Did God create Hell?

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King Kandy
Any bible quotes one way or another would help.

No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective.

Blaxican
God created everything, though hell is more just another "dimension" really then a land of fire and bimstone. People don't go their for eternal torture.

Alliance
Originally posted by King Kandy
Any bible quotes one way or another would help.

No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective. If this was properly addressed in teh Bible, don't you think you'd have an answer already.

docb77
"God made Satan,
Satan made sin,
God made a hot place
to put Satan in,
Satan didn't like it and he said he wouldn't stay,
And he's been acting like the devil ever since that day."

-from some funny song I heard once

King Kandy
Originally posted by Alliance
If this was properly addressed in teh Bible, don't you think you'd have an answer already.
I haven't checked out the whole bible. That's why i'm asking.

Regret
Originally posted by King Kandy
Any bible quotes one way or another would help.

No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective.

Dependant on your perspective and what you meant by "hell", the answer is yes and no. God created an abode for the spirits of the departed. As to eternal anguish, did He create it? I am not sure, it would depend on if such was created or if it were a state that the creation could enter into. Did I create the broken state of the shattered vase, or was the shattering a separate concept from the creation of the vase?

Boris
Sure he did, he's worse than Satan!

King Kandy
Originally posted by Regret
Dependant on your perspective and what you meant by "hell", the answer is yes and no. God created an abode for the spirits of the departed. As to eternal anguish, did He create it? I am not sure, it would depend on if such was created or if it were a state that the creation could enter into. Did I create the broken state of the shattered vase, or was the shattering a separate concept from the creation of the vase?
Good answer... I meant did god create "Gehenna".

FistOfThe North
"In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" Genesis 1:1

And hell is supposedly in or on Earth figuratively and/or literally. (for believers.)

Regret
Originally posted by King Kandy
Good answer... I meant did god create "Gehenna". Then, my answer was the "I'm not sure" one. I believe the fire, and the location, was figurative.

lord xyz
Originally posted by King Kandy
Any bible quotes one way or another would help.

No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective. God invented Lucifer who invented Hell. So indirectly, yes.

Tangible God
Hell was designed as God's Warehouse. It's where he throws the shit he has no use for.

Help
God made Satan.

Satan betrayed God

God broke his own rule's and didn't forgive

God sent Satan away

Satan made a home for himself

Regret
Originally posted by Help
God made Satan.

Satan betrayed God

God broke his own rule's and didn't forgive This assumes Satan has stopped betraying, perhaps God has forgiven an innumerable amount of times, but Satan keeps repeating the erroneous behavior.

Shakyamunison
There is not creation and hell is not a place to good when you die. big grin

King Nothing
God made Hell but Satan spiced it up.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by King Nothing
God made Hell but Satan spiced it up.

What hell? wink

H. S. 6
So my question is, why did God create his own worst enemy? He's all-knowing, correct? So he should have known that Lucifer would betray him. And if God makes us like we are... why would he create someone who would betray him and attempt to lure us mortals into evil?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by H. S. 6
So my question is, why did God create his own worst enemy? He's all-knowing, correct? So he should have known that Lucifer would betray him. And if God makes us like we are... why would he create someone who would betray him and attempt to lure us mortals into evil?

It's not real. It's only mythology.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Help
God made Satan.

Satan betrayed God

God broke his own rule's and didn't forgive

God sent Satan away

Satan made a home for himself "God broke his own rules."

Niice.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's not real. It's only mythology.

Stop acting like a jackass. I'm asking for a purely Christian standpoint.

TRH
Originally posted by H. S. 6
Stop acting like a jackass. I'm asking for a purely Christian standpoint. he is not a jackass if you dont like what he says do something bout it

Gregory
I think it's pretty planly indicated in Revelation that the pit of fire is created by God, but I guess that's different from Hell? I mean, it's not where the devil is now, since it hasn't even been created yet...

I won't say "jackass," but I agree with H. S. 6 that when someone is obviously looking for a Christian perspective, butting in and declaring that it's not meaningful because God doesn't exist is pretty damn rude. To answer his question, I don't think that Satan can be God's enemy in any meaningful way, since God is omnipotent and Satan isn't. Presumably, it suites God's purpose to have a being that tests his creations.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by TRH
he is not a jackass if you dont like what he says do something bout it

The first post of the thread clearly says:

Originally posted by King Kandy
No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective.

He came in here looking for an argument. Perhaps dropping one or two of his comments is okay, but I was asking an honest question.

It's all common courtesy.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by H. S. 6
Stop acting like a jackass. I'm asking for a purely Christian standpoint.

Why should I give you a Christian standpoint? I'm not a Christian, and this is a open forum.

