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How bout Juggernaut vs. The Hulk?

this has been done before.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/15217_1-juggernaut-or-the-hulk
I'd say fight would result in a stailmate, edge to hulk.

WarHulk's proof that physical ("celestial tech enhanced" might will overcome Cyttorak's charm, thus this inevitably will resolve to Hulk's favour. eventually.

the issue is whether Hulk gets the time to get so strong and/or is motivated enough to clobber Juggernaut.

don't think Juggernaut has anything in his arsenal that he can do to Hulk, to permanently put him out of commission but, he could definitely knock out some versions of The Hulk and that's as close to a victory as it gets with many super powered characters.

I think it would be a stalemate with not an advantage on ether side. I believe if Hulk got mad enough he might be able to shatter Juggs force field. One reason why I believe that. Source from respect Hulk thread

After breaking free of a force field created by Dr. Strange and Silver Surfer, the Hulk takes on Surfer and Namor. THE ORDER #4
http://img233.echo.cx/img233/3042/order2a8jo.jpg
http://img233.echo.cx/img233/8359/order2b2ik.jpg
http://img233.echo.cx/img233/8905/order2c1ss.jpg

Juggernaut does have enough strength to hurt and possibly knock out Hulk

quite a lot of characters possess the physical strength to knock out The Hulk.
it's just that, realistically, unless the juggernaut blindsides him or tricks him, The Hulk is going to shake off all of juggernaut's attacks and give himself the mental stimulation necessary to grow far too strong for the juggernaut to combat.

I don't know your talking about a guy who knocked out Thing & Colossus with less then 5 punches each. Your also talking about somebody who walking towards Thor backhanded Thor and sent him flying what look like maybe 100 yards and he was flying back at pretty vast speed

Originally posted by janus77
WarHulk's proof that physical ("celestial tech enhanced" might will overcome Cyttorak's charm, thus this inevitably will resolve to Hulk's favour. eventually.

the issue is whether Hulk gets the time to get so strong and/or is motivated enough to clobber Juggernaut.

don't think Juggernaut has anything in his arsenal that he can do to Hulk, to permanently put him out of commission but, he could definitely knock out some versions of The Hulk and that's as close to a victory as it gets with many super powered characters.

It wasn't Hulks power that stopped Juggernaut. It was the power of the Celestials, Apoc made a direct comment about it. Besides, Juggernaut's durability is far greater than his forward momentum field.

Even if Hulk could damage Juggernaut, Juggs isn't going to be knocked out. Cain can exist just as a skeleton and still be able to move without any major organs.

That was because of a magic attack as well. So Cain's healing factor would probably heal that right up.


Originally posted by golem370
I think it would be a stalemate with not an advantage on ether side. I believe if Hulk got mad enough he might be able to shatter Juggs force field. One reason why I believe that. Source from respect Hulk thread

After breaking free of a force field created by Dr. Strange and Silver Surfer, the Hulk takes on Surfer and Namor. THE ORDER #4


Juggernaut's force field is not the same as the Crimson bands. Also, the Crimson Bands are only as strong as the user can make them. Dr. Strang isn't going to be making them as strong as Cyttorak.

the juggernaut doesn't pose any offensive threat to The Hulk, because of the significantly superior speed and mobility of The Hulk, it is quite likely that a version of The Hulk will simply dodge the attacks and grow stronger and stronger and stronger (and proportionately more resilient, durable, energetic and larger) ...

since the juggernaut can be knocked back and knocked out (Onslaught), that The Hulk will attain the level of physical power necessary to overcome all aspects of Cyttorak's charm and thus extinguish the juggernaut.

that's what I'm getting at. once we accept that the juggernaut's curse can be physically countered (the celestially enhanced WarHulk) it only becomes a question of how much physical force does it take to get the job done. and in The Hulk, we have a character with the ability to exert infinite physical force.

Eh....even though Hulk could exceed Cyttorak, its unlikely in most of their scenarios.

STALEMATE.

Please Digi close this before it goes to chaos again...

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Eh....even though Hulk could exceed Cyttorak, its unlikely in most of their scenarios.

STALEMATE.
fair enough.
none of the scenarios we come up with are going to be likely, as they result in the death of a character.

Marvel aren't going to be too keen on letting either one of these characters 'die'...

Originally posted by janus77
fair enough.
none of the scenarios we come up with are going to be likely, as they result in the death of a character.

Marvel aren't going to be too keen on letting either one of these characters 'die'...


Exactly Janus.

