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This is in response to my comment were I said that Cap can replicate class 100 force, im trying to clear this up because basically KMC members are now trying to spread **** about me. If you misunderstood me fine...but this is what im trying to say.


Originally posted by Alfheim
what im saying is Hercules would use brute force to knock out Namor. Cap would use pressure points or weak points.

Ok here it is.


http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2299/captainamerica36514od1.jpg


Originally posted by Alfheim

This is what im trying to say. Cap can not lift a 100 tons but like people in the class 100 range he can use his skill to achieve the same affect.

Lets take an example......Namor. Namor has class 100 strenght. What does Hercules do to knock out Namor....Hercules would use brute force. What would Cap do? Cap would use his skill and fighting knowledge of weak points. Both Hercules and Cap would achieve the same result. Do you understand?



Im sorry but some people on this forum just look for excuses to make fun of other members. I hope the above posts clarify the matter and puts an end to this BS....probably not.

P.S. For the record I dont think Cap can move manhattan with a punch, but when it comes to living beings he can achieve the same result as a class 100ers ie knock out other class 100ers

Cap can also cause more structural damage to physical objects than his strength would normally allow due to his knowldege of weak points in general eg decimating Iron Man's armour.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but some people on this forum just look for excuses to make fun of other members. I hope the above posts clarify the matter and puts an end to this BS....probably not.

Nothing against you man. But this isn't going to reduce people making fun of you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Nothing against you man. But this isn't going to reduce people making fun of you.

Why not? If its not its because people want to be ***holes not because ive said anything stupid.

Furthermore when I say punches basically I mean Caps blows eg fist, feet and using shield.

aflheim, what you says gives meaning, and its shit that people makes fun of you.

but still, you are overdoing it, cap can MAYBE punch with 6-7 tons damage, depending on the version of him

Originally posted by The Boxer
aflheim, what you says gives meaning, and its shit that people makes fun of you.

but still, you are overdoing it, cap can MAYBE punch with 6-7 tons damage, depending on the version of him

*sigh* I hope somebody else responds to this post.....

i would say he can deliver about the equivlent of a 50 ton shot using the shield.
remeber drago hiting that machine that would messure the pounds per square inch?
if drago could punch at 2250 psi i think cap could do about 5 tons with a punch

Originally posted by Alfheim
*sigh* I hope somebody else responds to this post.....

What is your problem, i was nice to you, i just pointed out my opinion

Originally posted by xjustice69x
i would say he can deliver about the equivlent of a 50 ton shot using the shield.
remeber drago hiting that machine that would messure the pounds per square inch?
if drago could punch at 2250 psi i think cap could do about 5 tons with a punch

co-signed

Originally posted by The Boxer
What is your problem, i was nice to you, i just pointed out my opinion

sorry.

Does it matter? One punch from a 100 tonner and cap should be paste but Im sure its happened at least once. Your evidence for this is the fact he managed to knock Namor back? About 30 years ago by the looks of that scan.

Originally posted by Magee
Does it matter?


the thread is called Caps punches.

Originally posted by Magee

One punch from a 100 tonner and cap should be paste but Im sure its happened at least once.

thats why he has really fast reflexes.....


Originally posted by Magee

Your evidence for this is the fact he managed to knock Namor back?



Yeah and the scan.


Originally posted by Magee

About 30 years ago by the looks of that scan.

Why you being funny for? The scan is probably the early 90s

Again with the man-crush.

Cap's punches are NOWHERE near the effect of 100 ton punches, despite the fact he's only supposed to be a 1 tonner it'd probably be acceptable to say he could hit as hard as a 5 tonner (through sheer knowing how/when/where to hit).

Originally posted by "V"
Again with the man-crush.

Cap's punches are NOWHERE near the effect of 100 ton punches, despite the fact he's only supposed to be a 1 tonner it'd probably be acceptable to say he could hit as hard as a 5 tonner (through sheer knowing how/when/where to hit).

So why is he able to stun people as strong as Namor? You can see from the scan Namor was stunned.

Hell Namor has taken shots from class a 100s and still been concious. Cap temporarily knocks him out, and ive got man-crush.

You people just love to jump to conclusions and villify people without actually analysing what people are saying.

Theres even one guy saying the scan looks 30 years old....whats wrong with you people?

Originally posted by Alfheim
So why is he able to stun people as strong as Namor? You can see from the scan Namor was stunned.

Hell Namor has taken shots from class a 100s and still been concious. Cap temporarily knocks him out, and ive got man-crush.

You people just love to jump to conclusions and villify people without actually analysing what people are saying.

Theres even one guy saying the scan looks 30 years old....whats wrong with you people?

I'm villifying absolutely nobody, I've stated you have a Man-Crush on Captain America before and I stand by it.

In the single scan you posted Namor was under some sort of control, therefore probably not performing to his usual standards, in what way in that one panel has Captain America knocked him out? He staggered him by a blow to the throat (which would atleast surpise you) or it could be perceived as a blow to whatever was on the back of his throat.

