Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello

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masterbruce
Everyone is bloodlusted and fighting to their full potential!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Tmntposter3_leo.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Tmntposter1_raphael.jpg

versus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Tmntposter4.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Tmntposter2_don.jpg

draxx_tOfU
leo and ralph ftw in a straight up fight...

with prep though, donnie and mike takes it...

capt it up
dam why you go and make it like this lol.


don the worse of them at fighting and leo is the best....... so ya team two loses.

masterbruce
Originally posted by capt it up
dam why you go and make it like this lol.


don the worse of them at fighting and leo is the best....... so ya team two loses.

I thought Mikey was the best?

For this fight, everyone is bloodlusted and fighting to full potential.

draxx_tOfU
no way is leo the best...

raphael is imo...

being leader doesnt mean being the best fighter...

raver

masterbruce
Michaelangelo is actually the best fighter out of all of them, which is why I put him with Donatello.

Martian_mind
Captain planet FTW

capt it up
Originally posted by masterbruce
Michaelangelo is actually the best fighter out of all of them, which is why I put him with Donatello.

no he ahs the msot potential He has unlimited potential however he is not the best fighter


He the best natural fighter and is the best athelet. However he hardly trains. Leo is better then him ebcuase leo constantly trains and better him self. Miky however with a quarter of leo training is able to keep up with leo. If miky was to train as much as leo he would be far superior however he does not. Miky could be the best, but due to his lack in effort he is not. He also learns moves at a far superior rate compared to the others. He also the fastest however leo is actaully the best fighter and would defeat miky in combat.

python99
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
no way is leo the best...

raphael is imo...

being leader doesnt mean being the best fighter...

raver

But Leo trains harder than any of the 3

Juntai
I dunno about the newer turtles, but the in original incarnations, Raphael was the best fighter, and everyone knew it. Leo was the leader because of being the most level-headed while Raph always had a huge temper. Mike and Don were always ****ing around with one thing or another.

However, Usagi Yojimbo beats them all, at the same time, and could probably stalemate if not defeat the 4 + Master Splinter.

But Casey Jones will alwyas be the rawest.

capt it up
Originally posted by Juntai
I dunno about the newer turtles, but the in original incarnations, Raphael was the best fighter, and everyone knew it. Leo was the leader because of being the most level-headed while Raph always had a huge temper. Mike and Don were always ****ing around with one thing or another.

However, Usagi Yojimbo beats them all, at the same time, and could probably stalemate if not defeat the 4 + Master Splinter.

But Casey Jones will alwyas be the rawest.

raph was the best? Leo beat the crap out of raph and don at the same time.......I am sorry, but in the old comic's raph was not the best. Leo was far his superior.

python99
I do agree that Mike is the best fighter of the 3. However true skill in this matchup should only be determined in hand to hand combat. The reason is the turtles each specialize in a certain weapon which require a certain skill skill to use, and each weapon has their pros and cons. If you mixed up and gave each turtle a different weapon they are going to use that weapon to the best of their knowledge, and the weapon that may be easiest to use may be the Kitana or the Sai. The Chucks seem to be the most difficult and then the Bo staff in second. So if you Judge this by weapons use Mikey Don would have the most skill due to weapon difficulty. Hand to hand is what this should be, and that is another story.

capt it up
actaully the bo staff is a rather sinple weapon to use.


a kitana ( well it really not a kitana, but any ways) would likly be the next hardest weapon to use. It is simple in the sense any one can pick it up and use it however in order to full master it effectivly is mroe difficult. The bo staff is an easier weapon to master.

The Boxer
Lea and Raph. Sharp weapons, and theyre pretty serious fighters. they can win in one hit, the opposite team has treeweapons

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
Lea and Raph. Sharp weapons, and theyre pretty serious fighters. they can win in one hit, the opposite team has treeweapons
nunckucks are made of metal as well and if im not mistaken most of the time. also you take a bo staff to the head or a nunuck you are very much dead.

The Boxer
Thats true. But still, its harder to defend against two weapons. Also, i takes team 1 as the better fighters and the both have two weapons

The Boxer
Hell, a Wolverinefanboy should know sharp weapons is a advantage:P

jokewink

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
Thats true. But still, its harder to defend against two weapons. Also, i takes team 1 as the better fighters and the both have two weapons

yes and no. bo staffs are designed to defend against two weapons.


nunucks are two wepaons my friend he wields two of them......


better fighters? Leo is the best fighter then miky then raph then Don.


also some times wielding two weapons can be a disadvantage vs skilled oponets.

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
Hell, a Wolverinefanboy should know sharp weapons is a advantage:P

jokewink

sia's arnt normally sharp....... stick out tongue

The Boxer
Capt it up, the fact is, theyre all pretty skilled. And it may be, but as you said yourself, Donatello, who has ONE weapon, it the least skilled fighter of the turtles.

The Boxer
Originally posted by capt it up
sias arnt normally sharp....... stick out tongue

DAMN! i got owned!!
sad

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
Capt it up, the fact is, theyre all pretty skilled. And it may be, but as you said yourself, Donatello, who has ONE weapon, it the least skilled fighter of the turtles.
yes, but he weapon is designed to dela with two weapons. His wepaon reach advantage is designed to combat oponet who wield two smaller weapons such as sia's.

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
DAMN! i got owned!!
sad

lol it actaully a true statment

The Boxer
Originally posted by capt it up
yes, but he weapon is designed to dela with two weapons. His wepaon reach advantage is designed to combat oponet who wield two smaller weapons such as sias.

You know, if we fights, i prefer two sias instead of a obowink
while you defends against one of my strikes, i hits with the other weaponsmile
And the way he holds his obo staff dont gives it THAT much greater reach. And again, he is the turtle in the worst shape as he uses more time inventing than fighting

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
actaully the bo staff is a rather simple weapon to use.


a kitana ( well it really not a kitana, but any ways) would likly be the next hardest weapon to use. It is simple in the sense any one can pick it up and use it however in order to full master it effectivly is mroe difficult. The bo staff is an easier weapon to master.

