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no prep no rest time
list may be out of order

1.Dr strange/dormammu/mephisto
2.odin/king thor/destroyer
3.chaos/order/in-betweener
4.fp tyrant/ego lp/stranger
5.12 celestails
6.fp galactus/abaraxs/Phoenix
7.eternity/infinity.death
8.thanos w/ig/ jim jaspers/franklin richards
9.living tribunal w/hotu/ pret con molecule man

lord rock is that you?

Originally posted by qqqqqqq
lord rock is that you?

i could be if you want

He Would stop at The LT without the heart. If you had put in multieternity and Multi infinity and Multideath, he would stop there as well. he could barely kill multideath and had used up much of his power to do so. The three of them would over whelm him. Hell the UN is more powerful than the Classic beyonder.

Not entirely true about UN is more powerful then Beyonder but agreed he goes down against LT

Originally posted by lordboo
no prep no rest time
list may be out of order

1.Dr strange/dormammu/mephisto
2.odin/king thor/destroyer
3.chaos/order/in-betweener
4.fp tyrant/ego lp/stranger
5.12 celestails
6.fp galactus/abaraxs/Phoenix
7.eternity/infinity.death
8.thanos w/ig/ jim jaspers/franklin richards
9.living tribunal w/hotu/ pret con molecule man

1.Dr strange/dormammu/mephisto=
2.odin/king thor/destroyer=
3.chaos/order/in-betweener=
4.fp tyrant/ego lp/stranger=
5.12 celestails=They cannot die
6.fp galactus/abaraxs/Phoenix=Phoenix is immortal
7.eternity/infinity.death=Death is Death
8.thanos w/ig/ jim jaspers/franklin richards=Calling James Starlin
9.living tribunal w/hotu/ pret con molecule man=LT

Living Tribunal < PR Molecule Man < PR Beyonder

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Living Tribunal < PR Molecule Man < PR Beyonder

NOT. are you insane. THe LT is superior to both of those guys. The LT is over the marvel OMNIVERSE. at the time, the beyonder was around, The LT was only over the multiverse. Now we know there are infinite multiverses. LT is far more powerful than molecule man pr and PR beyonder.

He clears this gauntlet...

9 would be interesting.

He doesn't clear this gauntlet
1. Destroyes them
2. Destroyes them
3. Smacks them
4. Smacks them
5. As he did in secret wars II they goes down
6. Not a chance in hell, abraxas could MAYBE be a problem considerering how it took the UN to remove him but Pre-retcon is above UN so ...
7. Not a Chance
8. Not a Chance
9. They takes him, LT alone is after my openion equal to MM and Pre-retcon Beyonder but give LT the HOTU and add those abilities to his own the takes on Pre retcon Beyonder no doubt in my mind.

Makes it to 9 efforlessly and then loses.

Goes down for sure

Originally posted by lordboo
no prep no rest time
list may be out of order

1.Dr strange/dormammu/mephisto
2.odin/king thor/destroyer
3.chaos/order/in-betweener
4.fp tyrant/ego lp/stranger
5.12 celestails
6.fp galactus/abaraxs/Phoenix
7.eternity/infinity.death
8.thanos w/ig/ jim jaspers/franklin richards
9.living tribunal w/hotu/ pret con molecule man Beyonder could defeat #'s 1-8, all at once, with the wave of his hand.



But he is stoped at #9.

Actually Jaspers has the potential to surpass the Beyonder being a Multiversal threat (the Beyonder had troubles erasing multideath).

Originally posted by Bentley
Actually Jaspers has the potential to surpass the Beyonder being a Multiversal threat (the Beyonder had troubles erasing multideath). Beyonder didn't have any trouble with that at all.

Except he did. He stated that his powers were seriously drained afterwards.

Originally posted by Bentley
Except he did. He stated that his powers were seriously drained afterwards. He stated it took alot of his power, but even so he was still more powerful than every cosmic being in that room with him combined, (which included the likes of LT, Eternity, and the rest of the hierarchy).


Beyonder then preceded to recreate Multi-Death, (and we all know it is harder, and requires more power to create then it does to destroy).

That feat still wouldn't put him strictly over a well grown Jaspers nor an omniversal LT.

Originally posted by Bentley
That feat still wouldn't put him strictly over a well grown Jaspers nor an omniversal LT. Ok..


Once again, Beyonder was everything outside of the 616 Multiverse.

The space occupied by the Omniverse today, was once Beyonder's real-estate.



