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With more people, in the U.S., getting divorced more than people getting and staying marriage now, is it even worth getting married anymore? My opinion, basically, is don't get married in the first place. In this day and age, I say it's not worth it.

Maybe it was back then. But now. Nah...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
With more people, in the U.S., getting divorced more than people getting and staying marriage now, is it even worth getting married anymore? My opinion, basically, is don't get married in the first place. In this day and age, I say it's not worth it.

Maybe it was back then. But now. Nah...


Sure there is some truth to this.

I'm married to my bills...I just want a divorce.

No, because being married means you have to be faithfull.

- Cindy

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
No, because being married means you have to be faithfull.

- Cindy

I wouldn't say it means you have to be faithful.

There is a certain level of trust that is assumed but not concrete

People cheat so apparently you don't HAVE to be faithful.

Originally posted by Soleran
I wouldn't say it means you have to be faithful.

There is a certain level of trust that is assumed but not concrete

People cheat so apparently you don't HAVE to be faithful.

You do in the eyes of God.

- Cindy

I just think that men have NOTHING to gain from marriage these days.

Like say for example me, everything I can do in marriage I can do without getting married. So what's the point.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I just think that men have NOTHING to gain from marriage these days.

Like say for example me, everything I can do in marriage I can do without getting married. So what's the point.

Translation: "No one will marry my sorry ass."

Yes, it's worth getting married.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Yes, it's worth getting married.

Are you married to a nice girl Capt?

- Cindy

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
With more people, in the U.S., getting divorced more than people getting and staying marriage now, is it even worth getting married anymore? My opinion, basically, is don't get married in the first place. In this day and age, I say it's not worth it.

Maybe it was back then. But now. Nah...

D-dude? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439711

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
Are you married to a nice girl Capt?

- Cindy

Originally posted by Quiero Mota


What's so funny

- Cindy

Originally posted by Robtard
Translation: "No one will marry my sorry ass."

My girlfriend kinda proposed to me yesterday. Well, she asked me to ask her (now). Which is why i'm bringing this up now.

I'm a practical guy. And i told her to give me a day with the news. (she's no longer buying my "I need some (more) time" verse.) I'm really into and I thought, what do i have to gain and lose by marrying her, or any other chick in that case. And, unfortunately, there were more negatives than positives. Not only with her but i don't see the point with any other chick. And it's not about being ready or not with me. I'd be prepared for it right now if i were any other man but,...i dunno. I mean, i love her/women but i just don't see the point. It's like were kinda married already anyway. What'll change, her last name. Big deal.

Like i always, all the time and everytime do things for a reason. I pride myself on that. And i see no reason in getting married.

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
Are you married to a nice girl Capt?

- Cindy

No, I'm holding out for an english gypsy.

"I'm really into her and i thought,......" is what i meant to write in the 2nd sentence in the second paragraph.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
My girlfriend kinda proposed to me yesterday. Well, she asked me to ask her (now). Which is why i'm bringing this up now.

Does she know you're not white?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I'm holding out for an english gypsy.

I see, does she know?

- Cindy

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Does she know you're not white?

yea but does your partner know you gay? hehe..

I digress folks. Point being, don't get married. Take that advice and do whatever you want with it.

Just do the correct thing. And that's considering it first.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
yea but does your partner know you gay? hehe..


Capt is gay.....! Mercy me, no wonder I was laughed at. Silly me!

- Cindy

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
What's so funny

- Cindy

...........

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
yea but does your partner know you gay? hehe..

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
...........


Yup, got it now

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
Capt is gay.....! Mercy me, no wonder I was laughed at. Silly me!

- Cindy

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
yea but does your partner know you gay? hehe..

I think he's starting to figure it out. I've tried to be careful and not let him see me looking at other men. But, sometimes I do it without even realizing it.

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
I see, does she know?

- Cindy

Sadly he does not. I wonder if he'll ever know that an ocean away there's someone who loves him very much.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I think he's starting to figure it out. I've tried to be careful and not let him see me looking at other men. But, sometimes I do it without even realizing it.



Sadly he does not. I wonder if he'll ever know that an ocean away there's someone who loves him very much.

It's a guy Goodnight sweet Captain. I always loved David Bowie songs.

- Cindy

Originally posted by Cindy Bear
Are you married to a nice girl Capt?

- Cindy Originally posted by Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I think he's starting to figure it out. I've tried to be careful and not let him see me looking at other men. But, sometimes I do it without even realizing it.

r0GxvTwQiGM

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I digress folks. Point being, don't get married. Take that advice and do whatever you want with it.

Just do the correct thing. And that's considering it first.
ok, is she like pressuring you? backing you into a corner? if that's the case, then DO NOT LET HER GET AWAY WITH IT. DO NOT GIVE IN. i speak from experience, trust me. if you want more details, then pm me, i am not about to share it out in the open. if what i have to tell you actually helps you, then i will have done my part in helping a fellow member.
i have learned the hard way. thats why, now, i am taking it slow. we are deeply in love, committed and exclusive to one another, taking it day by day, just enjoying being with each other in the moment, living in the here and now. and i'll be honest, life has never been better. there is no pressure and we are 100% comfortable in our relationship together.

and shesssss outta here. bye sock

whos the sock? whos outta here? is there a female sock here? tell me!!!

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
With more people, in the U.S., getting divorced more than people getting and staying marriage now, is it even worth getting married anymore? My opinion, basically, is don't get married in the first place. In this day and age, I say it's not worth it.

Maybe it was back then. But now. Nah...

if its what you want to do, then do it...

i almost did it, and i may still do...

What was the point of getting married in the 1st place? It never made since to me.

Originally posted by King Nothing
What was the point of getting married in the 1st place? It never made since to me.
to become one with the person you love the most, the person whose life and welfare are more important to you than your own. the thing is, the feeling has to be mutual. you have to be ready to share everything with them, your whole life. they come first to you, and vice versa.

If you believe in love and you love someone and think they are the one then there is a point in marriage, my grandparents were married for more than 50 years so love, commitment and faithfulness is still present, just rare. :P

I am still young, therefore obviously can't properly answer this. However i cannot imagine me ever getting married. Why? Well i believe commitment with anyone comes from getting to know each other, not necasarilly having to propse marriage because you can still love that person equally without marrying them! Also one thing that has come to my notice is the amount of people whom are divorcing nowadays. It costs a lot of money and you can never gurantee it will last so why bother?

I'm 22 and I've been married for 2 and a half years, my husband was 18 when we married. He was 16 and I was 17 when we met, he propsed after 3 months but we waited till we'd lived together 2 years before we actually got wed. We are insanely happy and the wedding was awesome. It's worth it if you know you're in love, you have complete trust (this from one of the most paranoid people ever!) and you know it will last. Yeah, we argue, we're both passionate fighters and things get broken and we tell each other we're gonna leave but we both know it's never going to happen. Now we're trying for our first kid. Don't rule out marriage altogether, just make sure you've got the right person and suddenly the idea won't seem so bad. I never believed in marriage before we met.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
to become one with the person you love the most, the person whose life and welfare are more important to you than your own. the thing is, the feeling has to be mutual. you have to be ready to share everything with them, your whole life. they come first to you, and vice versa. Can't you just do that with out getting married?

you can, but you know how traditions are.

I beleive in marriage but it's not ever something I push on my boyfriend who doesnt beleieve in marriage at all. We love each other very much but marriage is not even in our vocabulary right now.

you have to both want it. you have to both be ready for it. you have to want the same things.

if not, it will fail.

bottom line is how you feel towards each other. you can be just living together for years, love each other like a husband and wife, and thats enough.

Damn, Cindy Whirly got banned already? Better question, it took her (him) this long to get banned?

BTW, how many times is this thread going to be re-hashed with different combinations of words to make the thread unique?

Women love getting married. Who invented marriage anyway? And why..

I know some dudes in their 40's who have never been married and are quite happy. They never get laid, but still they're happy.

that sounds miserable.

Originally posted by botankus
They never get laid, but still they're happy.

.....

I guess the point is, for all those who want to remain eternally single, there isn't a whole lot out there when you get into your forties and beyond, and you will certainly have less to offer.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Women love getting married. Who invented marriage anyway? And why..

To quote Doug Stanhope:

"If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you lay next to your loved one and say 'Damn, baby, our love is so pure and so real that we need to make this legal. We need the government and lawyers and shit.'? No.".

-AC

Originally posted by botankus


I guess the point is, for all those who want to remain eternally single, there isn't a whole lot out there when you get into your forties and beyond, and you will certainly have less to offer.
when you are in your twenties, you dont want to get married. i was pretty sure i would never be married, or in a serious relationship. it usually takes a dose of true love to make you see the light.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To quote Doug Stanhope:

"If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you lay next to your loved one and say 'Damn, baby, our love is so pure and so real that we need to make this legal. We need the government and lawyers and shit.'? No.".

-AC

That's assuming that marriage is an institution that was based at all on love.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's assuming that marriage is an institution that was based at all on love.

There are many reasons to get married, but if love isn't at least a major part of that reasoning 'you'd' be best not to get married. Extremes withstadning, e.g. marrying to give someone your citizenship.

unfortunately, people get married sometimes for all the wrong reasons. if you watch clerks 2, dante was getting married to that **** because he thought it was what was expected of him, to make his life better. i actually know a guy who did this, and it lasted like three months. if you and your mate are truly in love, and want to get marrried, more power to you. if you arent ready, you stay together and wait for both parties to be ready. you cannot rush it or force it, or it will end in disaster.

Originally posted by Robtard
There are many reasons to get married, but if love isn't at least a major part of that reasoning 'you'd' be best not to get married. Extremes withstadning, e.g. marrying to give someone your citizenship.

That's assuming that marriage is an institution that was based at all on love.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's assuming that marriage is an institution that was based at all on love.

Well, if you consider in the rituals and motions of most marriage ceremonies, it would stand that "love" had something to do with it. Now, if you're getting married for others reasons, be it wealth, forced into, comfort etc., I am not sure how that takes away from the original intention of marriage.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if you consider in the rituals and motions of most marriage ceremonies, it would stand that "love" had something to do with it. Now, if you're getting married for others reasons, be it wealth, forced into, comfort etc., I am not sure how that takes away from the original intention of marriage.
thats what i said.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats what i said.

You did?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
unfortunately, people get married sometimes for all the wrong reasons. if you watch clerks 2, dante was getting married to that **** because he thought it was what was expected of him, to make his life better. i actually know a guy who did this, and it lasted like three months. if you and your mate are truly in love, and want to get marrried, more power to you. if you arent ready, you stay together and wait for both parties to be ready. you cannot rush it or force it, or it will end in disaster.
yes sir.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To quote Doug Stanhope:

"If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you lay next to your loved one and say 'Damn, baby, our love is so pure and so real that we need to make this legal. We need the government and lawyers and shit.'? No.".

-AC

I like that Vash sig ya got cause I think he's sick with it so not to be an a$$ and to quote Jimmy Van Heusen.

"Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage."

In other words, how does your quote, that i didn't get, because of the semi-irrelevancy of it, answer my question.

?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's assuming that marriage is an institution that was based at all on love.


I'm not sure if my point is being understood. The key words in my post are marriage, institution and love.

marriage IS an institution. the foundation of that institution is love, honesty and trust.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I like that Vash sig ya got cause I think he's sick with it so not to be an a$$ and to quote Jimmy Van Heusen.

"Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage."

In other words, how does your quote, that i didn't get, because of the semi-irrelevancy of it, answer my question.

?

You're asking me how it answers your question while, at the same time, telling me you don't get it and then having the nerve to say it was irrelevant?

It means no, it's not worth getting married. There's no logical point. Just because people want to, and feel they can justify using the ceremony that is marriage, doesn't mean there is any logical reason to do so.

Either way, it has nothing to do with love.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're asking me how it answers your question while, at the same time, telling me you don't get it and then having the nerve to say it was irrelevant?

It means no, it's not worth getting married. There's no logical point. Just because people want to, and feel they can justify using the ceremony that is marriage, doesn't mean there is any logical reason to do so.