How do you figure the Bo is the easiest weapon to use?
The Bo is a purely defensive weapon. You have to worry more about defense than offense. Don has to worry about getting stabbed or sliced not only on his body but his hands as well. Also the amount of energy required to do damage. Yes the Bo has a long reach but, where's the offense?
The Bo reqires timing and patience, you find an oppening and strike.

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
nunckucks are made of metal as well and if im not mistaken most of the time. also you take a bo staff to the head or a nunuck you are very much dead.

Chuks are made of both wood or metal. How much energy is required to weild a Bo staff to do major damage? Alot this hightens the difficulty rating

capt it up
Originally posted by python99
How do you figure the Bo is the easiest weapon to use?
The Bo is a purely defensive weapon. You have to worry more about defense than offense. Don has to worry about getting stabbed or sliced not only on his body but his hands as well. Also the amount of energy required to do damage. Yes the Bo has a long reach but, where's the offense?
The Bo reqires timing and patience, you find an oppening and strike.
bo offesne prowess is that fact it has a long reach. It had to damage some one who you can not get close to. also a real BO staff is far longer then Don weapon. It is also easier to sue then a kitana. Bo staff a generally harder to use at first, but easier to master then the kitana. If you don't believe me be my guest and look it up


also the sia's in my oponion are the easiest to use.

capt it up
Originally posted by python99
Chuks are made of both wood or metal. How much energy is required to weild a Bo staff to do major damage? Alot this hightens the difficulty rating
not that much actaully. It ratehr easy to cause damage once you get the hang of it.

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
You know, if we fights, i prefer two sias instead of a obowink
while you defends against one of my strikes, i hits with the other weaponsmile
And the way he holds his obo staff dont gives it THAT much greater reach. And again, he is the turtle in the worst shape as he uses more time inventing than fighting

not me. If I was wielding a BO staff you never get close enough to cause me any damage what so ever.


actaully if you watch when don attacks he weapon gives him far greater reach. It true however that it not an accurate potrail of the size of an actaul bo staff.

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
bo offesne prowess is that fact it has a long reach. It had to damage some one who you can not get close to. also a real BO staff is far longer then Don weapon. It is also easier to sue then a kitana. Bo staff a generally harder to use at first, but easier to master then the kitana. If you don't believe me be my guest and look it up


also the sia's in my oponion are the easiest to use.

The Sai(s) and the Kitana are about the same in difficulty. The Kitana has a better reach than the Sai and is not required for extremely in close combat; however the Sai requires in closer combat with no sharp edges, but can be used effectively as a projectile weapon.

Post up a thread on weapon difficulty

capt it up
Originally posted by python99
The Sai(s) and the Kitana are about the same in difficulty. The Kitana has a better reach than the Sai and is not required for extremely in close combat; however the Sai requires in closer combat with no sharp edges, but can be used effectively as a projectile weapon.

Post up a thread on weapon difficulty

why?


sai's are often one of the first allowed weapon pupil can train with as well as bo staff's. Kitana are normal thought of as advanced weapons as are nunchucks

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
why?


sai's are often one of the first allowed weapon pupil can train with as well as bo staff's. Kitana are normal thought of as advanced weapons as are nunchucks

Yeah give a student in training a deadly weapon like that.

python99
Originally posted by python99
Yeah give a student in training a deadly weapon like a sai.

capt it up
sia's are not deadly though there mainly a defensive weapon. There not even sharp there tips are rounded.


your not very well versed in wepaons such as the sia are you.......

Soljer
Leo's the best fighter. In the comic series, he beat the other three one on one on at LEAST an occasion or two, if I recall correctly.

Capt is right, that Mikey is a natural, but he never trains, while Leo spends almost ALL his free time trying to hone his skills.

Team 1 wins.

Soljer
Originally posted by capt it up
sia's are not deadly though there mainly a defensive weapon. There not even sharp there tips are rounded.


your not very well versed in wepaons such as the sia are you.......

Traditionally sai's are not sharp. That doesn't mean that Raphael's aren't.

I mean, hell, Elektra's are.

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
sia's are not deadly though there mainly a defensive weapon. There not even sharp there tips are rounded.


your not very well versed in wepaons such as the sia are you.......

yeah I know they are not (traditionally) sharp i have already stated that. Don't jump to conclusions.
It just so happen that my cousin owns his on practice in the arts of Tae Kwon Do and has won numerous awards in martial arts. I have spent some time learning a thing or two as well, I am just not dedicated enough to be serious. You are right I don't know anything about Sai(s) or any other weapon for that matter, even though he has got tons of them hanging on the walls.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
actaully the bo staff is a rather sinple weapon to use.


a kitana ( well it really not a kitana, but any ways) would likly be the next hardest weapon to use. It is simple in the sense any one can pick it up and use it however in order to full master it effectivly is mroe difficult. The bo staff is an easier weapon to master.

What the f**k?

Simple to use? Yea, if you're fighting babies perhaps. The bo staff is easily one of the most complex weapons to use PROPERLY. It's reach gives Donny a big advantage over Leo and ESPECIALLY over Raph. Hell, it's design makes it one of the best to combat swords, too.

And then, of course, Mikey's got the speed.

starlock
i also think in the comics Leo was portrayed as the most skilled
Leo's team for the win

where i get my info from(some training and great friend who is a sensei)
Bo staff is first learned,then sai,then nunchauks,then would be the wakisashi samurai sword(i think thats what it is?its not a katana right?)

But hey alot of teachers have their own method of teaching and what weapons they would teach first,so nobody is right or wrong hehe

python99
IMO

Bo staff (Pros) great reach, prevents in close combat
(Cons) hands vulnerable to attack, weilder may be vulnerable to counter attacks

Sai (Pros) quick to maneauver, great as projectiles, great for trapping weapons through the ends.
(Cons) short reach, force in close combat,

Katana (Pros) both offensive and defensive effectiveness, can be affective in both short and md range combat.
(Cons) I have no Idea

Nunchuks (Pros) quick weilding, great for dissarming opponents
(Cons) short reach, may force in close combat


Feel free to post up your thoughts

The Boxer
A bo staff is hard to master and made to handle weaker opponents. I see Leo slash right through the staff...

