognized holiday I don't see a problem with that either, as it's celebrating people for their accomplishments. I'm not sure if it is, though.


Like, say, being discriminated against by affirmitive action because I'm a straight, white male? Not saying it's the exact same thing, but it exists nonetheless.


I don't think I have the right to tell a group of people what they can and can't do. I remember saying that I don't think they should and that they are harming themselves by doing it.

Regardless, I think that we have gotten to the point in this society where just about anyone can be accepted for who they are. Obviously it's not going to be overnight. But, as I said before, trying to induce culture shock is not going to work. If you do it like blacks did under Martin Luthor King, boycotts, real marches, sit-ins, then THAT is something I can totally support and completely agree with and support. Hell, I might even participate. Having drunken parades is not the way to do it.


I don't think I've ever said that. I think you're reading my posts and extracting preconceived notions from them.


No. An Irish holiday (not an Irish pride parade, an actual Irish holiday which came to America) is an excuse to drink.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Like, say, being discriminated against by affirmitive action because I'm a straight, white male? Not saying it's the exact same thing, but it exists nonetheless.

You being overlooked in favor of an equally qualified ethnic minority is almost comparable to it being legal to be denied housing or fired from your job in all 50 states, or to be outlawed from marriage or obtaining the legal incidents thereof in 45 states.

Affirmitive Action does not not mean an equally qualified minority gets the job. It means a minority gets the job if they have the minimum requirements, despite a white male having better qualifications only so a company or state institution can meet quotas.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Do you think it's something you should be denied rights over? Because the point everyone seems to be making is that parades are fine as long as it isn't gay people who are having them. But as soon as gay people have a parade, it's flaunting and forcing people to look at them?
Obviously not and I doubt that's the point, at least Kinneary, is making. The idea behind a gay pride parade is, in my opinion, stupid. To celebrate the pride certain people have over something which they were born with seems fruitless and idiotic, to me, of course.

I would much rather all those gay people out there to be celebrating the accomplishments of Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, Magnus Hirschfeld, etc. But even so, gay pride parades are not something I would vigorously dispute.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Affirmitive Action does not not mean an equally qualified minority gets the job. It means a minority gets the job if they have the minimum requirements, despite a white male having better qualifications only so a company or state institution can meet quotas.

Affirmative Action is voluntary.

When have you been discrimminated against due to Affirmative Action?

How is this comparable to or as pervasive as the discrimmination gays and lesbians face in adoption, housing, marriage, and the workplace?




Originally posted by Eis
Obviously not and I doubt that's the point, at least Kinneary, is making. The idea behind a gay pride parade is, in my opinion, stupid. To celebrate the pride certain people have over something which they were born with seems fruitless and idiotic, to me, of course.

I would much rather all those gay people out there to be celebrating the accomplishments of Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, Magnus Hirschfeld, etc. But even so, gay pride parades are not something I would vigorously dispute.

Gay pride parades commemorate the 1969 Stonewall riots that commenced the gay rights movement in the United States, and promote visibility of GLBT Americans by showing just how many of us there are.

I do know that the parades in the US are organized at a date that coincides with the Stonewall Riots but from what I've read it mainly shifts its focus to the promote visibility part. And well I don't think the best way to promote visibility for us it by taking the streets, play loud music and dance around in jockstraps

Originally posted by Eis
I do know that the parades in the US are organized at a date that coincides with the Stonewall Riots but from what I've read it mainly shifts its focus to the promote visibility part. And well I don't think the best way to promote visibility for us it by taking the streets, play loud music and dance around in jockstraps



True parades are boring. Gays should just stick to porn ! AND STREET ORGIES droolio


8=======D

Originally posted by Alliance
Yeah. You just said I don't hate the people, I just hate the culture they started.

Oh wait...that doesn't fly.

You can be metro and be straight. Cultural intolerance is why the seperate word was made up in the first place

Thats what i'm saying

I hate metrosexuals, gay and straight

I mean even if you're gay act like a man, not like a pansy

Originally posted by Eis
I'd expect not all gay men to be metrosexual considering you know, that by definition they can't be.



As for the current discussion I agree with Kinneary and Grim though, speaking for myself, I don't see my homosexuality as something I should be proud of.

I never said all gays were metrosexuals

Finally somebody gets it, I mean its not like you strived you're entire life to be gay, its not some huge accomplishment, so why the hell are there parades.

Originally posted by Grimm22
|I hate metrosexuals, gay and straight


Why ? Hate is a strong emotion to harbor...




Originally posted by Grimm22
I mean even if you're gay act like a man, not like a pansy



I am not attracted to feminine men. They turn me off. I'd just date a girl if that's what I wanted.


However, you are using the wrong term. A Metrosexual is a man (gay or straight) who is overtly concerned about his looks. He grooms himself every day, wears the most expensive clothes, probably bleaches his teeth and hair, and sun tans vigorously.


