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Anakin Skywalker, Count Dooku and Mace Windu versus Yoda, Sidious and Obi-Wan Kenobi, all from their ROTS appearance. The fight takes place in Geonosis Arena and it is a Lightsaber match ONLY.
Which team wins?

2nd team, imho.

team 1. Anakin takes OB1, Windu takes on Sidious, Dooku fights Yoda. OB1 would probably lose first, then Anakin could help kill another one then pwn the one who's left.

I don't think a 3 on 3 would be quite that simple. I doubt each combatant will just find an opponent, and stick to them until one of them dies, it's much more likely that opponents would constantly be switched around, and teamwork would be a much bigger factor. Nobody can really predict exactly how the fight would go down, but I really do doubt it'd be that simple.

Sidous and Yoda on one team thats a deadly combo right there than again so is Anakin and Mace.

Team two takes this. Regardless of what anyone says, Obi-wan beat Anakin once and there is no reason to believe that he can't do it again. With Anakin it's the simple trade off that if he is using the DS he can't think strait and when he's not Obi-wan is superior through sheer skill. Obi-wan takes Anakin.

Then you have Yoda. He can take anyone here in a lightsaber fight and will probably go after Mace, who is the next most dangerous opponent here. Yoda takes him after a long, hard fight.

Finally, Sidious holds off Dooku for long enough to get help. I don't think Sidious could take Dooku in a one on one fight without use of Force Powers, which this fight states he can't use. However, he will have backup with plenty of time to spare from Obi-wan and Yoda. Dooku goes down. Team two takes the cup.

There are too many factors to decide...but team 2 wins. Due to Yoda & Sidious...><

WTF? Right after saying there are too many factors to decide you go ahead and decide? LOL.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Regardless of what anyone says, Obi-wan beat Anakin once and there is no reason to believe that he can't do it again.

Actually, there is, Glentract. Simply because you are so naive as to not even see them doesn't mean they're nonexistent.

For one, it's a completely different setting. Obi-Wan's plan to combat Anakin had been to give ground, and to distract him, so as he didn't come full force. "Anything to distract him; anything to slow him down", I believe that's exactly what the RotS novelization says (and indeed, it does).

Now, when in the arena floor on Geonosis, there's virtually nowhere to run, unless you go up into the stadiums, which wouldn't be nearly as dangerous, or hindering as the type of things Obi-Wan had done on Mustafar were (i.e. lava skating, platform jumping, rope fighting). It's fairly clear that none of the tactics Obi-Wan were using could be put into effect here. And giving ground as he had to do wouldn't be nearly as effective, if at all. Which is a point that detracts from your statement that 'there's no reason to believe he can't do it again', seeing as the environment alone took up a gigantic percentage in Obi-Wan's victory.

Secondly, to add to that point, Anakin had seemingly the upper hand in that fight before they had delved into their whole ridiculous escapade. His melee attacks were far more efficacious than Obi-Wan's, he had him in the dragon sleeper for some time, which had Kenobi feeling the bones in his forearms bending, and his kicks were potent and consistent. Compared to Kenobi, who only got one good trip in.

Given the setting, there's definitely reason to suspect the outcome won't be the same.



Bullshit, Glentract. Anakin, no matter light side or dark, is always superior to Obi-Wan in dueling prowess. You're basing this off what, exactly? That he beat him? Right, because he really did defeat him in a straightforward, no games duel. Perhaps if he had, you'd have a point, but he didn't - so you don't.

Obi-Wan is only superior in tactically thinking over Vader, hence why he won. And there's nothing to indicate Anakin's ability with a blade decreased since the opening duel of RotS. Obi-Wan had intimate, firsthand knowledge of Anakin, which would be why he lasted far longer than Count Dooku, and used the terrain to his advantage, which like previously mentioned, there's not much benefits the setting gives in this scenario.



Vice versa, rather.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
WTF? Right after saying there are too many factors to decide you go ahead and decide? LOL. Yes, there are many things to decide, but at last the 2nd team would more likely to win.

Well by using the uber logic in here, Mace beat Sidious once so there's no reason why he cant do it again. And he beat him in about the same amount of time that Dooku held off Yoda in AOTC, so if he takes out Sidious he can help Dooku. Or if in this setting, Anakin takes OB1 more quickly that OB1 beat him in ROTS, then he could help one of the other two. The way i see it, Yoda ends up getting double teamed and eventually beaten, not pwned at all, just beaten.

