Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So, now that we've seen the trailer, I thought it might be a good idea to compare it to what we know in terms of spoilers. We might be able to piece a few tidbits together.

You want to start by pics?

You're a genius! Yes, that's a great idea Chiki

Alrighty, pics on its way.

Lets start with the compass:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5530/awelockercompassoy8.jpg

I want to hear your opinions first, savvy.

I thought the trailer didn't come out for a couple more days......

so far ive only managed to see not even half of it
DAMN YOUTUBE

*Has a hissy fit*

Well, this is the official trailer...except it's in Russian. So it's great for visuals, but not so much for words, unless of course you speak Russian.


Anywho, the first picture, Jack's compass. It tells us a few things.
One: That the compass will still play an important role in AWE.

Two: It's remarkable that in such a short time, it's gone from being stead and pointing at Elizabeth, to spining again. The compass is also meant to convey his emotional state, which to me this suggests he's very much distressed. Here is Captain Jack Sparrow, the man who has a plan for just about everything and some sort of purpose, in severe distress. That it's still spinning also shows that his feelings are not quite resolved, they're pulled in many different directions. Understandable, he's in purgatory, he went to the trouble to reveal that portion of himself that is vulnerable, his good side, and he was betrayed. So I think he's asking himself questions, was what I did worth it?

Which then I think the next scene is probably the sequence in purgatory when we see the three different portions of Jack, the boatswain, the Captain, and the Good man.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Which then I think the next scene is probably the sequence in purgatory when we see the three different portions of Jack, the boatswain, the Captain, and the Good man.

we can see the THREE different sides of jack???? did they show that on the trailor?!?!?!

3 jacks on the screen at once....oh joy of joys!!!!!!!

*dances happily!!!*

Ha, no. Wait, before I go on let me indicate that this is a SPOILER thread, meaning that there will be a lot of the plot revealed. So are you sure you want me to answer your question.


But, Chiki, what's your take on it. For them to choose the compass as the opening of the trailer, it must hold some serious significance. Also, it's important to note that even though Beckett now holds the heart of the Davy Jones, he still wants Jack's compass.

Ok, first of all sorry for the not answering quick. I was making dinner.

My question for the compass: How important will it play in this movie?

Notice on how Jack looks at his compass, then looks out with like a suspicious, mad look. And it's funnny that in the next scene, or before, we see Liz.

True, that could hold signficance. Editing is a HUGE part of film. It's similar to the sinking wedding dress scene in DMC, which then in turn, cut to Elizabeth. But, this is also a trailer, so we'll have to wait and see.

I think the compass will be hugely important. Here's why: In DMC, none of the questions surrounding the compass have been answered. Such as, how does the compass really work, where was the compass pointing to when Jack looked at it during the Kraken attack. We can infer that it was pointing to the Black Pearl, but we don't know! We were never shown, which is important.

The compass played such an integral role in creating the illusion of the triangle that it's role will share equal importance in AWE.

Also, in the leaked script, Beckett still wants the compass, despite having the heart, so there is something else that he wants, and the compass will show him how to get it. So, it's not an innocent little plot device.

I love this thread

Here's another problem with the compass: It's spinning madly.

Remember that its Davy Jones locker, it's a mid trap. He could be fighting with his inner demons. With love, hate, betrayel, etc.

His compass is symbolic of his tormented psyche. Purgatory is a place where he probably has to relive and review most of his life. Which leads to the scene where we see Jack fragmented and torn between three different versions, all of whom want different things.

Here, let me find that portion and post it:

563 FADE UP:
A WHITE HOT SUN burns in a cloudless blue sky.

564 EXT. BLACK PEARL - DAY
OMIT
to reveal Jack Sparrow.....

He makes it fast, calls up:

JACK
Boatswain! Haul the halyard! slacken braces!

PAN UP TO -- surprise! -- JACK SPARROW, a second one, in the rigging. Jack waves and calls down:

JACK (BOATSWAIN) (cont'd)
Aye, Captain! Slacken braces, men, make all! How does she lie?

ON DECK, a sailor turns: JACK SPARROW again.

JACK (cont'd)
a fair wind and a following sea!

Captain jack nods. In good spirits, he moves along the deck -- then stops and looks down. There is a problem.

JACK (CAPTAIN)
What say ye about the condition of the knot on this bow line?

JACK (BOATSWAIN)
It be proper to my eyes, sir.

As he speaks, Captian Jack tugs on the line and it unravels.

JACK (CAPTAIN) (CONT'D)
Proper? It is neither proper nor suitable, sir! It is not acceptable nor adequate. It is, in obvious fact, an abomination.

Another Jack steps forward - earnest, well-meaning.

JACK (HONEST) (CONT'D)
Begging your pardon, sir. Perhaps if you gave the man another chance --

JACK (CAPTAIN) (CONT'D)
It's that sort of thinking that got us into this mess.

Jack pulls a pistol and SHOOTS honest Jack, who goes stumbling backwards, over the rail. Jack turns back --

CLOSE ON Jack's face:

JACK (CONT'D)

You have caused us to lose speed and therefore time. Precious time, which cannot be recovered once lost. Do you understand? Aye Captain. DO YOU NOW?

Pull BACK to see that there is no one speaking to Jack, and he speaks to no one. He carries both sides of the argument. Madness in his eyes.
JACK (CONT'D)
It will have to be redone. All of it. All of it. And let this serve as a lesson to the lot of you!

PULL BACK MORE. We see the true state of the Black Pearl. Sails flat. No crew. No movement. No other Jack Sparrows. The Black Pearl sits alone in a vast desert. With Jack Sparrow, alone, raving on the deck.

JACK (CONT'D)
Look, there now, we've lost the wind! And the water's run low. How are we to complete the voyage with no wind, and no water? It's the doldrums, sir, could last for weeks. I am WELL AWARE of that fact, Quartermaster!