You make a habit out of jumping to conclusions based on single panels, for example your punisher is super-human and things like that. I am in no way trying to villify you, I'm just saying some of the things you say are far from reliable. Especially when it concerns Captain America & the Punisher.

Originally posted by Alfheim
ive got man-crush.

Oh, it's I've and not ive. dur

Going by the real world logic, lifting strenght wouldn't have that much to do with punching power, as it's more like how fast you can throw your hand backed up by your own body.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Going by the real world logic, lifting strenght wouldn't have that much to do with punching power, as it's more like how fast you can throw your hand backed up by your own body.
exactly!
just becaus your stronger then some one does not meen you can punch harder

Hey Guys I understand what Alf is trying to say. He isn't trying to say that Captain America can actually exert 100 tons of force that is a ludicrous statement.

All he is trying to say is that with his shield and knowledge of the human anotomy(Pressure and Weak Points) that Capt can recreate the effect of a 100 ton punch. Which is very reasonable.

So there really isn't a reason to try and jump down his throat if that is what some people were trying to do.

Originally posted by Newjak
Hey Guys I understand what Alf is trying to say. He isn't trying to say that Captain America can actually exert 100 tons of force that is a ludicrous statement.

All he is trying to say is that with his shield and knowledge of the human anotomy(Pressure and Weak Points) that Capt can recreate the effect of a 100 ton punch. Which is very reasonable.

So there really isn't a reason to try and jump down his throat if that is what some people were trying to do.
yea im proly lowballing saying 50 ton shots with the sheild cuz he does hurt some heavy hitters with the shield

Originally posted by Alfheim
This is in response to my comment were I said that Cap can replicate class 100 force, im trying to clear this up because basically KMC members are now trying to spread **** about me. If you misunderstood me fine...but this is what im trying to say.







Im sorry but some people on this forum just look for excuses to make fun of other members. I hope the above posts clarify the matter and puts an end to this BS....probably not.

P.S. For the record I dont think Cap can move manhattan with a punch, but when it comes to living beings he can achieve the same result as a class 100ers ie knock out other class 100ers

Cap can also cause more structural damage to physical objects than his strength would normally allow due to his knowldege of weak points in general eg decimating Iron Man's armour.

crylaugh hysterical2

Originally posted by batdude123
crylaugh hysterical2
cosigned

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but some people on this forum just look for excuses to make fun of other members.

They don't have to look far when people supply all the ammo, big shot.

Originally posted by Newjak
Hey Guys I understand what Alf is trying to say. He isn't trying to say that Captain America can actually exert 100 tons of force that is a ludicrous statement.

All he is trying to say is that with his shield and knowledge of the human anotomy(Pressure and Weak Points) that Capt can recreate the effect of a 100 ton punch. Which is very reasonable.

So there really isn't a reason to try and jump down his throat if that is what some people were trying to do.

Originally posted by Newjak

ecpt he said feet and fists as well......

Originally posted by capt it up
ecpt he said with out his shield........ That definitely makes things harder on Cap but if Cap is a 5 tonner which he has shown some good feats to suggest things. Hitting weak points could still have the same effect. Although it would be very unlikely.

Originally posted by Newjak
That definitely makes things harder on Cap but if Cap is a 5 tonner which he has shown some good feats to suggest things. Hitting weak points could still have the same effect. Although it would be very unlikely.

capt not a 5 tonner and it never been shown that he is either.


people were saying at best capt could hit with 5 ton force.


alf jsut being rediculous as always

Originally posted by capt it up
capt not a 5 tonner and it never been shown that he is either.


people were saying at best capt could hit with 5 ton force.


alf jsut being rediculous as always I can agree with hitting with 5 ton force.

Although it doesn't change the fact that hitting weak points with any kind of ton force would could hurt a low class 100 guy. It is kind of a toss up as to whether or not without the shield cap could say hurt a 100 ton guy.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why not? If its not its because people want to be ***holes not because ive said anything stupid.
People make fun of you because you're thin skinned enough to create a thread about how you don't want to be made fun of.

Grow a pair of nuts you freakishly effeminate wack-job.

Originally posted by long pig
People make fun of you because you're thin skinned enough to create a thread about how you don't want to be made fun of.

Grow a pair of nuts you freakishly effeminate wack-job.

co-signed

Cap is trained in martial arts, he knows pressure points and such.... that can make a difference against stronger enemies.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Cap is trained in martial arts, he knows pressure points and such.... that can make a difference against stronger enemies.
not against people who are 50 times stronger then him or more.....

hhmmm what about chi?
like bruce lee's one inch punch.

Alright, look I catch what you're selling here but very few people are buying. Such is the way with an open-market advertisement like this sometimes. My suggestion is pull a Crystal Pepsi and smother this topic...act like it never happened and you have no idea what people are talking about.