Advent and Darth Subjekt are the only people here who think Team 1 would win??? Well they would. Anakin has too much raw fighting ability than Obi-Wan can handle. Mace dominated Sidious without using the force at all. And Dooku would be able to hold off long enough for Anakin and/or Mace to come in and vanquish Yoda.

Final Score:
Team1: 3
Team2: 0

Originally posted by Crosshair
Advent and Darth Subjekt are the only people here who think Team 1 would win??? Well, I think Count Makashi also think Team 1 would win

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well by using the uber logic in here, Mace beat Sidious once so there's no reason why he cant do it again. And he beat him in about the same amount of time that Dooku held off Yoda in AOTC, so if he takes out Sidious he can help Dooku. Or if in this setting, Anakin takes OB1 more quickly that OB1 beat him in ROTS, then he could help one of the other two. The way i see it, Yoda ends up getting double teamed and eventually beaten, not pwned at all, just beaten.
If the fight goes this way: Yoda vs Mace, Sisious vs Dooku, Obiwan vs Anakin, then team 2 has a higher chance to win...

Yoda goes for Dooku, Sidious and Mace start to fight and Anakin and Obi-Wan go at it. In the flat ground of the Geonosis arena Anakin would beat Kenobi, but only after a long duel. But Kenobi may have a chance if he jumps into the "bleachers". Either way that would be a close duel, though I'd give Anakin the slight edge since he's stronger than Kenobi and only lost before because he made a mistake.

Mace and Sidious lasts a while - Mace evetually disarms Sidious and knocks him on his back, but then Sidious defends himself with the Force.

Dooku goes down first. Then Yoda rushes over to help Sidious. Together they pwn Mace.

Then, they go help Kenobi and together the trio wtf pwn Anakin. If Kenobi's already dead, then they still take Anakin.

So Kenobi/Sidious/Yoda win.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yoda goes for Dooku, Sidious and Mace start to fight and Anakin and Obi-Wan go at it. In the flat ground of the Geonosis arena Anakin would beat Kenobi, but only after a long duel. But Kenobi may have a chance if he jumps into the "bleachers". Either way that would be a close duel, though I'd give Anakin the slight edge since he's stronger than Kenobi and only lost before because he made a mistake.

Mace and Sidious lasts a while - Mace evetually disarms Sidious and knocks him on his back, but then Sidious defends himself with the Force.

Dooku goes down first. Then Yoda rushes over to help Sidious. Together they pwn Mace.

Then, they go help Kenobi and together the trio wtf pwn Anakin. If Kenobi's already dead, then they still take Anakin.

So Kenobi/Sidious/Yoda win. Agree. Dooku is likely to be the first to go down. Once he go down, it will become a 3 vs 2 fight. So team 2 wins.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Mace and Sidious lasts a while - Mace evetually disarms Sidious and knocks him on his back, but then Sidious defends himself with the Force.

If Mace disarms Sidious as in your supposed scenario, then he's dead. Clearly you have a hard time comprehending basic words (even if they are in complete capitals). There's no offensive, or defensive Force powers allowed in this fight (save for passive usage).

Originally posted by Advent
If Mace disarms Sidious as in your supposed scenario, then he's dead. Clearly you have a hard time comprehending basic words (even if they are in complete capitals). There's no offensive, or defensive Force powers allowed in this fight (save for passive usage).
Sidious would be beaten by Mace if no force is allowed. But I think Sidious can hold off Mace longer than Dooku. So, once Dooku falls, Yoda can help Sidious to finish Mace.

Does it really look like I give a shit? Why would you quote me, when nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote? I'm not arguing who would win, or who can beat who. If I were, the topic would be over. So, please review carefully, and don't quote out of context, because it's annoying.

Originally posted by Advent
Does it really look like I give a shit? Why would you quote me, when nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote? I'm not arguing who would win, or who can beat who. If I were, the topic would be over. So, please review carefully, and don't quote out of context, because it's annoying. OK...prehaps he missed the words "it is a Lightsaber match ONLY."

it's "she" not "he".... team 2 takes this

Originally posted by Riverollv
it's "she" not "he".... team 2 takes this Agree. Who is "she"?

