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Yep Bane vs Vader. Tatooine. But..theres a twist. While Bane fights Vader, he has to face and is distracted/weaken by allfg's poor argument as well ass-kissing. Who wins?

Bane owns him as badly as jocks own Doctor Who geeks.

Originally posted by allfg
Bane owns him as badly as jocks own Doctor Who geeks.

Good analyzing. Heres more:

Jocks > Doctor Who Geeks > People that jacks off from Bane porn.

Who's this? ROTS Vader, or suited-Vader?

Not a good fight at all. Bane kills Vader.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Not a good fight at all. Bane kills Vader.
Agreed.

Bane beat him.

Vader r eat him.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader r eat him. r eat him? beat him? or eat him?

He r camp here. spraynpray ftw.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=038
Dog toss r headshot Bane.

I can't decide right now. I will wait to pass judgement after more of the dark times have been released and we get to see Vader's exploits.

Vader r haxd pigman

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=121

Close fight, I give it to Vader in the toughest fight he's ever been in not including his legendary duel with Kenobi.

What Vader, by the way?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
What Vader, by the way?

That's the hell what i asked posts ago, though nobody seemed to read it

It's depends who has a better chance of winning. If you think

Suit Vader > Human Vader, use Suit Vader. If vice versa use human vader.;

This is a good match. Bane would probably win a saber fight, but Vader is incredibly strong in the force after 20 years learning from Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This is a good match. Bane would probably win a saber fight, but Vader is incredibly strong in the force after 20 years learning from Sidious.

I agree with you, Darth Sexy. Bane could probably take Vader on a saber fight, but in Force powers Vader could take this. Though, overall, I think Bane beats Vader.

I honestly think Vader would win trough the force

Originally posted by Riverollv
I agree with you, Darth Sexy. Bane could probably take Vader on a saber fight, but in Force powers Vader could take this. Though, overall, I think Bane beats Vader. No, overall vader > bane.

In saber too for that matter, why? When kasim switched to jarkai, it was unpredictable to bane and it is something bane never seen before.
As with vaders custamised form V, It was also described unpredictable and caused the jedi to get slaughtered in a saber match. Bane uses djem so and so does vader, and vades djem so is clearly above banes.

Ac has time and again proven vader > bane

Bane wins this. I don't have much time, so I'll just make an argument for him winning in a lightsaber battle.

Physically, he's stated as being the strongest sith ever, according to Zephiel (who doesn't lie). That's Vader's main asset, and he's still beat in that department.

Speedwise, Bane can move at speeds faster than the eyes of powerful force users such as Kas'im can see. Even in EU sources that contradict the movies, Vader's never depicted at speeds anywhere near that.

Bane knows every single move and sequence to the saberstaff perfectly (all 7 of Kas'im's perfected forms), which is completely alien to Vader.

The orbalisk armour is completely immune to the cutting power of a lightsaber, making Bane virtually invincible in a lightsaber battle, with only just one vulnerable spot (his face).

Vader just doesn't compare.

Originally posted by allfg

Physically, he's stated as being the strongest sith ever, according to Zephiel (who doesn't lie). That's Vader's main asset, and he's still beat in that department. Um zephiel does lie, he claims nihilus weakens his opponents before draining them. And nowhere does it state that bane is physically the strongest sith. By the way vader has demonstrated greater physical strength than bane, RODV Movies EU etc.. Can i say wtf owned?
Originally posted by allfg

Speedwise, Bane can move at speeds faster than the eyes of powerful force users such as Kas'im can see. Even in EU sources that contradict the movies, Vader's never depicted at speeds anywhere near that. Speedwise bane only demonstrated this abiltity with an inferior duelist, and it was only one strike unlike palpatines and lukes battle.
And please dont go by the "Movie higher canon" excuse. Movies state that hutts and toydarian are immune to mind tricks, yet bastila did it in kotor. In rodv it was stated that vader countered and sliced at at jedi with lightning speed. The bottom line is, what vader did what vader did, bastila did what bastila did. What has happened has happened and for vaders case, It happened for more than one occassion and it was stated by luke that vader was never trying to kill him in the movies
Originally posted by allfg

Bane knows every single move and sequence to the saberstaff perfectly (all 7 of Kas'im's perfected forms), which is completely alien to Vader. And maul knew every sequence to his DB saber and mastered the juyo form and guess what happened to him, Vader snapped his saber in half with little effort.
Again bane could not face kasim when he switched to jarkai because it is unpredictable. Now the PT jedi themselves knew every sequence of the saber art yet they couldnt face vaders version of djem so simply because 1) They have never seen it before 2) It is stated to be unpredictable in the novel.
Again a double bladed saber isnt "alien" to vader. He fought several opponents which includes maul who wields double bladed weapon. By your logic lumiya should pwn mace and yoda because they have never seen a light whip before. Again you defy logic
Originally posted by allfg

The orbalisk armour is completely immune to the cutting power of a lightsaber, making Bane virtually invincible in a lightsaber battle, with only just one vulnerable spot (his face). Right, lightsnake already owned you in that part. Darth subjeckt and just about everybody for that matter smashed you to pieces. The orbalisks will break if hit with greater force. Now let me state the law of physics. Greater the acceleration and strength
= to greater the pressure and impact and in TOTJ, it ripped through mandalorian iron whom is also "immune" to lightsaber strikes.

