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Nihilus takes this, he's too damn powerful.

1. He was able to drain an entire force sensitive race, as well as hundreds of jedi, all at once. His drain is also different in nature to a regular drain, in that it causes havoc on infrastructure and pretty much drains the force out of everything, and the life out of everyone that gets in its way. He's also shown that he has the ability to do it at will, and near instantaneous as well. His drain was so strong that Traya described his use of it as something to which there is no defence.

2. With the force, he threw Traya around like a rag dole..
The same Traya who instantly force owned three powerful jedi masters, and who was able to see 4 thousand years into the future.

3. He escaped a physical death by transferring his consciousness into his armour when his physical body died. The fact that he knew such obscure techniques as this one makes it clear that his knowledge base must have been very large, and very great.

4. With the force, he tore his entire fleet, including his starship, The Ravager, out from the mass shadows of Malachor. That kind of TK is insane.

5. His drain was so damn powerful that it was always under constant effect, and would dominate the minds of virtually everyone around him, including even some force sensitives to a degree.

5. While on his ship, he would constantly hold his entire ship together through telekinesis. This kind of continuous use of the force would be extremely draining on his strength, yet even in this state, he was able to instantly stun The Exile, Visas Marr and the Mandalore at once. And even after subsequently being weakened by draining The Exile - a wound in the force, he was able to put up a good fight against all three of them, and almost defeat them, given that Visas still felt that even in that weakened state, he was still too powerful to defeat. In other words, while continuously using most of his energy, and after having been heavily weakened, he still kicked major ass.

He also possesses two major advantages against force users:

1. He's a wound in the force, which means that he gains the same advantage against other force users that the Yuuzhan Vong do. Exar won't be able to sense him through the force, he won't be able to read his thoughts/feelings, and he won't be able to directly affect him with the force. Technically, Darth Nihilus could just use a force camouflage, and Exar wouldn't be able to visibly see him, or sense where he is with the force. In other words, he would be screwed.

2. His consciousness lies within his armour, which means that the only way he can be killed is through the destruction of his armour.

Stop copying and pasting your description on Nihilus, which was destroyed already. Exar Kun's force abilities and sith knowledge exceeds that of Nihilus. Not to mention he's got his amulet blast which would wtfpwn Nihilus. If this gets down to a saber fight, Kun wins this with relative ease..

We've been through this before Sexy, now what's worse, doing what I do, which is using old arguments to save time from having to come up with a brand new one, or what you do, which is copying other people's arguments (such as Advent's or Gideon's) and still not expressing them very clearly? I'll answer for you: what you do is worse, so why bring this up every debate?



Unsupported. Really, given your attitude at thinking you're on par with people such as AC, Advent and Gideon, you should at least learn to debate like them; they usually post nice long arguments that make sense and are backed up, all you do is state your opinion as fact, and it gets tireless debating with someone like that. You're arguments constantly bore me.



Again, unsupported. Maybe, just maybe, given how strong Nihilus is, he'll be able to defend against them. His TK abilities, as I have already pointed out, were petty insane; I really wouldn't be surprised if he could just push the blasts back at Kun with the force.



1. No proof whatsoever...

2. It likely won't get to a saber fight, when you have somebody as powerful with the force as Nihilus is.

Originally posted by allfg
We've been through this before Sexy, now what's worse, doing what I do, which is using old arguments to save time from having to come up with a brand new one, or what you do, which is copying other people's arguments (such as Advent's or Gideon's) and still not expressing them very clearly? I'll answer for you: what you do is worse, so why bring this up every debate?
Actually I don't copy either of their arguments and they could attest to that, you just like making up bullshit when your shit gets defeated quickly.




Considering while I'm not better than either Advent or Gideon, I certainly am in the same league, and they could attest to that as well. As the worst debater on this forum, you don't really have the authority, nor the credibility to tell me where I stand.. I'm glad my arguments constantly bore you, so do your daily defeats.




Aren't you the idiot who said Nihilus is the most powerful star wars character? I love how you constantly argue against logic, and then wonder why you have no debating skills whatsoever. And your bullshit about Nihilus blocking energy makes me laugh and wonder why you come back here for embarassment. I wouldn't even call that an unsupported assumption, as much as a dumb claim by a fool.