Metrosexuals do not "act like women" in thier personalities, only in the sense that they try to look thier best in all situations.



What you are talking about are "queens"- a slang term which refers to gay men (or straight men) who act like little girls. With this ass eyebrows, pink nails, belly showing, raging screaming annoying accents (the fkn lisp)



I personally find that style unattractive...but i certainly do not hate them for it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen


What you are talking about are "queens"- a slang term which refers to gay men (or straight men) who act like little girls. With this ass eyebrows, pink nails, belly showing, raging screaming annoying accents (the fkn lisp)

I personally find that style unattractive...but i certainly do not hate them for it.

From what I've seen, queens are probably the reason why there is so much homophobia in my country. I don't mind the whole "he likes teh c0ck" part, but if they made up 100% of the gay male population... I could honestly see myself as homophobic. Seriously, that personality annoys me more than anything else.

Yes, it is. But if you want government funds, you have to take the quota. It's the same way the federal government can sometimes be so influential in state government. "If you don't do this, this, and this, we won't give you X amount of dollars."


Here in the hospital, there are never more than two consecutive white winners for BJOQ, SOQ, or SSOQ (our versions of 'employee of the month'). And from all fo the clinics that go to the hospital to compete, we usually have one white, one black, and one filipino winner in each catagory. That is, in itself, extremely unlikely as the navy is around 68% white.

You can judge that situation in itself on your own. Not affirmitive action, but politically correct discrimination. Never have I experienced it personally, as I don't work in the civilian sector where it is executed. But, at the same time, does a black man have no right to feel offended when racists lynch other blacks? Does a white man have no right to feel offended when racists discriminate against other whites?



It's not. But then, that was never the point of what I said. If you read through my posts, I've already stated what I think would help the gay community.

Read what a person has to say before you just walk into the topic.

Metrosexuals aren't overly feminine males. Unless one considers being well dressed and groomed overly feminine. Which smelly, badly dressed, ugly people probably do - but really who cares what they think, besides other smell, badly dressed, ugly people.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Thats what i'm saying

I hate metrosexuals, gay and straight

I mean even if you're gay act like a man, not like a pansy

I think you should act like a man and not like an ass. People can act as they choose. They are not infringing on anyone elses rights.

Originally posted by Kinneary
You can judge that situation in itself on your own. Not affirmitive action, but politically correct discrimination. Never have I experienced it personally, as I don't work in the civilian sector where it is executed. But, at the same time, does a black man have no right to feel offended when racists lynch other blacks? Does a white man have no right to feel offended when racists discriminate against other whites?

Is ti descrimination if whites just suck? You can't prove discrimination. You're just anothe angsty white kid shouting "reverse descrimination" when a minority beats him at something.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
From what I've seen, queens are probably the reason why there is so much homophobia in my country. I don't mind the whole "he likes teh c0ck" part, but if they made up 100% of the gay male population... I could honestly see myself as homophobic. Seriously, that personality annoys me more than anything else.


F*ck yeah



Queens suck



The only girly homo I am attracted to is Marco (Adamo Ruggiero) from Degrassi...he's a HOTTIE !!!! droolio

Originally posted by Kinneary
Here in the hospital, there are never more than two consecutive white winners for BJOQ, SOQ, or SSOQ (our versions of 'employee of the month'). And from all fo the clinics that go to the hospital to compete, we usually have one white, one black, and one filipino winner in each catagory. That is, in itself, extremely unlikely as the navy is around 68% white.

You can judge that situation in itself on your own. Not affirmitive action, but politically correct discrimination. Never have I experienced it personally, as I don't work in the civilian sector where it is executed. But, at the same time, does a black man have no right to feel offended when racists lynch other blacks? Does a white man have no right to feel offended when racists discriminate against other whites?

If the problem is as pervasive as you pretend it to be, then you might be justified in taking offense. As it is, you are using your persecution complex as a justification for your prejudicial attitudes toward everyone that is not you.




Originally posted by Kinneary
It's not. But then, that was never the point of what I said. If you read through my posts, I've already stated what I think would help the gay community.

Read what a person has to say before you just walk into the topic.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm sure you'd reconsider your opinion if you were denied rights for something you couldn't control.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Like, say, being discriminated against by affirmitive action because I'm a straight, white male? Not saying it's the exact same thing, but it exists nonetheless.

So.. Unless I'm black or gay, I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about in regards to pride parades?

No, but perhaps you should be a bit more open minded and assume that minorites see things from a different perspective.

I don't really care about their perspective. At least, not in regards to this topic. When they act like social deviants, they're going to be treated as social deviants.

And in general, I hate pride parades. They're stupid. So what's to understand?

Define "social deviant."

Why exactly do 'gay pride parades' bother you? Is it the whole gay people being gay in the street in public thing? 'Cause I agree completely they should be kept behind closed doors. Closed bars even.

The 'pride' thing? So you'd be okay with it if they dropped the 'pride' tag and just called it a gay parade?