TRH
Exactly

RocasAtoll
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why should I give you a Christian standpoint? I'm not a Christian, and this is a open forum.

But you should respect the fact he wants an answer to his question, not a declaration of God's nonexistence you've given 10,000,000 times before.

Symmetric Chaos
God created everything.

Hell exists with in the set of "everything".

God created Hell.

Nellinator
Sheol was created by God. The lake of fire has yet to be created, but will be created by God.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
Sheol was created by God. The lake of fire has yet to be created, but will be created by God.

What a pleasant thought . . .

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by RocasAtoll
But you should respect the fact he wants an answer to his question, not a declaration of God's nonexistence you've given 10,000,000 times before.

How do I do that? It would be like someone asking you what kind of lipstick do Leprechauns use. You would have to say that Leprechauns are myths and therefore can't use lipstick.

Joseph_Kerr
From Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics by Norman Geisler

The Bible describes the reality of hell in forceful figures of speech. It is said to be a place of darkness, which is "outside" . Hell is away from the "presence of the Lord". Of course, these are relational, not necessarily spatial terms. God is "up" and hell is "down." God is "inside" and hell is "outside." Hell is the other direction from God.
The nature of hell is a horrifying reality. It is like being left outside in the dark forever (Matt. 8:12). It is like a wandering star (Jude 13), a waterless cloud (Jude 12), a perpetually burning dump (Mark 9:43-48), a bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1,3), a prison (1 Peter 3:19), and a place of anguish and regret (Luke 16:28).
To borrow the title of the book by Lewis, hell is the "great divorce" -- an eternal separation from God (2 Thess. 1:7-9). There is, in bilbical language, "a great gulf fixed" between hell and heaven (Luke 16:26) so that no one can pass form one side to the other.
Nowhere does the Bible describe it as a "torture chamber" where people are forced against their will to be tortured. This is a caricature created by unbelievers to justify their reaction that the God who send people to hell is cruel. This does not mean that hell is not a place or torment. Jesus said it was (Luke 16:24). but unlike torture which is inflicted from without against one's will, torment is self-inflicted.
Even atheists (Sartre) have suggested that the door of hell is locked from the inside. We are condemned to our own freedom from God. Heaven's presence of the divine would be the torture to one who has irretrievably rejected him. Torment is living with the consequences of our own bad choices. It is the weeping and gnashing of teeth tat results from the realization that we blew it and deserve the consequences. Just as a football player may pound on the ground in agony after missing a play that loses the Super Bowl, so those in hell know that the pain they suffer is self-induced.

Joseph_Kerr
As to the question of wheter or not God created Hell, since I believe that hell is the separation of man from God, therefore we in a sense created hell.
But does hell exist?
Jesus taught the existence of hell.
Matt. 10:28; Matt. 13:40; Matt. 25:41b; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31
The Bible teaches that there is a hell
Rev. 20:11-15; 2 Thess. 1:7b-9; Heb. 9:27
God's justice demands a hell
Justice demands the existence of hell, and God is just (Romans 2)
God is so pure and untainted that he cannot even look upon sin
(Hab. 1:13)
God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11)

God's love demands a hell
The Bible asserts that "God is love". But love cannot act coercively, only persuasively. A God of love cannot force people to love him. Force love is not love; it is rape. A loving being always gives "space" to others He does not force himself upon them against their will. Hence, those who do not choose to love God must be allowed not to love him. Those who do not wish to be with him must be allowed to be separated from him. Hell allows separation from God.

Human dignity demands a hell
Since God cannot force people into heaven against their free will, human free choice demands a hell.

God's sovereignty demands a hell.
Unless there is a hell there is no final victory over evil. For what frustrates good is evil.

The cross of Christ implies Hell... and I have run out of room. big grin

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do I do that? It would be like someone asking you what kind of lipstick do Leprechauns use. You would have to say that Leprechauns are myths and therefore can't use lipstick. You could just stay on topic then and not post. The common courtesy thing...

soin2cal
Devil actually.

JesusIsAlive

Regret
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God created everything.

Hell exists with in the set of "everything".

God created Hell. The question then is: Did God create everything ex-nihilo? "Everything" is a relative term.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
You could just stay on topic then and not post. The common courtesy thing...

I could say that same thing about you. Just because you don't like my answer does not mean it was off topic. There are a lot of times where I do not like your answer, but I don't try to stop you from posting. Now if I was Spamming, that would be a different story, but I made my posts short and didn't include irrelevant links, like other Christians would do in a non-Christian focused thread.

Nellinator
No need to defend yourself. You were off-topic.
Question: in Christian belief did God create hell? Answer: Yes
Time to close the thread.