Jack Waves his hands at a sail, blows at it --

JACK (CONT'D)
My soul I do swear, for a breeze. A gust. A whisper. A kiss ...

656 EXT. DAVY JONES LOCKER - BLACK PEARL - DAY

Jack drops down into the sand next to the Black Pearl. Picks up a rope and pulls -- his feet dig into the sand; he goes nowhere. The rope angles up behind him to the ship. He's trying to pull it, to no avail. He slumps down.

JACK
No wind.

Aha....

There is a scene with Jack standing next to his ship, and there's another with him in a gun and blowing it.

So, the good portion of himself, wants to give the "man" or that part of him that is most human like another chance. The Captain, or the most pirate-like portion of himself doesn't want that. Hence, the spinning compass. But even though he kills the good man, he still would give his soul for a "kiss" of wind.

Ok, next picture. What have you got?

Did you guys notice that will points a gun and elizabeth turns around. Like he is threatning to shoot her. or him by the wheel of the fd. I think he is going to become the captain. for how long? i don't know. But I think he will.

The gun scene is also in the 36 page script. After they rescue Jack from purgatory, all of their motivations alter. They're united only to save Jack. Then, they stop trusting one another, and they each point a gun at one another.

WOW!! I am so excited. But what about will being a captain of the FD?

Originally posted by bina
Did you guys notice that will points a gun and elizabeth turns around. Like he is threatning to shoot her. or him by the wheel of the fd. I think he is going to become the captain. for how long? i don't know. But I think he will.

Yes, doesn't the pakage of the will action figure for AWE say so? That he becomes the captain of the FD?

Yes, Will does become the Captain of the Flying dutchman. That's been confirmed by the toys. What we're not entirely certain of is HOW he becomes Captain. I have spoilers about that, but I'm reluctant to reveal them.

Yeah but u never know. What about Bekette and Davy Jones. wHERE DO U THINK THEY STAND?

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Yes, Will does become the Captain of the Flying dutchman. That's been confirmed by the toys. What we're not entirely certain of is HOW he becomes Captain. I have spoilers about that, but I'm reluctant to reveal them.

Pwease? This is the spoiler thread .

Let me think about it for a while, and I'll get back to you. It's not that I want to torture you, but it's not necessarily my information to release. Not to mention, it's not confirmed. The spoiler is from a reliable source but that doesn't mean things haven't changed. If that makes any sense. All I can say that it is really cool, and that Will does become the Captain of the Dutchman.

Ok.

There is one pic which im having a hard time to upload.

when Jack and Liz exchange words. Jack has this grin, like in a mad way.

alright .

is that the scene with the whole it would have never worked out between us thing, chiki? cuz i remember jacks expression there being somewhat mad.

Originally posted by bina
Yeah but u never know. What about Bekette and Davy Jones. wHERE DO U THINK THEY STAND?


What do you mean? As in are they good drinking buddies? Do they braid eachother's tentacles and swap stories about American Idol...


Davy Jones and Beckett are united as far as I know, but not necessarily out of want on Jones' part. Jones works for Beckett because he has to--Beckett has the heart, which means that he controls the Dutchman and Davy. He's a reluctant partcipant in this instance. That's what I got out of what I've read.

His vestited interest is protecting his heart. To make an educated guess, I would say that Davy started his business with trading sailor's souls because he fears death in a way. Maybe it's because he has some unresolved business with a certain goddess named Calypso. So, as the stabbing of his heart would mean his demise, he's trying to get it back in any way he can, which means attacking anyone, including our heroes.

Oh, thats not all.

There is Mutroy and um...forgot the other guys name(oops) from CotBP.

And everyone is looking at Liz with that conversation with Jack.

I don't know. I do want to figure out the part where Barbosa takes out his sword on Jack? whats going on there?

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/566/52gi9.jpg

Originally posted by savvysparrow
What do you mean? As in are they good drinking buddies? Do they braid eachother's tentacles and swap stories about American Idol...

Ahh you crack me up. So, Beckett has tentacles now?

Originally posted by bina
I don't know. I do want to figure out the part where Barbosa takes out his sword on Jack? whats going on there?



According to rumor and to portions of the script, Jack does something to betray everyone in the middle of the film. My guess is that this is the scene where they find out Jack's treachery. I believe it has something to do with Jack making a deal with Beckett, hence why in the photos we've seen, Jack is seen standing on one side, then he switches side to stand with the badies.

Hey does any one have any ideas on why jack turns into barnicle face?

This is quiet funny, we are going back to the CotBP.

Liz: It wouldn't never work between us.

And Jack says something like "Keep repeating to yourself ______ something I dunno.

yes,

Liz: It would never have worked between us.
Jack: You just keep telling yourself that, love.

there seem to be quite a few things going back to COTBP

He is basicly saying that she is so indineal.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/566/52gi9.jpg


This must happen later in the film. I have 36 pages of the script, but nothing like this is included. Here are the things that are included in the script I've read along with some of the spoilers to combine to make an educated guess about what's going on.

For starters, Jack is angry with Elizabeth after he comes out of purgatory. He reveals to everyone that four people among you have tried to kill me--only one succeed."

That's the sequence when everyone looks at Elizabeth.

Later, Elizabeth discovers that her father is dead, Jack tries to reach for her shoulders to comfort her, Will gets to her first or she turns to Will. It might be a combination of the two. (I've got both versions of the script in my head.)

Will confronts Elizabeth later below deck on the Pearl about what she did to Jack, having FINALLY put two and two together. Will asks her if he can trust her, Elizabeth says that he can't.


I don't know how it is that they all part company to where Jack and Elizabeth would be alone again.