You're right, there would be nothing left of Nihilus after Kun blasts him with all that energy.

Lol, of course you don't. You don't copy arguments.







Yes I can. You're actually someone I can honestly say that I'll always beat in a debate, I can't actually imagine you defeating a beyond Kadesh level debater, you're that bad. I wouldn't usually bother with you, but you see to feel obligated to challenge every single one of my posts, and I'm sure you can understand how that could be a tad bit fricking annoying.



Based on his pure power, and the advantages he has against other force users, he is the most powerful, except maybe Sion.



ZOMG, it's ENERGY, ergo it Can't Be Blocked!



Sure thing buddy!

Originally posted by allfg
Lol, of course you don't. You don't copy arguments.




That's nice. Let me know when you have any credibility on this forum.




Except for the fact that you have never beaten me in a debate, and others have acknowledged this. I realize you live in your own little fantasy world where you don't get embarassed everytime you type, but I'm afraid reality works differently. You are the worst debater on this forum, and have been acknowledged as such, so you're basically making a fool out of yourself yet again. Thanks for the laughs forum clown.




Yet another stupid statement that makes you the biggest joke on KMC..




prove energy with no boundaries can be blocked. Oh wait, burden of proof isn't your speciality. In fact, you're on the wrong forum.




Keep embarassing yourself, those anti depressants must be working well.

OK, I'm done debating with you, the fact that I made a nice long and supported argument for Darth Nihilus winning while you have done no such thing for Kun says everything.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Stop copying and pasting your description on Nihilus, which was destroyed already. Exar Kun's force abilities and sith knowledge exceeds that of Nihilus. Not to mention he's got his amulet blast which would wtfpwn Nihilus. If this gets down to a saber fight, Kun wins this with relative ease..

You are so right.

Originally posted by allfg
OK, I'm done debating with you, the fact that I made a nice long and supported argument for Darth Nihilus winning while you have done no such thing for Kun says everything.

Oh right, in your word you typing constitutes as a nice and long argument, just like your Darth Bane novel. Oh wait.. Tool

Refute it, make a greater argument for Kun, or be quiet.

Originally posted by allfg
Refute it, make a greater argument for Kun, or be quiet.

I did. Kun's raw force abilities and sith knowledge exceed that of Nihilus'. His dueling abilities also exceed Nihilus' dueling skills, and unless Nihilus ca quickly use his force drain(seeing as how Kun is uber powerful and studied ancient sith secrets, thereby more than likely knowing a version of force drain), there's no chance of him winning. There we go, that little paragraph should shut you up. Then again you don't seem to know when to shut up.

This is exactly what I'm talking about...
You need to back up your sh1t, or stfu.



Again, unsupported. This is getting a bit too easy dude.



Read my post again, there's much more to Darth Nihilus than that one ability.



Are you actually being serious? I usually have to work harder when replying to fricking Kadesh, at least he keeps me busy for longer than half a minute.

Originally posted by allfg
This is exactly what I'm talking about...
You need to back up your sh1t, or stfu.
My shit is backed up francine, or did you forget to read DLOTS and TSW?




Yes, for me. I don't even have to type out long sentences to defeat your piss poor arguments.




No, you making up a bunch of bullshit doesn't constitute as fact francine. Denial isn't a "logical" thing.




I'm sure you do have to work harder at losing against Kadesh, with me you can't last half a minute. Way to prove it once again Francine.

Ok I'm done for real now, you're such a dumbass.

Originally posted by allfg
Ok I'm done for real now, you're such a dumbass.

Keep trying Francine, you embarass yourself the more you type.

This could go either way, if Kun uses his amulet blast right away he could get Nihilus, otherwise Nihilus could just drain him instantly. I don't believe Kun has a defense for that. And Kun's not the type of guy to use the amulet blasts in a one on one fight, it seems, unless he has to. So he draws his saber only to get Force Drained. I go w/ Nihilus.

Do we even know if nihilus drain is instant? I know that a while back i used to claim it is but now i think its proper and formal to back it up. So is it instant?



And if its why would nihilus use it during battle, as far as i am concerned he only uses it when he needs to when he hungers for the force

Originally posted by Kadesh
Do we even know if nihilus drain is instant? I know that a while back i used to claim it is but now i think its proper and formal to back it up. So is it instant?