Do you hate Carnaval?

If it were a parade of hot lipstick lesbians lesbanimizing it up in the street would you hate it?

One who acts outside of society's accepted norm (not in the fact that they're gay, in the fact that the parades can sometimes be too sexually suggestive).

They were relatively simple questions that weren't particularly answered by your first post, which was predominantly waffley hodge podge, nor in this latest, which basically just repeated said waffley hodge podge. You should write bumper stickers.

Be who you are, because you shouldn't be treated any different?
Act as if you are equal if you want to be treated equally?

That's all very nice, Dr Phil, but it's basically what someone who's never been treated as a minority would say.

You're essentially saying that just existing is sufficient for equality, which is naivety bordering on stupidity. "Do nothing, things will change."

What does the second one even mean? If gay and lesbian committed couples want to have equal standing under the law as married people; they should act as if they have equal standing under the law as married people? If women want to have equal wages and opportunities for advancement as men in the same profession, they should act as if they have equal wages and opportunities for advancement?

The fact of the matter is that people are treated differently due to race, sex, sexuality and so on. Mexican-Americans could not serve on juries at a time, sodomy between homosexuals was only decriminalized as violating the US Constitution in a 2003 Supreme Court Decision, the glass ceiling is thinner but still exists for women in the workforce, your lovely UCMJ still defines "sodomy" as an offense worse than assaulting a minor, and grounds for dishonorable discharge and confinement.

I personally don't care for History months or parades, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with the intention of increasing awareness or vocalizing discontent. I wouldn't accept any reward for being a racial minority, but at the same time realize there are inequalities with regard to education and employment.

And at the end of the day, it's just a parade, one day a year I presume, not Goverment funded, not held during peak traffic hours, not mandatory to attend.
Originally posted by Kinneary
One who acts outside of society's accepted norm (not in the fact that they're gay, in the fact that the parades can sometimes be too sexually suggestive). So you find Carnival socially deviant? Do you find music videos to be socially deviant?

Reiterating as an addendum, feel free to actually answer them with something a little more substantive than "I find them stupid. Everyone should pretend that society is egalitarian with regard to social, legal, political and economic situations. You're equal you just don't know it yet."

Why exactly do 'gay pride parades' bother you? Is it the whole gay people being gay in the street in public thing?

The 'pride' thing? So you'd be okay with it if they dropped the 'pride' tag and just called it a gay parade?

Do you hate Carnaval?

If it were a parade of hot lipstick lesbians lesbanimizing it up in the street would you hate it?

Do you find parades in general stupid? Or only parades held by minorities?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They were relatively simple questions that weren't particularly answered by your first post, which was predominantly waffley hodge podge, nor in this latest, which basically just repeated said waffley hodge podge. You should write bumper stickers.

Be who you are, because you shouldn't be treated any different?
Act as if you are equal if you want to be treated equally?

That's all very nice, Dr Phil, but it's basically what someone who's never been treated as a minority would say.

You're essentially saying that just existing is sufficient for equality, which is naivety bordering on stupidity. "Do nothing, things will change."
Then obviously you haven't read my posts. Yet again. Do me a favor and read the topic.




Once again:




I still don't quite understand why some people in this topic enjoy attacking me because I'm in the military. Insinuating that I approve of everything in the UCMJ is, well, idiotic.

And no, it's not worse than assaulting a minor. Assaulting a minor is going to end up with you in prison. Sodomy (while it says sodomy, it only refers to the homosexual act, in practice) is illegal, and I do not agree with that.


And do you think the already grudged whites are going to get any less pissed off (and, by effect, possibly pass it on to their children) when they find out the government is giving jobs to minorities simply because they're a minority?


All of those facts are absolutely irrelevant.


Mardi Gras I think is vulgar, though not socially deviant (as most of society has accepted it). No, I do not find music videos to be deviant, either.


Feel free to actually read this topic.


Once again, we're going to take a trip down memory lane. I really do suggest you read this topic.






I'd think "Wow, that's pretty hot." And then when the police grabbed them and took them off to jail, I'd think that they rightly deserve what they got.

My approval or disapproval of gays and lesbians has absolutely nothing to do with this. I don't know why you're trying to make me out to be some huge homophobe.


AND AGAIN, ANOTHER REASON TO READ THE TOPIC.


Yes, I find parades in general stupid. No, that does not mean I'm anti-parade.


Seriously, did you come into this topic and start posting just because you wanted to sound righteous and be the voice of the 'little guy'? Because it's not working. Also, if you could do me a huge favor, I need you to read this topic before you post again. It would save me a lot of copy and pasting. Okay? Thanks.

Could you please attribute the names of people in your quotes?

Sorry about that. I can't edit it now since the coveted 15 has passed, but the only two people quoted are me and X.

