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Since so many people think AOTC Obiwan can beat Old Ben, who would win between TPM Obiwan and ANH Ben?

ANH Ben's skills greatly diminished between ROTS and ANH. In that 30year span, I do think that his skills aren't what they used to be. Therefore if he were to fight TPH Obi-Wan, this is not a fair fight. TPM Obi is far more superior and much stronger in the force. "Old" Ben goes down.

Are you kidding? TPM Obiwan is much stronger than Ben in the force?

Originally posted by vader11
Are you kidding? TPM Obiwan is much stronger than Ben in the force?

Didn't I say that?

How come TPM Obiwan is much stronger in the force?

ANH Obi wins, com on he pwn himself from TPM, TPM Obi-Wan, hasn't mastered any form and is weak in the Force, who is naive, while on the other hand ANH Kenobi is master of the Soresu, much stronger in the Force, allot more experience, more mature, thinks smarter, faced allot more opponents then TPM Kenobi did, he maybe little out of practice, but he has this in the bag.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ANH Obi wins, com on he pwn himself from TPM, TPM Obi-Wan, hasn't mastered any form and is weak in the Force, who is naive, while on the other hand ANH Kenobi is master of the Soresu, much stronger in the Force, allot more experience, more mature, thinks smarter, faced allot more opponents then TPM Kenobi did, he maybe little out of practice, but he has this in the bag.

Agreed.

Also, while being out of practice is a setback, it doesn't seem to be as big of one as you might think. I mean, Yoda hardly ever used his lightsaber. Sidious hadn't used his in over a decade. Also, we have people like Yaddle, who didn't use hers for many decades (or so I hear) and Ulic, who picked his lightsaber up after losing his connection to the force and was still moderately proficient with it. So Kenobi grew with the force, didn't improve with a saber, but didn't lose all that much with his blade either, between ROTS and ANH.

Yea, but its still a small disadvantage, but very small.

Ya...I think Ben takes this one.

Agree with everyone except the dude with the Maul avator (though yeah for the Maul avator! ). To add to what others have said, ANH Kenobi seemed to be about on par with Vader until he decided to let Vader kill him, and Vader would beat TPM Kenobi with easily.

TPM Kenobi is still a padawan...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Agree with everyone except the dude with the Maul avator (though yeah for the Maul avator! ). To add to what others have said, ANH Kenobi seemed to be about on par with Vader until he decided to let Vader kill him, and Vader would beat TPM Kenobi with easily.

So, you dont agree, with yourself.

Coz TPM Kenobi beat Maul, so he think TMP Kenobi can beat Ben

Originally posted by Count Makashi
So, you dont agree, with yourself.

Originally posted by vader11
Coz TPM Kenobi beat Maul, so he think TMP Kenobi can beat Ben

No, because I said I don't agree with the guy with the Maul avator, and I'm also the guy with the Maul avator, man you are so clueless aren't you?

OB1 beat Maul (who was a superior duelist) because he got lucky. Period. It's been proven that Maul was a better duelist.

Old Ben takes this one. To assume that TPM OB1 is more powerful than old Ben is crazy. He's had more than 30 years to perfect his craft. And young OB1 here had too many flaws in his saber game to be truly effective. He hadn't even started form 3 yet.

Kenobi takes this.

uh...which one?

The mroe powerful version.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Kenobi takes this.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
The mroe powerful version.
Excellent answers

yes, the one that "mroe" powerful! that was slick though...

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Kenobi takes this.

My disrespect for you aside, that was genuinely funny.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
ANH Ben's skills greatly diminished between ROTS and ANH. In that 30year span, I do think that his skills aren't what they used to be. Therefore if he were to fight TPH Obi-Wan, this is not a fair fight. TPM Obi is far more superior and much stronger in the force. "Old" Ben goes down.

Well, Ben is stronger in the Force than TPM Obi-Wan, and his lightsaber technique may not be as flashy as it used to be, but he most likely was intelligent enough to modify it so that it would still be effective even into his old age. Also, Soresou uses small movements and very little energy, so that the fact that Ben is old would only go against him if he were fighting an opponent that uses big smashes and brute strength. Old Ben takes this one, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Kenobi takes this.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
The mroe powerful version.