Cortosis is also immune to saber strikes and yet in the game star wars: obi-wan. Obi wan hacks at a soldier wearing full cortosis, No effect, This time he swings harder, it breaks through
Originally posted by allfg

Vader just doesn't compare. You bet he does, im happy to see you dump bastila and re-marriage to bane

Originally posted by Allfg
i am 15 this year,
i like girls alot,
i also like strong men,
i like to dig nose and scratch ass,
i love tight ass,
soft and warm.
I love to sock and masturbate 10 x a week
I want to meet bill gates (i want to grab his ass)


Thats from the PM you sent me. Naughty naughty!
(Borat)You are clean.....NOT(borat)
Now why not make history repeat itself anf go fight with bane naked during the next presidents election ooohh i want to see you suck his dick! And please if you need help, ill lend you my super hardcore bane porn DVD staring ashlee simpson and baldie darth bane.

Firstly, if you want to prove that Zephiel ever lied, you need to post a link and quote, and not be so damn vague.

Secondly, I don't ever recall Zephiel lying and he doesn't strike me as someone who would.



In one of the sourcebooks it does, and it makes sense.

1. Bane is pretty much naturally as physically strong as humans get. He was described as a mountain of muscle, before leaving Apatros, he had literally been working on the mines his entire life. He constantly received beatings from his father, and constantly took part in brawls in the mines. He was also the strongest of all the miners.

2. The degree to which he could amp up his speed was phenomenal, and given that he was taught how to do the same with his strength at the BoD Korriban Academy, I see no reason to suggest that he couldn't just amp up his strength to the same degree. Speed and strength generally go hand in hand, so given how fast he is, it makes sense that he'd be damn strong too.

3. The orbalisk armour constantly strengthens and pumps up Bane's muscles, and keeps them constantly flexed.

4. The orbalisk armour constantly pumps Bane up with adrenaline, which would also augment his strength.

5. The orbalisk armour constantly injects darkside energies into Bane, which can be channelled through his limbs and muscles to increase his strength.

Yeah, Bane's pretty much untouchable in the strength department.

I'll post the rest of my reply later, don't reply.

Originally posted by allfg

4. The orbalisk armour constantly pumps Bane up with adrenaline, which would also augment his strength.


Muscles cannot be constantly flexed. Some muscles lead to others, some need to be flexed differently for others to also work. If all were flexed, you couldn't move a muscle....

Originally posted by allfg
Physically, he's stated as being the strongest sith ever, according to Zephiel (who doesn't lie). That's Vader's main asset, and he's still beat in that department.
Both you and zephiel are full of shit, because it's not stated anywhere. If anything Vader is MORE powerful than Bane because he's half machine. Common sense eludes you yet again.


Good lord he did it once against a padawan, nobody cares.


Prove it was completely alien to vader, considering that the double bladed staff was NOT extinct during the PT era, just rare.


Bane isn't invincible in a lightsaber battle dumbass, or he wouldn't have lost. His talents don't lie in his lightsaber abilities. You're an idiot as usual.

Originally posted by allfg
Firstly, if you want to prove that Zephiel ever lied, you need to post a link and quote, and not be so damn vague. Search for "Form VIII sansacu" in the EU section and read everything. I dont have the luxury of giving you the link, i have it since i made the thread but first of all why should i want to show it to you? Mr godly debator. Go find it yourself, Isnt that what gods do?
Originally posted by allfg

Secondly, I don't ever recall Zephiel lying and he doesn't strike me as someone who would. Well then you must have not been paying attention!


Originally posted by allfg

In one of the sourcebooks it does, and it makes sense.
Book? page? number? quote?
Originally posted by allfg

1. Bane is pretty much naturally as physically strong as humans get. He was described as a mountain of muscle, before leaving Apatros, he had literally been working on the mines his entire life. He constantly received beatings from his father, and constantly took part in brawls in the mines. He was also the strongest of all the miners. Right right while sources(vader the ultimate guide, wookiepedia and wikipedia" stated That vader had incredible strength and in RODV, it was also said that vader could crush his lightsaber hilt with no effort at all. Vader > bane physical strength
Originally posted by allfg

2. The degree to which he could amp up his speed was phenomenal, and given that he was taught how to do the same with his strength at the BoD Korriban Academy, I see no reason to suggest that he couldn't just amp up his strength to the same degree. Speed and strength generally go hand in hand, so given how fast he is, it makes sense that he'd be damn strong too. Irrelevant, Doesnt prove bane is stronger than vader physically, especially after what he did to a wild animal 3 times bigger than he is with just his raw strength
Originally posted by allfg

3. The orbalisk armour constantly strengthens and pumps up Bane's muscles, and keeps them constantly flexed. While on the other hand everything comes with a price, TDSSB stated that EACH orbalisks weighs 1kg and banes ENTIRE body is covered with them. Wouldnt that sacrifice his speed for greater strength? The bane who moved so fast sadly was pre-orbalisk bane.
Originally posted by allfg

4. The orbalisk armour constantly pumps Bane up with adrenaline, which would also augment his strength.

5. The orbalisk armour constantly injects darkside energies into Bane, which can be channelled through his limbs and muscles to increase his strength. while i do not deny it makes him stronger, is it enough to prove he is physically stronger than vader? Going by what you say i should be stronger than vader because i take steriods and look bigger than him. Wrong!
Originally posted by allfg

Yeah, Bane's pretty much untouchable in the strength department.
Nope, see the above
Originally posted by allfg

I'll post the rest of my reply later, don't reply. I have the right to reply as and when i like. I hope you enjoy your wedding with bane

Originally posted by allfg
Firstly, if you want to prove that Zephiel ever lied, you need to post a link and quote, and not be so damn vague.
By saying it's stated Bane is the strongest sith ever, that's a lie.