Originally posted by Riverollv
it's "she" not "he".... team 2 takes this

Who? The only female in the thread is me, and vader11 was referring to darthsith when he said that 'he missed the words', so 'he' is the correct pronoun.

Originally posted by Advent
Who? The only female in the thread is me, and vader11 was referring to darthsith when he said that 'he missed the words', so 'he' is the correct pronoun. Yes, exactly. haha, I didn't even know you are a girl...

Originally posted by Advent
Who? The only female in the thread is me, and vader11 was referring to darthsith when he said that 'he missed the words', so 'he' is the correct pronoun.

Oh, my mistake, i thought he was referring to you. Though, he didnt know you were a girl, either

No, I'm not as foolish as to not read essential details. But, seeing as you're fairly new, I'll let that slide.

thanx

Originally posted by Advent
Does it really look like I give a shit? Why would you quote me, when nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote? I'm not arguing who would win, or who can beat who. If I were, the topic would be over.

Originally posted by Master Bane
What so funny?

Originally posted by Master Bane


It's true, though, haha

Originally posted by Advent
If Mace disarms Sidious as in your supposed scenario, then he's dead. Clearly you have a hard time comprehending basic words (even if they are in complete capitals). There's no offensive, or defensive Force powers allowed in this fight (save for passive usage).
Geeze Advent, so f*cking sorry that I missed part of the original post, which WASN'T written in capital letters, by the way. Did you have to be so insensitive in correcting me?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Geeze Advent, so f*cking sorry that I missed part of the original post

Apology accepted.



Originally posted by Count Makashi
it is a Lightsaber match ONLY.



'Insensitive'? Please, darthsith. You sound worse than me talking to my ex.

I can see why he's your ex...

You practicly wore the pants in that relationship didn't you?

She left him for me.

I'm sorry Advent, but seriously.

Advent: IS THIS ALL YOU'VE GOT? FASTER! YOU'RE WEAK! ARGHHH LEMME GET ON TOP! I'M JAPA-FRAKIN-NESE!

man: Y-y-y-yes de-

Advent: SHUT UP!

Advent, one f*cking word was capitalized, you made it seem like the entire thing was! And you are insensitive, look at your criticism of vader11, who did absolutely NOTHING to you to make you upset.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Advent, one f*cking word was capitalized

Your attempt to argue semantics is rather pointless, it's the mere fact that I've seen you do this on several occasion, one just yesterday, which leads me to believe you don't even read the entire post before responding. Not only that, but in a very old debate about Plo Koon's lightsaber form, you still couldn't understand what I was saying, despite the fact I explained myself several times. I mean, do you want me to sugar coat my posts? This isn't the Disney Channel, if you haven't noticed.



http://youtube.com/watch?v=N1j9HQ_uUtc

@ Burnt Pancakes (...?):

Lmao. You sure you weren't the guy video taping my sex acts?

Love that song.

Advent, you let them videotape us?

Okay, so I don't f*cking read the first post every time before I post, and maybe in a really old debate, so what, get out of the past. Damn, so insensitive.

I had to get some form of blackmail. I mean, if you ever left me, what would the public think about you fooling around with a Star Wars cosplaying dominatrix?

Originally posted by Advent
I had to get some form of blackmail. I mean, if you ever left me, what would the public think about you fooling around with a Star Wars cosplaying dominatrix?

Leave you? I love you far too much to even entertain the thought of leaving you.

People, this is seriously of topic, lets focus on this thread, OK.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin Skywalker, Count Dooku and Mace Windu versus Yoda, Sidious and Obi-Wan Kenobi, all from their ROTS appearance. The fight takes place in Geonosis Arena and it is a Lightsaber match ONLY.
Which team wins?

Team two

Why team 2 and even if they win, it wont be easy.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Team two Agree.

Why, people, if the fight goes like this, Yoda versus Dooku, Mace versus Sidious and Obi versus Anakin, the team 1 has a little better choice, Obi was doing so good against Anakin, because he was so emotionally conflicted

Anakin vs Obiwan is perhaps the longest fight. It depends on who fall down first, Dooku or Sidious. If Dooku fall first, team 2 wins, if Sidious fall first, team 1 wins.

I think Anakin in the right mind set, could take easily Kenobi, like he was in the ZONE against Dooku. He want always choke his wife, before a fight with Kenobi.

Anyone vs Obiwan would be a long fight, coz it is hard to beat Kenobi by a saber.

