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Setting: Luke sucessfully turns Vader back to the light side during their fight in the second Death Star in ROTJ. Then, Vader & Luke fight against Sidious...which side would win? (All of them have their lightsabers)

Sidious conjures up a storm of force lightning on their ass. Fights over in 0.364663 seconds.

This would actually be pretty close.


I don't think ROTJ Sidious knows Force Storm and if he does he can't use it because it would kill him, too. If it were that simple he'd have used it on Vader during the 7 seconds that vader was holding him above his head and carrying him to the Reactor shaft.

Anyways, doesn't ROTJ Sidious not carry a lightsaber on him? It'll still be close, though, cause he's so strong with the Force. If he's able to take out Luke quickly then he'll be able to take Vader. Another possibility is that Luke probably doesn't know how to block lightning with his lightsaber so he could toss some lightning at Luke right away and knock him down, then, while dodging Vader's saber, use the Force to grab Luke's fallen saber before Luke gets back up. Then Sidious could use Luke's saber and without a saber Luke's not much help and Sidious would win with trouble, though, as Vader would still be able to put up a bit of a fight and Luke could help a little. But Sidious will win.

Oh, I didn't see that all of them have their lightsabers. Then Sidious could do the same thing but when Luke's down he could toss Luke's saber down the reactor shaft and Luke will be weaponless and then the same thing happens.

Vader believed that Luke and himself could take on the Emperor...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader believed that Luke and himself could take on the Emperor...
But they may pretty tired because Luke has fight Vader for a while...

Originally posted by darthsith19
This would actually be pretty close.


I don't think ROTJ Sidious knows Force Storm and if he does he can't use it because it would kill him, too. If it were that simple he'd have used it on Vader during the 7 seconds that vader was holding him above his head and carrying him to the Reactor shaft.

Anyways, doesn't ROTJ Sidious not carry a lightsaber on him? It'll still be close, though, cause he's so strong with the Force. If he's able to take out Luke quickly then he'll be able to take Vader. Another possibility is that Luke probably doesn't know how to block lightning with his lightsaber so he could toss some lightning at Luke right away and knock him down, then, while dodging Vader's saber, use the Force to grab Luke's fallen saber before Luke gets back up. Then Sidious could use Luke's saber and without a saber Luke's not much help and Sidious would win with trouble, though, as Vader would still be able to put up a bit of a fight and Luke could help a little. But Sidious will win.

Oh, I didn't see that all of them have their lightsabers. Then Sidious could do the same thing but when Luke's down he could toss Luke's saber down the reactor shaft and Luke will be weaponless and then the same thing happens.
I don't know if Sidious has his lightsaber with him in ROTJ. But this time I get him a lightsaber.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader believed that Luke and himself could take on the Emperor...
When was this? And that's obviously not true because they fought in the movie and guess what happened?

http://massassi.yavin4.com/sw_img/e6star20.jpg

http://massassi.yavin4.com/sw_img/e6star33.jpg

...Episode V...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader believed that Luke and himself could take on the Emperor...

Jolly, I hope this statement was intended to be sarcastic (even though there's not any indication of sarcasm), because we all know that RotJ Luke hasn't got a ghost of a prayer of a chance of a glimmer of hope against any incarnation of Sidious we've seen.

Darthsith is right; Luke had the potential to take on and defeat Sidious, but at that point? Hell. No.

I didn't actually mean a force storm, but a huge wave of lightning, kinda like in KotOR.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
...Episode V...
Yes, Luke and Vader could, if Luke joins Vader and Vader completes his training.

"Join me and I will complete your training. Together we will rule the galaxy as father and son!" he didn't intend to take out Sidious w/ Luke until Luke completed his training.

Originally posted by allfg
I didn't actually mean a force storm, but a huge wave of lightning, kinda like in KotOR.
Proof that Sidious can do that or that it can't be blocked with a lightsaber?

1. We see him do it in the Empire comics, when he kills 100s of stormtroopers.

2. A lightsaber defence doesn't cover enough space to defend against something of that magnitude, it can only be defended against with the force, and Luke has already proven that he isn't strong enough to do so (as can be seen when Sidious starts owning him with lightning), and Vader possesses artificial limbs so he can't either.

well, if it were an alternate storyline keeping with the way SW is meant to be, then Vader as the Chosen One finds a way to fulfill his destiny. Easy answer, I know, .

