Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

These are little details in the commentary/pictures to explain characters and all.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2dl5b29.jpg

Will's necklace. What is his bauble? Did he have it in COTBP? Who gave it to him? I don't remember him wearing it when he was a little boy. It stays with him in AWE, too.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4gfhs92.jpg

Gasp! The lockets are faces! That is so cool.

http://i3.tinypic.com/4gij8sm.jpg

I actually think this is really sweet. He's not really sniffing her dress, but kind of just pressing against it. At this point, he knows she's safe and he misses her.

T&T say here, and this is interesting, that "He's also learned that she can take care of herself." Did he not know that before? Why is that so pivotal? Is that a character flaw? More to come!

http://i11.tinypic.com/29vbj9x.jpg

T&T felt the need to point out how much they like that Liz is screaming here, that she "can't always be cool." While that's funny, running from an angry mob, not being shy about screaming.....similarities between her and someone else are adding up.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2eo86e8.jpg

Gasp again! The lock here is a heart AND a crab!

http://i3.tinypic.com/29usyly.jpg

Now that I have Sailorleo's attention (hee hee) yes, this is James, but I think it's interesting who he looks at here. He sees the jar of dirt, puts two and two together, and then looks over at Jack. Jack. Why should he look at him of all people before taking it? He hesitates and looks at Jack. Is that some kind of deep vendetta? Any way, I think it's cool.

http://i7.tinypic.com/49imart.jpg

Gibbs bravely turning hard to starboard, helping save all of them OR him in the middle of sex with a wheel? You decide. More to come!

http://i11.tinypic.com/4dlnltz.jpg

Just to let everyone know where our heroes are.

http://i12.tinypic.com/441bg2o.jpg

I never noticed before just how hard it is for her to get up those stairs. Liz has had a bad day, cut her some slack.

Okay, I'm interrupting the picture interlude for a brief discussion. In the scene where Jack is in the longboat and whips out the compass, T&T have a small debate on where it points. One kind of half-jokes that it's pointing to land. The other says, "Well, I think it's been pointing to the same place all along and...well I won't say." Hmmmm.

ur very good at captions with these pics willo!! i love it!

http://i5.tinypic.com/3yrak93.jpg

This is the last one, and I think it's important. We've discussed how Will was busy thinking about his priorities first, about how much he wants the Pearl to save his dad. Then he looks over at Liz, and this is the expression he makes. He's willing to put his priorities aside for her, and I hate to say it, but he loves her, guys. I refuse to debate if Will and Jack both really love her because I think they both do and if you have doubts about Will, look at this picture.

I like Gibbs expression lol

Oh I got a great, interesting pic

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/7/3/30/f_VTS01165400m_87171a0.jpg

Hee hee, I captured this hug a few seconds before or after you did. Liz seems shocked that he hugs her, but she smiles back at him. It's cute. I think she and Gibbs will bond.

But I don't think Will looks too happy lol. Kidding, Will was a little piss that Jack wouldn't turn around to get his father back.

Oh, willo. That pic of Will in Tia's hut by the end of DMC, I want to compare it with this pic:

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/3/30/f_VTS01172900m_7cce378.jpg

This was before he looked at Liz crying, while he was stabbing the table with the knife.

He looked angry for not being able to rescue his father, for Jack "electing himself to stay behind" and taking down the Pearl with him which was going to be of good use for Will.

With the screaming Elizabeth picture, similarities to whom?

Oh savvysparrow, look at your avvy, at perhaps it will answer your own question?

nice siggy and avvy siriuswriter!

thank you pirate179.

I'm just reminded of how much Will looks like a sweatier version of Erroll Flynn in that DMC "sticking the knife into the table" pic.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Oh savvysparrow, look at your avvy, at perhaps it will answer your own question?


Ha! Thanks, I didn't even think about it.

giggle...I don't remember seeing Will screaming.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
With the screaming Elizabeth picture, similarities to whom?

Jack....Jack is always screaming.....similarities to Jack...he's not afraid to scream....


http://i13.tinypic.com/4e0y7if.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/2vw8hoj.jpg

he so cute when he screams!!!

Realistic, too. Who wouldn't scream?

i know!

I dunno..

when he screams at the cannibal island, he reminds me of tarzan.

Oooh, pretty pictures. I'm just labeling them in order of pictures posted, starting with your first post...


1. Will's necklace...I think it's Orlando's own personal necklace that he's incorporated into Will's character, which is kind of fun. He's started collecting things. Jack certainly does rub off on the young'uns, doesn't he?


2. I so want the lockets, even if the face is kinda scary.


3. That's a nice picture of Will. And I think it was a lovely touch for him to pick up the dress and smile. It was a great moment.


4. Since Jack and Elizabeth seem to have so much in common, maybe they're related. Cousins, anyone?


5. I also want a chest like DJ's...it's so nifty.


6. Shallow moment: Norrington looks uber hot right there. He's so smart. I think what actually happens is that James picks up the letters, he notices the dirt, looks at the jar, and looks over at Jack. You can see him going, "Now why would he empty out the jar of dirt that's so important to him?"


James also notices that Jack has an oar, and that he'd been by the boat...I think James believes that Jack was going to screw everyone over. I know a lot of the scenes between Jack and James were cut, but if they'd been left in I think people would understand James' absolute disgust with Jack....which is why the scenes were cut, probably. Poor James.


But he's still hot.


7. I got nothing to say, except that Gibbs looks vaguely constipated. Poor man. I do love his character. *huggles Gibbs*


8. What more can I say? Nothing.


9. Yeah, Elizabeth has to crawl up those stairs. No wonder she clings onto Jack; she's liable to slide back down them if she's not careful.


10. I love this expression on Will's face. He just softens up so much when he sees how sad Elizabeth is. He's a good guy, and he deserves a happy ending too.


11. I want a hug from Gibbs! One more reason to be jealous of Liz.


12. I don't think Will is mad that Jack went down with the Pearl. He agreed to the plan to abandon the ship. Will is more than likely upset about Elizabeth kissing Jack, but he's covering all that hurt and anger up with the anger of not being able to save his dad.


13. Jack is funny when he screams.


Yep, that's all I have. I'm going to bed now.