TRH
Originally posted by Nellinator
No need to defend yourself. You were off-topic.
Question: in Christian belief did God create hell? Answer: Yes
Time to close the thread. no its time for you to get a life

Jim Reaper
That god guy should renovate... Hell could be the Las Vegas of the afterlife.

Nellinator
Originally posted by TRH
no its time for you to get a life lol

TRH
Originally posted by Nellinator
lol what is so funny

Nellinator
You telling to get a life. It's funny.

Tangible God
I'd call that a bit of a burn.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by King Kandy
...No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective.

Why?

TRH
Originally posted by Nellinator
You telling to get a life. It's funny. I am serious

Phoenix*Rising
Originally posted by King Kandy
Any bible quotes one way or another would help.

No "God does not exist". I'm an Athiest, but I want this answered from a total Christian perspective. God didn't create hell as we know it today. It was the church that has played this card to keep the masses in line. Money played an important factor.

The church wants money
Bring people in the church to get that money
Keep the people in church by telling them about damnation.
The church makes money
Church sends out missionaries.
The church makes money.
the church makes fellowship groups to bring in more people.
The church makes money.

People don't want to leave the church because they have now been brainwashed into believing they will go to hell.

The church makes money.

TRH
capitalists

Regret
It is amusing when a capitalist living a capitalist life in a capitalist society assumes everyone else is motivated by capitalist goals.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
It is amusing when a capitalist living a capitalist life in a capitalist society assumes everyone else is motivated by capitalist goals.

How much can you make off that idea? smokin'

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Sheol was created by God. The lake of fire has yet to be created, but will be created by God.


Oh He's so Loving roll eyes (sarcastic)


I sure wish my parents burned me alive, or tortured me in some other way, whenever I am a bad boy..out of love ofcourse smile

Nellinator
Derrr... there is no physical body in the afterlife. I already showed you what the Bible teaches about what the afterlife is like, it is entirely your own doing. Please do not take things out of the context they are presented in.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Derrr... there is no physical body in the afterlife. I already showed you what the Bible teaches about what the afterlife is like, it is entirely your own doing. Please do not take things out of the context they are presented in.



First you say God created Hell, then you say we created it erm

Regret
Depends on which Biblical sect you belong to.

Pharisees - Physical resurrection
Saducees - No physical resurrection

Lord Urizen
Thanks Regret, that's an eye opener (no sarcasm intended)

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
First you say God created Hell, then you say we created it erm No I didn't read carefully. Sheol was created by God. The suffering that happens there is of your own volition.Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanks Regret, that's an eye opener (no sarcasm intended) I should rephrase that, physical resurrection for the saved (I have always believed such), no physical resurrection for the unsaved as they are not apart of the resurrection, but the second death.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
No I didn't read carefully. Sheol was created by God. The suffering that happens there is of your own volition. I should rephrase that, physical resurrection for the saved (I have always believed such), no physical resurrection for the unsaved as they are not apart of the resurrection, but the second death.


Myth

Nellinator
But it is what the Bible teaches. If you don't want to believe it that is your choice and I can leave you alone, so long as misconceptions aren't what holds you back.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
But it is what the Bible teaches. If you don't want to believe it that is your choice and I can leave you alone, so long as misconceptions aren't what holds you back.

But why believe the bible?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But why believe the bible?

Why be Buddhist?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why be Buddhist?

Because the teachings of the Buddha are good for my life.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because the teachings of the Buddha are good for my life.

Exactly and many people believe the same thing about the teachings of the bible.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Exactly and many people believe the same thing about the teachings of the bible.

But I was talking to Nellinator. He has a duty to convert other people, and I do not.

Shelbert Lemon
I dont believe hell in the biblical sense exist... no fire, no brimstone.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But why believe the bible? It has proven its worth to me and to others I know amongst other reasons.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
It has proven its worth to me and to others I know amongst other reasons.

How do you fell about telling other people about hell?



















Note: Boy, does my grammar suck.

Nellinator
Depends, 99% of people have big misconceptions of eternal torture and whatnot and I like to debunk that ignorance. Hell is a misleading word and it is important to seperate the lake of fire and Sheol when discussing it. I only talk about it when they ask though, it's not something I use when talking about Jesus, I never use the "believe or else" strategy because that is not what Jesus did, nor does it set the right frame of mind for believing.

