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found this browsing around. not too sure how accuarate, but doesn't seem TOO bad. better than some lists i've seen . . .

Tier 1 - :

The Presence/Rama Kushna/Meshta

- Tier 2 - :

The Ultimate Darkness/ The Ultimate Light/ The Source/

- Tier 3 - :

Lucifer Morningstar / Archangel Michael/ Elaine

- Tier 4 - :

Anti-Monitor (full form)/ Ultimator/10th Dimensional Beings/ Hyperman

The Endless Death

The Witching Hour

- Tier 5 - :

Spectre (Fully powered) Parallax/ Parallax Entity/ Ion (Original)/ The Anti-Life Entity/ The Ecrus/ Shattered Gods/ The Warlogog/ The A/ Captain Atom (the one that created a universe)/ Kismet (if you want to go by JLA/Avengers)/ Carnivore/ Genesis Box/ Una, the Cosmic Worm of Heaven and Hell/ Maaldor (Universe)

- Tier 6 - :

The Endless Destiny/ Dream/ Destruction/ Desire/ Despair/ Dellirium/

Decreator/ Godwave

Hell Lords inside their own realm Neron/ Trigon/ Neron/ Satannish/ Satanus/ Azmodus/ Shaitan/ Eclipso/ Satan/ King of Tears/ Koth Sugoth/

- Tier 7 - :

Spectre (High powered)/ Eclipso, Wrath of God (High powered)/ Time Trapper/ Infinite Man/ Archangel Gabriel

- Tier 8 - :

The 5th Dimensional Imps

Known 5th Dimensiona Imps Mr. Mxyzptlk/ Lkz/ Yz/ Bat-Mite/ Qwisp

The Great Tree

- Tier 9 - :

Spectre (average)/ The Lurker/ Entropy (Krona)/ The Word/ Imperiex/ Brainiac 13/ Abraxus/ Promethian Giants/ Quantum Mechanics/ Black Racer/ Black Flash/ Kulak/ Mystos/ Shadrack/ Hellion/ Eclipso - Wrath of God (average)/ Spear of Destiny/ Superman Prime

Lords of Order -Lord Kilderkin / -J'akk / -Kismet / -Nabu: Nabu the Wise / -Pantagones / -Shatru/ -St'ann / -Terataya / -Ynar /

Lords of Chaos -Child/ -Gorrum/ -Hytuurnus / -Mordru / -M'Shulla/ -Nabu: Nabu the Wise / -Shivering Jemmy / -T'Charr / -The Weaver / -The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers / -The five original Lords of Chaos (Appeared in Grant Morrison's and later Ann Nocienti's Kid Eternity series - #:Chaos is viewed as a good force here)/ -Typhon/ -Vandaemon / -Zanadu the Chaos Maker

Stigmonus Monsiur

- Tier 10 - :

Bedlam/ Thunderbolt (inhibited)

- Tier 11 - :

The Old Gods

Arzaz (heroic Old God)/ Balduur (heroic Old God whose atoms formed New Genesis)/ The Dreggs (the undead)/ Lokee (god of evil)/ The Nameless One (evil Old God)/ Wotan (ruler of the Old Gods)/ etc.

S'ivaa the Destroyer and Dark Elements/ Maggedon/ Yuga Khan/ Clockwerx/ King of Tears (Outside it's realm)

- Tier 12 - :

Cosmic Skyfathers Darkseid (High showings)/ Highfather Izaya/ Shazam

Guardians of the Universe/ The Controllers/ Zamarons/ Skyfather pantheons (Odin, Zeus, Dove, etc.)/ Ares/ Cosmic Gamblers

Hell Lords outside their own realm Neron/ Trigon/ Neron/ Satannish/ Satanus/ Azmodus/ Shaitan/ Eclipso/ Satan

Wonderland Inhabitants/ Doctor Fate (Fullest)/ Eclipso (depowered)/ Superman One Million/ Tynan ( the balance between Chaos and Order)

The Archangels Gabriel/ Uriel/ Raphael/ Sarauquel/ Raguel

Oblivion/ Sun Eater/ Solaris/ Owners of the Earth/ Millenium Giants/ Trinity Giants (Guardians' god)/ The Elder gods of Shazam (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/ The Luck Lords

- Tier 13 - :

Despero/ Darkseid (varies)/ Helspont/ Lord Defile/ Hightower/ Lord Emp/ Doctor Fate (Normal)/ Validus/ Sun-Dipped Superman/ Fernus/ Takion/ Stayne/ Hourman III/ Waverider/ Godfrey Gaius (Actual form)/ Eye of Ekron/ Black Zero/ Swamp Thing (World Elemental)

Parliaments Trees/ Stones/ Water/ Fire/ Air

Elementals Firestorm/ Naiad/ Red Tornado/ Swamp Thing/ Elemental of Stone

Death Gods (Set, Pluto, Hel Half-Rotted, Kali, Hades, Persephone, etc.)/ Validus/ Omnimar Synn/ Overmaster/ the Doctor (any one since each has the powers of all previous Doctors)

- Tier 14 - :

Superman/ Green Lantern (varies)/ The Flash III/ Zoom II/ Mister Majestic/ Black Adam/ Doomsday/ Sinestro/ Orion/ Cyborg Superman/ Captain Marvel/ Martian Manhunter/ Sentinel/ Triumph/ Mantis/ Brimstone

