Who better to tier heroes . . .?

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leonidas
than us? smile

i'm hoping to make this an ongoing thread, one that will be added to by everyone. should open some good discussion and debate as well.

basically, i see characters as falling into 5 general levels. i also tend to see a top and bottom of each level so obviously there can be some differentiation in powerlevel even WITHIN the 5 levels. anywho, the levels i tend to use are as follows:

1. herald
2. sub-herald
3. mid-tier
4. enhanced
5. street

now, what i'd like to do is get listing of heroes and villains and have them placed into each tier. anytime you want to add a character -- whether it be marvel, dc, indy, whatever! -- just copy and place the preceding list and add away. here's a couple in each to start everyone off. be REALLY cool to see some links to the more obscure characters that some people may not be aware of. smile and of course if you disagree with someone's placement mention it. or open a vs thread and see what everyone else thinks. wink

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye

so, feel free to add as many as you like to whatever level. be cool to get huge lists of each tier that we can discuss. also help newbs (and some vets) understand where certain characters fit. should help creating some equal vs threads too. big grin

leonidas
PS: PLEASE DO NOT SPAM THE THREAD!!

thank you. smile

NiņoAraņa
HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry,

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow

Validus
Strong Lanterns = Green Lantern

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Validus
Strong Lanterns = Green Lantern i edited ermm

capt it up
I am guessing this does not have to do with who can beat who , but rather power levels?

Becuase there a quite a few people in advance that could take down mid tier.


also wolverine was listed by nick fury as having a level 9 power level.

how are these tier made? Some people can be more powerful then others, but there power is more passive then others.

DigiMark007
Cool idea leo. You're just the man to head this I think.

thumb up

Also, I would assume, like capt, that it's power levels....because we can find exceptions at any of these levels if it's a bad matchup for someone.

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America

...

I'd also like to start the official petition to get Spidey in Mid-Tier.

13

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by capt it up
I am guessing this does not have to do with who can beat who , but rather power levels?

Becuase there a quite a few people in advance that could take down mid tier.
You mean Wolverine being able to kill anyone above him?



I could see if it was a danger level, but why power? His healing is buff but it's not that great on its own.

Validus
Originally posted by capt it up
also wolverine was listed by nick fury as having a level 9 power level.

That's meaningingless unless he also specified what level 9 meant.

I honestly think each tier could be further divided upon itself. For example, the street level tier would include Captain America and Robin but there is a clear and rather large difference in "power level" between Captain America and Robin. Same thing in herald level when you've got a like the Surfer grouped with Terrax who got worked over by Surfer in a page and I think most would agree Terrax loses 10/10 to the Surfer.

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by DigiMark007


...

I'd also like to start the official petition to get Spidey in Mid-Tier.

13 i second that 31

capt it up
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
You mean Wolverine being able to kill anyone above him?



I could see if it was a danger level, but why power? His healing is buff but it's not that great on its own.

no I mean people like wolverine, spiderman, sabertooth and so on can take people on in mid tier level.


Not that great? It extremely powerful. Just becuase it a passive power does not mean it not powerful.

leonidas
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, I would assume, like capt, that it's power levels....because we can find exceptions at any of these levels if it's a bad matchup for someone.

yes

this by no means means an enhanced can't take out a mid or even sub-herald level opponent. just in terms of overall power possessed.

and i'd agree with spidey in the lower portion of mid-tier. wink i'd also place venom in the mid-tier.

and if the enhanced surfer is as tough as some say he is, he'd be above herlad, imo.

DigiMark007
Just editing in some Wildstorm people and a few others. And I'm leaving The Doctor out (same reason as Strange....they're >> Herald).


HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter

leonidas
Originally posted by Validus
That's meaningingless unless he also specified what level 9 meant.

I honestly think each tier could be further divided upon itself. For example, the street level tier would include Captain America and Robin but there is a clear and rather large difference in "power level" between Captain America and Robin. Same thing in herald level when you've got a like the Surfer grouped with Terrax who got worked over by Surfer in a page and I think most would agree Terrax loses 10/10 to the Surfer.

i said that. don't you ever listen? big grin

each tier can CLEARLY be sub-divided further. i have no problem saying a character is a low mid-tier, or a high mid-tier. these are simply general guidelines.

if you're not part of the solution, val . . .

stick out tongue

capt it up
Originally posted by leonidas
yes

this by no means means an enhanced can't take out a mid or even sub-herald level opponent. just in terms of overall power possessed.

and i'd agree with spidey in the lower portion of mid-tier. wink i'd also place venom in the mid-tier.

and if the enhanced surfer is as tough as some say he is, he'd be above herlad, imo.