Either way, it has nothing to do with love.

-AC

No logical point? Ever hear of tax breaks/benefits? I mean, if you plan on being with someone the rest of your life and you plan of having kids with them, marriage is clearly logical from a financial standpoint.

As far as love, that is clearly subjective; some people get married as a physical sign/gesture to show their love; granted it may not be necessary as in the marriage in of itself won't make the love greater or lesser, but it's there.

marriage as a financial advantage. ok. this is true, you get tax breaks and stuff, especially if you have kids, but marrying for this reason is a one way ticket to disaster. you cant marry someone because it makes sense financially. you marry someone because you LOVE them. you marry someone because you BOTH want it, and you BOTH are ready to spend the rest of your lives together. if you are with someone, and you both feel this way, NO, it doesnt mean you HAVE to get married. you could go the rest of your lives WITHOUT being married to each other, but be just as happy. the key to it all is that you BOTH have to be ready for it. if he or she is not ready, and you truly love them, you will WAIT for them to be ready. all that really matters is what is in your heart, how you feel towards each other.
i dont really agree with the christian outlook on marriage, that you have to marry. that if you have sex out of wedlock, you go to hell. that if you have a child out of wedlock, you go to hell. all that matters is that in your hearts, in your minds, you are one with your partner.

Originally posted by Robtard
No logical point? Ever hear of tax breaks/benefits? I mean, if you plan on being with someone the rest of your life and you plan of having kids with them, marriage is clearly logical from a financial standpoint.

As far as love, that is clearly subjective; some people get married as a physical sign/gesture to show their love; granted it may not be necessary as in the marriage in of itself won't make the love greater or lesser, but it's there.

Note where I said "EITHER WAY, it's nothing to do with love.". There are other ways to get benefits besides marriage.

As for your second part; No, you're wrong.

No matter how much someone says they want it, their partnership/relationship/love does not need it. I'm not saying people are wrong for wanting it, I'm saying that outside of any monetary purpose, there is no solid, logical reason. Entering a legally binding contract for love? Bs, no logical explanation for it.

It doesn't add anything at all. Proof:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you marry someone because you LOVE them. you marry someone because you BOTH want it, and you BOTH are ready to spend the rest of your lives together. if you are with someone, and you both feel this way, NO, it doesnt mean you HAVE to get married. you could go the rest of your lives WITHOUT being married to each other, but be just as happy. the key to it all is that you BOTH have to be ready for it. if he or she is not ready, and you truly love them, you will WAIT for them to be ready. all that really matters is what is in your heart, how you feel towards each other.

"You marry someone because you love them.", followed by no reason as to why that would be necessary.

People want it because they are conditioned to want it.

If religion didn't exist and you found a bible in a library, hardly anybody would pick it up, read it and think, "I'd like to live my life this way!". It's conditioning.

-AC

i stated that people get married "because they are in love AND they both want it."
if it's what they both want, then it's the right thing to do. if they arent ready, then go slow, take it a day at a time, and see where the future leads you.
yes, i agree we are conditioned to want marriage. read the middle part of my post for my response to this.

I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC

Click, ho.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC
so one day, lets say you meet....amy...just a name, for arguments sake. lets say that you love her with all your heart, she is everything to you, that you want to spend every waking moment with her, day and night. you are utterly and completely devoted to her and want her to have her children. she feels he same about you. now, one day, she hints at marriage. you are gonna say no because it is not logical?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC

And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.

Originally posted by Robtard
And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.
EXCELLENT post. VERY well said.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so one day, lets say you meet....amy...just a name, for arguments sake. lets say that you love her with all your heart, she is everything to you, that you want to spend every waking moment with her, day and night. you are utterly and completely devoted to her and want her to have her children. she feels he same about you. now, one day, she hints at marriage. you are gonna say no because it is not logical?
waiting.....

You know your problem, RJ? So impatient.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so one day, lets say you meet....amy...just a name, for arguments sake. lets say that you love her with all your heart, she is everything to you, that you want to spend every waking moment with her, day and night. you are utterly and completely devoted to her and want her to have her children. she feels he same about you. now, one day, she hints at marriage. you are gonna say no because it is not logical?

I'm gonna say no because if we're so much in love and she still feels a legally binding ceremony will make things better, then she clearly doesn't "love" me as much as she says.

If she doesn't love me enough to break social conditioning, then she can forget it. Says a lot about her feelings.

Originally posted by Robtard
And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.

Nah, that's bs. There are plenty of more logical ways to express love physically than a legal/religious ceremony.

Have a plane write her name in the sky, get a star named after her, do whatever you want, hell, get married if it makes you happy. My point is, it's illogical, nothing to do with love at all. If it's a ceremony you truly want, make one up. My point is, marriage itself has nothing to do with love. People are conditioned to want it and there is no logical reason outside of monetary purposes as to why anybody should do it. Besides that, weddings are one of the most self-indulgent, self-important acts on the face of the Earth, in my opinion. Have you ever been to one? If you haven't; Take hours out of your own life to sit and watch two people sign a contract that isn't necessary anyway and then see how you feel. Bearing in mind the divorce rate in today's world.

Whether or not people feel it is, that's subjective. The objectivity of it is simple; Love and marriage are not inherently connected, people connect them. Marriage was invented to make sure there could be benefits in the event of failing love.

Marriage achieves nothing you didn't have in the first place, emotionally, physically. Legality is all it gives you.

In the event of a break up, any sensible person would want it to be as painless as possible. Not be tied up in court fighting with someone you love, or worse...once loved.

You're just as conditioned, fighting to justify marriage. Not gonna happen. I have no problem with love, I respect love highly, which is why I hate marriage.

-AC

i gotta ask. did something happen to you? has a girl hurt you before? i have a friend who thinks like you do, and he had his heart handed to him by some crazy byatch. if you'd rather not say, cool. i know its a personal question.

i just cant believe that in the prementioned scenario you would say no even if she wanted it. after all, in your mind she is "the one"....why not just give in to her? its not gonna change things much, and your lady will be happy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i gotta ask. did something happen to you? has a girl hurt you before? i have a friend who thinks like you do, and he had his heart handed to him by some crazy byatch. if you'd rather not say, cool. i know its a personal question.

i just cant believe that in the prementioned scenario you would say no even if she wanted it. after all, in your mind she is "the one"....why not just give in to her? its not gonna change things much, and your lady will be happy.

Everyone has been hurt, everyone has been happy. Even at my happiest I've never wanted marriage. I have the presense of mind to not let society make that decision for me. I get one life, I'm not going to spend it making choices that society makes me think I should.

You're EXACTLY RIGHT, RJ. It's not going to change much, or anything at all, so why do it? If she needs something so pointless, so frivolous and needless, if our love isn't enough, then I know all I need to know about her feelings for me. If having an amazing love, amazing relationship and amazing friendship is not enough, if a legally binding contract is what she needs for us to have a future, then it's curtains.

Something else to think about; You notice how men have to be the one to compromise? "Oh go on, it's just marriage, it'll make her happy.". Why is it us? Society makes sheep out of women, now they want marriage for no justifiable reason and WE'RE the assholes for not caving in? I call bullshit.

Marriage = The world's oldest Hallmark celebration.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Everyone has been hurt, everyone has been happy. Even at my happiest I've never wanted marriage. I have the presense of mind to not let society make that decision for me. I get one life, I'm not going to spend it making choices that society makes me think I should.

You're EXACTLY RIGHT, RJ. It's not going to change much, or anything at all, so why do it? If she needs something so pointless, so frivolous and needless, if our love isn't enough, then I know all I need to know about her feelings for me. If having an amazing love, amazing relationship and amazing friendship is not enough, if a legally binding contract is what she needs for us to have a future, then it's curtains.

Something else to think about; You notice how men have to be the one to compromise? "Oh go on, it's just marriage, it'll make her happy.". Why is it us? Society makes sheep out of women, now they want marriage for no justifiable reason and WE'RE the assholes for not caving in? I call bullshit.

Marriage = The world's oldest Hallmark celebration.

-AC
i never bought into the whole "society thinks i should do this" crap either. so i feel you on that. i do not, however, see it as frivolous and pointless. i think that if someone is with someone else, and they love each other as i posted in the hypothetical scenario, then they are'nt caving in or doing what society thinks they should do if they decide to get married. like if the guy wants to get married, and the woman loves him as i posted, then she should do it. OBVIOUSLY when she is ready, not a month or year or whenever from when he states his interests into entering a binding contract such as marriage, but when she is ready. if it takes a few years, he will wait for her. the door swings both ways. if she wants it, he should EVENTUALLY do it, and vice versa. the whole "things wouldnt change much" theory that we agree on works both ways.
also, a successful relationship hinges entirely upon EQUAL compromise. the guy makes sacrifices, just as the girl does. FJ and I have this down to a science. it took a while, but we have learnt to read each other and see who is more in need of whatever they want at that specific moment. sometimes its 50/50. sometimes its 70/30. sometimes its 90/10. but, it all averages out to 50/50, or pretty close to it.
someday you will change your tune, trust me. when i was 20 (you are 20, right?) there was NO WAY i was getting married. i was gonna be a Rogue forever. BUT....things happen, your outlook on life changes. things that happened to me (i think i told only Bardock about it via pm's) made me see life differently.
BTW: whats this hallmark conspiracy theory you speak of?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


Nah, that's bs. There are plenty of more logical ways to express love physically than a legal/religious ceremony.

Have a plane write her name in the sky, get a star named after her, do whatever you want, hell, get married if it makes you happy. My point is, it's illogical, nothing to do with love at all. If it's a ceremony you truly want, make one up. My point is, marriage itself has nothing to do with love. People are conditioned to want it and there is no logical reason outside of monetary purposes as to why anybody should do it. Besides that, weddings are one of the most self-indulgent, self-important acts on the face of the Earth, in my opinion. Have you ever been to one? If you haven't; Take hours out of your own life to sit and watch two people sign a contract that isn't necessary anyway and then see how you feel. Bearing in mind the divorce rate in today's world.

Whether or not people feel it is, that's subjective. The objectivity of it is simple; Love and marriage are not inherently connected, people connect them. Marriage was invented to make sure there could be benefits in the event of failing love.

Marriage achieves nothing you didn't have in the first place, emotionally, physically. Legality is all it gives you.

In the event of a break up, any sensible person would want it to be as painless as possible. Not be tied up in court fighting with someone you love, or worse...once loved.

You're just as conditioned, fighting to justify marriage. Not gonna happen. I have no problem with love, I respect love highly, which is why I hate marriage.

-AC

What's B.S. is you telling others of their feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

I'm conditioned... If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

Seems like your (possible) fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.

Originally posted by Robtard
What's B.S. is you telling others of their feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

I'm conditioned... If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

Seems like your (possible) fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.
insightful.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
or doing what society thinks they should do if they decide to get married. like if the guy wants to get married, and the woman loves him as i posted, then she should do it. OBVIOUSLY when she is ready, not a month or year or whenever from when he states his interests into entering a binding contract such as marriage, but when she is ready. if it takes a few years, he will wait for her. the door swings both ways. if she wants it, he should EVENTUALLY do it, and vice versa. the whole "things wouldnt change much" theory that we agree on works both ways.

It will always be society conditioning if you're not getting married for legal reasons. Why? Because there is simply no other reason to do so. Love doesn't enter into it at all. Love doesn't need marriage.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, a successful relationship hinges entirely upon EQUAL compromise. the guy makes sacrifices, just as the girl does. FJ and I have this down to a science.

Wake up someday and realise that you and FJ are not every couple in the world. The divorce rate tells a different tale.

It's clearly not all sacrifice from both, because marriage is conditioned and if one wants it and the other doesn't, who feels bad? Who feels obligated to change? The one WANTING to? No.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
it took a while, but we have learnt to read each other and see who is more in need of whatever they want at that specific moment. sometimes its 50/50. sometimes its 70/30. sometimes its 90/10. but, it all averages out to 50/50, or pretty close to it.
someday you will change your tune, trust me. when i was 20 (you are 20, right?) there was NO WAY i was getting married. i was gonna be a Rogue forever. BUT....things happen, your outlook on life changes. things that happened to me (i think i told only Bardock about it via pm's) made me see life differently.
BTW: whats this hallmark conspiracy theory you speak of?

