Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

What does it mean?

In 1956, an act of the United States Congress effectively supplanted the national motto "E Pluribus Unum" for "In God We Trust." This was largely a move to cast the United States in a light opposite that of Communism, which was largely associated with atheism (adding "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance was also part of this movement). Not only was that not really true, but Communism is no longer a threat to any sort of religion or political regime. So why keep it?

Keeping "In God We Trust" as the national motto of the United States of America is still casting us in a light opposite that of others. Except now we're the bad guys. Keeping such a federal endorsement of religion emboldens the radical evangelicals and helps in part to keep the United States behind in social and technological developments (in addition to being a violation of the Constitution). There was once a time when religion controlled the government. They were called the Dark Ages.

The radical religious right prevent us from legalizing gay marriage, which is a human rights issue and has nothing to do with religion. The RRR prevents stem cell research, because using frozen embryos that are going to be discarded anyway to cure diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and spinal injuries is somehow 'destroying life.'

However, "E Pluribus Unum" (Latin for "Out of many, one" is a uniting motto as opposed to a dividing one. Originally referring to the original thirteen colonies becoming one nation, it evolved as America became a nation of immigrants. No matter what or how many different cultures enter our borders, no matter what hardships we all face, we are one nation and we stand united.

But no. We continue to have a motto on our money and in our lives that continues to send a message that is categorically un-American.

In God we trust yet bible teaching in school not possible?

I think putting "God" on our money says less how we feel about God and more how we feel about money.
loveshower

disturbing stuff.
eh, money isn't everything.

Originally posted by Mindship
I think putting "God" on our money says less how we feel about God and more how we feel about money.
loveshower

Ha! I absolutely concur.

I think Russia, without a doubt has the best country motto - ''Workers of the World, unite!''

(You have nothing to lose but your chains)

...

There are a lot of things which are categorically un-American in America today, and we can argue this is one of those.

I'm sorry to be a horrible off-topic pedant, but in absolutely no way at all was the time when relgion controlled the Government called 'The Dark Ages'. A Dark Age refers to a time from whiuch we have insufficient recorded history- nothing to do with a time of evil or what-not, except when used by clueless laymen- and the term 'The' Dark Age generally refers to a very elongated example of that process in Britain during the first millenium AD.

Religion controlled (or at least had a huge influence on) Government in huge swathes of historical times that were not at all Dark.

I don't think many people pay attention to things such as national mottos any more, do they?

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
In God we trust yet bible teaching in school not possible?

Hello fool, teaching the Bible in schoold is 100% legal as long as it is not preached. Many public schools have it as part of their cirruculum, including my former HS.

E Pluripus Unum is much more romantic, but its in Latin, meaning 99% of Americans can't understand it. What they cand understand and gobble up is "I believe in God" and not examine the consequences.

Originally posted by Alliance
Hello fool, teaching the Bible in schoold is 100% legal as long as it is not preached. Many public schools have it as part of their cirruculum, including my former HS.

E Pluripus Unum is much more romantic, but its in Latin, meaning 99% of Americans can't understand it. What they cand understand and gobble up is "I believe in God" and not examine the consequences.

Then you should re read your bible, because in the bible, Jesus says that those who call another person (their brother) racca (or fool) is in danger of hell fire. But the real question is, do you really understand why that's a problem or why Jesus would have said that?

Did that have any coherence or relevance to my statement?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
''Workers of the World, unite!''

I agree with the sentiment, but more from this angle:

At a benefit dinner, Bush had used the terms, "the Haves," and the "Have Mores," these as opposed to the "Have Nots," which are 99% of us. What don't we have? Excess wealth, which in itself is not bad. What I personally don't like is when the Haves and the Have-Mores use their wealth and power to acquire even More, and often to the detriment of the Have Nots, or as in my case and most people I know, the "Don't Wants (we have what we need and are happy with it)."

In other words, if someone lives for money, great, go for it. But then, don't use that money to shape society so that you can reap even more, far more than you really need (eg, $20,000 shower curtains), and in turn making it harder for those who are content with $20 shower curtains. I don't need nor want my world to go faster and faster and become harsher and harsher just so you Haves and Have-Mores can fatten your bank accounts in trying to one-up one another.

The world now demands more, promises more and delivers less. It is increasingly becoming "Type-A." And that's not good news for all us relaxed, live-and-let-live B types. Our world needs more compassion, not more deceit and greed.

"Dont-Wants of the World, Unite!"

(To the thread starter, I apologize: my rant should probably have been put in the "American Dream - what a joke" thread. But the opportunity to respond was here).

I'm confused as how a slogan on a coin deters technological advancement...

Originally posted by Alliance
Did that have any coherence or relevance to my statement?

you said "hello fool" to someone, in the same sentence about God/bible...just pointing out what the word "fool" means to Jesus.

Ok, I see the coherence, but it still has no relevance. He is ignorant of US law.

Originally posted by Alliance
Ok, I see the coherence, but it still has no relevance. He is ignorant of US law.

it's only relevant to your statement, not the entire thread.

Originally posted by silver_tears
I'm confused as how a slogan on a coin deters technological advancement... Well if you notice, I didn't even mention the money. The fact that it's our current national motto is the important part

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm sorry to be a horrible off-topic pedant, but in absolutely no way at all was the time when relgion controlled the Government called 'The Dark Ages'. A Dark Age refers to a time from whiuch we have insufficient recorded history- nothing to do with a time of evil or what-not, except when used by clueless laymen- and the term 'The' Dark Age generally refers to a very elongated example of that process in Britain during the first millenium AD.

Religion controlled (or at least had a huge influence on) Government in huge swathes of historical times that were not at all Dark.