I mvoe both sabertooth, venom, wolverine and spiderman up there beyond simply enchanced they have other abilities that add to there over all powers.

NiņoAraņa
HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, turok

leonidas
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Just editing in some Wildstorm people and a few others. And I'm leaving The Doctor out (same reason as Strange....they're >> Herald).


HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton

hmm, i'd say graviton is sub-herald -- maybe upper sub-herald. team-wrecker, yes. herald . . .? not imo. erm

Validus
Originally posted by leonidas
i said that. don't you ever listen? big grin

each tier can CLEARLY be sub-divided further. i have no problem saying a character is a low mid-tier, or a high mid-tier. these are simply general guidelines.

if you're not part of the solution, val . . .

stick out tongue
I know you said that but as it is now theres a lot of range in each tier and looking at whats currently in each, I'm not even sure how sub herald is different from herald.

DigiMark007
I see the distinction Val....but I agree it can get fuzzy.

And considering what Graviton's done to the Avengers a few times, I see him as herald, but I agree he's low-end herald.

Also, Tooth, Logan = "Nah" for Mid-tier in my book. I can't justify putting peak humans (or even 5 tonners) in a mid-tier level, healing and claws or not. And yes, I realize Logan would take some wins off of Spidey....but we're talking power levels, not matchups.

{edit} Agree with capt about cyke.

capt it up
also should cyclopes bee mid tier?

he powerful however it one form of power other then that he has no powers. While people like thing have many different type of powers.

leonidas
the boundaries between EACH tier will necessarily be blurry. i'd say nova (the weakest herald) could beat for the majority anyone in the sub-herald list. we are still talking STELLAR power levels if she is written properly.

meh, like i said, the tiers will not be (nor can they be) perfect. just general giudelines.

now why don't you do something productive val, and place the guys from legion in the list! big grin

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I see the distinction Val....but I agree it can get fuzzy.

And considering what Graviton's done to the Avengers a few times, I see him as herald, but I agree he's low-end herald.

Also, Tooth, Logan = "Nah" for Mid-tier in my book. I can't justify putting peak humans (or even 5 tonners) in a mid-tier level, healing and claws or not. And yes, I realize Logan would take some wins off of Spidey....but we're talking power levels, not matchups.

{edit} Agree with capt about cyke.

bump

*grumble*

capt it up
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I see the distinction Val....but I agree it can get fuzzy.

And considering what Graviton's done to the Avengers a few times, I see him as herald, but I agree he's low-end herald.

Also, Tooth, Logan = "Nah" for Mid-tier in my book. I can't justify putting peak humans (or even 5 tonners) in a mid-tier level, healing and claws or not. And yes, I realize Logan would take some wins off of Spidey....but we're talking power levels, not matchups.

fury listed wolverines powerlevel over spiderman.....

also wolverine not a peakhuman.......

Logan healing factor is amazingly powerful. does spiderman have any thing that can macht the type of power a healing factor provides? It regenerates hearts, eyes brains, limbs. That would require extreme amount's of power.


also sabertooth is just as strong as spiderman...... he a 20 to 25 tonner.....

Validus
Originally posted by leonidas
now why don't you do something productive val, and place the guys from legion in the list! big grin
I will but I have one last grumble (for now).

Martian Manhunter = Herald level

capt it up
Originally posted by DigiMark007
{edit} Agree with capt about cyke.


thanks.

Scoobless
Originally posted by capt it up
also sabertooth is just as strong as spiderman...... he a 20 to 25 tonner.....

No he isn't.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by capt it up
fury listed wolverines powerlevel over spiderman.....

...which is why we're making the list, not Fury.

stick out tongue

Also, tooth's kind of a one-trick pony even if his strength matches Pete's.

...and also notice I didn't switch Spidey to mid-tier. I'm just trying to gain support. But you and I will get nowhere doing this back and forth.

NiņoAraņa

capt it up
Originally posted by Scoobless
No he isn't.
yes he is. he was originally 10 to 15 tonner and then he got up graded over the years by weapon x.

jizin knows the details better then me, but yes sabertooth is roughly spidermans strength.

capt it up
Originally posted by DigiMark007
...which is why we're making the list, not Fury.

stick out tongue

Also, tooth's kind of a one-trick pony even if his strength matches Pete's.