Please don't dare be so presumptuous and desperate as to use the geriatric debate of "Someday you'll...". No. How about you let me decide what I'll do? Does that work? Swell.

"I said no way, but I did. That means you will!". No, it means you lacked the conviction to stick to your beliefs, RJ. It doesn't mean I'll abandon mine.

I never said I'd be a rogue, I said I'd never get married, I don't want to. That's a fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
What's B.S. is you telling others of their subjective feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to admit it, please.

Originally posted by Robtard
As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

That was never under argument, it was a side issue.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm conditioned... If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Seems like your fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.

Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It will always be society conditioning if you're not getting married for legal reasons. Why? Because there is simply no other reason to do so. Love doesn't enter into it at all. Love doesn't need marriage.



Wake up someday and realise that you and FJ are not every couple in the world. The divorce rate tells a different tale.

It's clearly not all sacrifice from both, because marriage is conditioned and if one wants it and the other doesn't, who feels bad? Who feels obligated to change? The one WANTING to? No.



Please don't dare be so presumptuous and desperate as to use the geriatric debate of "Someday you'll...". No. How about you let me decide what I'll do? Does that work? Swell.

"I said no way, but I did. That means you will!". No, it means you lacked the conviction to stick to your beliefs, RJ. It doesn't mean I'll abandon mine.

I never said I'd be a rogue, I said I'd never get married, I don't want to. That's a fact.



Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to admit it, please.



And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.



That was never under argument, it was a side issue.



You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.



You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.



Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC
so if someone who has experienced more than you gives you advice, or tries to tell you "i thought the same as you did, some day you will change your tune" do you just automatically blow them off?
honestly, you could be right. you could go the rest of your life without wanting to be married. but....odds are if you enter into a long term relationship, eventually she will want to get married. she will want to nest. she will get baby fever. now i am sure she will wait for you, say to herself "ok, AC isnt ready for marriage yet, but i love him. i will wait a while for him to be ready for it." she will be a trooper and be there for you. but....eventually she will grow tired of waiting. eventually she will give you the ultimatum. NOW.....if she gives you the ultimatum too sopn, and its like "marry me now or we are through", then i am sure you know to stick to your guns and tell her to stuff the white dress up her butt. but if you guys are together for years, everything is perfect, and she tells you "baby, i am sorry, but i NEED marriage. will you do this one little thing for me?" are you telling me that you would throw away a chance at pure happiness just because you dont believe in marriage? you wouldnt sacrifice a day in a tuxedo just to make her happy? most women will want marriage at one point in their lives, its just the way the world is. if you dont realize this, then you will die a lonely man.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if someone who has experienced more than you gives you advice, or tries to tell you "i thought the same as you did, some day you will change your tune" do you just automatically blow them off?
honestly, you could be right. you could go the rest of your life without wanting to be married. but....odds are if you enter into a long term relationship, eventually she will want to get married. she will want to nest. she will get baby fever. now i am sure she will wait for you, say to herself "ok, AC isnt ready for marriage yet, but i love him. i will wait a while for him to be ready for it." she will be a trooper and be there for you. but....eventually she will grow tired of waiting. eventually she will give you the ultimatum. NOW.....if she gives you the ultimatum too sopn, and its like "marry me now or we are through", then i am sure you know to stick to your guns and tell her to stuff the white dress up her butt. but if you guys are together for years, everything is perfect, and she tells you "baby, i am sorry, but i NEED marriage. will you do this one little thing for me?" are you telling me that you would throw away a chance at pure happiness just because you dont believe in marriage? you wouldnt sacrifice a day in a tuxedo just to make her happy? most women will want marriage at one point in their lives, its just the way the world is. if you dont realize this, then you will die a lonely man.

First of all, you used that word. Don't tell me I "could" be right. I am right, I'm talking about me. I know me better than you do. The difference between you and I is clear; You said you'd never get married and clearly there was room for persuasion. With me, there is none. I know that for a fact. You are saying it's not a fact because you chose to write a bigger cheque than your conscience could cash.

For me? No kids, no marriage. I recognise that as a result of my beliefs and females largely wanting/or being conditioned to want both of those, it will be difficult to maintain a relationship in the long run, but I'm not someone who feels they have to "settle down". If it happens, great, if not, so what? I'm not so fearful of "being alone" as many men or women are. That's where compromises come in. People change because they're afraid of what it'll mean if they do not. The idea of "dying a lonely man" isn't something that will force me into marriage. I'd rather die lonely than unhappy, knowing I compromised a choice in life that I didn't want to make, to be with someone who didn't love me enough to skip legality. Besides, being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. We're not in relationships 24/7 for all our lives, many people IN relationships feel "alone".

So no. I recognise you're in some epic battle here, but my word is my word. As shocking as it may seem, that's how it is. If you're going to reply, do so relevantly, don't tell me what I will and won't do.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
, don't tell me what I will and won't do.

-AC


I bet you're waiting to get the right stink on your tip.

Must everything you say carry a homo-erotic overtone?

Of course I joke.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Must everything you say carry a homo-erotic overtone?

Of course I joke.

-AC


Don't speak to me like I'm Lord Urizen. I didn't say the "right"
stink was the stink of a man. I just said you're waiting for the right stink. Then you'll fall in line like the rest of civilized humanity.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
First of all, you used that word. Don't tell me I "could" be right. I am right, I'm talking about me. I know me better than you do. The difference between you and I is clear; You said you'd never get married and clearly there was room for persuasion. With me, there is none. I know that for a fact. You are saying it's not a fact because you chose to write a bigger cheque than your conscience could cash.

For me? No kids, no marriage. I recognise that as a result of my beliefs and females largely wanting/or being conditioned to want both of those, it will be difficult to maintain a relationship in the long run, but I'm not someone who feels they have to "settle down". If it happens, great, if not, so what? I'm not so fearful of "being alone" as many men or women are. That's where compromises come in. People change because they're afraid of what it'll mean if they do not. The idea of "dying a lonely man" isn't something that will force me into marriage. I'd rather die lonely than unhappy, knowing I compromised a choice in life that I didn't want to make, to be with someone who didn't love me enough to skip legality. Besides, being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. We're not in relationships 24/7 for all our lives, many people IN relationships feel "alone".

So no. I recognise you're in some epic battle here, but my word is my word. As shocking as it may seem, that's how it is. If you're going to reply, do so relevantly, don't tell me what I will and won't do.

-AC
well, i am not in an epic battle, i was just curious as to what was going on in your head regarding the subject at hand, but you pretty much answered all of my questions with your last post. if this is how you truly feel, then by all means, stick with it.
i do, however, believe that something has happened to you in the past that has biased you. what happened? i dont know, i dont know you well enough, nor do i care to. its just a hunch i have. you are not debating this, you are, as Robtard, said, laying down the law. you are telling us how it is, not how you think it is. you are crossing the line between stating your personal opinions and saying that your word is infallible.

i've seen more people marry out of financial gain then love, and you get to see the true form of love when the divorce (marital property issues) comes into play...i am sorry for sounding so negative, but based on my experience, people marry for financial reason, and to brag to their friends that they are "wanted" and usually, if they do that, they are more material and marry for financial benefits....a lot of women use to have kids for financial benefits, getting pregno by a responsible guy means a lot to some women, certainly not all, but SOME, and will tie a guy down with a baby...and some men do the same thing to women...so, a lot of dating and sex has to do with CONTROL and a lot of marriages have to do with MONEY (SECURITY)...what about love? i haven't seen too much love in this world, i've seen arranged marriages, people forced into marriage to save face, i've DISCOVERED both male and females playing another for financial reasons...but love? again, even when i go grocery shopping for organic foods, which is a self love type of shopping, in which you either care a lot about your health or the environment, i rarely run into LOVING people, and the prices are expensive...i know i am ranting, but the point is, there isn't much love in the world, so to expect it in marriage is a bit much. if you find love, you found something. what i am trying to state is this, a person who is married isn't necessarily a person who loves their partner, they may love MONEY, PLEASING THEIR PARENTS, PLEASING SOCIETY/CHURCH, and a person may not be married and has much love for another person, i don't look at a wedding band and think "love", and if i see a female with huge diamonds, i don't believe the guy loves her a lot, i believe she knows how to swindle a person out of money, love is not in diamonds or gold, sorry if advertisers make some swindling women believe that if they wear jewelry, they will display to the world that they are important, when really, if the guy isn't making 6 figures, and she has a fat diamond(s) on her finger(s), in my eyes, she/they look like swindlers.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't speak to me like I'm Lord Urizen. I didn't say the "right"
stink was the stink of a man. I just said you're waiting for the right stink. Then you'll fall in line like the rest of civilized humanity.

You sure fell in line and conformed, didn't you? Grow up, settle down, get married to a woman, have kids.

Oh wait...aren't you homosexual? Nothing screams conformity like putting it in the tradesman's entrance.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, i am not in an epic battle, i was just curious as to what was going on in your head regarding the subject at hand, but you pretty much answered all of my questions with your last post. if this is how you truly feel, then by all means, stick with it.
i do, however, believe that something has happened to you in the past that has biased you. what happened? i dont know, i dont know you well enough, nor do i care to. its just a hunch i have. you are not debating this, you are, as Robtard, said, laying down the law. you are telling us how it is, not how you think it is. you are crossing the line between stating your personal opinions and saying that your word is infallible.

Why are you so insecure in accepting that I just believe what I believe? Why do you have such a silly sense of "There MUST be another reason."? No, there's not. Just deal with it and move on. Not sure what the problem is there. You're just so shell-shocked that yes, I believe what I do. No, there's no negative historical reason.

I'm telling you how it is, yes. Nobody has given me logical reason outside of monetary gain, for marriage. People have said that it's ok to marry out of love, that it DOES happen. I never disagreed, I said it doesn't make it logical. Nobody has proven me wrong yet.

You CHOOSING to do something doesn't make it logical. A choice is not logical just because it is a choice.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You sure fell in line and conformed, didn't you? Grow up, settle down, get married to a woman, have kids.

Oh wait...aren't you homosexual? Nothing screams conformity like putting it in the tradesman's entrance.

-AC

I'd have given that post an A+, until I got to the part about me being gay and the tradesman's enterance. We in america just call them peasants, and everyone on here knows I'm gay so you don't have to point it out.

So, you get, at the most, a B-

In fact, you get the most points subtracted because you're acting like you didn't understand my joke.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'd have given that post an A+, until I got to the part about me being gay and the tradesman's enterance. We in america just call them peasants, and everyone on here knows I'm gay so you don't have to point it out.

So, you get, at the most, a B-

In fact, you get the most points subtracted because you're acting like you didn't understand my joke.

And you get points subtracted for A) Subtracting points based on personal dislike of a post.

and B) Saying "I'm gay so you don't have to say it.", as one way or another, you can't seem to post without somehow reminding us that you are homosexual. If we discuss music; you bring up Elton John, if we discuss discrimination; homosexuality. Even your avatar is one of the world's most famous gay actors.

I'm doing no more promoting than you are.

Either way, marriage eh? It's a laugh.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you so insecure in accepting that I just believe what I believe? Why do you have such a silly sense of "There MUST be another reason."? No, there's not. Just deal with it and move on. Not sure what the problem is there. You're just so shell-shocked that yes, I believe what I do. No, there's no negative historical reason.

I'm telling you how it is, yes. Nobody has given me logical reason outside of monetary gain, for marriage. People have said that it's ok to marry out of love, that it DOES happen. I never disagreed, I said it doesn't make it logical. Nobody has proven me wrong yet.

You CHOOSING to do something doesn't make it logical. A choice is not logical just because it is a choice.