But in this scene, Jack has said something to her probably to tease her, and she's denying that she had any feelings for him. Though, there is a light hearted air about. There's not really anger, at least not that I see in the faces. It's almost challenging, i.e. similar to the curiousity sequence in DMC. I don't see so much anger in his smile, but pain.

But you're right about the callbacks to COTBP. Jack says it would never have worked between us, I'm sorry. So this is Elizabeth repeating the same line, note the ironic expression on her face. The fact that Will becomes a pirate, even though in COTBP he swore he never would is also another call back to the first film.


But what is your take on the scene, Chiki, or anybody else. I don't want to do all the talking.

This might slightly go out of subject on what you are talking about, savvysparrow. But I can't stop but thinking when Jack is fighting with Davy with the chest in his hands...I think it means something..

But I don't want to leave you hangin' without an opinoin of that scene. That confrontation could be starting with Jack looking at her, maybe.

I don't think Jack attempts to do another flicrt like the curiosity scene, but I have no idea on how it may come up with Liz saying that. I mean why? She is doing the same thing with Norrington:

Norrington:..Oh, I think you do.

Liz: I trust him thats all!

Liz is covering up her crushy feelings for Jack. Making an excuse.

Same thing with curiosity scene, she made this whole list of excuses instead of saying " I love Will" or "Im engaged"

Same thing with AWE, why couldn't she say:

Liz: Im in love with Will.

Instead she says

Liz: It will have never worked between us.

Originally posted by aelizabeth
yes,

Liz: It would never have worked between us.
Jack: You just keep telling yourself that, love.

there seem to be quite a few things going back to COTBP [/QUOTE


Interesting choice of words from Jack too. He's essentially saying, you keep telling yourself that it won't work, but I think it could, aside from the fact that he's insinuating she's in denial. Sort of a subtle way to insinuate that he cares, no?

Yeah. He does care. They HAVE to end up together. He has been through enough.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
This might slightly go out of subject on what you are talking about, savvysparrow. But I can't stop but thinking when Jack is fighting with Davy with the chest in his hands...I think it means something..


Ok, there are a ton of rumors that surround this scene. So we can try and work something out. I would imagine that this is probably the set piece, i.e. the heart of the film. This is where the major events collide.


So, the rumors go something like this. First the suspicion has been that it is not Will's story that is meant to parallel Davy Jones' but Jack's. His interest is in getting the heart. There are two different versions as to why. The first is that he's so depressed over his lack of success with Elizabeth that he decides that immortality is the most important thing in his life.

The second version is that he tries to get the heart to sacrifice himself to atone for his betrayals earlier in the film. I'm leaning more toward this one, and I'll tell you why later Chiki.

This is where the rumors start to collide, or bump heads. In one version, Jack is wounded by Davy Jones and falls from the mast. This might explain the shot where we see Elizabeth in the water, and she appears to be screaming Jack.


In the other, Jack manages to retrieve the heart and uses it for a noble purpose.

Originally posted by bina
Yeah. He does care. They HAVE to end up together. He has been through enough.


It's possible, but Will has been through quite a lot too. Keep that in mind. There are still two sides to every story. He's loved Elizabeth for eight years, tried to tell her, but kept away from her due to the infiriority of his station. He goes through hell to rescue her, finally gains her admiration, only to be denied their wedding because of his noble actions of rescuing Jack. Then, to make things worst, it appears that he has lost his only love to a man who has betrayed him.

True, but Jack has no one. Will can still have his father. Jack is lonely.

But its not about a 'couples' thing. Is about finding your soulmate. If Jack showed that he is happy just to be surrounded by strumpets and rum, then we will leave him like that.

But Jack isn't happy..he found his soulmate: Liz. And the same thing with Liz.

Originally posted by bina
True, but Jack has no one. Will can still have his father. Jack is lonely.


Perhaps, but in allowing himself to reveal the good portion of himself, he may gain something much more rewarding to heal his loneliness. And, who says that Jack is necessarily lonely?


Hehe, stay focused ladies. I'm not trying to argue on purpose, merely playing devil's advocate. We can't just assume things, no matter how much we may want them.

Let's stay on task and as much away from the J/E, W/E discussion as possible.

True. But Orlando even said that Will will have a darker side. And he does have a touch of destiny about him. So maybe he is meant to sail the seas on the FD. And maybe Liz will end up wit someone else.

Will's darker side isn't necessarily an evil one. It merely means that he learns how to play the pirate game. So he ends up setting up his friends, and his enemies to betrayal, the same way that Jack does.

His touch of destiny does involve becoming the Captain of the Dutchman, but not in the way you think it does.

i dont think Jack is lonely, and I don't know about Jack and Liz being "soulmates".... I think they are incredibly well suited, they are alike, they long for adventure and take great pleasure in being cleverer than the rest of the world. it would take only a nudge (a father dying, a loved one's betrayal) to send Elizabeth into the shadowy world of pirate morality where she no longer asserts that she has any higher morals than Jack.
at any rate, there is a connection there that i hesitate to call "soul mate" in the romantic kismet way... because it is the kind of friendship that may be deeper than all physical or romantic love, and may last longer, because at the end of the day they do trust each other, they can have an honest conversation.
A moment of true comfort and understanding can be far more powerful than a passionate kiss, in my mind.
I just don't want us to assume that for Sparrabeth to have a satisfying ending, they have to end in a romantic relationship. make sense?
and of course, according to "when harry met sally", no friends can last very long without sleeping with one another.

and just to remind everyone, the task of Captaining the FD wasn't orginally a bad deal--- it was a helpful, honorable task of rescuing souls lost at sea. Davy Jones' bitterness is what turned it into the dark slave ship it later became.

Well said, Kate! Here, here.

Now, back to the trailer and rumor trail....