Good thing your opinion matters on this issue. Oh wait.




Sure it does Noobaris.


And Vader's a cyborg, dipshit.


Except his speed is force dependant, his physical strength isn't.

Ok I'm done with you dipshits, seeing as you're incapable of taking me on mano-a-mano and have to throw a gazillion different arguments at me.



My bad, when I said 'flexed', I meant 'pumped up.'

Oh ok, thought it was a little weird.

Originally posted by allfg
Ok I'm done with you dipshits, seeing as you're incapable of taking me on mano-a-mano and have to throw a gazillion different arguments at me.

Awww poor baby, still in denial about having the ability to win ANY arguments on this forum. Tell you what francine, you learn how to NOT get wtfpwned by every person you've ever debated with, and we'll take you seriously.

Can you feel the love... tonight...

Anyways.

I personally don't see how Bane could be stronger than Vader (who has cyberkinetic implants far superior to anything in Bane's heyday), but I will say that those orbalisks would indeed make him a beast.

Originally posted by Gideon
Can you feel the love... tonight...




It is where we are....

Vader, but Bane certainly gives him a run for his money.

I'm gonna make this simple:

1. Vader can't defend against controlled storms of force lightning.

2. Bane can conjure storms of force lightning, and control them on a small scale.

3. Bane can conjure one up in a heartbeat.

End of discussion, Vader loses and he loses hard. I estimate the fight lasting about 2 seconds.

Originally posted by allfg
I'm gonna make this simple:

1. Vader can't defend against controlled storms of force lightning.

2. Bane can conjure storms of force lightning, and control them on a small scale.

3. Bane can conjure one up in a heartbeat.

End of discussion, Vader loses and he loses hard. I estimate the fight lasting about 2 seconds.

Except Vader's force mastery would allow him to block simple force lightning with his blade, and there goes your argument in about 2 seconds.

Firstly, force mastery has little to do with using your lightsaber to block lightning. Strength, reflexes, hand speed, precognition, and defencive technique. None of that really relates with force mastery.

Secondly, storms of force lightning are too great for a lightsaber to handle. The blade can't defend Vader's entire body at once, it's too small and stiff.

Sidious' lightning was absorbed by a lightsaber, so, try and back that statement up.

Excuse me? It's not something I need to back up, it's a fact; storms of force lightning encompass an area that is too great for a lightsaber to handle. Sidious' lightning in the movies wasn't a storm, but just multiple straight strands.

Not sure I really understand you...


Are you saying Bane's lightning is better than Sidious'?

It's really not that hard to understand. Bane can conjure up controlled storms of force lightning. A lightsaber alone can't defend against such an attack, due to the fact that it is stiff and that it doesn't encompass a large enough area.

Lightning is channeled to the lightsaber. I doubt Count Dooku fired his lightning the exact width of a lightsaber at Kenobi in AOTC, or that Sidious did that to Mace in ROTS...

I'm still wondering how you figure precognition has nothing to do with the force...

What the fvck are you talking about? Lightning is magically attracted to the blade of a lightsaber? You clearly don't know what you're talking about, there's no proof whatsoever that lightning is simply channeled to a lightsaber.



What don't you get about it? Both Dooku and Sidious aimed their lightning at their opponents, and their opponents simply pushed their lightsaber in front of the lightning to defend against it. It's not that hard to comprehend. By your logic, lightning shouldn't have ever been considered so difficult to block seeing as it always just goes straight to a lightsaber. That logic's pretty whack, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I'm still wondering how you figure precognition has nothing to do with the force...

Force mastery. Mastering the force doesn't have anything to do with precognition.

Remember what I was saying about attacking as many minor details in my posts as possible, btw? It's still annoying. Please stop.

asking a question is an annoyance? Then you my friend are in the wrong place. And yes, force mastery has alot to do with it. The more masterful you are, the more it can serve you. I wouldn't rank Zett's precog abilities on par with Vader's.

No allfg is correct, according to DSSB, Bane is physically the strongest. You can ask Advent or anyone else who has analyzed the sourcebook to support me. I will get scans up as soon as my damn machine begins to work.

EDIT: That is, Orbalisks included.

Originally posted by allfg
What the fvck are you talking about? Lightning is magically attracted to the blade of a lightsaber?
simply pushed their lightsaber in front of the lightning to defend against it.

Since you seem to know: Why does the lightning go to the lightsaber, then?

The crystal inside a lightsabers Blade draws and absorbs as much the energy that it can.

The blade dissipates it afterwards.

Where does it say that?

@Zephiel: Where in the DSSB does it say that? Because it's not under Bane's entry.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Where does it say that?

@Zephiel: Where in the DSSB does it say that? Because it's not under Bane's entry.

Check under their physical scores. Bane is canonically labelled as being stronger than Vader. It's represented numerically, but it was nonetheless designated as such in the DSSB, putting it above our word.

So, stats are your source?

I guess Sidious can't use force lightning, right?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
So, stats are your source?

I guess Sidious can't use force lightning, right?

What?! The DSSB explicitly states Sidious can use force lightning, it lists it clearly.

In stats? Mine is downloaded, and some of it is weird...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
In stats? Mine is downloaded, and some of it is weird...

Scroll down to force feats.

If it's not there, I'll phone up Gerard Butler and ask him to stab me in his Leonidas outfit.

Statistical interpretations of character abilities can still be considered canon.

Oh, I see it, I was thinking it was its own skill.

