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Question
If Elizabeth wants to be a pirate and be free why is she with Will? Why doesn't she want to be with Jack. Elizabeth being with Will in Port Royal is the opposite what she wants.


The Response

>> If Elizabeth wants to be a pirate and be free ...

What makes you think Elizabeth wants to be a pirate?

>> why is she with Will?

The last you saw, she wasn't even talking to Will.

>> Why doesn't she want to be with Jack.

Who says she doesn't want to be with Jack?

>> Elizabeth being with Will in Port Royal is the opposite what she wants.

Who says Elizabeth is going to be in Port Royal?

I don't mind questions about the Pirate movies, but it's a waste of time to answer questions about random speculations on what might be in the next pirate movie.

http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/index.cgi?read=95427

Is that from Terry?

yes he posted it on wordplayer

*gasp*

lol I feel sorry for Terry, he seem so frustrated lol awe.

and cleverly dodged the question completely, by turning tables and asking questions back.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
and cleverly dodged the question completely, by turning tables and asking questions back.

EXACTLY!!! I'm happy he didn't dismiss the thought of JE completely but I wouldn't get my hoped up! right now they're both really frustrated that ppl are making all these rumors and speculation and they're just trying to stop it.

Yep, keeping the triangle alive. Tormenting us all. Yeah, I can understand how it would be frustrating for a lot of people to criticize what you wrote and demand things be a certain way, but come on. He doesn't have to go on all these boards and answer these questions. He wrote POTC and Shrek for goodness sake. He can afford to remain absent from these message boards, can't he? He's just doing what they always do, which is stirring the waters and making us talk more, and then getting upset because of all the talk.

yeah...like Terry or Ted would really answer any of those questions with a straight answer...but what gets me...that he even replied at all...

Terry's Frustrations coming through:

I don't mind questions about the Pirate movies, but it's a waste of time to answer questions about random speculations on what might be in the next pirate movie.


Go figure....so the trailer is coming out in what 9 days????

Let's not bother Terry or Ted no more

We are getting our trailer, and we will get our answers in the movie

i agree Terry seems frustrated we willget our trailer whichwill help a bit

Willo, those questions are posted on his own forum. He and Ted created a forum to discuss film making, movies and script writing, and it has been invaded by people asking (almost daily) about the love triangle.


They are not only wasting TnT's time by doing so, but also taking up unnecessary bandwidth with annoying questions. TnT have a right to put their foot down finally, especially on their own forum.


I think the most interesting thing Terry said in that post is the question he asks about Elizabeth not necessarily wanting to be a pirate. That's an interesting point, and maybe he's trying to gently lead us in a different direction on how to interperate Liz's character.


Or he could just be trying to be vague to drive us nuts.

um, have to agree with Willo. T and T talk about the love triangle constantly themselves. its their choice to respond to such questions, and responding with annoyance seems rather immature to me, for who they are. They should have the webmaster leave a statement to the effect of: "Please ask serious questions and stop trying to weedle spoilers from film 3" or whatever. In the past they have simply removed posts they dont want to answer to/deal with. I don't think insulting people is the right way to go for them. If they really want their forum to remain solely about scripting (and not use the site for their own publicity, which they do shamelessly, as they should) then they shouldnt have a discussing place for pirates. Because they're inevitably going to get some die hard fans who dont care a wit about scripting and just want to pester them with questions. its silly to assume otherwise. plus, in the past, they often respond well to such pestering questions by going in depth on characters and situations. they are just very arbitrary (dare i say, moody) in the questions they choose to answer, etc.

also, i dont think his question about elizabeth not wanting to be a pirate is relevant at all. he responded to every single comment with a similar question (by also emphasizing the disintegrated relationship of will/liz). plus, it doesnt matter whether liz wants to be a pirate or not, as she is going to get thrust into a more central role of piracy in film 3 whether she likes it or not.

I really agree with kate, and willo...

Terry is just annoyed on all the same questions. If there is a love triangle or not?

I personaly think there never was a love triangle. And I think its been resolved already also.

