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Count Dooku and Mace Windu versus Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

They are all from ROTS and its only a lightsaber match(Kenobi would get pwn in the Force). The fight takes place in Geonosis execution arena.
Who wins?

I think Dooku and Mace takes it.

Although Yoda is the best combatent here, Obi-Wan is certainley the worst, and Dooku could take him out fast with the force, and Mace I guess pretty fast in saber combat. Then they both go and kill Yoda. Yoda is not capable of killing either Mace or Dooku before the other kills Obi-Wan....

This is a lightsaber match only, no Force powers allowed.

Oh, didn't see that.


Well, I don't know. I guess Kenobi could last pretty long against anyone with his Soresu, but doubt he will win any match. Yoda will win either of his, but it'll take a while as well. I don't know...

Good thread.

I'm going with Yoda and Obi Wan.

Obi Wan, with his Soresu mastery could hold off Mace for a long time, and Yoda could beat Dooku, if he was going all out, in a relatively short amount of time.

But Mace could make pretty quick work of Obi-Wan I believe, with shatterpoint and all. Dooku is still good enough to hold out for a pretty long time against Yoda....

Mace, in the ROTS Novel, spoke to Obi like they were on equal footing. Mace won't be able to draw from the darkside, because, Obi Wan is the very definition of a Jedi. Obi can handle 18 hits a second from Greivous, and can deal with a pissed Anakin, so I don't see him falling fast against the ferocity of Vaapad, and a shatterpoint will be hard to find with his unsurpassed Soresu mastery.

A good match actually.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Mace, in the ROTS Novel, spoke to Obi like they were on equal footing. Mace won't be able to draw from the darkside, because, Obi Wan is the very definition of a Jedi. Obi can handle 18 hits a second from Greivous, and can deal with a pissed Anakin, so I don't see him falling fast against the ferocity of Vaapad, and a shatterpoint will be hard to find with his unsurpassed Soresu mastery.

You just put Mace and Obi-Wan on an equal footing? You disgust me, my former Padawan.

Sorry, I accidentally voted for Mace/Dooku before I realised that it was a saber duel.

In a saber duel I side with Yoda and Kenobi. Yoda and Mace are even, imho. But in a saber duel Kenobi could beat Dooku. The ROTS script states that Dooku was unable to get through Kenobi's defenses with his saber (which is why he had to take him out with the Force). Plus later on Kenobi is nearly as strong as Vader is with a blade and Vader beat Dooku. So Kenobi would take Dooku after a LONG fight. Then he and Yoda together could take out Mace.

In saber it goes:
1. Mace/Yoda (tie)
2. Kenobi
3. Dooku

Originally posted by darthsith19
The ROTS script states that Dooku was unable to get through Kenobi's defenses with his saber (which is why he had to take him out with the Force).

That's funny, because even when using IMSDb I can't seem to find a single reference of anything that even hints to something like what you're saying. Care to prove up, and show me this copy of the script?

The only likeness I can find is in the RotS novelization, in which it states that " almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts" (Ch. 3) relatively effortlessly. Aside from that, I see nothing.



You also omitted various key information in regards to that situation:

Originally posted by Advent
1. "Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior." (Revenge of the Sith, Ch 20)

Obi-Wan knew Anakin like the back of his hand, it's quite apparent that that was the main reason he was able to last so long. While the reverse is also true, the duel would be drawn out nonetheless. Especially if you consider the below.

2. Obi-Wan's plan was to constantly give ground to the point where it would be hard to strike down your opponents, or at least, so Anakin's wrath would be "slowed down". For example, platform jumping, lava skating, and the like. Had he stayed in one general area (i.e. like on the Invisible Hand), the duel definitely would've ended sooner.

3. His Soresu must've been good in situations like the above, where Anakin cannot give full force to his attacks.

Do you think Obi-Wan will have such advantages in this scenario? I'd say not, considering the fact he knows jack shit about Count Dooku when compared to his relationship with Anakin. I mean, the circumstances of the Obi-Wan v. Anakin duel are entirely different from Dooku against Kenobi. And plus, Kenobi isn't as skilled, as strong, or as fast as Anakin is on paper.

To continue the point of #3, it's obvious that Obi-Wan doesn't need to move his footing much - if at all - to be effective. As the rest of the excerpt I posted when responding to the first quote, states he was able to block:

"...without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper" (Revenge of the Sith novel, Ch. 3)

So, it would seem that your conclusion, and support don't hold much value.

Yes, Dooku team has more votes for now.

Pretty close...can't decide.

Yes, I think Dooku would lose before Obiwan lose...

PS: Thanks God the Koon's thread is closed.