Originally posted by pirate179
he so cute when he screams!!!

is there any time that Jack isn't cute

Jack is just so ....lovable...you know what's funny...when t and t created the character...and then Johnny brought him to life....do you think they ever imagine that we would refer to jack as sexy, cute, sensitve and In- love....

Jack... JAck... Jack... droolio

those pictures are very interesting...
the picture where Will presses the dress to himself interests me more... I think it was so sweet of him to do that, and i kinda feel sorry for him now about Sparrabeth pair-ups because of that lol..

screaming Jack... I love when he screams

I agree JaehSkywalker, I love that picture with Will and the dress. It's so romantic, the screencap is very good, willothewisp. The way he's closing his eyes, you know he'd like to put his entire face in the dress but he just escaped from Davy Jones and isn't in the room alone, and we all know how private Will is... but it gets the intense emotion across anyway.

Hm. Orlando Bloom just gained a bit of acting respect due to these screencaps...

Originally posted by siriuswriter
I agree JaehSkywalker, I love that picture with Will and the dress. It's so romantic, the screencap is very good, willothewisp. The way he's closing his eyes, you know he'd like to put his entire face in the dress but he just escaped from Davy Jones and isn't in the room alone, and we all know how private Will is... but it gets the intense emotion across anyway.

Hm. Orlando Bloom just gained a bit of acting respect due to these screencaps...

agreed... its full of love.. and emotion... that's sooo sweet...

As for the "He's learned she can take care of herself..."

Well we've seen him with his arm protectively around her the previous movie, and for the first ten minutes of this one. And then at the island where the chest is, he leaves HER to protect the chest to go off and sword fight!

I think it even increases his love for her - it's now a respect thing. Before, it was damsel in distress all the time, and now it's a mutual "all right you take care of you, and I'll take care of me, and maybe even you can take care of me sometimes, because you know I'll definitely be taking care of you." Wow. Much use of "taking care ofs..." But you get the picture.

In saying that, TnT have just made Will a smart man, and have made his love go WAY deep. Damn. As much fun as J/L is, I have to say that W/E seems to be the lasting relationship here.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
As for the "He's learned she can take care of herself..."

Well we've seen him with his arm protectively around her the previous movie, and for the first ten minutes of this one. And then at the island where the chest is, he leaves HER to protect the chest to go off and sword fight!

I think it even increases his love for her - it's now a respect thing. Before, it was damsel in distress all the time, and now it's a mutual "all right you take care of you, and I'll take care of me, and maybe even you can take care of me sometimes, because you know I'll definitely be taking care of you." Wow. Much use of "taking care ofs..." But you get the picture.

In saying that, TnT have just made Will a smart man, and have made his love go WAY deep. Damn. As much fun as J/L is, I have to say that W/E seems to be the lasting relationship here.


Perhaps....but which man recognized that streak in her first?

Gahh I'm afriad that I just got even closer to switching to the Willabeth ship pretty much from that dress picture. =\

Originally posted by Hambah
Gahh I'm afriad that I just got even closer to switching to the Willabeth ship pretty much from that dress picture. =\

yeah... is there a nuetral plank where I can stand on?

trailer and that thing helped a lot in confusing my mind even more..

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
yeah... is there a nuetral plank where I can stand on?

trailer and that thing helped a lot in confusing my mind even more..

Hahah yeah it makes me kinda sad...I used to be so strictly sparrabeth, but now...I just don't know.

Originally posted by Hambah
Hahah yeah it makes me kinda sad...I used to be so strictly sparrabeth, but now...I just don't know.

ditto.

I think that W/E is going to win out. But I can have fun with J/L in the meantime!

W/E is probably the canon pairing, J/E is the fun fanon pairing, like Draco/Hermione and you know, Sparrington.


Seriously though, I think Orlando catches a lot of flak for not being some great actor, and I really think he does a fine job in all his movies. I think he's best at comedy, but he has an expressive face and beautiful eyes that really do a lot of the acting for him. He's still growing and learning, and I believe he'll continue to improve.


Savvysparrow, does it matter who recognized the streak in her first? Will recognizes it and respects it just as much as Jack does. Probably moreso, since Will is the one who taught her to handle a sword (Innuendos aside. Or not. hehe).


I don't think the writers' comments about Will is "Oh, now he gets it half-way through the movie". He probably sort of figured that out during CotBP, and the comment here was just that now that Will knows she's out of Beckett's hands, he knows that she'll be fine on her own and that she's out looking for him, he can really start to plan to save his father and I'm sure he knows that she's either on her way to find Jack Sparrow or already with him.


One thing that I really find interesting here is that Will immediately knows what Elizabeth had done. He may not know the exact details of a step-by-step plan, but he can surmise almost instantly that she'd pretended to be one of the crew and had "abandoned" her post once she reached Tortuga. It's another one of those moments that defines the Will/Elizabeth relationship; they don't even have to use words. They just know what the other is thinking.


Well, usually. Will sort of misses the mark with the Kiss of Betrayal and Death, but then again, what was the poor man supposed to be thinking?

Beautifully put, Surreal, that's exactly what I was thinking, just not awake and intelligible enough to put it that way. W/E canon = R/Hr in Harry Potter shipperdom *sorry, is Harry Potter nerd so this helps me understand it * J/L "the fun ship" for fanfictions and such = H/Hr, D/Hr, pretty much everything else. S/Hr.... erm. Well. You get the picture. I think I'm getting less intelligible as I go along.

But I digress. Surreal, you've put it terrifically.

I think it's taken for granted that it was Will who taught her to fight. Now, in another reality if she had run off with Jack, would he have taught her to fight? I'm 100% sure he would have, but it was actually Will who taught her. He wanted her to be able to defend herself and be a part of something he very much enjoys doing. He probably saw she loved doing it too and that increased his attraction to her. I think his teaching her right there proves he doesn't want a damsel in distress. He wants the intelligent, brave woman Liz is.

I haven't converted yet, but like someone said, W/E may be the canon here.

Originally posted by Surreal_44


Savvysparrow, does it matter who recognized the streak in her first? Will recognizes it and respects it just as much as Jack does. Probably moreso, since Will is the one who taught her to handle a sword (Innuendos aside. Or not. hehe).