Oh wonderful, the main argument deals with stats, which aren't canon to begin with. Furthermore, Vader is a cyborg so there is no reason to believe a human is more powerful than a half machine. That's like me going to one of those canon star wars roleplaying games and seeing Exar Kun's stats trumping those of Luke or Sidious. Not a good argument at all.

Yeah, and Vader would be significantly better at moving objects with he force than Palpatine.

Also, in the DSSB, it says Vader's armor boosts his strength with Sith Alchemy.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yeah, and Vader would be significantly better at moving objects with he force than Palpatine.

I think there is sufficient enough proof from a higher source of canon (G-canon) that disproves this.



Sure, but even with said augments, the DSSB doesn't state that he is physically stronger than Bane.

My advice? Use the statistics to back up an argument.

It's not there to definitively prove that Bane is stronger, other points can be used with it to indicate the most likely situation being that Bane is physically stronger. (ie., each Orbalisk pumping him with adrenaline, strength, and darkside energies)

Then stick to those sources.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Then stick to those sources.

Huh? Both can be used, as long as they come from a reputable source and support your argument.

Zephiel's correct here, I see no reason as to why stats cannot be used to support an argument (as long as there are no contradictions between the stats, and higher sources , and the argument has merit behind it).

Are game mechanics (video games or rpg) canon? For example, does a rpg damage rating like "7d" mean anything? If a C-canon source (like a novel or reference book) contradicts what the game mechanics say, will the book win out?

Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction. - Leland Chee , page 37 of Holocron continuity database questions.

If the stats were to be used as a stand alone case, of course they could be dismissed (save for powers, etc.), but in zephiel's case, there are several other supplementary points.

WTF? Stats?

Palpatine is as strong as Windu, physically.
Obi Wan is physically stronger than Anakin.
Greivous is Stronger than Bane, Vader, Tarfull, Chewie, etc.
Ludo Kreshh ( http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=1&page=085 ) , can lift a maximum of 230 lbs. above his head.

Originally posted by zephiel7
The statistical interpretation of attributes are more reliable than our interpretations. It's sufficiently substantiated, by the very nature of the Orbalisks themselves.
It's non canon, period. Meaning you can't use it in a debate? Furthermore, we can logically deduce the fact that a cyborg will always be more powerful than a human, rendering your stats useless.




Uh, why not? That's like saying the guy who played the incredible hulk can possibly be stronger than the terminator.




I've seen the star wars roleplaying game, and apparently my point flew over your head. The stats had Exar Kun above Luke. In fact I remember Ragnos' stats being above everybody in the SW Universe, that means we have to accept it? Please.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Read the quote from Chee. He says that the stats themselves can be used to scale characters with respect to one another. They are based on continuity, and what is already known, thus made as consistent with continuity as possible. The only reason why they would be rendered invalid is if a merited comic or novel disproves of said stat comparison.
When you are using stats as your argument, they are non canon.




As was Vader who was half machine, half cyborg, with more raw force abilities than Bane.


You want to play word games? Terminator? Robocop? Vader? What do they all have in common? They are cyborgs with freakish power.







There's more than 1 canon star wars roleplaying game.

It's difficult to determine who's physically stronger. An argument for Bane (stats aside) I would think should revolve around the idea that he's flesh and blood (orbalisks included) and that as a result he's muscles are capable of expanding and allowing him to perform greater feats of strength.

The flip side of that argument is that however strong he becomes he's human and there's a limit to how much physical power the orbalisks can grant him - plus there's the little problem of having a lower sub atomic density than Vader i.e. captain america (Bane) -iron man analogy (Vader).

As for Vader the only down side of being a cyborg is that there's a greater limitation on how much strength his body can have, not unless he can under go an upgrade; unlikely given the circumstances of his cybernetic implants.

But if I had to guess who's stronger, I'd go for Vader. Bane is all organic, meaning he's body is less likely to withstand the highest physical pressures Vader can endure. In as much as Bane is super human (relatively speaking), Vader's physical strength I would guess could possibly be beyond any flesh-and-blood human's.

Exapnding a little bit on my point about Vader's greater sub atomic density. Vader's cyborg body gives him a higher potential than Bane for achieving super human feats of strength.

Think about it, Vader has metallic machinery to use as he wills, while Bane has a flesh and blood body, which while impressive (and more fluid), isn't quite as unyielding as what Vader has.

LMAO.

Actually only the original orbalisks weighed that much (only about 4). The orbalisks that subsequently budded weren't so heavy (as can be seen by their size).

Originally posted by allfg
Actually only the original orbalisks weighed that much (only about 4). The orbalisks that subsequently budded weren't so heavy (as can be seen by their size). true they are smaller, Bout half as heavy as the original id say? But the fact remains it covers his entire body.

Everything comes with a price you know,(You know what i mean)

Yes, I know what you mean, lol.

I'd say the pros far outweigh the cons, but hold up, aren't we talking about strength here, and not speed?

Kadesh is right. Even with the orbalisks, Bane is limited by flesh and bone. Vader doesn't have those limits, especially since all the stuff that was put into him was Sidious' design. I highly doubt Sidious wouldn't make Vader as strong as possible.

also, just because something is smaller in diameter doesn't mean that it cant be more dense making it heavier, or in this case, the same weight as the originals. And while we are talking about speed, you still use your muscle strength to move, so it kind of ties in. But just to put things into perspective here, being that Bane isn't your normal everyday guy...imagine an already genetically jacked guy; now give him the best steroids there are. Have 2 identical cars side by side. Have him try to lift the front of one, and have another normal guy (although Anakin was still really strong) and have him use a simple car jack. Who do you think will lift the car easier, or even at all? Car jack work on the same principle as basic cybernetics, as far as what enables them to move, such as hydraulics, and being that this is SW, I'm quite sure that the cybernetics used in Vader are of much better quality than what we have here on Earth. I'm not doubting Bane is a beast, but Vader would be logically stronger.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kadesh is right. Even with the orbalisks, Bane is limited by flesh and bone. Vader doesn't have those limits, especially since all the stuff that was put into him was Sidious' design. I highly doubt Sidious wouldn't make Vader as strong as possible. RODV confirms that sidious merely makes vader powerful and could make him far stronger than what he is at the moment.

