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Which old man would win?

Dooku obviously

Force Powers are close but Dooku might win there by just a little. Saber is close, too, but Dooku if definately a little bit ahead of him there, too.


Overall Dooku wins with a little difficulty.

I was under the impression Dooku would destroy Ben in a sword fight. Dooku is an experienced Sith Lord, who frequently sharpens his skill with a blade and has mastered Makashi to its highest degree. Obi-Wan however has hardly touched his blade in years - and from the movies we can tell that he is unable to move as agile as Dooku can. I would personally say Dooku is a fair notch or two above him with a sword.

Force. Meh, I dont really know. Dooku was in another league than Kenobi with the force in ROTS, but now he has had years of doing nothing but increasing his force prowess on Tatooine. Dooku might have the advantage because of his arsenal of offencive force manoeuvres - as oppose to Kenobis more passive abilities.

Can someone give me the proof where Obi-Wan has expanded so much with the force? Cause by watching the movies I seriously cannot tell any difference.....

The fact that the poll at the moment is 3-2 is a testament to how much Dooku is underrated on these boards.

I agree, com on people Dooku wins.

Count Dooku is hardly underrated, Rampant. You weren't here during the days that certain (well respected and intelligent) debaters suggested and fiercely argued that Dooku was the most powerful of the prequel trilogy; he's at the perfect spot.

However, Count Dooku would win this. He's battle-hardened and experienced, whereas Kenobi has been sitting on his ass, babysitting Luke from afar. But as far as the lack of speed Kenobi had, we can attribute this to piss-poor choreography. Because, even an out-of-practice Kenobi should certainly have supernatural speed that they simply couldn't highlight at the time.

He had gotten a bit slower, but was just as precise.

I wouldn't be so sure, he had barley picked up his saber since ROTS....

Originally posted by Gideon
Count Dooku is hardly underrated, Rampant. You weren't here during the days that certain (well respected and intelligent) debaters suggested and fiercely argued that Dooku was the most powerful of the prequel trilogy; he's at the perfect spot.

I regret i wasn't, back then here.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I regret i wasn't, back then here.

That's really dumb to want bias...

And, even if you would want to be here then, that era had its price

I was joking, or was i?

If dooku can beat rots ben he can easily beat anh ben. Ben is older, haven't use his lightsaber for a while and as darth vader said "your powers are weak old man".

Dooku easily.

When he said he was- your powers are weak old man- he was taunting him, ANH Obi -Wan isn't weak, but yea, Dooku wins.

Proove it... As far as we see and it was stated in the movie, obi-wan's powers were reduced.

But he still could keep up with Vader, i am not saying he is better then Vader, because Vader is better, but if he was so weak, Vader could have killed him easily.

He could "keep up" with vader? They barely move their lightsabers (and with an unimpressive speed and precision) until ben let vader strike him down...



And vader killed him easily...

Originally posted by kamhal
He could "keep up" with vader? They barely move their lightsabers (and with an unimpressive speed and precision) until ben let vader strike him down...



And vader killed him easily...

You are judging them by actors and so what the fight was short, Yodas and Dookus was and Anakins and Dookus was also and Vader only killed him easily because Obi-Wan let him.

I didn't say the fight was short, i simply said that obi just did nothing to vader, he just defended some blows from vader, then vader said he was weak now, and obi just let vader kill him

So, with observations and statements, i think we can easily say that rots ben>anh ben, and if dooku beats rots ben, then it would be even easier to beat anh ben...

Originally posted by kamhal


I agree, i never said that Obi would win, i just argued that he isn't weak.
And Dooku is my favorite character.

Yeah, i saw it, i was just arg with you because you said obi's powers wasn't reduced and i think it's clear that his powers have been reduced.

I said, that he isn't as weak as Vader has said, but maybe his power deteriorated a bit, i didn't read ANH novel.

Kenobi did actually have a lot of speed in the film, when he takes out Ponda Baba and Doctor Evazan both in about half a second. But I agree that the saber duel is only slow due to poor choreography.



And to kamhal:
Vader was only mocking Kenobi, Kenobi's pwoers aren't weak, as he proves by becoming a Force Ghost, and also I believe that the script states that kenobi and Vader are even in their duel (correct me if I'm wrong) so unless Vader is weak...

If Kenobi is even(or a little bit weaker than)with Vader, then why so many people seems think that Vader can beat Dooku?