Earth-Born Angel/ Supergirl/ Comet / Twilight / Blithe

Other Angels

The Seraphim/ The Cherubim

Apollo/ Lightray/ Captain Atom/ Firestorm/ Doctor Polaris/ Bizarro

- Tier 15 - :

Wonder Woman/ Captain Atom/ Superboy/ Supergirl/ Captain Marvel Jr./ Mary Marvel/ Lobo/ Etrigan/ Power Girl/ The Flash (Barry Allen)/ Kalibak/ Agogg/ Lex Luthor (armored)/ Zatanna/ Zauriel/ Asmodel/ Army of the Pax-Dei Angels

Steel

- Tier 16 -

Hercules/ Metallo/ The Ray/ Donna Troy/ Madame Xanadu/ Kinetix/ Doctor Light

- Tier 17 -

Aquaman/ Vandal Savage/ Blue Devil/ Wonder Girl/ Tempest/ The Flash (Jay Garrick)/ Impulse/Kid Flash/ Hawkman/ Plastic Man/ Elongated Man

- Tier 18 -

The Atom/ The Creeper/ Animal Man/ Clayface/ Vixen

- Tier 19 -

Batman/ Joker/ Bane/ Deathstroke/ Owlman/ Green Arrow/ Merylyn/ Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)/ Azrael

- Tier 20 -

Nightwing/ Deadshot/ Wildcat/ Black Canary/ Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)/ Green Arrow (Connor Hawke)/ Arsenal (Roy Harper)/ Hitman/ Catwoman/ Shado/ Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)/ Richard Dragon/ Lady Shiva

- Tier 21 -

Robin/ Huntress/ Speedy (Mia Dearden)/ Arrowette (Cissie King-Jones)/ Penguin/ Harley Quinn

Why does Fernus always get ranked above Jonn when he doesn't have a feat to his name that puts him above Jonn.....

It pisses me off.

Rather funky rankings IMO.

Just at quick glance, Wonder Woman and friggin Zatanna belong in the top tier. Donna Troy in the 2nd tier. Mxy and Bat-Mite should be grouped up there with Ion and Parallax. Not sure why some characters are listed twice but nonetheless it doesn't make sense to divide them into high and low showings.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Why does Fernus always get ranked above Jonn when he doesn't have a feat to his name that puts him above Jonn.....

It pisses me off. I would've thought that you would have liked the fact that it ranks Jonn > Captain Atom... sly

Where did you find this info Leo?

Anyone could probably take exception with many aspects of a list of that size. But it's a lot better than I could do, so I have a hard time justifying too much negativity towards it. You could do a lot worse for DC hierarchy, and it seems logical enough in most parts, even though there's minor problems in many places.

My only problem is that Batman with prep isn't listed in this category:

Tier 1 -
durfist

Batman and Joker aren't upper street level. What is it with D.C and Batman? They think he's more than what he is.

Blue Beetle Jamie Reyes' armor was created to battle Green Lanterns so forget about being upper street level.

Originally posted by Badabing
Where did you find this info Leo?

good question . . .

comicvine, maybe . . .?

honestly, researching for the tourney i've been to so many sites i can't keep 'em straight!

i didn't say it was a PERFECT list -- just . . . not a terrible one.

Why are Mxy and Bat-mite so far down?

this list looks real solid only a ninny noodled knit picker will express "negativity"...however there is no f ****ing way that hercules is below superman, wonder woman and the higher ups in the marvel family tree.. especially since said f ****ers got thier strength from him.. also no disrespect to fernus and sun dipped superman but Takion is way above them...

one last thing, there is no f ****ing way that despero is in the same tier as Onimar Syn...THEEEEE F ****ING ONIMAR SYN?!?! LEX LUHTOR HIGHER THAN HERCULES?!?! AND LOBO IS 2ND TIER?!?

Impulse midtier? ok

Originally posted by leonidas
found this browsing around. not too sure how accuarate, but doesn't seem TOO bad. better than some lists i've seen . . .



I missed out on all the Marvel cosmic geek stuff but I'll have a go at this later. There seems to be a few inaccuracies.

The first bit involves msotly vertigo characters so Im not too sure.

Originally posted by leonidas


- Tier 4 - :

Anti-Monitor (full form)/ Ultimator/10th Dimensional Beings/ Hyperman

The Endless Death

The Witching Hour

Id have all the Endless WAY above Anti Montitor as they are really metaphysical notions that sometimes take physical form. The question is, can u kill a concept ? Decarte and Kahnt would suggest you cant.

Originally posted by leonidas
- Tier 5 - :

Spectre (Fully powered) Parallax/ Parallax Entity/ Ion (Original)/ The Anti-Life Entity/ The Ecrus/ Shattered Gods/ The Warlogog/ The A/ Captain Atom (the one that created a universe)/ Kismet (if you want to go by JLA/Avengers)/ Carnivore/ Genesis Box/ Una, the Cosmic Worm of Heaven and Hell/ Maaldor (Universe)

Id have Spectre WAY above this level, as he was abled to stalemate the Anti Monitor and Parallax on his own accord. With the power of God he probably above the Endless. Id put the fully powered Anti monitor in this category as well. Ion and co definitely dont deserve to be at this level. And all the Warlogog is basically the infinity Gaunlet, its limits have yet to really be tested.