Originally posted by "V"
I'm villifying absolutely nobody, I've stated you have a Man-Crush on Captain America before and I stand by it.

You dont know what you're talking about.


Originally posted by "V"

In the single scan you posted Namor was under some sort of control, therefore probably not performing to his usual standards,


Er, bro. No he wasnt but there is no evidence to prove that mind control affects durability. Hell if anything it could be argued that it makes you more durable, its like trying to knock out a drunk person.


Originally posted by "V"

in what way in that one panel has Captain America knocked him out?


You see, help me out here this is why people like you annoy me. Look what I said.....

Originally posted by Alfheim

So why is he able to stun people as strong as Namor? You can see from the scan Namor was stunned.

I used the word stun, you know like when a boxer gets hit. The boxer does not become unconscious but is momentarily dazed.


Originally posted by "V"

He staggered him by a blow to the throat (which would atleast surpise you)

I see....so Namor has taken shots from The Hulk before his throat has superhuman durability, hes floating in the water momentarily.....and thats because he was....suprised?

Maybe, just maybe he was momentraily stunned....but hey lets be objective about this and lets assume he was suprised.

Originally posted by "V"

or it could be perceived as a blow to whatever was on the back of his throat.



Er no....that part of the body is called the neck...and its the back of the neck, so its called the throat now?


a) Cap says he was aiming for the throat
b) Cap doesnt touch whats on the back of his neck. Do you want me to draw around his hand with a red marker?


Originally posted by "V"

You make a habit out of jumping to conclusions based on single panels,

What like you? Where the back of the neck is suddenly the throat.




Originally posted by "V"

for example your punisher is super-human

What you wanna refer to ONE thread? Furthermore I was'nt even that serious and I mentioned that but obvoulsy you have forgotten.

Originally posted by "V"

and things like that.

What like Cap is superhuman? You mean the thread Cap is superhuman? You mean the thread where loads of people agreed with me. You have a selective memory, im not saying I dont make mistakes but all yopu have done is remebered the negative things. Lets take a look at what you have said about my post:

a) Cap strikes Namor, Namor is temporarily motionless. Namor has taken shots from The Hulk before, you came to the conclusion that he was "suprised" when he was most likely stunned.

b) The back of the neck is now the throat. Does that sound like somebody who is being objective?


Originally posted by "V"


I am in no way trying to villify you, I'm just saying some of the things you say are far from reliable. Especially when it concerns Captain America & the Punisher.

See above.

Originally posted by long pig
People make fun of you because you're thin skinned enough to create a thread about how you don't want to be made fun of.

Grow a pair of nuts you freakishly effeminate wack-job.

**** you. Treat people the way in which you would like to be treated.

Long Pig is into bondage.


NEVER tell him that saying Alf.

Even thow a pressure point, has a greater affect than a normal punch, you have to keep in mind that people like Namor's muscle's are far more durable that cap's, meaning that while cap would hit a normal person with it and would bring him down, the same strike would be like a little tap on Namor.
He's just not strong enough to put enough force in the pressure point strike to level a guy who's 100 ton.
let's say cap is a 1 tonner a 100 tonners muscle's are also 100 time's more durable than cap's.

and the whole body should be 100 time's stronger iff not than the guy won't be able to lift the 100 ton, iff he had like weak leg muscle or weak bone's.
So cap won't be able to find a point weak enough for him to strike it, and get some effect out of it.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Even thow a pressure point, has a greater affect than a normal punch, you have to keep in mind that people like Namor's muscle's are far more durable that cap's, meaning that while cap would hit a normal person with it and would bring him down, the same strike would be like a little tap on Namor.
He's just not strong enough to put enough force in the pressure point strike to level a guy who's 100 ton.
let's say cap is a 1 tonner a 100 tonners muscle's are also 100 time's more durable than cap's.

and the whole body should be 100 time's stronger iff not than the guy won't be able to lift the 100 ton, iff he had like weak leg muscle or weak bone's.
So cap won't be able to find a point weak enough for him to strike it, and get some effect out of it.

1.It could be argued that Cap would then hit the weak point harder. For example Cap knocked the Rhino out by jump kicking him on the bridge of the nose. Cap would punch a normal person on the bridge of the nose. I've seen scans of Cap fly kicking Mr Hyde in the throat, Cap would not fly kick a normal person in the throat.

2. Hes been doing it for years Caps knowldege of fighting is like a superpower. Eventhough a class 100s weak points are still strong Cap can still stun them because he is so good. Comic book physics.

Originally posted by Alfheim
1.It could be argued that Cap would then hit the weak point harder. For example Cap knocked the Rhino out by jump kicking him on the bridge of the nose.

2. Hes been doing it for years Caps knowldege of fighting is like a superpower. Eventhough a class 100s weak points are still strong Cap can still stun them because he is so good. Comic book physics.

Euh the jumping part wouldn't really work, for a real pressure point since Namor issn't like 20 feet, the pressure point is not like the whole arm.
It's a "point".
Iff cap would jump kick it he wouldn't be able to hit it just the surface, of the arm.