You're right Kate. Initially, Davy's job was meant to be more of a rescue operation. He was meant to lead drowning or dead sailors to the underworld. But, after he ripped out his heart, the idea became warped. So, with Will being as pure of spirit as he is, the role of the Dutchman will return to being as it was.

It also fits in nicely with his father's story, as his father was once one of those sailors in question.

Even if he does, Orlando says that he likes his more dark side. I mean did u see the pic. of him at the wheel. He looked evil. Will had his happy ending in the 1st movie, its not Jacks fault that Will sacrafised his freedom for him. He went to Jack not the other way around. The wedding getting got interupted for a reason, it was fate. So maybe its Jacks turn to have his happy ending.

there is a point, 1:01, when will has his hands tied to a pole behind his back. Were their any rumors about that?

At some point, it appears that Will is captured by Beckett, Jones and Norrington. I've no idea how that seems to happen.


Earlier in the film, he is meant to be the prisoner that Elizabeth, Barbossa and the crew trade with Sao Fen in order to trick him into giving the charts they need to reach World's End.

Originally posted by bina
Even if he does, Orlando says that he likes his more dark side. I mean did u see the pic. of him at the wheel. He looked evil. Will had his happy ending in the 1st movie, its not Jacks fault that Will sacrafised his freedom for him. He went to Jack not the other way around. The wedding getting got interupted for a reason, it was fate. So maybe its Jacks turn to have his happy ending.


Just trust me, Will's becoming the Captain of the Dutchman has nothing to do with his being or becoming evil.

it's Disney, so they will dole out happy endings to as many characters as possible, I reckon.

what ever happened to the story ending by Jack searching for the fountain of youth? is that story still floating around? that seems a bit strange... what, does he want to be able to hang out with an immortal Will/Liz FD captainage duo for eternity? lol.

Well, I still believe they found eachother as soulmates lol. I know kate, im extremely cheesy.

Jack's lonelyness is not of without friends, you know there is something missing in his life that got him vexed...And he knows his time is up.

but moving on with the trailer...

Im interested in the scene with Beckette and Davy. I believe they are in a ship. Davy can't be at land, yet...? But look at davy's expression..

or is the fountain of youth thing for Elizabeth, so that she can stay immortal with Will? I bet Jack would do that, damn that good man. lol.

Its not going to end like that. If Will ends up on the FD foreva I highly doubt that Liz would stay on the FD with him. She will probably end up on the Black Pearl with Sparrow.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Well, I still believe they found eachother as soulmates lol. I know kate, im extremely cheesy.

Jack's lonelyness is not of without friends, you know there is something missing in his life that got him vexed...And he knows his time is up.

but moving on with the trailer...

Im interested in the scene with Beckette and Davy. I believe they are in a ship. Davy can't be at land, yet...? But look at davy's expression..

Do you have a picture of that? I can't recall the scene. There are some scenes with Beckett aboard the ship with Jones in the script I have.

Jones isn't happy about Beckett's plans or his being in control of the heart. He's being forced to do things he's not proud of and he reminds Norrington of what it is to be a man of honor.

oh, and on the subject of Will, I'd bet if he ends up captured by or working for Beckett at any point in the film, he will have a plan. He's learning from Jack... so he will turn it to whatever advantage will assure Elizabeth's safety and his father's. he's not going to get evil. he's just becoming a bit more resourceful.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
or is the fountain of youth thing for Elizabeth, so that she can stay immortal with Will? I bet Jack would do that, damn that good man. lol.


Now that would explain a lot, actually. How terrifically bittersweet would that be?! Though, didn't the fountain of youth ending went along hand in hand with the strumpets ending, didn't it?


The last I heard, Elizabeth ends up on an Island standing side by side with her choice.

last i heard, Elizabeth ends up on an island standing side by side with her son, while the pearl comes sailing up.

which fits this fountain of youth theory... Jack's found it for her, and is returning to bring it so she can be immortal with Will.

or maybe not. just trying to be logical.

Well, her choice is her son, if that is the case. Which considering that it's Disney, and that she'll more than likely be married to Will, means that the son is Will's and that the choice was Will.

However, that's a really bittersweet ending for Jack. He clearly still holds some affection for Elizabeth if he'd be willing to go off to the ends of the earth to find the fountain of youth. Unless....hmmmm....Now I have to think.

SON? She doesn't have a kid. When does she have time?

Originally posted by katelovespirate
oh, and on the subject of Will, I'd bet if he ends up captured by or working for Beckett at any point in the film, he will have a plan. He's learning from Jack... so he will turn it to whatever advantage will assure Elizabeth's safety and his father's. he's not going to get evil. he's just becoming a bit more resourceful.

Will is in neither side IMO.

He is just using both parties for his own convinience.

What Will is doing is--to beat a pirate, he has to become a pirate. And he is using both so they can later on go against eachother while he gets the pearl, rescues his father, and takes Liz with him.

He has it all planned. Will learned from the best.

Heh, so young, so full of life.

There are rumors about a son. I don't want to type them. I will give you five dollars if you can find the thread where they discussed the rumor in detail.

i don't know if i buy the fountain of youth theory. it could explain a lot, but i think it would make the plot way too complicated and long. They travel and find jack, have the whole war, AND find the fountain of youth? maybe its just me, but could they fit that plot in without dragging the movie on forever?

no no... the fountain of youth is like the ending. they finish the battle, things are wrapping up, and Jack sails off to find the fountain of youth. it implies he is gone around 9 years.... we dont actually see his adventures there... and then the final scene would be the island scene.

Well, the rumor goes that the movie will sort of resolve, and then there will be a flash forward, to ten years later. With Elizabeth standing next to her son, looking into the horizon.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
last i heard, Elizabeth ends up on an island standing side by side with her son, while the pearl comes sailing up.

which fits this fountain of youth theory... Jack's found it for her, and is returning to bring it so she can be immortal with Will.

or maybe not. just trying to be logical.