Ok, Anakin wouldn't pwn him, but could take this relatively quickly, at his best, i think, he is just to much to handle, for Kenobi.

Anakin would probably beat Kenobi, but I am not sure how long it takes. I believe Dooku or Sidious may fall faster.
If the fight goes other ways, I still see team 2 has a greater chance to win.

If its Dooku versus Obi and Mace versus Yoda and Anakin versus Sidious, the team 1 has quite a bigger chance of whining.

Dooku & Obi would be a long fight. Mace & Yoda is also close, and I don't know about Anakin vs Sidious. So it's hard to decide. If Sidious can take out Anakin, and Yoda can take out Mace, then team 2 wins.

Yes, but i would gibe a better chance to Anakin in a sword fight against Sidious.

So both team can win. But I favor team 2.

And i team 1, but its a very, very close fight, it could go in any direction.

Yes, I give team two 60%, team one 40%

And i would give the team 1 55% and the team 2 45% chances.

Becoz of Dooku, I know

No, not because of Dooku, i just think, they are a little better.

If in general skills, team 2 is a little better.

That isn't cannon. And its 2 level 9 versus 2 level 9, if you are going by that measurement.

Yes, I was wrong...but I still think team 2 is better

Ok and think team 1 is better and lets not post, until we have more then just team 1 and team 2 is better. It has to be more. And i got to go, to sleep.

Let's see what other forumers think.

I'd give team two the edge.

Team one's best chance is:

Anakin fights Yoda
Mace fights Sidious
Dooku fights Kenobi

However, Yoda could probably disengage from Anakin if his team really needed help.

Originally posted by Gideon
Advent, you let them videotape us?

Yes, yes indeed that was me. It worked perfectly.. being black and all, I blended in to the darkness...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'd give team two the edge.

Team one's best chance is:

Anakin fights Yoda
Mace fights Sidious
Dooku fights Kenobi

However, Yoda could probably disengage from Anakin if his team really needed help. I agree that team 2 has a greater chance to win. It seems most people here think team 2 would wins too.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'd give team two the edge.

Team one's best chance is:

Anakin fights Yoda
Mace fights Sidious
Dooku fights Kenobi

However, Yoda could probably disengage from Anakin if his team really needed help.

The best chance the team 1 has is

Anakin versus Sidious
Mace versus Yoda
Dooku fights Kenobi

And how can Yoda disengage in your scenario and even if he does, it leaves anakin there, do you think he will just watch and do nothing.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
The best chance the team 1 has is

Anakin versus Sidious
Mace versus Yoda
Dooku fights Kenobi
Yes, this is their best chance, but I don't think they will fight like this...so team 2...

good logic

Why not mine? Mace has shown that he can beat Siduos in combat, and would be more efficient against him thanks to Vaapad. Anakin could hold off Yoda in a purely blade competition. Dooku would hold Kenobi out of the fight and eventually defeat him.

No i think mine is better, Mace holds of Yoda, when one of his teammates kills his opponent.

OK...both are the best chances...

No, their can be only one.

But I think Mace can take down Sidious quick...like in the movie...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Why not mine? Mace has shown that he can beat Siduos in combat, and would be more efficient against him thanks to Vaapad. Anakin could hold off Yoda in a purely blade competition. Dooku would hold Kenobi out of the fight and eventually defeat him.
It's good, but i would put Anakin with Kenobi and Dooku with Yoda, as both have been proven to be able to contend with the other in saber combat.

Anakin vs Obiwan, Dooku vs Yoda, and Mace vs Sidious have all been seen in the movies.

Assuming we paired the duelists up via their respective foes, we would have:

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan
Dooku vs. Yoda
Mace vs. Sidious

This is, actually, a difficult fight. Assuming that Mace is equipped with his Shatterpoint ability (which sort've makes the fight unfair, as any dark side foe is immediately at a disadvantage), he will eventually conquer Palpatine in combat. However, this would neither be quick nor easy.

As for Yoda vs. Dooku, it is hypothetically possible that Yoda could comfortably beat Count Dooku in combat. The reason being: we have never seen Yoda go "full-out" on Dooku. Assuming, however, he is still in his conflicted state of mind, he will still win, but the fight will be much longer.