No, it doesn't really matter. I'm actually just playing devil's advocate here. This is my rather poor attempt to be the Surreal of the J/E side so to speak; as Jack would say: 'time and tide, luv'.


Well, usually. Will sort of misses the mark with the Kiss of Betrayal and Death, but then again, what was the poor man supposed to be thinking?


That his fiancee is not the type of woman who goes around throwing herself at men without some sort of purpose? His lack of faith in Elizabeth and their relationship is somewhat surprising, don't you think?

Well, he doesn't get to see everything. And she tells them that Jack chose to stay behind. He knows they were spending a lot of time together. Plus the fact that she doesn't tell him what happened furthers suspicion. It's a pretty logical train of thought for Will.

I actually agree with willo. I would probably be acting pretty similar to Will if I saw my fiancee(sp?) kissing a pirate. Yeah..he knows she's spent a lot of time with him, so I would be wondering like 'is it even the first kiss?'

And as more time passes, the more it must seem to Will that Elizabeth kissed Jack to say good-bye because she's in love with him. Granted, most of us are not in daily life-threatening situations, but just pretend that you are and your group of people are about to get eaten by say, a giant T-Rex ( I don't know why you'd be in this situation, but you are ).

You see your beloved fiance (for whom you have nearly died several times) necking with a pretty little red-head. Are you going to assume that he's doing it out of some unselfish, noble purpose, like chaining her up to use as a distraction for the T-Rex, or are you going to assume he's out looking for a last minute booty-call*?


Me...I would have kicked my beloved's feet out from under him and demanded an explanation, and then probably try to strangle him before he could say anything. I think Will is remarkabely restrained.


*Is booty-call the term to use nowadays, or am I showing my age again?



EDIT TO ADD: Savvy, sorry I misunderstood your post. Nice try...it isn't easy playing devil's advocate when you have your mind and heart set in one direction, so I appreciate the effort.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I think it's taken for granted that it was Will who taught her to fight. Now, in another reality if she had run off with Jack, would he have taught her to fight? I'm 100% sure he would have, but it was actually Will who taught her. He wanted her to be able to defend herself and be a part of something he very much enjoys doing. He probably saw she loved doing it too and that increased his attraction to her. I think his teaching her right there proves he doesn't want a damsel in distress. He wants the intelligent, brave woman Liz is.

I haven't converted yet, but like someone said, W/E may be the canon here.

What's going on here? Are we switching...Well, I'm still sailing with Sparrabeth....I still think the chemistry between them is what is way better....and just cus will is smelling the dress...does that make him more in-love with liz than Jack....Will has great chemistry with the dress....but does he have it with Liz?

Okay, ladies...since you all think Will looks so sweet and in love by hugging that dress...what about this man..a man who has been through hell and back, a man who is alone, except for his ship, a man who could have easily escaped and made it to land but came back....tell me what this looks like????

http://i7.tinypic.com/4703n0h.jpg

Originally posted by willofthewisp
http://i5.tinypic.com/3yrak93.jpg

This is the last one, and I think it's important. We've discussed how Will was busy thinking about his priorities first, about how much he wants the Pearl to save his dad. Then he looks over at Liz, and this is the expression he makes. He's willing to put his priorities aside for her, and I hate to say it, but he loves her, guys. I refuse to debate if Will and Jack both really love her because I think they both do and if you have doubts about Will, look at this picture.

Well, it could be he is using her....he's been knifing that table and thinking how he wishes that were Jack's heart...and he's thinking because of Jack's stupid deal with Davy he's lost the Pearl - the one means to getting back his father. Now, it appears that he may have indeed lost his bonny last to same certain Pirate....so, maybe his brain starts ticking and he's thinking "if I can get Elizabeth, use her vunerability when it comes to jack, to help me get to Jack, then i will get the Black Pearl and fullfill my promise to my father"...maybe he's just pretending to care about what Elizabeth wants so he can use her to get to jack, eh? Just a thought. Shoot me down Surreal, I'm okay with it today

and "he really loves her guys"...I never said Will didn't love Elizabeth, I just said that the love between them could be changing by the time we reach the end of the trilogy....I just feel if there is love developing between Jack and lIz...it's stronger and deeper...there is a thin line between love and hate..a line filled with passion! As the combo attack pirate pack says "is it love or hate between jack sparrow and elizabeth swann?".....I'm sorry I know it's just a toy...but hey, they are made by Disney...why would Disney sale a combo pack featuring Jack and Lizzie - to me they are the ultimate Pirate Couple - rather than Will and Elizabeth....Will is being sold as the Captain of the Flying Dutchman..in a pack by himself...hummm????

That's a different point of view for it for me, lovethemtigers. The moment I saw him knifing the table, I thought, "Oh dear he's going to carve out his heart."

But upon further examination... I dunno that was just the first impression of the "thunking" noise...

Originally posted by Surreal_44
A Granted, most of us are not in daily life-threatening situations, but just pretend that you are and your group of people are about to get eaten by say, a giant T-Rex ( I don't know why you'd be in this situation, but you are.)



Pretend?! I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me!


*Is booty-call the term to use nowadays, or am I showing my age again?

I think booty call is still used. I got one from a giant T-Rex just the other week.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
What's going on here? Are we switching...Well, I'm still sailing with Sparrabeth....I still think the chemistry between them is what is way better....and just cus will is smelling the dress...does that make him more in-love with liz than Jack....Will has great chemistry with the dress....but does he have it with Liz?

Okay, ladies...since you all think Will looks so sweet and in love by hugging that dress...what about this man..a man who has been through hell and back, a man who is alone, except for his ship, a man who could have easily escaped and made it to land but came back....tell me what this looks like????

http://i7.tinypic.com/4703n0h.jpg

Ahh I was scaring myself by unintentionally leaning towards Willabeth last night, but now I'm almost completely Sparrabeth. I'm too easily persuaded . But I think I've decided that I'm mostly a Sparrabeth person.

OI!! People no shippy wars. I'm really tired of it.

I read in the last pages about weather or not it's a cannon relationship or whatever.

NO SHIPPY WARS!