But what if Mace fights Yoda and Obi fights Dooku, who is to say they would fight always the same. And Dooku is better in lightsaber dueling then Kenobi, this is for darthsith19.
And just because someone masters a defensive form, doesn't mean his defenses are umpenetrable.

In Obi-Wan's case, his lack of speed, strength and overall skill? His simplicity? It seems Master Windu really isn't too wisdomous.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Mace, in the ROTS Novel, spoke to Obi like they were on equal footing. Mace won't be able to draw from the darkside, because, Obi Wan is the very definition of a Jedi. Obi can handle 18 hits a second from Greivous, and can deal with a pissed Anakin, so I don't see him falling fast against the ferocity of Vaapad, and a shatterpoint will be hard to find with his unsurpassed Soresu mastery.


The reason he could handle that many strikes was because he could dodge like half of them, because Grievous doesn't have the senses of a jedi and is swinging more wildly than others. (Something like that, but it says it all in the ROTS novelisation)

Yeah, Grievous is way too robotic.

Originally posted by allfg
In Obi-Wan's case, his lack of speed, strength and overall skill? His simplicity? It seems Master Windu really isn't too wisdomous.

Haha, wow.

Master Windu is an excellent swordsman, as is Yoda and Kenobi. I hate Dooku in all aspects. Team two.

Team 2. Yoda can take on Dooku while Obi takes on Mace. Mace will kill Obi, but not easy and not before Yoda kills Dooku. Then Yoda and Obi take on Mace and win.

Originally posted by allfg
In Obi-Wan's case, his lack of speed, strength and overall skill? His simplicity? It seems Master Windu really isn't too wisdomous.

He was fast enough to keep up with GG and Anakin, strong enough to compete and defeat both of the, and skillful enough to beat both of them, although Anakin should have won, and the simplicity of it is what makes it a great form.

Well, there is that...



I was laughing at the word "Widomous," though, more than him being completely wrong.

Jolly, if Obi-Wan ever decided to go on the offensive, Mace would wipe his ass with him, easily. Megaeasily. WTFpwnage, in fact. Obi-Wan would only last long due to his defense, and he'd constantly be pushed around. He has no chance of winning, however.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jolly, if Obi-Wan ever decided to go on the offensive, Mace would wipe his ass with him, easily. Megaeasily. WTFpwnage, in fact. Obi-Wan would only last long due to his defense, and he'd constantly be pushed around. He has no chance of winning, however.

Yeah, if Obi Wan went on the offensive. I have no doubt he could hold off against Mace for an extended period of time, however. And I agree, Obi can't win this one.

Did I imply that Obi Wan could have a chance on the offensive or that he would win?

Soresu is pretty much the most passive form there is, so when Mace Windu finds a shatterpoint in Obi-Wan's form (which will happen quick, Obi-Wan's defence really isn't that special, there are flaws), he'll be able to capitalise on it.

Originally posted by Riverollv
Team 2. Yoda can take on Dooku while Obi takes on Mace. Mace will kill Obi, but not easy and not before Yoda kills Dooku. Then Yoda and Obi take on Mace and win.
Agree. Dooku seems the first to fall here...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'm going with Yoda and Obi Wan.

Obi Wan, with his Soresu mastery could hold off Mace for a long time, and Yoda could beat Dooku, if he was going all out, in a relatively short amount of time.

Dooku and Mace.

Obi-Wan even with his Soresu, wouldn't be able to hold off Mace's Vapaad.
Vapaad is known as the best all-around Form for killing and Mace would basically just break through Kenobi's defense and destroy him before too long.

Yoda would probably take just a little while longer to kill Dooku.

If Yoda can kill Dooku quick enough, he could kill Mace and win the challenge.
If not, Mace would center in on Yoda and utilize his Shatterpoints against him, killing him off.


If it was just Mace against Yoda however, I'd be leaning towards Yoda, but Mace would have a small margin of possibility to defeating him through the tenant's of Vapaaad.

Actually who is the best swordman(saber to saber, exclude saber to blaster) in the movies?
It should be one of these people: Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Anakin, Obiwan, Dooku.
Vapaad is good, but not invincible...

Good enough to kill effectively.

Yes, it should be one of these people, i think Anakin.
And Yoda wouldn't easily defeat Dooku.

Dooku can quite easily hold off Yoda - especially since they dont get to use the force. Yoda's main attribute if his godly force abilities, without them he really isnt that much better than the Count.

I think Yoda is about same as Mace, then Anakin, while Dooku follows very close behind with Obiwan...

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku can quite easily hold off Yoda - especially since they dont get to use the force. Yoda's main attribute if his godly force abilities, without them he really isnt that much better than the Count.

