Would you still Worship Christ if....

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Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

Alliance
People do (and always have) worshipped humans.

marcu
Well, I supppose concrete proof is concrete proof. I would not be able to argue it then anymore. I would not worship something that is proving to be other than what I have thought all along. I don't think it would change me much as a person though...I'd still be my loveable self. *bats eyelashes*

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
Well, I supppose concrete proof is concrete proof. I would not be able to argue it then anymore. I would not worship something that is proving to be other than what I have thought all along. I don't think it would change me much as a person though...I'd still be my loveable self. *bats eyelashes*



That is thee most honest answer I have ever heard a Christian say on KMC period....


thumb up

Lord Urizen
My point was that I think many Christians would abandon thier figure Christ if he was proven to be nothing more than human. Which is sad..

He was a great person. He should not be forgotten simply because he was human.


As a Buddhist, I admire Buddha greatly, regardless of the fact that he is only human.

Robtard
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

If you take away that Christ was not God made flesh than you completely obliterate Christianity in a domino like effect. If Christ wasn't God than his sacrifice didn't save us all of our sins, if Christ wasn't God then believing in him doesn't grant you eternal life in heaven and so on and so forth. Christianity relies on Christ being divine, no way around it, it simply cannot exist without that concept.

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My point was that I think many Christians would abandon thier figure Christ if he was proven to be nothing more than human. Which is sad..

He was a great person. He should not be forgotten simply because he was human.


As a Buddhist, I admire Buddha greatly, regardless of the fact that he is only human.

I would still be grateful and thankful for the things that He and the bible have taught me though. If ever concrete proof showed him to be a regular guy, I'd still admire him and thank my lucky stars that I have gained certain things from knowing him.

I don't know what kind of person I would be today without his teachings.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


^ That's every Muslim's wet-dream: proof that 'Isa bin Mariam' lacks divinity.

To answer the thread, I would either become either a Jew or a Muslim, because they also worship the God of Abraham. Christianity would be rendered false, so I would have to reevaluate my view of God.

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That is thee most honest answer I have ever heard a Christian say on KMC period....


thumb up

Somehow that is painfully sad, no? sad

*sighs*

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
^ That's every Muslim's wet-dream: proof that 'Isa bin Mariam' lacks divinity.


Do thier wet dreams secrete semen or blood ? I wondor...





Originally posted by Quiero Mota
To answer the thread, I would either become either a Jew or a Muslim, because they also worship the God of Abraham. Christianity would be rendered false, so I would have to reevaluate my view of God.





So you would simply forget about Jesus despite his teachings and contribution to the world ?

Thundar
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

If Christ was a liar I wouldn't follow him, nor would I call him my friend. He's proved to me he isn't one though, so even if I died being separated from him - I'd still die being content knowing that Love exists, and that Love will one day remove Satan and all evil from existence.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

Personally this wouldn't really change my opinion of Jesus.

What he accomplished was still incredibly impressive.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Robtard
If you take away that Christ was not God made flesh than you completely obliterate Christianity in a domino like effect. If Christ wasn't God than his sacrifice didn't save us all of our sins, if Christ wasn't God then believing in him doesn't grant you eternal life in heaven and so on and so forth. Christianity relies on Christ being divine, no way around it, it simply cannot exist without that concept.


So while Christianity depends on an unproven possibility, Buddhism depends on human wisdom and experience itself...


Now I remember why I am Buddhist, thanks. smile

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Thundar
If Christ was a liar I wouldn't follow him, nor would I call him my friend. He's proved to me he isn't one though, so even if I died being separated from him - I'd still die being content knowing that Love exists, and that Love will one day remove Satan and all evil from existence.


If Christ was proven to be human, what would still convince you that Satan exists ?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
If Christ was a liar I wouldn't follow him, nor would I call him my friend. He's proved to me he isn't one though, so even if I died being separated from him - I'd still die being content knowing that Love exists, and that Love will one day remove Satan and all evil from existence.

That is just scary. eek!

Replace Christ with Allah and it still works.

TRH
lol

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do thier wet dreams secrete semen or blood ? I wondor...


no expression + What the f**k? *no comment*

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So you would simply forget about Jesus despite his teachings and contribution to the world ?

Excuse me? Where in that post did I say "forget about Jesus"?

King Nothing
Well...this is one great thread that makes me think. I would still love and respect Jesus but not like a holy worship thing. It would be more of how people respect Martin Luther King Jr. If Jesus didn't have the powers and was just a normal human, he would be no different from us...we are all children of God.

Nellinator
I'd probably become Jewish again.

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is just scary. eek!

Replace Christ with Allah and it still works.

How so? Scary that I would give my life for the sake of Love, despite not receiving any benefit for it? My goal in this life is to bring glory to God, not to myself - and the thing I most desire is to have a relationship with him. God gave up everything for all of us, so I love him enough to give up my greatest desire in life to see him happy. Still, despite my death, I would still have a sense of satisfaction knowing that God would know how truly much I loved him, as well as knowing that God himself would be able to share his love with others for eternity.

This is why yours and Urizen's version of Love will never be able exist beyond death. Your love is limited, and you know it -- as you both are inherently afraid of death and or hell and the suffering that comes along with it. When I die, my Love will continue. When you die - your Love will die with you.

Alliance
You have no basis to make those claims. And who cares?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Thundar
This is why yours and Urizen's version of Love will never be able exist beyond death. Your love is limited, and you know it -- as you both are inherently afraid of death and or hell and the suffering that comes along with it. When I die, my Love will continue. When you die - your Love will die with you.


1) This is simply your beleif, not not fact.


2) How do you know my Love is limitted? My love is not conditional, unlike your own and unlike your deity's is.


3) I may fear Death to a degree, but I do not fear Hell. Hell does not exist.


4) When you die, you will be reborn as will I. There is no difference between you and myself, other than that you devote yourself wholeheartedly and closed mindedly to a delusion.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
no expression + What the f**k? *no comment*


Islam sucks...that simple.





Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Excuse me? Where in that post did I say "forget about Jesus"?



You stated you would no longer worship him and convert to Judaism or Islam..you really are afraid of Hell, aren't you ? erm


Denouncing Christianity is forgetting Jesus, and betraying him as well.


If I worshipped Christ, or Loved him the way you all claim too, I would not disown him or stop loving him just because he was human. Does him being human make him less worthy or your adoration, somehow ?


That's fkn pathetic....your love must be conditional then.



If I truly loved Christ, I'd stick by him and his word 100%, no matter what. And I'm not even fkn Christian....

Atlantis001

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Islam sucks...that simple.


Yeah I know....you're Islamaphobic.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You stated you would no longer worship him and convert to Judaism or Islam..you really are afraid of Hell, aren't you ? erm


Denouncing Christianity is forgetting Jesus, and betraying him as well.