Alliance
No. They are "misconceptions" from your point of view. Many Christians think hell is eternal tourture and they use the bible to back it up. Just becuase you choose to select certain passages and ignore others doens't make you any more right.

maddani
I have not read any post in this thread,but here I go.
Man created hell as well as god.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
No. They are "misconceptions" from your point of view. Many Christians think hell is eternal tourture and they use the bible to back it up. Just becuase you choose to select certain passages and ignore others doens't make you any more right. I don't ignore a single one, I actually use the ones that they use and tell them why they got it wrong. Something with the translation and the usage of idioms. Those that think they can use the English translation of the Bible to back up eternal torture are simply misguided.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Depends, 99% of people have big misconceptions of eternal torture and whatnot and I like to debunk that ignorance. Hell is a misleading word and it is important to seperate the lake of fire and Sheol when discussing it. I only talk about it when they ask though, it's not something I use when talking about Jesus, I never use the "believe or else" strategy because that is not what Jesus did, nor does it set the right frame of mind for believing.

OK, Does it help you, to believe in a hell?

Nellinator
No, since I don't believe in "hell". But since I know what you mean, no it does not because it is ultimately inconsequential, even were to know I was destined for it I would still strive for God because that's what it's all about, loving God and loving others.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
No, since I don't believe in "hell". But since I know what you mean, no it does not because it is ultimately inconsequential, even were to know I was destined for it I would still strive for God because that's what it's all about, loving God and loving others.

Then why does hell exist?

Nellinator
Because certain people do not qualify for heaven. So they are alternatively blotted out.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Because certain people do not qualify for heaven. So they are alternatively blotted out.

Why did these people be allowed to exist in the first place?

Nellinator
Free will of the parents, all eventually stemming from someone who was righteous.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Free will of the parents, all eventually stemming from someone who was righteous.

So, we are back to the point of paradox. Christianity is built on a paradox; How can free will exist in a world that is controlled by an omnipotent god?

A paradox is like building your house on sand.

Nellinator
Because omnipotence doesn't mean that He controls everything, just that He can control everything.
It's like mixing two ingredients with one desired product. There are some other products that weren't what you wanted (let's call it precipitate), but God keeps adding in more reactant (grace) to make more and more of that precipitate become solution. Currently there is enough grace to get the whole world, we Christians need to stir and heat the mixture up by spreading the gospel to encourage the reaction of the precipitate. Ultimately the reaction, sadly does not and will not go to completion.

I'm sure there are multiple flaws in that analogy, but hopefully it makes enough sense.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Because omnipotence doesn't mean that He controls everything, just that He can control everything.
It's like mixing two ingredients with one desired product. There are some other products that weren't what you wanted (let's call it precipitate), but God keeps adding in more reactant (grace) to make more and more of that precipitate become solution. Currently there is enough grace to get the whole world, we Christians need to stir and heat the mixture up by spreading the gospel to encourage the reaction of the precipitate. Ultimately the reaction, sadly does not and will not go to completion.

Your analogy was great, but how can you hide something from god? Free will means we can hide our destiny from an all knowing god.

peejayd
Originally posted by Nellinator
No, since I don't believe in "hell". But since I know what you mean, no it does not because it is ultimately inconsequential, even were to know I was destined for it I would still strive for God because that's what it's all about, loving God and loving others.

* you don't believe in hell? how about the teachings of Jesus? the book of Revelation? that does not mean anything? hell exists, but it is not for good people, it is for the evil... God's love also includes justice... wink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by peejayd
the book of Revelation?

Is an allegory not a literal story.

Alliance
Doesn't that define the Bible?

Nellinator
Originally posted by peejayd
* you don't believe in hell? how about the teachings of Jesus? the book of Revelation? that does not mean anything? hell exists, but it is not for good people, it is for the evil... God's love also includes justice... wink Well I believe in Sheol/Hades and the Lake of Fire/Tartarus. Hell is used and includes both these terms and is therefore misleading which is why I don't use it because they are seperate.

Phoenix*Rising
Originally posted by peejayd
* you don't believe in hell? how about the teachings of Jesus? the book of Revelation? that does not mean anything? hell exists, but it is not for good people, it is for the evil... God's love also includes justice... wink

Revelations are allegories.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alliance
Doesn't that define the Bible?

Primarily yes. But Revelations is a special case since its allegories have nothing at all to do with religious life.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Primarily yes. But Revelations is a special case since its allegories have nothing at all to do with religious life.

Correct. It was an anti-Roman propaganda code book.

Phoenix*Rising
Against Nero I believe.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Phoenix*Rising
Against Nero I believe.

Yes, 666 = Nero

Phoenix*Rising
If I remember correctly, at that time people were very afraid to speak out and many people spoke in code. I also read somewhere that Nostradamus also spoke in code during his time against the Authorities.

Lord Urizen
Oh my God, Nero was such a horrible person

the Darkone
Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels not men, but if man doesn't turn away from there sin and repent they will be cast into hell/hades.

Alliance
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh my God, Nero was such a horrible person

This information comming from the Roman senators that wnated to assassinate him.

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