Metalmanx
In addition, the bo staff produces the most sheer force of the four weapons. With its design and the techniques applied, it produces far more blunt force trauma than the other three combined, the nunchaku being the closes). It's a great defensive weapon against multiple weapons, so the Turtles with two weapons don't have any sort of advantage.

Blair Wind
If you guys wanna talk about weapon pro's and con's go watch Discovery Channel's Fight Science.

Anyways, Nunchucks are the hardest to control, sai's were meant as a defensive weapons against swords, the bo staff has the greatest range, and the katana is said to be the best overall weapon erm

Metalmanx
Originally posted by The Boxer
A bo staff is hard to master and made to handle weaker opponents. I see Leo slash right through the staff...

Maybe if Donny never used the staff before. erm

Even DECENT technique allows the wielder to deflect sword blows effortlessly without taking any damage to the staff itself. And Donny is a master of the bo staff, mastering all the techniques possible. Leo would not be cutting through the Donny's staff.

The Boxer
Maybe. Still, i see team 1 win

Soljer
Originally posted by Metalmanx
In addition, the bo staff produces the most sheer force of the four weapons. With its design and the techniques applied, it produces far more blunt force trauma than the other three combined, the nunchaku being the closes). It's a great defensive weapon against multiple weapons, so the Turtles with two weapons don't have any sort of advantage.

"The bo staff produces more blunt force trauma than the katana!"

"Duh? And?"

stick out tongue.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Soljer
"The bo staff produces more blunt force trauma than the katana!"

"Duh? And?"

stick out tongue.

Sure, it's pretty obvious, but I still felt like pointing it out. Donny could potentially cause some major damage against his brothers.

Soljer
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Sure, it's pretty obvious, but I still felt like pointing it out. Donny could potentially cause some major damage against his brothers.

And a slash from a Katana wouldn't cause damage? confused

The Boxer
Originally posted by Soljer
And a slash from a Katana wouldnt cause damage? confused

nope. MORTAL damage

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
In addition, the bo staff produces the most sheer force of the four weapons. With its design and the techniques applied, it produces far more blunt force trauma than the other three combined, the nunchaku being the closes). It's a great defensive weapon against multiple weapons, so the Turtles with two weapons don't have any sort of advantage.
corrrect

capt it up
Originally posted by Soljer
Leo's the best fighter. In the comic series, he beat the other three one on one on at LEAST an occasion or two, if I recall correctly.

Capt is right, that Mikey is a natural, but he never trains, while Leo spends almost ALL his free time trying to hone his skills.

Team 1 wins.
agreed.




also I know sai can be sharp I was saying normally they are not.

capt it up
actaully the reason for raph having the sia is becuase of his character. it is likly it not sharp since he is prone to rages and is the most shady of the turtles that is why he was trained in the sia which is actaully a defensive weapon. It quite decieving by looking at it.

capt it up
Originally posted by python99
IMO

Bo staff (Pros) great reach, prevents in close combat
(Cons) hands vulnerable to attack, weilder may be vulnerable to counter attacks

Sai (Pros) quick to maneauver, great as projectiles, great for trapping weapons through the ends.
(Cons) short reach, force in close combat,

Katana (Pros) both offensive and defensive effectiveness, can be affective in both short and md range combat.
(Cons) I have no Idea

Nunchuks (Pros) quick weilding, great for dissarming opponents
(Cons) short reach, may force in close combat


Feel free to post up your thoughts
correct



actaully each weapon repersent each character

bean_machine
Originally posted by Soljer
Leo's the best fighter. In the comic series, he beat the other three one on one on at LEAST an occasion or two, if I recall correctly.

Capt is right, that Mikey is a natural, but he never trains, while Leo spends almost ALL his free time trying to hone his skills.

Team 1 wins.

Leo is the best woot woot. Damn the turtles are great. Leo is the best/ Team 1 FTW.

python99
Originally posted by capt it up
correct



actaully each weapon repersent each character

True, True

Leo trains harder than any of the 3 there for he should be most skilled of the 3, howerver he has alot of self doubt

capt it up
Originally posted by python99
True, True

Leo trains harder than any of the 3 there for he should be most skilled of the 3, howerver he has alot of self doubt
true though vs his brother he knows he better. He almsot cocky around them sometimes.


the one that give him the hardest time is miky due to the fact miky in many ways bothers him even more the raph.


Miky is what leo wishes he could be in some ways

The Boxer
capt it up, are you a ninja turtles fan?smile

Loot
i still think leo, looses to a bloodlusted raphael.

team one for the win

The Boxer
raphael is aggresive. mikey have tooled him, through...

but raphael can take donatello and leonardo can take mikeywink

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Soljer
And a slash from a Katana wouldn't cause damage? confused

...I never said that. blink

Metalmanx
Originally posted by The Boxer
raphael is aggresive. mikey have tooled him, through...

but raphael can take donatello and leonardo can take mikeywink

Definitely can't agree with half of that.

I'll agree that Leo can take Mikey, but Donatello would definitely take the majority against Raph.

python99
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Definitely can't agree with half of that.

I'll agree that Leo can take Mikey, but Donatello would definitely take the majority against Raph.

I agree here. Don fights smart

Jade Lightning
I'd definitely give this fight to Raph and Leo. Leo is the leader and was the best fighter out of the group, but I think Raph is at least on his level now after seeing the most recent movie which was written by the same writers as the original comic run. Raphael beats Leonardo in a close fight on the rooftops of the city.

Mikey is the most naturally athletic of the group and would be hard to take down, but I think Donatello is going to be more of a hindrance to him than help, which is mostly why he loses. I also think that Leo and Raphael- at present- are better than the other two. That could change with the next installment.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I'd definitely give this fight to Raph and Leo. Leo is the leader and was the best fighter out of the group, but I think Raph is at least on his level now after seeing the most recent movie which was written by the same writers as the original comic run. Raphael beats Leonardo in a close fight on the rooftops of the city.