-AC
fine, you finally answered my question as to your past, and i DO believe you. i accept the fact that you believe what you do, for whatever reason. insecurity has nothing to do with it, i was just curious, thats all.

you just said it. no one has given YOU a logical reason to believe marriage can be for more than monetary reasons. your previous posts seem as if you were stating fact, thats why i was debating. just because no one has proven you wrong doesnt mean that you are not wrong. just like no one proving me wrong yet doesnt mean i am not wrong. for all you and i know, we are so full of it it is coming out of our ears. niow that i am convinced that it is your own beliefs, that you are not biased, i se no more room for debating this.

if making a choice in a given situation makes you happy, then it is entirely logical.

and you cant really tell me that you will never change your mind. for all you know, 5 years from now you could be a communist cross dresser. things happen, perspectives change, we evolve. thats the way it is.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Must everything you say carry a homo-erotic overtone?

Of course I joke.

-AC

You're the one saying them, don't blame others for realizing the truth contained in all of your posts.

Now get back under my desk.

And no, it's not worth getting married, some tax cuts and stuff, but then if it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, you have to give your spouce half of your shit. Assuming your a guy.

I guess women have a reason to get married, easy money for them.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And you get points subtracted for A) Subtracting points based on personal dislike of a post.

and B) Saying "I'm gay so you don't have to say it.", as one way or another, you can't seem to post without somehow reminding us that you are homosexual. If we discuss music; you bring up Elton John, if we discuss discrimination; homosexuality. Even your avatar is one of the world's most famous gay actors.

I'm doing no more promoting than you are.

Either way, marriage eh? It's a laugh.

-AC

You get points subtracted because you're pretending you have a rating system at all.


D-

As in "You loose". Not in the future President material kind of way.

Originally posted by BackFire
You're the one saying them, don't blame others for realizing the truth contained in all of your posts.

Now get back under my desk.

And no, it's not worth getting married, some tax cuts and stuff, but then if it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, you have to give your spouce half of your shit. Assuming your a guy.

I guess women have a reason to get married, easy money for them.

What if you're a ***? Or a broomstick?, or a decorative set of pots and pans? Long story short, the guy is the one who ends up getting ****ed! So why act like it's all "against the norm"? Men have been getting ****ed for centuries! Long live F@GGOTS! And everyone who pretends to fight for them! ("THEM" is a trademark of 'DiversityINC" Any use of "THEM" is strictly prohibited under international and recently-restricted domestic trademarks.)

i think the running argument here is that marriage is instilled in us, that we do it because it is expected of us.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i think the running argument here is that marriage is instilled in us, that we do it because it is expected of us.


******!

*f*a*g*g*o*t*

i didnt quite catch that, say again?

girly man, who loves star wars and men in dresses!

*points a finger at you* exclamation point!

well, i do love my star wars, but men in dresses? only if it's you, baby.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so just because you believe its illogical its illogical? we are all supposed to believe that marriage is illogical lest its for monetary reasons?

Not because I believe it is, because it is, as I've given many examples to. Why are you having trouble with this? Stop focusing on me, focus on what I'm saying and why.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
if two people are getting married for love, its illogical? who's to say this? you are saying this again as if it is fact, written in stone. if your mate was to wed, and he told you it was logical, would you argue with him about this?

I'll say it again so even you can understand it, RJ.

If two people get married for love, it's not wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, but it IS illogical because there is no justifiable or ultimately necessary reason for doing so. Choosing to do it out of love does not make that a logical choice.

It is fact, that's just how it is. If anybody told me it was logical to get married for any other reason than monetary gain, I'd say it was illogical. It simply is. Nobody is saying it's wrong to get married for love, it's just illogical. There is factually no good explanation, is there? "We wanted to.", "We're in love.", yes? So what? You don't NEED to get married, there's nothing causing you to, nothing forcing you to, you're not gaining anything emotionally, you just choose to.

If you STILL don't get this, then don't try debating the point. Let someone else do it. Don't sit there saying I'm wrong when you really don't grasp the general point anyway.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you know, i could easily counter with "it's illogical not to marry the one you love." but i wont. either you want to marry or you dont. the only logical decision is the one that seems right to you and your partner. if you both agree and you both want it, its logical. its the decision that is best for you. if you dont want to marry, and neither does she, then its logical not to marry.

You couldn't counter with that, because then I could say "Nothing is gained by marriage, nothing at all. No matter how bad you want to marry, you gain nothing.". It's not void of logic NOT to marry. I suggest you start grabbing a dictionary and looking up some of these words.

So once again; Marriage is a choice, but that doesn't make it logical. If you're getting married for any reason other than legal benefit, it's pointless. If you disagree, give me a point, give me a reason, and no, not "They love each other.". That's a choice void of sound reasoning or necessity.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
theres no way of knowing how you will feel tomorrow, next year, 5 or 10 years from now. for all you know you might have a change of heart about everything you hold near and dear to you. can you honestly tell me that there is ZERO chance of you changing your mind on this? think about it before you answer. unless you can see the future, then the answer is no.

Why are you being an idiot? The answer is yes. We are discussing me, so my word is final. The answer is yes, I know it won't ever happen. That's just the way it is.

Stop being ignorant just because you need something to cling onto in this debate. Accept the truth, because that is what it is, truth. Nothing will change that alters my point of view on this. Marriage will never be different to be, so therefore I will never do it. This is a fact, you cannot deny it. To do so is ignorant. You don't get to decide whether I'm right or wrong here, RJ, I do. Accept this and move on. Get a different point, a better one. Leave this one out of the debate because I'm tired of you being dumb about it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
how do you explain couples that have been happily married for 30 and 40 years? is it wrong that they are so happy? why do you think they are so happy? because they are married. they made the choice together, it was the LOGICAL choice. if you make a choice that is right for you and your partner, and it results in mutual happiness, how can it be anything but logical? you can quote all the dictionaries you want, we all know the DEFINITION of the word. but definition and MEANING could differ.

No, it wasn't logical just because they WANTED to. That does not make it logical. You need to go and read what the definition says.

I've told you many, many times that no, it's not wrong that they are happy, what the hell is your problem? Why do you keep ignoring my points? It being what's right for them does not make it LOGICAL. Smoking cigarettes might be "right" for you, but it does not make it logical to inhale tar and chemicals that poison your lungs. I'm honestly tired of you asking me how things can't be logical when I have used dictionary definition and multiple examples to show you how.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's illogical, and no, definition and meaning, in this case, simply do not differ. You are misusing the word. Maybe this is why you were better suited to the OTF.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i have all the room in the world to disagree. i accept the fact that you dont believe in it, just as you should accept the fact that i do. you dont have to agree with me, nor do i with you. for you to say "my position on this will never change" is crazy. you dont know what the future holds for you, what your beliefs will be in 5 or 10 years.

No, you don't have any room to disagree regarding me and my beliefs OF MYSELF. What I say about me and my beliefs is fact. I say I will never get married, that's a fact. You have no room to disagree, and doing so just makes you ignorant to fact. Your inability to hold your beliefs has caused you to believe everyone else is as weak, that's not the case, deal with it.

Think I'm crazy all you want, but don't sit there disagreeing, it's not your right to disagree with me about my own personal choices.

"I'm not going to do this, I know I won't.", "No, I think you will.", "No, I won't, simple as that.", "I disagree.".

It's dumb. You don't know me better than I do, and I'm telling you you're wrong. If you told me something about your beloved FJ that you knew for sure, FOR SURE as a fact, and I kept saying "Hmm, I disagree.". It'd annoy you because you'd know that what you said was 100% true and unwavering. Hence my position, what I say is true, it always will be.

From now on, if you still stupidly disagree, do so in your mind, not in this debate. It's pointless for me to keep telling you how factually wrong you are. Keep it to marriage in general.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and admit it, please.

And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.

That was never under argument, it was a side issue.

You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.

You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.

Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC

So you want me to "have the balls" and admit against something I've been through and I know why I did it. Marriage may be illogical to you, it's subjective as you do not see it as any form of gain; but how can tell someone else what they gained or didn't gain from a marriage love wise? That's illogical.

"What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage."-

Correct as you stated the two above reasons to get married and those two in themselves are logical reasons. If you plan on being with someone the rest of your life it's logical to get married as it will bring you benefits that merely living together forever wouldn't; yet marriage is illogical?

So is the "love" aspect of a marriage what you define as being "illogical", if so I can't really argue with you as love is subjective. Maybe a marriage will bring you and your spouse a greater love, maybe it won't. I certainly cannot judge that.

Correct, I did marry out of love and correct it wasn't necessary; I could be living with my "girlfriend" and have a child with her all the same, but not being necessary doesn't make it "illogical" by default and you have no measure of what I gained or didn't gain.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you want me to "have the balls" and admit against something I've been through and I know why I did it. Marriage may be illogical to you, it's subjective as you do not see it as any form of gain; but how can tell someone else what they gained or didn't gain from a marriage love wise? That's illogical.

It's not subjective, it's objective. You just refuse to see beyond your choice to marry. I can see beyond my choice, I can see why you chose to marry. You married out of love, you're very happy, congratulations. I mean that sincerely. However, marriage is simply something you wanted to do, you didn't NEED to. You didn't love your wife more now that she was legally Mrs. Your Name did you? I'd sure as hell hope not. I'd hope that the love is there and you love her as you always did, if not more so. If that's the case, it's to do with emotion, not marriage, not legality.

Wanting, choosing and prefering marriage is fine by me. I don't want it so I won't do it, I've got nothing against anyone being married. My point is, choosing to enter a legally binding contract JUST BECAUSE it has socially suggested connections with love, doesn't mean it IS connected. There is not logical reason as to why anybody would want to marry outside of monetary benefit, and so what? If it makes you happy, do it, it doesn't need to make sense, but just recognise that it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct as you stated the two above reasons to get married and those two in themselves are logical reasons. If you plan on being with someone the rest of your life it's logical to get married as it will bring you benefits that merely living together forever wouldn't; yet marriage is illogical?

It's logical to want happiness, it's not logical to conduct and involve yourself in a ceremony that literally does not give happiness. You might be happy WITH it, but that's only because in your mind you are telling yourself it makes you happy. If you were unhappy with your lady, marriage wouldn't fix things. Marriage is something happy couples think makes them happier, without realising that they ARE happy, therefore they get married. They put the cart before the horse. You're not often happy because you're married, you're married because you're happy. That's totally fine, however, it's not a logical reason to GET MARRIED.

There are many logical reasons to pursue happiness, but marriage outside of monetary gain is simply pursuing the logical in an illogical way. Like trying to get high by drinking beer.

Originally posted by Robtard
So is the "love" aspect of a marriage what you define as being "illogical", if so I can't really argue with you as love is subjective. Maybe a marriage will bring you and your spouse a greater love, maybe it won't.

The last line is what you need to pay attention to. Maybe it will bring greater love, maybe it won't? No. Marriage brings nothing in itself. If you and your spouse are married because you're happy, that's different than being happy because you are married. I.e: "We are happy, so we got married.", the marriage is incidental. "We are married, so we're happy.", that's bs. It's illogical. It happens, but it's illogical.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, I did marry out of love and correct it wasn't necessary; I could be living with my "girlfriend" and have a child with her all the same, but not being necessary doesn't make it "illogical" by default.

The methods behind the choice are what make it illogical or not, quite right. See above.

If you're marrying with a view to increasing your love, that's illogical, since marriage doesn't give that. It might spark a conscious/subsconscious thought that would make you more happy, like when doctors prescribe placebos and people just end up convincing themselves they're not sick anymore. Marriage might just convince you that it made you more happy, the fact is, the act itself cannot.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not subjective, it's objective. You just refuse to see beyond your choice to marry. I can see beyond my choice, I can see why you chose to marry. You married out of love, you're very happy, congratulations. I mean that sincerely. However, marriage is simply something you wanted to do, you didn't NEED to. You didn't love your wife more now that she was legally Mrs. Your Name did you? I'd sure as hell hope not. I'd hope that the love is there and you love her as you always did, if not more so. If that's the case, it's to do with emotion, not marriage, not legality.