Also, Ben knows all about how he used to fight...

TPM Obi is also very reckless and will make allot of mistakes in a fight, which old Ben will capitalize on.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
OB1 beat Maul (who was a superior duelist) because he got lucky. Period. It's been proven that Maul was a better duelist.

Old Ben takes this one. To assume that TPM OB1 is more powerful than old Ben is crazy. He's had more than 30 years to perfect his craft. And young OB1 here had too many flaws in his saber game to be truly effective. He hadn't even started form 3 yet.
Wait... so you think that AOTC Kenobi would beat Old Ben comfortably or he would pwn him (looking at the poll and assuming that you voted) but you think that Old Ben would beat TPM Kenobi and to think otherwise is "crazy"? Come on man, how much do you think that Kenobi improved between TPM and AOTC? His speed stays pretty even, as do his saber skills (AOTC Kenobi's may be slightly better but they don't seem to be much better which makes sense as he started learning a whole new form over the 10 year gap). His Force skills are probably slightly better, though we don't really have proof of that, and he may have less flaws, but you make it seem as if his powers double between TPM and AOTC. That's "crazy".

Do you try to argue with me just to argue with me? Just curious there. And yes, I think there was more improvement from TPM to AOTC than there was from AOTC to ROTS. Its only logical, 10 years compared to 2 or 3. If he was THE master of form 3 during EP3, then he'd achieved that before the period we saw, which means he was damn near perfect with it in AOTC. Ten years is a long time to hone your skills in the force as well, at least for a human (as opposed to someone like Yoda where 10 years is like a nap). If you're under the assumption that there was some monumental power increase over the 3 year period of AOTC to ROTS then you need to rethink that theory. His speed increased, his power increase immensely, and his patience had increase serving him better in duels. Maul was tooling both OB1 and QGJ, no reason to assume that your boy Ben couldn't do that to TPM OB1 alone. Although the only thing that would be in Young Ob's favor would be his speed, but without knowing how to properly utilize it, it won't mean much. So yes, Ben beats TPM, and loses to AOTC...

No, just find your view on the Kenobi's to be very odd.

Whoa, really?


10 years on going on missions and started to elanr a completely new form vs. 3 years of fighting in a brutal war? Bad logic there.

Not if he mastered sometime about exactly in-between AOTC and ROTS, then in AOTC he could have just been alright with it.

Yeah, but there's nothing that kenobi does in AOTC that really showes that he improved a lot with the Force. Really in-between TPM and AOTC Kenobi's saber skills icnreased a little bit, and his Force skills probably increased some, and he got smarter. In-between AOTC and ROTS his speed increased a lot, his saber skills increased a lot (from the war) and his Force skills might not have improves as much as they did between TPM and AOTC, but they probably improved a little, his experience grows a lot (more than it did during TPM to AOTC). I don't see how you can say that he improved more between TPM and AOTC than between AOTC and ROTS.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Do you try to argue with me just to argue with me? Just curious there. And yes, I think there was more improvement from TPM to AOTC than there was from AOTC to ROTS. Its only logical, 10 years compared to 2 or 3. If he was THE master of form 3 during EP3, then he'd achieved that before the period we saw, which means he was damn near perfect with it in AOTC. Ten years is a long time to hone your skills in the force as well, at least for a human (as opposed to someone like Yoda where 10 years is like a nap). If you're under the assumption that there was some monumental power increase over the 3 year period of AOTC to ROTS then you need to rethink that theory. His speed increased, his power increase immensely, and his patience had increase serving him better in duels. Maul was tooling both OB1 and QGJ, no reason to assume that your boy Ben couldn't do that to TPM OB1 alone. Although the only thing that would be in Young Ob's favor would be his speed, but without knowing how to properly utilize it, it won't mean much. So yes, Ben beats TPM, and loses to AOTC...

