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Well, the strongest characters in DC that I know of are:
Michael
Lucifer
Mr. Mxy

Show me some feats of theirs that prove they could beat Abraxas? You need upwards of multiversal destruction so I want to see some proof that these 3 can destroy the multiverse...which is funny 'cause DC hasn't even had one for a pretty long time.

I take it you don't know much about comics, or at least DC ones.

What about Ultimate Ultimator? He could beat Abraxas.

abraxax can beat mr.mxy

Still waiting for proof that Lucifer/Michael can destroy or create multiverses.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Still waiting for proof that Lucifer/Michael can destroy or create multiverses. So... you also think that LT can't beat him either?
LT hasn't destroyed or recreated a multiverse...

That's like saying you need Superman to beat Doomsday...

Quite a bit of shoddy logic...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well, the strongest characters in DC that I know of are:
Michael
Lucifer
Mr. Mxy

Show me some feats of theirs that prove they could beat Abraxas? You need upwards of multiversal destruction so I want to see some proof that these 3 can destroy the multiverse...which is funny 'cause DC hasn't even had one for a pretty long time.

I take it you dont' read DC much do you?

A. LT can't beat him and wouldn't attempt it. Abraxas is part of the multiverse.
B. Lt has clearly shown powers of many multiverses on multiple occassions, as seen in Mr. M's scans. I want to see some evidence that Lucifer or Michael wield multiversal power.



I want feats.

That's not too hard to ask?

I'm not asking something unreasonalbe like is Silver Surfer faster than lightspeed? That's a commonly known fact that he is. Yet, I've seen it contested numerous times in other threads whether or not Lucifer or Michael are multiversal.

So, I'd like proof that they are.

It's a simple request.

I see a pattern in DC fan logic...

I'm making a simple, humble, easy request to you. You like DC? You read DC? That's cool. Now, I'll ask again: can I see a scan that shows Lucifer or Michael possessing multiversal power?

And it's not polite to answer a question with a question.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I see a pattern in DC fan logic...

I'm making a simple, humble, easy request to you. You like DC? You read DC? That's cool. Now, I'll ask again: can I see a scan that shows Lucifer or Michael possessing multiversal power?

And it's not polite to answer a question with a question.

I"m not putting a scan up. Go look it up or read it. IF you want to know, Elaine, Michael's daughter, remade the multiverse after she took over yeweh's job. God had already made an infinite sea of multiverSES. This was without lucifer's power I might add. Elaine only had her dad's power. As for myx, mxy erased the DCU multiverse, the kingdome, the DCU animated multiverse, vertigo and everything else. he even beat the spectre while doing it. Read DC. it's fun.

Aha.

I thought Elaine recieved Michael's powers of creation?

Which, when Michael died outside of Creation, created a single universe.

Any scans to show it wa s amultiverse?



That's bullshit.

An infinite number of multiverses is an omniverse.

DC has never had one of those.



Already seen you argue with Mr. M over this. He showed several times that nowhere was it said it was a multiverse which Mr. Mxy destroyed.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Aha.

I thought Elaine recieved Michael's powers of creation?

Which, when Michael died outside of Creation, created a single universe.

Any scans to show it wa s amultiverse?



That's bullshit.

An infinite number of multiverses is an omniverse.

DC has never had one of those.



Already seen you argue with Mr. M over this. He showed several times that nowhere was it said it was a multiverse which Mr. Mxy destroyed.

U make a good point

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Aha.

I thought Elaine recieved Michael's powers of creation?

Which, when Michael died outside of Creation, created a single universe.

Any scans to show it wa s amultiverse?



That's bullshit.

An infinite number of multiverses is an omniverse.

DC has never had one of those.



Already seen you argue with Mr. M over this. He showed several times that nowhere was it said it was a multiverse which Mr. Mxy destroyed.

LMAo every one knows mr m is a fool for marvel. Any idiot with half a brain can see that mxy erased exactly what I said. Mr. M doesn't like the fact that mxy did do more on panel than his precious marvel characters. As for the vertigo being a multiverse, I have already been proven right that it is indeed a see of infinite multiverses. Lucifer saw an infinitely overlapping creation (multiverse) then he saw a sea of rising and falling multiverses ( Megaverse or Omniverse if you will) except dc has the decentcy not to use omniverse since that is an industry wide term meaning all of comics. Now try again. Your not doing very well at all.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
A. LT can't beat him and wouldn't attempt it. Abraxas is part of the multiverse.
B. Lt has clearly shown powers of many multiverses on multiple occassions, as seen in Mr. M's scans. I want to see some evidence that Lucifer or Michael wield multiversal power. That's like saying that LT couldn't beat Eternity... but we clearly know he can.

There is one scan where it says he is holding mega verses... whoopidy doo! Yet, he is only holding two people, I really doubt Spectre, or Lucifer can't do this...
He still hasn't shown what you are asking feats from Lucifer...
Everything you say, can be turned around and reflected back on LT...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I want feats.

That's not too hard to ask?

I'm not asking something unreasonalbe like is Silver Surfer faster than lightspeed? That's a commonly known fact that he is. Yet, I've seen it contested numerous times in other threads whether or not Lucifer or Michael are multiversal.

So, I'd like proof that they are.

It's a simple request. Hold on, I actually have to go through comic books while you just wait...

Also, like I said, it doesn't take the UN to beat Abraxas... but it does take the multiverse being reset to fix everything that Abraxas has destroyed/wrecked across the multiverse.

The IG could destroy him... LT could destroy him... Spectre could destroy him, and oddly enough, Micheal/Lucifer are both above him.

Also, even if they couldn't destroy Abraxas (based on what you're saying), Abraxas could do nothing to them...
It's quite an intriguing take.

He happens to be far more respected on this board than you.

And since I've searched numerous threads involving both you and him, it's easy to see why.



I've seen him admit when he's wrong. Something you've certainly never done.

And please remain civil. The universe will not always agree with you. That does not mean the universe is an idiot.

Plenty of people disagree with you at numerous times and agree with Mr. M. They're not all idiots.



I've never heard anything or seen anything of that sort.

Can I get the scan or source?



Why are you being so defensive?

I'm not TRYING to do anything.

I'm asking a question.

I want to see a scan or source that says Lucifer or Michael have multiversal powers. That's all.

While I realize the rage inside you against Marvel is fiersome and the stimulation from DC's penis touching your prostage gland is great, all I am asking for is a scan. Nothing more.

And tha twas intended as a joke. Don't start attacking, again. I promise I won't. All i'm looking for in this topic is proof that Lucifer or Michael have multiversal power.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
He happens to be far more respected on this board than you.

And since I've searched numerous threads involving both you and him, it's easy to see why.



I've seen him admit when he's wrong. Something you've certainly never done.

And please remain civil. The universe will not always agree with you. That does not mean the universe is an idiot.

Plenty of people disagree with you at numerous times and agree with Mr. M. They're not all idiots.



I've never heard anything or seen anything of that sort.

Can I get the scan or source?