File this one under "Aint Gonna Happen"

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Eh....even though Hulk could exceed Cyttorak, its unlikely in most of their scenarios.



What are you talking about? Hulk will never be Cyttorak level.

Not to mention, for the 50th time, Juggernaut is invulnerable to physical attack. Hulk is not. Juggernaut has unlimited stamina. Hulk does not.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


What are you talking about? Hulk will never be Cyttorak level.

What Im saying is that Hulk has overpowered the Cyttorak protective abilities on Cain before, and has even stopped Jugg's supposedly Cyttorak powered unstoppable forward momentum.

Nevertheless... As I said, I still chalk this fight up as STALEMATE. Jugg's lifeforce is protected Magically(Not counting the recent stuff with Juggernaut and the Cyttorak) And Juggernaut does not have to power needed to overpower Hulk. Part of the problem is that Hulk is too dumb to understand that Juggernaut is invulnerable.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
uh, Unlimited Strength>>>Cyttorak but that scenario is unlikely.

What Im saying is that Hulk has overpowered the Cyttorak protective abilities on Cain before, and has stopped Jugg's forward movement.

Cyttorak has more going for him that just physical strength (magic is quite useful)

Hulk has never overpowered the enchantment that protects Juggy he just used a Judo style move to redirect Juggy's momentum (and even that took the help of tech he no longer has)

When I first got to this forum, this is the Topic I dove into first. In the beginning, I eagerly grabbed my Hulk #172 (I think that's it, where he fights Juggernaut after their prison break), and claimed all day that Hulk would beat Juggernaut.

BUT

I was mistaken. Other than BFR, it should be near impossible for Hulk to pull any sort of win against Juggernaut. It's widely known that Classical Juggernaut is IMPERVIOUS to physical damage. IMO, Hulk is stronger, can get stronger faster, and will always be more physically powerful than Juggernaut, but it actually doesn't help him int his fight.

I thought this fight would be a stalemate forever, but after thinking about it rationally for a few weeks, reading some of my books, I compromised that with Juggernauts impressive strength, EVENTUALLY he would land something that would take Hulk out. Not kill him, no, because it's also IMO that Hulk can't be killed by physical means, but he would have sufficient force to knock him out, even if it was for a few seconds before he got up again. That would be a win.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Cyttorak has more going for him that just physical strength (magic is quite useful)

Hulk has never overpowered the enchantment that protects Juggy he just used a Judo style move to redirect Juggy's momentum (and even that took the help of tech he no longer has)

As far as the movement.... there was no jeudo move involved... I know this argument comes up evertime regarding them... When it shows movement (dust kicking into the air) then the dust settling (IE movement has stopped) then Juggernauts Close up surprise (validation that he has stopped) THEN a tenticle going to his legs and flinging him off... it seems there was a lack of juggs walking.. hulk stopped him.

As for this whole Tech Business... is everyone positive he was inhanced by the celestial tech? I just reread the issue and it seems as if Apoc said "using this tech, I found Hulk was an integral part of the future" not "with this tech I hereby grant you the power to stop the juggernaut". I don't know... I really could be wrong. It just seems to me that he blocked up hulks mind...

Stalemate. and thats just regular Hulk.

Even if possible, Hulk being "KO'd for a few seconds" is no different than simply being knocked down for a few moments. too short of a timeframe to declare victory.

The fight would still go on, I just predict that Juggernaut would get bored before Hulk would....and if not, Hulk get SO pissed, and would end up eventually with so much power he would knock Juggernaut into some other State - breaking up the fight for weeks, unless Hulk tried to pursue.

There is no stalemate. Stop being an idiot. Even Mightyeinherjar, the only sane Hulk fan on this board, admits Hulk can't beat Classic Juggernaut.

So I'm not a sane hulk fan?

You're a hulk fan? I had no idea. sorry.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There is no stalemate. Stop being an idiot. Even Mightyeinherjar, the only sane Hulk fan on this board, admits Hulk can't beat Classic Juggernaut.

Youre the idiot if you think I said Hulk could "beat" Juggernaut.

I said Hulk would eventually knock him into another state. Which is still a Stalemate.