Well....mm..why would Jack do that--because he loves her? And wants her happy?

But don't you think it would be a bitter sweet ending for Jack

I know you are just trying to be logical lol. But I think I find it rather silly on the immortality couple thing. Will and Liz, forever and ever sailing saving souls.

Why do T and T always flipping end their movies with the leading lady hugging her child?!?? boo.

Why would Jack still be worried about the fountain of youth when he not only is in purgatory, he has to face Jones, and is still recovering from the kiss. He doesn't have time for that. Who came up with the fountain of youth stuff.

Chiki, I didn't say I didn't find it silly. I strongly dislike the idea of the immortal couple thing. but it seems to make a lot of sense.

and i dont think Jack would do it for her because he is in love with her, but rather because he cares for her deeply, feels a strong sense of protectiveness/friendship to both Will and Liz, and is always up for a good adventure.

and Bina, he isn't worried about it until the rest of that stuff is cleared up. it's not a major plot point, it's an ending plot filler.

WHOA! FREEZE! The fountain of youth theory...where does that come from?

Who says Liz will end up side by side with her son--do we even know its her child?

I know this kid will come, but I also heard this kid had a scene with johnny and keira.

yes i heard that rumor as well, and it still fits with the theory.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Well....mm..why would Jack do that--because he loves her? And wants her happy?

But don't you think it would be a bitter sweet ending for Jack

I know you are just trying to be logical lol. But I think I find it rather silly on the immortality couple thing. Will and Liz, forever and ever sailing saving souls.


On the one hand, I see it. Will and Liz are the immortal lovers. However, I've been thinking about the quasi ending of DMC and the ever loved, ever challenged kiss.

We have Will, whose foot rarely falters. If you notice, he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. When I say mistakes, I mean, even if he makes a mistake it is usually because he is trying to do the right thing. He's as selfless a character that you can get, which to me, symbolizes almost a god-like quality. His touch of destiny if you will, think like Adam and Eve.

Elizabeth in COTBP was similar. She is almost always trying to do the right thing. But in DMC, that changes in her relationship with Jack. If it was about lust, and her giving in even so much as a little to that lust, changes her character completely. Though she did the right thing in sacrificing Jack, there was a hint of selfishness in her decision. Which is sort of like, Eve taking a bite of the apple.

So in short, Elizabeth isn't necessarily worthy to be an immortal when compared to someone like Will because she's taken a bite of the apple so to speak.

In that way, Jack is her foil because he is the most human of all the characters. He's the anti-hero.

I don't know, I think I'm babbling. You can totally argue that in AWE Will also takes a bite in the apple when he starts betraying everyone.

As for the fountain of youth, its crap. Please point it out to me it there is any phyiscal evidence. and the kid, well there can be many endings with him.

But..the fountain of youth????

I don't think so...

Originally posted by bina
As for the fountain of youth, its crap. Please point it out to me it there is any phyiscal evidence. and the kid, well there can be many endings with him.


There are a lot of symbols pointing Jack's lack of time on earth in both DMC and in the rough draft script of AWE. Jack has a lengthy monologue about Immortality.

the fountain of youth isn't crap. i cant say my source, but i'm saying i believe it, and i hope that's enough to say i am not blowing it through my ear.

of course with the kid there can be many endings. but here are the facts: Will and Liz get married, there are no sex scenes, and Will is captain of the flying dutchman, so Elizabeth is still bound to him if married. so the kid would be theirs.

Savvy, I agree that Elizabeth has been Jack's foil in the past, and looks to become more so in this film. But i dont think that points to them being together. A mirrored future doesnt mean a future together, right?

Why am i trying to talk everyone out of a romantic J/L Ending? Someone help me.

Ok, you know what....Teague talks to Jack precisely about immortality

I need to find the..thing.

Haha, it's ok Kate. I agree with you. I don't know that we'll get a romantic ending, nor do I find it likely. It's nice to say, ahhhh, what if, but it does seem likely at this point. It's fun to discuss it though.

Alright, again, we're back to where we started. More scenes from the trailer!

im exhausted. im out. its late here. cant wait to read what you geniuses concoct in the morning. night!

i dont get any of this fountain of youth stuff...
but i do remember ANOTHER rumour going round that The kid might have been jacks...

is there still any truth in that or not?????

Still if they end it with Will that wouldn't be as interesting. Why would she answer Will's quesion with a question? She could have said yes if she was POSITIVE!

well, i guess it depends whether Liz choses Jack or Will.

I think the kid is Jacks but from another women

That scene is sort of a throw back to the old fashioned swashbuckler movies in which, the hero asks the heroine to marry him in the middle of a fight sequence, and she always screams out yes.

This is the modern version in which a real woman would have said, this isn't the moment to discuss the topic.

Originally posted by bina
Still if they end it with Will that wouldn't be as interesting. Why would she answer Will's quesion with a question? She could have said yes if she was POSITIVE!

Not only did she avoid his proposal, but she didn't straight out refuse Jack's with an 'I am engaged to Will'.

I feel like a total dumb ass...and utterly pissed.

Jack Sparrow is not damn bump in the road. He is friggin destiny intervened. He has been mutiny, abandoned on an island, slapped by sluts, smacked with a paddla, got his rum burned, had davy/kraken chase after him, and now Liz kills him with a kiss of death.

Wow, that's a real cherry on top of all that crap he has been through. So why not give him a bittersweet ending as a side dish with Jack bringin' Liz the fountain of youth to Liz and her boy, wait for Will to come.

Will: Hi hunny!! Hi son!

Kid: Daddy!! Im going to be immortal!

Liz: That's right dear!