"and "he really loves her guys"...I never said Will didn't love Elizabeth, I just said that the love between them could be changing by the time we reach the end of the trilogy....I just feel if there is love developing between Jack and lIz...it's stronger and deeper...there is a thin line between love and hate..a line filled with passion! As the combo attack pirate pack says "is it love or hate between jack sparrow and elizabeth swann?".....I'm sorry I know it's just a toy...but hey, they are made by Disney...why would Disney sale a combo pack featuring Jack and Lizzie - to me they are the ultimate Pirate Couple - rather than Will and Elizabeth....Will is being sold as the Captain of the Flying Dutchman..in a pack by himself...hummm????"-------lovethemtigers

I'm not trying to convert myself or anyone else, lovethemtigers. I don't mean to give that impression. This thread is "stuff you may have missed." These are small, little touches that if you don't pay attention, you'd miss them. They aren't all that significant or give clues to how things are going to be, but they make it that much more enjoyable to watch.

There is no doubt in my mind Jack is in love with Liz by the end of DMC. Read my "mystery of the compass solved" thread if you don't believe me. I just like looking at willabeth evidence too, because if you never look at the other side's evidence, how can you understand them? True, I mostly captured "Will moments," but I figured we'd miss those more easily than we would miss Jack moments, which we usually catch and analyze. Really, this isn't a shipping thread. Everyone is welcome to find their own little details and put them in here.

Come on, mates. This isn't a shipper thread. We are just having some fun in noticing little things that are hidden a bit in the movie.

Like Tia's jar of eyeballs . Poor Ragetti. What if Tia had something to do with it?

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/7/3/31/f_VTS01128300m_2ab7a80.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/2vxlyrc.jpg

Okay, now time for the first half of the movie. I like this reaction shot here when Beckett doesn't give Jack's title. Notice he looks at Liz even though both said "captain."


http://i11.tinypic.com/3yhc9cg.jpg

Just in case you're in a trivia contest, you know what time the clock was showing!

http://i11.tinypic.com/33dfp1e.jpg

This is Liz's reaction to "fate intervenes." It's a bit stoic, but I'm sure we can analyze it. I think it really jarred her there.

http://i3.tinypic.com/48mgxdz.jpg

Hee hee, Jack is really freaked out by Tia here.

The following are Will-is-turned-on pics. We speak of Liz's unfaithfulness, but what about Will's? I think he needed a cold shower after this.

http://i7.tinypic.com/4hlgt94.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2drux53.jpg

This next one is Jack's reaction to being asked why the compass won't work for him. Thrown for a loop, he seems.

http://i12.tinypic.com/2gskj1i.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/4ghbrko.jpg

Will is asking here what vexes all men. Still looks pretty into her, I think. If you keep watching this scene, as the Davy story goes on, he gets more and more upset with the story, very impatiently and rudely asking "What exactly did he put in the chest," in a kind of get on with it tone. Maybe he recognizes parallels in his own life?

Yay Willo!

You brought up the clock picture! I actually noticed it's prominence in that scene too. Which again, recalls the theme of time, or a lack there of. It's interesting that what applies to Jack also applies to Will. Beckett says as much, he too has to find his place in the new world, and essentially with the clock in the foreground, it's the same as Bootstrap saying to Jack: Your time's run out.

Also, it's a fairly modern clock that's being built, an emblem of progress, a theme that comes up in the draft scripts of AWE.

About the Will's being seduced pictures. When we look at Tia Dalma, we have to remember that not only is she a woman, but her character is Calypso, the symbol of the sea. This may be the first scene in which we see the sea (ha!) calling to him. The sea is essentially seducing him like it does all men in some senses.

And I also notted that Beckett seems to be pushing Elizabeth's interest in Jack pretty hard. Why, I wonder? He has knowledge of it somehow beyond powers of observation. It may be that having had dealings with Jack in the past before he turned Pirate, he may recognize the same qualities. But it is somewhat suspicious....

Ok Guys i noticed 2 things: 1st.. it may or may not be much but in this pic there is a picture of a globe (which i've circled)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/2dl5b292.jpg

and then there is a globe in this Elizabeth Swan Action Figure

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/LizS.jpg

could it mean anything? could it be the same globe?

and 2nd this Liz action figure is called:

Pirates Of The Carribean 3: Pirate King Elizabeth Swan with Glowing Brethern Court Globe & Sword

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/LizS2.jpg

Why would they call her PIRATE KING....do they think that she is a man? Does she pose as a MAN? I mean she has posed as man, would she do it again?...was that a subtle intro to something to come in AWE?..Maybe that explains her Wardrobe...so manly! also WAS SAO the King of the Bretheren and since he passed it to her does that make her KING? What do u ladies think?

I don't see anything wrong with Will getting turned on by Tia, he is human...it would only be wrong if he acted on his feelings like Liz did.

And that's very interesting about the globe since we've been under the impression that Will is never at the Brethren Meeting. Perhaps Pirate King is a unisex term like some actresses that refer to themselves as an actor.

The package was very interesting on that one as well because it says that in order to be the pirate king, the globe must glow either when you remove your sword or stick it it...I can't remember which but I like this version better than the one I heard where they write ballots.

I think the story of Davy Jones upsets Will because it reminds him of what happened between himself, Elizabeth and James. He has no reason to suspect that Elizabeth is unfaithful to him (especially since it hasn't happened at this point. ). Also, if you look at the pictures, he seems almost mesmerized. Perhaps Tia was actually trying to seduce him, and he's shaking it off.


As for Beckett and Elizabeth, Terry answered this on wordplayer. Basically, Beckett is trying to find out how much Elizabeth likes Jack. He wants to see what her reactions are, to see how he can use her against Jack or to serve his purpose.


He lets Elizabeth go, and he doesn't call the guards down on her. He wants her to go looking for that chest too. Plus letting her go gives him even more leverage on Gov. Swann. I love Beckett. He's such an evil bastard.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
and 2nd this Liz action figure is called:

Pirates Of The Carribean 3: Pirate King Elizabeth Swan with Glowing Brethern Court Globe & Sword

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/LizS2.jpg

Why would they call her PIRATE KING....do they think that she is a man? Does she pose as a MAN? I mean she has posed as man, would she do it again?...was that a subtle intro to something to come in AWE?..Maybe that explains her Wardrobe...so manly! also WAS SAO the King of the Bretheren and since he passed it to her does that make her KING? What do u ladies think?