1. Juggernaut cannot match Hulk in power as Hulk's strength is as unlimited as it comes.

2. Hulk can't injure Juggernaut as he is protected magically.


If you hate the Hulk character, feel free to unleash personal feelings elsewhere. His strength is said to be Unlimited, and is considered nigh-invulnerable with a healing factor on top of that. I certainly didnt make that up.

rules on BFR state if you can't return under your own power, then it's BFR. Juggernaut can EVENTUALLY return under his own power. Hulk doesn't start at unlimited strength, and his strength is not equal to that of Juggernaut without enhancements like Apoc's tech. HE WILL NEVER WIN A SLUGFEST WITH CLASSIC JUGGERNAUT.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
HE WILL NEVER WIN A SLUGFEST WITH CLASSIC JUGGERNAUT.

Fact: Juggernaut's physical strength would get surpassed by Hulk's.

meaning Hulks blows (Even if somehow not KO'ing Juggernaut would still make contact and more and more distance would be created)

My point would that Juggernaut would "pump" Hulk up to the point where he would get knocked distances that he would take weeks to get back from(as Juggernaut is slow as HELL), similar to what Onslaught did - knocking Juggs from Vancouver to New Jersey.

Slugfests with Hulk favors Hulk (even if you are protected magically) You will still eventually get knocked large distances with more and more force the more pissed he gets.

But the main point is that neither could "kill" the other and KOs are highly unlikely. STALEMATE.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
What Im saying is that Hulk has overpowered the Cyttorak protective abilities on Cain before, and has even stopped Jugg's supposedly Cyttorak powered unstoppable forward momentum.



Hulk has not stopped Juggernaut with physical force, not under his own power. If you noticed War Hulk had a green aura around his feet with he halted Juggernaut.

It doesn't matter how strong Hulk is, he won't be able to stop Juggernaut with his own power. For one the ground still wouldn't hold. You could have a adamantium statue of Hulk and Juggernaut could continue to push it back without it giving way.

As you can see, Apoc clearly says "Power of the Celestials". Also the top of the scan you can see the green aura around Hulks feet which helped him gain the traction needed to stop Juggernaut.


http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1699/theincrediblehulkv24570yv9.th.jpg

the more times juggernaut hits him hulk is gonna get stronger and stronger.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Fact: Juggernaut's physical strength would get surpassed by Hulk's.

meaning Hulks blows (Even if somehow not KO'ing Juggernaut would still make contact and more and more distance would be created)

My point would that Juggernaut would "pump" Hulk up to the point where he would get knocked distances that he would take weeks to get back from(as Juggernaut is slow as HELL), similar to what Onslaught did - knocking Juggs from Vancouver to New Jersey.

Slugfests with Hulk favors Hulk (even if you are protected magically) You will still eventually get knocked large distances with more and more force the more pissed he gets.

But the main point is that neither could "kill" the other and KOs are highly unlikely. STALEMATE.


Wrong. Juggernaut's strength is potentially unlimited, but unlike the Hulk, it's not dependant on his state of mind. And if you think Hulk can duplicate Onslaught's feats, you are tripping. 2nd, Hulk will not knock Juggernaut to Jersey if Juggs is in motion. NOTHING STOPS THE JUGGERNAUT ONCE HE'S MOVING. You think Hulk can hit harder than a godblast from Thor? Juggernaut is quite capable of killing the Hulk, the Hulk is INCAPABLE of killing Classic Juggernaut. There are people who have slugged it out with Hulk and can hand him his ass. Juggernaut is one of them.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wrong. Juggernaut's strength is potentially unlimited, but unlike the Hulk, it's not dependant on his state of mind. And if you think Hulk can duplicate Onslaught's feats, you are tripping. 2nd, Hulk will not knock Juggernaut to Jersey if Juggs is in motion. NOTHING STOPS THE JUGGERNAUT ONCE HE'S MOVING. You think Hulk can hit harder than a godblast from Thor? Juggernaut is quite capable of killing the Hulk, the Hulk is INCAPABLE of killing Classic Juggernaut. There are people who have slugged it out with Hulk and can hand him his ass. Juggernaut is one of them.

Opinion taken and understood. I still say a pissed Hulk can easily out perform Juggernaut in any Physical feat.

And Hulks feats>>>Juggernauts.

Who cares if Hulk can get stronger?

Since when is a fight won by just pure physical strength?

Everyone agrees that Namor is weaker than Hulk right?
You see where I'm going with this...

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Opinion taken and understood. I still say a pissed Hulk can easily out perform Juggernaut in any Physical feat.

And Hulks feats>>>Juggernauts.

Strength isn't everything.

Obviously Hulk will get stronger but Juggy will always be more invulnerable than Hulk.

Juggernaut for the win. After a looooong battle.