Then it comes down to Obi-Wan vs. Anakin, which is - in many ways - the hardest fight to evaluate. Anakin has the raw power, the strength, and the offensive form in his favor, but Obi-Wan is much more tactical, more experienced, and his defensive skills are impressive. If Anakin can think clearly, he will beat Obi-Wan in a comfortable amount of time. If not, Obi-Wan will defeat him.

My bet? Team One, I see, winning more. But it's not easy, and Dooku will be die.

Team two has more chance to win indeed. Also, I think Dooku is the first to fall in the fight, so team 2 wins.

No, Kenobi is the first to fall, or Sidious if he fights Mace.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Team two takes this. Regardless of what anyone says, Obi-wan beat Anakin once and there is no reason to believe that he can't do it again. With Anakin it's the simple trade off that if he is using the DS he can't think strait and when he's not Obi-wan is superior through sheer skill. Obi-wan takes Anakin.

Then you have Yoda. He can take anyone here in a lightsaber fight and will probably go after Mace, who is the next most dangerous opponent here. Yoda takes him after a long, hard fight.

Finally, Sidious holds off Dooku for long enough to get help. I don't think Sidious could take Dooku in a one on one fight without use of Force Powers, which this fight states he can't use. However, he will have backup with plenty of time to spare from Obi-wan and Yoda. Dooku goes down. Team two takes the cup.

Toss up.

Obi-Wan beat Darth Vader (Pissed off, blinded by extreme rage)
Not Anakin. (Focused determined)

Obi-Wan does get raped by Anakin and loses first.
Since Anakin is technically superior to Obi-Wan in sheer skill, not the other way around.

Yoda might go after Mace, but If Dooku gets in the way, It could just be the two of them together.

I agree though, the weak link here in Mace VS Yoda.

If Mace fights Sidious instead and Yoda fights Dooku, team 1 wins.
Otherwise team 2 wins.

Mace is very good, why is he the weak link here.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
No, Kenobi is the first to fall, or Sidious if he fights Mace.

No. Assuming that Yoda goes "full out" on Count Dooku, then Dooku goes down pretty quick. Sidious would last longer against Mace. Though, if we're to assume that this is "emotionally conflicted" Yoda, then Dooku still goes down, it's just longer.

No he doesn't, Dooku would stood his own for some time, Yoda would win, but after a long time.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
No he doesn't, Dooku would stood his own for dome time, Yoda would win, but after a long time.

No, dude. If Yoda went "full out" on Count Dooku (like he did with Sidious), Dooku wouldn't last very long at all. We can debate this, if you like. To tell ya the truth, I'm kind've hoping for it.

Yoda vs Dooku is shorter than Sidious vs Mace in movies

But Sidious lost, Dooku ran away and gave Yoda a very good fight.

Dooku is losting too

Originally posted by Count Makashi
But Sidious lost, Dooku ran away and gave Yoda a very good fight.

I'm lovin' the logic, here.

Are you implying that Sidious didn't give Mace a good fight? I'd certainly say that he did, given that he butchered Mace's team of Jedi while Mace was present before Mace could adequetly defend them. Or the fact that he controlled the first portion of the duel and drove him back into the main office.

Count Dooku fled because he was losing. I could give you several quotes on the issue, including the "unable to defeat Yoda in combat, Dooku fled" from the Ultimate Visual Guide. Then, of course, we have to address the fight that Yoda obviously wasn't looking to kill Dooku, as I've proven dozens and dozens of times.

Yea, he would have lost after a long fight, and he completed his objective, while Yoda, like with Sidious didn't.

Sidious killed 3 Jedi Masters in seconds.
If Yoda & Dooku are fight to death, I think Dooku would lose quick.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm lovin' the logic, here.

Are you implying that Sidious didn't give Mace a good fight? I'd certainly say that he did, given that he butchered Mace's team of Jedi while Mace was present before Mace could adequetly defend them. Or the fact that he controlled the first portion of the duel and drove him back into the main office.

Count Dooku fled because he was losing. I could give you several quotes on the issue, including the "unable to defeat Yoda in combat, Dooku fled" from the Ultimate Visual Guide. Then, of course, we have to address the fight that Yoda obviously wasn't looking to kill Dooku, as I've proven dozens and dozens of times. Ya, somewhere mention that Dooku realized that he is no match for Yoda in saber.