Mikey is the most naturally athletic of the group and would be hard to take down, but I think Donatello is going to be more of a hindrance to him than help, which is mostly why he loses. I also think that Leo and Raphael- at present- are better than the other two. That could change with the next installment.

While I agree that Team 1 wins, you really can't go too much by the recent movie (I saw it, too).

They showed basically ZERO feats from Mikey or Donny. There's nothing with which to compare. Did you notice this, too? The movie might as well have been called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Leonardo and Raphael". erm

masterbruce
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I'd definitely give this fight to Raph and Leo. Leo is the leader and was the best fighter out of the group, but I think Raph is at least on his level now after seeing the most recent movie which was written by the same writers as the original comic run. Raphael beats Leonardo in a close fight on the rooftops of the city.

Mikey is the most naturally athletic of the group and would be hard to take down, but I think Donatello is going to be more of a hindrance to him than help, which is mostly why he loses. I also think that Leo and Raphael- at present- are better than the other two. That could change with the next installment.

fact is Raph was made to counter Leo as Sais work best against katanas.

They wouldn't fair as well against a bo or nunchucks.

Loot
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Definitely can't agree with half of that.

I'll agree that Leo can take Mikey, but Donatello would definitely take the majority against Raph.

no way, don is one of my favorites but he is the less skilled, he would loose to raph, althou with prep he can take the 3 of them at the same time

Jade Lightning
That's actually a good point about Raphael's weapons being perfectly created to defeat Leonardo's weapons and I admit that I hadn't thought about that. As for the movie not counting, it definitely is just as credible as the original comic runs seeing as how its from Eastman and Laird, the two original writers, and the original comics focused on Raphael and Leonardo as well. Mikey and Donny didn't even have names in the first run.

Raphael has never fought against Mikey so its impossible to say who would win, although I think Raphael is the best turtle, but I think Donatello is the worste, although his weapon is very effective. There are official profiles up the whazoo hinting that he trains the least and is the least focused on combat. Leo trains the most but Raph fights the most so I think those two are the best, though Mikey has the most natural ability.

lionking
i remember in the cartoon they were all in a tournament and mike won the compation. he beat raph and went on to win

python99
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I'd definitely give this fight to Raph and Leo. Leo is the leader and was the best fighter out of the group, but I think Raph is at least on his level now after seeing the most recent movie which was written by the same writers as the original comic run. Raphael beats Leonardo in a close fight on the rooftops of the city.

Mikey is the most naturally athletic of the group and would be hard to take down, but I think Donatello is going to be more of a hindrance to him than help, which is mostly why he loses. I also think that Leo and Raphael- at present- are better than the other two. That could change with the next installment.

he broke his weapons thats hardly a win.

Jade Lightning
If your weapons get broken in a fight you're screwed. I'd call that a win dude. He should't have let his weapons get broken.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by masterbruce
Everyone is bloodlusted and fighting to their full potential!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Tmntposter3_leo.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Tmntposter1_raphael.jpg

versus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Tmntposter4.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Tmntposter2_don.jpg Leo's schooled them all before when he's serious. So this is a stomp. He and Raph are much deadlier with their weapons.

masterbruce
Originally posted by python99
he broke his weapons thats hardly a win.

that is a win. Leo was helpless after his katanas broke.

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by lionking
i remember in the cartoon they were all in a tournament and mike won the compation. he beat raph and went on to win

I wouldn't call that a fight. Mikey taunted Raph till he lost his temper and dove for him and he lost the fight when he hit the ground, Mikey didnt beat him at all. Furthermore, that series was not written by the creators like the new TMNT movie was.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Leo's schooled them all before when he's serious. So this is a stomp. He and Raph are much deadlier with their weapons.

Mikey won tournament of champions.

Also, in my OP, I said they fight to their FULL potential, so Mikey would be hands down the best fighter.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by python99
he broke his weapons thats hardly a win. He would never fight his brother like he would fight a villain either. He was schooling him until he saw it was Raph. That's like I'm in a race and my tires burst.

The reason it happened was to further the story. If Leo simply beat Raph, Raph's character wouldn't have changed, but if he was in the lesser position Raph would feel guilty instead of defying him for no reason.

Jade Lightning
I think a much better fight would be Leonardo and Donatello vs Michaelangelo and Raphael.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by masterbruce
Mikey won tournament of champions.

Also, in my OP, I said they fight to their FULL potential, so Mikey would be hands down the best fighter. Based off of what? Leonardo has beaten Shredder, none of them have.

Mikey won by lots of luck in his favor.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I think a much better fight would be Leonardo and Donatello vs Michaelangelo and Raphael.

the reason I put Mikey with Don is because I think Mikey is by far the best turtle at full potential, while Don is the worst. The other two are 2nd and 3rd.

Metalmanx
I still say Donny would beat Raph. The least training Turtle or not, he's still a master at what he does. And in addition with the bo-staff as a weapon (greatly superior to the sai), a vastly smarter/quicker thinker, and a level-headed persona, he would take Raph down after a long fight.

Loot
crap the movie is not in my contrie yet and i already know who wins the fight between them

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I think a much better fight would be Leonardo and Donatello vs Michaelangelo and Raphael.

Leo and Donny would take this match if it were set up this way.

python99
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
If your weapons get broken in a fight you're screwed. I'd call that a win dude. He should't have let his weapons get broken.


How is that a win? Its not like he dissarmed him by knocking out his hand.

Jade Lightning
And with all the Mikey having the most potential talk is really not substantiated. In the original comics he did almost nothing until later developments had him as the most NATURALLY ATHLETIC of the group, not as the most natural fighter. He is the fastest and most agile, but he is not the best fighter and it has never been explicitly stated that he has hands down the most potential. And no bloodlust means you fight to the best of the abilities you currently have.