Why are you being so defensive?

I'm not TRYING to do anything.

I'm asking a question.

I want to see a scan or source that says Lucifer or Michael have multiversal powers. That's all.

While I realize the rage inside you against Marvel is fiersome and the stimulation from DC's penis touching your prostage gland is great, all I am asking for is a scan. Nothing more.

And tha twas intended as a joke. Don't start attacking, again. I promise I won't. All i'm looking for in this topic is proof that Lucifer or Michael have multiversal power.

Come now lil kid. If your going to try to attack me in a manner mr master does, at least be a "respected" poster. Most of the forum who has been around for the last few weeks knows that I really do know my stuff most of the time. All that old garbage of people respecting master over me was just bullshit becuz I was saying stuff people either didn't like, or didn't know enough about so they just said I didn't have a clue. Elaine, who had mikes power, recreated yeweh's creation in her image. A megaverse/or omniverse if you use marvel's stolen definition. Lucifer is powerful becuz of his will. The LT could tell lucifer to Die or go away, and lucifer would defy him.

LT's powers are given to him by TOAA.

Why the hell would THe One Above All give his servant the power to destroy something necessary to the universe/multiverse?



The Brothers he held were megaverses.

He also exists in all multiverses, as shown in another scan.



The UN destroys the multiverse and makes it so Abraxas never escaped.

Thus, it was the only way to undo him...by undoing that he had ever happened.



I never said it couldn't. I'm looking into that currently.



LT can't do anything unless he's allowed to.



The Spectre is quite weak.

Didn't the Anti-Monitor defeat/give him a run for his money?



Don't care. Not what I'm asking.



Still waiting on scans or sources.

Why does my age matter?



Mr. M remains quite civil with you.

I've seen you throw down the insults more often than not.

Hell, you were the first one to call anyone an "idiot" in here. Unprovoked, unnecessary defensiveness.



I don't care about my respectability. Not the topic at hand.



Scan or source?



Lucifer would likely have no power in Marvel. So, if LT wanted him to go, out he goes.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Why does my age matter?



Mr. M remains quite civil with you.

I've seen you throw down the insults more often than not.

Hell, you were the first one to call anyone an "idiot" in here. Unprovoked, unnecessary defensiveness.



I don't care about my respectability. Not the topic at hand.



Scan or source?



Lucifer would likely have no power in Marvel. So, if LT wanted him to go, out he goes.

In these threads, if someone fights, we are assuming it's on a neutral ground. And lucifer would still have his power in marvel. are you saying that if a green lantern went to marvel, they wouldn't be able to use thier oan energy?

What you proposed was not a fight, though.


What I thought you meant was a hypothetical situation where Lucifer was in Marvel (hence "go away" and LT confronted him.

Apologies if I was incorrect.



I'm not expert on GLs but doesn't all their power come from that Battery on Qa? Would such power transfer over completely to a completely different multiverse?

Just asking.

abraxas can beat mr.mxy

Originally posted by Nikkolas
What you proposed was not a fight, though.


What I thought you meant was a hypothetical situation where Lucifer was in Marvel (hence "go away" and LT confronted him.

Apologies if I was incorrect.



I'm not expert on GLs but doesn't all their power come from that Battery on Qa? Would such power transfer over completely to a completely different multiverse?

Just asking.

The power was in Kyle's ring when they went to the avengers. But Flash, wasn't connected to the speed force any more. he had to have a machine that stored speed force energy in him. The silver surfer woudl probably work the same way. having what ever power he has stored in him in the DCU, but when he runs out, he has no power cosmic to tap into. Lucifer is quite differnt from all these characters becuz HE IS INFINITE WILL. he could go anywhere and still be the same lucifer.

Originally posted by xmeat
abraxas can beat mr.mxy

Okie dokie.


We're back to where we started.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Okie dokie.


We're back to where we started.
Basically all it takes to be God is Infinite will and infinite power to use it. lucifer and mike were both one half God. One with the power, the other with the Will. Mike always did as God said, but lucifer would defy anyone. Even the source. Source>>>>>>>>>>>>>Spectre at Full power. So Lucifer's will gave him the ability to out think anyone and do what ever he wanted. Even defying God. He surely would defy the LT's judgement.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
LT's powers are given to him by TOAA.

Why the hell would THe One Above All give his servant the power to destroy something necessary to the universe/multiverse? He wouldn't, but on the forum he could, just like on the forum he can also destroy Abraxas...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
The Brothers he held were megaverses.

He also exists in all multiverses, as shown in another scan.I know... I said that...

Lucifer can go outside of God's influence...
Outside of God's influence seems to be greater than existing anywhere in the multiverse...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
The UN destroys the multiverse and makes it so Abraxas never escaped.

Thus, it was the only way to undo him...by undoing that he had ever happened. And undoing all the misdeeds he had done...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I never said it couldn't. I'm looking into that currently. And... when has the IG created, or destroyed a multiverse?
So, if it hasn't, that means that it can't beat Abraxas right?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
LT can't do anything unless he's allowed to. I'm talking about raw might... like how we debate on a FORUM?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
The Spectre is quite weak.

Didn't the Anti-Monitor defeat/give him a run for his money? Yes... of course...
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9335/am40tt0.th.jpg

Now, if Spectre/Anti-Monitor is still weak, then you're going to have to show me LT seeing things unseen by God...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Don't care. Not what I'm asking. Good... because power level means nothing on this board...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Still waiting on scans or sources. Of course... of course...
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9673/lucifermultiverseos8ip7.th.jpg

Anyway... even without proof... why would Lucifer need to create multiverse to beat him?

Like I said... that would be like saying only Superman can beat Doomsday...

You would think that if you were hundreds of times more powerful than your opponent... ermm

I mean, when you turn down ACTUAL Godhood... it seems that you don't give a shit about making a multiverse...
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4593/lucifer75p38ld2.th.jpg

Anyway... Lucifer wipes him out of existence...

Didn't God have to permit him to do that?

And that only shows that the earlier claim of an omniverse is BS. There is no "outside" of "what is all."


a
Because one needs multiversal power to beat a multiversal being?

Seems simple.



Not what I'm saying at all.



Who says Lucifer is hundreds of times more powerful tahn Abraxas?

He didn't do much.

It was Michael's power that made that place, am I right?

And one multiverse's worth of power, "hundreds of times more powerful" than Abraxas does not make.

If that works...I don't think it does but I started righting the sentence and yeah... Oh well.



Turning down Godhood means nothing to a character's power.
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4593/lucifer75p38ld2.th.jpg

Anyway... Lucifer wipes him out of existence...

Yeah, I see parts of that don't look right. Had to post it in a hurry.

Anything you need me to clarify on what I meant?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Didn't God have to permit him to do that?

And that only shows that the earlier claim of an omniverse is BS. There is no "outside" of "what is all." Well... obviously there is...


Originally posted by Nikkolas
a
Because one needs multiversal power to beat a multiversal being?

Seems simple. Goes back to the old, HOTU being universal, or multiversal...