If I worshipped Christ, or Loved him the way you all claim too, I would not disown him or stop loving him just because he was human. Does him being human make him less worthy or your adoration, somehow ?


That's fkn pathetic....your love must be conditional then.



If I truly loved Christ, I'd stick by him and his word 100%, no matter what. And I'm not even fkn Christian....

Nice points, but if it was proven that Jesus lacked divinty, then there's really no point in worshipping him, is there?? That would be a textbook example of denial.

I stand correct: I would become a Muslim if that were the case. Because like Christianity, Islam also emphasizes the Afterlife, I've read the Koran and liked it, and I admire the religion.

And also, you seem to think that I would cast Jesus and his teachings aside; that's not true. In Islam, he's God's second greatest prophet. The Koran speaks very highly of him, and he's mentioned by name in it 93 times, which is more than he is mentioned by name in the entire New Testament.

Tangible God
Even if it was proven he was just a man, we humans would still say he was sent by God, or told by God to lead humanity and that time just twisted the Son of God thing.

He'd still be worshiped as a savior of some sort.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?
I would probably deny said proof. If not, I would ask for forgiveness for deifying a human and then I might just kill myself.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

This hypothetical question has no intrinsic value so why ask it? There is not now nor will there ever be any proof--concrete or theoretical--that Jesus is anything but divine. Yes, Jesus is God. Sorry, but there is just no other way for me to respond to this inane scenario.

Oh, I almost forgot: Jesus loves you too.

marcu
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This hypothetical question has no intrinsic value so why ask it? There is not now nor will there ever be any proof--concrete or theoretical--that Jesus is anything but divine. Yes, Jesus is God. Sorry, but there is just no other way for me to respond to this inane scenario.

Oh, I almost forgot: Jesus loves you too.

JIA...it is a hypothetical question. You must view it that way. I believe and you believe that there is a God. But if one comes into this forum and chooses to answer someones post, they must take the post for what it is...in this case hypothetical. Really think on this one JIA. It's a good question..even for believers of God.

Thundar
Originally posted by marcu
JIA...it is a hypothetical question. You must view it that way. I believe and you believe that there is a God. But if one comes into this forum and chooses to answer someones post, they must take the post for what it is...in this case hypothetical. Really think on this one JIA. It's a good question..even for believers of God.

Unfortunately I don't concur Marcu, it's really nothing more than a vieled attempt(pathetic one at that) to get unbelievers and believers to blapheme and deny the Holy Spirit. It falls right up there in patheticness with the whole James Cameron crappy stunt.

I can only think that since such pathetic juvenile drivel has had little effect on true believers over the years, the only last ditch(and equally pathetic) effort used by Satan to undermine Christ will be to pretend that he is Christ. Funnily enough, the last laugh will be God's as everything that's going on right now - has already been foretold by God himself within the scriptures. Or as He(God) himself has put it --

Isaiah 48:3
Things of the past I foretold long ago, they went forth from my mouth, I let you hear of them; then suddenly I took action and they came to be.

marcu
Thundar, I didn't view the original question as an "attempt" to get believers and non-believers to deny the Holy Spirit. If you read the original post...it was clearly stated that it was the poster didn't know what proof that would actually be and "let's just say" as in it being hypothetical. Christians who are strong in their faith should have no trouble interacting and answering such a question. The original poster could have worded that much differently and THEN I could see reason to get up in arms about it...but that was not the case.

I love God. I believe in Him with my whole heart. I KNOW that HE is there and I will see Him one day. But, what good does it do to ignore all topics here and the non-believers if we can't let go for a second and answer them and show we are real people too?

Shakyamunison
marcu the difference between you and Thundar is that you assume the positive about people, and that is why I like you. However, Thundar always assumes the worst from people, and he then gets the worse.

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
marcu the difference between you and Thundar is that you assume the positive about people, and that is why I like you. However, Thundar always assumes the worst from people, and he then gets the worse.

Not true at all. I see good in many things. But I still know evil when I see it, and I will not conform to it just because a few people don't like me.

marcu
I don't know anything about JIA or Thundar in terms of their upbringing or how they became Christians. I DO know that I am very sensitive to the way Christians interact with non-believers. I had a very bad taste in my mouth for many years over the actions and judgements that the Christians and Churches around me dished out. It took me many years to accept Christ after seeing that stuff. Disrespect for ANY person, regardless of their faith or lack of faith is not acceptable to me at all.

I don't understand why the question could be viewed as so terrible. If one believes in God, and wants to witness/interact with non-believers...then why not view it as hypothetical and answer it? Strange.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
Not true at all. I see good in many things. But I still know evil when I see it, and I will not conform to it just because a few people don't like me.

However, I think you see what you believe to be evil first.

marcu
Originally posted by Thundar
Not true at all. I see good in many things. But I still know evil when I see it, and I will not conform to it just because a few people don't like me.

But Thundar, the question was not for you to denounce God. It was a "what if" question to see how you would react to such an event. You and I both know it will NEVER happen...so why not answer and show some real dialogue? Please explain.

I would not EVER be strung into believing there was no God or that Jesus was just a regular guy who did nice things and not the son of God. A hypothetical question is just that...hypothetical.

Thundar
Originally posted by marcu
But Thundar, the question was not for you to denounce God. It was a "what if" question to see how you would react to such an event. You and I both know it will NEVER happen...so why not answer and show some real dialogue? Please explain.

I would not EVER be strung into believing there was no God or that Jesus was just a regular guy who did nice things and not the son of God. A hypothetical question is just that...hypothetical.

Basically the question being asked was...

"Would you follow the anti-Christ?"

Again it was a stupid vieled question, meant to lead people astray.

That being said --

I've already answered the question, but let me answer again for you. If Christ was found to be a liar, everything he said would be full of lies, and he would have lead millions of people to death with such a doctrine. It would be difficult for me to have much love or respect for anti-Christ who purposefully mislead millions of people for selfish motivations.

On a related note -- I can generally tell when a question is asked with sincerity, or if the motivation behind it is really meant to disparage someone or with evil intent. From my limited experiences interacting with Urizen, it's fairly apparent that his modus operandi is always to disparage Christianity upon opening up topics like these. Just click on his name, and read anyone of his threads and you'll clearly see what I'm talking about.

Shakyamunison

Regret
Originally posted by Thundar
Basically the question being asked was...

"Would you follow the anti-Christ?"

Again it was a stupid vieled question, meant to lead people astray.

That being said --

I've already answered the question, but let me answer again for you. If Christ was found to be a liar, everything he said would be full of lies, and he would have lead millions of people to death with such a doctrine. It would be difficult for me to have much love or respect for anti-Christ who purposefully mislead millions of people for selfish motivations.