Thanks. I like to know when you're quoting me, but I also like to know who's saying what

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Because despite not participating in pride parades, I don't think they should be done away with because I pretend my issues with them are holding up traffic. So, what is your real issue? It's not parades, it's not getting drunk, it's not 21 gun salutes...so it must be the involvment of gays in this particular example.


Originally posted by Kinneary
I don't really care about their perspective. At least, not in regards to this topic. When they act like social deviants, they're going to be treated as social deviants.

And in general, I hate pride parades. They're stupid. So what's to understand?

So, with one post, you illustrate exactly what I've been saying to you since the beginning of the argument. You just don't like gays. They're an affront to your masculine self-image. Your opinion of homosexuals are fed by these public displays of non-traditional masculinity and unconventional lifestyle. And in that respect, I can agree with you. I don't wear make-up; I don't dress in drag, but I'm gay. There's nothing I can do about the evolution of the gay sub-culture. And while it pains me to realize that the first assumption that one makes about me when they find out I'm gay is that I listen to Aretha Franklin or played with dolls when I was a kid, there's not much point in wasting my time making excuses about it. I have a number of friends who listen mainly to female vocalists, or divas if you like, or who wouldn't think twice about going out in a floor length sequin dress. The only difference is that I've had the time and fortitude to get to know them. I don't define them by their dress or the music to which they listen. You do.

So you're fine with gays and their devient behavior, as long as they keep to themselves and hide in cramped clubs in alleys or keep their picnics on the same level of display as you'd expect to find at a church luncheon.

And to address your last point, can you provide an example of any other kind of parade in which the term "pride" is always part of the title? Any other group with which that term is always applied?

Originally posted by Kinneary
One who acts outside of society's accepted norm (not in the fact that they're gay, in the fact that the parades can sometimes be too sexually suggestive).

That's not an answer. That's a one sided perspective.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And to address your last point, can you provide an example of any other kind of parade in which the term "pride" is always part of the title? Any other group with which that term is always applied?

I believe there's a movie coming out soon called "Pride."

It's about Bernie Mac swimming, and it don't get any gayer than that!!!!

Originally posted by botankus
I believe there's a movie coming out soon called "Pride."

It's about Bernie Mac swimming, and it don't get any gayer than that!!!!

I believe it's called "Pride" because it's two hours of young men in speedos. Now, when the movie posters causes traffic to back up or streets to be blocked off, we'll have a reason to beat Bernie Mac to a pulp and leave him tied to a fence some where.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

So you're fine with gays and their devient behavior, as long as they keep to themselves and hide in cramped clubs in alleys or keep their picnics on the same level of display as you'd expect to find at a church luncheon.

Not sure exactly why, but that statement is F'ing hilarious.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
it pains me to realize that the first assumption that one makes about me when they find out I'm gay is that I listen to Aretha Franklin

Liking Aretha Franklin isn't gay.

"Respect" and "Chain of Fools" are both Mo-Town classics.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Liking Aretha Franklin isn't gay.

"Respect" and "Chain of Fools" are both Mo-Town classics.


I'm addressing stereotypes. I could have easily said Brittney Spears or Diana Ross. The specific name isn't part of what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Then obviously you haven't read my posts. Yet again. Do me a favor and read the topic. I have read the topic over the course of several days. It evolved from talking about a predominantly gay neighborhood to discussing the merits of gay pride parades, at which point I'm trying to figure out why there need be merits to any parade. My humblest and most utterly sincere apologies for not following your posts over the course of several days religiously.

Your viewpoint seems to keep shifting as to why the gay pride parade's are irksome, from it was fun but they disrupt traffic, to "socially deviant" behavior shouldn't be public, to I find all parades stupid but only dislike those which don't "celebrate achievements".

Perhaps just perhaps they're celebrating the achievement of being able to live their lifestyle without fear of being arrested for it? Just a thought.
Originally posted by Kinneary
And do you think the already grudged whites are going to get any less pissed off (and, by effect, possibly pass it on to their children) when they find out the government is giving jobs to minorities simply because they're a minority? Again you assume that the person of minority could not actually simply be equally qualified. Pshaw, that would be unheard of.
Originally posted by Kinneary
All of those facts are absolutely irrelevant.It's relevant in that really a parade that basically affects you in no way whatsoever still bothers you and I'm curious as to why.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Mardi Gras I think is vulgar, though not socially deviant (as most of society has accepted it). No, I do not find music videos to be deviant, eitherBecause they fall within your personal perceived realms of "normal" they are therefore not "socially deviant?" "I'm normal and they're not like me."
Originally posted by Kinneary
Once again, we're going to take a trip down memory lane. I really do suggest you read this topic.That was an ambiguous answer. The question is simple: is it the 'pride' part of 'gay pride parade.' As stated below, although apparently all parades are stupid, but you're not anti-parade as a rule.

In which case if they dropped the "pride" tag and just held it as a Mardi Gras/Carnival event would you still vehemently dislike it? If so why?
Originally posted by Kinneary
I'd think "Wow, that's pretty hot." And then when the police grabbed them and took them off to jail, I'd think that they rightly deserve what they got.