And if its why would nihilus use it during battle, as far as i am concerned he only uses it when he needs to when he hungers for the force

he would ue it in battle because he's ALWAYS hungry for the force.

i say if nihilis's force drain is instant he wins, and thats against anybody, even if it were all of the force users ever. if it's instant they all get eatin.

but if it isnt then ya exar woud beat him.

Eh, Luke could get 'em. He can cut himself off from the force, lol...

All Darth Nihilus needs to do is to unleash his Drain attack and he will win.

And Kun has a chance if he has his amulets with him and can manage to use them quickly on Nihilus.

Still it seems that Nihilus probably has the upper-hand because he can unleash his Drain attack quickly. as evident from the video in the link below.

Here is a video of Nihilus in a one-on-one fight: http://buscatube.com/?q=Gizka

EDIT:

@ xatl

It is Exar and not Exae.

Um cut content is not canon legend

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um cut content is not canon legend
Wasn't some content was cut from KOTOR II due to shortage of time?

And who said that cut-content is not canon? A huge patch is already under development which will restore the cut-content of this game.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wasn't some content was cut from KOTOR II due to shortage of time?

And who said that cut-content is not canon? A huge patch is already under development which will restore the cut-content of this game. The patch will be restored by non lucasarts officials and thus are not canon. Heck after killing nihilus the ravager spirals and crashes into citadel station as what i saw on wookiepedia while in the game officially and canonically, the ravager blows into dust

Cut content is not canon, and we don't know how instant Nihilus' force drain is. However we do know Kun's blasts are instant.

LeGenD, first, let it be known to the public that you can't debate. Secondly, Darth Sexy and Kadesh are both properly correct. Content that is cut from anything - unless supported by The Holocron or George Lucas - is automatically rendered non-canon. Meaning that that lovely video doesn't apply at all, nor do the powers detailed. I would like to conclude, again, with my favorite fact involving you: you can't debate.

As far as this fight is concerned, I can see both sides winning. Kun doesn't have a defense against Nihilus's drain, but then again, Kun can put a bolt right through Nihilus and drop his ass. So, Kun will likely lose his Force powers, but I see him potentially killing him via destroying his armor and his amulet blasts are EASILY within capability to do so.

So, meh. Dunno.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Stop copying and pasting your description on Nihilus, which was destroyed already. Exar Kun's force abilities and sith knowledge exceeds that of Nihilus. Not to mention he's got his amulet blast which would wtfpwn Nihilus. If this gets down to a saber fight, Kun wins this with relative ease..
Yeah b/c Exar Whiped out 99% of the Jedi oorder in one attack.

Originally posted by Kadesh
The patch will be restored by non lucasarts officials and thus are not canon. Heck after killing nihilus the ravager spirals and crashes into citadel station as what i saw on wookiepedia while in the game officially and canonically, the ravager blows into dust
Yup he's right here's the pic http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/9/97/Ravagercrashesintocitadel.jpg

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yeah b/c Exar Whiped out 99% of the Jedi oorder in one attack.



Oh look, another blubbering buffoon. Do me a favor and unplug your modem forever. Nihilus didn't wipe out 99% of the jedi order, Revan and his civil war did. What was left of the Jedi(numbering under 100), disbanded, turned to the darkside, abandoned being a jedi, or were on Katarr when Nihilus struck. There is NOTHING that states how many Jedi were on Katarr.. Shut up now.

Two things noticeably wrong with your post:

1) What Bane and Exar Kun did are not the same thing, Bane's force attack was never described as a beam of energy but it was literally called: "a wave of force energy." and a "shock wave." this can logically be seen as an powered up version of the force power in KOTOR (which coincidentally the writer of PoD in fact wrote.) the force wave as concussive blasts that sends foes flying back.

Moreover this attack was also described as a concussive blast, implying its the same as the KOTOR attack. And not a beam of dark side energy like what Kun did, fianlly we've never seen this attack replicated without an amulet attached to the users are. Therefore your point about it being able to be blocked relatively easy by Nihlius is wrong.