Jack: Yes! I was willing to do all this s you guys can live forever and ever and ever and ever

**5 hours later**

Jack: and ever and ever!

Will/Liz/kid: Hurray!!

**They sail off**

Jack: Don't mind me!! Im just a bump in the road. I'll just be here...with my rum...and my two strumpets...

Gisselle: I don't think so! *smack*

Scarlette: Don't think this will be your happy ending! *smack*

Jack: Yup...a bump in the road...I'll just keep waiting until another sequel..

SO TRUE!! Instead of saying no to Jacks with morals, desency and hygene, she could have said, because I'm engaged to Will.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


TOUCHE Chiki.


We'll come back to the topic though. Let's move on. We're not going to get anywhere with this conversation because the truth is we just don't know how it's going to end. It will be a surprise, and probably a good one.


I don't necessarily think that Jack's finding the fountain of youth for Elizabeth is necessarily a bad ending. It's bitter sweet, and awfully romantic in a non-typical way.

Also, the rumor is that after a while, Jack's priorities from DMC change. I don't know how true that is.

okay, couldn't resist one more comment...

Elizabeth is with the kid, so I reckon it's hers. If she marries Will, she can't have a kid with Jack and that's that. this is disney, and they are apparently making statements about love and commitments.

Savvy, thank you for the comment on the proposal. Check out the old Robin Hood, among others. Maid Marion responds with "Oh darling I thought you'd never ask."

Plus, the shot of Elizabeth saying "this isn't the best time!" does not directly follow the proposal shot. Elizabeth and Will are on deck during the proposal, in a certain position, and her responding line, she is in a longboat. that line might not have anything to do with the proposal.

He is NOT a bump in the road. He is meant to be happy. In the end he WILL end happy.

Chiki, just wanted to say its okay and here's a hug!!!!!

IF (IF) W/L happen, they will find a way to make Jack happy without her. They won't leave Jack heartbroken. They arent total dumbasses. He's the money.

A topic we haven't touched on. What about Norrington?

Well...*sigh* Norrington looks confused....I can't take a pic of it, but Norrigton has this "Is this the right thing to do?" look.

*still feels like a total dumb ass*

Why do you feel dumb? You shouldn't Chiki. You've raised excellent points, you're on top of things and perceptive.


What I've noticed about the trailer is that there are a strange absence of scenes with his involvement. According to T+T, he has as important if not more important role in AWE than he did in DMC. Not to mention, he has some really interesting and crucial scenes with Beckett and Davy Jones.

I think he will be good in the end. He might die trying to do the right thing. you never know.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Chiki, just wanted to say its okay and here's a hug!!!!!

IF (IF) W/L happen, they will find a way to make Jack happy without her. They won't leave Jack heartbroken. They arent total dumbasses. He's the money.

I know *shrugs*

DMC was not important psshh nooo.

I mean starting with COTBP...wow the winds of change means absolutely nothing. Jack opening up to Liz at the island means nothing either.

The ending of Jack opening the compass while singing the song Liz taught him pssshhh just caca.

DMC Jack being vexed pleeeasse. I mean Jack being vexed and Gibbs saying it? Nah, means nothing

Jack: Why is the rum always gone.

Because hes a friggin drunk.

Liz having a crush on Jack? Impossible I mean come on! She loves Will!!

in the curiosity scene....dont get me started! There is nothing there! No sparks, no love, I mean nothing!

The kiss-- so what?! Does that have to mean something. Its just lips locked with tongues dancing around their mouths. Big deal

I mean he is a BUMP IN THE ROAD after all *shrugs*

So its best to have Jack happy skipping around with rainbows and pink clouds while they leave us happy in seeing Jack surrounded by women with herpes, rum, and treassure.

Such a happy ending for our main character.

That is the rumor. Though I heard something the other day that suggests that he is not as good as he seems. With the rumor, it's hard to imagine him doing something in which he redeems himself.

Ok the rumors surrounding Norrington are:

A) He becomes an Admiral. That's not really a rumor, we know that to be true

B) He does Becket's biding without so much as questioning him, causing both Jones and Governor Swann to despise him

C) He does eventually cross paths with Elizabeth, captures her and eventually releases her to redeem himself.

D) He gets in a three way sword fight with Will, so it's Will, versus Norrington, Beckett and Davy Jones. Apparently, Will starts to lose, and Norrington switches sides

E) There is something contradictory that I heard involving Norrington having something to do with Will's becoming the Captain of the Flying Dutchman.

HAS ANYONE NOTICED:

On the trailor...theres this like 2 second closeup clip of someone turning some kind of board with their hand and its moving....
Its hard to explain...its like something tia dalma would use???

Well, its JACKS hand... i only noticed it because of the rings....
i wonder what hes doing....???

P.S: I think im gonna like norrie all the more in this one
I love a little bit of redemption

i noticed that too, but i have no idea what it could mean

Originally posted by T.Maria
HAS ANYONE NOTICED:

On the trailor...theres this like 2 second closeup clip of someone turning some kind of board with their hand and its moving....
Its hard to explain...its like something tia dalma would use???

Well, its JACKS hand... i only noticed it because of the rings....
i wonder what hes doing....???



Good question. I actually never even thought to examine that more closely. It is Jack's hand, and my guess is that it has something to do with the Pirate Council perhaps. I can't think of anywhere else in the story where this might come into play.

I am nervous about Norrington. I think his intentions will be good, but something bad will happen to him.

Well, in the initial leaked script, he was bumped off by Bootstrap Bill. But according to rumor that has changed significantly.

yeah b/c on wordplayer everyone complain to Ted and Terry and they said to calm down and that was just a low budget ruff draft so just wait to the movie. But I'm to anxious to wait.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Good question. I actually never even thought to examine that more closely. It is Jack's hand, and my guess is that it has something to do with the Pirate Council perhaps. I can't think of anywhere else in the story where this might come into play.