My approval or disapproval of gays and lesbians has absolutely nothing to do with this. I don't know why you're trying to make me out to be some huge homophobe.I consider you a typical young straight white male, in a predominantly straight-male-dominated-white-majority society. Interpret that as you will.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Yes, I find parades in general stupid. No, that does not mean I'm anti-parade.Only anti-pride parade if it's going to be a Mardi Gras; in which case would it be acceptable if they simply called it the Gay Parade and had a Mardi Gras style event?
Originally posted by Kinneary
Seriously, did you come into this topic and start posting just because you wanted to sound righteous and be the voice of the 'little guy'? Because it's not working. Also, if you could do me a huge favor, I need you to read this topic before you post again. It would save me a lot of copy and pasting. Okay? Thanks. I come into this and other topics sporadically to discuss things generally out of boredom.

You could save time by just answering people's simple short answer questions with simple short answers.

Addendum the second:
As far as I'm aware the actual wording of Article 125 doesn't specify homosexual sodomy; but the enforcement of said Article is disproportionately towards homosexual sodomy.

"The penalties under Article 125 are severe. Consensual sodomy is punishable by "ishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years." The criminal penalties for sodomy are in fact more severe than the punishment for negligent homicide, extortion, assault upon a child under 16 years, and aggravated assault other than with a loaded firearm." ACLU; although I can't find what they reference as.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"I'm normal and they're not like me."


And that's pretty much what it's all about.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm addressing stereotypes. I could have easily said Brittney Spears or Diana Ross. The specific name isn't part of what I'm saying.

Now liking Britney Spears is gay.

But like Aretha, Diana Ross is a Mo-town legend.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Now liking Britney Spears is gay.

Yes

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's not an answer. That's a one sided perspective.
Would you prefer if I change my diction to 'intense alienation of the moderate public'?


Once again, you're reading my posts and extracting preconcieved notion from them. Not once have I ever said or insinuated that. I believe what I said was they need to raise awareness, not march around in lewd outfits.


No, I don't just not like gays. I really don't care, honestly. Let them be gay. I'm still failing to realize how you're equating the fact that I don't agree with pride parades into I hate gays. I hate pride parades.

Stop playing the hurt minority against the big, evil bigot.


When I say a pride parade, it refers to a parade in which the participants are showcasing aspects of themselves, or the group, in which they are proud of. For example, a military parade can be a pride parade. A gay parade can be a pride parade. The Thanksgiving parade cannot be a pride parade.


You don't have to follow them religiously. Just read them before you start asking me questions.


Perhaps complex thought is something alien to you. Let me draw you a nice and clear picture here.

I think all parades are stupid.
I think pride parades that celebrate things people have no control over is an especially idiotic reason to have a parade.
I think gay pride parades are hurtful to the gay community.
And the socially deviant behavior goes right in line with why they are hurtful to the gay community.
Never did I say they are fun but disrupt traffic.


No one is going to arrest a gay person because they are gay.


And again you're taking the fact that Affirmitive Action encourages hiring of minorities, whether they are equally qualified or not, and pushing that to the side to make me look I'm a bigot. Please, stop with the self righteousness.


British people thinking Americans are stupid basically affects me in no way whatsoever, but still bothers me, too. Sorry. Sometimes people can be aggravated by simple acts and beliefs despite not being personally affected by them. It happens more often than you think.


What are we talking about here? Mardi Gras? Music Videos? Gays? You lost me.


I think all parades are stupid.
I think pride parades that celebrate things people have no control over is an especially idiotic reason to have a parade.
I think gay pride parades are hurtful to the gay community.


From my understanding, and I'm not the authority by any means, did Mardi Gras start out as a Christian celebration, not a pride parade? If it were just a gay version of Mardi Gras, no, I would not have a problem with it.


Okay.


If gays want to have a Mardi Gras style event, they can feel absolutely free to do so.


I did not find anything in the UCMJ about specifically assaulting a minor. I could be wrong, though. And, once again.

I still don't quite understand why some people in this topic enjoy attacking me because I'm in the military. Insinuating that I approve of everything in the UCMJ is, well, idiotic.




This is what I hate. As soon as a white guy doesn't agree with something gays or minorities do, he's automatically labled anti-whatever. I don't approve of their pride parades, so I'm a homophobe. Hell, Eis, a gay man, agrees with my view that homosexuality, something he can't control, isn't something to be proud of. It just is. My heterosexuality isn't something to be proud of. I shouldn't get parades just because I'm straight. If gays want to have gay versions of celebrations like Mardi Gras, they should feel free to.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Now liking Britney Spears is gay.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Yes

w1hbCgMTltM

Originally posted by Kinneary
I still don't quite understand why some people in this topic enjoy attacking me because I'm in the military. Insinuating that I approve of everything in the UCMJ is, well, idiotic.