If HOTU was universal, then he took out the multiversal LT.

Abraxas... a multiversal being has also taken out the omniversal being called Roma...
So, no, your logic doesn't exactly work, and anyway... Lucifer is easily a multiversal being, so...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Not what I'm saying at all. It's what it seems like to me...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Who says Lucifer is hundreds of times more powerful tahn Abraxas?

He didn't do much.

It was Michael's power that made that place, am I right?

And one multiverse's worth of power, "hundreds of times more powerful" than Abraxas does not make.

If that works...I don't think it does but I started righting the sentence and yeah... Oh well. I say he is hundreds of times more powerful than Abraxas...

Also, Lucifer is as powerful as Micheal, and Micheal is more powerful than Spectre...
Who, oddly enough, Spectre=LT...

Also, Lucifer has even killed Micheal...

Hell Lucifer kills IMMORTAL beings when he has very, very little power...
Death has no claim over him.

He is simply beyond all this jazz.


Originally posted by Nikkolas
Turning down Godhood means nothing to a character's power.
It shows that he has power in spades, and that he could give a shit about creating things, or the power to be God.

Lucifer beats Abraxas... it is almost a silly debate being had at hand...

An omniverse is everything - an infinite collection of multiverses.

You can't go "outside" that... it's everything.



Evidence to show she may have faked her death, however.

And, besides, does she have omniversal power? Could she, on her own, simply start effecting dozens or hundres of multiverses?



How so?

Tell me one universal being who has beaten, under their own power, a real multiversal being.



I said you had to have the power to destroy the multiverse to beat Abraxas.

How is that remotely similar to only Superman can beat Doomsday?

The only way they are even close is that one can say that being Superman-level of multiversal-destroying level is the basis for being able to beat Doomsday/Abraxas.



Aha.

I've actually heard people debate this before and most say Michael is stronger than Lucifer.



And when was Spectre in multiversal-destroying range?

Has he even destroyed a universe?



Yeah...that's why in pretty much every fight with LT and Spectre on these and other comic book boards, LT wins...

Spectre isn't close to LT in power. Never has been.

Crossovers aren't canon and that's the only place I remember hearing they are equals.



I'm sure this was in a titanic fight? Both at their peaks with no other factors?

Considering they're both, by your estimation, super-multiversal Saiyan Level 1000, they should have been destroyign universes with their fight if it actually was a fight.



Then they obviously weren't immortal.....

And what is "very, very little power..."? So much for being uber-multiversal.



Good for him.

Since he was created before Death, that does make sense...ya know?

Death has no claim on Galactus, either.



Exactly.

It has to do with his character, not his power-level.



What debate are you in?

I was asking a question.

I got an answer.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
An omniverse is everything - an infinite collection of multiverses.

You can't go "outside" that... it's everything. Wouldn't God be outside this?

Also, where exactly did I say anything about omniverse, for that to be brought up?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Evidence to show she may have faked her death, however.

And, besides, does she have omniversal power? Could she, on her own, simply start effecting dozens or hundres of multiverses? He still beat her... I never said anything about her dying...

She is an omniversal being... through and through... you know... OMNIVERSAL GUARDIAN.

Why exactly would Roma do this?


Originally posted by Nikkolas
How so?

Tell me one universal being who has beaten, under their own power, a real multiversal being. If HOTU is indeed universal, like the whole comic intends it to be...

Also, Abraxas...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I said you had to have the power to destroy the multiverse to beat Abraxas.

How is that remotely similar to only Superman can beat Doomsday?

The only way they are even close is that one can say that being Superman-level of multiversal-destroying level is the basis for being able to beat Doomsday/Abraxas. Because...

Abraxas has only been beaten by the multiverse being remade, so people ASSUME that this is the only way to beat him.

Superman (besides Imperiex, and the select handful of people), is the only one who has beaten Doomsday, so Superman should be the only one to beat Doomsday... right?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Aha.

I've actually heard people debate this before and most say Michael is stronger than Lucifer. And... they base this on what?

Keep in mind, I'm not the majority, and I never will be, so pre-tell, why he is more powerful...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
And when was Spectre in multiversal-destroying range?

Has he even destroyed a universe? In that scan you ignored earlier with AM, he just destroyed and remade the universe...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Yeah...that's why in pretty much every fight with LT and Spectre on these and other comic book boards, LT wins...

Spectre isn't close to LT in power. Never has been. When?

You base this on... what exactly? Other people?

I don't see comics even being brought into this...

Also, Spectre can actually surpass LT... so... I don't see your point...
Merge with the Source?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Crossovers aren't canon and that's the only place I remember hearing they are equals. OK then, you think God's Wrath would be below the Judgement that has failed many a time?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I'm sure this was in a titanic fight? Both at their peaks with no other factors?

Considering they're both, by your estimation, super-multiversal Saiyan Level 1000, they should have been destroyign universes with their fight if it actually was a fight. Nope... but this could be used against LT... ya know... I mean, when him and all the abstracts attacked HOTU... LT was there, he should have destroyed multiverses with his blasts, based on what you said...
You don't have to destroy everything to prove your power... especially when they don't wrecklessly fired blasts all around them...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Then they obviously weren't immortal.....

And what is "very, very little power..."? So much for being uber-multiversal. Except he was the immortal wolf of destruction...

Being depowered, and everyone thinking he has NO power?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Good for him.

Since he was created before Death, that does make sense...ya know?

Death has no claim on Galactus, either. Is that why Galactus has died... twice?
Hell the second time, Death would have taken him down, if it wasn't for Strange...

Or, when Abraxas was going on his rampage...

Or when Death showed up to Galactus, and she said it wasn't his time?

Quite the no claim, it is...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Exactly.

It has to do with his character, not his power-level.
And exactly why even if there was no proof of him creating a multiverse, that it would be due to character, not power level.

How many people do you see just creating multiverses?


Originally posted by Nikkolas
What debate are you in?

I was asking a question.

I got an answer. Car?

Look at what I originally said.


I was talking about the other user.



I didn't ask if she would. I asked if she chould, which I don't think she can.

She may be the guardian of the omniverse but I don't see her as having omniversal powers where she can start effecting the infinite number of multiverses in the MU on her own.



But it's not.

Mr. M has already shown that.

Thanos had already taken Eternity (one universe) and LT. Yet he kept going...

It's nothing more than typical DC fans downplaying anything and everything to do with Marvel.

Mr. Mxy can beat Pre-Retcon Beyonder, ya see.



Roma doesn't have omniversal power, last I checked.



We don't assume.

We go by what is on the pages.

The only thing Abraxas feared was the UN.

Reed confirms it is the only thing that can stop him.

Thus, going by what is ON PANEL, we conclude, not assume, that destroying the multiverse was the only way to stop him and is what is necessary to defeat him.

YOU assume that there might be another way. WE go by what's on panel.



A. I don't know and B. I don't care.

Just telling you what I've seen.

Try the Search function.



I didn't ignore it.

I looked at it, then looked at Lucifer scan.