Also:

I dont know if anyone noticed it, but theres like a 2 second closeup of someones hand banging on a table (as if calling order?) and that looked like jacks hand, too...and there were many old looking pirates in the background...

maybe those two shots tie in with the council??

Do we have any confirmation as to who exactly will be in the pirate council sequence??
(as in jack/liz/norrie/will???)

To add to this;
That board that we see jack playing with...would it have anything to do with that brethren/thing that pirates pass down to their sons?
(i think you know what im talking about?? i just cant remember the name of it....)

What if those hands were Teague's...

By the way Teague plays an importatn role in Jack's quest...

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I know *shrugs*

DMC was not important psshh nooo.

I mean starting with COTBP...wow the winds of change means absolutely nothing. Jack opening up to Liz at the island means nothing either.

The ending of Jack opening the compass while singing the song Liz taught him pssshhh just caca.

DMC Jack being vexed pleeeasse. I mean Jack being vexed and Gibbs saying it? Nah, means nothing

Jack: Why is the rum always gone.

Because hes a friggin drunk.

Liz having a crush on Jack? Impossible I mean come on! She loves Will!!

in the curiosity scene....dont get me started! There is nothing there! No sparks, no love, I mean nothing!

The kiss-- so what?! Does that have to mean something. Its just lips locked with tongues dancing around their mouths. Big deal

I mean he is a BUMP IN THE ROAD after all *shrugs*

So its best to have Jack happy skipping around with rainbows and pink clouds while they leave us happy in seeing Jack surrounded by women with herpes, rum, and treassure.

Such a happy ending for our main character.


I will say this Chiki. The fact that she ends up on an island, or rather THE island where she and Jack were marooned before is more than likely significant. Who has a history on the island...Moreover, why end the triangle there, other than to make it circular to where it started?

With this whole Pirate council, whats going on? Will the East Indian Trading Company rule the seas.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
What if those hands were Teague's...

By the way Teague plays an importatn role in Jack's quest...

Really? Now that's interesting. Jack's quest for what, immortality? There is more than one way to end up immortal by the way, other than the fountain of youth.

Originally posted by bina
With this whole Pirate council, whats going on? Will the East Indian Trading Company rule the seas.


The pirates are meeting together to discuss the threat that Beckett places to their livelihood. Awe starts with Beckett hanging pirates. They're calling a council of all the pirates in the world, trying to get them to band together to fight Beckett.

In real life, yes the East India trading company ruled the seas and piracy did come to an end. It's hard to say what will happen in the movie, but since the writers have said that Awe will be an end of an era, I suspect the pirates lose the war.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
The fact that she ends up on an island, or rather THE island where she and Jack were marooned before is more than likely significant. Who has a history on the island...Moreover, why end the triangle there, other than to make it circular to where it started?

WHOA WHOA WHAO!!!!


BACK TRACK HERE A LITTLE!!!!

they end up on THAT ISLAND?!

Are you sh!tting me?!?!

Well...spank my arse and call me judy!!! Isnt THAT A TURN UP FOR THE BOOKS!!

Thankyou for that tidbit of info Savvy....

well bugger me backwards...you've made me feel happy again!!!

I heard that the map will be drawn completly. So does that mean that piracy is gone?

Originally posted by T.Maria
WHOA WHOA WHAO!!!!


BACK TRACK HERE A LITTLE!!!!

they end up on THAT ISLAND?!

Are you sh!tting me?!?!

Well...spank my arse and call me judy!!! Isnt THAT A TURN UP FOR THE BOOKS!!

Thankyou for that tidbit of info Savvy....

well bugger me backwards...you've made me feel happy again!!!


Whoa, whoa whoa, it's just a rumor. I have no way to know if it's real or true. And this was several months ago, so things very well might have changed.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Really? Now that's interesting. Jack's quest for what, immortality? There is more than one way to end up immortal by the way, other than the fountain of youth.

It was a line that teague said that made Jack think for a moment. Teague said something about immortality. Damnit, I need to find it. It's quiet a major spoiler, it indicates something about Liz...

hold up, what?!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
It was a line that teague said that made Jack think for a moment. Teague said something about immortality. Damnit, I need to find it. It's quiet a major spoiler, it indicates something about Liz...


There's no doubt in my mind that the writers wanted a theme for Jack to be about immortality. He tells Will in the rough draft script that his reasons for wanting to stab the heart revolve around this.

Also, I heard that Barbossa makes a quip about Jack's not having an heir to pass on his piece of eight to.

So if the quote revolves around immortality, I would imagine that he says there is more than one way to achieve immortality, i.e. through having a child. That way the blood line can be carried on.


Isn't the quote from Teague something like: It's not about immortality in life, but about the quality of the life?

Originally posted by bina
I heard that the map will be drawn completly. So does that mean that piracy is gone?


That's the rumor. Also, I think it's pretty significant that the trailer opens with a picture of a setting sun, which is symbolism for the end of life, or at least some sort of ending.

I think something will end but nothing to due with Jack. It will probably be with Tia Dalma and Davy or Liz and Will, or something like that.

Originally posted by bina
I think something will end but nothing to due with Jack. It will probably be with Tia Dalma and Davy or Liz and Will, or something like that.

well, it's not all about the relationships. i think the end is refering more to an era, and piracy.

Yeah but you can't end piracy, unless all the pirates r forced to go undercover. but what kind of ending iz that?

Bittersweet. They lose piracy but gain other things in return. And historically, piracy did eventually end.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
There's no doubt in my mind that the writers wanted a theme for Jack to be about immortality. He tells Will in the rough draft script that his reasons for wanting to stab the heart revolve around this.