Yes. If this continues, let me know.

Originally posted by Kinneary
This is what I hate. As soon as a white guy doesn't agree with something gays or minorities do, he's automatically labled anti-whatever. I don't approve of their pride parades, so I'm a homophobe.

I think your comments have extended beyond mere "disapporval."

Originally posted by Kinneary
Hell, Eis, a gay man, agrees with my view that homosexuality, something he can't control, isn't something to be proud of. It just is. My heterosexuality isn't something to be proud of.

Wow. Pluralism. Really, you shouldn't be surprised it exists.

It is my personal opinion that certain excesses could be detrimental to the equal rights movement. However, I also understand that an oppressed minority has a right to over-express itself. Especially when some people feel ashamed to be homosexual. Having confidence in who you are can be termed pride. There are multiple denotations of the word.

Be sensitive to what you are saying. You can state most opinons withoug being offensive.

Originally posted by Alliance I think your comments have extended beyond mere "disapporval."
How so?


It merely shows that calling me a homophobe for having a certain view that other gays also have is really... not smart.


If people are confident, that's great. Very nice. But that doesn't mean you deserve a parade for it.

Originally posted by Kinneary
You don't have to follow them religiously. Just read them before you start asking me questions. I have I just don't memorize people's posts over the course of several days and recall them all instantly at the point of making a new post several days later.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Perhaps complex thought is something alien to you. Let me draw you a nice and clear picture here.

I think all parades are stupid.
I think pride parades that celebrate things people have no control over is an especially idiotic reason to have a parade.
I think gay pride parades are hurtful to the gay community.
And the socially deviant behavior goes right in line with why they are hurtful to the gay community.
Never did I say they are fun but disrupt traffic.Snarky.

Retraction: yes you said that BBQs were fun and that marches stop traffic and are therefore irksome.
Originally posted by Kinneary
No one is going to arrest a gay person because they are gay.Today, yes it's unlikely, but not impossible. As for in the past, Lawrence vs Texas, Kentucky vs Wasson, Bowers vs Hardwick. The archaic Lawrence vs Texas case was decided in the US Supreme Court... in 2003.
Originally posted by Kinneary
And again you're taking the fact that Affirmitive Action encourages hiring of minorities, whether they are equally qualified or not, and pushing that to the side to make me look I'm a bigot. Please, stop with the self righteousness. It doesn't make you look like a bigot, it just makes you look like a white male whining about how disadvantaged white males are in a white male dominated society.

Besides your one anecdote about a hospital, you haven't really offered anything to confirm widespread hiring of minorities on the basis of their race alone. You could have at least offered something less personally anecdotal like the ironic appointment of Justice Clarence Brown to replace Thurgood Marshall despite his qualification for the job being questionable, at least according to the ABA. I was just offering counterpoint to you basically not even putting into consideration the employee could actually be equally qualified.

Affirmative action as it's currently formulated and implemented in all likelihood isn't a good methodology to increase employment equality, however that doesn't mean that the underlying intent is wrong nor that there isn't a justification.
Originally posted by Kinneary
British people thinking Americans are stupid basically affects me in no way whatsoever, but still bothers me, too. Sorry. Sometimes people can be aggravated by simple acts and beliefs despite not being personally affected by them. It happens more often than you think. It bothers you that British people consider you stupid. Do you think it bothers some gay people that acts such as the legal framework not recognising a stable gay relationship, or beliefs that public displays of "gayness" are socially deviant?

Question: under your definition of "socially deviant" would you consider a lesbian or gay couple having public displays of affection socially deviant?
Originally posted by Kinneary
What are we talking about here? Mardi Gras? Music Videos? Gays? You lost me. What is and what isn't "socially deviant." Women buffing cars with various body parts in music videos isn't. Near naked women dressed in elaborate feathered costumes in a parade isn't. But near naked men dressed in elaborate (feathered?) costumes is?

It's not my thing. I would assume it's not your thing. But I wouldn't consider it socially deviant, but then I'm one of those loose-moralled liberal foreigners.
Originally posted by Kinneary
From my understanding, and I'm not the authority by any means, did Mardi Gras start out as a Christian celebration, not a pride parade? If it were just a gay version of Mardi Gras, no, I would not have a problem with it. No idea. Which was basically what the first post I made in here you responded to, with snarky blah blah blah read old posts, was asking; which none of your little recap self-posts really answered unambiguously. Of course it would still be a parade of social deviants?
Originally posted by Kinneary
If gays want to have a Mardi Gras style event, they can feel absolutely free to do so. Which was basically what the first post I made in here you responded to, with snarky blah blah blah read old posts, was asking; which none of your little recap self-posts really answered unambiguously.
Originally posted by Kinneary
I did not find anything in the UCMJ about specifically assaulting a minor. I could be wrong, though. And, once again.
I still don't quite understand why some people in this topic enjoy attacking me because I'm in the military. Insinuating that I approve of everything in the UCMJ is, well, idiotic. I'm not attacking you, I'm simply using a pertinent example of discrimination. If I was discussing gender bias with Alliance a pertinent example could be the slant towards there being more male PIs in science.Originally posted by Kinneary
This is what I hate. As soon as a white guy doesn't agree with something gays or minorities do, he's automatically labled anti-whatever. I don't approve of their pride parades, so I'm a homophobe. Hell, Eis, a gay man, agrees with my view that homosexuality, something he can't control, isn't something to be proud of. It just is. My heterosexuality isn't something to be proud of. I shouldn't get parades just because I'm straight. If gays want to have gay versions of celebrations like Mardi Gras, they should feel free to. Snarky, yes. Somewhat whiny. Homophobe, no. You read too much into things. I find this whole concept of "socially deviant" as you've defined it interesting and curious though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I have I just don't memorize people's posts over the course of several days and recall them all instantly at the point of making a new post several days later.
Snarky.