On a related note -- I can generally tell when a question is asked with sincerity, or if the motivation behind it is really meant to disparage someone or with evil intent. From my limited experiences interacting with Urizen, it's fairly apparent that his modus operandi is always to disparage Christianity upon opening up topics like these. Just click on his name, and read anyone of his threads and you'll clearly see what I'm talking about. Sorry, but one cannot discern this unless one has judged another already. All the same, it is a harmless hypothetical question regardless of the motives of the author.

And the simple answer for most Christians should be that they would no longer believe as they have concerning Christ but his teachings would still be held in high esteem because they are intrinsically based in humanitarian principle. If Christ is, or is not, who we believe him to be, the value of his teachings is the reason someone should live them, not for some reward for living them. For the value of living them, regardless of the end reward.

I do not believe in existence as a Buddhist does, but much of their teachings are honest and beneficial for all people. I do not believe as many religions do, but almost all religions have some truth that is beneficial for man.

Regardless of our opinion of Urizen, the question is being discussed. If you cannot respond appropriately to the thread there is no point in participating in it. Which is what Marcu has correctly stated.

Robtard
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This hypothetical question has no intrinsic value so why ask it? There is not now nor will there ever be any proof--concrete or theoretical--that Jesus is anything but divine. Yes, Jesus is God. Sorry, but there is just no other way for me to respond to this inane scenario.

Oh, I almost forgot: Jesus loves you too.

Wow, way to dodge the question... key word "Hypothetical", as in "What if" not "When it happens". There is also zero concrete proof that Jesus was devine, it all boils down to faith and faith isn't "concrete proof".

Alfheim
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
^ That's every Muslim's wet-dream: proof that 'Isa bin Mariam' lacks divinity.

To answer the thread, I would either become either a Jew or a Muslim, because they also worship the God of Abraham. Christianity would be rendered false, so I would have to reevaluate my view of God.

So why would you have to be a Jew or Christian there other religons you know? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Thundar

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
Helping people is not= telling people what they want to hear. I answered his question, and stated that I would not have much respect or love for an evil Christ, or an anti-Christ.

I would have compassion for one though as I don't hate anyone nor do I enjoy seeing anyone suffer. I do hate it though when people purposely attempt to mislead and/or misrepresent others -- out of anger and self loathing, or out of a false sense of entitlement, or lust for power, or just for the sake of getting revenge.

Doing these things would all be characteristics of an unloving God, and anyone who says they would greatly respect such a God and still have much love for such a God is demonstrating who it is they really follow.

Then why do some many people think you did not answer the question?

Thundar
Originally posted by Regret
Sorry, but one cannot discern this unless one has judged another already. All the same, it is a harmless hypothetical question regardless of the motives of the author.

And the simple answer for most Christians should be that they would no longer believe as they have concerning Christ but his teachings would still be held in high esteem because they are intrinsically based in humanitarian principle. If Christ is, or is not, who we believe him to be, the value of his teachings is the reason someone should live them, not for some reward for living them. For the value of living them, regardless of the end reward.

I do not believe in existence as a Buddhist does, but much of their teachings are honest and beneficial for all people. I do not believe as many religions do, but almost all religions have some truth that is beneficial for man.

Regardless of our opinion of Urizen, the question is being discussed. If you cannot respond appropriately to the thread there is no point in participating in it. Which is what Marcu has correctly stated.

I agree with you that we shouldn't seek a reward when attempting to do good. But how could one claim that they are still doing good, or the teachings of the person they followed were of a good intent and merit -- if the individual they were following -- had proven to have lied about the foundation of his entire doctrine?

That's another reason why the question was a vieled one. Nothing done with evil intent should be considered of good merit. Love, existing and reigning over evil though - can still overcome this evil and use it for good merit though -- or as the scripture puts it(I'm paraphrasing so please excuse, as I could not find the exact verse)


Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

So the evil that existed in you, myself, or someone else by following such an evil doctrine, could still be overcome by God leading you away from it -- and bringing you to the truth.

I strongly believe that God will have compassion on all those who are lead by such doctrines, and only hold those responsable for leading people astray with them accountable, or as he himself puts it --

Matthew 18:6-7
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

marcu
Originally posted by Thundar
Helping people is not= telling people what they want to hear. I answered his question, and stated that I would not have much respect or love for an evil Christ, or an anti-Christ.

I would have compassion for one though as I don't hate anyone nor do I enjoy seeing anyone suffer. I do hate it though when people purposely attempt to mislead and/or misrepresent others -- out of anger and self loathing, or out of a false sense of entitlement, or lust for power, or just for the sake of getting revenge.

Doing these things would all be characteristics of an unloving God, and anyone who says they would greatly respect such a God and still have much love for such a God is demonstrating who it is they really follow.

Heres the thing Thundar. Coming on to a board like this one, particularily the religion part of the board...I don't think that taking ANY approach other than being yourself as a Child of God works. Throwing out bible verses and such here means next to nothing. The non-believers on here already know the way to be saved (from a Christian stand point). The majority of them have studied the bible, I'm sure. In fact, many of them know the bible better than I do. Throwing out verses to a non-believer helps nothing, in my opinion. It's like ( providing there was such a thing) and Athiest throwing bits and pieces of their "book" to me as a steadfast believer in God. It wouldn't mean anything to me, right? If I am not to be shaken and hold firm to what I believe.

The way I see it, my life stories, my upbrining, my testemony...ME...that is what they can respect for now. Not verses. I know it is the traditional christian thing to do to bring out the bible and start there...but that does not always work. It only frustrates people. Let them get to know you, your history, why you beleive what you do. Talk to them, answer their questions and answer them in a HYPOTHETICAL way. I have learnt little bits and pieces of the people here, and it's very interesting, no?

AND, always remember that EVERYONE is a sinner, christian or not. And your sin is no less or no greater than theirs. God is good Thundar. You and I know that for sure. Pray a little about different ways to reach people. At some point one needs to ask if what they are doing is getting them anywhere and if the answer is no, then look for different ways.

Oh, and regardless of Urizens intent or wording...it still is an opportunity to think and answer...you won't be shaken if you are firm in your belief.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
I'd probably become Jewish again.

This is a loaded statement. How Jackie Malfoy of you.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ?

There is proof anyhow that he did exist and is/was divine. You need to look no further than those who have received the stigmate...wounds of Christ: most notably, St. Francis of Assisi and Padre Pio (who died recently, no less).

But, back to the thread, if hypothetically this were to be case, I would recognize him like the Pope or some other peaceful leader.

Cheers.