What you're saying is very logical, but in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC, Obi-Wan wasn't practicing his lightsaber skills nearly as much as his diplomacy skills, which, at the time, were more important than fighting skills. I'm guessing that's what you mean by his patience improving. Between AOTC and ROTS, Obi-Wan was constantly forced to use his lightsaber to defend himself against blaster bolts, which helped him develope his Soresou so fast.

On another note, Maul did not "tool" Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. As it appears in the movie, the pair of them had Maul on the retreat for most of the fight, if not the defensive. "Tooling" is what (as it pains me to say it) Sidious did to Mace Windu's team of Jedi when they attempted to arrest him. I don't know why, but a lot of people are under the impression that being victorious over one opponent is the same as owning.

Yeah, there should be more improvement between AOTC & ROTS than from TPM to AOTC.

Yea, i also think that there was more improvement from AOTC to ROTS, he fought constantly in the war, fighting become like 2 nature to him.

And what do you think prepared him for all that fighting? Just sitting in his room stroking his lightsaber? C'mon y'all, use logic. You can get better over a 10 year period moreso than over a 3 year period. To assume that he was only "ok" with Soresru (?) in AOTC is ludicrous. You would have to provide proof that he only just mastered his form as of ep3, rather than say a year before. In any and everything you do, you go in stages and steps, you stay consistent with your rate of improvement, you wont just make a huge leaps and bounds out of nowhere. There's also nothing to suggest that he would get better at that point than before that. Once you start getting towards the apex of your abilities, there's only so much more you can learn; whereas when you're younger and less knowledgable, there's more for you to improve on and learn; therefore making it logical that a more inexperienced OB1 would improve more in a 10 year time span rather than an almost capped OB1 over a 3 year span. If anything, the most that OB1 would gain would be experience which has little to do with actual skill, as opposed to just learning when to apply said skills.

So please explain how you believe the opposite to be true.

His training prepared him. And he recieved training other than between TPM and AOTC, too, you know, you don't have to have just been fighting a ton to be able to fight, even if he hadn't done nothing but "strike his lightsaber" for 10 years he'd still have been able to fight in the Clone Wars. And no, he wasn't sitting and stroking his saber for ten years, but he did a lot less fighting between TPM and AOTC than he did between AOTC and ROTS. A LOT less.

I can't, but you haven't proved that he was more than okay with it in AOTC, either, so neither of us win until we provide proof.

False. Nothing every says that your rate of increasing will stay contestant. And it won't, unless you want to say that Luke didn't increase a lot during ESB, or Bane didn't during PoD, or Anakin didn't during the Clone Wars. But it makes sense, the more you fight the more rapidly your powers increase, and it is not consistent unless you fight with your saber the same amount each year.

But Kenobi wasn't near the apex of his abilities in AOTC. And it's true that at the beginning of your path you will increase faster, however, TPM Kenobi is not at the beginning, is he? beginning is before Kenobi even became an apprentice. But if you fight more in 3 years than you do in 10 then you will increase more. Lets compare this to lifting weights. Lets say you've been lifting weights for 5 years, an hour a day, 3 days a week. Then, for 2 more years you lift weights for an hour a day, three days a week. Then, after those 2 years, you lift weights for 7 more months, 6 days a week, 3 hours a day, you will increase more in the seven months than you did in the 2 years before that. This s like what Kenobi did, the 5 years being before TPM, the 2 years being inbetween TPM and AOTC, and the 7 months is AOTC to ROTS, except with fighting instead of lifting weights, and it makes perfect sense.