Retraction: yes you said that BBQs were fun and that marches stop traffic and are therefore irksome.
Today, yes it's unlikely, but not impossible. As for in the past, Lawrence vs Texas, Kentucky vs Wasson, Bowers vs Hardwick. The archaic Lawrence vs Texas case was decided in the US Supreme Court... in 2003.
It doesn't make you look like a bigot, it just makes you look like a white male whining about how disadvantaged white males are in a white male dominated society.

Besides your one anecdote about a hospital, you haven't really offered anything to confirm widespread hiring of minorities on the basis of their race alone. You could have at least offered something less personally anecdotal like the ironic appointment of Justice Clarence Brown to replace Thurgood Marshall despite his qualification for the job being questionable, at least according to the ABA. I was just offering counterpoint to you basically not even putting into consideration the employee could actually be equally qualified.

Affirmative action as it's currently formulated and implemented in all likelihood isn't a good methodology to increase employment equality, however that doesn't mean that the underlying intent is wrong nor that there isn't a justification.
It bothers you that British people consider you stupid. Do you think it bothers some gay people that acts such as the legal framework not recognising a stable gay relationship, or beliefs that public displays of "gayness" are socially deviant?

Question: under your definition of "socially deviant" would you consider a lesbian or gay couple having public displays of affection socially deviant?
What is and what isn't "socially deviant." Women buffing cars with various body parts in music videos isn't. Near naked women dressed in elaborate feathered costumes in a parade isn't. But near naked men dressed in elaborate (feathered?) costumes is?

It's not my thing. I would assume it's not your thing. But I wouldn't consider it socially deviant, but then I'm one of those loose-moralled liberal foreigners.
No idea. Which was basically what the first post I made in here you responded to, with snarky blah blah blah read old posts, was asking; which none of your little recap self-posts really answered unambiguously. Of course it would still be a parade of social deviants?
Which was basically what the first post I made in here you responded to, with snarky blah blah blah read old posts, was asking; which none of your little recap self-posts really answered unambiguously.
I'm not attacking you, I'm simply using a pertinent example of discrimination. If I was discussing gender bias with Alliance a pertinent example could be the slant towards there being more male PIs in science.Snarky, yes. Somewhat whiny. Homophobe, no. You read too much into things. I find this whole concept of "socially deviant" as you've defined it interesting and curious though.

The minute I saw this thread I thought of you.

Edit: Not in a bad/insult. You're just a straight guy that cool with playing gay.

Originally posted by LethalFemme
The minute I saw this thread I thought of you. Likewise you with this one:
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
9gKFFVsZodQ

I foresee this going even more offtopic than it already is.Originally posted by LethalFemme
Edit: Not in a bad/insult. You're just a straight guy that cool with playing gay. I don't really consider "gay" a derogatory anyway.

Edit: Kinneary, I'm going to sleep. Feel free to respond to the above but I'm just going to agree to disagree over anything that's been disagreeable - 'cause I really shouldn't be spending so much time on KMC.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/6/4/customsig_70264_i4.gif <--"KHAN-NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!"

Originally posted by Kinneary
No, I don't just not like gays. I really don't care, honestly. Let them be gay. I'm still failing to realize how you're equating the fact that I don't agree with pride parades into I hate gays. I hate pride parades.

Stop playing the hurt minority against the big, evil bigot.

I assure you, I'm not hurt. It takes someone a lot bigger than you to hurt me. I never said you hate gays. In the very quote you used to write the comment to which I am responding, you'll see I never said you hate gays. I said you think they're an affront to your masculinity and that open displays of it are lewd. Be it in a pride parade or a couple walking down the street holding hands. You're one of those people who are fine with homosexuals existing as long as they're not out there turning your kids gay. If you are as big and straight as you say you are, you wouldn't care. And if you think for even a minute I think you'd have a problem with a half dressed woman walking down the street, you're nuts.