Robtard
Originally posted by BobbyD
There is proof anyhow that he did exist and is/was divine. You need to look no further than those who have received the stigmate...wounds of Christ: most notably, St. Francis of Assisi and Padre Pio (who died recently, no less).

But, back to the thread, if hypothetically this were to be case, I would recognize him like the Pope or some other peaceful leader.

Cheers.

There isn't a single shread of concrete proof that Jesus was divine, at best it's all hearsay; it all boils down to faith.

Thundar
Originally posted by marcu
Heres the thing Thundar. Coming on to a board like this one, particularily the religion part of the board...I don't think that taking ANY approach other than being yourself as a Child of God works. Throwing out bible verses and such here means next to nothing. The non-believers on here already know the way to be saved (from a Christian stand point). The majority of them have studied the bible, I'm sure. In fact, many of them know the bible better than I do. Throwing out verses to a non-believer helps nothing, in my opinion. It's like ( providing there was such a thing) and Athiest throwing bits and pieces of their "book" to me as a steadfast believer in God. It wouldn't mean anything to me, right? If I am not to be shaken and hold firm to what I believe.

The way I see it, my life stories, my upbrining, my testemony...ME...that is what they can respect for now. Not verses. I know it is the traditional christian thing to do to bring out the bible and start there...but that does not always work. It only frustrates people. Let them get to know you, your history, why you beleive what you do. Talk to them, answer their questions and answer them in a HYPOTHETICAL way. I have learnt little bits and pieces of the people here, and it's very interesting, no?

AND, always remember that EVERYONE is a sinner, christian or not. And your sin is no less or no greater than theirs. God is good Thundar. You and I know that for sure. Pray a little about different ways to reach people. At some point one needs to ask if what they are doing is getting them anywhere and if the answer is no, then look for different ways.

Oh, and regardless of Urizens intent or wording...it still is an opportunity to think and answer...you won't be shaken if you are firm in your belief.

You make some very valid points. I'll definitely pray about what you suggested. And you passed the test..wink

marcu
Originally posted by Thundar
You make some very valid points. I'll definitely pray about what you suggested. And you passed the test..wink

What test? confused

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by marcu
What test? confused

Is he testing people? Maybe that is his problem.


Thundar who did Jesus hang out with?

marcu
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is he testing people? Maybe that is his problem.

I don't know....I typically like a week or so to study before I get tested on something. I wonder what I passed? I must be smart though..cause I passed with no study period before hand. smile

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by marcu
I don't know....I typically like a week or so to study before I get tested on something. I wonder what I passed? I must be smart though..cause I passed with no study period before hand. smile

laughing I wonder how I did. sad laughing

Thundar
Originally posted by marcu
What test? confused

The test of sincerity. Hard to tell if new users are socking, mocking, or are truly being sincere with their responses and questions on these boards. Once again good post, and your points were well made.

Shakyamunison
The way you truly are inside is how you first see other people. A lier assumes that other people are lying.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Robtard
There isn't a single shread of concrete proof that Jesus was divine, at best it's all hearsay; it all boils down to faith.

Correct. But, let me (kindly) ask you this. When you fall down and get an owie do I exhibit your wounds? No.

Why then do the wounds of Christ appear on his most ardent followers/worshippers? Because he was a nobody like you and me?

Hardly not.

Alos, I'm not trying to start a holy war here. And, I do understand your stance. I'm voicing my belief and what's important to me. wink

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The way you truly are inside is how you first see other people. A lier assumes that other people are lying.


That would only hold true if I thought myself as better than anyone else. I know myself to be a sinner like anyone else, and see my salvation as through Christ -- not through what I do.

I think the major problem is with my approach, not with who I think I am. Marcu actually had a good point about the way in which I approach people, which is something that sincerely needs to be thought about.

marcu
Originally posted by Thundar
The test of sincerity. Hard to tell if new users are socking, mocking, or are truly being sincere with their responses and questions on these boards. Once again good post, and your points were well made.

*wipes brow*

Glad I passed.

Anyway, the way I see things, especially on a board and not face to face, is that I must first and foremost remember that these are people just like myself. You may notice that I often don't post or respond certain things or TO certain people just yet. The reason for that is that I know that I NEED to get to know them as people first. Their beliefs are sooo secondary for me. What if they were badly hurt by a Christian in their past...or have seen nothing butr hypocrytical Christians growing up? What if they were presented the wrong views on God and Christianity like I was? I NEED to know them as people BEFORE I take a look and discuss their beliefs and mine.

God hung around with regular joe's. Not just believers. He walked among many.

Shaky for instance. I know enough now that I can talk to him about God and where I stand. He can question me and I will answer if I can. I do not pretend to know all. Cause I don't. I know very little. But, him and I can converse with no problems.

It doesn't take much to look and see who these are as REAL people, putting aside their personal beliefs for the time being. Everyone has a story Thundar. I like to hear it and apply. That's all.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
That would only hold true if I thought myself as better than anyone else. I know myself to be a sinner like anyone else, and see my salvation as through Christ -- not through what I do.

I think the major problem is with my approach, not with who I think I am. Marcu actually had a good point about the way in which I approach people, which is something that sincerely needs to be thought about.


My statement has nothing to do with rather you think you are better then anyone else. I was questioning your need to test people. I think the person you are testing is really yourself. However, Marcu point is valid and not in contradiction to my point.

Thundar
Originally posted by marcu
*wipes brow*

Glad I passed.


You better be...mad


Originally posted by marcu
Anyway, the way I see things, especially on a board and not face to face, is that I must first and foremost remember that these are people just like myself. You may notice that I often don't post or respond certain things or TO certain people just yet. The reason for that is that I know that I NEED to get to know them as people first. Their beliefs are sooo secondary for me. What if they were badly hurt by a Christian in their past...or have seen nothing butr hypocrytical Christians growing up? What if they were presented the wrong views on God and Christianity like I was? I NEED to know them as people BEFORE I take a look and discuss their beliefs and mine.

God hung around with regular joe's. Not just believers. He walked among many.

Shaky for instance. I know enough now that I can talk to him about God and where I stand. He can question me and I will answer if I can. I do not pretend to know all. Cause I don't. I know very little. But, him and I can converse with no problems.

It doesn't take much to look and see who these are as REAL people, putting aside their personal beliefs for the time being. Everyone has a story Thundar. I like to hear it and apply. That's all.


Well I agree with you for the most part, except I do know all..or at least I think I do..you haven't noticed that yet..wink

EDIT

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alfheim
So why would you have to be a Jew or Christian there other religons you know? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Those would be the other religions that I would be willing to follow because they believe the same god; the God of Abraham.

I addressed that in my last post, if you even read it.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Those would be the other religions that I would be willing to follow because they believe the same god; the God of Abraham.