Fanboyism! cmon, anyone here knows Yoda can beat Dooku in a saber combat easy enough. Yoda is significantly better than Anakin in saber skill, and Anakin killed Dooku without too much difficulty...

Yoda can beat Dooku in saber duel, but not pwn.

Dooku pwns Obi-wan like he did in AOTC and ROTS. Then he helps Mace fight Yoda.

Originally posted by Riverollv
Fanboyism! cmon, anyone here knows Yoda can beat Dooku in a saber combat easy enough. Yoda is significantly better than Anakin in saber skill, and Anakin killed Dooku without too much difficulty...

No, Yoda has never been significantly better with a blade. I will agree that usually he is a good notch above Dooku - but here they are stripped off their force abilities. In an straight up lightsaber battle I wouldnt rank Yoda much above Dooku.
Anakin is irrelevant. You are using an A>B>C argument which means jack.

I actually think Dooku's a better swordsman than Yoda. As flashy as Yoda's fighting style is, it was pretty useless against Dooku in AotC, and I don't buy the way DR makes it seem like Yoda's leagues above Dooku, when AotC makes it pretty clear that in lightsaber combat at least, he's not. The way I see it, if they were to enter a lightsaber battle, it would remain a stalemate until Yoda tires, at which point Dooku would finish him.

No, Yoda is above Dooku, definetly, no point in arguing canon...

Yoda has an unfair advantage given the movement factor of Ataru. Even if Yoda has the ability to beat Dooku, that doesn't necessarily make him universally better. My reasoning still stands, technically Dooku's miles above Yoda, he just lacks the skill.

Originally posted by allfg
I actually think Dooku's a better swordsman than Yoda. As flashy as Yoda's fighting style is, it was pretty useless against Dooku in AotC, and I don't buy the way DR makes it seem like Yoda's leagues above Dooku, when AotC makes it pretty clear that in lightsaber combat at least, he's not. The way I see it, if they were to enter a lightsaber battle, it would remain a stalemate until Yoda tires, at which point Dooku would finish him.

Why do you seem to always feel the need to argue with canon. You always come off as looking like a complete moron when you do. AOTC makes it pretty clear that Yoda was holding back, considering the fact that he utterly demolishes Dooku in Dark Rendezvous when he had seemingly every possible advantage on his side, and again no one gives a flying f*ck in what you do or don't "buy" canon is canon, facts are facts, and your wrong.

Bcos I can.



DR isn't canon, Tracy.



Facts are boring, so I argue with them. And what?

Dark Rendezvous isn't canon...Nebaris you are so lame. Oh and you call Sexy lame for pulling of a "Dr. Cox" from Scrubs and then you go ahead and do it yourself? What does that make you then? Huh, Becky?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
considering the fact that he utterly demolishes Dooku in Dark Rendezvous when he had seemingly every possible advantage on his side.

Really? If I recall nobody got 'demolished'. Dooku and Yoda fought, Dooku actually managed to get a hit on Yoda, and then he fled. You also seem to conveniently forget that Obi-Wan and Anakin were also there, giving Yoda a considerable advantage. "You didn't mention bringing young Skywalker", Dooku said, pointing to the holomonitor. "And Obi-Wan, too". "That changes the odds considerably".

Now im hardly saying that Dooku is better, but your blatant exaggeration annoys me. In this fight Yoda is not leagues above Dooku - because he is stripped of his force abilities, which we know is his largest asset.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
You also seem to conveniently forget that Obi-Wan and Anakin were also there, giving Yoda a considerable advantage. "You didn't mention bringing young Skywalker", Dooku said, pointing to the holomonitor. "And Obi-Wan, too". "That changes the odds considerably"

And the quote continued: "...There's your Wonder Boy now, fighting the assassin droids I have standing sentry duty at the front door".

Clearly you you're just posting random excerpts that you think will somehow sway the view of others, or actually change something. Here's a hint: they won't. Obi-Wan and Anakin were busy, so they couldn't interfere with the duel at hand, anyways. In their one on one battle, those two had no effect whatsoever. On top of that, when speaking to Yoda, Dooku mentions that:

"I have at my command servants and droids and great powers of my own that I think would overwhelm even you. It is possible that at a single word, I could have you killed." (Dark Rendezvous, Ch. 11).

Oh yes, that's not a 'considerable advantage' at all. Please, fool, Dooku's outside advantages far outweigh Yoda's own (not that he had any to begin with).