Also, I heard that Barbossa makes a quip about Jack's not having an heir to pass on his piece of eight to.

So if the quote revolves around immortality, I would imagine that he says there is more than one way to achieve immortality, i.e. through having a child. That way the blood line can be carried on.


Isn't the quote from Teague something like: It's not about immortality in life, but about the quality of the life?

Aye.

You forget...Jack still has those birth charms around his waist...

Yeah but then what becomes of jack?

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Bittersweet. They lose piracy but gain other things in return. And historically, piracy did eventually end.

I agree. Gore mentions this himself.

Piracy is literally at it's end. Historically talking.

DMC shows signs already. I mean, there's not enough treassure, not enough plundering etc.

The life of a pirate is fun while it lasts. But it doesn't last forever historically speaking, again.

So time is running out, its a fight between EITC and pirates, the fight is between them because one thing:

-Beckette has the heart

-Beckette wants to take control of the pirates to work for him and those who refuse to discard them.

So that's what the fight is about. They would rather be free than working for Becketter for his nasty services..

Does that make sense?

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Aye.

You forget...Jack still has those birth charms around his waist...


Exactly, which makes me wonder if the whole "quest for immortality rumor" isn't a metaphor for something else entirely.

perfect sense

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Aye.

You forget...Jack still has those birth charms around his waist...

birth charms? will someone explain this to me, i have no idea what they are

Yes! finally I can upload pics!

Apparently Jack has on his costume, a fertility belt. Which may imply that the kid is in fact his. No one knows for sure of course. It's all hypothesis. The chances are that it's just another piece of junk he's picked up on his various travels.

Yes, good point. But Johnny explains it on the birth charms.

They could've easily overlook that and say it's just a thing he wanted to use. I think it means something.

Ted and Terry like to use symbols and foreshadowing alot.

ok, I keep watching the trailer. Why do you think that Davy Jones saves Jack from falling of the sail thing on the ship?

Wait..what?

Davy doesn't save Jack...well for what I have seen.

i think jack falls off the mast when they are fighting and Davy saves him because jack has the chest. there is a scene in the trailer that might be it, but im not sure..*goes back and checks*

To repeat from another thread. According to rumor, Jack falls off the mast after Davy wounds him. My thought is that the scene we see preludes the actual wounding and falling.

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/3/18/f_PiratestrlNm_cefd59f.jpg

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/3/18/f_PiratestrlNm_fc6418d.jpg

Jack hitting Davy

pictures! thanks, Mina!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/3/18/f_PiratestrlNm_cefd59f.jpg


GOOD WORK CHIKI!




Clearly that is on the Dutchman. Most people are thinking this is after he becomes Captain.....


Should I just reveal how it is that Will becomes Captain of the Dutchman?

please

This is a spoiler thread.

Im very interested in your opinions and analyses

Ok, here it is:

Rumor has it that in the final battle scene, Jack gets hold of the heart. Due to the fact that he's betrayed everyone, and Beckett is winning, he intends to stab the heart to make things right. Will, who allegedly is fighting Norrington, sees that Jack has the heart during the course of the battle and is distracted. Norrington deals Will a mortal blow.
Jack sees that Will is dying, takes the heart, over to Will, and with the sword Will made for Norrington, Jack makes Will stab the heart so that he'll become immortal and live.


But I'm having a hard time fitting this in, because there was a rumor going around earlier that has Will becoming the Captain of the Dutchman mid movie. Also, it conflicts with the rumor that Jack is wounded by Davy Jones while he is fighting on the mast and that Jack falls into the sea.

Originally posted by T.Maria
Also:

I dont know if anyone noticed it, but theres like a 2 second closeup of someones hand banging on a table (as if calling order?) and that looked like jacks hand, too...and there were many old looking pirates in the background...

maybe those two shots tie in with the council??

Do we have any confirmation as to who exactly will be in the pirate council sequence??
(as in jack/liz/norrie/will???)

To add to this;
That board that we see jack playing with...would it have anything to do with that brethren/thing that pirates pass down to their sons?
(i think you know what im talking about?? i just cant remember the name of it....)


That hand that hit the table.. it was barbossa. its his ring and its on the ringer next to its pinky and well.. look at this pic


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/carogilb19/31600909qz3.jpg

I also have a hard time fitting it in. The scene with will at the wheel of the FD seems to me like a mid-movie scene. But thats just me.

ah..There are so many rumors. It could be anyone of them, or none or a combination. They all conflict with eachother. But I guess at the end of the day they are only rumors and there is nothing we can do but wait for the movie. Though I reckon there is atleast some truth behind each of them.

And thanks for posting that..i think there is a good possibility of quite a bit of truth in it.

I also know for certain that when Will becomes captain of the Flying Dutchman, the crew return to normal, including his father.

LMAO! I LUV UR SIGGY AELIZABETH!!! powerpuff baby!

thanks

ooooh! i want to see what all the fish guys look like normally!

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Ok, here it is:

Rumor has it that in the final battle scene, Jack gets hold of the heart. Due to the fact that he's betrayed everyone, and Beckett is winning, he intends to stab the heart to make things right. Will, who allegedly is fighting Norrington, sees that Jack has the heart during the course of the battle and is distracted. Norrington deals Will a mortal blow.
Jack sees that Will is dying, takes the heart, over to Will, and with the sword Will made for Norrington, Jack makes Will stab the heart so that he'll become immortal and live.


But I'm having a hard time fitting this in, because there was a rumor going around earlier that has Will becoming the Captain of the Dutchman mid movie. Also, it conflicts with the rumor that Jack is wounded by Davy Jones while he is fighting on the mast and that Jack falls into the sea.

That could probably explain the shout Liz has when she screams JACK!

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/3/18/f_PiratestrlNm_9472913.jpg