Ill try to find the quote

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
also, just because something is smaller in diameter doesn't mean that it cant be more dense making it heavier, or in this case, the same weight as the originals.

That would only work if they were different materials... They're all orbalisks, and would have the same density.



Kinda, but that would apply to Vader too.



These strange analogies really aren't necessary.



Not really, since when has mechanical strength ever compared to force boosted strength? Yoda could use the force to boost his natural strength up to such a degree that he could lift and carry a giant turret gun the size of a small house. Given that Bane can can amp up his speed far beyond what Vader can do, it seems logical that he would be able to do the same with strength.

Mechanical strength c ompared to force boosted strength? I guess your argument completely fails when you forgot that Vader could use the force as well!! How about that huh? Also, you saying that because Bane has shown to do force attack X while Vader hasn't, then he can do it better as well as force attack Y. Nice logic there Noobaris, I can't imagine why you haven't won an argument.

Originally posted by allfg


Not really, since when has mechanical strength ever compared to force boosted strength? Yoda could use the force to boost his natural strength up to such a degree that he could lift and carry a giant turret gun the size of a small house. Given that Bane can can amp up his speed far beyond what Vader can do, it seems logical that he would be able to do the same with strength. Did you forget that vader can use the force to boost his strength as well?. And by the way,
Since bane is tremendously slowed down, wouldnt boosting his speed make him slightly faster than an average PT jedi? Its safe to assume vader knows the same technique, force speed is a basic power and he studied under the greatest and most powerful sith lord for 20 years

Just so we're clear, Zephiel, you do understand that the statistics in question are only valid if supported by other sources or if there is no contradiction made? Darth Sexy and Jollyjim are very much right in one instance - the statistics you bring up aren't exactly infallible - given how Exar Kun's statistical prowess seems to surpass Palpatine's, or how Vader's 'move objects with the Force' seems to be greater than Palpatine's as well. Lee also said that the statistics aren't to be relied on completely for a character's strength.

I'd suggest treading lightly.

Obviously...there are no overt contradictions made with these statistics. If there were a publication after BoTS which shows that Bane really isn't as strong as stated, then so be it.



Really? Last time I checked, they don't.



Contradicted by a higher source of canon; therefore, meaningless.



He said that only if the statistics were contradicted by reliable narrative. They can be a basis on determining a character's abilities, which IMO is painfully obvious from the quote Advent posted.



If you think that I'm basing everything on statistics, then I'd suggest you reread the facts I put down supporting my argument.

Good to know.



The key word being "seems". Isn't that what Darth Sexy said?



Exactly. But, again, goes to show that they aren't infallible.



Exactly.



No, it's an expression, Zephiel.

Originally posted by Gideon
Good to know.



The key word being "seems". Isn't that what Darth Sexy said?



Exactly. But, again, goes to show that they aren't infallible.



Exactly.


Then we're agreed. Its good to know we're not at each others throats this time.

Although the part about Palpatine's stats being inferior to Kun's, its not really true. Kun is shown to be physically stronger, but I think that's pretty obvious.




Yeah, I figured that out, I had a massive misinterpretation there. See the edit.

How are Kun's stats in relation to Vader and Sidious?

Originally posted by Gideon
How are Kun's stats in relation to Vader and Sidious?

In the physical stats he's a bit more maneuverable than Vader and about as strong. He's physically stronger than Sidious.

On the otherhand, Vader is incredibly intelligent, and so is Sidious, moreso than Kun. They are both more charismatic (Palpatine by far the most charismatic Sith lord).

Palpatine's stats are pretty wacky though. They change from different points in his career. In TPM he was physically tougher than in ROTJ. They seemed to ignore the DE incarnation; but statswise, I would imagine he'd be close to Bane in strength, and probably would have far more force skills and feats.

What the sourcebook doesn't mention is how much each Sith lord can augment their powers. I'd imagine that could change things quite a bit, depending on how you view each Sith Lord.

RPG stats on their own tend to be rather worthless. It's little better than gameplay

Originally posted by Kadesh
Did you forget that vader can use the force to boost his strength as well?.

No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's.



No he isn't, stop getting this twisted, I've already posted evidence from the NEGtC that explains how the benefits of the orbalisks made him much faster. A tiny bit of added weight doesn't compare to the constant addition of dark side energies, adrenaline, and the strengthening of muscles.

wouldn't boosting his speed make him slightly faster than an average PT jedi?

By BotS, Bane is much much faster than anyone from the movies.



Stop with this bullshit (this refers to everyone as well as Kadesh), "force speed" as seen in KotOR doesn't exist, there's no single power that enables a jedi to suddenly go at Superman speeds. All Jedi know how to amp up their speed with the force, but the degree to which they can do so varies on how strong in the force they are. Vader can't simply activate a power and suddenly start moving at speeds far beyond what the eyes can see.