Furthermore, Dooku also had the benefit of fighting on a planet that was immersed in the dark side ("but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible-wickedness cut in red light.", which naturally gives him more power than he would've originally had. Plus, Yoda also had to play wide receiver with Whirry, and Dooku capitalized on such a distraction; yet still couldn't kill him. Even during the duel, he wasn't nearly combating Dooku with all he had, as he states himself that he doesn't want to hurt him. Nonetheless, it's apparent that Yoda was still the superior figure in that duel through various quotes.

Edit:

And I'm not arguing that Yoda 'demolished' Dooku, or anything of the sort; merely pointing out that the circumstances were beneficial to Dooku.

Originally posted by allfg
Yoda has an unfair advantage given the movement factor of Ataru. Even if Yoda has the ability to beat Dooku, that doesn't necessarily make him universally better. My reasoning still stands, technically Dooku's miles above Yoda, he just lacks the skill.

SO Yoda had an unfair advantage from learning and mastering a certain form? What?

So Dooku's miles above Yoda, he just doesn't have the "skills"...well aren't skills what makes you better than someone, let alone miles above? Since people always cling to Dooku's experience level, here's one for you -- Dooku has slightly less than a TENTH of Yoda's experience, so miles above -- i don't think so.

And how would Yoda tired first? Just curious on that one.

I agree that Yoda is better then Dooku, but he is not leagues above the Count.

In terms of who's the better overall duelist, you have to take into consideration that Ataru is strong against Makashi. What I'm saying is that even if Yoda can beat him, that doesn't necessarily make him the better duelist, as you have to take into consideration that he has an advantage against Dooku.



Clearly you need to learn how to read. What I was saying was that in pure technique, Dooku is miles ahead of Yoda, however Yoda's speed and general skill bridges the gap between them.



Experience is great and all, but means little when you're out of practise. Yoda was very out of practise.



His style uses up way too much energy, whereas Dooku's conserves it.

Yoda can beat Dooku but cannot pwn Dooku.

Originally posted by vader11
Yoda can beat Dooku but cannot pwn Dooku.

Yes Yoda can. Why did Dooku die so easily against Anaikn in Revenge of the Sith, if Dooku is all that?

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Yes Yoda can. Why did Dooku die so easily against Anaikn in Revenge of the Sith, if Dooku is all that?
I think that has been explained many times...

Originally posted by vader11
Yoda can beat Dooku but cannot pwn Dooku.


Yes he could, if he can beat Dooku while half trying, distracted, and trying to turn him all the while Dooku has every possible advantage on his side short of Yoda having his hands and feet handcuffed together, that if Yoda fought seriously with Dooku he'd destroy him.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yes he could, if he can beat Dooku while half trying, distracted, and trying to turn him all the while Dooku has every possible advantage on his side short of Yoda having his hands and feet handcuffed together, that if Yoda fought seriously with Dooku he'd destroy him.
No he couldn't. When did Yoda beat Dooku while half trying?
Yoda is just half to 1 level higher than Dooku in saber.
Anyone can explain further?(I know there are )

Yes, kiddo he could.




Read the damn topic genius, we've said this multiple times now.



No one gives a shit about Nick Gillards "saber levels"



Learn to read.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yes, kiddo he could.

Read the damn topic genius, we've said this multiple times now.

No one gives a shit about Nick Gillards "saber levels"

Learn to read.
No no no, he couldn't
All the things you said are just useless, no points. At least provide some facts or examples.

Originally posted by Advent

And I'm not arguing that Yoda 'demolished' Dooku, or anything of the sort; merely pointing out that the circumstances were beneficial to Dooku.

Good, then there is nothing to argue. My original point was that Yoda did not 'demolish' Dooku as AC put it.

Dooku's assassin droids did not intefere - but in fairness neither did Obi-Wan and Anakin. So they cancel each other out. The only real advantage Dooku had was being on Vjun. True, Yoda did not want to kill Dooku, but in retrospect it is heavily implied that Dooku did not want to kill Yoda.

Also note that Yoda was not fighting Dooku while holding on to Whirry with the force. Yoda laid her on the ground outside after the Counts first strike, so again this cannot be seen as a disadvantage on Yoda's part.

While I will agree that Yoda was winning the duel, he was not as heavily disadvantaged as has been implied and he certainly didnt demolish the Count.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Good, then there is nothing to argue. My original point was that Yoda did not 'demolish' Dooku as AC put it.

Dooku's assassin droids did not intefere - but in fairness neither did Obi-Wan and Anakin. So they cancel each other out. The only real advantage Dooku had was being on Vjun. True, Yoda did not want to kill Dooku, but in retrospect it is heavily implied that Dooku did not want to kill Yoda.

Also note that Yoda was not fighting Dooku while holding on to Whirry with the force. Yoda laid her on the ground outside after the Counts first strike, so again this cannot be seen as a disadvantage on Yoda's part.