Mikey couldn't just BE a better fighter is he tried really hard. He'd have to go through the training that he never does in order to become better. You can't just say he has the most potential, I could say that for anyone and not be able to prove it and even if it is true it doesn't mean he has all that skill right now. He did close to nothing in TMNT.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Based off of what? Leonardo has beaten Shredder, none of them have.

Mikey won by lots of luck in his favor.

It's always been hinted that Mikey is the best turtle, except he is much lazier than the other 3.

Since this is Mikey realizing his full potential, he would be def the best.

Mikey is like Ken, he has more power than Ryu, but doesn't train half as hard, yet is still pretty much his equal.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I still say Donny would beat Raph. The least training Turtle or not, he's still a master at what he does. And in addition with the bo-staff as a weapon (greatly superior to the sai), a vastly smarter/quicker thinker, and a level-headed persona, he would take Raph down after a long fight. I wouldn't give Don the edge in a straight up fight.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I wouldn't give Don the edge in a straight up fight.

And I respect your opinion. smile

However, I feel that he would win against Raph.

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by python99
How is that a win? Its not like he dissarmed him by knocking out his hand.

So you're saying that by the debating tules if two ninjas were fighting and one was using sais and one was using swords, and the one with the sais broke the other's weapons and kicked him to the ground, easily able to kill him afterwards... that's not a win?

A win doesn't have to be fair, it just has to work, which was part of the ninja code. Although he is a fictional character, Leonardo understands that and he was pretty knocked up, judging by the way he sluggishly got up after the enounter and had little energy left.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by masterbruce
It's always been hinted that Mikey is the best turtle, except he is much lazier than the other 3.

Since this is Mikey realizing his full potential, he would be def the best.

Mikey is like Ken, he has more power than Ryu, but doesn't train half as hard, yet is still pretty much his equal. No he's not, that was just something written in the new cartoon. laughing I think he has the ability to increase the fastest as he tries the least, but that won't make him leagues stronger than the other turtles. It's obvious the one who doesn't apply as much will improve faster, but the gap is still significant. In the original comics, Leonardo was much more vicious and deadly, he's not as soft as he is in recent years when they made it for the family.

Leo is called the "perfect turtle" they all train extensively. Leo is better mentally and spiritually than the other turtles, a big part.

He was the only one to naturally summon the spirit dragon.

Potential arguments are crap by themselves as they are unsubstaniated. Ken isn't stronger than Ryu either, Ryu has more potential and that's why Bison wanted him, that's why he will beat his father Akuma. Potential is a bit stupid because your potential is unlimited as long as you go, it's when you stop that it stops. Leo is only a year or two older than the other turtles.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
And with all the Mikey having the most potential talk is really not substantiated. In the original comics he did almost nothing until later developments had him as the most NATURALLY ATHLETIC of the group, not as the most natural fighter. He is the fastest and most agile, but he is not the best fighter and it has never been explicitly stated that he has hands down the most potential. And no bloodlust means you fight to the best of the abilities you currently have.

Mikey couldn't just BE a better fighter is he tried really hard. He'd have to go through the training that he never does in order to become better. You can't just say he has the most potential, I could say that for anyone and not be able to prove it and even if it is true it doesn't mean he has all that skill right now. He did close to nothing in TMNT.

Speed and agility is SO important in a fight that that alone gives Mikey a HUGE advantage.

His weapons are also the most versatile. They have reach, speed, explosive power, and even manuerverability.

Mikey at full potential and bloodlust is better than all the other turtles.

Jade Lightning
And as to Leonardo being the only one able to defeat Shredder, that's not entirely true. In the original comic run the four turtles fought against Shredder and Leo and Raph were the last ones standing. Raph is the one who disarmed Shredder and knocked him to the ground. He was about to kill him- much like in the movie against Leo- but allowed Leo to have the finishing blow and decapitate Shredder. This is noted as "the most significant stage in Raphael's character developement." by the writers. As he ALLOWS Leo to kill Shredder.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ken isn't stronger than Ryu either,

Ryu trains every second of every day.

Ken chases girls every second of every day.

Yet Ken still holds his own against Ryu.

If Ken trained even a fraction as much as Ryu, he would beat Ryu.

And potential is not pointless. Ken has the potential to beat Ryu, whereas E Honda can train as much as he wants and he'll never come close.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
And as to Leonardo being the only one able to defeat Shredder, that's not entirely true. In the original comic run the four turtles fought against Shredder and Leo and Raph were the last ones standing. Raph is the one who disarmed Shredder and knocked him to the ground. He was about to kill him- much like in the movie against Leo- but allowed Leo to have the finishing blow and decapitate Shredder. This is noted as "the most significant stage in Raphael's character developement." by the writers. As he ALLOWS Leo to kill Shredder. No, they ganged up on him and Leo told him to kill himself, but Shredder refused.

In the movie, Leo was the only one to hit him, but he rushed and Shred threatened to kill him. They gave up their weapons.

Leo has been the only one to consistently put up a good fight against him, Shredder has wanted him as his pupil on several occasions.

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by masterbruce
Speed and agility is SO important in a fight that that alone gives Mikey a HUGE advantage.

His weapons are also the most versatile. They have reach, speed, explosive power, and even manuerverability.

Mikey at full potential and bloodlust is better than all the other turtles.

I know by the way you speak that you have little knowledge about martial weapons. I am a martial artist and have been training since I was young, and Myself along with most others- including my Shihan- consider the Nunchakus to be among the worste weapons to use in combat. As someone mentionaed about the NGC video Fight Science, as well as in Xtreme Martial Arts from the Discovery Channel, they are unpredictable and not as damaging as the other weapons. They are also terrible for defense and not durable. It is a poorly made weapons made more for show and intimidation than actual combat.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by masterbruce
Ryu trains every second of every day.

Ken chases girls every second of every day.

Yet Ken still holds his own against Ryu.

If Ken trained even a fraction as much as Ryu, he would beat Ryu.