2) Nihlius's force signature is not detectable because of his status as wound in the force, this was stated as to why the Jedi couldn't effectively mount any sort of counter attack against the Sith because just as fast as they appeared they disappeared, Atris talks about how they are cowards and how she had to leak information of a surviving Jedi just to draw the Sith out. Obviously this wouldn't be necessary if they could simply detect him.

Visas states that only she can find her master and she will not bring the Exile before him until she deems her ready for the confrontation, Obviously this wouldn't be necessary if the Exile, Kreia, or any of the other Jedi aboard the Ebon Hawk could simply pin point his location.

Thus the few Jedi on Katarr would have had no clue that Nihlius had arrived until it was too late.

Anther point I belive is that you can't just sense people unless they particularly "want" to be found or are in times of extreme duress and can't control there emotions ie: when a very powerful force users takes a dark side shit or taps into the living force. If this was the case then Malak should have recognized Revans massive signature in the force the moment he started training on Dantooine, or in particular the Jedi should be able to sense any Sith or dark side user to ever come about and vice versa. But as we've seen that doesn't happen.

amen

I'm thinking (as a theory, so don't go on with pointless bashing) that Nihilus' powers, when used on a grand scale were either ritualistic or aided by the use of some artifact (maybe even his ship).

It doesn't make sense to me that Nihilus could drain a whole planet, but, when he goes to kill an unsuspecting Kreia, she lives through it. Even his attack in the cut content against Sion is a "Meh" as far as big dog force powers go.

I'm not so sure that draining a planet will help all that much in a vs. match.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'm thinking (as a theory, so don't go on with pointless bashing) that Nihilus' powers, when used on a grand scale were either ritualistic or aided by the use of some artifact (maybe even his ship).

It doesn't make sense to me that Nihilus could drain a whole planet, but, when he goes to kill an unsuspecting Kreia, she lives through it. Even his attack in the cut content against Sion is a "Meh" as far as big dog force powers go.

I'm not so sure that draining a planet will help all that much in a vs. match.

Jim, I heavily doubt that it was ritualistic. The effect in "unseen unheard" was described as being instantaneous. Nihilus's ship is in orbit and moments later a cloud encompassed the entire planet. Moreover narration and his use of the attack indicated that it was instantaneous as well. The idea that his ship helped him is very unlikely, as it was a piece of junk he lifted from Malachor. Other than that, nothing was stated that would go contrary to the idea that he did it himself, so I don't think so.

As for killing Traya there could be many reasons. They could have believed that leaving her alive and stripped of the force would be an even greater punishment.

If they wanted to kill her, there could have been any number of ways even if Nihilus could not use the drain as much as he wanted to.

You misunderstand, I'm not arguing pro Kun, I really don't care much about the actual vs match up, I was just correcting you on when you basically said "They're the same."

I never said it was the same as a regular force wave infact I even used the phrase "powered up" to describe it considering Bane dumped all his remaining force energy into the attack the affects of such an attack would be much greater and more devastating then a "regular" force wave.



Dunno, dont care.




They were on the Miraluka home-world...a force sensitive species...see where the "large force signature" would come from...

Point acknowledged then.




Granted. For the record, how many Jedi would you imagine were present?

Not alot considering the whole thing was a trap set by Atris to lure out the Sith from hiding. Also considering 4 prominent Jedi council members and Bastila didn't go and or had no knowledge and of the arranged meting till after Nihlius destroys the planet it was probably a small collection of Masters that Atris kept in contact with.

Agreed.

I never stated that the numbers were especially significant, just sizable on it's own merit. It's obviously insignifcant compared to what was around before the civil war.

Zephiel, as to what DS said bane was only lucky that kasim was under the temple that he was able to kill him. Had the temple not been there, kasim would have shielded the blast until banes energy gets drained and thus proceed to kill him.

One thing to note, kuns blast power magnitude is well over banes as what the comics described "doubles with every pulse of anger" which significantly means the more angry he gets, the bigger and more powerful the blast will become. When have we actually seen kun using the amulet to its greatest? As advent pointed out a year ago, there was no big threat enough to use it on

Sexy, Kun's amulet blasts only made holes through the Massasi Temples, if they were as powerful as Bane's wave of energy, the sheer impact would have produced far greater damage.