Yeah so what? Why do you have to follow the God of Abraham.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota

I addressed that in my last post, if you even read it.

What this one.....

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yeah I know....you're Islamaphobic.



Nice points, but if it was proven that Jesus lacked divinty, then there's really no point in worshipping him, is there?? That would be a textbook example of denial.

I stand correct: I would become a Muslim if that were the case. Because like Christianity, Islam also emphasizes the Afterlife, I've read the Koran and liked it, and I admire the religion.

And also, you seem to think that I would cast Jesus and his teachings aside; that's not true. In Islam, he's God's second greatest prophet. The Koran speaks very highly of him, and he's mentioned by name in it 93 times, which is more than he is mentioned by name in the entire New Testament.

If this is one I did read it....and?

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My statement has nothing to do with rather you think you are better then anyone else. I was questioning your need to test people. I think the person you are testing is really yourself. However, Marcu point is valid and not in contradiction to my point.


Well I've already failed the test in my own eyes. That's why I believe in Christ, cause I kinda already know that I haven't passed it, and that he's the only one who can get me through it. Belief in Christ gives me hope -- I mean if he can work with a guy like me(hypocritical nut-job), King David(murderer/adulturer), and countless other flawed human beings - than I believe that's proof enough he can work with anyone.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so what? Why do you have to follow the God of Abraham.


I choose to.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What this one.....



If this is one I did read it....and?

I explained why I would be a Muslim.

You honestly believe that I think there are only three religions in existence?? Be real.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I choose to.

Fair enough


Originally posted by Quiero Mota

I explained why I would be a Muslim.

You honestly believe that I think there are only three religions in existence?? Be real.

Well as long as your not being elitist thats fine. But at the same time did you mention earlier on you didnt have a problem with some people beating their wives. If so I can see why maybe you might have no problem in being muslim.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
Well I've already failed the test in my own eyes. That's why I believe in Christ, cause I kinda already know that I haven't passed it, and that he's the only one who can get me through it. Belief in Christ gives me hope -- I mean if he can work with a guy like me(hypocritical nut-job), King David(murderer/adulturer), and countless other flawed human beings - than I believe that's proof enough he can work with anyone.

I wasn't trying to criticize you; I was just trying to help you. Knowledge will set you free.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well as long as your not being elitist thats fine. But at the same time did you mention earlier on you didnt have a problem with some people beating their wives. If so I can see why maybe you might have no problem in being muslim.

I find the Islamic views of God, sin and the Afterlife more appealing than the Christian, to be honest.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I find the Islamic views of God, sin and the Afterlife more appealing than the Christian, to be honest.

Id actually agree on that, but I bet you dont understand that the Christian view of orginal sin is actually about duality....in that regard the Christian view of sin makes more sense.

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wasn't trying to criticize you; I was just trying to help you. Knowledge will set you free.

Although I appreciate you trying to help, I really wasn't requesting it. I was just giving you an example of how great God's love is and how far reaching it is. My point was that if God can help someone like me or King David..he can help anyone..wink

EDIT

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
Although I appreciate you trying to help, I was really wasn't requesting it. I was just giving you an example of how great God's love is and how far reaching it is. My point was that if God can help someone like me King David..he can help anyone..wink

You are welcome. big grin

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Alfheim
Id actually agree on that, but I bet you dont understand that the Christian view of orginal sin is actually about duality....in that regard the Christian view of sin makes more sense.

I understand it plenty good.

Islamic view of sin: We're all born with a clean slate. Sin is an action only; not a state of being.

Christian view of sin: We're all born dirty sinners and need to spend the rest of our life repenting.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I understand it plenty good.

Islamic view of sin: We're all born with a clean slate. Sin is an action only; not a state of being.

Christian view of sin: We're all born dirty sinners and need to spend the rest of our life repenting.

Yeah but I think its more complicated than that. Regardless of wether you believe in Islam or not, one question bugs me is that why is it children suffer?

What has a child done to deserve pain. Well the story of adam and eve explains it. Whoever the first human being was that person perceieved duality in other words they were aware of opposites for example beautiful and ugly, hot and cold etc. In the Bible Paradise isnt just a place but a state of mind where these opposite where not perceived. The fall of man is trying its best in the bible to explain some thing that happened in a plane of reality which is not fully comperehended by the human mind, so man did fall but it the reason why its told in a story is that its the best medium for us humans to understand. The story is a metaphor.

At the end of the day when they talk about original sin, its talking about that state of mans mind. At the end of the day all humans will suffer until they learn to escape duality.

In Islam you may not have original sin but your still going to suffer..why, because God allowed it to happen. The Islamic God is basically a sadist.

Capt_Fantastic
I think a point of this thread that should be considered by just about anyone who has answered that they'd just become Jewish or Muslim needs to be: If one of the worlds major religions has just been proven completely false, why would I turn to another organized religion that has the overwhelming potential to be completely wrong as well?

Alfheim
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I think a point of this thread that should be considered by just about anyone who has answered that they'd just become Jewish or Muslim needs to be: If one of the worlds major religions has just been proven completely false, why would I turn to another organized religion that has the overwhelming potential to be completely wrong as well?

There all supposed to be taken metaphorically anyway...shessshhh.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alfheim
There all supposed to be taken metaphorically anyway...shessshhh.

That doesn't mean they are taken metaphorically.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That doesn't mean they are taken metaphorically.

Yeah well there supposed to be and it would help if some athiests types understood that as well.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Thundar
On a related note -- I can generally tell when a question is asked with sincerity, or if the motivation behind it is really meant to disparage someone or with evil intent. From my limited experiences interacting with Urizen, it's fairly apparent that his modus operandi is always to disparage Christianity upon opening up topics like these. Just click on his name, and read anyone of his threads and you'll clearly see what I'm talking about.



laughing OH YES I AM THE ANTI CHRIST ! FEAR ME KMC !!!! I AM HERE TO DESTROY ALL OF YOU !!! evil face


GET REAL WHOB....seriously, you are such a zealot tool....



I just LOVE how you assume you know exactly what another's intentions are, and I LOVE how you always assume you know exactly what goes on in the minds of others..

How you claim we all "inheritantly" know that God truly exists, how you claim homosexuality is chosen by all homosexuals, how you will ignore all of our POV's and replace them with your own perceptions of good/evil, right/wrong, logic/reason.


You're pathetic thumb down


This question is not aimed as bashing Jesus...


I've said OVER AND OVER I beleive Jesus Christ was a great man, like Buddha, but I think people who claim to folllow Christ do not truly know what that even means, and only beleive what they were taught for various reasons...


The question is aimed at questioning Christians, not Christ.

I wanted to know if CHRISTIANS would abandon Christ, someone they claim to love so0o0o much if he happened to be human.