Loading crap on dial-up is a pain so I exitted out before the Spectre scan wa sfully loaded.

Pardon me and thank you.

Still, that's universal power.

Long way to go before multiversal.



I base it on feats.

LT shutting down the IG = Bigger feat than anything Spectre's done.

ANd merging with the Source...does what?

What feats does Spectre have when merged with the Source?

I remember him...oh, getting beaten silly by the GEB.

I realize GEB > LT but, still... Spectre's feats while merged with the Source aren't anything remarkable to put him above LT.

Only fan speculation makes that statement.



A. Far as I know, it's failed in non-canon alternate realities, What Ifs and only once in continuity, when TOAA allowed it.
B. Considering how often the Spectre loses, God's Wrath is more like the anger of a 2-year-old.
Pissed off...but can't do much about it.



Far as I know, LT's purpose is to keep balance.

I would surmirse destroying multiverses would cause imbalance....



Point.

But, in other beings like Odin (who is not in the habbit of ya know, just shooting randomly) their destructive power still can destroy galaxies.

So...it's a mystery.



Look up immortal...then read what you wrote. It doesn't make sense. It's like saying there's an end to infinity.



Well...they were wrong/



He didn't die in the Abraxas arc. He reverted to his Natural State.

What was the other time?



Sounds like PIS writing.

Galactus is the equal to Eternity and Death.

And, if this was the "second time" then that means he should have, again, reverted to the star-form he originally took.



And Galactus didn't die then. It's his Natural State...



PIS writing.



Indeed.



Not following you.

I said he chose not to be God because he didn't want to.

How does that relate to his power-level?

Why is it even a feat?

I think Abraxas is on pair with the Anti-Monitor, at least I would like to see that battle.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Look at what I originally said.


I was talking about the other user. Good... since you are replying to me...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I didn't ask if she would. I asked if she chould, which I don't think she can.

She may be the guardian of the omniverse but I don't see her as having omniversal powers where she can start effecting the infinite number of multiverses in the MU on her own. You can't see it, so it can't be true?

Anyway, she is omniversal, no matter what you say, and you don't have to destroy everything to prove it either.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
But it's not.

Mr. M has already shown that.

Thanos had already taken Eternity (one universe) and LT. Yet he kept going...

It's nothing more than typical DC fans downplaying anything and everything to do with Marvel.

Mr. Mxy can beat Pre-Retcon Beyonder, ya see. No, he hasn't.
He got everyone to speculate based on one scan, while the other couple of pages in the HOTU arc, all say it affecting the universe...

Did you even read the HOTU arc, or even the Infinity Abyss?
They seemed to ret-con things about the universe....

Did you just call me a DC fan? Know what you're saying, before you make accusations... really... Thanos is also my favorite character, so your comment, was really quite dumb actually.

I am a big Marvel fan, but unlike MOST on this board, I don't let that cloud my judgement. Or, I won't ignore evidence to see what actually happened...

Hell... if you read it through, it would seem that God had stuck him in there to reset the balance of ONE universe... it would be pointless for him to affect the entire multiverse, but he did have the power to.

It was basically God's power, but he doesn't have to destroy the multiverse, for him to prove it either. Like many on this board seem to think...

Also, if he were to destroy the multiverse, he would have also destroyed Atleza's realm too... did he?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Roma doesn't have omniversal power, last I checked. But she is omniversal... so what's your point?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
We don't assume.

We go by what is on the pages.

The only thing Abraxas feared was the UN.

Reed confirms it is the only thing that can stop him.

Thus, going by what is ON PANEL, we conclude, not assume, that destroying the multiverse was the only way to stop him and is what is necessary to defeat him.

YOU assume that there might be another way. WE go by what's on panel. No, you're assuming that since he was beat that way, he can ONLY be beat that way...

Reed also had to reset everything back to normal, still doesn't equate to him not being able to be beat...

I like this page the best...
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8072/26iq3.th.jpg



Originally posted by Nikkolas
A. I don't know and B. I don't care.

Just telling you what I've seen.

Try the Search function. And, if you can't prove it, then don't bring it up... interesting...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I didn't ignore it.

I looked at it, then looked at Lucifer scan.

Loading crap on dial-up is a pain so I exitted out before the Spectre scan wa sfully loaded.

Pardon me and thank you.

Still, that's universal power.

Long way to go before multiversal. He was seeing things that his master hasn't seen...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
I base it on feats.

LT shutting down the IG = Bigger feat than anything Spectre's done.

ANd merging with the Source...does what?

What feats does Spectre have when merged with the Source?

I remember him...oh, getting beaten silly by the GEB.

I realize GEB > LT but, still... Spectre's feats while merged with the Source aren't anything remarkable to put him above LT.

Only fan speculation makes that statement. The Source powers almost everything in DC...
He was essentially God when he did this...

That... was quite a dumb comment...
Since, if you indeed know anything about GEB, then you would know that he equals God...
That's like me saying that LT has been beaten by TOAA... learn something about DC/Vertigo...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
A. Far as I know, it's failed in non-canon alternate realities, What Ifs and only once in continuity, when TOAA allowed it.
B. Considering how often the Spectre loses, God's Wrath is more like the anger of a 2-year-old.
Pissed off...but can't do much about it. And yet, if you knew anything about LT, you would know that their is only one... so everything that happens to him, is canon to him...

How often does Spectre lose?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Far as I know, LT's purpose is to keep balance.

I would surmirse destroying multiverses would cause imbalance.... Ya, I know, that is why I said it.

Just because you're powerful, doesn't mean you have to destroy everything... you see?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Point.

But, in other beings like Odin (who is not in the habbit of ya know, just shooting randomly) their destructive power still can destroy galaxies.

So...it's a mystery. And yet, LT didn't destroy galaxies when he fires off... so... it's a mystery indeed, isn't it?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Look up immortal...then read what you wrote. It doesn't make sense. It's like saying there's an end to infinity. He was immortal... just that Lucifer is powerful enough to overpower this.

It makes perfect sense actually.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well...they were wrong/ And to me, that would be very little power...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
He didn't die in the Abraxas arc. He reverted to his Natural State.

What was the other time? Did you even read the Abraxas arc?
He didn't die then, he died in his mini-series...

Also, even though he was a star, he was still very much dead...


Originally posted by Nikkolas
Sounds like PIS writing.

Galactus is the equal to Eternity and Death.

And, if this was the "second time" then that means he should have, again, reverted to the star-form he originally took. I meant first time...

Galactus, Strange, Surfer, and Nova, all got destroyed by Magus.
They went to Death's realm.

It was said that, Galactus would reform if given the time, but Death was going to kill him right away.
Strange held Death off long enough for Galactus to reform and bring everyone back.

Oh ya... this was a couple years BEFORE he died in his mini...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
And Galactus didn't die then. It's his Natural State... Umm... Abraxas was killing off a bunch of Galactus's all across the multiverse...