It's possible; she's in a room filled with blood thirsty pirates. It may be to her advantage to pretend as though she is a man. Also, it might lend her voice more credibility, given the era.

However, that doesn't necessarily fly because isn't one of the Pirate Lords in fact a woman. I think the list that's posted on the spoilers thread lists one woman among the group. It's something like Mistress Chang...

Originally posted by willofthewisp


http://i7.tinypic.com/4hlgt94.jpg

Hmm... wonder where he's looking.





It looks as if he's about to purr...

Good points all, willo.

he is intrigued by her!^^ he does look like purring, rawr get her tiger lol jk anyways you can kinda see they were about to kiss but Jack interupted.

a kiss interupted or a kiss interupted, i think i will go with the firts one a kiss interupted. So boo yeah!! if Jack wasn't there we my of seen a kiss then Elizabeth wouldn't lose Wills trust he would lose hers. geeze both would of kissed the wrong person well Elizabeth she kissed the right but if ur williabeth she kissed the wrong and Will he almost kissed Tia. shame on you William Turner!!

"I don't see anything wrong with Will getting turned on by Tia, he is human...it would only be wrong if he acted on his feelings like Liz did."-----ericadawn

There is nothing offhand that is wrong about being attracted to another person when you're with someone else. However, it is bad if you start to think about them more than the one you're with. I'm not saying Will is falling in love with Tia by any means. No way. But it does open the door that Will is capable of being seduced/maybe even the seducer as much as Liz is.

But he did seem like he was going to kiss her-tia- That is still wrong.

even though Will could be attracted to Tia, i think Elizabeth has it harder for her

Yeah, I agree with that. Will and crew say goodbye to her and he figures he'll never have to bother with her again (provided he's even thinking about her, which I don't think he is). She's out of sight, out of mind. Liz has it harder because she's kind of stuck with Jack. She has to go with him to get the chest so he's always around.

Just a small question. The clock says 10:10, so that means the wedding was the day before, right? And Will spent the night in jail? That's a really, freakishly early wedding if that's not the case.

i don't know maybe it was the same day so it could be an early wedding, but i wonder why so early? Because wasn't liz in jail too.

So just to get the timeline straight, Will and Liz are arrested and spend the night in jail cells. At the same time, Jack is busting out of prison in a coffin. The next morning is when Will is summoned to the office. That would make sense.

Since we're on the subject of stuff we may have missed, are there any more bird references? We have Sparrow/Swann of course and William Turner was a famous ornithologist, but are there any references to birds we may not be picking up on?

I don't mean to change the subject about the birds, willo. I just want something to say about the spending the night in jail.

Um, I suppose Will and Liz spent the night at Jail. But were they sepperated?

Elizabeth spended two days and one night in jail. Because when Gov. Swann got Elizabeth out, it was already night time.

I don't know if the clock is showing the proper time. That might be some sort "inside" thing that has some signifigance to the producer or director, although I think it is indeed possible that Will and Elizabeth spent the night in jail. It would er...'soften' them up so to speak for Beckett.

Ted pointed out on KTTC that Turner is a play on the word "tern", which are water birds. They're really incredible. They're called "sea swallows", and they dive like straight into the water to get fish.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So just to get the timeline straight, Will and Liz are arrested and spend the night in jail cells. At the same time, Jack is busting out of prison in a coffin. The next morning is when Will is summoned to the office. That would make sense.

Since we're on the subject of stuff we may have missed, are there any more bird references? We have Sparrow/Swann of course and William Turner was a famous ornithologist, but are there any references to birds we may not be picking up on?


Barbossa's name has an interesting history.

Captain Barbossa's first name was revealed in a director's commentary on the DVD. His last name is both a pun on the Spanish/Portuguese surname "Barbosa" and is based on Barbarossa, the dreaded pirate also known as Redbeard.

This is all very interesting. About the names.

Hector Barbossa sounds spanish to me .

Liz in jail: Arrested, spends night (probably in separate cell from Will). Next day says goodbye to Will, that night is taken out by her dad. Agreed?

Birds, birds, birds. If they made such blatant references to them in the three main characters' names, I would just think there would be more besides Mr. Cotton's parrot.

The only bird or similar bird names I know are Jack Sparrow, Elizabeth Swann, and dear William Turner.

Though, Sparrow is not his real last name, I think.

Hmmm as always my posts got ignored...I actually think i discovered something....but oh well...guess Not!!

What! What is it!?

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Hmmm as always my posts got ignored...I actually think i discovered something....but oh well...guess Not!!


Wait, wait wait, is this about the glowing pirate globe? What do you know?

yes it is about the Pirate Globe....but most importantly why they call LIZ a PIRATE KING!!....i mean seriously i know that means something i just need help putting 2 and 2 together!!!!

You're certain that it says King?

Ok, well there are some reasonable explanations. For starters, it's possible that Elizabeth goes into the Betheren meeting and is mistaken as a boy. She may not decide to correct them because it gives her voice more status to be a male than it does to be a female. Also, it's probably safer for her not to go in as a wench because let's face it, pretty girl in a room of cut throat pirates, not exactly a good combination.

The only thing I have trouble with is that there is supposedly another woman pirate member of the Betheren, but it may be that her role is somewhat cut down because she is in fact a woman.

Also, Elizabeth, being the forward thinking woman that she is, may not want her stature as a member of the Bethern to be demoted to the status of Queen. Even though, Queens were more of the powerhouses behind the monarchy than the kings were during the time period.

The most logical explanation that I can come up with is because she is an unmarried, pretty woman, it does her more good to pretend to be a man. Mistress Cheng actually might be married, which would be why it is that she's allowed as a member of the council. Married and widowed women were always allowed more freedom during that era than unmarried women. So they assume because of her costume and her hat that she is a pirate King and she doesn't correct them.

The question is, we know there are Pirate Lords, but does Elizabeth's being a King mean that she has dominion over all of them. That would be an interesting twist!

There is another pirate lady who actually has one of the coins. I forgot her name.

Mistress Cheng is her name. I'd be interested to see what her role is in the film. I'll bet my bottom dollar that she's married and that is the reason why it is that Elizabeth decides to remain disguised as a man. It's not a forced marriage thing, it's just more along the guidelines of the period. Unmarried women were not as highly respected. Do we have screen captures of the Bethern scenes from the trailer?