Originally posted by leonidas
- Tier 6 - :

The Endless Destiny/ Dream/ Destruction/ Desire/ Despair/ Dellirium/

Decreator/ Godwave

Hell Lords inside their own realm Neron/ Trigon/ Neron/ Satannish/ Satanus/ Azmodus/ Shaitan/ Eclipso/ Satan/ King of Tears/ Koth Sugoth/

- Tier 7 - :

There so much wrong with this i dont want to get started.

Originally posted by leonidas
Spectre (High powered)/ Eclipso, Wrath of God (High powered)/ Time Trapper/ Infinite Man/ Archangel Gabriel

- Tier 8 - :

The 5th Dimensional Imps

Known 5th Dimensiona Imps Mr. Mxyzptlk/ Lkz/ Yz/ Bat-Mite/ Qwisp

The Great Tree

- Tier 9 - :

Spectre (average)/ The Lurker/ Entropy (Krona)/ The Word/ Imperiex/ Brainiac 13/ Abraxus/ Promethian Giants/ Quantum Mechanics/ Black Racer/ Black Flash/ Kulak/ Mystos/ Shadrack/ Hellion/ Eclipso - Wrath of God (average)/ Spear of Destiny/ Superman Prime

Lords of Order -Lord Kilderkin / -J'akk / -Kismet / -Nabu: Nabu the Wise / -Pantagones / -Shatru/ -St'ann / -Terataya / -Ynar /

Lords of Chaos -Child/ -Gorrum/ -Hytuurnus / -Mordru / -M'Shulla/ -Nabu: Nabu the Wise / -Shivering Jemmy / -T'Charr / -The Weaver / -The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers / -The five original Lords of Chaos (Appeared in Grant Morrison's and later Ann Nocienti's Kid Eternity series - #:Chaos is viewed as a good force here)/ -Typhon/ -Vandaemon / -Zanadu the Chaos Maker

Stigmonus Monsiur



These tow levels need to be mixed about a bit, and some need to be releagted entirely; the Melinium Giants, Mordru, the Black Racer, Time Ttrapper and Eclipso all need to be relegated.

Where the hell is Mageddon on this list? He should at least be tier 5 or 6.

Seems well thought out, for the most part. Personally, though, I like things simpler, maybe no more than 5 levels.

Originally posted by leonidas
found this browsing around. not too sure how accuarate, but doesn't seem TOO bad. better than some lists i've seen . . .

Tier 1 - :

The Presence/Rama Kushna/Meshta

- Tier 2 - :

The Ultimate Darkness/ The Ultimate Light/ The Source/

- Tier 3 - :

Lucifer Morningstar / Archangel Michael/ Elaine

- Tier 4 - :

Anti-Monitor (full form)/ Ultimator/10th Dimensional Beings/ Hyperman

The Endless Death

The Witching Hour

- Tier 5 - :

Spectre (Fully powered) Parallax/ Parallax Entity/ Ion (Original)/ The Anti-Life Entity/ The Ecrus/ Shattered Gods/ The Warlogog/ The A/ Captain Atom (the one that created a universe)/ Kismet (if you want to go by JLA/Avengers)/ Carnivore/ Genesis Box/ Una, the Cosmic Worm of Heaven and Hell/ Maaldor (Universe)



It's a good list...of course people will have different views. Mine is just that characters like The Word and Phantom Stranger plus The Wizard Shazam should be somewhere in Tier 5. The Word is almost like The Spectre except we don't see much of him...PS is very underrated and the limits of this powers are still unknown...The Wizard practically is the overlord of Magic.

Overmaster IMO should be in Tier 11.

Originally posted by Validus
Blue Beetle Jamie Reyes' armor was created to battle Green Lanterns so forget about being upper street level. Yeah, he was going at it with New Gods a couple issues ago.
The kid is powerful.

Who are Rama Kushna and Meshta?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Who are Rama Kushna and Meshta? Rama Kushna is the God that Deadman works for. Seems to just be his interpretation of The Presence from what I've read.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's a good list...of course people will have different views. Mine is just that characters like The Word and Phantom Stranger plus The Wizard Shazam should be somewhere in Tier 5. The Word is almost like The Spectre except we don't see much of him...PS is very underrated and the limits of this powers are still unknown...The Wizard practically is the overlord of Magic.

Overmaster IMO should be in Tier 11.

Shazam tier 5.

Agreeing with Wrath, The Word should be in tier 3. Imperiex should be in Tier 4. Maggedon should also be up one. Alright list though.

Tier 0 - Superman Prime

Originally posted by masterbruce
Tier 0 - Superman Prime

. . .

wheres starfire on the list?

Originally posted by leonidas

Tier 1 - :

The Presence/Rama Kushna/Meshta

Rama Kushna and Meshta? Tier 1? Higher than The Source?

I doubt it.

AFAIK, Rama Kushna is just a minor DC goddess from the Himalayas. Same as Meshta, he's nothing more but a minor god.
Unless someone can prove otherwise.

phantom stranger equal to a fully powered spectre?
no way...