Other than that, those questions are questions that you can just see in the movie itself. T&T are giving us symbols and hints--not to mention a lot of foreshadowing in these movies right on our faces.

Very true, what everyone has said. Personally, I think Elizabeth and whoever else will have their kisses/moments etc. and then Elizabeth will become a pirate captin or something.

I hope Lizzy, Will, Barbossa and the rest of the crew all stay with Jack and join him on the Black Pearl, all become buddies lol this is corny, and sail off into the sunset horizon and live happily ever after!

that's my dream as well, though i dont think it's likely to happen anymore. that would end the film on an up-note... an adventure note, the music could pick up, and we're left feeling joyous and adventurous, etc.

ahm...i donīt know but... i think that in the past terry and ted said that they made the most correct choice and something like one side will have to join second side ... or i really donīt know what exactly ... i wrote it probably wrong but something like that ... we had it here before ... i donīt know where but try to find it ... coz unfortunately I donīt have any time at all now...

so i think they made one choice... then...probably it is - J/L or W/L coz one side will have to join that other side... so JL must join WL or conversely...

yeah, I remember hearing that too...and the way it was said, I think it's J/L will have to accept W/L

^^^but that was way back in August before they resumed filming AWE again after the break...so who knows...that could all be different now based on the audience reaction to AWE and J/E

nooo lovethemtigers , do not allow your faith to sink ,please!!! i hope JL has still chance to survive and i donīt see any reason to think JL donīt exist now ... i know ... it isnīt easy to still have a faith but iīm at least trying to have it ... i see a chance to have W/L only because gore or writers wanted it to be simple ... but i will be JL forever i know and i always knew that JL is the best choice but if they donīt realize it , later they will have to admit that w/l was a big mistake !!! and if they will have a lesser profit becasue of w/l (then i wish them !!!) - then it will be a pitty a shame !!! but still i hope they wonīt or didnīt make this big mistake...

Originally posted by JacksSweet
ahm...i donīt know but... i think that in the past terry and ted said that they made the most correct choice and something like one side will have to join second side ... or i really donīt know what exactly ... i wrote it probably wrong but something like that ... we had it here before ... i donīt know where but try to find it ... coz unfortunately I donīt have any time at all now...

T and T did not say anything specifically about THIS particular love triangle (which they sometimes deny existing, sometimes call a pyramid, and sometimes say is already solved... ) but they did make comments about love triangles in general, to the effect of, in a successful love triangle, those cheering for the losing side will for some reason switch over and be cheering for the other side by the end anyways.
this could swing both ways for this story. Rumours of Jack trading Elizabeth, Will sacrificing everything to save his father and/or all of the pirates, and Elizabeth and Jack having fewer funny/witty scenes together seem to point in the direction of W/L, with T and T attempting to make us all want that by devaluing the J/L relationship and assuring us that somehow, the W/L relationship is important to the survival of piracy and happiness of all. of course, no matter how clever they get, i reckon they won't win over the really serious J/L shippers or even those who simply appreciate the daring and sometimes scandalous side of these films. However, if they get 75% of people to agree with them, it wont matter much, and that 25% of controversy will simply add more publicity.
Of course, it could swing the other way, as rumours of W/L continuing to fight and grow apart, Jack still admitting to have serious feelings for Elizabeth, and Elizabeth becoming a pirate lord would suggest. However, I could more easily see Elizabeth ending up alone as a captain than for T and T to straight out end Jack and Elizabeth together in a purely romantic way. Their relationship has always been based on comraderie, passion, physical chemistry, and a battle of wits... so I would prefer to see them continue that rather than end unconditionally together (which i think would be boring and strange). make sense?

i couldn't agree more, Kate

If they DID decide to give us some subtle jack/liz moments, then i would much more prefer that than have them end the films together as a couple...i mean, we all saw what happened to will/liz in DMC, right??

The first film had the climax of the kiss and we knew they were happy when the film ended...

but thats boring and been done, and by the time the second film came along they had to put in something different...and whats more different that jack sparrow???