I don't think many people pay attention to things such as national mottos any more, do they? Oops

IT EMPOWERS THE RADICAL, RELIGIOUS RIGHT-WINGERS TO KILL GAYS AND PETITION ONE-STOP ABORTION SHOPS

IT'S A TRAAAAAAP

Actually, its a perfect example of right-wing zelotry..how even our nations historci past can be bastardized to support "moral" "majorities"

Originally posted by silver_tears
Fair enough, how does a motto deter technological growth then? It's not the motto itself. It's the way it emboldens those that supprt it to make decisions based off of their personal convictions instead of logic and use the fact that our motto is "In God We Trust" to justify it.

Currently, about 35% percent of Americans believe in Evolution, a scientific theory that is all but proven. Other countries (especially in Western Europe) generally are in the 60s or above. Why is a country that was once the beacon of progress now the exact opposite?

Originally posted by Alliance
Hello fool, teaching the Bible in schoold is 100% legal as long as it is not preached. Many public schools have it as part of their cirruculum, including my former HS.

E Pluripus Unum is much more romantic, but its in Latin, meaning 99% of Americans can't understand it. What they cand understand and gobble up is "I believe in God" and not examine the consequences.

for me, preaching and teaching the bible are almost the same, teaching only much more personal.

and i don't live there at U.S or wherever you are(i'm at the philippines. -_-'), all i know is they don't teach that at your place in general, so if i'm wrong, sorry.

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
for me, preaching and teaching the bible are almost the same, teaching only much more personal.

and i don't live there at U.S or wherever you are(i'm at the philippines. -_-'), all i know is they don't teach that at your place in general, so if i'm wrong, sorry. Wrong thread ermm

ah.. er, well, i was answering that statement Alliance said.

first part, don't bother to read if you don't really care...

Jaeh, you are filipino?

yeah... why do you ask?

i just saw that in your previous post. i assumed you were a white girl!!!

i'm guessing you haven't checked my profile yet... or maybe you have but... oh whatever.

i am a guy, we are stupid, didnt you know?

oh.. i know alright.. more than you think.

but i never knew you guys wouldn't think of that..


oh well..

sowwy, Jaeh.

eh, no problem... common mistake I guess... is it?

nah, i just assumed, silly.

oh well.. srug

Originally posted by Strangelove
What does it mean?

In 1956, an act of the United States Congress effectively supplanted the national motto "E Pluribus Unum" for "In God We Trust." This was largely a move to cast the United States in a light opposite that of Communism, which was largely associated with atheism (adding "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance was also part of this movement). Not only was that not really true, but Communism is no longer a threat to any sort of religion or political regime. So why keep it?

Keeping "In God We Trust" as the national motto of the United States of America is still casting us in a light opposite that of others. Except now we're the bad guys. Keeping such a federal endorsement of religion emboldens the radical evangelicals and helps in part to keep the United States behind in social and technological developments (in addition to being a violation of the Constitution). There was once a time when religion controlled the government. They were called the Dark Ages.

The radical religious right prevent us from legalizing gay marriage, which is a human rights issue and has nothing to do with religion. The RRR prevents stem cell research, because using frozen embryos that are going to be discarded anyway to cure diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and spinal injuries is somehow 'destroying life.'

However, "E Pluribus Unum" (Latin for "Out of many, one" is a uniting motto as opposed to a dividing one. Originally referring to the original thirteen colonies becoming one nation, it evolved as America became a nation of immigrants. No matter what or how many different cultures enter our borders, no matter what hardships we all face, we are one nation and we stand united.

But no. We continue to have a motto on our money and in our lives that continues to send a message that is categorically un-American.

Taking "In God we trust" off of currency or "One nation, under God" out of the pledge of allegience will in no way change the fact that America is God's nation, a Christian nation.


Our blessings come from this fact, and the people who believe it will always exalt God as the ruler of this country, and pray for his protection and prosperity.

In fact, taking it off will just create more Christians. Watch and see, there will be street revivals like the world has never seen, with hundreds upon hundreds at a time being saved and turning their lives over to Chirst.


When the power of the Holy Spirit is healing disease and sickness on street corners, nobody will care what's on the money anymore.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Taking "In God we trust" off of currency or "One nation, under God" out of the pledge of allegience will in no way change the fact that America is God's nation, a Christian nation.


Our blessings come from this fact, and the people who believe it will always exalt God as the ruler of this country, and pray for his protection and prosperity.

In fact, taking it off will just create more Christians. Watch and see, there will be street revivals like the world has never seen, with hundreds upon hundreds at a time being saved and turning their lives over to Chirst.


When the power of the Holy Spirit is healing disease and sickness on street corners, nobody will care what's on the money anymore.

I ask you again, why is this "holy spirit healing" only witnessed by believers or only when believers are readily available? The way I see it; Christian "holy healers" could easily and irrevocably prove the "power of Christ" as you put it, by healing the masses... e.g. go to a children's hospital and heal every child of cancer and life threatening genetic abnormalities, that would gain converts by the thousands. No?

Originally posted by Robtard
I ask you again, why is this "holy spirit healing" only witnessed by believers or only when believers are readily available? The way I see it; Christian "holy healers" could easily and irrevocably prove the "power of Christ" as you put it, by healing the masses... e.g. go to a children's hospital and heal every child of cancer and life threatening genetic abnormalities, that would gain converts by the thousands. No?




Healing isn't to prove a point to unbelievers... it is the reward of faith for those that already ARE believers.

Or simply: Believe in the power of God for healing=healing

No belief= no healing


"For it is written, tempt not the Lord thy God."


Your claims that Christians should go around like magic sorcerers and heal thousands of people at a time (to prove God's existence, presumably) is based on two misconceptions:

1.) That God needs to or would actively try to prove himself to people. People come to Him out of faith and see proof of him in their own personal lives, not the other way around.

2.) That Christians who have the gift of healing (or prophecy) can use it at will, rather than as directed by God through the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Healing isn't to prove a point to unbelievers... it is the reward of faith for those that already ARE believers.

Or simply: Believe in the power of God for healing=healing

No belief= no healing

"For it is written, tempt not the Lord thy God."

Your claims that Christians should go around like magic sorcerers and heal thousands of people at a time (to prove God's existence, presumably) is based on two misconceptions:

1.) That God needs to or would actively try to prove himself to people. People come to Him out of faith and see proof of him in their own personal lives, not the other way around.