Yoda went all out in AOTC, even if not to kill him, he went all out to capture him and couldn't do it, if he was that much better, he would defeat him easily.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, he would have lost after a long fight, and he completed his objective, while Yoda, like with Sidious didn't.

That doesn't determine the victor of the battle. From a tactical perspective, in RotS, Sidious won - while the duel itself was a stalemate. Dooku retreated, which is the same as "losing" the duel. In terms of objectives? Yes, he won, to a degree. But the CIS still got owned on Geonosis, and he fled with his tail between his legs.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yoda went all out in AOTC, even if not to kill him, he went all out to capture him and couldn't do it, if he was that much better, he would defeat him easily.

No.

Someone who is "going all out" would take every single opportunity available to bring their opponent down. The Jedi philosophy is one that requires making "sacrifice", it's their whole cry. If Yoda was actually looking to kill Dooku, he would have let that pillar crush Obi-Wan and Anakin, and he would have continued the duel.

If Yoda really want to kill him, he can give up saving Kenobi & Anakin to kill Dooku.

Ya, I don't think Yoda was going all out..."fought well you have, my old padawan..."

But during the duel, there was nothing that prevented him, going all out, he let his feelings get in the way, in case of the pillar, but when he was fighting Dooku, he was going all out, he had to stop him to escape, to stop the war.

Dooku actually can't go away if Obiwan & Anakin were not there...

Originally posted by Count Makashi
But during the duel, there was nothing that prevented him, going all out, he let his feelings get in the way, in case of the pillar, but when he was fighting Dooku, he was going all out, he had to stop him to escape, to stop the war.

Wow. That is one of the worst excuses for a character's defense I have ever read, Count Makashi. Stop attempting to interpret Yoda's feelings without sufficient evidence; you have no proof and you're not George Lucas. Thus, your theories are baseless and do not function as evidence.

If he wanted to kill Dooku, he would have used every instance he could of to bring him down. He didn't. Plain and simple.

Ya, it is a fact that Yoda is better than Dooku in saber.

And what did he do against Sidious, i didn't see him using any offensive techniques, he waited for Sidious moves and countered him and are you seriously suggesting that Yoda wasn't going all out on Dooku, lets say at least to capture him. The Jedi thought by capturing him, the war would end, the lives of countless civilians wouldn't be jeopardized, what was the reason for him to hold back during the duel.

"Destroy the Sith we must!" versus "Captured, Dooku must be, before he rallies more systems to his cause!"

Really, Count Makashi, do I have to spell it out for you? He engaged Sidious with the intent and goal to kill - not capture - him. It wasn't even a "capture, if possible, kill if necessary" goal. It was to terminate his life.

Yet, he makes it completely clear that his goal was to capture Dooku. Thus, he didn't want nor act to kill Dooku.



Right; Yoda waited for Sidious - the Dark Lord of the Sith, his primary enemy - to attack him first. Ridiculous. No, Yoda went into the duel cocky and overconfident, and got blasted unconscious for his efforts. Then, he took the fight seriously, and went on the offensive first.



Are you "seriously suggesting" that going "full-out" on someone to capture them is the same as going "full-out" on someone to kill them? I'd call you an idiot if that is your thought.



That's nice.

Yoda's goal was to "capture Dooku". As in to bring him in alive. We've learned, even, from Dark Rendezvous, that Yoda was practically itching for the chance to redeem his prized pupil.

Ya, capture is different to kill. So, Yoda need to go full out with Sidious but not Dooku. Yoda didn't want to kill Dooku, so he cannot go full out. Go full out would be easy to kill Dooku.

No it wouldn't, if it was easily to kill him, it would be easily to capture him and what i meant, he didn't use any offensive Force attack, except for the push, when Sidious threw pods at him, he captured them and threw it back, when Sidious used Lightning, Yoda absorb it and deflected it back, just like with Dooku, he didn't use any offensive Force powers an only went on offensive with lightsabers, like with Dooku. Yoda brought his A game against both Sith, he was wining against Dooku, it was a draw against Sidious. And even by capturing someone, you still have to try your best, because he is fighting you and if Yoda was so much better, that you say he was, why didn't he easily capture him then, he could have cut of one of his hands(that would still be capturing him), use the Force on him, if he is leagues above him.

That's piss poor logic.

First, I didn't say that "it would be easy" for Yoda to kill Dooku. I simply said that Yoda would dominate him and defeat him without putting forth his best effort.