While I will agree that Yoda was winning the duel, he was not as heavily disadvantaged as has been implied and he certainly didnt demolish the Count.
Agree. Yoda couldn't pwn Dooku in a saber duel...

Originally posted by vader11
No no no, he couldn't
All the things you said are just useless, no points. At least provide some facts or examples.


You've worn on my patience, I did you damn retard, as did Advent, learn to read little guy. I think we have our newest candidate for:

www.hop.com/

You should really go to this site I think it'll help out with your "condition".

And I could type out a long response addressing every how Yoda would absolutely destroy Dooku, but it would be redundant my few sentences do just the same and quite frankly your hardly worth the very little brain activity it would take to rip you apart.



That doesn't say Dooku wouldn't get shitted on by a serious Yoda, Jesus Christ just close your account dip shit.

I might have embellished it a tad




Again I did embellish it but are you seriously going to sit here and say Yoda wouldn't destroy Dooku in a "serious" saber fight.

Yoda has no advantage as far as form goes against Dooku. Dooku knows all about Ataru and it's "Ridiculous acrobatics." He knows Yoda's form inside and out, and still got crushed. Also, it's not just DR, allfg, read the AOTC Novelization (or at least the Dooku vs. Yoda fight).

Please, Rampant, go back into the woodwork from whence you came, your idiocy really isn't needed.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Good, then there is nothing to argue.

No, there is. Your post seemingly insinuates that Yoda had the upper hand in the duel, because of outside assistance - or at least, that he had some type of 'advantage' on his side. Saying such things like that, even to go so far as to call it a "considerable advantage" wasn't the case, as much is apparent through my post.

It's obvious you, like always, were trying to defend the Count with ridiculous comments, and hints. I also find it comedic at best when you said that Styles had "conveniently forgotten" about the aforementioned excerpt, when you yourself left out several essential details. Including the below facts.



I really don't care what point you were trying to make, as that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact you tried to pass off your bullshit as something meaningful, as you did.



Thanks for missing the entire point, Ox! I'd suggest you take my initial advice.

What does the fact that Tyranus' droids hadn't caused any disturbance during their duel have to do with anything? Oh? What's that? It doesn't?

Now, your first post suggested that somehow the 'Wonderboy', and his master effected the duel in some way. It clearly didn't. Anakin, and Obi-Wan had zero impact on the battle, so why did you bring it up? And, I was making the point that like I said, Tyranus had far more beneficial factors on his side, anyways; also that you obviously didn't read the book.

I'm glad you can indirectly acknowledge your error partially, but get with the program, nothing has changed - inanity still doesn't fly around these parts.



Can you show me a quote to back this up? I don't recall that, not saying it isn't true; but proof? It's rather suspicious saying that a Dark Lord of the Sith wouldn't want to kill his former mentor, even though he had no reason for him to be alive.



You're right, he wasn't fighting Dooku, Dooku was fighting him. If you actually read the book, or could comprehend simple, and complex sentences, you'd realize that the Count had struck him while he was trying to save Whirry. He didn't have a chance to attack back, as his lightsaber wasn't even drawn, and he was focused on the heavy set woman.

So, if having your opponent somewhat wounded in battle (Yoda had been in pain, as he outright states) isn't an 'advantage', then what is? Causing a distraction that can be capitalized on by the opposition is an unfavorable circumstance in itself. It was a disadvantage because of the outcome.



See above, yes it is. Simply because you don't know what you're talking about means jack shit.



Wounded? Check. Outnumbered? Check. Enhanced power? Check.

I didn't say he that all of those factors were detracting from his chances in the duel at hand (though, two of them were), but the whole Jedi as backup ordeal - that you needlessly brought up in an effort to make it seem as if it mattered - wasn't comparative to the outside benefits (droids).

Oh how I wish Advent was a Bane fan.

Originally posted by allfg
Oh how I wish Advent was a Bane fan.

That's what makes you so lame. You try to twist logic and everyone has to be a fan. You can't just work with canon and see what makes sense. No, you have to gear it for your favorite character to win. I don't think you realize that you're worse than pretty much everyone here, as far as putting a character (Bane) on a pedestal.

Outnumbered part doesn't really matter, because the droids newer interfered, Dooku was outnumbered on Geonosis by even larger amount, but it didn't matter, because nobody interfered.
He was wounded, but when he saved the women and drew out his lightsaber, the wound didn't cause him any problems with his fighting abilities.

And if Yoda is so much better, he wad easily defeat Dooku on Geonosis, like someone said he would demolish Dooku.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Outnumbered part doesn't really matter, because the droids newer interfered, Dooku was outnumbered on Geonosis by even larger amount, but it didn't matter, because nobody interfered.