2.) That Christians who have the gift of healing (or prophecy) can use it at will, rather than as directed by God through the Holy Spirit.

Excuse me, but you're the one that said:

"When the power of the Holy Spirit is healing disease and sickness on street corners, nobody will care what's on the money anymore." -sithsaber408

Like I said, this "healing power" is only witnessed by believers (aka the biased); how convenient.

I do have another question though considering your above "Believe in the power of God for healing=healing"/ "No belief= no healing" passages... Christians/believers still die of cancer and other horrible diseases, why aren't they healed?

Originally posted by Robtard
Excuse me, but you're the one that said:

"When the power of the Holy Spirit is healing disease and sickness on street corners, nobody will care what's on the money anymore." -sithsaber408

Like I said, this "healing power" is only witnessed by believers (aka the biased); how convenient.

I do have another question though considering your above "Believe in the power of God for healing=healing"/ "No belief= no healing" passages... Christians/believers still die of cancer and other horrible diseases, why aren't they healed?

Yes, but the people on the streets will be drawn in crowds to street preachers, changed by what they hear and by God Himself, and given their lives to Chirst. Then there will be mass healings on the streets. Not just happening to random people as they walk by. And not as some "proof" or some demonstration of God's power so that he can WTFpWn all the skeptics.

My point was merely that currency and pledges have little to do with this being a Christian nation, and that if such things are changed or altered to reflect throwing God out of the country, then you would see far more of His presence and turning of American lives over to Christ then ever before. That's just how He rolls.



(As for the last part, Chistians with diseases aren't always healed because it may just be their time to die. God's ways are not our ways.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that God DOES allow the healing of thousands of people each year.

A good topic, and one better suited for PM's or the religion forums. I was making a point about the true nature of a "Christian nation" and what it has to do with our currency, but I see that we've dragged this convo way off topic.)

It is a shit motto.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is a shit motto.

Yes it is.



-FO!!

I for one, don't really read my money, so "In God we trust" being on it, firstly doesn't bother me as a Christian, and secondly doesn't bother me because I don't actually look at my money that hard. I concentrate on size and color.

Originally posted by Naz
I for one, don't really read my money, so "In God we trust" being on it, firstly doesn't bother me as a Christian, and secondly doesn't bother me because I don't actually look at my money that hard. I concentrate on size and color.

The motto as such...is stupid though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The motto as such...is stupid though.

But Strangelove is blowing the fact of it being on the money out of proportion. No one really cares. I bet most people don't even know whose head in on the nickel.

Am I the only one seeing how absolutely ridiculous this entire discussion is? Putting "In God We Trust" on money encourages Christian extremism?

This entire thread should be hit with a "learn2common sense."

(Well, the Bible does say we'll either serve money or God...so I guess this sort of evens it out.)

Originally posted by Naz
But Strangelove is blowing the fact of it being on the money out of proportion. No one really cares. I bet most people don't even know whose head in on the nickel.

Why should it be on though?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why should it be on though?
Because that's the way it has been and there's no need to change it.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Because that's the way it has been and there's no need to change it.

It is a stupid motto. That doesn't speak for the whole country.


And it has only been like that since 1956. So, if it could be changed back then why not now, to well...a not stupid motto maybe?

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is a stupid motto. That doesn't speak for the whole country.


And it has only been like that since 1956. So, if it could be changed back then why not now, to well...a not stupid motto maybe?

Well I heard they were planning to get rid of the penny anyway. So one coin down, call it an acomplishment.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is a stupid motto. That doesn't speak for the whole country.


And it has only been like that since 1956. So, if it could be changed back then why not now, to well...a not stupid motto maybe?
Because there is no need to change it back. Granted, there was no need to put it on there in the first place, but still.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Because there is no need to change it back. Granted, there was no need to put it on there in the first place, but still.

Well...the motto doesn't represent the population...that would be one reason.


Also, it is stupid.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well...the motto doesn't represent the population...that would be one reason.


Also, it is stupid.
Yes, we know, you don't like God or Christians or anything. Therefore, it's stupid.

Maybe E Pluribus Unum is a stupid motto. It ought to be changed to "Yabba-dabba-doo!"

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yes, we know, you don't like God or Christians or anything. Therefore, it's stupid.

Maybe E Pluribus Unum is a stupid motto. It ought to be changed to "Yabba-dabba-doo!"

No. It is stupid because it speaks of a trust something outside of the individual. That is stupid. Why should you trust anything besides yourself. I would alo have quite a problem if the motto was "In Cheese we Trust" ... just as stupid. It seems to shift responsibility. Therefore idiotic.

And it should be changed because not all (not even an amazingly great amoung) of your citizens even believe in such a thing as God and your constitution speaks strictly of a separation of state and church. God not being a concept of states...

Originally posted by Bardock42
No. It is stupid because it speaks of a trust something outside of the individual. That is stupid. Why should you trust anything besides yourself. I would alo have quite a problem if the motto was "In Cheese we Trust" ... just as stupid. It seems to shift responsibility. Therefore idiotic.

And it should be changed because not all (not even an amazingly great amoung) of your citizens even believe in such a thing as God and your constitution speaks strictly of a separation of state and church. God not being a concept of states...

The "separation of church and state" is not in the U.S. Constitution. Just an F.Y.I.

Originally posted by Robtard
The "separation of church and state" is not in the U.S. Constitution. Just an F.Y.I.

Hmm, well, **** that then. Was such a good argument though.

Then again though the phrase does not appear it is stated in the amendments.

The motto doesn't bother me...so it stays.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

I think Russia, without a doubt has the best country motto - ''Workers of the World, unite!''

(You have nothing to lose but your chains)

...



They got that from the Communist Manifesto.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, well, **** that then. Was such a good argument though.

Then again though the phrase does not appear it is stated in the amendments.