I love how Vader fanboys love to attribute Sidious' success and power to Vader, simply because he's his student. The competence of his teacher has virtually no relation on Vader, and if anything, he was likely holding him back more than helping him.

You do the exact same thing with Kas'im and Bane.

I am neither a vader or bane fanboy, but i think that bane has showed himself more impressive with the force and the lightsaber then vader.

Originally posted by allfg
No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's.
It's your opinion and therefore completely meaningless in this debate.



If this was anybody else, I'd question them on their stupidity. Since it's you, that's all you ever spew out anyways.




Actually it IS called force speed, so shut it fool.




Says Bane's sex slave who can't offer a single cogent argument in favor of his fantasy.

Except logically the Orbalsiks can't pump constant adrenaline and dark side energy(I wan't a quote that says it actually does this) into Bane with out him dieing. Bane is still human force user or not the superhuman amounts of power that your claiming is being juiced into his body would put an EXTREME amount of stress on his heart and eventually it'd stop beating.

Now you've yet to prove exactly how much adrenaline is being given to him, and even still logically he could only last at most about a couple of minutes in a stressful real hard fight (take the one with Kas'im for example) without dieing on the spot from heart failure. And as I've said in the past if this is a "constant" affect which your claiming he'd be suffering from a number of psychological problems such as hypertension, insomnia which in turn would lead to hallucinations, sever rage, irritability coupled with the fact he has the dark side which can destroy minds, he'd be a mental wreak.

Originally posted by allfg
No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's.

Because you say so?




In the DSSB, Orbalisks make people significantly slower.




No... just... no.





Have you seen Episode I? Or Episode V? Check out when Qui Gon and Obi Wan run away from the blast door when destroyers show up. Or when Luke jumps out of the Carbon freezing chamber. Then get back to me.




Think of what Revan taught Bane in a short period of time. Sidious is more powerful than Revan, and he taught Vader for 20+ years.

Revan is more powerful than suited-Vader

Sure he is.

Originally posted by Riverollv
Revan is more powerful than suited-Vader Isn't bane also more powerful than Vader too?

Originally posted by vader11
Isn't bane also more powerful than Vader too? No, vader > bane in the force, quit downplaying vader and i think it is pretty obvious revan is more powerful than vader,

Originally posted by allfg
No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's. wrong


Originally posted by allfg

No he isn't, stop getting this twisted, I've already posted evidence from the NEGtC that explains how the benefits of the orbalisks made him much faster. A tiny bit of added weight doesn't compare to the constant addition of dark side energies, adrenaline, and the strengthening of muscles. Idiot then it contradicts DSSB when it stated orbalisks slows down a user


Originally posted by allfg

By BotS, Bane is much much faster than anyone from the movies.
Prove it, right you cant

Originally posted by allfg

Stop with this bullshit (this refers to everyone as well as Kadesh), "force speed" as seen in KotOR doesn't exist, there's no single power that enables a jedi to suddenly go at Superman speeds. All Jedi know how to amp up their speed with the force, but the degree to which they can do so varies on how strong in the force they are. Vader can't simply activate a power and suddenly start moving at speeds far beyond what the eyes can see. Then see episode V where luke, a mere force adept can use force speed so why cant vader do it whom is a sith lord


Originally posted by allfg

I love how Vader fanboys love to attribute Sidious' success and power to Vader, simply because he's his student. The competence of his teacher has virtually no relation on Vader, and if anything, he was likely holding him back more than helping him. Says the one who gets owned by everybody in this forums

Originally posted by kamhal
I am neither a vader or bane fanboy, but i think that bane has showed himself more impressive with the force and the lightsaber then vader. you ARE a fanboy of bane, especially kotor characters, And sorry kamhal but i can list everything that vader did which is more impressive than bane. And please if you do that prepare to get omgwtfffs pwned by JJ's list as well

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
You do the exact same thing with Kas'im and Bane.

No I don't.



Newsflash: THIS IS STAR WARS!!
Science doesn't always apply, perhaps the force somehow negates these side effects of constant pumping up of adrenaline, who knows?



Me and Zephiel have constantly provided you the quote, stop being difficult, and I'm pretty sure it's in BotS anyway which I know you have read.



Except clearly it doesn't, and clearly you're wrong, as we know that Bane eventually left Dxun and found Zannah on Onderon and trained her as a Sith Lord.

And I'm really not seeing why you're just dismissing the fact that Bane's a force user, as that's clearly the most valid explanation as to why the adrenaline hasn't been doing the stuff you've been saying.



Except the adrenaline is always being pumped into him. It doesn't increase in stressful situations, it remains constant always, whether Bane's fighting or not.



Again, the fact that Bane was able to leave Dxun, find his apprentice on Onderon, and train her as a sith lord before dying while having adrenaline pumped into him constantly for all that time proves you wrong. You're relying on science when it quite frankly means jack in SW.

Now I just want to put emphasis on a couple of points, so you don't come back with the same excuses.

1. The science you're using is clearly wrong, as we know that Bane left Dxun, found Zannah on Onderon and trained her as a sith lord, all while being constantly pumped with adrenaline, and all of that wouldn't have been possible if the stuff that you've been mentioning actually happened. So please, stop bringing the same science bs up, as you're clearly wrong.

2. Whether Bane's in a stressful situation, or not, the adrenaline being pumped into him remains the same, so stop with this bs. Bane can last way more than a minute in any fight (not that he'd need to in this one anyway), stress has no effect.