And yeah, wasn't force lightning said to just bend away from the Vong. The amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus shares the same characteristics of the Vong, so why would there be anything different occurring here? There's also the fact that Nihilus' TK abilities are shown to be far greater than the destructive capabilities of the amulet blasts, so I don't see why he won't simply b able to use his insane TK abilities to push the blasts back at Kun.

Since when does Nihilus share the Vong's other force level? Nihilus is a wound in the force, but that doesn't mean he is on another level like the Vong, force powers can still hit him...

Originally posted by allfg
Sexy, Kun's amulet blasts only made holes through the Massasi Temples, if they were as powerful as Bane's wave of energy, the sheer impact would have produced far greater damage.
Banes wave energy is as what sexy said a normal force wave which has the power to break bones in peoples body. On the other had kuns blast is able to disintegrate anything in its path, in other words its far more powerful than banes force wave

Originally posted by allfg
No, nihilus is a wound in the force, vongs have no connection completely and force attacks do work against "wounds" as it worked on the exile.

And please prove that nihilus can redirect the blast because as far as canon goes, it cant unless you want to prove it can which by the way you cannot and will not

EDIT

Originally posted by Kamikz
Since when does Nihilus share the Vong's other force level? Nihilus is a wound in the force, but that doesn't mean he is on another level like the Vong, force powers can still hit him...

No, force powers cannot hit him, and have never been shown to. If it happened in gameplay, then it's not canon. Ask yourself Kamikz, why is it that the Vong can't be affected by the force? I'll answer it for you: it's because they have no presence in the force. The same goes for Nihilus.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Banes wave energy is as what sexy said a normal force wave which has the power to break bones in peoples body. On the other had kuns blast is able to disintegrate anything in its path, in other words its far more powerful than banes force wave

Where's it said that the amulet blasts disintegrated anything? And even then, while you're right about disintegration alone being more powerful than simply breaking something, when you consider that Kun's attack only made small holes in the temple wall, whereas Bane's collapsed the entire fricking temple, and thus had a much larger effect when taking volume into respect, Bane's attack is indeed much more powerful.



The Exile wasn't a complete wound, as he had been slowly regaining a presence in the force since the start of KotOR 2, and that's why he was able to be affected by force attacks. Nihilus however, was a complete wound in the force, has no force presence, and is immune to force attacks.



Ok, I'm not going to pretend I can 100% undeniably prove that Nihilus can defend against them, because I can't, nobody can otherwise, and the majority of crap on this forum hasn't exactly been 100% proven anyways. However, when considering that Nihilus' TK abilities have been shown to be far more powerful than the destructive capabilities of Exar's amulet blasts, and logic points to him being overall stronger in the force, I'd say the most likely route to take is that Nihilus would simply be able to push the blasts back at Exar. I'd also say that it's very likely that he could simply just conjure up a force shield and defend against it through those means. There's also the fact that the amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus is immune to force powers, so it's likely they would just arch away from nihilus like force lightning does the Vong.

Allfg, if Nihilus was immune to force powers, why would it be such a pain to just make him immune to it in gameplay?

And you're wrong. The Exile was a wound to, but don't you remember when all the dark jedi used force lightning around her to knock her out. It was when you were on Nar Shaada, and when you were brought up on the ship...

Also, Nihilus uses force stasis on the Exile, that works on him to. The Exile and Nihilus are the exact same case, so no, Nihilus is NOT immune to the force.

People who made the game are morons? They weren't aware of the fact that not being as part of the force makes you immune to it? I wouldn't usually use out of story explanations, but seeing as we're discussing something which is N Canon anyway (gameplay), why not?



I've already dealt with this point. The Exile wasn't a complete wound like Nihilus was, only partially, and he had been regaining his force presence ever since the start of KotOR2. So while he was partially a wound in the force, he also had a presence in the force, and thus could be affected by force powers. Nihilus is a complete wound.

As I've argued before, there is no indication that the Emperor wanted to drain Byss completely and in one fell swoop, since he used it to house his dark side experiments as well as replenish his life force due to the toll the dark side was taking on his body. To drain the entire thing would be completely counterproductive to his goals, wouldn't you agree?