...and also notice I didn't switch Spidey to mid-tier. I'm just trying to gain support. But you and I will get nowhere doing this back and forth.

fury leveling seem pritty accurate to me......but I see your point.


tooth is a one trick pony? he has superhuman strength, speed , agility, reflex, senses and a healing factor........


true, but if spiderman get changed then a lot of other character should go with him since there all roughly he power level.

UniOmni
HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Darkseid, Infinity-Man

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, cyclops, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Kyle Rayner

Validus
This thread is slightly aggravating. no expression

I agree with Digi that Spider-Man is mid tier though.

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Validus
This thread is slightly aggravating. no expression

I agree with Digi that Spider-Man is mid tier though. so that's 3

DigiMark007
I took Darkseid out of Uni's list (lol). Otherwise, just some additions:

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Darkseid, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Kyle Rayner

draxx_tOfU
BB = herald

Validus
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Kyle Rayner

UniOmni deserves a ban.

pr1983
is it me or has not one person added superman...

cyke could be ambiguous imo... yes he only has one type of power, but his output level of said power is incredibly high... meh, whatever works i guess...

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Validus
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Kyle Rayner

UniOmni deserves a ban. yeah, maybe

capt it up
but people keep assumign ebcuase the power is destructive that makes it superior to other forms of power. also cycke only has the one form of power. There are a lot of people who have many forms of powers and should be classed over him.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by capt it up
Not that great? It extremely powerful. Just becuase it a passive power does not mean it not powerful.
Yes. If he wasn't coupled with artificial durability he could be ripped into a dozen pieces by a simple car wreck. Or get torn apart by a swordsman.

pr1983
Originally posted by capt it up
but people keep assumign ebcuase the power is destructive that makes it superior to other forms of power. also cycke only has the one form of power. There are a lot of people who have many forms of powers and should be classed over him.

it has nothing to do with it being constructive or destructive... so i'm not one of those people... i just said the output level was very high i.e. its a high level of power...

that's all... erm

Validus
Cyclops and Logan are both low end mid tier IMO. So is Sabretooth.

Man I'm such a radical.

capt it up
though the power not even his he gets it from some were else and it jsut comes out of him self.........

capt it up
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Yes. If he wasn't coupled with artificial durability he could be ripped into a dozen pieces by a simple car wreck. Or get torn apart by a swordsman.
the thing is it heals so fast that would not happen as seen with DP.........

pr1983
Originally posted by Validus
Cyclops and Logan are both low end mid tier IMO. So is Sabretooth.

Man I'm such a radical.

laughing, yes, you are...

Originally posted by capt it up
though the power not even his he gets it from some were else and it jsut comes out of him self.........

how does that even matter... at all...

Disappear
nate grey may need to be higher. he was ascending the multiverse at the end of his series, after all.

also, sabretooth's original strength was that of wolverine's, proportionately increased with his size difference. he was upgraded by graydon creed's organization, if i recall correctly, and weapon x, but i'd hardly say he's at luke cage or spider-man's strength level. he's more of a beast level, which is only a handful of tons tops.

capt it up
Originally posted by pr1983
laughing, yes, you are...



how does that even matter... at all...
that would mean it not his power...........

capt it up
Originally posted by Disappear
nate grey may need to be higher. he was ascending the multiverse at the end of his series, after all.

also, sabretooth's original strength was that of wolverine's, proportionately increased with his size difference. he was upgraded by graydon creed's organization, if i recall correctly, and weapon x, but i'd hardly say he's at luke cage or spider-man's strength level. he's more of a beast level, which is only a handful of tons tops.

no he was originally 10 to 15 tons and was upgraded further. he always been a lot stronger then beast.......

pr1983
Originally posted by capt it up
that would mean it not his power...........

the power comes from him to affect the world around him... that's more than enough for me... hell, would you say hulk using an extradimensional source to augment his strength and durability means its not his power either?

Symmetric Chaos
What about Skyfather level beings?

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What about Skyfather level beings?


SKYFATHER
Huc

capt it up
Originally posted by pr1983
the power comes from him to affect the world around it... that's more than enough for me... hell, would you say hulk using an extradimensional source to augment his strength and durability means its not his power either?
no sicne the powers is from with in him. cyclopes power actaully form another demensions of source which he opens that allows the power to come out.......

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
SKYFATHER
Huc

But I mean it seriously.

There must be some heros and villians that are around skyfather level.

Validus
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But I mean it seriously.