And Jaspers only had the potential to be an Omniversal threat, who knows how long it would take for him to reach this potential? srug




Again,

Beyonder defeats every team, (with the exception of team #9), easily.

Where is it stated that he is everything outside the 616? I thought it was implied that he came from the outside and thats that. I agree, there is no way to know about Jaspers and since he is not stated as full powered I'm going to assume "no".

Originally posted by Bentley
Where is it stated that he is everything outside the 616? I thought it was implied that he came from the outside and thats that. Nope.

Beyonder was everything beyond the 616 Multiverse, he was everything the Omniverse is today, (with the exception of Multverse 616):
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg


Originally posted by Bentley
I agree, there is no way to know about Jaspers and since he is not stated as full powered I'm going to assume "no".

Since this comes from the beyonder himself it could be that his realm is only a megaverse, for him it would be "everything else".

Originally posted by Bentley
Since this comes from the beyonder himself it could be that his realm is only a megaverse, for him it would be "everything else". Beyonder says he is everything Beyond.


The word "everything" implies all that there is.



So Beyonder was all there was outside of the 616 Multiverse, (which is the Omniverse of today).

Yep, the problem is that everything implies everything to the Beyonder, he knows nothing else, so its everything to him. Self-statements suck for this kind of thing, if we go by that "Hulk is the strongest one there is".

Originally posted by Bentley
Yep, the problem is that everything implies everything to the Beyonder, he knows nothing else, so its everything to him. That's what you don't get...


Without Beyonder, there is "nothing else".


Pre-retcon Beyonder = The sum of everything Beyond the 616 Multiverse, which again is the Omniverse of today.



That much is quite unarguable IMO.

Says the Beyonder. If a guy is everything outside the earth, you erase it and there aren't stars, space or anything of the sort, it still doesn't ban the possibility of other dimensions. Yet, for a classic physician he would be "everything".

He could be a megaverse, not necessarily the omniverse. This is only the Beyonder stating things, he is limited, thus, not trustable.

Originally posted by Bentley
Says the Beyonder. If a guy is everything outside the earth, you erase it and there aren't stars, space or anything of the sort, it still doesn't ban the possibility of other dimensions. Yet, for a classic physician he would be "everything".

He could be a megaverse, not necessarily the omniverse. This is only the Beyonder stating things, he is limited, thus, not trustable.

"Not trustable"?


I didn't see anyone disagreeing with him, or proving that fact wrong.

Did you?



Even Molecule Man knew it was true..

Originally posted by Galan007
Ok..


Once again, Beyonder was everything outside of the 616 Multiverse.

The space occupied by the Omniverse today, was once Beyonder's real-estate.



And Jaspers only had the potential to be an Omniversal threat, who knows how long it would take for him to reach this potential? srug




Again,

Beyonder defeats every team, (with the exception of team #9), easily.

How can you say that beyonder was everything outside of marvel and that that is the omniverse? What if the omniverse always was? It would seem that it was and that they had eluded to it before. There was a specific number to the beyonder's power, even if he was the actual space of everything outside the 616, that still doesn't make him as powerful as the Omniverse that actually exist today. He just was that space. The omniverse today is filled with things like the heart of the universe and such, the beyonder is NOT equal at all to today's omniverse.

@Galan: An omniscent narrator would be a fine proof to back such claims, maybe some cosmics doing the talking, the Beyonder talking about himself its biased. Megaversal is still quite high in the chain, thats what the brothers were.

Originally posted by Galan007


"Not trustable"?


I didn't see anyone disagreeing with him, or proving that fact wrong.

Did you?



Even Molecule Man knew it was true..

They only knew what they knew. They didn't know about The DCU either, but that doesn't make it not exist. Unless everyone thinks the beyonder was the actual comics multiverse, which is what marvel was trying to imply. But the beyonder's own statements are NOT permissible. The panels tell us that he is millions of times more powerful than the Multiverse. The actual omniverse is infinitely more times powerful than one mulitiverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How can you say that beyonder was everything outside of marvel and that that is the omniverse? What if the omniverse always was? It would seem that it was and that they had eluded to it before. There was a specific number to the beyonder's power, even if he was the actual space of everything outside the 616, that still doesn't make him as powerful as the Omniverse that actually exist today. He just was that space. The omniverse today is filled with things like the heart of the universe and such, the beyonder is NOT equal at all to today's omniverse. I never commented on what Beyonder had power over, I simply stated that fact that he was everything beyond the 616 Multiverse. doped

Originally posted by Bentley
Says the Beyonder. If a guy is everything outside the earth, you erase it and there aren't stars, space or anything of the sort, it still doesn't ban the possibility of other dimensions. Yet, for a classic physician he would be "everything".
Beyonder was everything outside the Multiverse. Not everything outside the Earth.