Wasn't a complete wound? Since when? Where does it say that?
And I don't remember where it says Nihilus is one. (Can you remind me)

I don't know where you got the "not a whole", cause if you are not a part of the force, you cannot use the force, both Nihilus and Exile can. Please state where it says he is not a complete wound, and where it says Nihilus is one. From what I remember, the Exile was draining his enemies when he killed them, thus that is how he grew stronger in the force, same as Nihilus except that he used a technique....

It's all made clear in KotOR2. The Exile only started regaining hr presence in the force since the start of KotOR 2, due to her link with Traya.

Nihilus is only ever stated to be a wound in the force, and The Exile only regained her force presence due to her link with Traya. Nihilus had no such link.



Unsupported.



They both had a very similar condition, just not the same one.

If you do not exist in the force, how can you use the force?

It is unsupported as well to make the guess that Nihilus cannot be hurt by force powers. There is nothing ever stating such a thing, and the only thing keeping it going is that the Exile was regaining her force connection (as an excuse to why Nihilus wouldn't be)

Anway, here's what I got...

The Exile stopped using the force. Then when she met Kreia, she started using it again, thus she "regained her force connection".
But Nihilus in game can also use the force. The thing supporting that the Exile regained her force connection is that she is actually able to use it, and grows more powerful, nothing else. But Nihilus has ALWAYS used the force, because he never exiled himself from it. So why would Nihilus not be a part of the force as the Exile is, when clearly both use the force?

Being part of the force doesn't tie in with force use. Not to mention that Nihilus' nature is extremely mysterious and obscure.



No it's not. It's 100% supported. There's no force presence within Nihilus, thus he cannot be sensed, thus he cannot be directly attacked with the force.



It doesn't need to be stated, the fact is, he shares the same Vong characteristics, and thus would share the same virtual immunity against the force that they do.



And? So what? You're acting as if my 'excuse' isn't a valid one. The fact is, The Exile's nature slightly differs from Nihilus', so just because she can be directly attacked with the force, that doesn't mean that Nihilus also can be. Really, what's your point, exactly?



Actually, she's noted (by The Masters) as feeling slightly different than she did when they first exiled her. That's what supports her regaining her force presence, not what you mentioned.



1. Nihilus is basically an anomaly, and his nature is too mysterious to simply be fully explained.

2. Force presence and force use are not related.

Originally posted by allfg
Being part of the force doesn't tie in with force use. Not to mention that Nihilus' nature is extremely mysterious and obscure.



No it's not. It's 100% supported. There's no force presence within Nihilus, thus he cannot be sensed, thus he cannot be directly attacked with the force.



It doesn't need to be stated, the fact is, he shares the same Vong characteristics, and thus would share the same virtual immunity against the force that they do.



And? So what? You're acting as if my 'excuse' isn't a valid one. The fact is, The Exile's nature slightly differs from Nihilus', so just because she can be directly attacked with the force, that doesn't mean that Nihilus also can be. Really, what's your point, exactly?



Actually, she's noted (by The Masters) as feeling slightly different than she did when they first exiled her. That's what supports her regaining her force presence, not what you mentioned.



1. Nihilus is basically an anomaly, and his nature is too mysterious to simply be fully explained.

2. Force presence and force use are not related.


Wtf? How can you not be a part of the force, and use the force? That's like Han Solo using sith lightning.......


It never says anything that Nihilus does not exist in the force, only that he is a wound in the force. Blah, eh, whatever, we're just repeating the whole freaking thing. Anyway, MY opinion on this is that since Nihilus never exiled himself nor stopped using the force, he didn't need to "regain" his force connection, he already had it. The Exile regaining it is just what Nihilus already has. That is how I see it, you see it different? Fine........


(I hate being stuck in debates before I'm going to sleep )

You're confusing force sensitivity and force connection. I'll give you an example of how someone without a force presence can use the force: Luke Skywalker. He can remove himself into and out of the force at will, and can use the force in either state.



It's stated that he's a wound in the force, and then it's further explained what being a wound in the force is; it's an area where no force exists.



Play the game again, Nihilus' nature is a complete anomaly, it's not that simple.

Just remembered the Luke part.

Just asking now, how did Nihilus get wounded by draining the Exile. (More than just, "she's a wound in the force" plx). I haven't played KOTOR 2 in years...