Second, Yoda wasn't fighting Dooku to kill him, but Dooku was fighting to kill, thus, Yoda was at a disadvantage. Dooku was willing to go to greater lengths than Yoda was.



What else was he going to do, Count Makashi? Realistically speaking, aside from using dark side-related techniques, the Jedi have crap to work with in terms of "offensive maneuvers" unless it's ritualistic in nature. Why do you think Yoda tried to keep the fight to lightsabers?



The Jedi's natural state is "defensive", and unless they are using dark side-related attacks, they are simply more ruthless with it when they are looking to kill somebody.



Because that's all he could do.



Bingo. Need I remind you that during the Force contest, Yoda only attempted to attack Yoda once? There goes your entire argument. If Yoda was giving it his all, he would have chucked the debris back at Dooku or attacked him with his lightning both times.



He attacked Sidious with all he had; that wasn't the case with Dooku.



He brought it only with Sidious.



Yes, and he wasn't giving it his all.



Because Sidious is both a match for Yoda and as powerful. Dooku is neither.



Nope. If you fight your absolute best, you intend to kill the opponent and use all opportunities to do so.



Poor logic. Had it been someone of Sidious's calibre, then, yes, Yoda would have had to at least give it his "all" in terms of defense. But we know that Count Dooku can't beat Yoda on a planet steeped in the dark side, when Yoda is both a.) unwilling to kill Dooku and b.) distracted.

Please. It's a sign of superiority then. Dooku had all the advantages, and he still fled.



Are you braindead? I said Yoda would beat Dooku without putting forth his best effort. That doesn't make Dooku "easily captured", especially when Dooku is fighting his hardest.



The hell is wrong with you, Makashi? Dooku simply just doesn't measure up to Yoda at all. He couldn't defeat an emotionally conflicted and distracted Yoda on Vjun, so he couldn't take Yoda if Yoda were going all out.

I never said, that he could take Yoda, just that Yoda, would take some time to defeat Dooku and during their lightsaber duel, Yoda was more on the offensive, that wasn't very defensive natural state. Policemen always go with the intent to capture their targets, does that mean, they aren't trying their best and i have to go to sleep, we will continue this tomorrow.

Okay. I'm about to get off for a bit, anyways.

Actually Dooku would lose if Obiwan & Anakin were not there.
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=37&page=130
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=37&page=131
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=37&page=132
Yoda can actually beat Dooku quickly.

CM, by your logic, if Yoda was fighting at his best to even capture Dooku and couldn't do it, then Dooku should be able to capture or kill Yoda without question, right? Yoda could have killed Dooku during the 8 seconds it took him to turn his attentions away from Yoda to try to crush OB1 and Anakin, but he didn't do that - why? - because he didn't want to kill him.

Yes, accept that, CM

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
CM, by your logic, if Yoda was fighting at his best to even capture Dooku and couldn't do it, then Dooku should be able to capture or kill Yoda without question, right? Yoda could have killed Dooku during the 8 seconds it took him to turn his attentions away from Yoda to try to crush OB1 and Anakin, but he didn't do that - why? - because he didn't want to kill him.

What are you talking about, i said Yoda was wining and if the fight continued he would have won, i am just arguing it wouldn't be easy victory for Yoda, if it was so easy, as Gideon said, whats the point of Dooku and Yoda knew, by stooping Dooku from escaping, he would stop the war, why wouldn't he fight his best, at least to capture him, but even to capture Dooku, hes still needs to penetrate his defenses, thats what he was trying in AOTC. Yoda would win, butt far from easy and his feelings got in the way, but not his feelings for Dooku, but for the wounded pair.

Vader11, that comic isn't canon, Dooku fights with 2 sabers in it, but its canonical stated, that he hates Jar'Kai and Yoda was more tired after the fight in the movies, not that it mattered in the fight.

He was gonna use two sabers in the movie, but it was cut out.

Yea, i know, but the character of Dooku despises Jar'Kai, he thinks, that fighting with 1 blade is enough, like a gentleman.

Comics are only rendered non canon when contradicted by a higher form of canon, so if it was not contradicted, then he used two sabers. Also, being that he was the temple's BM, he would have to be extremely proficient in it to be able to teach it.