Originally posted by bigbran
Who cares if Hulk can get stronger?

Since when is a fight won by just pure physical strength?

Everyone agrees that Namor is weaker than Hulk right?
You see where I'm going with this...

Thats actually my point. I stated that Hulk would get so powerful that he would wind up knocking Juggs out of viewable range. Thats exactly where the physical strength would come into play. It wouldnt harm Juggs, but he sure as hell can be knocked around physically....

Thus the Stalemate. By the time Juggs gets back (Which I doubt - he would find the fight pointless) Hulk is on to other things.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Thats actually my point. I stated that Hulk would get so powerful that he would wind up knocking Juggs out of viewable range. Thats exactly where the physical strength would come into play. It wouldnt harm Juggs, but he sure as hell can be knocked around physically....

Thus the Stalemate. By the time Juggs gets back (Which I doubt - he would find the fight pointless) Hulk is on to other things.

you've convinced me to vote for zod

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Thats actually my point. I stated that Hulk would get so powerful that he would wind up knocking Juggs out of viewable range. Thats exactly where the physical strength would come into play. It wouldnt harm Juggs, but he sure as hell can be knocked around physically....

Thus the Stalemate. By the time Juggs gets back (Which I doubt - he would find the fight pointless) Hulk is on to other things.

Based on a simple psych profile of both Cain and Hulk neither will ever give up a fight.

Physically punching Juggy is next to useless thanks to his forcefield BTW.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Thats actually my point. I stated that Hulk would get so powerful that he would wind up knocking Juggs out of viewable range. Thats exactly where the physical strength would come into play. It wouldnt harm Juggs, but he sure as hell can be knocked around physically....

Thus the Stalemate. By the time Juggs gets back (Which I doubt - he would find the fight pointless) Hulk is on to other things. Yes... when has Hulk ever gotten that mad right at the beginning of the fight, to bfr ANYONE?

Also, that is Hulk's only option... funny...

What is to stop Juggernaut from pulling the Ben Grimm stopper?

I think Juggernaut is basically downplayed in every single Hulk fight he is put in... no one looks at what he can do, they only look at Hulk's strength, which should be non-existent in this thread.

Also, about the every single Hulk fight thing... this has been done before... many times.

You guys do know there is already a large thread devoted to this topic

Originally posted by janus77
WarHulk's proof that physical ("celestial tech enhanced" might will overcome Cyttorak's charm, thus this inevitably will resolve to Hulk's favour. eventually.

the issue is whether Hulk gets the time to get so strong and/or is motivated enough to clobber Juggernaut.

don't think Juggernaut has anything in his arsenal that he can do to Hulk, to permanently put him out of commission but, he could definitely knock out some versions of The Hulk and that's as close to a victory as it gets with many super powered characters.

War Hulk is proof that celestial tech can overcome Juggernaut's enchantment. Nothing more.

Every other physical fight that the Juggernaut has had is evidence that he CANNOT BE DAMAGED BY PHYSICAL FORCE.

Even a GODBLAST merely tickled the Juggernaut.

All the Hulk can dole out is physical force. Exactly what the Juggernaut is totally immune to.

That, immediately, brings us to two scenarios; Juggernaut wins, or stalemate.

As Banner ages, and the Juggernaut does not, that means even a stalemate would, eventually, end in the Juggernaut's favor.

Hence, the Juggernaut wins ten out of ten, if only because he CAN'T lose.

Also; this has been done before.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Please Digi close this before it goes to chaos again...

Yes, for the love of God, stop the insanity of this matchup!!!!!

(runs away before the thread closes in)

Originally posted by Newjak
You guys do know there is already a large thread devoted to this topic

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

O RLY?

you know people be reasonable and understanding please
as the rules say unless otherwise stated it is the current juggernaught
so when i read the thread thats what i see

now if anybody has been reading up on juggs it is more than REASONABLE that hulk can win
alot of classic juggs this and classic juggs that,but in recent story arcs he just got back the gem,and prior to getting it back he was fluctuating in power level,it is not clear if he is going to ever use it again(i have not read the latest excalibur)

classic juggs wins 8/10
hulk wins vs current juggs 7/10
thats how i see it as of now

Versus current Juggernaut? Hulk wins 10/10.

Versus classic, all he can do is lose.

Originally posted by Priest
this has been done before.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/15217_1-juggernaut-or-the-hulk
I'd say fight would result in a stailmate, edge to hulk.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

O RLY? Yes it is the second longest thread in KMC excluding the Off-Topic thread