Here's my list (feel free to criticize it if you feel I'm mistaken anywhere):

Tier 0- Unquantifiable/Meta-Being
-Primal Monitor (the reader/writer)

Tier 1- Supreme Being
-The Presence

Tier 2-Nigh Omnipotent
-Great Evil Beast
-Elaine
-Cosmic Armor Superman
-Mandrakk (Novu)
-Monitors (True Potential)

Tier 3-Omniversal Abstract
-Full Power Mxyzptlk (WF)
-Ultimator
-Full Power Spectre
-Lucifer Morningstar/Michael Demiurgos

Tier 4-High End Abstract
-The Source
-The Endless
-Emperor Joker

Tier 5-Mid Abstract
-Mandrakk (Ogama)
-Nekron
-5D Imps (sans Mxy and Batmite)
-Full Power Anti-Monitor
-Darkseid (True Spiritual Form)
-Maggedon

Tier 6- Low Abstracts
-Spectre (High Showings)
-King of Tears (Inside of his Realm)
-Hell Lords Inside of their Realms
-New Gods (true manifestations)
-Imperiex
-Ion (Original)
-Parallax

Tier 7- Semi-Abstracts
-Spectre (Average non-jobbing)
-Captain Marvel (DOV)
-Quintessence (Combined power)
-Gog
-Yuga Khan
-Monarch (Post Arena)
-Neron (outside of Realm)
-Trigon (Classic, outside of his realm)
-Nabu
-Superman One Million

Tier 8- Elder God/Supra-Skyfathers
-PC Darkseid
-Mordru (High Showings)
-Time Trapper
-Monitors
-Thunderbolt
-Phantom Stranger (Implied power)
-DOV Spectre
-Guardians of the Universe (Implied)
-Shazam in the ROE
-Starro
-Starbreaker

Tier 9- Skyfathers
-Zeus
-Ganthet
-Shazam
-Highfather
-Darkseid (high showings)
-Phantom Stranger (demonstrated power)
-Takion/Stayne
-Guardian Amped Prime
-Jobbing Spectre
-Mordru (JSA)

Tier 10- Low Skyfathers/Multi-Team Wreckers
-Superboy-Prime
-PC Superman
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson, highest showings)
-Guardians of the Universe (going by actual showings)
-Ares
-Infinity Man (Average)
-Circe
-Asmodel

Tier 11- Sub-Skyfathers
-Darkseid (average Post Crisis showings)
-Sundipped Superman (OWAW)

Tier 12- Team Wreckers
-Despero (High end)
-WW3 Black Adam
-H/P Doomsday
-The General/Shaggy-Man
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
-Zoom
-E2 Superman (Infinite Crisis)
-Waverider
-Firestorm
-Ring Mongul
-KC Superman

Tier 13- Top Tier Super
-Darkseid (jobbing)
-Doomsday (Average)
-Despero (Average)
-Superman
-Elite Lanterns
-Flash (Wally)
-Martian Manhunter
-Wonder Woman
-Zatanna
-Supergirl
-Power Girl
-Solomon Grundy (high showings)
-Bizarro
-Etrigan
-Lobo
-Captain Marvel
-Black Adam
-Forerunner
-Orion
-Grayven

Tier 14- Mid Tier Super
-Captain Atom
-Average Lantern
-Red Tornado
-Captain Comet
-Donna Troy
-Superboy (Kon-El)
-Aquaman (High Showings)
-Lightray
-Kalibak
-Lex Luthor (In Suit)

Tier 15- Low Tier Super
-Cheetah (Minerva)
-Starfire
-Beast Boy
-Terra
-Bombshell
-Fodder Lanterns
-Gorilla Grodd
-Dr Light
-Aquaman (Low showings)
-Steel
-Booster Gold
-Blue Beetle (Jamie)
-Black Lightning

Tier 16- High End Meta
-Clayface
-Hawkman
-Rocket Reds
-Flash Rouges (Average power level)

Tier 17- Mid Metas
-Killer Croc
-Maxwell Lord
-Black Canary
-Mr Freeze
-Snapper Carr (FC)

Tier 18- Low Metas
-Bane (Venom)
-Deathstroke

Tier 19- Elite Streetlevelers
-Lady Shiva
-Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)
-Batman (full Gear)
-Cheshire
-Vandal Savage
-R'as Al Ghul

Tier 20- Streetlevelers
-Nightwing
-Batwoman
-The Question (Sage)
-Catman
-Deadshot
-Red Robin
-Green Arrow

Tier 21- Low Streetlevelers
-The Joker
-The Riddler
-Human Flame (Pre Enhancement)
-Dan Turpin
-Black Mask

Forerunner and Firestorm both seem far too high to me.

I'm sure there's more, but then this will turn into the tiers thread again.

People like to focus on what they see wrong. Chances are about 80-90% of that list is excellent. But with so many characters there will inevitably be many problems. Personally I like it...I don't know a ton about some of the cosmic stuff, and this seems like a decent gauge.