That's a really good question. I'm am a part of the 20% that believes that Dooku is above OT Vader, but you bring up an excellent point. vader11, judging by your screen name I assume that you are a Vader fan, without elaborating on why, do you think that OT Vader could take out Dooku? Just curious.

Also, on the subject of Kenobi's pwoers being weak, that's just Vader taunting Kenobi as I've checked the script and it says "The two powerful warriors stand motionless for a few moments with laser swords locked in mid-air, creating a low buzzing sound."

So Kenobi IS powerful, and what Vader said was merely a taunt.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
That's really dumb to want bias...

And, even if you would want to be here then, that era had its price

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
STFU RETARDED NOOB
1.he ***** slaps kun's head off
2.cuts them both in half with one swing
3.Sidious Kneels and beggs for knowledge....
4.he knows simus's weak spots in dueling but before he engages him,he cuts sadow in half head to groin then has another tuff fight with simus but finishes him of quicker with a deathfield that rejuvenates ragnos and kills simus
5.uber pwnage
6.rapes him constantly for 1 hour nonstop
7.makes out with leia...


LTFOL I'm really lucly i wasnt here in that time

that debater was talkin about Ragnos

Originally posted by darthsith19
That's a really good question. I'm am a part of the 20% that believes that Dooku is above OT Vader, but you bring up an excellent point. vader11, judging by your screen name I assume that you are a Vader fan, without elaborating on why, do you think that OT Vader could take out Dooku? Just curious.

I would say that would be a close fight. Both of them have a chance to win, I would give Dooku 60% of chance winning while Vader has 40%...
PS: Vader is cool, and I like him, but I am not his super fan.

Originally posted by vader11
Which old man would win? Dooku was owning Ben in AOTC, let alone ANH....

Originally posted by ~Pielover~
Dooku was owning Ben in AOTC, let alone ANH....
Except ANH Ben > AOTC Ben, so while your right in your answer you're wrong in your logic. ROTS Kenobi > ANH Kenobi > AOTC Kenobi > TPM Kenobi

The point is Dooku is better then Kenobi.

Not sure why anyone would even consider this a fight. Dooku by far.

Yea Dooku pwns here, and there is no way that ANH Ben could beat a AOTC OB1. He might more control over his force abilities, but the younger OB1 would slay his golden years counterpart...with ease. I am of course assuming that by "ANH Ben > AOTC Ben" you mean that old Ben would win...

I don't know, AOTC Kenobi hasn't mastered Soreusu yet as ROTS Kenobi and ANH Kenobi skill has probably deteriorated little, but i think he is still a master. I could be wrong.

OB1's speed and agility alone could tear old Ben apart. You see how slow and unagile (i know thats not a word) old Ben is...young Kenobi fought Maul (yes I know in TPM) and Dooku, and the battle of Geonosis. Old Ben wouldnt survive that, nor would her survive himself 23 years from the past.

Yea but he is more experienced and could contest with Vader, he would still lose, even if trying to kill Vader, but i don't know, i think it would be a close fight between AOTC KEnobi and ANH Kenobi.

Vader was toying with him, trying to wear him down. More experience doesn't earn you a victory. Remember Dooku's demise?

I know experience isn't guarantee for victory, but it is a small advantage and ANH Kenobi knows AOTC allot bether then the other way around.
And how do you know he was toying with him, was it in the novel, if it was i will concede.

AHN Obi is probably much stronger in the force than AOTC Obi...

I believe Gideon posted something about that from the script, saying he wanted to wear him down to basically humiliate him to show he was now much better than him. I think...so check with Gideon.

Ok, wil see.

Jollyjim posted that.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jollyjim posted that.

I did? Maybe...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
OB1's speed and agility alone could tear old Ben apart. You see how slow and unagile (i know thats not a word) old Ben is...young Kenobi fought Maul (yes I know in TPM) and Dooku, and the battle of Geonosis. Old Ben wouldnt survive that, nor would her survive himself 23 years from the past.

I know, he was almost as clumsy as Mace or Sidious in saber combat, as we see in ROTS, am I right? Sucky choreography=/ sucky characters.

Also, Ben is much younger than Dooku.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Also, Ben is much younger than Dooku. 57 vs 80 years old...but they look almost same age

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I did? Maybe...



I know, he was almost as clumsy as Mace or Sidious in saber combat, as we see in ROTS, am I right? Sucky choreography=/ sucky characters.

Also, Ben is much younger than Dooku.