Didn't Visas stun Nihilus if you asked her to, which is a cut scene in game (dialoug to).

Edit!

Bcos while The Exile has some presence in the force, she also has a lack of presence, and basically, draining a lack of the force seemed to severely weaken Nihilus, as he usually uses his force drain to drain the force out of someone and have it power him up, yet the opposite happened...



No. Definitely not. Even if she did, the cut scene is dependant on the PC's choice (as you just pointed out) which means it isn't canon until confirmed elsewhere.

She did, but as you said, it was up to the player.

Originally posted by Gideon
As I've argued before, there is no indication that the Emperor wanted to drain Byss completely and in one fell swoop, since he used it to house his dark side experiments as well as replenish his life force due to the toll the dark side was taking on his body. To drain the entire thing would be completely counterproductive to his goals, wouldn't you agree?

I agree. It still begs proof whether he can do the technique instantaneously.

I'll try and put it like this: you proved that if he could he wouldn't want to, but not that he could.

I'll reply to your posts later zephiel, there's too much to read right now.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'll reply to your posts later zephiel, there's too much to read right now.

Sure thing.

Actually, can you do me a favour? Can we do this on Friday, to save us both some strain?

I've got one hell of a weak ahead of me.

eh alright but by Friday I will most likely forget what it is we were debating about, but ok.

Originally posted by allfg

Where's it said that the amulet blasts disintegrated anything? And even then, while you're right about disintegration alone being more powerful than simply breaking something, when you consider that Kun's attack only made small holes in the temple wall, whereas Bane's collapsed the entire fricking temple, and thus had a much larger effect when taking volume into respect, Bane's attack is indeed much more powerful. Idiot, read totj, the amulet burned a hole through the sith wyrm and the pictures clearly show us that the blast dissintigrate the masassi to ashes, sorry liar buut you failed again


Originally posted by allfg

The Exile wasn't a complete wound, as he had been slowly regaining a presence in the force since the start of KotOR 2, and that's why he was able to be affected by force attacks. Nihilus however, was a complete wound in the force, has no force presence, and is immune to force attacks. idiot, kreia stated nihilus to be just like the exile and if nihilus is immune to force powers which would mean he is cut of the force completely, that would also mean he cannot use force powers. By your dumb logic nihilus > full potential anakin because "ZOMG! he is immune to powers!!!!!!!!!!"

Originally posted by allfg


Ok, I'm not going to pretend I can 100% undeniably prove that Nihilus can defend against them, because I can't, nobody can otherwise, and the majority of crap on this forum hasn't exactly been 100% proven anyways. However, when considering that Nihilus' TK abilities have been shown to be far more powerful than the destructive capabilities of Exar's amulet blasts, and logic points to him being overall stronger in the force, I'd say the most likely route to take is that Nihilus would simply be able to push the blasts back at Exar. I'd also say that it's very likely that he could simply just conjure up a force shield and defend against it through those means. There's also the fact that the amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus is immune to force powers, so it's likely they would just arch away from nihilus like force lightning does the Vong. please, lifting the ravager from the gravity wells prove nihilus > everybody else, palpatine lifted a SSD which is 20 times larger than the ravager. And if TK can counter amulet blasts then i guess it can counter Lightning and emerald lightning, first off you are a liar, 2nd you attempt to refute and defy canon 3rd you fail as usual. now sit down and stfu

Originally posted by allfg
Nihilus takes this, he's too damn powerful.

1. He was able to drain an entire force sensitive race, as well as hundreds of jedi, all at once. His drain is also different in nature to a regular drain, in that it causes havoc on infrastructure and pretty much drains the force out of everything, and the life out of everyone that gets in its way. He's also shown that he has the ability to do it at will, and near instantaneous as well. His drain was so strong that Traya described his use of it as something to which there is no defence.

2. With the force, he threw Traya around like a rag dole..
The same Traya who instantly force owned three powerful jedi masters, and who was able to see 4 thousand years into the future.

3. He escaped a physical death by transferring his consciousness into his armour when his physical body died. The fact that he knew such obscure techniques as this one makes it clear that his knowledge base must have been very large, and very great.