Obi Wan, during AOTC, was an above average Jedi Knight, capable of going toe to toe with Jango. Obi Wan during ROTS is a powerful Jedi Master with a seat on the council, who made short work of Greivous and even held off a pissed Anakin. I'd say there is a significant improvement.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
And what do you think prepared him for all that fighting? Just sitting in his room stroking his lightsaber? C'mon y'all, use logic. You can get better over a 10 year period moreso than over a 3 year period. To assume that he was only "ok" with Soresru (?) in AOTC is ludicrous. You would have to provide proof that he only just mastered his form as of ep3, rather than say a year before. In any and everything you do, you go in stages and steps, you stay consistent with your rate of improvement, you wont just make a huge leaps and bounds out of nowhere. There's also nothing to suggest that he would get better at that point than before that. Once you start getting towards the apex of your abilities, there's only so much more you can learn; whereas when you're younger and less knowledgable, there's more for you to improve on and learn; therefore making it logical that a more inexperienced OB1 would improve more in a 10 year time span rather than an almost capped OB1 over a 3 year span. If anything, the most that OB1 would gain would be experience which has little to do with actual skill, as opposed to just learning when to apply said skills.

So please explain how you believe the opposite to be true.

Do you really think that Obi-Wan was constanly forced to use his lightsaber and adjust his fighting style in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC? Do you really think that 10 years of peaceful negotiating will give you more fighting practice than 3 years at war, leading armies and attempting to defeat an enemy that already has the upperhand?

Another example of so-called long-term improvements could be Anakin, I guess. He did oh-so-well against the Count in AOTC because his skills progressed so fast since TPM in those 10 years (no sarcasm on the latter part). However, by ROTS, Anakin managed to kill Count Dooku from 3 years of experience at war.

Yeah, Obiwan should have improved alot since clone wars...

Originally posted by Council#13
Do you really think that Obi-Wan was constanly forced to use his lightsaber and adjust his fighting style in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC? Do you really think that 10 years of peaceful negotiating will give you more fighting practice than 3 years at war, leading armies and attempting to defeat an enemy that already has the upperhand?
Do you really think they don't "train" in all these aspect? "If you practiced your saber techniques as much as your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman." Obviously they dedicate themselves to their craft. If not, they would not be able to fight in all these wars. Why am i the only one who understands that. Like Kamikz, he said he's training and improved immensely, he's not out fighting in the streets, he's training.
Originally posted by Council#13
Another example of so-called long-term improvements could be Anakin, I guess. He did oh-so-well against the Count in AOTC because his skills progressed so fast since TPM in those 10 years (no sarcasm on the latter part). However, by ROTS, Anakin managed to kill Count Dooku from 3 years of experience at war. OB1 is no Anakin and does not posses the power of the Chosen One. It's only logical that the One would progress more quickly, also to add to that fact, Anakin at that point is at the same point that TPM OB1 was, which is the point where you have a lot to learn and pick up things more quickly thusly showing more improvement.

And no, I'm sorry, but lifting weights is nothing like growing in skill. One has to do with how fast muscle fibers tear and rebuild, which is different in everyone, and the other has to do with potential of skillful abilities. Not the same.

@JJ: TPM OB1 was an impatient padawan incapable of leaving his master's side. AOTC OB1 was an above average knight who dealt with JF, fought extremely well at Geonosis, and did alright against Dooku. Same thing. Holding off Anakin is more of a testament of him know ing him "more intimately than lovers" rather than just uber skills. Although he was skilled.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Do you really think they don't "train" in all these aspect? "If you practiced your saber techniques as much as your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman." Obviously they dedicate themselves to their craft. If not, they would not be able to fight in all these wars. Why am i the only one who understands that. Like Kamikz, he said he's training and improved immensely, he's not out fighting in the streets, he's training.

OB1 is no Anakin and does not posses the power of the Chosen One. It's only logical that the One would progress more quickly, also to add to that fact, Anakin at that point is at the same point that TPM OB1 was, which is the point where you have a lot to learn and pick up things more quickly thusly showing more improvement.


Like you said, they merely train. The training that they do is not nearly as intense as the actual fighting they need to do when confronted with an army of battle droids. No offense (seeing as this mistake may be mine), but if that's the quote from AOTC where Obi-Wan tells Anakin how good he could be, it's incorrect. Unless this is coming from a completely different source. In that case, I would be the one who's wrong.