It may simply be that the pirates recognize what an incredible leader and pirate she is. They may decide that queen doesn't suit her personality.

All clocks and watches are always 10:10...go on, look! Magazine advertisements, billboards movie posters, films, televisions...unless the time is specific to the plot, it is always 10:10 especially when it's a watch ad.

I don't know if it shows off the hands better or what.

i never noticed that...how weird

ya it's like when u watch in the tv shows and movies everytime someone hangs up a phone they never say GOODBYE!!! they always just hang up....but they dont say goodbye! (almost never anyway cause there is always an exception!)

LMAO You're right. Both are--Erica and Diva lool.

"Mistress Cheng is her name. I'd be interested to see what her role is in the film. I'll bet my bottom dollar that she's married and that is the reason why it is that Elizabeth decides to remain disguised as a man. It's not a forced marriage thing, it's just more along the guidelines of the period. Unmarried women were not as highly respected. Do we have screen captures of the Bethern scenes from the trailer?"------sorry, can't remember who.


First, it is so cool there's another woman pirate running around. If you read Under the Black Flag by David Cordingly, I think we'll learn who this person is based off of.

"Mrs. Cheng, whose fleets of junks ruled the South China Seas in the early years of the nineteenth century..."

She was married to a great pirate and when he died, she took command and appointed allies as her subordinates. She married one of them named Chang Pao. Their Pirate Code, according to the book, was even worse than the Pirate Code in the Caribbean. She executed those who disobeyed an order and cut the ears off deserters. If a female prisoner decided to have sex with a pirate, the male pirate was beheaded and the prisoner was thrown overboard with weights tied to her legs. The Chinese government realized how bad piracy was getting and offered amnesty to pirates that turned themselves in and stopped. Mrs. Cheng went to the governor of Canton and negotiated that her ships could keep their plunder and that her husband Cang Pao be given the rank of lieutenant in the navy. She opened a gambling house and was a very rich woman that led a legitimate life until she died in 1822.

This character is going to kick ass. Also, if you watch the trailer, there is a woman that appears with Sao Feng right around the 2:00 mark when Chow Yun Fat's name is on the screen. Maybe that's her.

Has anyone notice a similarity here?

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/4/1/f_VTS01106000m_f23bb2e.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8655/jaylenokv0.jpg

I think Jay Leno has an English ancestor lol.

LMAO!

http://www.royalhandmaidensociety.org/images/galleries/decoyqueen/sidebysideshot.jpg

I think Elizabeth has a relative in a galaxy far, far away.

LMAO

awwe. Keira was really cute.

http://photos.bravenet.com/103/632/597/1/BCA33FC940.jpg

Will has a slightly uglier relative in Pride and Prejudice England.

Hey, Surreal said that when Norrie swabs the deck of the Pearl, he's using his wig. Anyone want to investigate this one? I think there's probably a lot of background stuff happening whenever the action's on the Pearl.

I'll go check on it. *plays mission impossible theme*

She also asked if someone was watching the Curiosity scene, as if Norrington or someone was spying on them. Interesting? Yes. Kind of hot? Yes. Excuse to watch Curiosity again? Yes. Just be careful to not get so absorbed you stop paying attention to the background.

LOL I won't I'm going to check on it.

OK here's the wig.

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/4/2/f_VTS01146600m_241ad11.jpg

Originally posted by Minie Mina
OK here's the wig.

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/4/2/f_VTS01146600m_241ad11.jpg

so, Norrington was using the nasty wig to clean the deck of the Pearl...

Here is Jack's expression as he faces the Kracken and his death....Jack is very brave here.....I wonder how he gets all that slime off of him...cuz when we next see him in AWE the slime is gone....I guess he got rinsed off in the ocean...



http://i11.tinypic.com/2nq5ls6.jpg


http://i5.tinypic.com/30vesz6.jpg

^^^He looks alot more Stoic in the second picture....just like he did sailing into Port Royal..the look of a man who's had time to think about things and now realizes he was betrayed....a man with a mission....

I love the picture Of Jack knocking the crap out of Davy Jones during their sword fight...gosh, Jack is really sexy fighting, is he not? Anyways, interestingly they show this shot just after we see the Will proposal to Elizabeth...

http://i11.tinypic.com/2hz38kk.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/2j5199k.jpg

I think I found Norrie!

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/4/2/f_VTS01152300m_d8f312c.jpg

Originally posted by Minie Mina
http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/7/3/31/f_VTS01128300m_2ab7a80.jpg

I love how Ragetti looks at those Eyeballs...he is soo freaked out by Tia's cabin..it's funny how he is trying to redeem himself....the dicotomy of good and evil!..."nothing bad, I hope"....

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/4/2/f_VTS01152300m_89cfb95.jpg

Originally posted by Minie Mina
Come on, mates. This isn't a shipper thread. We are just having some fun in noticing little things that are hidden a bit in the movie.

Like Tia's jar of eyeballs . Poor Ragetti. What if Tia had something to do with it?

I'm sorry, Mina, I didn't mean to ship...I just can't help myself..I get kind of worried when Sparrabether's sound like they are being persuaded over to the Willabeth side....really sorry....

I'll try to look for some fun and interesting things we may have overlooked in the movies....

I'm excited...last night on the USA channel...guess what was on???
Pirates of the Caribbean...the Curse of the Black Pearl....you would have thought I'd never seen that movie before the way I was so into it....

after watching that movie for the 1,000 th or so time...I noticed something new....when the "good guys" are on the Interceptor and they load their cannons with anything and everything...and they get all the knifes and forks and stuff...it's funny when Marty grabs Gibbs flask from his and stuff's it in the cannon and he gets that same look he has on DMC when Will says "load the rum"...."eh, load the rum"....and then it's funny when Jack flys over on the rope from the Pearl to the Interceptor he hands it back to Gibbs and says "Bloody Empty"..I had always wondered how Jack had that flask..and now I know...Marty put it in a cannon and Jack must have found it on the Pearl and picked it up to return it to Gibbs.....aww Jack..he's a good friend to Gibbs...the toys at Target even says that "Mr. Gibbs...always loyal to jack Sparrow, except when his own life is at stake"...that's funny, isn't it?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
The following are Will-is-turned-on pics. We speak of Liz's unfaithfulness, but what about Will's? I think he needed a cold shower after this.

http://i7.tinypic.com/4hlgt94.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2drux53.jpg

This next one is Jack's reaction to being asked why the compass won't work for him. Thrown for a loop, he seems.

http://i12.tinypic.com/2gskj1i.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/4ghbrko.jpg

Will is asking here what vexes all men. Still looks pretty into her, I think. If you keep watching this scene, as the Davy story goes on, he gets more and more upset with the story, very impatiently and rudely asking "What exactly did he put in the chest," in a kind of get on with it tone. Maybe he recognizes parallels in his own life?