Originally posted by Kadesh
you ARE a fanboy of bane, especially kotor characters, And sorry kamhal but i can list everything that vader did which is more impressive than bane. And please if you do that prepare to get omgwtfffs pwned by JJ's list as well

You and JollyJim are known as huge fanboys of Vader. AcStyles and Sexy are known as huge antifanboys of Bane. Kamhal, as far as I can tell, is completely neutral, and I'd imagine that Vader1 would actually be more of a Vader fan, yet he still thinks Bane is more powerful. What does that tell you? And JJ's joke of a list hardly compares to mine, don't be silly.

Kopekz thought he might just be the sith'ari aka the ultimate sith and perfect being after only just one conversation with Bane, so he clearly sensed that the force within Bane was on the next level.

Githany believed his power was beyond the level of pretty much any jedi or sith master when he had only received a few months worth of training. The jedi and sith during those times were pretty uber, this speaks for quite a lot.

Kaan, the leader of the BoD was scared shitless of him before he had even met him; this was based purely on descriptions of his power.

When he was 18, he was able to instinctively choke his father to death, which greatly speaks for how prodigious he was, and how strong in the force he was.

He once lost his temper, and was able to instinctively project his fury on an entire room full of people; that speaks for truly how strong he was in the darkside.

He pretty much mastered force lightning after just 1 hour of having learnt the technique, and was even able to create a miniature storm. By BotS, after having grown much more powerful, he would likely be able to replicate this to much greater effect.

He was able to release a wave of energy that was able to collapse the entire 20 story Rakatan Temple, and the temple wasn't even hit by the entire attack (it wasn't hit by the portion that hit Kas'im).

He was able to choke Quordis to death like he was a child, and Quordis was one of the top sith in the BoD, the head of the academy in fact.

He was able to control the power of over 20 sith lords combined with his own to destroy an entire world. This speaks quite a lot for his mastery and control by that point

He was able to pull a moon out of orbit, and pretty casually too given he did it while riding on top of a flying beast.

He knew every move and sequence of the saber staff perfectly (and those are the moves and sequences for all 7 forms, and not just the regular forms, but Kas'im's perfected forms), and thus would be able to wield one to the same effect as Kas'im.

Sirak, the top apprentice at the BoD Academy was damn powerful; he was able to move in blurs, had mastered multiple forms..and Bane was able to completely outclass him in saber combat; his shatterpoint ability was so great that he was able to sense weaknesses in Sirak's style seconds after the duel began, and constantly throughout the battle, but held back because he wanted to humiliate Sirak, and tire him down first, and towards the end, was able to tool him with one masterful manoeuvre; his movements were faster than the eyes of everyone present could see, so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them.

He as good as defeated Kas'im in a duel; Kas'im was basically The master of the lightsaber; he mastered every from, every primary art of the saber, and then furthered and perfected each form and constantly refined his skills, and Kas'im was only able to defeat him when he used a style that was alien to Bane.

While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis agreed. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order.

Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, which constantly pumps dark side energies and adrenaline into his body, and strengthens his muscles. It's also completely immune to the cutting power of even a lightsaber, and covers his entire body, except for his head (the only area where he can be physically affected), and a few joints where the gaps are too small for a lightsaber to pass through anyway.

His knowledge base was also pretty considerable too;

1. He pretty much knew the entire BoD archives inside out.

2. He had received most of the teachings that the then current Masters could offer via Githany.

3. He had gained most of the knowledge found inside Darth Revan's holocron.

4. He was able to access a jedi holocron.

5. He was able to plunder the tomb of Nadd's holocron, and gain access to his holocron.

Bane >>>>> Vader.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And please if you do that prepare to get omgwtfffs pwned by JJ's list as well

Jim's 'list' really isn't that impressive, nor does it prove much of anything considering it's mere feat wars for the most part.

Yeah, simply cause Kas'im taught him lightsaber forms he's now a master




For a science fiction series that its (Human) chracters despite being aided by a field of energy, still behave in the way real world humans do that is: getting tiered, fatigue, stress, adrenaline, ect ect. Now simply "LAWLZ tis is teh sStawrs!" is a cop out excuse for:

"I have no counter argument."

As said since he is a dark side force user and the dark side is all he knows, it works against all the knowledge that we have of the dark side of the force that it would in affect "calm" him and slow his heart rate down and keep it from assploading.

What is the typical dark side user fighting like? Rage and hate filled using it to fuel their power, Bane especially does this, now to think that he could use this same side of the force to in affect calm him is absolutely ridicules.





So what, I don't remember it. And I seem to have to reiterate myself EVERY TIME I argue with the either of you so you do the same.




the parasites were also pumping him with adrenaline and strength. This was a symbiotic relationship based on dark side energies, and now - - after he had absorbed the knowledge within the Sith holocron - - Darth Bane knew there would be enough dark side power for them all.

Thats all it says, there's no constant, he has to feed then for them to even be more then a plate of armor. Now, as I've said logically their not constantly pumping adrenaline, unless Bane can pump Dark Side energy in his sleep(and many other mundane, useless situations) then its not happening.





Great and tell me Nebaris, how long did those training sessions last? And seriously, how much energy does he have to exert to spar with a 8 year old girl? Oh and how many of those sessions was actually lightsaber training, why couldn't it have been the majority force knowledge? You have NO answer for any of these questions because simply: You don't know.

So, for you to sit here and say: "Well he trained Zannah, so your argument is wrong." reeks of bullshit.



Except in my argument I even put "force user or not" and I'm dismissing the force because mostly all sentient life in the Star Wars galaxy has a heart, and all humans behave in the same biological fashion as we do.