Originally posted by Advent
What does the fact that Tyranus' droids hadn't caused any disturbance during their duel have to do with anything? Oh? What's that? It doesn't?

And, I was making the point that like I said, Tyranus had far more beneficial factors on his side, anyways.

But the whole Jedi as backup ordeal - that you needlessly brought up in an effort to make it seem as if it mattered - wasn't comparative to the outside benefits (droids).

Read carefully, and shut the **** up. I was bringing up the fact that even if Anakin and Obi-Wan were available to assist, it didn't compare to what Dooku had as backup (hence, "outside". It was also, like the dumb Ox said, to cancel that out. Furthermore, if you would've read Rampant's post, you'd see that he was wrong in what he wrote, not me. So, I'd advise you to stay out of this, and go back to the Plo Koon thread, you have no place otherwise.



Do you have any proof of this?

Being in pain is detrimental to one's capabilities, whether it was acknowledged or not. Therefore, it was an added benefit that he was hurt. This is common sense, apparently you two haven't met yet.



Originally posted by Advent
And I'm not arguing that Yoda 'demolished' Dooku, or anything of the sort; merely pointing out that the circumstances were beneficial to Dooku.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yoda has no advantage as far as form goes against Dooku. Dooku knows all about Ataru and it's "Ridiculous acrobatics." He knows Yoda's form inside and out, and still got crushed. Also, it's not just DR, allfg, read the AOTC Novelization (or at least the Dooku vs. Yoda fight).
Agree. Watch AOTC again & you'll see Yoda wasn't pwning Dooku.

OK I'm going to ignore the temper tantrum, and address what I put in bold.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
That's what makes you so lame.You try to twist logic and everyone has to be a fan. You can't just work with canon and see what makes sense. No, you have to gear it for your favorite character to win. I don't think you realize that you're worse than pretty much everyone here, as far as putting a character (Bane) on a pedestal.

Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.

Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.

If Dooku was the order's BM, wouldn't he know Yoda's form as well? And if Dooku's form is the form best suited for blade to blade combat, and would be fighting Yoda with blades...then thats not much of an advantage to Yoda. And so what if his form uses more energy, he's more powerful than Dooku and could ultimately destroy Dooku in a battle before getting that tired. For a badass, Dooku sure does flee alot. Why is that if he can kick so much ass? He most likely would have fled from Anakin if he wasn't busy getting pwned.

Originally posted by allfg
OK I'm going to ignore the temper tantrum, and address what I put in bold.



Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.

Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.

Ive seen Advent argue for characters that she may not have been huge fans of and her debates are unbiased anyway.

My apologies to Advent, i hadn't read the posts from previous page, because i was lazy.
And for the pain part, Yoda is a Jedi and can channel his concentration to the battle and ignore the pain, its not like Dooku cut his arm off or something like that, he only cut him a little and when the fight was over, Yoda didn't say nothing or complain about the wound, that is as i remember from the book, the wound didn't restrict him or anything.
But i cant go to www.swtimeline.ru, its broken or something, it says something about the password-shit.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And for the pain part, Yoda is a Jedi and can channel his concentration to the battle and ignore the pain

But the damage is still there, and it has a chance of effecting the capabilities of the individual, regardless of simply pushing it aside. Although an extreme example, when Anakin's limbs were strewn across the banks of Mustafar, he didn't show any real pain, or go into shock (so, it can be assumed he used the Force to preserve himself) as par expected with a normal human being, yet he couldn't do squat, but try and crawl.



Irrelevant.

The slash given by the Count was severe enough to cause him to admit that he was in pain (and not something like getting a check up shot at the doctor, or scrapping your knee). The mere fact that Dooku's opponent had already been damaged goods means he has a greater chance of defeating it. Now, if it were a minuscule cut on the forearm, or something of the sort, then I'd say it doesn't matter, but it wasn't, IIRC.

If you remember, Obi-Wan in AotC fell to two moderate blows (one in the upper arm, and thigh), and he dropped like he was hot. There was no lopping off of limbs, or anything of the sort.



And that indicates what exactly? It doesn't have to be mentioned, he got hit twice, actually, and didn't so much as utter a word about either after the duel, nor during the second slice. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've gone unhindered in battle.



It doesn't have to be mentioned, he got hit twice, actually, and didn't so much as utter a word about either after the duel, nor during the second slice. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've gone unhindered in battle.

Originally posted by allfg
Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.

Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.

I'm saying that it shouldn't matter if they are a fan or not. Advent looks at things as they are. Wishing someone was biased towards a character seems stupid, is all.