It was meant to be an example. The word of the Beyonder is not reliable on this, Nvr is saying that too.

Originally posted by Galan007
I never commented on what Beyonder had power over, I simply stated that fact that he was everything beyond the 616 Multiverse. doped

Well the beyonder was kinda simple, and not at all omnicient. SO I wont' be taking his word for it that he was everything outside of the multiverse. He didn't even know what the 616 was till he got there. He certainly was not a for real Omnipotent being in the true sense. He had power and was very limited. Even mxy commented on this very same kind of thing. He says, you dont' muck with creation, or you'll mess it up and wont' have anything to play with. The beyonder was so dumb, that he killed multideath not knowing what he was doing. SO I certainly wont' take his word for it that he actually was everything outside of the 616 multiverse.

Originally posted by Bentley
@Galan: An omniscent narrator would be a fine proof to back such claims, maybe some cosmics doing the talking, the Beyonder talking about himself its biased. Megaversal is still quite high in the chain, thats what the brothers were. Beyonder being everything beyond was NEVER disproved, so I don't know where your "facts" are coming from.



And FYI,

The pre-retcon Brothers were EVERYTHING in their respective companies (Marvel/DC)...


After they were retconned, the Brothers were demoted to Megaversal status.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The beyonder was so dumb, that he killed multideath not knowing what he was doing. SO I certainly wont' take his word for it that he actually was everything outside of the 616 multiverse. What? You ever read SW II?


Beyonder knew exactly what killing Death would do, that's why he did it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder being everything beyond was NEVER disproved, so I don't know where your "facts" are coming from.



And FYI,

The pre-retcon Brothers were EVERYTHING in their respective companies (Marvel/DC)...


After they were retconned, the Brothers were demoted to Megaversal status.
The brothers were not Demoted. IT takes both companies to do this sense they were owned by both companies. And the beyonder was never disproved because he actually was disproved. He was retconned. DISPROVED.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder being everything beyond was NEVER disproved, so I don't know where your "facts" are coming from.



And FYI,

The pre-retcon Brothers were EVERYTHING in their respective companies (Marvel/DC)...


After they were retconned, the Brothers were demoted to Megaversal status.


I don't need to prove anything, I'm stating that what you show is not a conclusive proof. It could be what you say, it could be what I say. I'm argue that you take non-facts as facts.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And the beyonder was never disproved because he actually was disproved. He was retconned. DISPROVED. A retcon means nothing here friend,

This is pre-retcon Beyonder whom is being debated.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The brothers were not Demoted. IT takes both companies to do this sense they were owned by both companies. And the beyonder was never disproved because he actually was disproved. He was retconned. DISPROVED.
The Brothers were demoted in Marvel Continuity. In DC continuity they are still omniversal.

Originally posted by Galan007
A retcon means nothing here friend,

This is pre-retcon Beyonder whom is being debated.
ANd to such, he still was never proven to actually be everything outside the multiverse. We only have his words to back his claims. THanks. We already know that words from the person talking about themself is NOT enough. Also, the beyonder was dumb. He acted like a big kid. He ****ed up when he killed death and made life worthless. He really wasn't all that smart. He was a tard.

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't need to prove anything, I'm stating that what you show is not a conclusive proof. It could be what you say, it could be what I say. I'm argue that you take non-facts as facts.

Galan seriously, what you state is not a proof, bring any decent debater and he will agree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ANd to such, he still was never proven to actually be everything outside the multiverse. We only have his words to back his claims. THanks. We already know that words from the person talking about themself is NOT enough. Ok, so I won't take Ultimator's word for what he was either...

Thanks, I'll remember this the next time you bring up what a character says about themselves.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, the beyonder was dumb. He acted like a big kid. He ****ed up when he killed death and made life worthless. He really wasn't all that smart. He was a tard. Beyonder knew exactly what killing Death would do..... That's why he did it.

So how does that make him "dumb"?

Originally posted by Galan007
Ok, so I won't take Ultimator's word for what he was either...

Thanks, I'll remember this the next time you bring up what a character says about themselves.

Beyonder knew exactly what killing Death would do..... That's why he did it.

So how does that make him "dumb"?