Aparently, most of you would...which I find pathetic. Most of you Christians would abandon your beloved figure just because he doesn't have magical powers...which is sad.


As a Buddhist I admire and respect Buddha, and he being human does not interfere with that. I love my mother, my family, my freinds, my lovers, this world, animals, etc.


Nothing will change that. I love everyone for who they are (i may not like what people do or think, but i will never hate someone for who they are, nor abandon them so)



You even stated you would turn your back on Christ if he didn't truly resurrect from the dead. There goes his teachings, his word, his majesty, his influence on your life...all out the window, because you find out he has no magical powers....WOW


That say A LOT about YOU and your perceptions of LOYALTY

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
laughing OH YES I AM THE ANTI CHRIST ! FEAR ME KMC !!!! I AM HERE TO DESTROY ALL OF YOU !!! evil face


GET REAL WHOB....seriously, you are such a zealot tool....



I just LOVE how you assume you know exactly what another's intentions are, and I LOVE how you always assume you know exactly what goes on in the minds of others..

How you claim we all "inheritantly" know that God truly exists, how you claim homosexuality is chosen by all homosexuals, how you will ignore all of our POV's and replace them with your own perceptions of good/evil, right/wrong, logic/reason.


You're pathetic thumb down


This question is not aimed as bashing Jesus...


I've said OVER AND OVER I beleive Jesus Christ was a great man, like Buddha, but I think people who claim to folllow Christ do not truly know what that even means, and only beleive what they were taught for various reasons...


The question is aimed at questioning Christians, not Christ.

I wanted to know if CHRISTIANS would abandon Christ, someone they claim to love so0o0o much if he happened to be human.


Aparently, most of you would...which I find pathetic. Most of you Christians would abandon your beloved figure just because he doesn't have magical powers...which is sad.


As a Buddhist I admire and respect Buddha, and he being human does not interfere with that. I love my mother, my family, my freinds, my lovers, this world, animals, etc.


Nothing will change that. I love everyone for who they are (i may not like what people do or think, but i will never hate someone for who they are, nor abandon them so)



You even stated you would turn your back on Christ if he didn't truly resurrect from the dead. There goes his teachings, his word, his majesty, his influence on your life...all out the window, because you find out he has no magical powers....WOW


That say A LOT about YOU and your perceptions of LOYALTY

Those kind of Christians worshipers of the death of Jesus. They never talk about the teachings of Jesus. If they quote from the bible it will most likely be from Paul.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Those kind of Christians worshipers of the death of Jesus. They never talk about the teachings of Jesus. If they quote from the bible it will most likely be from Paul.



I notice that too....there are many Christians like Marcu who focus on his teachings of love, understanding, peace, tolerance, etc.


Then there are others who focus on his death and Hell like Whob (Thundar), Marcello, JIA, Usagi, etc.


Then there are those who lay in between: Nellinator, Regret, Feceman

BobbyD
Hi, Shaky. What's new?

smile

Robtard
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I think a point of this thread that should be considered by just about anyone who has answered that they'd just become Jewish or Muslim needs to be: If one of the worlds major religions has just been proven completely false, why would I turn to another organized religion that has the overwhelming potential to be completely wrong as well?

How else are you supposed to get into Heaven? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
How else are you supposed to get into Heaven? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Change your mind.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
laughing OH YES I AM THE ANTI CHRIST ! FEAR ME KMC !!!! I AM Aparently, most of you would...which I find pathetic. Most of you Christians would abandon your beloved figure just because he doesn't have magical powers...which is sad.

You even stated you would turn your back on Christ if he didn't truly resurrect from the dead. There goes his teachings, his word, his majesty, his influence on your life...all out the window, because you find out he has no magical powers....WOW

That say A LOT about YOU and your perceptions of LOYALTY
Again, Urizen, you show yourself to be an unknowledgeable ass.

The issue isn't with Christ having "magic powers," it's with the sacrifice of His death, the paying for all of our sins on the cross. If Christ was not, in fact, divine, then there was no sacrifice and we are bound to the Law, which prohibits worshiping of false gods--and I'm pretty damn sure human worship counts as that.

Thanks for that irrelevant piece of info. Your beliefs don't matter here, especially since you have not been deceived like we (theoretically) would have been.

You are so full of sweet, cheery-ass bullshit that you're giving me diabetes and E. coli at the same time.

TRH
Thanks for that irrelevant piece of info. Your beliefs don't matter here, especially since you have not been deceived like we (theoretically) would have been.


__________________________________________________
__________


Your life is irelavent

FeceMan
Originally posted by TRH
Your life is irelavent
Ohh, sick burn.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
Again, Urizen, you show yourself to be an unknowledgeable ass.


Oh, how so ?




Originally posted by FeceMan
The issue isn't with Christ having "magic powers," it's with the sacrifice of His death, the paying for all of our sins on the cross. If Christ was not, in fact, divine, then there was no sacrifice and we are bound to the Law, which prohibits worshiping of false gods--and I'm pretty damn sure human worship counts as that.



If Christ was human, you guys would abandon him..it's that simple. That's sad. All his teachings mean jack sh*t to you guys, and is only validated by the fairy tale of his resurrection.







Originally posted by FeceMan
Thanks for that irrelevant piece of info. Your beliefs don't matter here, especially since you have not been deceived like we (theoretically) would have been.


Yes, I beleive absolute Truth, you guys beleive lies. My religion is better than yours.





Originally posted by FeceMan
You are so full of sweet, cheery-ass bullshit that you're giving me diabetes and E. coli at the same time.



Love makes you sick I know....it's too gooey ...you prefer conflict.

TRH
Originally posted by FeceMan
Ohh, sick burn. its actually the truth



PS I am da master of burns

FeceMan
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh, how so ?
I believe I've gone to explain it in enough detail.

Way to oversimplify.

Roflcopter @ hypocrisy.

You know what? My religion is better because it has the one and only truth, the one and only God, and the one and only way to get to heaven. NEENER NEENER NEENER

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
You know what? My religion is better because it has the one and only truth, the one and only God, and the one and only way to get to heaven. NEENER NEENER NEENER



My religion is not responsible for:


-The Salem Witch Trials
-Crusades
-Spanish Inquisition
-justification for slavery of blacks
-justification for prejudice against homosexuals
-near extermination of the Native Americans


Can you say the same? erm

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My religion is not responsible for:


-The Salem Witch Trials
-Crusades
-Spanish Inquisition
-justification for slavery of blacks
-justification for prejudice against homosexuals
-near extermination of the Native Americans


Can you say the same? erm

Even religions have Karma.

TRH
Originally posted by FeceMan
I believe I've gone to explain it in enough detail.