Originally posted by Kinneary
When I say a pride parade, it refers to a parade in which the participants are showcasing aspects of themselves, or the group, in which they are proud of. For example, a military parade can be a pride parade. A gay parade can be a pride parade. The Thanksgiving parade cannot be a pride parade.

What are you talking about? The military parade is a military tradition that has no influence upon people outside the military. I heard that some where.

The Thanksgiving parade celebrates the mass murder of native Americans, right. As long as everyone involved is dressed from head to toe it's all good.


Originally posted by Kinneary
You don't have to follow them religiously. Just read them before you start asking me questions.

I'm not asking you questions. I'm pointing out that you're a hypocrit.


Originally posted by Kinneary
Perhaps complex thought is something alien to you. Let me draw you a nice and clear picture here.
Your point has been nice and clear from the first word you typed.
Originally posted by Kinneary
I think all parades are stupid.
except military parades based on tradition.
Originally posted by Kinneary
I think pride parades that celebrate things people have no control over is an especially idiotic reason to have a parade.
I think you need to really question how complex my thoughts can be when you think it's a matter of pride in being gay and not a parade to demonstate that they're not ashamed of it.
Originally posted by Kinneary
I think gay pride parades are hurtful to the gay community.
Well, that's nice. As soon as the gay community elects you as king queen, you'll be able to tell them to stop hurting themselves.
Originally posted by Kinneary
And the socially deviant behavior goes right in line with why they are hurtful to the gay community.
Again, you think it's devient for a man to dress as a half naked women. So do I. But that man doesn't. And his say is just as important as is yours or mine.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Never did I say they are fun but disrupt traffic.
No, you said they were lewd and disruptive to traffic.

Originally posted by Magee
"are welcome as long as they understand this is our community,"

hmm not sure about where you live but you can't own a community here, anyone who is anyone can live anywhere they wish to, if they can afford it lol.

i found the kissing babies part weirder.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why ? Hate is a strong emotion to harbor...








I am not attracted to feminine men. They turn me off. I'd just date a girl if that's what I wanted.


However, you are using the wrong term. A Metrosexual is a man (gay or straight) who is overtly concerned about his looks. He grooms himself every day, wears the most expensive clothes, probably bleaches his teeth and hair, and sun tans vigorously.


Metrosexuals do not "act like women" in thier personalities, only in the sense that they try to look thier best in all situations.



What you are talking about are "queens"- a slang term which refers to gay men (or straight men) who act like little girls. With this ass eyebrows, pink nails, belly showing, raging screaming annoying accents (the fkn lisp)



I personally find that style unattractive...but i certainly do not hate them for it.

Whatever, you get my point though

No man, gay or straight should act like so frollicy woman

And i'm sorry but hate is pretty much the only term I can think of when it comes to how I feel about guys like that

Originally posted by Alliance
I think you should act like a man and not like an ass. People can act as they choose. They are not infringing on anyone elses rights.

I never said they were infringing on anyone's rights

I'm saying that nobody should respect them, because there is nothing respectable about them

Grimm, just let it go. My not liking pride parades and thinking that they were hurting the gay image makes me a homophobe somehow. Some people here are just too sensitive about the issue to talk about it in reasonable fashion. There's no point.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I never said they were infringing on anyone's rights

I'm saying that nobody should respect them, because there is nothing respectable about them

Which explains your bigotry.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Grimm, just let it go. My not liking pride parades and thinking that they were hurting the gay image makes me a homophobe somehow. Some people here are just too sensitive about the issue to talk about it in reasonable fashion. There's no point.

You made unreasonable claims. Don't pretend that you merely stated a debatable perception because you didn't. You made offensive comments. You were the one being unreasonable. I stated a similar opinion, you didn't see anyone jump on my back. Why? Because I stated it objectively and rationally.

Originally posted by Alliance
Which explains your bigotry.


You made unreasonable claims. Don't pretend that you merely stated a debatable perception because you didn't. You made offensive comments. You were the one being unreasonable. I stated a similar opinion, you didn't see anyone jump on my back. Why? Because I stated it objectively and rationally.

If being a biggot means standing by my morals than so be it

Originally posted by Grimm22
If being a biggot means standing by my morals than so be it

You can tell that you're an absolute wanker just by looking at your sig, fvck the stars and stripes and fvck you.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
You can tell that you're an absolute wanker just by looking at your sig, fvck the stars and stripes and fvck you.

Umm...excuse me. NO.

Originally posted by Grimm22
If being a biggot means standing by my morals than so be it

Except the problem is whenever bigots have stood by thier "morals" in 20 years they finally catch up to the game and comprehend thier bigotry. Or we just have to wait for the rest to die off.

You'll go down on the side of people who didn't want to let the Irish immigrate, the people who didn't want women to vote, the people to threw the Japanese in concentration camps, the people who didn't want blacks to go to your school, and the people who think if you government labels you a terrorist, you are sub human. Thats where that pathetic type of "morals" have done throught history.

There are real morals in this world. Try supporting those instead.