4. With the force, he tore his entire fleet, including his starship, The Ravager, out from the mass shadows of Malachor. That kind of TK is insane.

5. His drain was so damn powerful that it was always under constant effect, and would dominate the minds of virtually everyone around him, including even some force sensitives to a degree.

5. While on his ship, he would constantly hold his entire ship together through telekinesis. This kind of continuous use of the force would be extremely draining on his strength, yet even in this state, he was able to instantly stun The Exile, Visas Marr and the Mandalore at once. And even after subsequently being weakened by draining The Exile - a wound in the force, he was able to put up a good fight against all three of them, and almost defeat them, given that Visas still felt that even in that weakened state, he was still too powerful to defeat. In other words, while continuously using most of his energy, and after having been heavily weakened, he still kicked major ass.

He also possesses two major advantages against force users:

1. He's a wound in the force, which means that he gains the same advantage against other force users that the Yuuzhan Vong do. Exar won't be able to sense him through the force, he won't be able to read his thoughts/feelings, and he won't be able to directly affect him with the force. Technically, Darth Nihilus could just use a force camouflage, and Exar wouldn't be able to visibly see him, or sense where he is with the force. In other words, he would be screwed.

2. His consciousness lies within his armour, which means that the only way he can be killed is through the destruction of his armour.

Most of what he said is actually right.
Exar Kun is realistically no where near as powerful as Nihlus.

Nihlus wins this.

Oxymoron?

That's right.

Wow, more idiots just keep joining these forums.

Nah, that is a sock I believe...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'm thinking (as a theory, so don't go on with pointless bashing) that Nihilus' powers, when used on a grand scale were either ritualistic or aided by the use of some artifact (maybe even his ship).

It doesn't make sense to me that Nihilus could drain a whole planet, but, when he goes to kill an unsuspecting Kreia, she lives through it. Even his attack in the cut content against Sion is a "Meh" as far as big dog force powers go.

I'm not so sure that draining a planet will help all that much in a vs. match.


No, thats one big difference with Kun's power and Nihlus's.

You notice plainly that Nihlus doesn't require or have artifacts or amulets to unleash his destruction.
Kun requires these things for him.

If he can drain the hell out of a planet, he can drain Kun to a shrivled little pea.

Originally posted by kamikz
Just remembered the Luke part.

Just asking now, how did Nihilus get wounded by draining the Exile. (More than just, "she's a wound in the force" plx). I haven't played KOTOR 2 in years...

Didn't Visas stun Nihilus if you asked her to, which is a cut scene in game (dialoug to).

When Nihlus tried to absorb the Exile's power, he depleted most of his Force energy in the attempt and ended up exhausting himself to an extreme degree.

After that the Exile was able to fight him on a leveled playing field, so to speak.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
No, thats one big difference with Kun's power and Nihlus's.

You notice plainly that Nihlus doesn't require or have artifacts or amulets to unleash his destruction.
Kun requires these things for him.


What a shitty argument. Nobody says Kun requires his amulet but the amulet does amplify his force abilities. That doesn't put him below anybody.

Didn't Kun require it to destroy the Cron Cluster?

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Didn't Kun require it to destroy the Cron Cluster?

You are claiming that Kun requires the amulet to do his shit. That's already a piss poor argument considering Kun didn't "require" the amulet, and he only used it when he needed to wtfpwn something. And he used the sith technology on Naga Sadow's ship to rip the core from the sun and cause a chain reaction.

Not so much, but your on the right track.

I'm saying Kun needs tools for his most destructive abilities.

Nihlus wouldn't need any tool to help him obliterate a heavenly body.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Not so much, but your on the right track.

I'm saying Kun needs tools for his most destructive abilities.

Nihlus wouldn't need any tool to help him obliterate a heavenly body.

What the hell do you mean not so much, I'm reading your posts and that's exactly what you said. Don't talk down to me especially if you lack any real debating skills. Not to mention your argument is piss poor again because you claim that since Guy X uses the amulet for some destructive powers while Guy Y doesn't, that implies Guy Y is more powerful. That's a ridiculous argument and one that really shouldn't warrant a response. Not to mention Nihilus' only REAL attack is his force drain while Kun has learned plenty of sith techniques, some of which died with him.