And potential is not pointless. Ken has the potential to beat Ryu, whereas E Honda can train as much as he wants and he'll never come close. No, Ken trains extensively but is married. Ryu and Leo don't just train their bodies, alot of it's spent on training their minds.

Ryu has the longest winning streak of the two, but Ken can hold his own. But canonically Ryu is quite a bit stronger after training with Oro.

Which is why he holds his own against Akuma (which ken couldn't do), Bison wants him, Oro trains him. Ryu was shown to have more potential early on, he is the potential type.

python99
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
So you're saying that by the debating tules if two ninjas were fighting and one was using sais and one was using swords, and the one with the sais broke the other's weapons and kicked him to the ground, easily able to kill him afterwards... that's not a win?

A win doesn't have to be fair, it just has to work, which was part of the ninja code. Although he is a fictional character, Leonardo understands that and he was pretty knocked up, judging by the way he sluggishly got up after the enounter and had little energy left.

A win is does not have to be fair, agreed, but as far as being a ninja where is the honor? So Raph is a better fighter because he broke Leo's weapons? Hand to hand combat should determines the better fighter, since all the weapons have their strengths and weaknesses. ie Raph breaking Leos weapons with a forceful wrist twist

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, they ganged up on him and Leo told him to kill himself, but Shredder refused.

In the movie, Leo was the only one to hit him, but he rushed and Shred threatened to kill him. They gave up their weapons.

Leo has been the only one to consistently put up a good fight against him, Shredder has wanted him as his pupil on several occasions.

Raphael is the one who was going to kill Shredder, it was him and Leo vs Shredder and he LET Leo win. Besides, that doesn't really matter now because in chronological order, the new TMNT movie is the most credible source we have because it is written by the two original comic writers and takes place after all of the other shows and movies.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I know by the way you speak that you have little knowledge about martial weapons. I am a martial artist and have been training since I was young, and Myself along with most others- including my Shihan- consider the Nunchakus to be among the worste weapons to use in combat. As someone mentionaed about the NGC video Fight Science, as well as in Xtreme Martial Arts from the Discovery Channel, they are unpredictable and not as damaging as the other weapons. They are also terrible for defense and not durable. It is a poorly made weapons made more for show and intimidation than actual combat.

nuchakus are hard to master and are useless in the hands of amateurs. But a true master of nunchakus could def beat a master of sais or bo, I'm not sure about katanas.

Loot

Superboy Prime
For the record ninjas were not honorable.

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by python99
A win is does not have to be fair, agreed, but as far as being a ninja where is the honor? So Raph is a better fighter because he broke Leo's weapons? Hand to hand combat should determines the better fighter, since all the weapons have their strengths and weaknesses. ie Raph breaking Leos weapons with a forceful wrist twist

I'm going to give you my final thoughts on this side-subject. I think that in overall skill Leo and Raph are about equal, having an equal chance at beating one another. I completely disagree with you saying the Raphael's disarming Leo in the movie is not a win, because that's just about as good a win as I could iagine without Raph killing his brother. I think those two are the best turtles and I think where Leo is probably more skilled in weapon fighter, Raph has a more natural affinity for combat, getting more actual fighting experience than Leo.

Jade Lightning
Originally posted by masterbruce
nuchakus are hard to master and are useless in the hands of amateurs. But a true master of nunchakus could def beat a master of sais or bo, I'm not sure about katanas.

That's completely rediculous. A master of the Nunchakus would be terrible against a bo-master... actually he would have almost no chance against the superior reach. As far as said go yes he would have a better chance but overall it is a poor weapons and sais are the best defensive weapon.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by masterbruce
nuchakus are hard to master and are useless in the hands of amateurs. But a true master of nunchakus could def beat a master of sais or bo, I'm not sure about katanas.

Actually, I believe the bo-staff to be a superior weapon to the nunchaku. They're very easily deflectable by a staff for one.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
That's completely rediculous. A master of the Nunchakus would be terrible against a bo-master... actually he would have almost no chance against the superior reach. As far as said go yes he would have a better chance but overall it is a poor weapons and sais are the best defensive weapon.

Agreed.

Loot

python99
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I'm going to give you my final thoughts on this side-subject. I think that in overall skill Leo and Raph are about equal, having an equal chance at beating one another. I completely disagree with you saying the Raphael's disarming Leo in the movie is not a win, because that's just about as good a win as I could iagine without Raph killing his brother. I think those two are the best turtles and I think where Leo is probably more skilled in weapon fighter, Raph has a more natural affinity for combat, getting more actual fighting experience than Leo.


Well, it was more of an " Damn! I can't believe I broke your weapons"
rather than a, " well! I knocked the weapons out of your hands"
but I get your drift

Tha C-Master

Kento
Leo and Raph would win every single time. Donny isn't as skilled, and while Mikey can beat Raph he couldn't beat Leo.

Wait Raph and Leo working together....Don and Mikey might be able to win on that alone. Raph and Leo would actually have to work together while Mikey and Don have a better chance at it.

So yea I change my answer to Don and Mikey. A bloodlusted Raph won't listen to Leo or anything anyways.

Loot

Superboy Prime
A bloodlusted Raphael will spell trouble for Mikey & Don. Then you have Leonardo on Raphael's side.

Team 1 for the win.

geshien
team 2 ftw.

donnie is imo, the best. he's got brains and a bow staff; argubly the best melee weapon you can have.

leo has shown to be the most diciplined and skilled.

mikey and raph are the goof offs and hot heads. not saying they're weak, just not the leaders in the team nor the winners in this fight.

bloodlust maybe on, but they'll (donnnie and leo) still hold true to their nature, and win the fight.

Tha C-Master

brainchild81
Originally posted by masterbruce
Ryu trains every second of every day.

Ken chases girls every second of every day.

Yet Ken still holds his own against Ryu.

If Ken trained even a fraction as much as Ryu, he would beat Ryu.