Wanting, choosing and prefering marriage is fine by me. I don't want it so I won't do it, I've got nothing against anyone being married. My point is, choosing to enter a legally binding contract JUST BECAUSE it has socially suggested connections with love, doesn't mean it IS connected. There is not logical reason as to why anybody would want to marry outside of monetary benefit, and so what? If it makes you happy, do it, it doesn't need to make sense, but just recognise that it doesn't make sense.



It's logical to want happiness, it's not logical to conduct and involve yourself in a ceremony that literally does not give happiness. You might be happy WITH it, but that's only because in your mind you are telling yourself it makes you happy. If you were unhappy with your lady, marriage wouldn't fix things. Marriage is something happy couples think makes them happier, without realising that they ARE happy, therefore they get married. They put the cart before the horse. You're not often happy because you're married, you're married because you're happy. That's totally fine, however, it's not a logical reason to GET MARRIED.

There are many logical reasons to pursue happiness, but marriage outside of monetary gain is simply pursuing the logical in an illogical way. Like trying to get high by drinking beer.



The last line is what you need to pay attention to. Maybe it will bring greater love, maybe it won't? No. Marriage brings nothing in itself. If you and your spouse are married because you're happy, that's different than being happy because you are married. I.e: "We are happy, so we got married.", the marriage is incidental. "We are married, so we're happy.", that's bs. It's illogical. It happens, but it's illogical.



The methods behind the choice are what make it illogical or not, quite right. See above.

If you're marrying with a view to increasing your love, that's illogical, since marriage doesn't give that. It might spark a conscious/subsconscious thought that would make you more happy, like when doctors prescribe placebos and people just end up convincing themselves they're not sick anymore. Marriage might just convince you that it made you more happy, the fact is, the act itself cannot.

-AC

I just have one question... How can you definitively state that marriage will not make two people more in love? That the motions of marriage being a physical means of expression will not produce a greater love in two people?

As for me, I cannot say I love her more simply because we're married, I do love her more now than I did five years ago, but I cannot honestly attribute it to the marriage; maybe if I didn't marry her I'd love her even greater or maybe we wouldn't be together in that alternate "non-'married" time-line; I simple cannot attest to something that didn't happen.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not because I believe it is, because it is, as I've given many examples to. Why are you having trouble with this? Stop focusing on me, focus on what I'm saying and why.



I'll say it again so even you can understand it, RJ.

If two people get married for love, it's not wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, but it IS illogical because there is no justifiable or ultimately necessary reason for doing so. Choosing to do it out of love does not make that a logical choice.

It is fact, that's just how it is. If anybody told me it was logical to get married for any other reason than monetary gain, I'd say it was illogical. It simply is. Nobody is saying it's wrong to get married for love, it's just illogical. There is factually no good explanation, is there? "We wanted to.", "We're in love.", yes? So what? You don't NEED to get married, there's nothing causing you to, nothing forcing you to, you're not gaining anything emotionally, you just choose to.

If you STILL don't get this, then don't try debating the point. Let someone else do it. Don't sit there saying I'm wrong when you really don't grasp the general point anyway.



You couldn't counter with that, because then I could say "Nothing is gained by marriage, nothing at all. No matter how bad you want to marry, you gain nothing.". It's not void of logic NOT to marry. I suggest you start grabbing a dictionary and looking up some of these words.

So once again; Marriage is a choice, but that doesn't make it logical. If you're getting married for any reason other than legal benefit, it's pointless. If you disagree, give me a point, give me a reason, and no, not "They love each other.". That's a choice void of sound reasoning or necessity.



Why are you being an idiot? The answer is yes. We are discussing me, so my word is final. The answer is yes, I know it won't ever happen. That's just the way it is.

Stop being ignorant just because you need something to cling onto in this debate. Accept the truth, because that is what it is, truth. Nothing will change that alters my point of view on this. Marriage will never be different to be, so therefore I will never do it. This is a fact, you cannot deny it. To do so is ignorant. You don't get to decide whether I'm right or wrong here, RJ, I do. Accept this and move on. Get a different point, a better one. Leave this one out of the debate because I'm tired of you being dumb about it.



No, it wasn't logical just because they WANTED to. That does not make it logical. You need to go and read what the definition says.

I've told you many, many times that no, it's not wrong that they are happy, what the hell is your problem? Why do you keep ignoring my points? It being what's right for them does not make it LOGICAL. Smoking cigarettes might be "right" for you, but it does not make it logical to inhale tar and chemicals that poison your lungs. I'm honestly tired of you asking me how things can't be logical when I have used dictionary definition and multiple examples to show you how.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's illogical, and no, definition and meaning, in this case, simply do not differ. You are misusing the word. Maybe this is why you were better suited to the OTF.



No, you don't have any room to disagree regarding me and my beliefs OF MYSELF. What I say about me and my beliefs is fact. I say I will never get married, that's a fact. You have no room to disagree, and doing so just makes you ignorant to fact. Your inability to hold your beliefs has caused you to believe everyone else is as weak, that's not the case, deal with it.

Think I'm crazy all you want, but don't sit there disagreeing, it's not your right to disagree with me about my own personal choices.

"I'm not going to do this, I know I won't.", "No, I think you will.", "No, I won't, simple as that.", "I disagree.".

It's dumb. You don't know me better than I do, and I'm telling you you're wrong. If you told me something about your beloved FJ that you knew for sure, FOR SURE as a fact, and I kept saying "Hmm, I disagree.". It'd annoy you because you'd know that what you said was 100% true and unwavering. Hence my position, what I say is true, it always will be.

From now on, if you still stupidly disagree, do so in your mind, not in this debate. It's pointless for me to keep telling you how factually wrong you are. Keep it to marriage in general.

-AC
so if two people marry for love, its not wrong, correct? ok. that would mean it's the right thing to do. since when is the right choice illogical? if you have a choice in your life, whether it's marriage, going to college, whether or not to stay out all night drinking when you have to be at work the next morning, what's the logical choice? which is the right choice? which is the wrong choice? if you stay out all night knowing you have an early morning exam or have to be at work early, did you make the illogical or logical choice in getting tanked? would it have been more logical to stay home and get plenty of sleep? is this the right choice or the logical choice? remember, we are arguing logic here, not marriage anymore. i think the whole debate has moved beyond marriage.

i GET the point that you are against marriage. what i am questioning now is your inability to grasp the fact that you COULD be wrong. me, personally, i am just going with my opinion, i am not saying shit and saying it's an actual fact, that there is no way i can be wrong. you are not god and you are not a seer, and you are not all knowing. or do you think you really are?

also, i never called you crazy, i said to think in such a way is crazy. for you to think that it's impossible that you are wrong and that you will never change your mind is crazy. not you personally, just that line of thinking.

and now we get to the insults. just because i disagree does not make me stupid. it means i am exercising my free will. i expect the same from you. also, you have no business telling me i am better suited for any part of the forum. i think you are just pissed because i am noit bowing down and accepting your word as law.

as far as me and FJ go, there are very few things that i would say "no, she'll never do that" or "no, that'll never happen" to. now, if i said "She will never do drugs or get high" and you said "RJ, buddy, there is no way you can know that"........you are right. there is no way of telling how any one person will feel on any given topic from one day to the next. i know that in your heart, in your mind, marriage is illogical. i get that, i really do. BUT.....there is no way you are ever going to convince me that you will NEVER change your mind.

the more you tell me "i am factually wrong", then the more i will "stupidly disagree". what you are saying is only an opinion, not fact. an opinion is never a fact. you want a fact? E=MC2.....thats a fact.

so let's be nice. no need for hurling insults and/or telling me that your word is written in stone, that it is infallible. i do not claim this, as i have no right to. what gives you the right to?

Originally posted by Robtard
I just have one question... How can you definitively state that marriage will not make two people more in love? That the motions of marriage being a physical means of expression will not produce a greater love in two people?

You're not saying anything different. The act may, vicariously cause a greater love, the idea of it, but the actual act itself does not/cannot provide love. It's just a contract.

If you weren't in love and you got married, it wouldn't magically make you fall in love. It might have the placebo effect, but that's all.

Originally posted by Robtard
As for me, I cannot say I love her more simply because we're married, I do love her more now than I did five years ago, but I cannot honestly attribute it to the marriage; maybe if I didn't marry her I'd love her even greater or maybe we wouldn't be together in that alternate "non-'married" time-line; I simple cannot attest to something that didn't happen.

Precisely, it's emotion. Legality is a non-issue.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if two people marry for love, its not wrong, correct? ok. that would mean it's the right thing to do.

For them. Right doesn't mean logical.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
since when is the right choice illogical? if you have a choice in your life, whether it's marriage, going to college, whether or not to stay out all night drinking when you have to be at work the next morning, what's the logical choice? which is the right choice? which is the wrong choice? if you stay out all night knowing you have an early morning exam or have to be at work early, did you make the illogical or logical choice in getting tanked? would it have been more logical to stay home and get plenty of sleep? is this the right choice or the logical choice? remember, we are arguing logic here, not marriage anymore. i think the whole debate has moved beyond marriage.

Are you genuinely going out of your way to misinterpret what I'm saying?

Since when is the right choice illogical? It's not inherently illogical. What's "right" for you can be either. For some people, not going in for chemo when they have cancer is the right thing to do, despite doctors saying "If you do this, you'll get better.". That's right for the patient, but it's illogical.

Making the choice that is personally right for you does not make it a logical one. The debate hasn't moved beyond marriage, you just don't get logic because you don't understand it, RJ. Don't try proving how I'm wrong just because you have the wrong perception of the term. Its definition agrees with me, the word's definition, not mine. Meaning and definition aren't different in this case, but to indulge your pathetic example; If you know you have work but you want to stay out drinking and do so, that's what's RIGHT for you, but it's not logical.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i GET the point that you are against marriage. what i am questioning now is your inability to grasp the fact that you COULD be wrong. me, personally, i am just going with my opinion, i am not saying shit and saying it's an actual fact, that there is no way i can be wrong. you are not god and you are not a seer, and you are not all knowing. or do you think you really are?

What? I'm not against marriage, you're being stupid and ignorant to my points. I personally don't want to do it, but I'm not against it, people can do whatever they want.

What YOU don't get is that there is not "could be wrong". I'm not wrong, I know for a fact I am right about myself. End of story. The debate (not that there is one) needn't go further than that. You asked me about myself, I told you a factual reply. That's the part where you say "Then that's how it is for you.". Not, "Well I think you could be wrong.". There is no "could" or "might".

I'm all knowing when it comes to how I feel about myself, my beliefs, values and opinions. I am telling you, factually that WHATEVER HAPPENS in life, which I do not know of, I PERSONALLY will never change that belief. Now what is your damn problem? You changed, big deal. Deal with your own choice. Maybe you're just insecure that you didn't want marriage and ended up getting shanghai-ed into it. It won't happen to me, fact. I'm not speaking for anyone or anything but me, and I am right.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, i never called you crazy, i said to think in such a way is crazy. for you to think that it's impossible that you are wrong and that you will never change your mind is crazy. not you personally, just that line of thinking.

It's not crazy, you just can't grasp it. It's a simple concept. What's crazy is you thinking you have an opinion equal to mine of myself, when mine isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You have no right to say I'm possibly wrong, you don't get to do that. It's not an option, and doing so is ignorant. I'm not speaking for you or anyone/anything else. JUST me and that part of my beliefs. They won't change.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and now we get to the insults. just because i disagree does not make me stupid. it means i am exercising my free will. i expect the same from you. also, you have no business telling me i am better suited for any part of the forum. i think you are just pissed because i am noit bowing down and accepting your word as law.

No, it's just odd that you think you can apply your wrong opinion to me. My word regarding ME is law, it's fact. Nobody else can say any different, the same goes for you or anybody. If you said "I know for a fact...etc etc", about a belief you have, I have no right to challenge it. Whether or not you PERSONALLY change/changed has no bearing on me or my future. You obviously didn't have a strong enough belief.