T. Jefferson wrote that the 1st amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state. J. Madison said it "drew a line", Jeffersons just happened to stick better. It's just a phrase regardless.

There are far better arguments to state that the American forefathers where indeed not making a "Religious/Christian Nation"; e.g. you'd think they would have mentioned Jesus or at least God in the constitution somewhere if they indeed did want America to be "Jesus Land" as some here seem to think.

Originally posted by Robtard
T. Jefferson wrote that the 1st amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state. J. Madison said it "drew a line", Jeffersons just happened to stick better. It's just a phrase regardless.

There are far better arguments to state that the American forefathers where indeed not making a "Religious/Christian Nation"; e.g. you'd think they would have mentioned Jesus or at least God in the constitution somewhere if they indeed did want America to be "Jesus Land" as some here seem to think.

Well, they did separate or divide or whatever you want to call it.

Originally posted by Naz
But Strangelove is blowing the fact of it being on the money out of proportion. No one really cares. I bet most people don't even know whose head in on the nickel. The part about it being on our money was never part of my point.

I love how everyone thinks the money is my problem, when I barely mentioned it at all. Lovely things, straw men

^^^

Well if you're problem is then that Americans trust in God, my suggestion would be that you get over it.

If you're problem is that their trust spills over into govt. policy then you have a point, though it's a losing one as far as I'm concerned.

Don't let capt.s numbers (40 mil) fool you, in a report from msnbc last year 100 million (roughly 1/3rd of our 300 mil population) people identified themselves as Evangelical Christians.

That doesn't even include those that just kinda believe in God, or angels, or whatever.

You live in a Christian nation, and though Mr. Jefferson may not have completely endorsed it as such, many more of our founders did.

http://www.providenceforum.org/afr.aspx?pid=36

Originally posted by sithsaber408
^^^

Well if you're problem is then that Americans trust in God, my suggestion would be that you get over it.

If you're problem is that their trust spills over into govt. policy then you have a point, though it's a losing one as far as I'm concerned.

Don't let capt.s numbers (40 mil) fool you, in a report from msnbc last year 100 million (roughly 1/3rd of our 300 mil population) people identified themselves as Evangelical Christians.

That doesn't even include those that just kinda believe in God, or angels, or whatever.

You live in a Christian nation, and though Mr. Jefferson may not have completely endorsed it as such, many more of our founders did.

http://www.providenceforum.org/afr.aspx?pid=36

But not all Americans trust in God, shouldn't the motto represent...well...all americans? Or at least not leave out a huge amount?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
You live in a Christian nation,



No we don't....



United States major' founding aspect was separation of Church and State....how do you NOT understand that ?


The term "In God we Trust" was NOT a founding
American tradition, it was added on recently. The term "One Nation Under God" was also propaganda against Communism, which was added in the 1950's.

Since Communism is no longer a threat to our style of Government, we should remove that quote from the Pledge of Allegiance, which is FOR the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE...having nothing to do with God.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
^^^

Well if you're problem is then that Americans trust in God, my suggestion would be that you get over it.

If you're problem is that their trust spills over into govt. policy then you have a point, though it's a losing one as far as I'm concerned.

Don't let capt.s numbers (40 mil) fool you, in a report from msnbc last year 100 million (roughly 1/3rd of our 300 mil population) people identified themselves as Evangelical Christians.

That doesn't even include those that just kinda believe in God, or angels, or whatever.

You live in a Christian nation, and though Mr. Jefferson may not have completely endorsed it as such, many more of our founders did.

http://www.providenceforum.org/afr.aspx?pid=36

We live in a nation slowly being hi-jacked by people who call themselves Christians... How can you have "Freedom of Religion" when any one single religion has as stranglehold in the government?

Look at Iran; do you really want a government RULED by religion, any religion?

"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations..."

-Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775


"...except the Bible, there is not a true history in the world."

-John Jay, February 28, 1797 (First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and Signer of the U.S. Constitution.)


"God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

-Benjamin Franklin, 1787


"Our constituiton was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadaquate to the government of any other."

-John Adams, October 11, 1798


"The belief in a God, all powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments that enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources..."

-James Madison, November 20 1825 ("Chief Architect of the U.S. Constitution."


"Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become to self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us."

-Abraham Lincoln, March 30, 1863


"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be gratefull for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

-George Washington, October 3, 1789





Checkmate, bitches.


This IS a Christian nation. It always has been.

Long before the words "In God we trust" or "Under God" were added to coins and pledges, this country was founded and started by people who had faith in the Christian God, and read the Christian Bible.


Point of fact the Constitution NEVER says anything about a "seperation of church and state"... rather it says: "congress shall make no law concerning religion".

Notice it isn't "Relgion shall make no law concerning congress."

That implies that the true meaning was for the government to stay out of people's religions and not tell them how to practice them, rather than the popular secular progressive idea that Christianity isn't meant to be part of our country.


Christianity always has been a part of this country, it's why it was allowed to become the greatest one in the world.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations..."

-Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775


"...except the Bible, there is not a true history in the world."

-John Jay, February 28, 1797 (First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and Signer of the U.S. Constitution.)


"God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

-Benjamin Franklin, 1787


"Our constituiton was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadaquate to the government of any other."

-John Adams, October 11, 1798


"The belief in a God, all powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments that enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources..."

-James Madison, November 20 1825 ("Chief Architect of the U.S. Constitution."


"Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become to self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us."

-Abraham Lincoln, March 30, 1863


"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be gratefull for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

-George Washington, October 3, 1789





Checkmate, bitches.


This IS a Christian nation. It always has been.

Long before the words "In God we trust" or "Under God" were added to coins and pledges, this country was founded and started by people who had faith in the Christian God, and read the Christian Bible.


Point of fact the Constitution NEVER says anything about a "seperation of church and state"... rather it says: "congress shall make no law concerning religion".

Notice it isn't "Relgion shall make no law concerning congress."

That implies that the true meaning was for the government to stay out of people's religions and not tell them how to practice them, rather than the popular secular progressive idea that Christianity isn't meant to be part of our country.