Here is the singular problem with your entire argument, Count Makashi: Yoda has never attacked Count Dooku to the "best of his ability". He's never gone "full-out" on him. Not once. This is simple fact and it is unquestionable, and you have no evidence that can refute it. So, instead of thinking like a fanboy, think logically.

In AotC, Yoda told Mace that Dooku must be "captured". He had no intent of taking Dooku's life; and, in a fight to the death (which is what it was with Dooku) if you don't intend to kill your opponent, you fight with restraint. That means that Yoda was holding back. It is simple logic that if you intend to kill your opponent, you will fight your hardest and take every single opportunity you can to end their life.

a.) Count Dooku attacked Yoda with the Force several times, trying to bring down debris from the hangar on his head. What did Yoda do? He simply brushed it aside. If he was trying to kill Dooku, what would he have done? He would have made an attempt to throw it back. Count Dooku attacked Yoda with Force lightning as well, and Yoda simply crushed the lightning in his hand. He did not make an attempt to subdue or incapacitate him. Only during the final salvo did Yoda hurl the lightning back. There you go. Four times, Yoda showed absolute restraint towards bringing Dooku harm.

b.) The novelization and script prove that Dooku was fighting Yoda to the best of his ability (attempting to establish dominance), but failed to breach Yoda's defense.

c.) As previously stated - if Yoda were fighting to the best of his ability, he would be without restraints and take every opportunity available. He did neither. Knowing full well what sort've threat Count Dooku represented, he let him go, and opted to save Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Here's the kicker:

Obi-Wan and Yoda discussed the war in RotS, and Obi-Wan said: "If ending the war even a day sooner would require me to take your life, I would do so." And Yoda not only agreed, but said that he would do the same - that any Jedi would do so in a similar position. Also, Yoda didn't believe that Anakin was the Chosen One - saying that the prophecy could have been "misread". So he had no real reason to save Obi-Wan or Anakin. But perhaps he took the opportunity so that he wouldn't have to kill Dooku.

d.) We learn the full depth of Yoda's relationship with Count Dooku in Dark Rendezvous. Yoda still cares for Dooku, and knowingly walks into a trap to try to convert him back to the light side of the Force. You'll notice that he didn't try to do that with Palpatine in RotS. It's because he still cared for Dooku and thought that he could be redeemed. That whole novel is Dooku - but, moreso, Sidious - taking advantage of Yoda's concern and love for Dooku.

e.) They fight on Vjun, a planet entrenched in the dark side of the Force, where Dooku's power is "enhanced" (he brought Asajj to her knees by lifting a finger) and Yoda's would naturally be dampened. To top it off, Dooku chucked the housemaid out of a window, forcing Yoda to catch her with the Force - and he simultaneously attacked Yoda. Yet, what happened? Ah, yes: Dooku fled, once again, forcing Yoda to save Vjun by stopping the missile Dooku placed in orbit in case of his defeat.

And even during that, Yoda didn't want to kill Dooku: "wish to hurt you, I do not!"

There you are, Count Makashi. The unfortunate weakness to your entire argument is that Yoda has never attacked Dooku with the intent to kill. He has always battled him with restraint. Dooku couldn't even overcome a restrained and distracted Yoda with enhanced powers. That goes to show the true gap of power between them.

If Yoda attacked Dooku with the intent to kill, it would be a comfortable win.

Don't like it? Then argue it. But, personally, I don't think you've got enough support.

sick burn!

Although I disagree with the Yoda not thinking Anakin was the Chosen One. I think what he was referring to was, "is he not to destroy the sith and bring balance to the force?' meaning that there could possibly be a down period before the up, a'la turning to Vader, then killing the emperor thus fulfilling the prophecy. Also, he said, "the chosen one the boy may be, but..." not meaning he may be the one, but although he is, i'm against his training. But, thats not the argument. Just wanted to mention it...

The point is that Yoda did not believe, for a second, that Anakin was - beyond a shadow of a doubt - the Chosen One. In fact, he never "just believed it". Thus, he had no real reason to rescue Anakin or Obi-Wan from the falling pillar beyond the two simple facts: a.) They were Jedi, which he cared about and b.) It would save him from possibly killing Count Dooku.

Or, Yoda's a hypocrite, which is also possible.

The main focus in the comic is not Dooku using 2 sabers or not, but is Dooku is not even close with Yoda...

Originally posted by Gideon
Only during the final salvo did Yoda hurl the lightning back.


Actually, it was the first.