And potential is not pointless. Ken has the potential to beat Ryu, whereas E Honda can train as much as he wants and he'll never come close. Ditto. Ken's what they call a "natural". A Ken that trains as hard as Ryu is very likely a Ken that beats the shite out of Ryu. Ken's actually beaten him a few times. Ryu has a slightly better record. Originally posted by Metalmanx
I still say Donny would beat Raph. The least training Turtle or not, he's still a master at what he does. And in addition with the bo-staff as a weapon (greatly superior to the sai), a vastly smarter/quicker thinker, and a level-headed persona, he would take Raph down after a long fight. Ditto. Although I'm not sure it would take long. Raph is too easy to manipulate because of his anger & would get his ass handed to him by the calculating & quick thinking Don. I wanna see this new movie because I grew up w/the TMNT, but it looked too kiddie for me in the ads. I also don't like the idea of Mike & Don not being important in it. That sux. Leo's normally the best fighter, but that's only because Mike likes to f**k around. A bloodlusted Mike sounds scary. I also think Raph is the worst fighter because he has no self control. Team Duece for the win.

P.S. Same As It Never Was was the best episode ever. Don's the most important turtle. Just wanted to put that useless data out there laughing

geshien
Originally posted by geshien
team 2 ftw.

donnie is imo, the best. he's got brains and a bow staff; argubly the best melee weapon you can have.

leo has shown to be the most diciplined and skilled.

mikey and raph are the goof offs and hot heads. not saying they're weak, just not the leaders in the team nor the winners in this fight.

bloodlust maybe on, but they'll (donnnie and leo) still hold true to their nature, and win the fight.

opps... i read it wrong.

ok, leo and raph vs donnie and mikey?

hmmm...

team 2. donnie and mikey work well together while leo and raph don't.

Loot
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well it said Leo was 16 or 17, Mikey was 15.
It's

Leo
Raph
Don
Mike.

where does it say that?

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Loot
where does it say that? Try the official site. Look at their bios, they aren't all the same age. They only mutated at the same time.

Ryu is more of a natural then Ken. Physically and non-physically.

Leo is the better fighter, even a serious Mike hasn't accomplished what Leo has, he might in years, but that's a "might".

LORDSIDIOUS01
Where is Master Splinter? Where is Shredder?

capt it up
Originally posted by The Boxer
capt it up, are you a ninja turtles fan?smile
yes I am .

capt it up
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I think a much better fight would be Leonardo and Donatello vs Michaelangelo and Raphael.

very true

Redatom65
I never liked the turtles, my favorite though was Donatello, though if I recall correctly he was the worst fighter, right? team 1 probably wins

capt it up
Don is the least skilled of the group.

he also has the least potential.


Raph is the superior fighter to don and would most diffently win the fight as would miky.

Leo is the most skilled of the group then would go miky and raph with Don trailing the group though thill mensly skilled fighter


Leo has never once defeated all his brothers at once.

His brothers would clearly over whealm him if they were all to attack him.

capt it up
Originally posted by Redatom65
I never liked the turtles, my favorite though was Donatello, though if I recall correctly he was the worst fighter, right? team 1 probably wins
yup

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by capt it up


Leo is the most skilled of the group then would go miky and raph with Don trailing the group though thill mensly skilled fighter


Leo has never once defeated all his brothers at once.

Raph is more skilled then Mike.

Yes he has, you just don't want to say Mike has lost to him. You have no problem with Raph and Don doing so, but not Mike.

I didn't say they couldn't beat him, but he HAS beaten them...

Loot
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Raph is more skilled then Mike.

Yes he has, you just don't want to say Mike has lost to him. You have no problem with raph and Don doing so, but not Mike.

I didn't say they couldn't beat him, but he HAS beaten them...

in what issue was that?
and yes raph is better then mike, always was always will

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Loot
in what issue was that?
and yes raph is better then mike, always was always will He's done it in the old episodes (I'll have to dig comics). And in the new one he did it again. He was a bit cocky, and Splinter asked him why he won, and he was saying it was because of his Katana being the superior weapon. Splinter asked Leonardo to attack him, and he refused at first. Eventually he did, and Splinter caught his Katana saying "it's not the weapon, it's the warrior wielding it".

Leonardo got a bit mad and was laughed at by his brothers, that was when he left and he met Shredder (without his armor). His foot surrounded Leonardo and Shredder wanted Leonardo to be his disciple. Leonardo refused.

Different interpretations of the turtles have different things however, I'm not denying that, just saying it happened.

Loot

Entity
Leo and Ralph without a doubt!

Oh, and Leo IS the best with Ralph in a close second. Then it's Donnie and Mike last.
Mike is mainly last cause he is the least serious of the group!

Entity

Loot

Entity

capt it up
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Raph is more skilled then Mike.

Yes he has, you just don't want to say Mike has lost to him. You have no problem with Raph and Don doing so, but not Mike.

I didn't say they couldn't beat him, but he HAS beaten them...
no I don't have a problem with sayign miky has lost to leo. I even stated Leo would defeat miky


however when has Leo ever defeated all 3 of his brothers at once? Can you provide evdience of this?

Hell can you provide evidence of Leo beating miky period when one of hsi brothers was aiding him?


Actaully raph is not more skilled then miky. That your opinion not fact

Loot

capt it up
Originally posted by Entity
Oh, I never said any of them weren't great ninjas!

Its just this is about how they rank and to me its,

1. Leo
2. Ralph
3. Donnie
4. Mike

their all great thou. and together they are >>> then the sum of their parts!
please stop. I honestly can't take it any longer. Please I am sorry your a god guy and you know your stuff msot fo the tiem, but you are so far off right not it not even funny.

Don is the least skilled it not even debatable.


Raph ahs neevr defeat miky in combat not has he ever proven to be miky superior. he actaully been amde to look the fool by miky on more then one occassions. So please stop with thsi comments when they are far from true.


I know you don't mean it, but you frankly wrong.

Wolverine2006
Leo & Raph take this....Leo is the best fighter of the TMNT, and Raph is the 2nd coolest...it doest matter if Mike has the potential to be the best, he isnt, Leo is the best. Leo is the leader for a reason.

capt it up

Loot

capt it up

Loot
Originally posted by capt it up
in cannon comics they are not dead and there comic line still comes out.....