The Galactus you're referring to, got brought back in the Abraxas arc...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
PIS writing. If you're going to claim pis, then you might also want to find me the time, where Death has no claim over Galactus...

Everything I have said about him, is usable...

Also, if you want to go see them, they are in the Galactus respect thread I have made...
His Death, the Infinity War death, him getting brought back in the Abraxas arc, and Death saying it's not his time...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Indeed. Quite...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Not following you.

I said he chose not to be God because he didn't want to.

How does that relate to his power-level?

Why is it even a feat? Because if Lucifer doesn't want to be God, then why would he go around and create multiverses and shit?

Why does he have to have all these monster feats to prove something?

Originally posted by bigbran
There is one scan where it says he is holding mega verses... whoopidy doo! Yet, he is only holding two people,

The embodiments of Two Megaverses, Not Two people.



Originally posted by bigbran
I really doubt Spectre, or Lucifer can't do this...

You may be sure, but he wants proof.

Of something that at the very least indicates they can.


Originally posted by bigbran
Also, like I said, it doesn't take the UN to beat Abraxas... but it does take the multiverse being reset to fix everything that Abraxas has destroyed/wrecked across the multiverse.

According to the Abraxas Arc, ONLY the UN was able to banish Abraxas.

Basically you have to have the power to Erase and then Re-Create a Multiverse in order to defeat Abraxas.


Originally posted by bigbran
The IG could destroy him...

It's plausible.

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas


I have to agree actually.


Originally posted by bigbran
LT could destroy him...

LT most certainly has the power to destroy Abraxas but LT could never touch him.

Abraxas is the embodiment of Destruction, and as such cannot be interfered with by the LT.

Abraxas must be allowed to serve his purpose when concerning the LT.


This is why he didn't show up, even though Abaraxas was collapsing the Muliverse just by stepping into Universes.


Originally posted by bigbran
Spectre could destroy him, and oddly enough, Micheal/Lucifer are both above him.

That Spectre merged with the Source surely can.

I don't think a normal Spectre can.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The embodiments of Two Megaverses, Not Two people. And yet, they were smaller than LT...

I don't remember two megaverses being smaller than Eternity...






Originally posted by Mr Master
You may be sure, but he wants proof.

Of something that at the very least indicates they can.
I already tried to give him proof... he ignored it...



Originally posted by Mr Master
According to the Abraxas Arc, ONLY the UN was able to banish Abraxas.

Basically you have to have the power to Erase and then Re-Create a Multiverse in order to defeat Abraxas. Umm... please, of course only the UN could do it...

What other weapon has the power to take him out? If the IG was there, he would have been gone, if LT was mad, he would have been gone...

The UN was the most powerful weapon in existence basically, and the only thing that would really allow Reed to take it to Abraxas.




Originally posted by Mr Master
It's plausible.

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas


I have to agree actually. Sexellent...




Originally posted by Mr Master
LT most certainly has the power to destroy Abraxas but LT would never touch him.

Abraxas is the embodiment of Destruction, and a such cannot be interfered with by the LT.

Abraxas must be allowed to serve his purpose when concerning the LT.


This is why he didn't show up, even though Abaraxas was collapsing the Muliverse just ny stepping into Universes. We talk about characters as they are in the forum... in a comic... no.

In the forum, LT would crush the shit out of Abraxas.

That's like saying that LT can't take down Eternity...




Originally posted by Mr Master
That Spectre merged with the Source surely can.

I don't think a normal Spectre can. And... you get this from?

Originally posted by bigbran
No, he hasn't.
He got everyone to speculate based on one scan, while the other couple of pages in the HOTU arc, all say it affecting the universe...

Yes he has.

I didn't get everyone to speculate, I constructed a comprehensible argument and enlightened the rest.


Originally posted by bigbran
Did you even read the HOTU arc, or even the Infinity Abyss?
They seemed to ret-con things about the universe....

I have both and read both, and it's still the Multiverse that Thanos absorbed.


Originally posted by bigbran
Hell... if you read it through, it would seem that God had stuck him in there to reset the balance of ONE universe... it would be pointless for him to affect the entire multiverse, but he did have the power to.

The Flaw was Univertsal, and Thanos probably didn't have to Re-Create the enitre Multiverse to fix the problem, but he did anyway in an absorption frenzy.

That's why it's titled,


MARVEL: The End.


And please do show me where you read "ONE" Universe.

Or "A" universe

Or "Single" Universe.


You'll find "THE" Universe, which is the Marvel Universe = the Multiverse.



Originally posted by bigbran
It was basically God's power, but he doesn't have to destroy the multiverse, for him to prove it either. Like many on this board seem to think...

Thanos Re-Created the Multiverse!


I think it, because of the On Panel proof and Official Bio stated by Marvel.


Originally posted by bigbran
Also, if he were to destroy the multiverse, he would have also destroyed Atleza's realm too... did he?

Negative.

Atleza's Realm is beyond Space and Time.

Space and Time make up Reality in the Universe & Multiverse.

Anything OUTSIDE of Space & Time (like Atleza's Realm and Death's) is OUTSIDE the influence of Eternity & Infinity.

Which is why they survived Thanos's absorption.


Originally posted by bigbran
But she is omniversal... so what's your point?

Roma FAKED her Death just like her Father Merlyn did before her On Panel.


Reed Remade the Multiverse, Roma was supposedly "killed" outside the Multiverse,

how did she re-emerge, if she had nothing to do with the Multiverse's recreation?


Originally posted by bigbran
No, you're assuming that since he was beat that way, he can ONLY be beat that way...

Reed also had to reset everything back to normal, still doesn't equate to him not being able to be beat...

And, if you can't prove it, then don't bring it up... .

I can prove it.



The ONLY way to Banish Abraxas was to Erase and Create a NEW Multi-verse in which Abraxas never manifested in.



Here Roma says it:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg





Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:


"But THIS Time, THIS Day can END ONLY ONE WAY"

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2953/u1ok8.th.jpg

Reed says, "Yes.... God help me, I can see that now"





Here when Reed uses the UN, Abaxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do, You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"



So you see, it's quite clear that Abraxas himself KNEW, the ONLY possible way to get rid of him, (even if he used it himself), was with the Ultimate Nullifier.


Originally posted by bigbran
And yet, if you knew anything about LT, you would know that their is only one... so everything that happens to him, is canon to him...

How often does Spectre lose?

When has LT lost with the exception of THOTI? (Power of GOD/TOAA)

I suggest you read what I said again...

He was seeing things Presence hadn't seen?

And Lucifer was going outside of Creation?

How eeak is DC's God?



I don't really care.

Give me some feats of Spectre merged with The Source.

It's not a dumb comment to request feats of how powerful Spectre was when he merged with the Source.

It's simply wanting facts.

And I said GEB > LT. I know GEB = God. That's irrelevant.




'cause average Spectre is pretty weak.

Not even close to multiversal levels of power.

Originally posted by bigbran
And yet, they were smaller than LT...

I don't remember two megaverses being smaller than Eternity...

What makes you think LT can't increase his stature to whatever proportions?