Otherwise, there's a few variables. 1. Sidious is extremely out of practice with a saber, way more so than in Sith, so Vader and Luke would have an advantage here. Hypothetically, Vader could hurl things at Sidious via the force, and while deflecting those, Luke could run up and swing like a madman hoping to hit something. And if he averted his attention to Luke, Vader could choke him, again leaving him open to saber attacks from Luke. Also We've seen Vader move and do other things while choking people, so he could even walk over and hack away while choking. It really could go either way, but I'm leaning towards father and son.

Huge advantage? Pardon me for saying, but given what we've seen of Luke in Return of the Jedi, I wouldn't hesitate to say that even an out-of-practice Sidious is more capable and more dangerous with a lightsaber than he is. I mean, after all, the last known account of Sidious actually wielding a lightsaber prior to RotS was when he was indoctrinating Darth Maul. Logical deduction and evidence (that Sidious kept his lightsaber buried in a statue), as well as the facts that Sidious was a powerful public official and used Maul and Dooku to carry out his missions, seem to indicate that Palpatine had not touched a lightsaber in at least 13 years prior to RotS. And look at the damage that he was capable of doing - slaughtering three Jedi masters, putting Windu to the test, and stalemating Yoda.

Now, we have Vader. Vader is - actually - in terms of skill, the greater threat (by far) of the two. However, Sidious knows Vader like the back of his old, age-spotted hand, and more importantly, the mechanical suit that Vader wears is extremely susceptible to powerful lightning. Nebaris has already pointed out that Sidious's lightning is too potent for the defenses of a lightsaber to contain, meaning Vader would be out of the fight near-instantly and left to suffocate to death.

Then, we have Luke, who is grossly inexperienced, and his raw power is nothing in the face of such evil. Sidious would slaughter him in seconds if he attacked Luke with the intent to kill.

The father-and-son duo don't have a chance, unless Sidious is saberless and restrained to his chair (as well as cut off from the Force) - and even then they'd have a hard time.

That's Force Lightning, NOT Force Storm lightning.

Unless the JVader uses the Force to direct the lightning that will hit him into his saber and the other lightning passes him on either side.

Unless right away before they do anything Sidious gets Luke down temporarily with Force Lightning and then takes Vader quickly. But although he's out of shape with a saber he's still likely ahead of Luke and Vader.

In that case Palpatine can block the choke and Vader's choke at the same time and still beat Vader.

Sidious takes this, but it want be easy, except if his lightning can defeat Vader quickly.

Originally posted by darthsith19
That's Force Lightning, NOT Force Storm lightning.

No, that's exactly what Nebaris described, "a huge wave of lightning, kinda like in KotOR". He didn't say force storm, you're just continually misinterpreting what he's saying.

Originally posted by Gideon
Huge advantage? Pardon me for saying, but given what we've seen of Luke in Return of the Jedi, I wouldn't hesitate to say that even an out-of-practice Sidious is more capable and more dangerous with a lightsaber than he is. I mean, after all, the last known account of Sidious actually wielding a lightsaber prior to RotS was when he was indoctrinating Darth Maul. Logical deduction and evidence (that Sidious kept his lightsaber buried in a statue), as well as the facts that Sidious was a powerful public official and used Maul and Dooku to carry out his missions, seem to indicate that Palpatine had not touched a lightsaber in at least 13 years prior to RotS. And look at the damage that he was capable of doing - slaughtering three Jedi masters, putting Windu to the test, and stalemating Yoda.

Now, we have Vader. Vader is - actually - in terms of skill, the greater threat (by far) of the two. However, Sidious knows Vader like the back of his old, age-spotted hand, and more importantly, the mechanical suit that Vader wears is extremely susceptible to powerful lightning. Nebaris has already pointed out that Sidious's lightning is too potent for the defenses of a lightsaber to contain, meaning Vader would be out of the fight near-instantly and left to suffocate to death.

Then, we have Luke, who is grossly inexperienced, and his raw power is nothing in the face of such evil. Sidious would slaughter him in seconds if he attacked Luke with the intent to kill.

The father-and-son duo don't have a chance, unless Sidious is saberless and restrained to his chair (as well as cut off from the Force) - and even then they'd have a hard time.


Where did I put "huge advantage"? I said he was more out of practice than he was in ROTS, which he is. Vader and Luke practice I'm sure and would thusly have the advantage together. Not discrediting Sidious, but Vader's no slouch, and if Luke focuses...well he gets pwned regardless. But thats all i was saying is that they have the saber advantage - not huge - just an advantage.