The second film also ended on a kiss; but the audience were left wondering which way elizabeth was going to go, and what her real intentions were with the kiss...

if the same happens with the third, and it is a jack/liz kiss then where do they go from there??

jack and liz's relationship isnt something that you can describe easily.
They have passion, and they dont want to want eachother, but they can't help themselves...

I honestly cannot see Elizabeth or any other characters seperate themselves. I think it will leave us like "wait-what!?". The title At World's End means something, people. Pirate era is at stake. A new era is beginning. And Liz is finally experiencing the true life of a pirate is not always all fun and cute little treassures and adventures.

There is no love triangle--it's been resolved. Actually there never was a love traingle! What is the point of Elizabeth being a captain and sailing off by herself?! That doesn't solve anything. Elziabeth is not a ping pong to be bouncing on and off with Jack and Will and then just decide "oh we just leave Elizabeth sail away by herself."

I do have to disagree about the love triangle/pyramid/Rubik's Cube being resolved. I'm sure it gets resolved in AWE since we are supposed to feel a sense of actual ending, but as of the end of DMC, it is not resolved. We've discussed we have no idea what Liz is going to do. She has neither made sure Will knew she kissed Jack just to save the others nor thrown her engagement ring in his face and declared her undying love for our pirate captain. There are hints that lead people both ways depending on interpretation, so the way I see it, nothing is resolved. Hence, another movie.

There is no love triangle. Never was. And Im pretty sure on where Liz heart's truly lies as well with Jack. Jack is probably th eonly person who knows what Liz truly wants. And It's not just about choosing either Will or Jack. This isn't love connections.

Surfchikpir8fan runs in excitedly.

SURFCHIKPIR8FAN: (chanting) Sunset happy ending - sunset happy ending - sunset hap ... (gets weird looks). I rest my case! (tiptoes back out).

i am totally clueless to how this movie will end and what it has enstore for us....I'm hoping and praying for J/L but I just don't know anymore.....

i think Jack will end with liz becuz sorry i am in a rush so i am doing text letters anyways not just becuz i am j/l but becuz tnt are not going to make Jack sad in the end he is the main character when you think POTC ppl think of Jack not will also there is no hiding the fact that liz is attracted to Jack there is passion not bump in the road will and her are not peas in a pod her and Jack are what ever happened to Jack seeing how her TRUE heart is the same as his she chose Jack in the end of DMC he got the sloppy kiss not will she is going to find him not marry will
anywho we should not lose the faith well i got to go to school keeo the faith luv y'all

u know i noticed something else dont know if its been caught b4 but here it is:

in COTBP when Will and Jack are fighting in the Blacksmiths Shop and Jack Throws sand or dirt on Will's face.....Will says "YOU CHEATED" and then Jack says "PIRATE"...calling himself one.

Well in DMC when Liz Kisses Jack and shackles him and then JACK says "PIRATE" to her, was his subtle way of saying "YOU CHEATED" lol...sorry i know its not important but i was watching COTBP yesterday and when i heard it, i was like OMG no wonder he says that in DMC...it's another call back to COTBP!! lol!

thats a very god observation! i think he did kinda mean that i mean she shakled him to the mast by kissing him instead there are more ways to shakle a man to a mast rather than passion so i think he sorta emphasized that and calling her a pirate is what she is

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I do have to disagree about the love triangle/pyramid/Rubik's Cube being resolved. I'm sure it gets resolved in AWE since we are supposed to feel a sense of actual ending, but as of the end of DMC, it is not resolved. We've discussed we have no idea what Liz is going to do. She has neither made sure Will knew she kissed Jack just to save the others nor thrown her engagement ring in his face and declared her undying love for our pirate captain. There are hints that lead people both ways depending on interpretation, so the way I see it, nothing is resolved. Hence, another movie.

rubik's cube.... hahahahaha oh gee there's one i havent heard. lol.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
u know i noticed something else dont know if its been caught b4 but here it is:

in COTBP when Will and Jack are fighting in the Blacksmiths Shop and Jack Throws sand or dirt on Will's face.....Will says "YOU CHEATED" and then Jack says "PIRATE"...calling himself one.