Or better yet,

what makes you think LT can't miniturize the Brothers to put them in his hand?


Regardless, they are the embodiments of TWo Megaverses and there's no getting around that.



Originally posted by bigbran
Umm... please, of course only the UN could do it...

What other weapon has the power to take him out? If the IG was there, he would have been gone, if LT was mad, he would have been gone...

The UN was the most powerful weapon in existence basically, and the only thing that would really allow Reed to take it to Abraxas.

That's a sound speculation but specualtion nontheless.

On Panel it was the ONLY possible way to stop him.




Originally posted by bigbran
We talk about characters as they are in the forum... in a comic... no.

In the forum, LT would crush the shit out of Abraxas.

That's like saying that LT can't take down Eternity...

I know that potna, I'm a kmc vet.

I was just making a factual statement.


Still, yes I agree, LT>Abraxas


Originally posted by bigbran
And... you get this from?

Get what from?

I said Spectre merged with the Source can take out Abraxas.

Normal Spectre can't (imo from what I know about him)

Mr. M, I asked about Abraxas and the IG in your Everything COSMIC thread.

Just interested in hearing your full thoughts on that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I said Spectre merged with the Source can take out Abraxas.

Normal Spectre can't (imo from what I know about him)
Spectre with either Corrigan or Hal would most definitely kill Abraxas.
Like you said before you would need to remake the multiverse to get rid of Abraxas,Spectre has already done that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes he has.

I didn't get everyone to speculate, I constructed a comprehensible argument and enlightened the rest. Yes of course you did.

But I mean, speculated off of that scan of the "threatening" thing.

That wasn't a personal attack, so don't take it as one.




Originally posted by Mr Master
I have both and read both, and it's still the Multiverse that Thanos absorbed. I disagree... still.




Originally posted by Mr Master
The Flaw was Univertsal, and Thnaos probably didn't have to Re-Create the enitre Multiverse to fix the problem, but he did anyway in an absorption frenzy.

That's why it's titled,


MARVEL: The End.


And please do show me where you read "ONE" Universe.

Or "A" universe

Or "Single" Universe.


You'll find "THE" Universe, which is the Marvel Universe = the Multiverse. What about "THIS" universe?

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1795/theend612tatole7.th.jpg

Does that mean numerous universes?




Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos Re-Created the Multiverse!


I think it, because of the On Panel proof and Official Bio stated by Marvel. no2

There is no on-panel evidence...
Wasn't it also stated to be a universe in LT's bio?
I'm too lazy to retrieve it though...

So, I'll stick to the comics...




Originally posted by Mr Master
Negative.

Atleza's Realm is beyond Space and Time.

Space and Time make up Reality in the Universe & Multiverse.

Anything OUTSIDE of Space & Time (like Atleza's Realm and Death's) is OUTSIDE the influence od Eternity & Infinity.

Which is why they survived Thanos's absorption. Affirmative.

Warlock exits the universe/orb, and he says he is leaving time and space.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7980/infinityabyss4of605av4.th.jpg

He is indeed outside of Eternity's and Infinity's influence.
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5448/infinityabyss4of620yd1.th.jpg

That whole area is outside of time and space.
So, your logic works against him absorbing the multiverse too...




Originally posted by Mr Master
Roma FAKED her Death just like her Father Merlyn did before her On Panel.


Reed Remade the Multiverse, Roma was supposedly "killed" outside the Multiverse,

how did she re-emerge, if she had nothing to do with the Multiverses recreation? WTF are you talking about?

I never said anything about her dying...


Originally posted by Mr Master
.

I can prove it.



The ONLY way to Banish Abraxas was to Erase and Create a NEW Multi-verse in which Abraxas never manifested in.



Here Roma says it:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg





Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:


"But THIS Time, THIS Day can END ONLY ONE WAY"

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2953/u1ok8.th.jpg

Reed says, "Yes.... God help me, I can see that now"





Here when Reed uses the UN, Abaxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do, You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"



So you see, it's quite clear that Abraxas himself KNEW, the ONLY possible way to get rid of him, (even if he used it himself), was with the Ultimate Nullifier.
OK, what other weapon had the power to take down Abraxas?

Really, the UN was the most powerful thing at the time...



Originally posted by Mr Master
When has LT lost with the exception of THOTI (Power of GOD) Reed.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What makes you think LT can't increase his stature to whatever proportions?

Or better yet,

what makes you think LT can't miniturize the Brothers to put them in his hand?


Regardless, they are the embodiments of TWo Megaverses and there's no getting around that.I know what they were... I'm just saying that their stature was able for LT to hold them.

Anyway, I don't care.
Since he has only held them, he hasn't destroyed them, like the person I was debating before thought that he has.





Originally posted by Mr Master
That's a sound speculation but specualtion nontheless.

On Panel it was the ONLY possible way to stop him.Isn't it specualting to think that he can only be stopped by the UN?






Originally posted by Mr Master
I know that potna, I'm a kmc vet.

I was just making a factual statement.


Still, yes I agree, LT>AbraxasOk, good.




Originally posted by Mr Master
Get what from?

I said Spectre merged with the Source can take out Abraxas.

Normal Spectre can't (imo from what I know about him) I disagree... I think that a normal Spectre can take him...

Anyway, do you think that Lucifer can beat Abraxas, or not?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. M, I asked about Abraxas and the IG in your Everything COSMIC thread.

Just interested in hearing your full thoughts on that.

It's quite simple considering their histories.


Incomplete IG>UN

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas


IG>Abraxas.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's quite simple considering their histories.


Incomplete IG>UN

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas


IG>Abraxas.


Wouldn't it be IG>>Abraxas?

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes of course you did.

But I mean, speculated off of that scan of the "threatening" thing.

If you think I banked my whole argument on ONE scan, you slept through our debate.


Originally posted by bigbran
That wasn't a personal attack, so don't take it as one.

I haven't, we may disagree, but you know I respect your debating skills and Comic book knowledge and I'm sure you feel the same about me.

You better



Originally posted by bigbran
I disagree... still.

That's cool.



Originally posted by bigbran
What about "THIS" universe?

Does that mean numerous universes?

As in "THIS" Multiverse?



Originally posted by bigbran
There is no on-panel evidence...

I disagree.




Originally posted by bigbran
Wasn't it also stated to be a universe in LT's bio?
I'm too lazy to retrieve it though...

So, I'll stick to the comics...

NO.

You can get the bio, I'm positive about that.


Originally posted by bigbran
Warlock exits the universe/orb, and he says he is leaving time and space.

He is indeed outside of Eternity's and Infinity's influence.

That whole area is outside of time and space.
So, your logic works against him absorbing the multiverse too...

Negative.

While the Blue Balls are separated from the others, they're still part of the whole.

Why do you think it's possible for beings to collapse the Multiverse, if they couldn't reach another Universe?

By your logic, that would be impossible.



Originally posted by bigbran
WTF are you talking about?

I never said anything about her dying...