I was going to complain about Sun-dipped Superman being above The Doctor. But the Doctor is where he belongs. It's SD Supes that's too high, along with a couple others in his same tier. He's not above the likes of Onimar Synn, for example.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Here's my list (feel free to criticize it if you feel I'm mistaken anywhere):

Tier 0- Unquantifiable/Meta-Being
-Primal Monitor (the reader/writer)

Tier 1- Supreme Being
-The Presence

Tier 2-Nigh Omnipotent
-Great Evil Beast
-Elaine
-Cosmic Armor Superman
-Mandrakk (Novu)
-Monitors (True Potential)

Tier 3-Omniversal Abstract
-Full Power Mxyzptlk (WF)
-Ultimator
-Full Power Spectre
-Lucifer Morningstar/Michael Demiurgos

Tier 4-High End Abstract
-The Source
-The Endless
-Emperor Joker

Tier 5-Mid Abstract
-Mandrakk (Ogama)
-Nekron
-5D Imps (sans Mxy and Batmite)
-Full Power Anti-Monitor
-Darkseid (True Spiritual Form)
-Maggedon

Tier 6- Low Abstracts
-Spectre (High Showings)
-King of Tears (Inside of his Realm)
-Hell Lords Inside of their Realms
-New Gods (true manifestations)
-Imperiex
-Ion (Original)
-Parallax

Tier 7- Semi-Abstracts
-Spectre (Average non-jobbing)
-Captain Marvel (DOV)
-Quintessence (Combined power)
-Gog
-Yuga Khan
-Monarch (Post Arena)
-Neron (outside of Realm)
-Trigon (Classic, outside of his realm)
-Nabu
-Superman One Million

Tier 8- Elder God/Supra-Skyfathers
-PC Darkseid
-Mordru (High Showings)
-Time Trapper
-Monitors
-Thunderbolt
-Phantom Stranger (Implied power)
-DOV Spectre
-Guardians of the Universe (Implied)
-Shazam in the ROE
-Starro
-Starbreaker

Tier 9- Skyfathers
-Zeus
-Ganthet
-Shazam
-Highfather
-Darkseid (high showings)
-Phantom Stranger (demonstrated power)
-Takion/Stayne
-Guardian Amped Prime
-Jobbing Spectre
-Mordru (JSA)

Tier 10- Low Skyfathers/Multi-Team Wreckers
-Superboy-Prime
-PC Superman
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson, highest showings)
-Guardians of the Universe (going by actual showings)
-Ares
-Infinity Man (Average)
-Circe
-Asmodel

Tier 11- Sub-Skyfathers
-Darkseid (average Post Crisis showings)
-Sundipped Superman (OWAW)

Tier 12- Team Wreckers
-Despero (High end)
-WW3 Black Adam
-H/P Doomsday
-The General/Shaggy-Man
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
-Zoom
-E2 Superman (Infinite Crisis)
-Waverider
-Firestorm
-Ring Mongul
-KC Superman

Tier 13- Top Tier Super
-Darkseid (jobbing)
-Doomsday (Average)
-Despero (Average)
-Superman
-Elite Lanterns
-Flash (Wally)
-Martian Manhunter
-Wonder Woman
-Zatanna
-Supergirl
-Power Girl
-Solomon Grundy (high showings)
-Bizarro
-Etrigan
-Lobo
-Captain Marvel
-Black Adam
-Forerunner
-Orion
-Grayven

Tier 14- Mid Tier Super
-Captain Atom
-Average Lantern
-Red Tornado
-Captain Comet
-Donna Troy
-Superboy (Kon-El)
-Aquaman (High Showings)
-Lightray
-Kalibak
-Lex Luthor (In Suit)

Tier 15- Low Tier Super
-Cheetah (Minerva)
-Starfire
-Beast Boy
-Terra
-Bombshell
-Fodder Lanterns
-Gorilla Grodd
-Dr Light
-Aquaman (Low showings)
-Steel
-Booster Gold
-Blue Beetle (Jamie)
-Black Lightning

Tier 16- High End Meta
-Clayface
-Hawkman
-Rocket Reds
-Flash Rouges (Average power level)

Tier 17- Mid Metas
-Killer Croc
-Maxwell Lord
-Black Canary
-Mr Freeze
-Snapper Carr (FC)

Tier 18- Low Metas
-Bane (Venom)
-Deathstroke

Tier 19- Elite Streetlevelers
-Lady Shiva
-Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)
-Batman (full Gear)
-Cheshire
-Vandal Savage
-R'as Al Ghul

Tier 20- Streetlevelers
-Nightwing
-Batwoman
-The Question (Sage)
-Catman
-Deadshot
-Red Robin
-Green Arrow

Tier 21- Low Streetlevelers
-The Joker
-The Riddler
-Human Flame (Pre Enhancement)
-Dan Turpin
-Black Mask

nice...

Originally posted by Warlord
nice...
Looking back over it now I realize there are some major goofs. The Rocket Reds should be higher, Nabu should probably be one tier lower, and Firestorm should probably be in the Top Tier class.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
, Nabu should probably be one tier lower, and Firestorm should probably be in the Top Tier class.

agreed

Nice list, though missing a few beings Archangel Gabriel, The Word. Must be noted that Lucifer is flying around in the void aka the overvoid trying to impose his will on it, something Mandrakk couldn't do. Also The Source is also the void taken form.

Originally posted by kevdude
Nice list, though missing a few beings Archangel Gabriel, The Word. Must be noted that Lucifer is flying around in the void aka the overvoid trying to impose his will on it, something Mandrakk couldn't do. Also The Source is also the void taken form.
I left out certain beings because I was uncertain of their placement (God-Thing and the Word for instance).