Christianity always has been a part of this country, it's why it was allowed to become the greatest one in the world.

No, it was a nation that was predominanetly colonized by Christians, who had the decency to create a country that is not limited to one world view, that did not interfere with the personal spiritual believes and did not let them interfere with the country.

On a different note, the Roman Empire fell about the time it was Christianized.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations..."

-Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775


"...except the Bible, there is not a true history in the world."

-John Jay, February 28, 1797 (First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and Signer of the U.S. Constitution.)


"God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

-Benjamin Franklin, 1787


"Our constituiton was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadaquate to the government of any other."

-John Adams, October 11, 1798


"The belief in a God, all powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments that enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources..."

-James Madison, November 20 1825 ("Chief Architect of the U.S. Constitution."


"Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become to self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us."

-Abraham Lincoln, March 30, 1863


"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be gratefull for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

-George Washington, October 3, 1789





Checkmate, bitches.


This IS a Christian nation. It always has been.

Long before the words "In God we trust" or "Under God" were added to coins and pledges, this country was founded and started by people who had faith in the Christian God, and read the Christian Bible.


Point of fact the Constitution NEVER says anything about a "seperation of church and state"... rather it says: "congress shall make no law concerning religion".

Notice it isn't "Relgion shall make no law concerning congress."

That implies that the true meaning was for the government to stay out of people's religions and not tell them how to practice them, rather than the popular secular progressive idea that Christianity isn't meant to be part of our country.


Christianity always has been a part of this country, it's why it was allowed to become the greatest one in the world.

You're trying to checkmate and you don't even have a chessboard...

Your quotes mean nothing... This has been done before and for each of your "Go Jesus Go!" quotes, there's a quote out there from Jefferson, Franklin, Madison etc. about their disdain for organized religion and the like.

I ask you, if the forefathers of this country did intend on America being a "Christian Nation" (aka Jesus Land); one ruled by Christianity as you seem to think, then why isn't Jesus or at least God mentioned in the Constitution?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Christianity always has been a part of this country, it's why it was allowed to become the greatest one in the world.

Dude...you're pretty sick imo.

Originally posted by Alliance
Dude...you're pretty sick imo.

This country has been blessed by all the Christians serving in it, praying for it, and believing in it.

God is removed from schools, and abortion is passed: bang! 9/11.


If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.


If there is, then I'm 100% right.

(fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

Are you?)

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This country has been blessed by all the Christians serving in it, praying for it, and believing in it.

God is removed from schools, and abortion is passed: bang! 9/11.


If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.


If there is, then I'm 100% right.

(fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

Are you?)




You're a crack pot

Putting God on money is an attempt to make money seem good.

Money is good but a lust for it can twist the hearts of man and that's bad.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This country has been blessed by all the Christians serving in it, praying for it, and believing in it.

God is removed from schools, and abortion is passed: bang! 9/11.


If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.


If there is, then I'm 100% right.

(fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

Are you?) OMFG

Your rhetoric is swiss cheese.

not to mentioned entirely misinformed.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations..."

-Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775


"...except the Bible, there is not a true history in the world."

-John Jay, February 28, 1797 (First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and Signer of the U.S. Constitution.)


"God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

-Benjamin Franklin, 1787


"Our constituiton was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadaquate to the government of any other."

-John Adams, October 11, 1798


"The belief in a God, all powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments that enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources..."

-James Madison, November 20 1825 ("Chief Architect of the U.S. Constitution."


"Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become to self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us."

-Abraham Lincoln, March 30, 1863


"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be gratefull for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

-George Washington, October 3, 1789





Checkmate, bitches.


This IS a Christian nation. It always has been.

Long before the words "In God we trust" or "Under God" were added to coins and pledges, this country was founded and started by people who had faith in the Christian God, and read the Christian Bible.


Point of fact the Constitution NEVER says anything about a "seperation of church and state"... rather it says: "congress shall make no law concerning religion".

Notice it isn't "Relgion shall make no law concerning congress."

That implies that the true meaning was for the government to stay out of people's religions and not tell them how to practice them, rather than the popular secular progressive idea that Christianity isn't meant to be part of our country.


Christianity always has been a part of this country, it's why it was allowed to become the greatest one in the world.











Checkmate, indeed.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

^ This implies this:

Originally posted by sithsaber408
If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This country has been blessed by all the Christians serving in it, praying for it, and believing in it.

God is removed from schools, and abortion is passed: bang! 9/11.


If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.


If there is, then I'm 100% right.

(fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

Are you?)

You seriously think God caused 9/11 because God is angry? Seriously?

Also, your "If" argument is fraudulent, what if there in fact is a spiritual/super-natural side of life but it's entirely different than what you believe it is?

Originally posted by Bardock42
It seems to shift responsibility. Therefore idiotic.
Talk about reading into it.

Actually, the Constitution doesn't. The "wall of separation" was written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptists who were afraid that the government saw their religious freedom as being a privilege rather than a right.

Furthermore, the entire idea of the "wall of separation" has been so perverted since its original inception that it barely resembles what it once did.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Talk about reading into it.

Actually, the Constitution doesn't. The "wall of separation" was written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptists who were afraid that the government saw their religious freedom as being a privilege rather than a right.

Furthermore, the entire idea of the "wall of separation" has been so perverted since its original inception that it barely resembles what it once did.



yawn

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
yawn
Brilliant retort to factual information.

*Yawns.*

Originally posted by FeceMan
Brilliant retort to factual information.

*Yawns.*


yawn

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
yawn
I got pwned.

I love you Feceman, you're so easy to tick off

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I love you Feceman, you're so easy to tick off
Let's meet IRL and have sex.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Let's meet IRL and have sex.


Sorry, I don't have a shit fetish....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sorry, I don't have a shit fetish....
That just heightens the anticipation.

Originally posted by FeceMan
That just heightens the anticipation.



Do you cyber ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you cyber ?
Absolutely not.