Now he might be able to jump to the stomach yet I think a person like namors abs are way to strong to get him to lose his breath.
Might work with the shield, but don't think it would.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Euh the jumping part wouldn't really work, for a real pressure point since Namor issn't like 20 feet, the pressure point is not like the whole arm.
It's a "point".

Iff cap would jump kick it he wouldn't be able to hit it just the surface, of the arm.

The solar plexus is a pressure point. Thats big enough to put your foot or hand into. Not all pressure points are tiny. Even if it is a small pressure point he doesnt have to jump kick a pressure point, im just saying he can apply more force. Normally to some pressure points you apply minimal force...like a touch. When he is fighting a brick he can apply full force to that pressure point.

Originally posted by Brutacus

Now he might be able to jump to the stomach yet I think a person like namors abs are way to strong to get him to lose his breath.
Might work with the shield, but don't think it would.

Yeah also remember that the MAs in the MU are nothing like we have in real life. Cap can see bullets for crying out loud. Now I know that applies to reflexes but what im saying is that there skills are like superhuman powers therefore they can do the seemingly impossible.

Hell Cap knows about chi as well for all we know he is using that to help him as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The solar plexus is a pressure point. Thats big enough to put your foot or hand into. Not all pressure points are tiny. Even if it is a small pressure point he doesnt have to jump kick a pressure point, im just saying he can apply more force. Normally to some pressure points you apply minimal force...like a touch. When he is fighting a brick he can apply full force to that pressure point.



Yeah also remember that the MAs in the MU are nothing like we have in real life. Cap can see bullets for crying out loud. Now I know that applies to reflexes but what im saying is that there skills are like superhuman powers therefore they can do the seemingly impossible.

Hell Cap knows about chi as well for all we know he is using that to help him as well.

Dude I know a pressure point issn't allway's small don't work in a hospital for nothing.
And the solare plexus is pretty much a level 1 point.
To really do lasting damage you atleas have to do nerve strike's.
And no he can't apply enough force, he aint heavy or strong enough to put down a 100 tonner.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Dude I know a pressure point issn't allway's small don't work in a hospital for nothing.
And the solare plexus is pretty much a level 1 point.
To really do lasting damage you atleas have to do nerve strike's.
And no he can't apply enough force, he aint heavy or strong enough to put down a 100 tonner.

Bro this is what we call IDLI, IDH (I Dont Like It, It Didn't Happen). Cap has been stunning class 100s since the dawn of time what you seem to be saying is that its PIS because it doesnt make any sense. The explanation for this is....in the MU even if you are vastly inferior in strength if your are skilled enough you can knock out somebody who is vastly stronger than you. Caps fighting skill is like a super power, it may not make sense in the real world but in the MU he is skilled enough to do this. He may not know exactly how he does it but he can...again maybe his knoweldge of chi helps him.

Mantis has peak human strength but she still knocked out Thor

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Abilities

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

Are you going to tell me that it never happened eventhough it states that in her bio and is an event that happened in mainstream marvel reality?

The MU is a different universe to this one and has different rules. In the MU skill is a substitute for superhuman powers thats just how it is. Peter got bitten by a radioactive spider did he get cancer, no he got powers, because that is what happens in the MU.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro this is what we call IDLI, IDH (I Dont Like It, It Didn't Happen). Cap has been stunning class 100s since the dawn of time what you seem to be saying is that its PIS because it doesnt make any sense. The explanation for this is....in the MU even if you are vastly inferior in strength if your are skilled enough you can knock out somebody who is vastly stronger than you. Caps fighting skill is like a super power, it may not make sense in the real world but in the MU he is skilled enough to do this. He may not know exactly how he does it but he can...again maybe his knoweldge of chi helps him.

Mantis has peak human strength but she still knocked out Thor

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Abilities

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

Are you going to tell me that it never happened eventhough it states that in her bio and is an event that happened in mainstream marvel reality?

The MU is a different universe to this one and has different rules. In the MU skill is a substitute for superhuman powers thats just how it is. Peter got bitten by a radioactive spider did he get cancer, no he got powers, because that is what happens in the MU.

Hey spiderman also beat firelord it happend so I guess since he done it once he can do it to other herald lvl characters??

Originally posted by Brutacus
Hey spiderman also beat firelord it happend so I guess since he done it once he can do it to other herald lvl characters??

How may times has Spideman beaten Herald level character? Its a one off. If you like at what it says about Mantis.....

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

It says being(s) so Mantis has done this on numerous occassions.

Furthermore Cap has been stunning people vastly stronger than him 100s of times. Look at the forum rules below.

No SvFL

For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.

The rules say that if something happens enough times its not SvFL.

Originally posted by Alfheim
How may times has Spideman beaten Herald level character? Its a one off. If you like at what it says about Mantis.....

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

It says being(s) so Mantis has done this on numerous occassions.