Way to oversimplify.

Roflcopter @ hypocrisy.

You know what? My religion is better because it has the one and only truth, the one and only God, and the one and only way to get to heaven. NEENER NEENER NEENER your religion is ignorant and responsible for many many deaths and misery in this world Christianity reminds me of stuff I sometimes step on in the gutter

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by TRH
your religion is ignorant and responsible for many many deaths and misery in this world Christianity reminds me of stuff I sometimes step on in the gutter



thumb up

TRH
So thats all you have to say mad

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah well there supposed to be and it would help if some athiests types understood that as well.

I would help if some christian types understood that as well.


Originally posted by Robtard
How else are you supposed to get into Heaven? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Get a descent job so you can pay rent there like everyone else who lives there.

marcu
LU, is there a thread that you can think of that has a little history on you? Your backround, upbringing...anything you can think of? If so, would you mind pointing me in that direction so I can read it? Or would you allow me to just ask?

Lord Urizen
u could just ask

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
u could just ask

Ok, you dont have to answer any questions I ever ask you, alrite. Just so you know.

I am wondering...did you grow up with any Christians? Go to church? Anything like that...or no?

If you did, what was your experience like with it?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
Ok, you dont have to answer any questions I ever ask you, alrite. Just so you know.

I am wondering...did you grow up with any Christians? Go to church? Anything like that...or no?

If you did, what was your experience like with it?


I grew up Catholic....it was pretty cool.



It's actually a very long story

marcu
And what is it you consider you belief system now? Still Catholic? Athiest? What.

marcu
Do you know any Christians? People that you would met with regularly? If you do, what is your opinion of them?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
Do you know any Christians? People that you would met with regularly? If you do, what is your opinion of them?


I am now Buddhist


Almost all of My freinds are Christian, so is my family

I love them to death

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am now Buddhist


Almost all of My freinds are Christian, so is my family

I love them to death

Oh, good. I just think I figured something out about you then. It's not that you despise Christians or look down on them for their personal beliefs...but rather the approach that some take when talking with you on here. Am I right? Your not into the in-your-face Christian approach. Tell me if I'm wrong or right.

Glad you shared that. Helps alot to know that you love your Christian friends and family. Good to hear. smile

marcu
How did you decide on Buddism?

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
How did you decide on Buddism?

Good question.

He probably chose Buddhism because it doesn't have a God...a God which makes laws that he takes personal.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
Oh, good. I just think I figured something out about you then. It's not that you despise Christians or look down on them for their personal beliefs...but rather the approach that some take when talking with you on here. Am I right? Your not into the in-your-face Christian approach. Tell me if I'm wrong or right.

Glad you shared that. Helps alot to know that you love your Christian friends and family. Good to hear. smile



I have no respect for the history of Christianity of which is has a very violent and controversial. I also do not like the Bible because it justifies violence, closed mindedness, and hate...if you read it extensively and carefully.


But Christians are people. I would not dislike someone jsut because they are Christian. If Christianity works for them, then so be it.


It's christian Conservatism i do not like.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by marcu
Glad you shared that. Helps alot to know that you love your Christian friends and family.

Why, Urizen, it sounds like you love the sinners but hate the sin.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
How did you decide on Buddism?

Good question.

He probably chose Buddhism because it lacks a god...a "stupid" god that makes laws that he takes personal.

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I have no respect for the history of Christianity of which is has a very violent and controversial. I also do not like the Bible because it justifies violence, closed mindedness, and hate...if you read it extensively and carefully.


But Christians are people. I would not dislike someone jsut because they are Christian. If Christianity works for them, then so be it.


It's christian Conservatism i do not like.

Ok.

I'm not sure about the close-mindeness or the justifying violence part...but I can view it as your opinion with no problem.

Oh, and I'm the wrong girl to be talking to about reading the bible carefully. I'm sure you know more of it's contents than I do.

Are you married? Kids?

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
Are you married? Kids?

laughing out loud

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
Ok.

I'm not sure about the close-mindeness or the justifying violence part...but I can view it as your opinion with no problem.

Oh, and I'm the wrong girl to be talking to about reading the bible carefully. I'm sure you know more of it's contents than I do.

Are you married? Kids?



The primary reason I turned away from Christianity was because I actually started READING the Bible more extensively, and did not like what I read.


In my ignorance of the Bible, I was a proud Christian. Afterward, I turned away.



I am not married (I doubt I ever will be, not cuz just bcuz im homo, but because i cant imagined myself being married to anyone) No kids, just brothers and a sister, and a dog lol

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
laughing out loud


laughing I know....

marcu
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
laughing out loud

confused

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
laughing I know....

confused

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
How did you decide on Buddism?



The promotion of human equality, understanding, and absolute compassion for all life is what turned me on wink

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
confused

He's gay.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
confused


I'm Gay (well techincally bisexual, but i prefer men over women. I would probably never marry a woman)

marcu
So it was reading of the bible ONLY that turned you away from Christianity? Or did other things play a part?

Now I know why you are laughing...ok. Well, I guess I can see where marraige may be hard to come by for you. LOL. It's ok. And sorry, I forgot about all that. embarrasment

marcu
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The promotion of human equality, understanding, and absolute compassion for all life is what turned me on wink

And you didn't get these things from reading the bible?

(gotta go get supper on the go...back later)

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
I forgot about all that. embarrasment

How? Just take a look at his sig for Christ's sake (no pun intended).

Quiero Mota
edit

marcu
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
How? Just take a look at his sig for Christ's sake (no pun intended).

I have managed to tune that thing out. LOL.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
And you didn't get these things from reading the bible?

(gotta go get supper on the go...back later)

the Bible doesnt exactly promote equality...

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by marcu
I have managed to tune that thing out. LOL.

thumb up

gpchristloves
for ginerations they have been trying to prove he was just a man but all of them have been for not THey no that the tomb is empty you can go and see it to this day he did rise and he is god

Robtard
Originally posted by gpchristloves
for ginerations they have been trying to prove he was just a man but all of them have been for not THey no that the tomb is empty you can go and see it to this day he did rise and he is god

That logic is absolutely absurd... Let's just say for the sake of argument that 'they' indeed found the tomb where Jesus was laid after his crucifixion/death; how does it being empty in any reasonable way prove that Jesus was indeed resurrected and went up into heaven as God?

fini
http://www.sweaterscapes.com/images/sock-ins.jpg

fini
Funny how they come out in groups and DISAPPEAR in groups too

Robtard
Originally posted by fini
Funny how they come out in groups and DISAPPEAR in groups too

It's like real life... You're a single person, but you own many socks (or equivalent).