Right, i know that; however, you cant tell me that ANH Ben is anywhere near as good as his younger counterpart in saber skills. OB1 practices, uses his saber in real life situations -- some saber duels, sometimes not -- but what could Ben do? Use a little remote droid? That in no way equates the same level as what he did as a young Jedi. Now i said his force mastery should be higher, but what good is that if you have a saber in your face?

Originally posted by vader11
57 vs 80 years old...but they look almost same age

Thats because Old Ben was probably meant to be older, of the time of the OT.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Right, i know that; however, you cant tell me that ANH Ben is anywhere near as good as his younger counterpart in saber skills. OB1 practices, uses his saber in real life situations -- some saber duels, sometimes not -- but what could Ben do? Use a little remote droid? That in no way equates the same level as what he did as a young Jedi. Now i said his force mastery should be higher, but what good is that if you have a saber in your face?

I didn't say he was as good as ROTS Kenobi. I just said that he could take Sidious in lightsaber combat. Mace too. They're slow.

Thats sarcasm, right, tell me it is.

Noes!

We see how slow they are in the movie. Now, assuming we're discarding all EU and facts about the characters that aren't right there on screen (like some people frequently do for the OT), then, I stand by what I said.

I sense your upset, calm down, take a deep breath, see, its all better now.

Not upset, just sarcastic.

But even if we would disregard facts and EU, Kenobi still couldn't defeat the Sidious who was fighting with Yoda, he was much faster, then the one fighting Mace.

ok then give me some EU feats of old ben...

Sidious and Mace were slow in their fight. But in the later fight with Yoda, Sidious fights much faster...

Maybe cuz Mace used Vaapad so he had an advantage... dunno, really, though

No, because bot Sam. Jackson and Ian Mcdarmisd did the fights, but Sidious and Yodas is all CGI. Just because it was slow in the movies, doesn't mean their characters are slow or suck.

Yeah, but that's not what we were discussing. IN the MOVIE Sidious seems slow fighting Mace, but his speed increases by some margin when he fights Yoda

Originally posted by Riverollv
Yeah, but that's not what we were discussing. IN the MOVIE Sidious seems slow fighting Mace, but his speed increases by some margin when he fights Yoda Coz Yoda is faster

What does Yoda being faster has to do with what i said...?

Yoda is faster so Sidious has to fight faster too

Originally posted by Riverollv
Yeah, but that's not what we were discussing. IN the MOVIE Sidious seems slow fighting Mace, but his speed increases by some margin when he fights Yoda

It's pretty obvious that he held back against Mace, so that would explain it.

But Yoda is probably faster than Mace

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It's pretty obvious that he held back against Mace, so that would explain it.

That is highly speculated by many people, though there's NOTHING to prove that yet. Some say that's becuz he was waiting for Anakin to come and rescue him, but there's nothing to it, or at least not yet

Yeah, I don't think there is any proof yet...

They went full out, Mace is just a better swordsman, but if this was an all out fight, if Sidious used Force powers as well he would win.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
They went full out, Mace is just a better swordsman, but if this was an all out fight, if Sidious used Force powers as well he would win. Agree. Mace is probably the better swordman, but if Sidious use the force, I don't see Mace can defeat him...

Yoda couldn't and he is more powerful then Mace.

Actually it is stated that Yoda = Sidious in both, Force powers and saber comat. The scenario was simply very complicated for Yoda to fight greatly Well, I'm leaving, return in an hour or so, bye

I didn't mean Sidious is better(but i would give a small edge to him, because of his offensive powers), i just said that Yoda didn't defeat him and that scenario was complicated, is just an excuse, he had to kill him and he didn't.

So why Sidious didn't use force against Mace?

I don't know, maybe he thought he was better with a saber, i also never understood, if it was a real fight and everything suggests that it was, why didn't he use the Force on Mace.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I don't know, maybe he thought he was better with a saber, i also never understood, if it was a real fight and everything suggests that it was, why didn't he use the Force on Mace. Except that he was waiting for Anakin, but there's no proof...

I don't know.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I don't know. Perhaps you are right, Sidious think he is good enough to fight Mace with saber. Or maybe he didn't has chance to use the force?

That makes sense, Dooku couldn't use them, because Anakin was all ower him, maybe Mace was all owes Sidious as well.

That actually makes sense, and it turns down the "Sidious was waiting for Anakin!" thing, so, cool

Yeaaay.

Coz there's nothing to prove "Sidious was waiting for Anakin"

Exactly.