Yes, I'm calling you lame, for your earlier comment. If by the "R" word, you mean rape, then you'd be wrong. However, it's not something to kid around or to joke about, seeing as that's inappropriate. And if anything made me cry over the Internet or on these forums, I'd probably kill myself. I'm not pathetic.

I would reiterate what Advent has just served to you; but it'd be a waste of time. I find it cute how Dooku's fanboy legion lurk in the shadows - waiting to find an opportunity to proclaim their idol's superiority over someone whom he is inferior to. Yoda has never been shown actually attacking Count Dooku with the intent to kill. I mean, really, if that were the case, he could have continued to fight Dooku off on Geonosis (the Republic was curbstomping the CIS forces anyway, and they were reaching the hangar) and either have killed him then or at least brought him into custody. The same goes for the debacle on Vjun. He could have continued to fight Dooku 'til he either killed him or the missile exploded and annihilated them both. In both respects, he has never been shown to want to kill Dooku like he wanted to kill Sidious in Revenge of the Sith.

If I'm not mistaken, Yoda told Mace in AotC that "Captured Dooku must be, or more systems he will gather to his cause" or something of that nature. Hell, in Dark Rendezvous, Yoda went to Vjun in the first place trying to dissuade Dooku from the dark path. Thus proving his priorities with Count Dooku was "capture or redeem", never to kill.

As Advent has described earlier, and as I have preached for months upon endless months, Dooku's advantages were legion. He had the armies and the resources on Vjun, including Ventress. He had the environmental advantage twofold - he knew the territory better than Yoda and the power of the Dark Side was increased on Vjun, enhancing Dooku's abilities beyond the normal state as well as quite possibly inhibiting Yoda's own. Combine that with the fact that Dooku distracted Yoda with Force-tossing a woman out of a window and then attacking Yoda - scoring a hit - he was still unable to beat him in single combat.

In fact, if you'd like to get technical, Dooku - despite his arrogance - knew that the likelihood of Yoda beating him was possible enough that he had a contingency missile placed in orbit to crash-land on that very location, just in case.

Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's superior. Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's equal. In every single way, he is weaker and lesser. Now, I'd just hate to see what an "unrestrained" Yoda (in the lieu of his fight with Sidious) would do to Count Dooku in a duel.

Use your imagination.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would reiterate what Advent has just served to you; but it'd be a waste of time. I find it cute how Dooku's fanboy legion lurk in the shadows - waiting to find an opportunity to proclaim their idol's superiority over someone whom he is inferior to. Yoda has never been shown actually attacking Count Dooku with the intent to kill. I mean, really, if that were the case, he could have continued to fight Dooku off on Geonosis (the Republic was curbstomping the CIS forces anyway, and they were reaching the hangar) and either have killed him then or at least brought him into custody. The same goes for the debacle on Vjun. He could have continued to fight Dooku 'til he either killed him or the missile exploded and annihilated them both. In both respects, he has never been shown to want to kill Dooku like he wanted to kill Sidious in Revenge of the Sith.

If I'm not mistaken, Yoda told Mace in AotC that "Captured Dooku must be, or more systems he will gather to his cause" or something of that nature. Hell, in Dark Rendezvous, Yoda went to Vjun in the first place trying to dissuade Dooku from the dark path. Thus proving his priorities with Count Dooku was "capture or redeem", never to kill.

As Advent has described earlier, and as I have preached for months upon endless months, Dooku's advantages were legion. He had the armies and the resources on Vjun, including Ventress. He had the environmental advantage twofold - he knew the territory better than Yoda and the power of the Dark Side was increased on Vjun, enhancing Dooku's abilities beyond the normal state as well as quite possibly inhibiting Yoda's own. Combine that with the fact that Dooku distracted Yoda with Force-tossing a woman out of a window and then attacking Yoda - scoring a hit - he was still unable to beat him in single combat.

In fact, if you'd like to get technical, Dooku - despite his arrogance - knew that the likelihood of Yoda beating him was possible enough that he had a contingency missile placed in orbit to crash-land on that very location, just in case.

Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's superior. Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's equal. In every single way, he is weaker and lesser. Now, I'd just hate to see what an "unrestrained" Yoda (in the lieu of his fight with Sidious) would do to Count Dooku in a duel.

Use your imagination.
Yes, Yoda would probably pwn Dooku in a all-round duel. But in a pure saber dual, Yoda couldn't pwn Dooku, but Yoda still win at last.