Furthermore Cap has been stunning people vastly stronger than him 100s of times. Look at the forum rules below.

No SvFL

For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.

The rules say that if something happens enough times its not SvFL.

Ok I can see this mantis do it .
So you compare Cap to her????

Originally posted by Brutacus
Ok I can see this mantis do it .
So you compare Cap to her????

No Mantis is better but YOU said that Cap cant do it because he is not strong enough.

According to your logic Mantis shouldnt be able to do it either she maybe a better fighter but she still does not have enough strength and her skills are not classified as a power.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No Mantis is better but YOU said that Cap cant do it because he is not strong enough.

According to your logic Mantis shouldnt be able to do it either she maybe a better fighter but she still does not have enough strength and her skills are not classified as a power.

Through training with the Priests of Pama, Mantis attained "complete control" over her body, achieving peak human agility, the ability to accelerate her recuperative powers through force of will, and an empathic nature enabling her to sense the emotions of others as "psychic vibrations." Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

This is the power of this mantis correct?

So since wenn has cap been trained like this???
He aint so he won't be able to do the same like her.
That would mean he needs more strenght to do it than her, and he doesn't have it.
Does caps character bios stated that he can K.O. or Stun Thor with a pressure point???
No it doesn't.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Through training with the Priests of Pama, Mantis attained "complete control" over her body, achieving peak human agility, the ability to accelerate her recuperative powers through force of will, and an empathic nature enabling her to sense the emotions of others as "psychic vibrations." Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

This is the power of this mantis correct?

So since wenn has cap been trained like this???

Cap knows how to use Chi which involves meditation this is something which Mantis does on a more advanced level.

Does any of the above say superhuman strength? Lets have a closer look shall we.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Through training with the Priests of Pama, Mantis attained "complete control" over her body, achieving peak human agility,


control over her body and peak human agility. So you can knock a class 100 with complete control over your body which gives you peak human agility? Hell Cap may not have complete control over his body but he has at least peak human agility.

Originally posted by Brutacus

the ability to accelerate her recuperative powers through force of will,

Recupertive means healing? When have you ever seen anybody using their abiltiy to heal themselves to knock somebody out? Does Wolverine use his adamntuim claws to injure people or his healing factor?

Originally posted by Brutacus

and an empathic nature enabling her to sense the emotions of others as "psychic vibrations."


That gives her superhuman strength does it? No thats something seperate just because you can sense somebodies emotions does not mean you can use that power to knock somebody out with your fists. When have you ever seen heros with empathic powers knocking out people with class 100 strength with their fists

and the most important bit....

Originally posted by Brutacus

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

If you look at what it says above what enables her to knock people out is NOT her control over other peoples emotions, NOT her healing but....


Originally posted by Brutacus

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

All this other stuff she can do is irrelevant it her knowldege of nerve endings that enable her to knock people like Thor out, but according to your logic she should not be able to do it because she is not strong enough.



Originally posted by Brutacus

He aint so he won't be able to do the same like her.

No at as well as she can but he can still hurt people vastly stronger than him.


Originally posted by Brutacus

That would mean he needs more strenght to do it than her, and he doesn't have it.

What on earth are you talking about? People who have class 100 strength are still vastly durable even in the weak areas. Neither Cap nor Mantis have superhuman strength. Eventhough Mantis is the better fighter she still should not be able to do it because her skills dont give her superhuman strength.


Originally posted by Brutacus

Does caps character bios stated that he can K.O. or Stun Thor with a pressure point???
No it doesn't.

Yeah but do you know why its mentioned in her bio???? Because it happened in a comic, therefore the events where Cap hurts class 100s in comics still apply.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap knows how to use Chi which involves meditation this is something which Mantis does on a more advanced level.

Does any of the above say superhuman strength? Lets have a closer look shall we.



control over her body and peak human agility. So you can knock a class 100 with complete control over your body which gives you peak human agility? Hell Cap may not have complete control over his body but he has at least peak human agility.



Recupertive means healing? When have you ever seen anybody using their abiltiy to heal themselves to knock somebody out? Does Wolverine use his adamntuim claws to injure people or his healing factor?




That gives her superhuman strength does it? No thats something seperate just because you can sense somebodies emotions does not mean you can use that power to knock somebody out with your fists. When have you ever seen heros with empathic powers knocking out people with class 100 strength with their fists

and the most important bit....



If you look at what it says above what enables her to knock people out is NOT her control over other peoples emotions, NOT her healing but....




All this other stuff she can do is irrelevant it her knowldege of nerve endings that enable her to knock people like Thor out, but according to your logic she should not be able to do it because she is not strong enough.





No at as well as she can but he can still hurt people vastly stronger than him.




What on earth are you talking about? People who have class 100 strength are still vastly durable even in the weak areas. Neither Cap nor Mantis have superhuman strength. Eventhough Mantis is the better fighter she still should not be able to do it because her skills dont give her superhuman strength.