Now, if we go by your original argument which is: Bane gets super humans strength and speed due to the orbalisks pumping constant adrenaline, then Bane would be suffering from the many psychological conditions that has been laid out and in any real hard stressful activity he'd probably die withing minutes.

But, if we go by my explanation (the logical one) that is supported by BOTS, meaning he has to literally feed them energy for them to give him anything in return. (a basic symbiotic relationship) This means its not a constant factor and Bane himself can control the affects of the parasites, also he can when he chooses "stop" them from giving the extra adrenaline before it kills him.

Now all this boils down to is Bane gets a little streghtn and speed advantage to compensate for the weight of the Orbalisks. Big whoop, thats nothing that truly sets him apart from the rest of the SW power house who can use the force to augment their strength to match and surpass Bane's a factor which the DSSB does not take into account.

BTW can anyone post Banes stats?


Except your wrong.





Again wrong.




Wrong, wrong wrong, wrong, Wrong, wrong wrong, wrong. Dr. Cox



Well other then the fact that its wrong, you know this how? Have you seen Bane fight with the Orbalisks on? No. So where does this genius explanation come from? Fact? Pfft yeah right. Nebaris's fanboy mind? Yup, that sounds about right.



Not really, I actually liked his PoD portrayal, its the others that give him ridicules powers that annoy me, but that can be blamed on KJA, I don't like any of KJA's characters because other then the fact that their lame, one dimensional and lack any depth what so ever, their horribly overpowered from Exar Kun who went from nobody padwan to "Teh strongest evar!" In about 6 months to Kyp Durron some n00b who can almost match Luke, and yes Banes portrayal in BOTS where Bane becomes in the beginning an idiotic coward who can't use the DS for shit, then by the end of the story he becomes a god.




Um who?

Nebaris I'll respond to that laundry list when I get home from work tonight but most of that has already been beaten.

owned owned owned, all hail Sir acstyles

Not really, I'm just waiting until I can get that quote. Then the ownage will continue.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Not really, I'm just waiting until I can get that quote. Then the ownage will continue. correct, the ownage is on you and it will continue. i cant be bothered to argue espcially after receiving administrative punishment

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Not really, I'm just waiting until I can get that quote. Then the ownage will continue.

Your imaginary quote? Either way you lose, I have an argument for each situation whether its constant(if its this it defies the damn basis of a symbiotic relationship) or not.

Dude, stop talking rubbish, I can actually guarantee quote or no quote, your main argument is working under a serious flaw, and will crumble as soon as I choose to point it out. Here's a hint: ''As said since he is a dark side force user and the dark side is all he knows."

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Dude, stop talking rubbish, I can actually guarantee quote or no quote, your main argument is working under a serious flaw, and will crumble as soon as I choose to point it out. Here's a hint: ''As said since he is a dark side force user and the dark side is all he knows."


Obviously you can't, since you said it was in BOTS and that was wrong, its probably not in the DSSB either else someone would have corrected me by now, and as for your flaw that Dark Side is all he knows and all he was ever taught, if your going to imply that Revan taught him some magical power to slow his heart rate (Bullshit) then you'd better have proof (which of course you don't) every time Bane gets going in a fight he gets worked into a frenzy using the Dark Side to fuel is power through his hate and rage, again to think that that can calm him is idiotic.

In any case working under the ridicules assumption that it can if fact calm Bane down( the dark side that is) then he takes precious time out of the duel to slow down and calm himself in which Vader (Im using pre suit) will capitalize on and kill Bane, not that he can't anyways.

I never said it was definitely in BotS, all I said was that I was pretty sure it was in it, however I know for a fact that it's in one of those sourcebooks or reference guides.



Point is, you made a 'ridicules' statement. You're ignoring:

1. The universal powers he learnt at the BoD.
2. The universal and lightside powers he learnt from Revan.
3. The stuff he learnt from the Jedi holocron he came across.

Man up to coming out with sh1t as whack as you did.



You're acting as if Bane is some sort of madman that loses control whenever he fights. He's actually one of the few sith who has actually displayed the mindframe to act pretty passively in a duel. And really, given such obscure techniques as Morichro, it's not hard to believe that Bane would know how to slow down his heart rate. And again, you're working under the assumption that the adrenaline input increases during stressful situations, when it clearly doesn't. As soon as I have the quote, you're getting proven wrong.



More likely that Bane will end the fight in seconds with his superior skill and technique. And it's funny how you automatically assume that Bane can't multitask.

I'm waiting...




LOL when? Name me one "universal power" aside from TK (in any form)




Name me ONE "universal power he learned from Revan, of and BTW that little poison control used the Dark Side.




When? I've never read ANYTHING about a Jedi Holocron, not only that but why the hell would a Jedi holocron open to Bane?



When you stop lying Nebaris.




And where the f*ck does that power come from? Oh yeah the dark side, and how do you mainly use the Dark Side? Oh yeah by using your emotions such as hate, rage, and fear.





Um when does he do this? He simply starves himself in the cave on Dxun, then when he emerges he's physically exhausted.




Yes, it is since he doesn't know Morichro to begin with




Obviously you don't get how it works, Bane keeps juicing them with Dark Side energy then pump him with more adrenaline, it doesn't matter even if it did remain a steady flow where do you think the old burst of adrenaline go? He doesn't just fart them out, since he's as your arguing "constantly" being pumped theres no time for the old bursts to where off and dissipate.




LOL!



Yeah he can't because as he himself said if he decided to multitask in the Kas'im duel he'd have been ass raped.

Noobaris, are you still operating under the delusion that you have won a single argument since you've been on this forum? Poor guy..