Luke injured Vader in their fight in ESB in the shoulder, i knew its a poor argument, Vader was so much superior to Luke back then and Vader had protection from the armor but he still yelled out pain. Luke was shoot in the hand in ROTJ on Jabbas boat and he still defeated the mercenaries, who wore allot weaker then Luke. In EU Vader goes against 8 Jedi and is severely injured, even his hand was cut of(wrist) and he still gathered enough concentration to Force grip a Jedi master that his troopers could shoot and he grabbed an object and throw it to another Jedi, trough his chest, killing him. I would post pictures from the comic, but sw.timeline.ru isn't working.
I admit that wound on Yoda was a small disadvantage, but just very small.
And this is for Gideon, i never once , not once said Dooku is better then Yoda or that he is his equal. I admitted on several occasions that Yoda is better- Yoda is better, happy.

Originally posted by vader11
Yes, Yoda would probably pwn Dooku in a all-round duel. But in a pure saber dual, Yoda couldn't pwn Dooku, but Yoda still win at last.


WTF? Since when has Yoda EVER fought Dooku without using a saber in a battle? NEVER.
When has Yoda shown to be alot superior even when not trying to hurt him? In saber combat....



@ Makashi-
Luke when his hand was cut off, he was finished, no more fighting for him.
Vader had a somewhat resistant suit to lightsabers, of course just a budge with a lightsaber won't hurt him much at all.
Luke was shot in his metal hand, thus he did not feel much pain at all.
Again, Vader had a suit. What they cut off were already cut off before, they only cut off metal parts.
And I guess you missed the part in AOTC, where Obi is only briefly TOUCHED by Dooku's blade on his leg and arm, and he goes down for the rest of the fight. That kind of wound was what Yoda sustained, yet he continued to actually beat Dooku.

Yoda, who is on par(or close) with Sidious in the force, is suppose to be much better than Dooku in the force.

He is not leagues above Dooku in the Force, but has a considerable advantage.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
He is not leagues above Dooku in the Force, but has a considerable advantage.
I don't know how much stronger, but he is still suppose to be stronger than Dooku in the force.

Of course he is, Dooku has got nothing on him and i am the biggest Dooku fan on the face of the planet, together with Rampant.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Of course he is, Dooku has got nothing on him and i am the biggest Dooku fan on the face of the planet, together with Rampant. Will Koon feel angry if you worship Dooku?

I am a Dooku fanboy, but worshiping Koon isn't fanbojism, it is common sense.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I am a Dooku fanboy, but worshiping Koon isn't fanbojism, it is common sense. ok...

Originally posted by vader11
ok...

lol, man hes jokin dont get scared

Originally posted by Riverollv
lol, man hes jokin dont get scared
I didn't say I am scared. I just don't mind he is worshipping Koon.

Originally posted by vader11
I didn't say I am scared. I just don't mind he is worshipping Koon.

Don't lie, you are shi_ing your pants, you are terrified of the grat Ploo Koon.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Don't lie, you are shi_ing your pants, you are terrified of the grat Ploo Koon. If so, I would worship him~
Only those who worship him are terrify of him

OK, Ok lets leave Ploo Koon arguments in the Ploo Koon thread, including myself.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
OK, Ok lets leave Ploo Koon arguments in the Ploo Koon thread, including myself.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
OK, Ok lets leave Ploo Koon arguments in the Ploo Koon thread, including myself.



You're gonna leave yourself in the Koon threads?

Posts about Ploo Koon.

2guns

Plo*

Now your just being silly.

You're*. Oh I'm on a roll here.

I know i am, but what are you.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I know i am, but what are you. it should be "I know you are but what am i"

Oh, i feel silly now.

Originally posted by Kadesh
it should be "I know you are but what am i"


No, cause I said something positive about myself, to which he replied "I know I am, but what are you", meaning that he was the one on the roll instead of me. So it actually was correct in this case.


Damn, I protected someone who insulted me.
Count, you're.... fat.

I am not fat, 800 pounds is normal weight, isn't it. (I don't know how much 800 pounds is, in Europe we use kilos, isn't 1kilo-2 pounds?)

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I am not fat, 800 pounds is normal weight, isn't it. (I don't know how much 800 pounds is, in Europe we use kilos, isn't 1kilo-2 pounds?) O.o your 800 kilos?

I use kg as well, I'm from Europe.


And dude, 800 pounds mean's you're very fat! Unless I'm mistaken....

This is 800 pounds according to the video. (I don't know about pounds either) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A33qisJ0lg8

I know i was joking, you said Count, you're.... fat. and i was just joking that i am that fat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A33qisJ0lg8

Hmm, se_y.

Well you are!

I know you are, but what im i?

I don't know what "I'm" you are.........................

Ok, now we are both being just silly, lets stop it an act like adults.

Why? jk

OK.