Yeah but do you know why its mentioned in her bio???? Because it happened in a comic, therefore the events where Cap hurts class 100s in comics still apply.

Let's use a other character with almost the same physical abilities as cap only he's slightly beter since he's a inhuman, talking about karnak, he also can see the weak spots in a object or being, yet he could never k.o. the hulk with it who's a class 100.

So you use mantis as example I will use karnak as example, he's stronger and also is one of the best with the use of pressure points, still he couldn't do it.
So what does this say?
That even thow it might work for manits for some reason, it won't work for karnak, like you said before comic book logic's.
So you can't use mantis nor karnak as a example for cap since every character has his own character bio.
And since it has never been stated in caps bio he won't be able to do it.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Let's use a other character with almost the same physical abilities as cap only he's slightly beter since he's a inhuman, talking about karnak, he also can see the weak spots in a object or being, yet he could never k.o. the hulk with it who's a class 100.

So you use mantis as example I will use karnak as example, he's stronger and also is one of the best with the use of pressure points, still he couldn't do it.
So what does this say?

Originally posted by long pig


First we have Karnak hitting Thor so hard Thor drops his hammer. Karnak almost breaks Thor's wrist.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8882/karnakthorbe4.th.jpg

Just because he cant knock out the Hulk doesnt mean he cant knock otu somebody else. If Karnak is good enough to make Thor drop his hammer with a blow something tells me he ccan knock Thor out...

Originally posted by long pig

That even thow it might work for manits for some reason, it won't work for karnak, like you said before comic book logic's.

Er no it works for Mantis, Cap and Karnak...see above.

Originally posted by long pig

So you can't use mantis nor karnak as a example for cap since every character has his own character bio.
And since it has never been stated in caps bio he won't be able to do it.

Ok let me explain, and try and pay attention. The reason why it says mantis can knock Thor out....is.....because......it....happened in a comic. Therefore even if it doesnt state that Cap has knocked out a class 100 er in his bio comics can be used as evidence to say that Cap can either stun, hurt or knock out a class 100er because Cap has stuned and hurt class 100ers for ages.

as long as it was briefly mentioned, how the hell do they explain batman sneaking up on superman? is it like some weird pseudo-telepathic will extension...you know, bats uses his chi to extend his will not to be noticed or something?

because there's no way that batman skulking and creeping is quieter than heartbeats on the other side of the world and what have you. that doesn't even make sense on comic terms.

Originally posted by Alfheim
his tech.





Yeah thats why I said that Mantis was better than him. You're wasting my time arent you?




Like doing reps with 1100lbs easily. Which means he could benchpress 1500lbs in one rep. Superhuman strength begins at 1000lbs....so yeah Cap is superhuman.




So you ignore high end feats?




Er....excuse me we dont ignore high end feats.....do the forum rules so high end feast are ignored?



Go to this link educate yourself...

http://herochat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100779





You haven't proven anything. Im too tired to go into detail to show you how you're wasting my time.

No you are all wasting our time with you trying to say cap hits like a 100 tonner, dude.
Check back on the first page 9 out of 10 people say he can't and won't, so dude either your subborn or a fanboy.

High end feats are ignored iff they don't look right like Cap K.O. a 100 tonner, everybody knows this on this forum.

I think I've been on this forum a little while longer than you my friend so I know the rule's.

And we also have a name for people like you FANBOY.

And now I'm going to eat so bother some other forum with your cap fantasies.

**** if let me help you...

Originally posted by capt it up
ecpt he said feet and fists as well......

Cap huts this guy with fists and shield

http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers177101dt.jpg

This guy takes shots from Wonder Man...who yes lifts 95 tons..so Korvac could possible be around 95 ton strength range or slightly highier.

Er I think this hurt Namor.

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=141ta.jpg

Cap hurts the controller who taken most of Namors strength. Namor is class 100 which means anything above a 100 if you look at Namor feats out of water they can go into 100s ie....200, 300 500....so most of Namor strength would still be class 100

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica366093vp.jpg

Then of course theres this...

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2299/captainamerica36514od1.jpg

Originally posted by Brutacus
No you are all wasting our time with you trying to say cap hits like a 100 tonner, dude.
Check back on the first page 9 out of 10 people say he can't and won't, so dude either your subborn or a fanboy.

High end feats are ignored iff they don't look right like Cap K.O. a 100 tonner, everybody knows this on this forum.

I think I've been on this forum a little while longer than you my friend so I know the rule's.

And we also have a name for people like you FANBOY.

And now I'm going to eat so bother some other forum with your cap fantasies.

You're a complete waste of time. Mantis can knock out class 100ers but Cap cant. Double standards.

Again...high end feats are not ignored. Show me where its says that on the rules and stop wasting my time.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You're a complete waste of time. Mantis can knock out class 100ers but Cap cant. Double standards.

Again...high end feats are not ignored. Show me where its says that on the rules and stop wasting my time.