Isn't the Presence omnipotent? So how is the PM more powerful than him? and I think Imperiex should be placed lower, but what do I know.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Isn't the Presence omnipotent? So how is the PM more powerful than him? and I think Imperiex should be placed lower, but what do I know.
The PM is outside of the Presence's Creation. The Presence is just the largest germ to the PM. As for Imperiex he was pretty high on the totem pole, he had the power of an entire Universe (the Big Bang) putting him on Eternity level arguably.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The PM is outside of the Presence's Creation. The Presence is just the largest germ to the PM. As for Imperiex he was pretty high on the totem pole, he had the power of an entire Universe (the Big Bang) putting him on Eternity level arguably.

So the Presence isn't omnipotent then? cause it's impossible to be above an omnipotent in terms of power(or anything).

As for Imperiex, he should be the equivalent of Entropy in marvel IMO, still a bit below Eternity.

Originally posted by galactusischere
So the Presence isn't omnipotent then? cause it's impossible to be above an omnipotent in terms of power(or anything).

As for Imperiex, he should be the equivalent of Entropy in marvel IMO, still a bit below Eternity.
IG makes you omnipotent, yet LT, HOTU, TOAA and The other TOAA are above it.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
IG makes you omnipotent, yet LT, HOTU, TOAA and The other TOAA are above it.

IG doesn't make you completely omnipotent

Omnipotent is a joke in comic books.

Originally posted by TheTyrant

IG doesn't make you completely omnipotent
Actually the IG does make the wielder omnipotent.

But there are different levels of omnipotence in Marvel.

In Marvel,
once you can re-arrange reality on a cosmic scale (universal at-least)
you're omnipotent, because even universes in Marvel are infinite.

So, then, it's a question of scale, and/or confrontation between infinite powers.

Personally, I'd place Wally the God Boy and YHWH in Tier 1.

YHWH was basically the personification of The Presence in Vertigo.
Wally the God Boy looked like a young YHWH.

Originally posted by galactusischere
So the Presence isn't omnipotent then? cause it's impossible to be above an omnipotent in terms of power(or anything).

As for Imperiex, he should be the equivalent of Entropy in marvel IMO, still a bit below Eternity.
He is omnipotent within His creation, but outside of his creation the PM reigns supreme. You can be the God of a comic book but you're still outranked by the guy who's reading or writing it (the PM).

As for Imperiex I don't think you could put him any higher or lower without drawing some flack. He's not a Mid-Abstract and he's above guys like Monarch and Neron. Of course he's at the lower rung of Low Abstract.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He is omnipotent within His creation, but outside of his creation the PM reigns supreme. You can be the God of a comic book but you're still outranked by the guy who's reading or writing it (the PM).


Makes sense.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Makes sense.
In Gaiman's Lucifer the Presence admits that there are outside forces shaping him (the Primal Monitor and/or the Monitors)

Originally posted by Omega Vision
In Gaiman's Lucifer the Presence admits that there are outside forces shaping him (the Primal Monitor and/or the Monitors)

So are ALL monitors capable of Mandrakk I's feat(nearly eating all DCU including the 5th dimension)?

Originally posted by galactusischere
So are ALL monitors capable of Mandrakk I's feat(nearly eating all DCU including the 5th dimension)?
It seems that way. Keep in mind that saying all Monitors can do what Mandrakk did and become like him is like saying all humans can be Batman.

DC cosmology makes me

blowup

Originally posted by Omega Vision

Tier 0- Unquantifiable/Meta-Being
-Primal Monitor (the reader/writer)

Tier 1- Supreme Being
-The Presence

Tier 2-Nigh Omnipotent
-Great Evil Beast
-Elaine
-Cosmic Armor Superman
-Mandrakk (Novu)
-Monitors (True Potential)

Tier 3-Omniversal Abstract
-Full Power Mxyzptlk (WF)
-Ultimator
-Full Power Spectre
-Lucifer Morningstar/Michael Demiurgos
-The Word
-God-Thing

Tier 4-High End Abstract
-The Source
-The Endless
-Emperor Joker

Tier 5-Mid Abstract
-Mandrakk (Ogama)
-Nekron
-5D Imps (sans Mxy and Batmite)
-Full Power Anti-Monitor
-Darkseid (True Spiritual Form)
-Maggedon
-Life Entity
-Krona (JLA/Avengers)

Tier 6- Low Abstracts
-Spectre (High Showings)
-King of Tears (Inside of his Realm)
-Hell Lords Inside of their Realms
-New Gods (true manifestations)
-Imperiex
-Ion (Original)
-Parallax (ZH)
-Lords of Chaos and Order (as a whole)
-Superman Prime (Implied power)
-Ares with Godwave
-Monitor (COIE)

Tier 7- Semi-Abstracts
-Spectre (Average non-jobbing)
-Captain Marvel (DOV)
-Quintessence (Combined power)
-Gog
-Yuga Khan
-Monarch (Post Arena)
-Neron (outside of Realm)
-Trigon (Classic, outside of his realm)
-Superman One Million
-SCW Anti-Monitor

Tier 8- Elder God/Supra-Skyfathers
-PC Darkseid
-Nabu
-Mordru (High Showings)
-Time Trapper
-Monitors
-Thunderbolt
-Phantom Stranger (Implied power)
-DOV Spectre
-Guardians of the Universe (Implied)
-Shazam in the ROE
-Starro
-Starbreaker