But, with all my pent up rage and sexual frustration, I don't think it will matter.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Actually, the Constitution doesn't. The "wall of separation" was written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptists who were afraid that the government saw their religious freedom as being a privilege rather than a right.

Furthermore, the entire idea of the "wall of separation" has been so perverted since its original inception that it barely resembles what it once did. Hm. Let's consider the phrase "wall of separation." A theoretical solid and opaque object between the church and the state. I believe the current supporters of the separation of church and state are advocating the exact same thing.

Some perversion you got there yawn

Originally posted by FeceMan
Talk about reading into it.

Actually, the Constitution doesn't. The "wall of separation" was written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptists who were afraid that the government saw their religious freedom as being a privilege rather than a right.

Furthermore, the entire idea of the "wall of separation" has been so perverted since its original inception that it barely resembles what it once did.
It is a motto, it is supposed to be interpreted....


The constitution says that no laws shall be passed concerning religion...any religion (especially islam, because the US is a Muslim country, we know that)...that is a separation of the church and state....it just factually is. In the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This country has been blessed by all the Christians serving in it, praying for it, and believing in it.

God is removed from schools, and abortion is passed: bang! 9/11.


If there is no supernatural, no spiritual side of life then I'm a crack pot.


If there is, then I'm 100% right.

(fortunately for me, I've seen the supernatural/spiritual in the natural world many times, and I'm assured of the true nature of things and of whats going on in this country right now.

Are you?)

Actually no.

If there is no spiritual side of life you are a crackpot

If there is a spiritual side of life you might still very likely be a crackpot if any of the other beliefs is correct and yours wrong.

So....basically, chances are you are a crackpot....

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Checkmate, indeed.

unsurprisingly, sithsaber is nowhere to be found.

i have always been very happy to live in this country, but after watching jesus camp (realizing that about a quarter of the country is unequivocally batshit insane) i'm very excited about becoming french fluent, so i can get the hell out of here before something bad happens. i'm not sure how evangelicals, fundamentalists, and extremists escaped my notice for so long. i guess we just don't get too many in the city

Originally posted by FeceMan
Absolutely not.

But, with all my pent up rage and sexual frustration, I don't think it will matter.



Just grab the nearest female and boom boom ...it might help calm your temper....you'll think clearer too.

Originally posted by manorastroman
unsurprisingly, sithsaber is nowhere to be found.

i have always been very happy to live in this country, but after watching jesus camp (realizing that about a quarter of the country is unequivocally batshit insane) i'm very excited about becoming french fluent, so i can get the hell out of here before something bad happens. i'm not sure how evangelicals, fundamentalists, and extremists escaped my notice for so long. i guess we just don't get too many in the city


Here in the city, people are exposed to the multitudes of thoughts and ideas from other people and media. We are basically forced to pick and choose, question, and think for ourselves.


In red state areas where people are most isolated and dwell with like-minded people, they are bound to think and feel by the status quo.


It's not their fault....its very easy to brainwash people through popular thought, propaganda, and nurture.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Here in the city, people are exposed to the multitudes of thoughts and ideas from other people and media. We are basically forced to pick and choose, question, and think for ourselves.


In red state areas where people are most isolated and dwell with like-minded people, they are bound to think and feel by the status quo.


It's not their fault....its very easy to brainwash people through popular thought, propaganda, and nurture.
Wow. You're so full of your own shit that you actually believe it.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Wow. You're so full of your own shit that you actually believe it.



Huh ? What are you talking about, I'm not Christian....

Originally posted by manorastroman
unsurprisingly, sithsaber is nowhere to be found.

i have always been very happy to live in this country, but after watching jesus camp (realizing that about a quarter of the country is unequivocally batshit insane) i'm very excited about becoming french fluent, so i can get the hell out of here before something bad happens. i'm not sure how evangelicals, fundamentalists, and extremists escaped my notice for so long. i guess we just don't get too many in the city

1) Though eye-openly scary, Jesus Camp was just a movie.

2) Don't bail out, stay and fight; otherwise "they" win.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Huh ? What are you talking about, I'm not Christian....
I'm glad. Having someone like you with us would most certainly be detrimental.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Don't let capt. fool you


I didn't say anything.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I didn't say anything.

That's what makes you so devious...

Originally posted by Robtard
That's what makes you so devious...

Okay, let's try it again:

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Don't let capt. fool you


Bwahahahahahahah
*twists mustache*

Originally posted by FeceMan
I'm glad. Having someone like you with us would most certainly be detrimental.


Oh please...the Church was no better or worse than when I was Christian...


The Church is still the same with or without me.....and didn't Jesus say don't leave any sheep behind....oh wait...you're gonna say I'm a wolf

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh please...the Church was no better or worse than when I was Christian...


The Church is still the same with or without me.....and didn't Jesus say don't leave any sheep behind....oh wait...you're gonna say I'm a wolf
No, you're a goat.

(Biblical allusions for 500, Alex.)

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, you're a goat.

(Biblical allusions for 500, Alex.)


I'd rather be a Goat than a Virgin

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'd rather be a Goat than a Virgin
You fail.

Originally posted by FeceMan
You fail.


Is that the best you got ?



This was getting fun...you just killed it

Fine. I'd rather be a virgin than be a goat because one can go from being a virgin to a not-virgin while one is trapped as a goat.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Fine. I'd rather be a virgin than be a goat because one can go from being a virgin to a not-virgin while one is trapped as a goat.


You never heard of the goat who turns into a Prince ?


And secondly, I somehow have the feeling you will be a Virgin forever....

Originally posted by Strangelove
Hm. Let's consider the phrase "wall of separation." A theoretical solid and opaque object between the church and the state. I believe the current supporters of the separation of church and state are advocating the exact same thing.

Some perversion you got there yawn I love how you ignore this, Fece

Originally posted by Strangelove
What does it mean?