He was too dumb to know that he messed with the what makes life worth living. He was dumb. He did act like a big kid. ANd as for the Ultimator thing, We also have the fact that the Ultimator was able to pwn 5th dimensional beings with great EASE. something That No one in comics has EVER been shown doing. So we know that he was Severly powerful. I also dont' know if the Ultimator was everything, only he said it, and i have found out that the dimensions in DC go upwards of a hundred, so we know the Ultimator probably wasn't everything, only everything up until the tenth dimension.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and i have found out that the dimensions in DC go upwards of a hundred Darkseid said there was 28 known dimensions, but that was a little while ago.

Originally posted by Galan007
Darkseid said there was 28 known dimensions, but that was a little while ago.

There are more. Check out Teen Titans number 42- or 43. The PS and some other mystichs are in dimension 56 or something like that. and they comment on more dimensions. I can't member off top of my head and i'm too lazy to go reread it lol.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There are more. Check out Teen Titans number 42- or 43. The PS and some other mystichs are in dimension 56 or something like that. and they comment on more dimensions. I can't member off top of my head and i'm too lazy to go reread it lol. Cool, I don't follow TT at all, so I'll look up those issues.

And I just realized that Darkseid only said that Metron had studied 28 of the known dimensions..

He didn't say that's all there was.

Now is time to argue how Mad Jim Jaspers merged with the Fury (his current incarnation), will in fact not go down easily against the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Bentley
@Galan: An omniscent narrator would be a fine proof to back such claims, maybe some cosmics doing the talking, the Beyonder talking about himself its biased.

the beyonder was supposed to be above all other cosmics in terms of omnipotence and omniscience at the time, so the beyonder talking about himself would be more credible than the cosmics talking about him. in example albert einstein claiming that he could prove the theory of relativity would be more credible than a 3 year old child claiming that he could not.

Originally posted by Bentley
Megaversal is still quite high in the chain, thats what the brothers were.

megaversal is what the brothers are now, what they used to be is the omniverse of the respective marvel and dc comics.

he may have trouble with #9 but pre-retcon beyonder clears this gauntlet.

can someone tell me who is mutideath?

Can someone explain to me how LT w/HOTU has any more influence than Thanos does? HOTU is HOTU, no more no less unless stated otherwise. Thanos, at most- had influence over all of the Marvel Multi-verse. Death and Atleza's realm was out of his reach, we know that. Pre-retcon MM tryed to defeat beyonder, but he could only gather the free energy in a single multi-verse. He stated as well as Beyonder, is millions of times more powerful than the multiverse.

Pre-ret beyonder wins.

Originally posted by Ethereal
Can someone explain to me how LT w/HOTU has any more influence than Thanos does? HOTU is HOTU, no more no less unless stated otherwise. srug



All I can think is that maybe LT could control THOTI's energies to a greater degree then Thanos could.


Sort of like Nebula /w/ IG v.s. Warlock /w/ IG....


Warlock would win every single time.


Why?

Because he is able to comprehend/control the IG's forces to a much greater degree.



Of course what I have said concerning THOTI cannot be validated, since Thanos is the only one to have ever held it..... But it makes perfect sense.

Gets his shit kicked at 9.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There are more. Check out Teen Titans number 42- or 43. The PS and some other mystichs are in dimension 56 or something like that. and they comment on more dimensions. I think this is what you're talking about.


This demon was in the 52nd Dimension:
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9072/tt1es2.th.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
I think this is what you're talking about.


This demon was in the 52nd Dimension:
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9072/tt1es2.th.jpg

Galan, how does Beyonder compare to LT now

Originally posted by guy222
Galan, how does Beyonder compare to LT now IMO,

Pre-retcon Beyonder > LT of nowadays.

Originally posted by Galan007
IMO,

Pre-retcon Beyonder > LT of nowadays.

Sounds fair. Cool Amazo thread

Originally posted by guy222
Sounds fair. Cool Amazo thread 313

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ANd to such, he still was never proven to actually be everything outside the multiverse. We only have his words to back his claims. THanks. We already know that words from the person talking about themself is NOT enough. Also, the beyonder was dumb. He acted like a big kid. He ****ed up when he killed death and made life worthless. He really wasn't all that smart. He was a tard.

It really doesn't matter because in 84 beyonders realm was much bigger then the 616 multiverse.

I believe the words "Oure own universe a drop in the ocean" was the words used. He will still be beyond everything in 84 and he had the ability to erase death and then bring death back into the universe with his powers beyonder himself also said that he restrained himself and didn't use all his powers so he gets to nine but stoppes.