Tier 9- Skyfathers
-Zeus
-Ganthet
-Shazam
-Highfather
-Darkseid (high showings)
-Phantom Stranger (demonstrated power)
-Takion/Stayne
-Guardian Amped Prime
-Jobbing Spectre
-Mordru (JSA)
-Blaze and Satanus (together outside of their realm, pre-RIH)
-Chris Kent (Countdown: Arena)

Tier 10- Low Skyfathers/Multi-Team Wreckers
-Superboy-Prime
-PC Superman
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson, highest showings)
-Guardians of the Universe (going by actual showings)
-Ares
-Infinity Man (Average)
-Circe
-Asmodel
-PC Mongul

Tier 11- Sub-Skyfathers
-Darkseid (average Post Crisis showings)
-Sundipped Superman (OWAW)
-Larfleeze (full power)

Tier 12- Team Wreckers
-Despero (High end)
-WW3 Black Adam
-H/P Doomsday
-The General/Shaggy-Man
-Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
-Zoom
-E2 Superman (Infinite Crisis)
-Waverider
-Ring Mongul
-KC Superman
-Cyborg Superman
-Brimstone

Tier 13- Top Tier Super
-Darkseid (jobbing)
-Doomsday (Average)
-Despero (Average)
-Superman
-Elite Lanterns
-Flash (Wally)
-Martian Manhunter
-Wonder Woman
-Zatanna
-Supergirl
-Power Girl
-Solomon Grundy (high showings)
-Bizarro
-Etrigan
-Lobo
-Captain Marvel
-Black Adam
-Orion
-Grayven
-Firestorm
-Mongul Jr

Tier 14- Mid Tier Super
-Captain Atom
-Individual Hyperclan Members
-Forerunner
-Average Lantern
-Red Tornado
-Captain Comet
-Donna Troy
-Superboy (Kon-El)
-Aquaman (High Showings)
-Lightray
-Kalibak
-Lex Luthor (In Suit)

Tier 15- Low Tier Super
-Cheetah (Minerva)
-Starfire
-Beast Boy
-Terra
-Bombshell
-Fodder Lanterns
-Gorilla Grodd
-Dr Light
-Aquaman (Low showings)
-Steel
-Booster Gold
-Blue Beetle (Jamie)
-Black Lightning
-Rocket Reds

Tier 16- High End Meta
-Clayface
-Hawkman
-Flash Rogues (Average power level)

Tier 17- Mid Metas
-Killer Croc
-Maxwell Lord
-Black Canary
-Mr Freeze
-Snapper Carr (FC)

Tier 18- Low Metas
-Bane (Venom)
-Deathstroke

Tier 19- Elite Streetlevelers
-Lady Shiva
-Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)
-Batman (full Gear)
-Cheshire
-Vandal Savage
-R'as Al Ghul

Tier 20- Streetlevelers
-Nightwing
-Batwoman
-The Question (Sage)
-Catman
-Deadshot
-Red Robin
-Green Arrow

Tier 21- Low Streetlevelers
-The Joker
-The Riddler
-Human Flame (Pre Enhancement)
-Dan Turpin
-Black Mask
Ironed out some mistakes and corrected some rather egregious omissions.

Your DC hierarchy with all your tiers seem pretty good to me, but why are Ion and Parallax so low? I thought they were above universal powers such as Imperiex.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Your DC hierarchy with all your tiers seem pretty good to me, but why are Ion and Parallax so low? I thought they were above universal powers such as Imperiex.
They are universal powers. I've never understood Parallax, where he draws his power from since his official bios almost invariably list his powers as possession and fear projection and that's about it. Parallax and Ion (original) could mess with most depictions of the Spectre but I don't see either hanging with the Full Power Anti-Monitor or defeating guys like Mandrakk v2.

Meh, people were saying that classic Ion could easily kill Galactus and White Phoenix. Thanks for the heads up.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Meh, people were saying that classic Ion could easily kill Galactus and White Phoenix. Thanks for the heads up.
I don't know about easily, and I don't know about 'kill' but I'd say Ion would have a pretty good shot against either of them.

its not ordered from weakest to strongest. its kinda confusing o O

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
its not ordered from weakest to strongest. its kinda confusing o O
Its strongest to weakest in terms of power, not necessarily effectiveness.

Yeah I call bullshit on Superman and other assorted bricks being more powerful than Zatanna, Catwoman being on the same tier as Shiva and Dragon, and Animal Man being on the same tier as Clayface.

edit: I almost completely agree with Omega's list. My only two suggestions are bumping Starfire and Dr. Light up one tier and putting Wonder Girl in Tier 15.

Krona BTW should be MUCH higher on Omega's list IMO. Atleast tier 3.

Originally posted by Konton
Yeah I call bullshit on Superman and other assorted bricks being more powerful than Zatanna, Catwoman being on the same tier as Shiva and Dragon, and Animal Man being on the same tier as Clayface.

edit: I almost completely agree with Omega's list. My only two suggestions are bumping Starfire and Dr. Light up one tier and putting Wonder Girl in Tier 15.
Dr Light I can definitely see your point, Starfire kinda. As for Donna Troy while she's definitely not WW's equal she isn't THAT far below Diana.
Originally posted by galactusischere
Krona BTW should be MUCH higher on Omega's list IMO. Atleast tier 3.
Nah he's definitely not above guys like EJ. At best he'd be at the lowest rung of T4.