You are being stupid so I called you stupid. What you are doing is really idiotic. You can't disagree with me over my own beliefs and what I know to be factually true of myself.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as me and FJ go, there are very few things that i would say "no, she'll never do that" or "no, that'll never happen" to. now, if i said "She will never do drugs or get high" and you said "RJ, buddy, there is no way you can know that"........you are right. there is no way of telling how any one person will feel on any given topic from one day to the next. i know that in your heart, in your mind, marriage is illogical. i get that, i really do. BUT.....there is no way you are ever going to convince me that you will NEVER change your mind.

That's because you would be speaking about another person, it doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the more you tell me "i am factually wrong", then the more i will "stupidly disagree".

Which is why you're stupid. You're doing it cos you think it makes it any more credible for you. It doesn't. My word over me is as factual as it was when it started.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what you are saying is only an opinion, not fact. an opinion is never a fact. you want a fact? E=MC2.....thats a fact.

I know an opinion is never a fact. Mine isn't an opinion, it's a fact. I know it's a fact because I am me. End of story. It's a fact. It's an undeniable truth.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so let's be nice. no need for hurling insults and/or telling me that your word is written in stone, that it is infallible. i do not claim this, as i have no right to. what gives you the right to?

Because I am factually right about myself. You not having the spine to make such concrete claims about your beliefs is your problem, it doesn't mean I am the same.

You are attempting to disagree with me about ME. Who knows more? Me. My word about ME is law. Yours means nothing when it comes to discussing me and my beliefs, and vice versa. Don't sit there and expect to be treated with respect, asking not to be called stupid or ignorant when you are being both stupid and ignorant.

You do it, I'll say it. Until you can get off the fence and realise that your word means nothing when we discuss me, I will continue to do so. Fact is fact, you not liking it doesn't turn a fact into an opinion.

Let's try something out; RJ, you can't sit there and tell me you will never molest a child. You simply don't know that. You might sit there saying you never will, but you don't know, man. People change. You don't know that you won't become a rapist and a paedophile, you just don't know. You might. Are you willing to admit that you might possibly become those things? After all, you don't know. Or are you going to do what we know is correct, and say "No, I won't ever do that shit."?

Saying the former just to attempt to counter me will make you look very bad and very silly, saying the latter will prove my point. Answer how you will, and don't dodge it (Which you will.).

-AC

quick recap: you dont believe in marriage other than monetary reasons. your word is law. when someone disagrees with you, they are stupid and should just bow down and accept your word as fact. you will never change your line of thinking. there is nothing that will ever change your mind on the subject of marriage. is this about right?

as far as molesting a child goes, i can certainly tell you that i have no interest in doing that. but you are right, theres no way i can tell what the future holds. you just proved my point by asking me this.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
quick recap: you dont believe in marriage other than monetary reasons. your word is law. when someone disagrees with you, they are stupid and should just bow down and accept your word as fact. you will never change your line of thinking. there is nothing that will ever change your mind on the subject of marriage. is this about right?

Here comes the traditional Rogue Jedi: "I'm upset so I'll purposefully misinterpret everything.".

A) No, it's not a matter of me not believing in marriage. You've ignored me AGAIN. It's a matter of me proving there is no logic in marrying for anything besides monetary concern. Doesn't make it wrong, makes it illogical.

B) My word is law regarding MYSELF. Not everything else. I just happen to be correct regarding marriage. Not because I say so, because I have proven so.

C) No, someone is stupid when they act stupid. Robtard disagrees, I don't think he's stupid. I think you're stupid because you're acting stupid. You're being ignorant and foolhardy. You refuse to accept that you can't grasp what's being said, and so rather than make an attempt to understand, you just push misunderstanding.

D) Precisely. My words regarding marriage and me are fact. End of story.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as molesting a child goes, i can certainly tell you that i have no interest in doing that. but you are right, theres no way i can tell what the future holds. you just proved my point by asking me this.

And you've proven mine by replying in such a way for the sake of countering me. Congratulations. You walked right into that one.

YOU personally aren't sure if it will ever happen, so you say "I'm not sure, I might. You're right.". Precisely. You see, I am sure, so when I say "I'll never marry.", I'm right. If you said "No way, I will never molest a child, I will never be a rapist, I know that for a fact.", it's not within my rights to disagree.

Try again.

-AC

I'll marry you, AC. Come here, let me give you a hug.

Will there be Sunny Delight? If so, I accept.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Here comes the traditional Rogue Jedi: "I'm upset so I'll purposefully misinterpret everything.

A) No, it's not a matter of me not believing in marriage. You've ignored me AGAIN. It's a matter of me proving there is no logic in marrying for anything besides monetary concern. Doesn't make it wrong, makes it illogical.

B) My word is law regarding MYSELF. Not everything else. I just happen to be correct regarding marriage. Not because I say so, because I have proven so.

C) No, someone is stupid when they act stupid. Robtard disagrees, I don't think he's stupid. I think you're stupid because you're acting stupid. You're being ignorant and foolhardy. You refuse to accept that you can't grasp what's being said, and so rather than make an attempt to understand, you just push misunderstanding.

D) Precisely. My words regarding marriage and me are fact. End of story.



And you've proven mine by replying in such a way for the sake of countering me. Congratulations. You walked right into that one.

YOU personally aren't sure if it will ever happen, so you say "I'm not sure, I might. You're right.". Precisely. You see, I am sure, so when I say "I'll never marry.", I'm right.

Try again.

-AC

ok, lets get off the molestation thing, thats just weird. lets change it to "RJ, can you honestly say you will never strike a woman." thats more comfortable. honestly, i can never imagine myself, not in any walk of life hitting a woman. i wasnt raised that way. i actually had a girl kick me in the nads in a crowded nightclub once, and i didnt retaliate. i looked like a fool, but i was a man about it. i actually deserved it. ....anyways, me hitting a girl? i cannot honestly say that it might happen. i cant imagine it happening, but nothing is impossible, right? just like you changing your mind about marriage being illogical outside monetary reasons. if i can say that i cant imagine myself hitting a girl, but that its not impossible, that shit happens, why cant you say the same about marriage being illogical? do you really think that people dont change over time?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Will there be Sunny Delight? If so, I accept.

-AC

Sorry, only freshly squeezed in my neighbourhood. See, I knew you'd change your tune.

also, its TOTALLY within your rights to disagree!!! if i say that i will never be a taliban commando, you have the right to disagree. you can say its unlikely, but not impossible. if someone says something about something and you disagree or think they are full of shit, you, me, and everyone else here has room to disagree.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok, lets get off the molestation thing, thats just weird. lets change it to "RJ, can you honestly say you will never strike a woman." thats more comfortable. honestly, i can never imagine myself, not in any walk of life hitting a woman. i wasnt raised that way. i actually had a girl kick me in the nads in a crowded nightclub once, and i didnt retaliate. i looked like a fool, but i was a man about it. i actually deserved it. ....anyways, me hitting a girl? i cannot honestly say that it might happen. i cant imagine it happening, but nothing is impossible, right? just like you changing your mind about marriage being illogical outside monetary reasons. if i can say that i cant imagine myself hitting a girl, but that its not impossible, that shit happens, why cant you say the same about marriage being illogical? do you really think that people dont change over time?

No, let's not change it. Let's progress with the idea.

You are prepared to sit there and say that you are not sure if you will ever molest a child, why? Because you say "I don't know what the future holds.", is this true or not? If the answer is yes, as you have said it to be, then fine. YOU aren't sure of yourself, me? Regarding marriage, I am. I know for a fact it'll never happen. Are you prepared to tell me there is NOTHING that you would never ever do? I call bs on that, quite frankly. Then again, you say nothing is impossible, which is factually incorrect.

I'm telling you I'll never get married, that's a fact. As for marriage being illogical, I've proven it. Nobody has proven otherwise.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, its TOTALLY within your rights to disagree!!! if i say that i will never be a taliban commando, you have the right to disagree. you can say its unlikely, but not impossible. if someone says something about something and you disagree or think they are full of shit, you, me, and everyone else here has room to disagree.

No, that's where you misunderstand. If you say you won't ever be one, I'm not going to sit here and say "You never know.". Whether or not you DO become one isn't my concern, I don't know any better than you. You know your feelings better than me, I know mine better than you. So I can't tell you any different, and you can't do the same for me.

Your problem is that you are far too non-committal to concrete areas. You think nothing is impossible, the plight of the doomed optimist.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, let's not change it. Let's progress with the idea.

You are prepared to sit there and say that you are not sure if you will ever molest a child, why? Because you say "I don't know what the future holds.", is this true or not? If the answer is yes, as you have said it to be, then fine. YOU aren't sure of yourself, me? Regarding marriage, I am. I know for a fact it'll never happen. Are you prepared to tell me there is NOTHING that you would never ever do? I call bs on that, quite frankly. Then again, you say nothing is impossible, which is factually incorrect.

I'm telling you I'll never get married, that's a fact. As for marriage being illogical, I've proven it. Nobody has proven otherwise.



No, that's where you misunderstand. If you say you won't ever be one, I'm not going to sit here and say "You never know.". Whether or not you DO become one isn't my concern, I don't know any better than you. You know your feelings better than me, I know mine better than you. So I can't tell you any different, and you can't do the same for me.

Your problem is that you are far too non-committal to concrete areas. You think nothing is impossible, the plight of the doomed optimist.

-AC
i am sure of myself in my present state of mind. but who knows? i might be a schizo idiot ten years from now. same could happen to you. also, you are totally allowed to say "You never know" to someone when they say "this'll never happen to me." how do you know what will happen to you? people go through life changing events all the time, man. it doesnt matter how sure you are of yourself and/or your convictions. your entire outlook on life could change in a heartbeat. can you honestly tell me that your way of thinking will never change?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i am sure of myself in my present state of mind. but who knows? i might be a schizo idiot ten years from now. same could happen to you. also, you are totally allowed to say "You never know" to someone when they say "this'll never happen to me." how do you know what will happen to you? people go through life changing events all the time, man. it doesnt matter how sure you are of yourself and/or your convictions. your entire outlook on life could change in a heartbeat. can you honestly tell me that your way of thinking will never change?

Precisely. You are forcing your blinkered view of personal choice upon me, whom it does not apply to. You won't say anything for sure because you aren't sure. I am. You not being sure doesn't mean I am not.

I don't know what will happen to me, I'm not an oracle, but I am telling you that I will never marry. I know this because it's under my control. I can't say "I won't get hit by a bus.". I don't know that. All I can do is make sure I don't. I can say I won't ever marry because I know I won't.

All of this time and you end with the same question to which I give the same answer: Regarding marriage, no, my thinking will never change. Accept this and move on.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're not saying anything different. The act may, vicariously cause a greater love, the idea of it, but the actual act itself does not/cannot provide love. It's just a contract.

If you weren't in love and you got married, it wouldn't magically make you fall in love. It might have the placebo effect, but that's all.



How can you say that as a irrevocable definite? Granted, I agree that if you aren't in love to begin with, a marriage in of itself isn't going to make love appear just because two people said "I do". But if two people are in love and the marriage serves as a physical/tangible expression of love, how can you say "it isn't about love"?

I don't see how you can be so 'cut & dry' about labeling something you've never experienced. I wholeheartedly see that you personally do not agree that marriage and love have anything to do with each other, those are your feelings and I can't judge your feelings; but how can you tell others what they're feeling when only "you" truly know what you feel?

One day, people will understand that the purpose of a messageboard is to read the messages. One day.

Originally posted by Robtard
How can you say that as a irrevocable definite? Granted, I agree that if you aren't in love to begin with, a marriage in of itself isn't going to make love appear just because two people said "I do". But if two people are in love and the marriage serves as a physical/tangible expression of love, how can you say "it isn't about love"?

I don't know, how can I say it isn't about love? I've never said it wasn't ABOUT love, I've said the two aren't inherently connected, people just happen to connect them. The fact that marriage was invented, and love predates it, proves such. The fact that unmarried couples can live extremely happily proves it too.