It doesn't matter who had the power of the Chosen One, according to your argument. According to you, the increase of Obi-Wan's power was considerably more between TPM and AOTC than between AOTC and ROTS simply because he had more time to practice. Unless of course, because he is the Chosen One, when he starts is completely irrelevant, seeing as Luke put up a pretty good fight against Vader with very little training. If that is the case, I am completely at loss and don't know what is going on.

gotta take my kids to an Easter egg hunt thing, but i will be coming back to elaborate.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
gotta take my kids to an Easter egg hunt thing, but i will be coming back to elaborate.

Have fun.

ANH Ben easily

Originally posted by kiddo44
ANH Ben easily Agree.

Originally posted by kiddo44
ANH Ben easily Thats absolutely astounding. Now humor us as to why.

Originally posted by kiddo44
ANH Ben easily

I agree. I mean disagree. I mean....

ANH Ben, but not easily. Like Darth Subjekt asked, could you please share with us your reasoning?

Somehow I think it's rather stupid to put different versions of the same character against each other in a versus thread. Reasons ?

a) The later version would know the younger version inside out while this can't be said vice versa. That always gives the older (meaning advanced in age) version of the character a nice advantage.

b) Talking about force users: They only get stronger over time. At least in terms of force powers. They might lose some dexterity and physical strength but in most cases this can easily be ignored due to their ability to aid themselves using the force.

Now really. If the first movies would have been filmed with the technical (and financial) abilities that Lucas has at hand today, nobody would even argue that. ANH Ben and Vader would move around like Dooku (at least) if not going completely CGI and turning the fight into another Yoda VS Sidious. I really don't see why Ben should have lost his fighting skills or speed suddenly, when much older force users (e.g. Dooku or Yoda) didn't.

This being said, ANH Ben would kick the ass of any former version of himself, be it TPM, AotC or RotS Obi-Wan. That battles will be long (Soresu VS Soresu) but old Ben does really have all advantages on his side.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Thats absolutely astounding. Now humor us as to why.

How is this even debated? Jedi Master Kenobi v Padawan Kenobi, wonder who would win? Its almost like debating little kid Anakin v ROTS Anakin.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Somehow I think it's rather stupid to put different versions of the same character against each other in a versus thread. Reasons ?

a) The later version would know the younger version inside out while this can't be said vice versa. That always gives the older (meaning advanced in age) version of the character a nice advantage.

b) Talking about force users: They only get stronger over time. At least in terms of force powers. They might lose some dexterity and physical strength but in most cases this can easily be ignored due to their ability to aid themselves using the force.

Now really. If the first movies would have been filmed with the technical (and financial) abilities that Lucas has at hand today, nobody would even argue that. ANH Ben and Vader would move around like Dooku (at least) if not going completely CGI and turning the fight into another Yoda VS Sidious. I really don't see why Ben should have lost his fighting skills or speed suddenly, when much older force users (e.g. Dooku or Yoda) didn't.

This being said, ANH Ben would kick the ass of any former version of himself, be it TPM, AotC or RotS Obi-Wan. That battles will be long (Soresu VS Soresu) but old Ben does really have all advantages on his side.

*Doesn't waste time retyping this in my own words, and thanks Nai*

Originally posted by kiddo44
How is this even debated? Jedi Master Kenobi v Padawan Kenobi, wonder who would win? Its almost like debating little kid Anakin v ROTS Anakin.

I agree that ANH Ben would with against TPM OB1, just curious as to why you thought that. And no, I wouldn't say its like TPM Anakin vs. ROTS Anakin...thats way more extreme.

Originally posted by kiddo44
How is this even debated? Jedi Master Kenobi v Padawan Kenobi, wonder who would win? Its almost like debating little kid Anakin v ROTS Anakin.

Unlike TPM Anakin, TPM Obi-Wan actually had some experience with the lightsaber and was already proficient in at least one lightsaber form. ermm

Ofcoz TPM Anakin<TPM Obiwan...

Maybe TPM Anakin is a better pilot then TPM OBi-Wan.

Not maybe, I think that's true