In 1956, an act of the United States Congress effectively supplanted the national motto "E Pluribus Unum" for "In God We Trust." This was largely a move to cast the United States in a light opposite that of Communism, which was largely associated with atheism (adding "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance was also part of this movement). Not only was that not really true, but Communism is no longer a threat to any sort of religion or political regime. So why keep it?
Hello Strangelove, how's everything going? I will agree and disagree on some points. Communist China is building up an economic and military machine that will surpass the USA in 1-2 decades so there is still a Communist "threat". I don't have a problem with God on money or in the Pledge because the USA was founded on Judea/Christian philosophy and not Religion. Also, polls show 75%-85% of the US population believe in a "God" and in a Democracy the majority rules.
Originally posted by Strangelove

Keeping "In God We Trust" as the national motto of the United States of America is still casting us in a light opposite that of others. Except now we're the bad guys. Keeping such a federal endorsement of religion emboldens the radical evangelicals and helps in part to keep the United States behind in social and technological developments (in addition to being a violation of the Constitution). There was once a time when religion controlled the government. They were called the Dark Ages.The Federal Government isn't endorsing a particular Religion in reference to the word "God". "God" means many things to people and doesn't denote any Religion. I would protest the use of Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Jove, Mohammad, Moses, etc. The Dark Ages was a long time ago and I haven't read news on any recent Inquisitions or Crusades.
Originally posted by Strangelove

The radical religious right prevent us from legalizing gay marriage, which is a human rights issue and has nothing to do with religion. The RRR prevents stem cell research, because using frozen embryos that are going to be discarded anyway to cure diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and spinal injuries is somehow 'destroying life.'These are delicate issues to say the least. I have no problem with civil unions for gays but, as a traditional dude, I prefer marriage to be set only for a man and woman. Stem cell research is a very murky subject. I have no problem with experiments on embryos that can't be used for fertilization and would be discarded anyway. I'm against the use of VIABLE embryos.
Originally posted by Strangelove

However, "E Pluribus Unum" (Latin for "Out of many, one" is a uniting motto as opposed to a dividing one. Originally referring to the original thirteen colonies becoming one nation, it evolved as America became a nation of immigrants. No matter what or how many different cultures enter our borders, no matter what hardships we all face, we are one nation and we stand united.

But no. We continue to have a motto on our money and in our lives that continues to send a message that is categorically un-American. I agreed with your statement above. I think the USA is a noble country for the most part and I enjoy the mix of cultures, Religion and races. Again, the word God doesn't bother me since the USA was founded on Judea/Christian philosophy. I take it as a homage to the Founding Fathers and their vision. If anybody has a rebuttal, question or simply wants to tell me how wrong I am then please PM me. I only browse the GDF and won't see your posts. BTW, good topic Strangelove. This will promote good discussion.

Why should I trust in god? Is the question I would like to ask, what guarantee is there I will get anything out of trusting in something I see no proof for.

-FO!!

Originally posted by Badabing
Hello Strangelove, how's everything going? I will agree and disagree on some points. Communist China is building up an economic and military machine that will surpass the USA in 1-2 decades so there is still a Communist "threat".a) China is really Communist in name only these days. They have made many economic reforms recently and really can't be considered a Communist government anymore.
and b) China is not our enemy
Majority rule with minority rights. Which means that even though people of a monotheistic faith make up a sizeable majority in this country, it doesn't not mean that the rest of us have to be represented by something we don't believe in.
It excludes polytheistic faiths (e.g. Hinduism), nontheistic faiths (e.g. Buddhism), as well as those who simply don't believe in a religion. Plus there the fact that Jews would never put the name of the Lord and God on something as common as money (Theodore Roosevelt made this argument once). And again, I reference the principle of majority rule with minority rights.
a) Gay marriage is a must because without it, there is no equality, and that is another principle that America supposedly stands for.
and b) most stem cell researchers intend to only use discarded frozen embryos. The RR's stand of killing a living thing (when in fact is only an unfertilized clump of cells) or cloned embryos are both ridiculous.
Well if you read some of the quotes that (I forget who) posted, you will see that making a Judeo/Christian nation was most definitely not what the Founding Fathers were going for. Thank you

Actually, I just missed this.

In fact, the current idea of the separation of church and state is, in fact, a perversion of the founders' intent. And do you know why this is?

Well, I'm sure you know why the pilgrims originally came over to America: to escape religious persecution. Thus, one of their main goals in founding a new nation was to allow for religious freedom for everyone, and one of the goals of this was to prevent the Church from ruling the government. Sounds simple, right? The letter from Jefferson to the Baptists reinforces this--government was to be kept separate from religion so that the Baptists would have religious rights, not privileges. However, the Founding Fathers obviously did not want a nation devoid of religion.

I must ask you: if the idea of the separation of church and state was meant to be how it is today, why were church services held in the Capitol? Why were the Ten Commandments erected outside of various public institutions? Why were 20,000 copies of the Bible imported by the government when there was a Bible shortage due to the Revolutionary War?

Originally posted by FeceMan
However, the Founding Fathers obviously did not want a nation devoid of religion.

Don't speak of such intentions when they cannot be factual. Several founding fathers were atheists and many others likely thought that they were the only religion and wished to see other branches marginalized. They certainly didn't agree with each others religions.

Still only a few specific branches of Christianity were represented, so its no wonder that Bibles could be imported by the government. Religious diversity was much narrower and in a different context.

Unfortunately, today's America is different and things change in 200 years. There are now other religions in the US besides Christianity and its becoming increasingly offensive to other people.

As an atheist, I don't care if people are religious, thats not my concern. However, when government starts USING religion, thats every bit an infringement on the separation of church and state.

Applying 240 year old conceptions of church-state relations isn't productive because they simply aren't applicable.

Originally posted by Alliance
Applying 240 year old conceptions of church-state relations isn't productive because they simply aren't applicable.
Perhaps.

But then one ought to stop quoting the "wall of separation" if one takes that viewpoint. Maybe that conception isn't applicable. And if one takes that viewpoint, one needs not to talk about the intentions of the Founding Fathers in creating the First Amendment. Maybe that's no longer applicable.