Well in DMC when Liz Kisses Jack and shackles him and then JACK says "PIRATE" to her, was his subtle way of saying "YOU CHEATED" lol...sorry i know its not important but i was watching COTBP yesterday and when i heard it, i was like OMG no wonder he says that in DMC...it's another call back to COTBP!! lol!

Omg, you're right. And Im still thinking about what you keep saying when Jack said "save me" to Will.

And to me, by the end of DMC is all a call back from COTBP. For instance like the one PirateDiva said, and the part when she said "im not sorry" and Jack said in the end of COTBP "...Im sorry."

Originally posted by Surreal_44

I think the most interesting thing Terry said in that post is the question he asks about Elizabeth not necessarily wanting to be a pirate. That's an interesting point, and maybe he's trying to gently lead us in a different direction on how to interperate Liz's character.




thats what you think..

IMO you're more right withthe very last thing you said

Whoa, lovelyone returneth. Awesome! I have to agree with surreal about the quote in a small way. I think she's right in that maybe Elizabeth doesn't so much desire to be a pirate, as much as she desires her freedom. But then again, it depends largely on her definition of what being a pirate means. Her opinion may change by the end of AWE. What was interesting about the DMC script in the "kiss" scene is that after Jack calls her a pirate, she appears stung by the remark. So it doesn't seem as though she particularly enjoys the title.

It's not piracy what she's wanting. Is the escape of her uptight society. She just wants that freedom. Not pirating and plundering.

oh please, Elizabeth LOVES a good plunder, when you keep in mind that not all plunder is silver and gold, mate . Who completed the only true act of piracy in film 2 (hijacking a ship without firing a shot) and loved it? She might not turn pirate for the rest of her days, but i would definitely argue that she enjoys the odd bit of trickery.

If she doesn't want to be a pirate why is she going to be captain of a ship.

Like I said, her definition of the word pirate at the end of DMC was not necessarily a positive one. Once she realizes that there is more to pirating than the word, and that sometimes being a pirate is not such a bad thing when compared to a 'society man' like Beckett, her opinion may change.
I don't think she fully realized what being a true Pirate entailed until her decisions at the end of DMC. It means sometimes that hard decisions will be made and I think she's a little disgusted with herself at the choice she made to send Jack to the depths. That being said, it seems to me from the events of AWE that she doesn't so much choose piracy as piracy chooses her. Her captaincy is thrust upon her in a way that she doesn't have much of a choice, the same with her outlaw status. Whether or not she chooses to remain a pirate, will probably be at the heart of where her character develops in AWE.

Well if Gov. Swan dies in AWE like i heard he is suppose too....then there is nothing back at Port Royal that Liz has to go back for!! Plus like savvysparrow said she is now an OUTLAW!! so her resolution will have to be out at sea somewhere!

I actually meant to put a question mark at the end of that, apologies

as in i was asking surreal a question on why she thinks that

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Well if Gov. Swan dies in AWE like i heard he is suppose too....then there is nothing back at Port Royal that Liz has to go back for!! Plus like savvysparrow said she is now an OUTLAW!! so her resolution will have to be out at sea somewhere!

I agree. But, it's all up to the writers and I believe up to Keira herself. She knows what Elizabeth wants. And it's obvious that Jack understands Liz's desire for freedom.

It's not the same kind of want to be a pirate that she had before. It is more a cry for freedom and to do things on selfish impulse than the actual piracy. She likes the freedom piracy provides, but she gets disillusioned with it. It's not all fun and games as she thought it would be.

And Jack thinks the same^^

He is not having all that freedom in piracy. He is constantly running from trouble(Davy, EITC). He is not plundering so much anymore--in other words, Jack is not enjoying his freedom because he is using all his time of freedom in running away from the law and Davy.

How can you relax and enjoy freedom when everyone wants to go after you and kill ya.

Hence the paradox. What does it mean to be free? So to all those people that think POTC are just popcorn, dumb summer movies... you're wrong! They full of paradoxes! The big two are what does it mean to be good and what does it mean to be free. And in AWE, we will know the answers to both.