I love all these screen caps from Tia's cabin...yes, Will looks very attracted to Tia in these pictures...he seems very intrigued..interesting....

I love the picture of Jack when Tia mentions his compass not working..he looks guilty...like he's afraid she knows exactly why his compass isn't working and that Will might fight out....
will defintely looks suspicious of Jack in that sequence...he is trying to figure out just what it could be that jack wants but is loathed to claim as his own.....

LOL. I love Gibbs expression after Will instructs to load the rum. And then Gibbs goes: "AYE! The Rum too!"

And he gives this cry baby face lol.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Ok Guys i noticed 2 things: 1st.. it may or may not be much but in this pic there is a picture of a globe (which i've circled)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/2dl5b292.jpg

and then there is a globe in this Elizabeth Swan Action Figure

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/LizS.jpg

could it mean anything? could it be the same globe?

Diva, good find....I wonder why Tia has that in her cabin..I wonder what else is in Tia's cabin that we could be overlooking...so far we discoverd the boots on the bed, the way Jack the Monkey runs straight to them, the eyeballs in a jar, the locked on the table, Jack picks up Barbossa's ring...what else????

I so saw that toy of Elizabeth and that Brethren Globe...but why do they have her with the globe...is that the thing she must look over when she is on the island, her special assignment, but why???

I know these are all reat investigations!

lovethemtigers, have you seen the pic I posted about Norrie being in the curiosity scene. Surreal was the one who noticed it.

No, I haven't seen that pic...where is it...I always wondered if somehow he witnessed that conversation? Now that's interesting, very interesting...

This takes place as Barbossa, Liz and Jack have taken that Stoic walk on the beach toward Beckett and Will....why does Barbossa stike Jack..what is happening? Maybe this is when Barbossa trades Jack for Will, cuz then we see Will standing with Barbossa and Liz?



http://i10.tinypic.com/2uj11kn.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/2j1tq2o.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/2rmwlg2.jpg

Jack supposedly betrayed the location of Shipwreck Cove to Beckett, so I suspect that Barbossa pulls out his sword on Jack for that very reason.

Jack is going to become very selfish in this movie. This will be interesting.

"I think I found Norrie!"---chiki

Aaaauuuggghhhh! There's a ghost on the Pearl. It's really a little creepy if you think about it. The majority of us like to think of Curiosity as a very private moment between Jack and Liz but they're actually surrounded by people on the deck of a ship and someone is WATCHING them? Scary. I bet it's Norrie, too, for two reasons:
1. He's probably not completely over Liz (although I'm thinking he's not pining away for her) so he's probably a little bitter
2. They might be talking about the chest for all James knows, standing that far away.

Well, have you ever notice that everytime they flirt, they are in front of people?

1) Persuade Me

2) Curiosity

In AWE

3) "It would have never worked out between us."

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/4/2/f_VTS01152300m_89cfb95.jpg

Look at the white swishy thing across the "ghost's" chest. That's James, all right. He's watching/listening this whole thing.

Yes, I have noticed they're not afraid to flirt in public. However, are they afraid to be alone with each other? Hmmm.

Do you guys think that IS Norrington watching that scene? It's all blurry, but it seems like the right shape if you were going to make Norrington a blob, right?


Or maybe I'm just obssessed.


Also, poor Norrington and his wig, Sophie (fanon name for the wig. . According to the longer script for DMC that TnT released on Wordplayer, Jack makes Norrington clean the deck of the Pearl with his wig:

Oh, my! I love it

I wish they had left that scene in, but it would have made Jack less likeable, so that's probably why it was cut. There's such snark between those two that I wish they had worked more of it into the film.

Still, I would've love to see that. But yeah, it would have hurt Jack's character.

that and "No fraternizing with the help, love."

lol, where does that come from?

What's that? Does Liz try to talk to James or something?

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Diva, good find....I wonder why Tia has that in her cabin..I wonder what else is in Tia's cabin that we could be overlooking...so far we discoverd the boots on the bed, the way Jack the Monkey runs straight to them, the eyeballs in a jar, the locked on the table, Jack picks up Barbossa's ring...what else????

I so saw that toy of Elizabeth and that Brethren Globe...but why do they have her with the globe...is that the thing she must look over when she is on the island, her special assignment, but why???


Yes but i am afraid that that Pic of Will and the globe is not in Tia Dahlma's Hut....it's in Davy Jones room...when will goes to retrieve the key, that pic is taken as he's tip toeing towards Davy!! adds an interesting clue doesnt it...why does davy have the globe?

And the boots on the bed in tia's hut, those were Barbossa's, thats why the Monkey went straight to him!

Yes, on the Isla Cruces:





Another scene where Jack is not-so-nice, so I assume that is one of the reasons it is cut. It's a shame, because it gives back-story on the island and it explains why Jones would choose this place to begin with. Also, the exchange between James and Elizabeth is nice, and then of course, the snark between Jack and James.


Ah well...editors. Hopefully we'll get to see that scene someday in a special edition dvd. I did see the "Better mad with the rest of the world than sane alone" line in a video about the filming of the movie. I have to tell you, Jack Davenport's delivery of that line was delicious and heart-breaking.


So what other little details are there?

The explanation could have stayed in there, just cut out the bottom of the scene if they were worried about making Jack look like an ass. In the longboat, notice Jack's not talking to any of them anyway, he's got the kraken on his mind. It's an interesting explanaton of Isla de Cruces. Makes you wonder why Davy would have married Tia there...fate intervening.