I just checked, you're right you didn't say that, you said "Abraxas beat her"


I bet Roma manipulated her own defeat, to complete Valeria's training

That's one of the reasons Merlyn Faked his death, to complete Roma's training amongst other reasons.


Originally posted by bigbran
OK, what other weapon had the power to take down Abraxas?

Really, the UN was the most powerful thing at the time...

That's inconsequential.

The fact is, it's clearly stated to be his ONLY weakness.



Originally posted by bigbran
Reed.



LT and Reed never battled.

And that move Reed pulled off with his Canon would have never worked had he shot LT directly with it.


Reed used the LT's and the Cosmic's own power against them, while they were concentrating their powers into a single point, Reed shot his Canon into the concentration of power, this intern shot the Cosmic's and LT's powers back at them ultimately blowing them into other Universes.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9383/reedsuper4hl5.th.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9347/reedsuper5le6.th.jpg

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1729/reedsuper6iq6.th.jpg


Not exactly a win for Reed.

Originally posted by bigbran
I know what they were... I'm just saying that their stature was able for LT to hold them.

Anyway, I don't care.
Since he has only held them, he hasn't destroyed them, like the person I was debating before thought that he has.

Fair enuff.

LT did manipulate the Two Megaverses though, he was part of their Creation.


Originally posted by bigbran
Isn't it specualting to think that he can only be stopped by the UN?

I would say by any power that can do what was done.

Erase the Multiverse, and Create a new one.


Originally posted by bigbran
I disagree... I think that a normal Spectre can take him...

Anyway, do you think that Lucifer can beat Abraxas, or not?

You know I admittingly don't know much about DC.

But like I said, if Luc can Erase and Create a Multiverse,

then yes I would say he can defeat Abraxas.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you think I banked my whole argument on ONE scan, you slept through our debate. Nope, just saying that the scans from Hotu come from the threatening part, and the Death scan, the others are taken from different comics...




Originally posted by Mr Master
I haven't, we may disagree, but you know I respect you and you debating skills and Comic book knowledge and I'm sure you feel the same about me.

You better Of course...





Originally posted by Mr Master
As in "THIS" Multiverse? Wouldn't that mean that there is only one Adam Warlock in the multiverse then?

Also, based on your logic, every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse?
So, when exactly is anything universal?

Using your logic...
Does this look like the multiverse to you?
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/7660/marveltheend510ik2.th.jpg

Certainly doesn't to me...





Originally posted by Mr Master
NO.

You can get the bio, I'm positive about that. I'm lazy... but...
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5278/5810140581sy1.th.jpg
First paragraph on the side, where his power levels are shown...




Originally posted by Mr Master
Negative.

While the Blue Balls are separated from the others, they're still part of the whole.

Why do you think it's possible for beings to collapse the Multiverse, if they couldn't reach another Universe.

By your logic, that would be impossible. Affirmative.

To get to those other balls though, they would have to pass through the place where there is no time or space... Thanos had said he had destroyed all time and space in the universe (or multiverse to you)... how exactly would he do this, without destroying Warlock?

If Warlock had the power, he could have destroyed the entire multiverse...

Not impossible.

Thanos was manipulated though, others aren't.




Originally posted by Mr Master
I just checked, you're right you didn't say that, you said "Abraxas beat her"


I bet Roma manipulated her own defeat, to complete Valeria' training

That's one of the reasons Merlyn Faked his death, to complete Roma's training amongst other reasons. Still though, this is one of the examples why I feel that this multiversal being shit is irrelevent...




Originally posted by Mr Master
That's inconsequential.

The fact is, it's clearly stated to be his ONLY weakness. It's clearly stated that a weapon of unimaginable power is his weakness...




Originally posted by Mr Master


LT and Reed never battled.

And that move Reed pulled off with his Canon would have never worked had he shot LT directly with it.


Reed used the LT's and the Cosmic's own power against them, while they were concentrating their powers into a single point, Reed shot his Canon into the concentration of power, this intern shot the Cosmic's and LT's powers back at them ultimately blowing them into other Universes.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9383/reedsuper4hl5.th.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9347/reedsuper5le6.th.jpg

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1729/reedsuper6iq6.th.jpg


Not exactly a win for Reed. I know what happened... but he still lost to something that Reed had created...

Except, Michael has the power of Creation...and Lucifer the power of Will and so can shape that creation.

Two parts of a whole, I guess.



That's the thing I'm not totally cool with.

The Infinity Gauntlet, even at its best showings, couldn't destroy the multiverse and remake it in an instant...

It's entirely possible a person with enough controla nd time with it could pull off the feat but while the IG was massively powerful, it never started to collapse the multiverse, let alone erase and recreate it in a matter of seconds.

So, say someone with the IG confronted Abraxas.

What are they gonna do?

Now, of course, it is possible to say he could do nothing to them as well...but it's just something I'm puzzling over.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Except, Michael has the power of Creation...and Lucifer the power of Will and so can shape that creation.

Two parts of a whole, I guess.



That's the thing I'm not totally cool with.

The Infinity Gauntlet, even at its best showings, couldn't destroy the multiverse and remake it in an instant...

It's entirely possible a person with enough controla nd time with it could pull off the feat but while the IG was massively powerful, it never started to collapse the multiverse, let alone erase and recreate it in a matter of seconds.

So, say someone with the IG confronted Abraxas.

What are they gonna do?

Now, of course, it is possible to say he could do nothing to them as well...but it's just something I'm puzzling over.

Of course you do realize this is my argument to why the UN is superior to the IG.

Well...I guess it depends on what you want to do with the power.

You want everything dead, you can use the Ultimate Nullifier.

However, the Infinity Gauntlet grants you things like omnipotence or omniscience.

You give Bozo A the Nullifier and Bozo B the IG and Bozo B suddenly can percieve and direct everything in existence.. Bozo A, however, could have the Nullifier stolen from him by any schmuck because all it gives you is the life or death of the multiverse in your hands. No special powers or senses.

I'd rather have both, but if I had to choose, I'd take the IG. No one is gonna take it from you...well, if you're fit that is. Otherwise LT takes it and screwed you are.

Originally posted by bigbran
Nope, just saying that the scans from Hotu come from the threatening part, and the Death scan, the others are taken from different comics...

Nope, it's more than just that.


Originally posted by bigbran
Of course...





Originally posted by bigbran
Wouldn't that mean that there is only one Adam Warlock in the multiverse then?

What does this mean?


Originally posted by bigbran
Also, based on your logic, every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse?
So, when exactly is anything universal?

Actually based on YOUR interpretation of my logic,

"every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse"


I ... never said that.

When it's obvious like it always is.

Everyone knows I say 'sometimes' the term "Universe" can mean "Multiverse"

It doesn't happen often at all, but it does.

In the Entropy case involving Genis, I believe you've seen the scans, the term "Universe" was used over and over and yet it was the Multiverse all along.

Sometimes it's just the structure of the story that gives us our answers, like in the Abraxas case, it never mentioned Multi-Eternity concerning it's Re-Creation, it never stated Reed remade the "Multiverse" iether ... but we know it did.