I never said it can't be about love for the people, or that love isn't a reason to THEM, just that it's not a logical reason, and that love/marriage aren't inherently connected just because people connect the two.

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't see how you can be so 'cut & dry' about labeling something you've never experienced. I wholeheartedly see that you personally do not agree that marriage and love have anything to do with each other, those are your feelings and I can't judge your feelings; but how can you tell others what they're feeling when only "you" truly know what you feel?

I'm not telling others what they are feeling, I've said this many times now, try reading what I say.

Marriage will always be associated with love...ASSOCIATED WITH. That does not mean the two have an actual link just because people like linking them. They do not. Ergo, someone saying they are getting married for love is fine, but it is illogical as there is no link between the two to suggest that one creates the other. Marriage does not create love, love on its own does not need marriage. So therefore, getting married FOR love is illogical, and getting married BECAUSE of love is illogical. The former being illogical because marriage does not create love, the latter being illogical because marriage isn't necessary for love.

Neither are wrong, both are illogical.

If you wish to connect the two, do so, free world and all that. Just don't act like there is something there that isn't.

It's really simple. Really, it is.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely. You are forcing your blinkered view of personal choice upon me, whom it does not apply to. You won't say anything for sure because you aren't sure. I am. You not being sure doesn't mean I am not.

I don't know what will happen to me, I'm not an oracle, but I am telling you that I will never marry. I know this because it's under my control. I can't say "I won't get hit by a bus.". I don't know that. All I can do is make sure I don't. I can say I won't ever marry because I know I won't.

All of this time and you end with the same question to which I give the same answer: Regarding marriage, no, my thinking will never change. Accept this and move on.

-AC
it's been accepted, trust me. i just have to add on that i think eventually you will change your mind. i know it probably is a bad idea to say that i think this, but it's what i believe. or would you rather have me post something i did not believe in?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
One day, people will understand that the purpose of a messageboard is to read the messages. One day.

I don't know, how can I say it isn't about love? I've never said it wasn't ABOUT love , I've said the two aren't inherently connected, people just happen to connect them. The fact that marriage was invented, and love predates it, proves such. The fact that unmarried couples can live extremely happily proves it too.

I never said it can't be about love for the people, or that love isn't a reason to THEM, just that it's not a logical reason, and that love/marriage aren't inherently connected just because people connect the two.

I'm not telling others what they are feeling, I've said this many times now, try reading what I say.

Marriage will always be associated with love...ASSOCIATED WITH. That does not mean the two have an actual link just because people like linking them. They do not. Ergo, someone saying they are getting married for love is fine, but it is illogical as there is no link between the two to suggest that one creates the other. Marriage does not create love, love on its own does not need marriage. So therefore, getting married FOR love is illogical, and getting married BECAUSE of love is illogical. The former being illogical because marriage does not create love, the latter being illogical because marriage isn't necessary for love.

Neither are wrong, both are illogical.

If you wish to connect the two, do so, free world and all that. Just don't act like there is something there that isn't.

It's really simple. Really, it is.

-AC

Excuse me, but I've read every word you've typed and a few pages back when the debate started between the two of us you had said as fact:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Either way, it has nothing to do with love.

-AC

I agree that marriage and love aren't exclusive or "inherently connected", that isn't the issue as people get married for a wide variety of different reasons as I previously stated and love can be one of those reasons.

And as I've said, if you believe love is illogical as it pertains to marriage I cannot argue against that, as those are YOUR feelings and I can't tell you how you personally feel. But saying marrying someone because you love them is illogical for everyone is simple illogical in itself.

damn...what'd i miss?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
damn...what'd i miss?

AC has changed his mind and he's marrying a male chimpanzee out of love, and not just any love but 'Princess Bride' "True Love".

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
it's been accepted, trust me. i just have to add on that i think eventually you will change your mind. i know it probably is a bad idea to say that i think this, but it's what i believe. or would you rather have me post something i did not believe in?

As long as you know you're wrong, which you are, we're fine. Your opinion isn't untouchable because it's an opinion. It's quite wrong.

Originally posted by Robtard
I agree that marriage and love aren't exclusive or "inherently connected", that isn't the issue as people get married for a wide variety of different reasons as I previously stated and love can be one of those reasons.

Love being a reason to some people does not make it logical. I'm not denying that it's used as a reason, just saying it's not a logical one, as it's not.

Marriage doesn't have anything to do with love, technically speaking. People do it for love sometimes, that's a people issue, not a marriage issue. It's just connected, societal connections have stuck. People connect them, doesn't mean the two are actually connected.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And as I've said, if you believe love is illogical as it pertains to marriage I cannot argue against that, as those are YOUR feelings and I can't tell you how you personally feel. But saying marrying someone because you love them is illogical is simple illogical in itself.

Marrying someone because you love them IS illogical, though. I've proven why, you haven't proven otherwise. So I am to believe that you simply have a problem with me saying it.

Marrying someone out of love is illogical because we've established the two aren't connected.

-AC

no need to knock the guy, it's just that his beliefs are.....out there. nothing wrong with that, after all, he is entitled to his opinion. also, i dont see AC as a chimp lover. he doesnt strike me as the bestiality type. excuse me..."interspecies erotica, ****o."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

no need to knock the guy, it's just that his beliefs are.....out there. nothing wrong with that, after all, he is entitled to his opinion. also, i dont see AC as a chimp lover. he doesnt strike me as the bestiality type. excuse me..."interspecies erotica, ****o."

Point proven.

My beliefs aren't "out there", you just don't get them. Not that this was unexpected, of course.

It's not opinion, either. If you can come and prove me wrong, I'll say it's an opinion. Every time you or Rob question me, I prove precisely why it's illogical. Not one poster has given evidence to the contrary.

-AC

I'm not pro nor anti-marriage so pardon me. As a matter of fact i feel indifferent about it. But Ac. Ok. I'm not trying countering my own thread topic here but i do want to know this. You're saying that it's a fact that getting married is illogical. Now, something illocially done means that it didn't make sense to do it. When 2 people are in love and get married as a result, i don't see how that decision wasn't sensible. Or that it made sense.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven.

My beliefs aren't "out there", you just don't get them. Not that this was unexpected, of course.

It's not opinion, either. If you can come and prove me wrong, I'll say it's an opinion. Every time you or Rob question me, I prove precisely why it's illogical. Not one poster has given evidence to the contrary.

-AC



It's illogical to you because you cannot connect the concept of love, something which can not be measured, weighed or tested scientifically against marriage. To me (and only me) getting married was logical for several reasons, one of them being love. Therefore to me marriage was logical subjectively speaking. Did my "love" need marriage... I don't think so, did my "love" grow solely because of marriage... I can't say for certain. Do those two facts make marriage illogical... they do not.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I'm not pro nor anti-marriage so pardon me. As a matter of fact i feel indifferent about it. But Ac. Ok. I'm not trying countering my own thread topic here but i do want to know this. You're saying that it's a fact that getting married is illogical. Now, something illocially done means that it didn't make sense to do it. When 2 people are in love and get married as a result, i don't see how that decision wasn't sensible. Or that it made sense.

The view or stance of: "We are in love, so therefore we should get married.", is illogical. It doesn't make sense because there nothing to suggest marriage and love are inherently connected.

"We are in love, so we should be together.", fine. Not "We are in love, so we should get married.". There's no sense in signing a legally binding contract for any other reason than monetary gain, it doesn't give anything OTHER than that, being the reason it makes no sense.

I'm saying the decision to marry isn't sensible in the sense of it's a bad choice, I'm saying it LITERALLY doesn't make sense if you break it down. If you wish to know why, then you can see my previous posts.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven.

My beliefs aren't "out there", you just don't get them. Not that this was unexpected, of course.

It's not opinion, either. If you can come and prove me wrong, I'll say it's an opinion. Every time you or Rob question me, I prove precisely why it's illogical. Not one poster has given evidence to the contrary.

-AC
theres nothing proven here other than that you have your own set of beliefs. you proved nothing and gained nothing, also conceding nothing. no one won or lost.

Originally posted by Robtard


It's illogical to you because you cannot connect the concept of love, something which can not be measured, weighed or tested scientifically against marriage. To me (and only me) getting married was logical for several reasons, one of them being love. Therefore to me marriage was logical subjectively speaking. Did my "love" need marriage... I don't think so, did my "love" grow solely because of marriage... I can't say for certain. Do those two facts make marriage illogical... they do not.

No worries, none taken, Rob.

It's not just me, love and marriage factually have no connection. People connecting the two and the two actually having a connection...two totally different ball games, Rob. You agreed to this yourself.

I understand the concept of love, that's precisely why I hold the stance I do. I hold this stance because I respect love and what it means. If people want to marry, if people want to connect love with legality, fine. That doesn't mean the two, outside of people doing so, have a connection. They do not. Love is a human emotion that has existed as long as human consciousness probably. Marriage is a human invention. The two aren't intrinsic.

You are sitting there saying your choice to marry out of love wasn't illogical, but you cannot say why, can you? No. It didn't give you anything emotionally, as not marrying wouldn't have taken anything away in all probability. You probably don't love your wife any more because of marriage, if you do it's because of emotion.

So what that reveals is this: You are just SAYING you married out of love because love was there. If that's not the case, and you did marry out of love, it's illogical, because doing so gave you nothing, besides the aforementioned monetary benefits, that you didn't already have. Nor did it take.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
theres nothing proven here other than that you have your own set of beliefs. you proved nothing and gained nothing, also conceding nothing. no one won or lost.

Ignorance is clearly bliss in your case. I have proven, as I just did again. You are just ignoring it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No worries, none taken, Rob.

It's not just me, love and marriage factually have no connection. People connecting the two and the two actually having a connection...two totally different ball games, Rob. You agreed to this yourself.

I understand the concept of love, that's precisely why I hold the stance I do. I hold this stance because I respect love and what it means. If people want to marry, if people want to connect love with legality, fine. That doesn't mean the two, outside of people doing so, have a connection. They do not. Love is a human emotion that has existed as long as human consciousness probably. Marriage is a human invention. The two aren't intrinsic.

You are sitting there saying your choice to marry out of love wasn't illogical, but you cannot say why, can you? No. It didn't give you anything emotionally, as not marrying wouldn't have taken anything away in all probability. You probably don't love your wife any more because of marriage, if you do it's because of emotion.

So what that reveals is this: You are just SAYING you married out of love because love was there. If that's not the case, and you did marry out of love, it's illogical, because doing so gave you nothing, besides the aforementioned monetary benefits, that you didn't already have. Nor did it take.

-AC

I can, you just won't accept my reasoning as it making sense and being logical to me... Marriage to me (and only me) was a physical means of expressing my love for my then girlfriend.

Originally posted by Robtard
I can, you just won't accept my reasoning as it making sense and being logical to me... Marriage to me (and only me) was a physical means of expressing my love for my then girlfriend.

I accept that to you it was a physical means of expressing love, and it was that. I'm not saying it wasn't.

Just an unnecessary and illogical one.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No worries, none taken, Rob.

It's not just me, love and marriage factually have no connection. People connecting the two and the two actually having a connection...two totally different ball games, Rob. You agreed to this yourself.

I understand the concept of love, that's precisely why I hold the stance I do. I hold this stance because I respect love and what it means. If people want to marry, if people want to connect love with legality, fine. That doesn't mean the two, outside of people doing so, have a connection. They do not. Love is a human emotion that has existed as long as human consciousness probably. Marriage is a human invention. The two aren't intrinsic.

You are sitting there saying your choice to marry out of love wasn't illogical, but you cannot say why, can you? No. It didn't give you anything emotionally, as not marrying wouldn't have taken anything away in all probability. You probably don't love your wife any more because of marriage, if you do it's because of emotion.

So what that reveals is this: You are just SAYING you married out of love because love was there. If that's not the case, and you did marry out of love, it's illogical, because doing so gave you nothing, besides the aforementioned monetary benefits, that you didn't already have. Nor did it take.



Ignorance is clearly bliss in your case. I have proven, as I just did again. You are just ignoring it.