I know that, i said that the image comics of the TMNT were not cannon if you read it again.
I was just curious to know how they died and how. taht is if they reaaly died, sometimes my memory plays tricks on me roll eyes (sarcastic)

capt it up

capt it up
I can't remeber ugg either miky dies first and has a huge statue created in nhis name for what he accomplish or he dies last and also gets a statue in his name.


All I remeber is miky gets a statue in his name becuas ehe was able to defeat some powerful being that his brothers were unable to defeat.

actaully now that I think of it he may have died first.....I think his rest of his brothers lost heart in fighting becuase of miky sacrifice.

capt it up
there also a comic line were raphs a vampire........

Loot

capt it up

Entity
Originally posted by capt it up
please stop. I honestly can't take it any longer. Please I am sorry your a god guy and you know your stuff msot fo the tiem, but you are so far off right not it not even funny.

Don is the least skilled it not even debatable.


Raph ahs neevr defeat miky in combat not has he ever proven to be miky superior. he actaully been amde to look the fool by miky on more then one occassions. So please stop with thsi comments when they are far from true.


I know you don't mean it, but you frankly wrong.

Look I am a huge Turtles fan from way back too. I admit it is mostly of the cartoon thou but, everything I've ever seen indicates Leo is the best with Ralph a close second. (Mainly due to his temper but still second) Also Donnie is from everything I've seen the better fighter to Mike when he wants to be. It just seems to me Donnie has the least interest in violence and Mike is just the least serious. So the main reason Mike is on the bottom of the list is because he just doesn't push himself the way the rest do. Even then thou, they are all exceptionally skilled ninjas. So I am not trying to down play anyone. Leo is my favorite but hell if anyone Ralph is probably my least, thou I love them all, so this isn't me trying to make Ralph out to be more than he is. Donnie either for that matter. This is just how everything has always looked to me and no offense to Mikey but he normally only beats then others, on the rare occasions he has, because of dumb luck.

Seriously all the turtles rule. IMO

Leo's the man thou. stick out tongue

capt it up
Originally posted by Entity
Look I am a huge Turtles fan from way back too. I admit it is mostly of the cartoon thou but, everything I've ever seen indicates Leo is the best with Ralph a close second. (Mainly due to his temper but still second) Also Donnie is from everything I've seen the better fighter to Mike when he wants to be. It just seems to me Donnie has the least interest in violence and Mike is just the least serious. So the main reason Mike is on the bottom of the list is because he just doesn't push himself the way the rest do. Even then thou, they are all exceptionally skilled ninjas. So I am not trying to down play anyone. Leo is my favorite but hell if anyone Ralph is probably my least, thou I love them all, so this isn't me trying to make Ralph out to be more than he is. Donnie either for that matter. This is just how everything has always looked to me and no offense to Mikey but he normally only beats then others, on the rare occasions he has, because of dumb luck.

Seriously all the turtles rule. IMO

Leo's the man thou. stick out tongue

But see your making assumption off of things such as miky not being serous......


I am sorry, but your opinion is straight up wrong.


I read the comics and every thing you have said ecpt for leo being the most skilled is false my friend.


also If you go by the cartoon miky with out trying beat rough with out using his hands.......


I am sorry, but your opinion on this matter is far from accurate or knowledgable it based of pure speculation that are not even true.


Don is the worst fighter of the group it a straight up fact. he trains the least again it a straight up fact. he has the least potential again straight up fact.

Miky and raph are about equals in skill. Raph has never once defeat miky in combat in the comic or in the cartoon. Cartoon wise miky has defeated raph however.....


I am sorry if I sound mean, but it the truth that you statment have been made with out proper knowledge of the characters and off pure speculations from a cartoon that you probly have not seen in at least 4 years.

brainchild81
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ryu is more of a natural then Ken. Physically and non-physically. Nah. That's just not true CM. Ryu clearly wants it more and trains way harder to accomplish it. Hell, he was willing to kill Sagat in order to win. All Ryu does is train & fight. Ken nails his wife and has kids to look after. Ken doesn't train as much as Ryu and always gives him a hard time to go and can even pull off a win now & then. If Ken trained as hard as Ryu he'd very likely beat the piss out of Ryu. It's in many of his profiles. Ken's always been described as a naturalOriginally posted by capt it up
Don is the least skilled of the group.

he also has the least potential.


Raph is the superior fighter to don and would most diffently win the fight as would miky.

Leo is the most skilled of the group then would go miky and raph with Don trailing the group though thill mensly skilled fighter
Mikey would probably beat Don, but seriously, where is it said or even implied that Raph is better than Don? Only thing I've ever seen Raph do is get OWNED with very little effort by Mike. I seriously doubt he'd own Don like that.

Looks more like Leo, Mike, Don & then Raph

Symmetric Chaos
Well Donatello is the only one with his own smiley . . . so

donatello ftw

Jade Lightning

brainchild81
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well Donatello is the only one with his own smiley . . . so

donatello ftw laughing exactly. The only thing that seems certain is that Mike is better than Raph.

capt it up
old cartoon. Here what happens when miky gets angry......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDUPofyA7wM

capt it up
Originally posted by brainchild81
Nah. That's just not true CM. Ryu clearly wants it more and trains way harder to accomplish it. Hell, he was willing to kill Sagat in order to win. All Ryu does is train & fight. Ken nails his wife and has kids to look after. Ken doesn't train as much as Ryu and always gives him a hard time to go and can even pull off a win now & then. If Ken trained as hard as Ryu he'd very likely beat the piss out of Ryu. It's in many of his profiles. Ken's always been described as a natural Mikey would probably beat Don, but seriously, where is it said or even implied that Raph is better than Don? Only thing I've ever seen Raph do is get OWNED with very little effort by Mike. I seriously doubt he'd own Don like that.

Looks more like Leo, Mike, Don & then Raph

in official bio's it has stated this......

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