No you are a complete waste of OUR time.
What will the next thread be cap can run as fast as flash with his skill???

Originally posted by Brutacus
No you are a complete waste of OUR time.
What will the next thread be cap can run as fast as flash with his skill???

So you're not going to look at the scans? So you're debating by ignoring everything im posting?

Originally posted by Alfheim
So you're not going to look at the scans? So you're debating by ignoring everything im posting?

Where in those scans does he knock someone out???
Namor is up in a second, the guy in the first scan just throws him out of a window.
And the last scan you can see him jump kicking the controller in the face, yet what happend after that???
He K.O'ed him???
We don't see him do that in those scans.

God I'm starting to really hate posting here at this forum (here it goes), but I agree that he can multiply the force with his skill, but I don't think it'll be on the equivalent of something as strong as 100 tons with the velocity of it (100 tons is a 5th of a million pounds.)

It's like me using my technique against a bear, my training will only do so much but I don't stand a chance. The bear will still win if I fight it with my bear hands. And I *might* be able to knock it back, but not kill it with my bear hands. That's more of a low showing for Namor.

Heres a couple more...

http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg

Whys Namor rubbing his head?

http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048157yg.jpg

As far as im concerned if Cap can punch Namor so hard he lands on his back and he gets up rubbing his head Cap can knock him out.

Of course Namor we beat Cap 8/10 because Namor is very strong, fast, smart and a good fighter.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Heres a couple more...

http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg

Whys Namor rubbing his head?

http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048157yg.jpg

As far as im concerned if Cap can punch Namor so hard he lands on his back and he gets up rubbing his head Cap can knock him out.

Of course Namor we beat Cap 8/10 because Namor is very strong, fast, smart and a good fighter.

Ok maybe I was abite to fast by saying he wouldn't hurt them, since your right we are debating comics, so I guess it's possible since you also provided with enough scans I can't ignore.

Yet to say he can hit just as hard as a 100 tonner with his pressure points I think it still aint true, sure he will hit harder with it than wenn he would hit someone with only a normal punch, do they hurt them stun them or will they feel it sure, heck it's a comic so they have to put up a fight to make the comic intresting for people to buy it, but doesn't that count for every character they want to show of good, let's use gladiator or rhino, they are two of the biggest jobbers in marvel, they use them to let a character like spiderman or cannonbal look great.
Even thow they might have used those two to much.
Yet wenn they would have to show that the 100 tonner is unbeatble
(For example Gladiator vs Vulcan fight) than all of sudden the guy like cap or any other low level in strenght can't hurt them anymore.
Or even other high strenght power guy's can't seem to hurt them it's all about the role the character has in a the comic is he the mayor character than 9 out of 10 time's he will win the fight, even iff it means he will be beaten by villians first, but in the end he will find a way to win.

Ok i'll respond to your post tommorrow, but at least were getting somewhere.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok i'll respond to your post tommorrow, but at least were getting somewhere.

Well I guess, I thought to much about how a body would be affected by a pressure point in real live wenn it's 100 time's stronger.
My bad.
Still in comics the role they play in a surten comic also play's a big role, iff they are the main character they will have great showings.

Originally posted by Brutacus
Well I guess, I thought to much about how a body would be affected by a pressure point in real live wenn it's 100 time's stronger.
My bad.

Yeah its a different Universe with different rules..

Originally posted by Brutacus

Still in comics the role they play in a surten comic also play's a big role, iff they are the main character they will have great showings.

True sometimes, but the fact of the matter is Cap keeps on doing it again and again and again. Also why have the writers decided to give Cap his abilities why dont they just give him superhuman strength and be done with it?


The fact that he keeps doing it implies that he is doing what he is supposed to be doing.

Sure some characters are jobbers like Rhino but Namor is not and Cap has done it to so many different people it cant be a jobbing, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing.

Originally posted by Alfheim
There you go

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2299/captainamerica36514od1.jpg

No Cap does not touch the disk on the back of his neck.....



What you mean this....

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=141ta.jpg

Yeah he is but you can clearly see that Caps kick hurt him. The issue here is are Caps punches good enough to hurt, stun or KO somebody in the class 100 range. If Cap can hit Namor so hard that Namor lands on his back then it must have hurt.

If boxer A knocks boxer B to the ground would you think that boxer A could not knock boxer B out? Furthermore i have seen boxing matches were boxes have been dazed and recovered, I saw one match were a boxer actually got KOed and recovered before he hit the ropes. Recovery is not the issue here, the issue here is wether Cap can hurt, stun or KO somebody in class 100 range...what happens afterwards is irrelevant.




Er yeah but Caps punches were still clearly hurting him, but they were not enough to put him down in this instance.

After all you did say this.....



Some of my scans prove you wrong



No he didnt but remember as I said earlier on Cap can either hurt, stun or KO with or without his shield.

The first cans shows him KOing Namor. Eventhough a non-mindcontrolled Namor could beat Cap, we are dealing with Namor's durability not his fighting prowess, there is no proof to indicate that mind control affects durability.