-AC
niiiiiice. the only thing that you have proven is that you are going to stand by what you say. and i have proven that i will stand by what i say. you ask me to PROVE you wrong, to show facts how you are right. i ask you the same. show me facts how i am wrong. you can sya this and that, but it means nothing to me. show me SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that there are no logical reasons to marry outside of monetary reasons. PROVE me wrong. SHOW me that i am wrong. what you say, what you believe in, this means squat to me. show me HARD evidence that points in favor of your argument.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
niiiiiice. the only thing that you have proven is that you are going to stand by what you say. and i have proven that i will stand by what i say. you ask me to PROVE you wrong, to show facts how you are right. i ask you the same. show me facts how i am wrong. you can sya this and that, but it means nothing to me. show me SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that there are no logical reasons to marry outside of monetary reasons. PROVE me wrong. SHOW me that i am wrong. what you say, what you believe in, this means squat to me. show me HARD evidence that points in favor of your argument.

I'm not going to sit here trying to convince an ignorant man that the proof is there. It's there, you either see it or you ignore it, you're choosing to ignore it. There are reasons:

You ignore what I provide then ask for proof. This is because you don't consider it proof, because you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, as shown in our previous discussion about me. The proof is there, you don't see it as proof because you don't know what fact means and why it's different to opinion.

Then there's the fact that you think any choice is logical, which is just so many kinds of bs. That's another reason why you do not see the proof that marriage for any other reason than monetary is illogical, because to you, anything that's subjectively "right" for you is therefore logical. Nothing is illogical to you. You believe "Oh, well if someone makes a choice that's right for them, it's logical.", that is factually incorrect.

If you get frostbite and have two choices; One is going to the doctor to get sorted, the other is self-amputation, what is the logical choice? Doctor. Not self-amptutation, regardless of how "right" it is to someone. So for two people wanting marriage, it being right for them does not make it logical.

Your stance is flawed from the start. You said yourself, what I SAY means squat to you. So nothing I say, proof or otherwise, is going to matter. You just think that being ignorant keeps you in this debate, it doesn't. You're not in the OTF, RJ.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not going to sit here trying to convince an ignorant man that the proof is there. It's there, you either see it or you ignore it, you're choosing to ignore it. There are reasons:

You ignore what I provide then ask for proof. This is because you don't consider it proof, because you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, as shown in our previous discussion about me. The proof is there, you don't see it as proof because you don't know what fact means and why it's different to opinion.

Then there's the fact that you think any choice is logical, which is just so many kinds of bs. That's another reason why you do not see the proof that marriage for any other reason than monetary is illogical, because to you, anything that's subjectively "right" for you is therefore logical. Nothing is illogical to you. You believe "Oh, well if someone makes a choice that's right for them, it's logical.", that is factually incorrect.

If you get frostbite and have two choices; One is going to the doctor to get sorted, the other is self-amputation, what is the logical choice? Doctor. Not self-amptutation, regardless of how "right" it is to someone. So for two people wanting marriage, it being right for them does not make it logical.

Your stance is flawed from the start. You said yourself, what I SAY means squat to you. So nothing I say, proof or otherwise, is going to matter. You just think that being ignorant keeps you in this debate, it doesn't. You're not in the OTF, RJ.

-AC
i see no proof. your word is not enough for me. yes, what you say means squat to me. that's why i need proof. call me ignorant all you want, i could care less.
thing is, i know you cannot provide proof. i am trying to get across to you that just because you believe it is illogical doesnt mean it is illogical. voice your opinion all you want, feel free to say what you will about it, that is expected, but when you try and tell others, especially two guys who have been in long term relationships before, and one of them has wed before, that monetary reasons are the only logical choice to marry, and that this is a fact and not an opinion, then you are gonna take some flak. just because you believe it with every fiber of your being doesnt make it fact.
the term "whipping a dead horse" comes to mind when talking to you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i see no proof. your word is not enough for me. yes, what you say means squat to me. that's why i need proof. call me ignorant all you want, i could care less.
thing is, i know you cannot provide proof. i am trying to get across to you that just because you believe it is illogical doesnt mean it is illogical. voice your opinion all you want, feel free to say what you will about it, that is expected, but when you try and tell others, especially two guys who have been in long term relationships before, and one of them has wed before, that monetary reasons are the only logical choice to marry, and that this is a fact and not an opinion, then you are gonna take some flak. just because you believe it with every fiber of your being doesnt make it fact.
the term "whipping a dead horse" comes to mind when talking to you.

I know you see no proof, clearly you see no sense either. I've given you proof, but the reason you don't consider it proof is because you have a retarded view of what logic is, and since this entire debate is focused on logic, you are on one leg.

To you, everything is logical if it's "right" for a person, and that is factually untrue. Yet, you maintain this position and that is why you see no proof, because to you, it's not proof. Because, to you, logic is whatever's right.

Me believing it doesn't make it a fact, it being a fact is what makes it one. Robtard being married doesn't make it less so, even he hasn't provided me with any proof to the contrary, he can't do so. As for long-term relationships, so what? We've both been in them. Robtard is the only one out of us three who is wed/has been wed, correct? I'm not sure why you believe your relationship with FJ grants you some mass credibility on the issue.

If we are to debate logic, what's logical and/or illogical, then you must first understand what logic is, because as of right now, you do not. I don't know whether the concept is too grand for you or not, but you simply don't grasp it, which is precisely why you dodged my examples of why what's "right" for you isn't necessarily what's logical.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I know you see no proof, clearly you see no sense either. I've given you proof, but the reason you don't consider it proof is because you have a retarded view of what logic is, and since this entire debate is focused on logic, you are on one leg.

To you, everything is logical if it's "right" for a person, and that is factually untrue. Yet, you maintain this position and that is why you see no proof, because to you, it's not proof. Because, to you, logic is whatever's right.

Me believing it doesn't make it a fact, it being a fact is what makes it one. Robtard being married doesn't make it less so, even he hasn't provided me with any proof to the contrary, he can't do so.

If we are to debate logic, what's logical and/or illogical, then you must first understand what logic is, because as of right now, you do not. I don't know whether the concept is too grand for you or not, but you simply don't grasp it, which is precisely why you dodged my examples of why what's "right" for you isn't necessarily what's logical.

-AC
give me a hypothetical situation, a choice one would have to make, where the right choice is illogical. just make something up, off the top of your head.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
give me a hypothetical situation, a choice one would have to make, where the right choice is illogical. just make something up, off the top of your head.

As I said before: "If you get frostbite and have two choices; One is going to the doctor to get sorted, the other is self-amputation, what is the logical choice? Doctor, not self-amptutation, regardless of how "right" it is to someone. So for two people wanting marriage, it being right for them does not make it logical.".

Self-amputation was what the person wanted to do. It was the right choice for THEM. Logical? No. Illogical.

Want another? The age old argument of: "I don't have to spell correctly, I spell casually, I'm not in school.". That's what's right for the person, but is it logical? No, it's not logical. It's illogical.

So we see; Wanting to marry for love may be right for you and your spouse-to-be, but that doesn't make it logical, because there's no reason to marry for love. No reason that makes sense, you're just doing it for the sake of it, because marriage does not give anything emotional or spiritual to a relationship. It CAN, infact, do the opposite.

You and FJ, you're so "in love", right? So in love, so it would seem. A priest/legal agent and a contract won't increase that. Only you two can, nobody else, not some silly legal contract.

This is all probably lost on you, since you simply do not understand logic.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As I said before: "If you get frostbite and have two choices; One is going to the doctor to get sorted, the other is self-amputation, what is the logical choice? Doctor, not self-amptutation, regardless of how "right" it is to someone. So for two people wanting marriage, it being right for them does not make it logical.".

Self-amputation was what the person wanted to do. It was the right choice for THEM. Logical? No. Illogical.

Want another? The age old argument of: "I don't have to spell correctly, I spell casually, I'm not in school.". That's what's right for the person, but is it logical? No, it's not logical. It's illogical.

So we see; Wanting to marry for love may be right for you and your spouse-to-be, but that doesn't make it logical, because there's no reason to marry for love. No reason that makes sense, you're just doing it for the sake of it, because marriage does not give anything emotional or spiritual to a relationship. It CAN, infact, do the opposite.

You and FJ, you're so "in love", right? So in love, so it would seem. A priest/legal agent and a contract won't increase that. Only you two can, nobody else, not some silly legal contract.

This is all probably lost on you, since you simply do not understand logic.

-AC
no, i get it. the frostbite analogy was a no brainer. to me, the right and logical choice would be to have a doctor amputate it.

what i cannot get over here is your assuming that you are 100% correct on this with no room for error. this is ludicrous. no one, not anyone, is always and 100% right. is this how you see yoruself? are you like up on a pedestal or something?

RJ, have the good grace and dignity to not turn this into a debate about not liking my attitude, not again. We've been there and done that a few too many times haven't we?

I'm not going to sit here AGAIN and correct your misintepretations of me. PM me if you want to moan, I know you've been aching to.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
RJ, have the good grace and dignity to not turn this into a debate about not liking my attitude, not again. We've been there and done that a few too many times haven't we?

I'm not going to sit here AGAIN and correct your misintepretations of me. PM me if you want to moan, I know you've been aching to.

-AC
where do you get this from? no, i dont like your attitude, but i never questioned you attitude. i only questioned your line of thought. you really need to get over yourself. i am not moaning, i am just amazed that someone can be so delusional as to think that they are flawless, that they are always correct. i also have no intention of pm'ing you, and there are no aches to do so. once again, get over yourself. for you to post that last line is just childish.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
where do you get this from? no, i dont like your attitude, but i never questioned you attitude. i only questioned your line of thought. you really need to get over yourself. i am not moaning, i am just amazed that someone can be so delusional as to think that they are flawless, that they are always correct. i also have no intention of pm'ing you, and there are no aches to do so. once again, get over yourself. for you to post that last line is just childish.

I don't think I'm flawless, nor always right. In many cases, I am, because I don't debate unless I can A) Back myself up or B) I'm right and can prove it.

I've been in this position with you so many times, and each time it's you throwing a tantrum and saying "YOU THINK YOU'RE GREAT! YOU THINK YOU'RE ALWAYS RIGHT!". Grow up, drop it, move on. If you wanna talk about my attitude. PM me. Any replies henceforth that aren't 100% to do with this topic, sensible replies, will get replied to via PM.

There are people here who wish to debate.

-AC

Can't be bothered reading the past few pages. Seems like it's running in circles.

From what I gather, several people are saying love is a logical reason to marry, while AC is saying that while love is subjectively a reason for marriage, that does not make it objectively sound reasoning (i.e. logical justification) for marriage. Which I can somewhat agree with.

Marriage is an outdated and failing institution. Objectively it adds nothing more to a relationship than legal/monetary contractual obligations and benefits. Love can be a justification for choosing to marry but it can't really be described as a logical decision.

Question for AC: If love to you isn't a logical reason to marry, what reasons do you consider would be logical for marriage?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Marriage is an outdated and failing institution.

How is marriage outdated?

Originally posted by DarkC
Question for AC: If love to you isn't a logical reason to marry, what reasons do you consider would be logical for marriage?

"The monetary benefits"

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
How is marriage outdated?


I was more concerned about the institution failing, people fail, institutions just "are."

"How is marriage outdated?". Good one.

Originally posted by DarkC
Question for AC: If love to you isn't a logical reason to marry, what reasons do you consider would be logical for marriage?

Not just to me, it isn't a logical reason at all. Not sure why everyone is having trouble there.

Personally? I'm not getting married, but from an objective point of view, the monetary benefits are quite factually the only logical reason for marriage.

-AC

So.

When was it worth getting married?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
So.

When was it worth getting married?

Back when everyone lived in houses surrounded by white picket fences, and divorce wasn't happening. And when women stayed at home and cooked shit and pleased their husband.

Originally posted by BackFire
Back when everyone lived in houses surrounded by white picket fences, and divorce wasn't happening. And when women stayed at home and cooked shit and pleased their husband.

Ah, the good ol' fifties.....