FeceMan
Originally posted by TRH
your religion is ignorant and responsible for many many deaths and misery in this world Christianity reminds me of stuff I sometimes step on in the gutter
A religion can't be ignorant. A religion isn't sentient. A religion has no will. A religion is not responsble for deaths and misery.

And you know what tickles me about this statement?

"Christianity reminds me of stuff I sometimes step on in the gutter."

If I said that about Islam or Hinduism or any other religion, I'd be spewing hate speech. You, on the other hand, are just fighting the good fight against us, the oppressors and destroyers.

**** off and die in a fire.

Robtard
Originally posted by FeceMan
A religion can't be ignorant. A religion isn't sentient. A religion has no will. I religion is not responsble for deaths and misery.

And you know what tickles me about this statement?

"Christianity reminds me of stuff I sometimes step on in the gutter."

If I said that about Islam or Hinduism or any other religion, I'd be spewing hate speech. You, on the other hand, are just fighting the good fight against us, the oppressors and destroyers.

**** off and die in a fire.

Though we often disagree Fece... I say good show.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by marcu
So it was reading of the bible ONLY that turned you away from Christianity? Or did other things play a part?



No.


Reading the Bible was the first thing that turned me off from Christianity. And why wouldn't it ? It's the basis of Christianity itself.


The whole "anti-gay" sentiment from Christian forces was the second motivation for my abandonment of my old religion.




There are like 10 other reasons....


I already wrote an entire essay to Quiero Mota about it...do i really have to repeat myself ?





Originally posted by marcu
Now I know why you are laughing...ok. Well, I guess I can see where marraige may be hard to come by for you. LOL. It's ok. And sorry, I forgot about all that. embarrasment





Even if Gay Marriage becomes legalized in New York, I probably will not do it. I don't trust anyone enough to bond with in that kind of way. Sadly....

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
the Bible doesnt exactly promote equality...



thumb up


You got that right. That's why I no longer follow it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by fini
http://www.sweaterscapes.com/images/sock-ins.jpg

Nice sock. laughing But isn't that a guy's sock. wink

Alliance
har har har

fini
ahhhhh, I see your point. LOL

Capt_Fantastic
i don't know, it looks like a sock my mother would own.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My point was that I think many Christians would abandon thier figure Christ if he was proven to be nothing more than human. Which is sad..

He was a great person. He should not be forgotten simply because he was human.


As a Buddhist, I admire Buddha greatly, regardless of the fact that he is only human.

Im a little confused.

Do Christians worship Christ AND God, or just God, or is God and Jesus the same, or are the separate entities but both Gods or is one greater than the other, and which one?


As far as Buddha goes - I agree. I think that gives me more hope, the fact that Buddha was a human and that humans can be good without alternative motives - like power, glory or money. thumb up

Atlantis001
Buddha itself is God. The part of Buddha that was human is Siddharta Gautama.

I think it is the same thing with Jesus. Jesus is a mortal man like Siddharta was, but he transcended to the state of God like Siddharta did too. In other words they became one with God.

FeceMan
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Do Christians worship Christ AND God, or just God, or is God and Jesus the same, or are the separate entities but both Gods or is one greater than the other, and which one?
We worship Christ, who is God, who is a separate entity that is, at the same time, one with Christ and the Holy Spirit.

confused

Regret
Originally posted by FeceMan
We worship Christ, who is God, who is a separate entity that is, at the same time, one with Christ and the Holy Spirit.

confused Some Christians do. The LDS worship, through Christ, God the Father who is an entirely separate entity that is one in purpose with the rest of the Godhead, for Jesus Christ who is the literal physical and spiritual Son of God, thus also a God, is the Advocate of Man with the Father, but is only one with the Father in that they are one in purpose in the same manner that Man can be one with God. The Holy Spirit is also a separate individual that is a member of the Godhead. Trinitarian doctrine is a perversion from our perspective. Trinitarian doctrine is an attempt to reconcile statements such as the following with the fact that God the Father and Christ as well as the Holy Spirit are three distinct and separate individuals:





Bible quotes using the term one, supporting separate individuals particularly John 17:21

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Buddha itself is God. The part of Buddha that was human is Siddharta Gautama.

I think it is the same thing with Jesus. Jesus is a mortal man like Siddharta was, but he transcended to the state of God like Siddharta did too. In other words they became one with God.


Buddha never claimed to be God...Buddha means "enlightened one"or "one who knows ultamate truth"


Siddhartha had no need for gods and they were of no relevance to his findings.

Phoenix*Rising
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ? Anybody who continues in the same belief after knowing the truth no matter on what subject is a waste of skin.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Phoenix*Rising
Anybody who continues in the same belief after knowing the truth no matter on what subject is a waste of skin.


True, but that's not what I am asking.



What I am asking is would the Christians today no longer call themselves Christian....Jesus taught great things. Would they deny his teachings if he lacked divinity ?

Christianity has evolved over centuries, and many Christians will deny that, but it's the truth. If Jesus was found to be only human by some kind of confirmative proof, Christianity would still exist.


It would just change....ofcourse, there will be few Christians who will still beleive in Heaven, Hell, afterlife, salvation, etc. despite proof of the contrary, but most Christians may remain Christian because of what the religion has done for them and their lives.


Christianity would most likely still exist, but in a different form. That is all.

Phoenix*Rising
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
True, but that's not what I am asking.



What I am asking is would the Christians today no longer call themselves Christian....Jesus taught great things. Would they deny his teachings if he lacked divinity ?


Christianity would most likely still exist, but in a different form. That is all. Jesus would most likely be thought of as a great teacher. Maybe someone like Buddha.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Phoenix*Rising
Jesus would most likely thought of as a great teacher. Maybe someone like Buddha.

Jesus = Buddha? I don't think so. Buddha taught for many years, while Jesus had just got started. If Jesus had continued teaching (and not got himself nailed) he might have become as great of a teacher as Buddha.

Phoenix*Rising
I'm talking about how people would view his teachings. Someone enlightened.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let's just say that in some future timeline where we still exist, there was concrete proof that Jesus Christ was simply a human being and was never resurrected.


I don't know what the proof would be, but for argument's sake, let us just say it was universally proven by all standards, and there was no more room for denial.



Would you abandon Christ ? Would you no longer worship him ? Would you deny his words, and forget about him as your savior ? (to all Christians)


Or



Would you still love him because of the teachings he has presented to you ? Would you remain loyal despite his lack of divinity, despite his being a human being, because of the example he set ? You are an idiot.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by lord xyz
You are an idiot.



You are a Virgin

lord xyz
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You are a Virgin A: I'm underaged
B: I will have sex eventually

You will always be an idiot.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lord xyz
A: I'm underaged
B: I can have sex

You will always be an idiot.

You two... please stop it. roll eyes (sarcastic) laughing

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