The second can shows Cap stunning Namor with his foot.

The third scans Caps blows hurting Korvac, what happens afterwards is irrelevant.

The last scan shows Cap hurting Controller with his jump kick.

If Cap can stun and hurt people in class 100 range why cant he knock them out.

If boxer A was able to stun boxer B is it illogical to think boxer A could knock boxer B out?



I could respond to this post, but I can see your hearts not really into it...so I think im gonna allow it. Dont get me wrong im not pissed at you or anything (you know what I can be like). I'm not annoyed at you, but this forum sometimes... grrr...

Let me ask...

Can Karate Kid punch with 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 tons because he is EXTREMELY skilled?

Can can maybe punch with twice or thrice his powerlevel

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not annoyed at you, but this forum sometimes... grrr...


of course you arnt if any thing you be laughing at the fact some one thinks that capt through skill can cause 100 ton characters just as much damage as if another 100 hit them.......

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
but I agree that he can multiply the force with his skill, but I don't think it'll be on the equivalent of something as strong as 100 tons with the velocity of it (100 tons is a 5th of a million pounds.)

Well ok but neither do I. I dont think that Cap can hit with the same amount of force as a 100 tons with skill. I think Cap can use his skill to make his punches have the same affect as a somebody in the class 100 range for example being able to hurt, stun or ko somebody in the class 100 range.

As you said Cap can multiply his force but Cap aint destroying a mountain.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

It's like me using my technique against a bear, my training will only do so much but I don't stand a chance. The bear will still win if I fight it with my bear hands. And I *might* be able to knock it back, but not kill it with my bear hands.

Ok so your using you and the bear as an example of Cap vs Namor? If so the problem with that example is that Cap has been able to stun Namor on three occasions. If you had knocked a bear on its back twice and knocked out a bear on another occassion I would beleive that you could defeat a bear....but I dont think Cap could kill Namor unless he used the envinronment....i dunno judo throwing him in a lava pit or something.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

That's more of a low showing for Namor.

I would disagree if its happened three times and Cap has been able to do it to people on a similar strength level as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim


No SvFL

For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.

The rules say that if something happens enough times its not SvFL.

Originally posted by capt it up
of course you arnt if any thing you be laughing at the fact some one thinks that capt through skill can cause 100 ton characters just as much damage as if another 100 hit them.......

So has Namor fought people in the class 100 range without being stunned?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah its a different Universe with different rules..



True sometimes, but the fact of the matter is Cap keeps on doing it again and again and again. Also why have the writers decided to give Cap his abilities why dont they just give him superhuman strength and be done with it?


The fact that he keeps doing it implies that he is doing what he is supposed to be doing.

Sure some characters are jobbers like Rhino but Namor is not and Cap has done it to so many different people it cant be a jobbing, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing. So are we to assume then, that Batman can do the same on the forum, since he does it in comics, and consistantly, just as Cap?
And his durability too, since he's taken blows from the likes of Mongul, OMAC, a few different gods, Metallo, etc?

Originally posted by Juntai
So are we to assume then, that Batman can do the same on the forum, since he does it in comics, and consistantly, just as Cap?
And his durability too, since he's taken blows from the likes of Mongul, OMAC, a few different gods, Metallo, etc?

Originally posted by Alfheim

No SvFL

For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.

The rules say that if something happens enough times its not SvFL.

The problem though is I cant really comment about Batman he is supposed not to have any powers, but if you look at Cap from even when he awoke from the ice you can see he is clearly superhuman.

I am a Cap expert not Batman. I dont really want to comment on Batman but I do know that Cap has been doing stuff like this for YEARS.

Oh and furrthermore its stated in Mantis's bio on marvel.com that Mantis can knock people as strong as Thor out. So according to marvel if you have enough skill you can knock out a God even if you have peak strength

what your talking abotu would not matter alf. By saying capt can hit with 100 ton damage.

is saying any top tier can.



so you must thing deathstroke can pwn capt then

Originally posted by capt it up
what your talking abotu would not matter alf. By saying capt can hit with 100 ton damage.

is saying any top tier can.



so you must thing deathstroke can pwn capt then

*sigh*

Originally posted by capt it up
what your talking abotu would not matter alf. By saying capt can hit with 100 ton damage.

is saying any top tier can.

so you must thing deathstroke can pwn capt then

That's the point. Cap doesn't hit with 100 ton damage. He doesn't need to, because his skill allows him to hit weak ponts with precision. That's how he's able to defeat super-strong foes. Not with force, but with precision.

It's like Muhammed Ali. He was the greatest boxer ever, not because he was the hardest-hitting (he wasn't), but because of his skill and technique.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
That's the point. Cap doesn't hit with 100 ton damage. He doesn't need to, because his skill allows him to hit weak ponts with precision. That's how he's able to defeat super-strong foes. Not with force, but with precision.


Thank you.

You're welcome.