I'd argue that the religious dimensions of America have changed, while the deisire for free speech, press, assembly, and petition have not. (beyond acutually being extended to ALL Americans)

Originally posted by Alliance
I'd argue that the religious dimensions of America have changed, while the deisire for free speech, press, assembly, and petition have not. (beyond acutually being extended to ALL Americans)
Heh, coloreds.

Sure, there are many more religions present in the US today, but that doesn't mean the "dimensions" have changed. What do you mean by that?

The realative size of the "founding" Christian sects then and today.

Not only have other religions been introduced and increased in size, but new Christians groups have developed as well. Also, religious philosphy has changed.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I must ask you: if the idea of the separation of church and state was meant to be how it is today, why were church services held in the Capitol? Why were the Ten Commandments erected outside of various public institutions? Why were 20,000 copies of the Bible imported by the government when there was a Bible shortage due to the Revolutionary War? Because of a little thing called the Free Exercise clause. Many members of Congress are religious, and holding church services is a convenience. It's not state sponsored religion.

As for the 10 Commandments, if you recall the case of the courthouse in Alabama where a sculpture of the Commandments was installed by a judge. The Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional, and when the judge refused to have it removed, he was fired. There was another case where it was allowed due to the fact that it was kept alongside other famous historical concepts of law, like The Code of Hammurabi.

And again, whether or not the government sponsors the religion has no bearing on the people themselves. And during and after the Revolutionary War, there were lots of pious men and women living in the country. Neither you nor I have any control over that. However, it does nothing to advance your argument.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Because of a little thing called the Free Exercise clause. Many members of Congress are religious, and holding church services is a convenience. It's not state sponsored religion.
Doesn't matter. It wouldn't fly today.

Again, we're talking about the original intent.

Yes, it does. It shows how the "wall of separation" was meant to be.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Doesn't matter. It wouldn't fly today.

Again, we're talking about the original intent.

Yes, it does. It shows how the "wall of separation" was meant to be. And how do you perceive that the wall of separation "supposed to be"? Granted there's the fact that you have really no idea what the original intent actually was. Thomas Jefferson wasn't the only founder of America

By the actions of the early government regarding it--it would have been best understood then.

Originally posted by FeceMan
when there was a Bible shortage due to the Revolutionary War?

This struck me as really fcuking funny.

too lazy to read 7 pages, and i have no clue if anyone else has stated this but...:

I am an atheist, but i'm not bothered by the "in god we trust" because I've never seen it as a religious thing. It's kinda just saying we are one, we all look towards the same thing, whether(sp) its god or w/e

But the power which has always started the greatest religious and political avalanches in history rolling has from time to immemorial been the magic of power of the spoken word, and that alone.

Particularly the broad masses of the people can be moved only by the power of speech.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Britain's is "Dieu et mon droit"-God and my right
England's is the same.
Scotland's is "Nemo me impune lacessit"-No one provokes me with impunity.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Britain's is "Dieu et mon droit"-God and my right
England's is the same.
Scotland's is "Nemo me impune lacessit"-No one provokes me with impunity.


I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Oh God, why is this guy spamming every single thread ? He spams more than I do

91% is a pretty big majority, Love.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
91% is a pretty big majority, Love. So might makes right? Majority rules and screw everyone else? I think not.

Originally posted by Strangelove
So might makes right? Majority rules and screw everyone else? I think not.
i never implied that, i was just noting the numbers.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i never implied that, i was just noting the numbers. Majority means nothing, really. America is a nation that claims to emulate equality, and as long as there are people who don't believe in God, or perhaps believe in different God(s), America will not be a "Christian nation." Because we are equal.

well, i have my own set of beliefs based on personal experiences. nothing anyone says or shows me will sway me from these. even if i turn out to be the only guy in the world with these set of beliefs, i will stick with them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, i have my own set of beliefs based on personal experiences. nothing anyone says or shows me will sway me from these. even if i turn out to be the only guy in the world with these set of beliefs, i will stick with them. Same here

"In Strangelove we trust."......has a nice ring to it.

Originally posted by Strangelove
The fact that a large majority of Americans are Christian does not make it a Christian nation. France is overwhelmingly populated by Christians, and it's one of the most secular countries in the world. Same for Ireland. Same for Germany.

"In God we trust" does not indicate which god they are placing trust in. Many Muslims will refer to Allah as God, as do many Hindus (One God but many faces). Baha'i faith also recognises a the term God to mean the supreme being of the universe, for it to be a Christian only motto then it would have to say, "In the Father We Trust," Or "In Christ we trust."

And may I say, "Out of many, one" is a grammatical nightmare, the translation is, "One from many" or "One out of many"

in buddha we trust doesnt sound right.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
in buddha we trust doesnt sound right.

Well, that I suppose we use God, it encompasses all faiths, even those who don't actually believe in a supreme being. For them God should represent a human ideal of the supreme good and purest part of the human imagination.

Wouldn't "In us we trust" be much nicer...cause...well...all of us are mostly sure that we exist....and....it gives the individual much more focus...whcih are ideals of the U.S.

"In Bardock we trust".......hmmmmm....not bad.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wouldn't "In us we trust" be much nicer...
You mean, "In humans we trust?" In ourselves??


dontgetit . . . disgust


...gonna have to get back to ya on that one.

Its not so bad. Saudi Arabia has even more religious country moto.

Originally posted by Strangelove
So might makes right? Majority rules and screw everyone else? I think not.

Well that's because you believe in weak leadership!

Might makes right? An excellant country motto!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Might makes right? An excellant country motto!

Ja! Das ist wahr!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
And may I say, "Out of many, one" is a grammatical nightmare, the translation is, "One from many" or "One out of many" "Out of many, one" is just a literal translation. One out of the many is what it's supposed to read as. I like the way it sounds though

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Its not so bad. Saudi Arabia has even more religious country moto. That's because it's basically a theocracy. So is Iran. And we want to be like them why?