I had a question earlier and I know Surreal's going to hate me for taking Norrie out of the conversation (I have a way to include him!) but someone pointed out that Jack and Liz flirt in public. I asked if that means if they're afraid to be alone together. They don't really get a chance to in this movie, and the last time Jack was alone with her, she got him wasted, destroyed his rum, and turned him over to the navy...but subconsciously, do you think they hang around other people so they don't put themselves in that situation?

And now to include the ever fabulous James Norrington.

Why does he feel the need to spy on them? If they don't care if other people are around, why can't he just butt in? He's not technically obligated to serve Jack so it's not like that simple butting in would be a mutiny.

Liz: You're going to want to know what it tastes like.

(Jack is about to respond . James' head pops in between them)

James: Whatcha guys doing?

Jack: Don't you have a deck to be swabbing with your wig?

James: I thought I'd come over and say hi.

Liz: Hi

Jack: Hi.

James: I love the sea, don't you guys? It's so pretty and blue...

Haha! Sorry to take James off a bit...

On the DMC comic, in the persuade me scene, Elizabeth was in Jack's cabin alone.

Ooh, I don't think she would have done that at that moment unless he was going to leave, like give it up for her to sleep in since she joins the ship at night. But that's interesting.

And adding back James into the subject, he was outside listening the whole time. Jack and Elizabeth was alone during the persuade me, James was right outside listening. In the comic it said "Norrington assumed that Liz will slap Jack for saying such thing, but was surprised and was something different about it." When she got out looking frustrated, James appeared and said the same line in DMC.

Oh and Jack was holding her when he said "persuade me."

I have the comic, it's in spanish though.

This comic sounds more and more interesting. Do you have a scanner? Maybe there is a way for us to see some pictures just for entertainment. I'd like to see what it looks like.

ok i dont know where to get comics....so can some please tell me where i can get the POTC comics?

It's in spanish. You guys don't mind?

no i think Pictures will speak louder than words in this case...although i can read spanish!

There a bit more details in the speculation and spoilers thread. I don't wanna talk about this subject in two threads. So shall we discuss it there or here?

which one is the speculation and spoilers thread?

The one savvysparrow made, it says putting it all together. Sorry, my fault. It doesn't say speculations and spoilers.

lol...got cha!

Chiki, we won't mind if it's in Spanish. You can translate and I understand a little. Like someone said, we want pictures.

I believe this is what savvysparrow was talking about:


http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/7/4/2/f_VTS01146600m_d86eefc.jpg

Thanks. That's pretty obvious, yet we don't catch it.

Well, it's a pretty quick moment. But that's what a lot of the film is about. Quick moments that unless you're paying attention, you won't necessarily catch unless you've got eagle eyes, or you've seen the movie a million and half times.

Elizabeth catches that he grabs his arm, I think but before she can ask about it, he distracts her with his teasing.

wait..what! I'm gonna take pics. I'll be back *terminator voice*

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/7/4/3/f_VTS01146600m_3b21fb2.jpg

*coughcough* ssexxi*coughcough*

(Gibbs and Liz look at Jack strangely)

Gibbs: What's wrong?

Jack (covering): Just stretching the old arms. Go back to talking about impending doom.

Gibbs: Yes, well, as I was saying, this is bad for every mother's son who calls himself pirate.

Liz: How did you do that?

Gibbs: Do what?

Liz: Remember everything you said as if it were a line?

(Jack winces again and clutches his brand)

Liz: Do you have some kind of problem?

Jack: (whispers) Fourth wall.

Liz: What?

Jack (whispers louder) Fourth wall!

Liz: Oh. (looks at camera) Never mind. So...there's a chest to be found.

Gibbs: Aye. We find the chest, we unlock it, and we go from there.

Jack: We already know what's inside, too.

Liz: What's inside?

(Jack starts clutching his brand)

Gibbs: Will you stop that?

Jack: Sorry. I like to cause distractions when I feel pestered or bothered or otherwise inconvenienced by the nature of our talk.

Gibbs: What?

Jack: Why don't you coax some more wind out of these sails?

Gibbs: Good idea (buttles off)

Jack: Now, shall we continue?

Liz: Oh, you mean where I call you out on your attraction to me?

Jack: That very scene.

Liz: Shouldn't you have a brand to be holding?

yep. I think we've just about uncovered every mystery, analyzed every theory and torn apart every scene involving Jack and Lizzie from top to botton. I can't think of anything else to uncover, analyze or even conjure up for that matter. I'm all pirated-out when it comes to analyzing, etc...but I'm not tired of looking at Johnny, Jack and Elizabeth....I could watch the scenes of them over and over and over....and look at the screencaps, etc...I'm getting really nervous about April 10th and what the novelization will reveal to us.....maybe i should cut myself off and never come here again and just wait until may and be left in the dark, just as I was for DMC..............but not gonna happen, I can't stay away, this place is like a bad drug addiction..I just can't seem to leave it alone...I've tried, I even took about a month's break last november and december...and then somehow I go hooked again when i decided to check in just after the new year and see what was abuzz.....

We should make a pact then not to read the book. That way we can visit the forum all we want but we'll be surprised for the movie. You guys don't want to read some half-ass novelization and miss out on all the visuals do you? Plus, books leave out film twists. Ever seen the new Planet of the Apes? The book ends at a different place than the movie, which is smart. I think this thread proves nothing beats actually watching and soaking it all in.

i know....I just can't get why they would release the novelization this far in advance of the movie....especially a movie they have kept under such tight raps, a movie that it took forever to reveal the trailer and a movie they decided was so kick-ass it had to have a world-wide release date....so maybe the novel won't reveal anything, afteralll...

That's what I'm thinking. I've read novelizations of movies and they're never as good as the actual movie.

True. Though, I haven't read the novels from POTC.

Okay, I have a request for someone to look for. We've concluded that Norrington is spying on Jack and Liz during Curiosity, so is he spying on anyone any other time? I know he overhears the letters of mark being talked about, but is he in the background at any time he shouldn't be? Makes me wonder.

Hmm...The only time I can think of is when Jack is explaining about the compass--well, he wasn't really spying.

The Persuade me scene

And the Curiosity scene.

I don't think James is technically spying at any of those times. I think he just happens to be there, and he watches/listens because it's human nature.