(the bio terms it "the Universe"

Originally posted by bigbran
Using your logic...
Does this look like the multiverse to you?

Certainly doesn't to me...

I never said Thanos battled the Multiverse, you're saying that by showing me that scan.

The REASON Thanos absorbed the Multiverse is to get rid of all the other REAL even remotely possible threats, like Abstracts and Cosmics of other Realities in the Multiverse.

Thanos ONLY battled the 616 Universe and LT.

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm lazy... but...

First paragraph on the side, where his power levels are shown...

I thought you had something there for a second, you thought I hadn't read LT's full bio?

Shame on you. pfft

But seriously here's a close up of what you're pointing at,

This is interesting and I think I got something.


"Thanos destroyed all that existed" "Restored Reality"

This right here can be alluding to it being a Multiverse.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7923/12261459sq5.th.jpg
(exerpt from the 2006 Handbook Bio LT)

Then we get, "the recreated Universe lacked the terminal flaw"

Since every Universe was re-created it makes sense that the most important Universe was recreated also withOUT the "Flaw" that would have spread and ended the Multiverse, or it can directly mean "the Universe" as in the Marvel Multiverse (I have my reasons in the NEXT Post)

Hence:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7707/t2tj9gj3.th.jpg

"For in the absence of Life there can be no Death"

He was definitely talking about the Multiverse here, because Death profits from one Universe dying, so it couldn't be that: (perhaps it's not the same Death OUTSIDE the Multiverse, things are different OUTSIDE the Multiverse, I have scans from the New Universe, Classic Ultraverse, Rune, Dr Who)

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5489/kpz4.th.jpg


"The Eons-Old Stalemate between Eternity and ME has ENDED.
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/903/61183432fs2.th.jpg
By MY MACHINATIONS, the UNIVERSE shall be MINE"




Continues in the next post ....

Look at Abraxas' bio in the 2006 Handbook:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1022/abbiodn1.th.jpg

Reed Nullified "The Universe" itself, "The Universe" restored itself to it's previous normality, with Abraxas no where to be found"

Now you KNOW Reed Re-Created the Multiverse, NO mention of it, no mention of the word "Multiverse" at all. And the whole freaking story dealt with the Multiverse collapsing, no mention of the other Universes that were damaged, nothing.

"The Universe" ... can mean, The Multiverse

Originally posted by bigbran
To get to those other balls though, they would have to pass through the place where there is no time or space...

Not exactly,

Although it appears that way visually in the Cosmic Vortex, it is not so when traveling from one Universe to another.

Warlock was given that special opportunity to enter the Cosmic Vortex through a special Portal made by Eternity/Infinity.

But ALL Universes are as close


When the Living Laser went through the Watcher's "Inter-dimensional Portal" Quasar went after him looking for his counter-parts that had Diverged in different Universes,

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3516/portalrf1.th.jpg

Quasar was flying from Universe to Universe through Portals set up by Watchers from different Universes literally as if they were just a set of rooms apart.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9974/quasar3017dk1.th.jpg


So you see depending on your method of Travel, you can fly from one Universe to another WITHOUT needing to experience the Cosmic Vortex, WITHOUT needing to touch "Beyond Space & Time" ...


When the Chaos Wave was collapsing the Multiverse, and beyond, it was doing it by breaking down the "BRANES" (Dimensional Walls between Universes)\

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/305/b6mj8.th.jpg

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing devastation to BRANES all along the Sidereal String"



Meggan entered this place where the "Branes" (the Walls between Universes) are.

you can easily see how Universes transition from one to another, it looks nearly the same as the Universe itself:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4538/m4fy1.th.jpg


This is the track Thanos or any other individual would take to Collapse the Multiverse, not the Cosmic Vortex.

The Cosmic Vortex is only the area "Beyond Space & Time" ... The "Branes" are what truly separate Universes, and it's as easy as breaking down a wall to get from one to the other. (Or you can use a Portal like most, like Quasar)

Originally posted by bigbran
Thanos had said he had destroyed all time and space in the universe (or multiverse to you)... how exactly would he do this, without destroying Warlock?

If Warlock had the power, he could have destroyed the entire multiverse...

I addressed this right above.

Originally posted by bigbran
Still though, this is one of the examples why I feel that this multiversal being shit is irrelevent...

I could care less about the Multiversal title.

My contention is that Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

Thanos's consciousness expanded to the Omniverse he said.


"I was everything bonded to Omni-Reality"

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3937/marveltheend5kebbin04pb6.th.jpg



"My Awareness continued to expand beyond the material and the Abstract"

"Into Realms I never suspected even existed"

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7656/marveltheend5kebbin05gn9.th.jpg

If this is ONE Universe I'm wondering, HOW is that possible?

HOW can Thanos perceive "Realms he NEVER knew existed?"

When he was the Actual Entire Universe before, Twice?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4971/godhoodyn7.th.jpg

"Thanos has now USURPED Eternity's rightful position as the CENTER of ALL REALITY"




Thanos with the Cosmic Containment Unit become a Universe:

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8240/ccuni1qf3.th.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2097/ccuni2oe1.th.jpg



Originally posted by bigbran
It's clearly stated that a weapon of unimaginable power is his weakness...

Exactly,

that "Weapon of Unimaginable Power" being the UN.



Originally posted by bigbran
I know what happened... but he still lost to something that Reed had created...

If you say so.

Just want to say Mr. M...I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you on that IG > Abraxas. I just am curious as to how Abraxas vs. IG Wielder would turn out based on what we've seen.

Don't hurt me.

I'll answer this part, since it isn't needed to continue the same debate in two different threads...

Originally posted by Mr Master
What does this mean? Well... "Adam Warlock, you have always been part of this universe, but inexplicibly apart from it."

Adam Warlock is outside the loop of Chaos and Order.

What you said, would mean that Adam Warlock would be apart from the entire multiverse too, and there would only be one Warlock in the multiverse...


Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said Thanos battled the Multiverse, you're saying that by showing me that scan.

The REASON Thanos absorbed the Multiverse is to get rid of all the other REAL even remotely possible threats, like Abstracts and Cosmics of other Realities in the Multiverse.

Thanos ONLY battled the 616 Universe and LT. But, he said "THE" universe, the exact same way as he was referring to it the whole story.
You said, show me "a" universe being used, and I showed you "This", and "the" universe rallying against him.

He says he absorbed "the" universe... which you say could mean the multiverse...
He says "the" universe is rallying against him... which you say is simply a universe...
Confusing...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Just want to say Mr. M...I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you on that IG > Abraxas. I just am curious as to how Abraxas vs. IG Wielder would turn out based on what we've seen.

Don't hurt me. If people say the IG can beat Abraxas, then they also think that it can erase the multiverse.
Which it hasn't...
And if they say the IG can beat him, then they also are ignoring the multiverse... or they don't think you actually have to erase the multiverse...

It actually seems like a trap.


Back on topic... Lucifer beats Abraxas...