He was IMO even above the LT.

He owned the GM with the Spear of Destiny: the Book of Eternity; the Orb of Ra; the Psycho Pirate's Medusa Mask; the Bell, Jar and Wheel of the Demons Three; and the Green Lantern Power Battery of Kyle Rayner; Ultimate Nullifier; the Evil Eye of Avalon; the Wand of Watoomb; the Casket of Ancient Winters; the Cosmic Cube; and the Infinity Gems.


That should put him faaar above Mxy.

Originally posted by galactusischere
He was IMO even above the LT.

He owned the GM with the Spear of Destiny: the Book of Eternity; the Orb of Ra; the Psycho Pirate's Medusa Mask; the Bell, Jar and Wheel of the Demons Three; and the Green Lantern Power Battery of Kyle Rayner; Ultimate Nullifier; the Evil Eye of Avalon; the Wand of Watoomb; the Casket of Ancient Winters; the Cosmic Cube; and the Infinity Gems.


That should put him faaar above Mxy.
Its not like the Grandmaster was using their powers to their fullest.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its not like the Grandmaster was using their powers to their fullest.

With the IG he would have known how to use any of the artifacts.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Dr Light I can definitely see your point, Starfire kinda. As for Donna Troy while she's definitely not WW's equal she isn't THAT far below Diana.

Nah he's definitely not above guys like EJ. At best he'd be at the lowest rung of T4.

I meant current Wonder Girl. Cassie.

Donna and Starfire are at least equal in effectiveness which is why Starfire should be up a notch. She took out Indigo's ship with one blast, shattered a mountain without going nova, carries around aircraft carriers, ftl flight, etc. A bit too much to be on Beast Boys level.

Originally posted by Konton
I meant current Wonder Girl. Cassie.

Donna and Starfire are at least equal in effectiveness which is why Starfire should be up a notch. She took out Indigo's ship with one blast, shattered a mountain without going nova, carries around aircraft carriers, ftl flight, etc. A bit too much to be on Beast Boys level.
Aircraft carriers? I guess they walked away from that "strength of ten men" estimate.

Krona, Anti-Monitor and Starfire should be bumped one tier up IMO on Omega Vision's list.

Originally posted by galactusischere

He was IMO even above the LT.
Krona got owned by Flash & Hawkeye,
and needed all the power you mentioned below to entrap Kismet and an alternate Eternity.
Originally posted by galactusischere

He owned the GM with the Spear of Destiny: the Book of Eternity; the Orb of Ra; the Psycho Pirate's Medusa Mask; the Bell, Jar and Wheel of the Demons Three; and the Green Lantern Power Battery of Kyle Rayner; Ultimate Nullifier; the Evil Eye of Avalon; the Wand of Watoomb; the Casket of Ancient Winters; the Cosmic Cube; and the Infinity Gems.
That story was riddled with pis/cis and nonsense.

Krona destroyed and absorbed the power of two alternate universes in that story,
one from the DC side and one from the Marvel,
this in combination with being connected to DC's entropy made him that powerful?

These nuts in that writer's mouth.
(to be fair, the story had fan-based outcomes,
so we can't blame the writer completely for the garbage)

Originally posted by Mr Master

These nuts in that writer's mouth.
(to be fair, the story had fan-based outcomes,
so we can't blame the writer completely for the garbage) Marvel vs DC had fanvoted outcomes, not JLA/Avengers.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Krona got owned by Flash & Hawkeye,
and needed all the power you mentioned below to entrap Kismet and an alternate Eternity.

That story was riddled with pis/cis and nonsense.

Krona destroyed and absorbed the power of two alternate universes in that story,
one from the DC side and one from the Marvel,
this in combination with being connected to DC's entropy made him that powerful?

These nuts in that writer's mouth.
(to be fair, the story had fan-based outcomes,
so we can't blame the writer completely for the garbage)

The heroes always save the day, nothing wrong with this.

It's purpose was to entertain, Comics are no science or religion. The PIS/CIS part was mostly in the Hawkeye/Flash incident, if you wish.

Where was it stated that were alternate Universes? Maybe it played in the past of Marvel? It's possible if not most likely that the writers didn't though about alternate universes, they didn't care with continuity (obviously) and wanted to pitch their heroes against each other.

Juntai already said it.

JLA/Avengers wasn't very good or good, as a matter of fact. It was average, an hasty attempt to tell a story that makes it possible to let the heroes fight against each other. The Grandmaster had to use all those artefacts to imprison Krona, so we know that he is just slightly below the combined power of those.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Krona, Anti-Monitor and Starfire should be bumped one tier up IMO on Omega Vision's list.
There's a huge difference between using an artifact for its innate power and using it for its effect. I doubt Galactus absorbing the UN gives Galactus the power to nullify and recreate a multiverse in a snap like the artifact itself is capable of. Besides the difference in power between items like the IG and the Medusa Mask is HUGE to the point that the latter doesn't even matter.

CAS and Mandrakk should be around the Abstract level right?

Originally posted by Cubey
CAS and Mandrakk should be around the Abstract level right?
Nigh Omnipotent IMO (at least for Mandrakk V1)