There must be some heros and villians that are around skyfather level.
You'd need a level in between Herald and Skyfather.

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But I mean it seriously.

There must be some heros and villians that are around skyfather level.

Squirrel girl? stick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Validus
You'd need a level in between Herald and Skyfather.

I guess.

But with the limit at Heral level you have to exclude people like DarkSeid, Thanos, DoctorStrage etc

pr1983
Originally posted by capt it up
no sicne the powers is from with in him. cyclopes power actaully form another demensions of source which he opens that allows the power to come out.......

its within him? it doesnt come from nowhere...

what about superman? he absorbs solar energy and uses it to make him stronger, faster and use heat vision...

what about green lanterns? the ring has all the power, but its driven by the users will...

there are dozens of heroes you could make the same argument for...

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by Validus
You'd need a level in between Herald and Skyfather.

Sub-Skyfather level?

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by capt it up
no sicne the powers is from with in him. cyclopes power actaully form another demensions of source which he opens that allows the power to come out.......
Green Lanterns use power that isn't self generated. Wolverine's adamantium isn't self generated. Ironman's suit isn't just extra skin.

capt it up
Originally posted by pr1983
its within him? it doesnt come from nowhere...

what about superman? he absorbs solar energy and uses it to make him stronger, faster and use heat vision...

what about green lanterns? the ring has all the power, but its driven by the users will...

there are dozens of heroes you could make the same argument for...

very true.

nevermind then.

pr1983
Originally posted by capt it up
very true.

nevermind then.

stick out tongue

UniOmni
Originally posted by Validus
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Kyle Rayner

UniOmni deserves a ban.

You sir, live in a green hued bubble of ignorance.

And the level between herald and skyfather is above the top tier.

Then again, i don't believe that herald level is synonmous with top tier.

capt it up
Originally posted by pr1983
stick out tongue

well you did not know that boxing was a type of martial arts.......... stick out tongue

Disappear
Originally posted by capt it up
no he was originally 10 to 15 tons and was upgraded further. he always been a lot stronger then beast.......

that may have been true before he became the mirror of wolverine. once he was conceptualized in that manner, he became wolverine+ in all manners. he was bigger, stronger, could heal just the same, and the biggest difference was that he was driven entirely by his killer instincts while wolverine constantly kept them in check. that is how his character was imagined to be once he made it into x-men comics. he wasn't a 10 tonner, he was just strong enough to be noticeably better than logan. that was the entire concept of the character. he was upgraded, yes, but he isn't at spider-man's level.

and beast was possessed of class 70ish strength at one point, so he hasn't "always" been stronger. i would hesitate to say he's at all stronger even now, with beast's strength still ambiguously low.

capt it up
Originally posted by Disappear
that may have been true before he became the mirror of wolverine. once he was conceptualized in that manner, he became wolverine+ in all manners. he was bigger, stronger, could heal just the same, and the biggest difference was that he was driven entirely by his killer instincts while wolverine constantly kept them in check. that is how his character was imagined to be once he made it into x-men comics. he wasn't a 10 tonner, he was just strong enough to be noticeably better than logan. that was the entire concept of the character. he was upgraded, yes, but he isn't at spider-man's level.

and beast was possessed of class 70ish strength at one point, so he hasn't "always" been stronger. i would hesitate to say he's at all stronger even now, with beast's strength still ambiguously low.
when was beast 70 tons?


no sabertooth was made to be spidermans strength level back then or higher. He fist fought mrs. marvel hit for hit.

He foguht omega red to a stand still showing to be just as strong.

when he fought spiderman it seem as if sabertooth was actaully the stronger of the two

he has always been show as spidermans level of strength or higher pre up grades.

Disappear
beast was exposed to a brand corporation retromutagen, the touch of pestilence, and a kiss from infectia in rapid succession, which caused his power level to settle remarkably higher than his classic level. he was sending shockwaves through the street just by pounding on it, a classic thing move. the writers and editors at the time mentioned later that they meant for beast's power increase to remain permanently at thing-level but it was quickly forgotten and severely downsized without explanation by future creative teams.

and sabretooth jobs as much as wolverine. just because logan went pound for pound with namor doesn't mean he's a 100-tonner. the sabretooth/wolverine constrast was always closer to a spider-man/venom than a batman/superman.

capt it up
Originally posted by Disappear
beast was exposed to a brand corporation retromutagen, the touch of pestilence, and a kiss from infectia in rapid succession, which caused his power level to settle remarkably higher than his classic level. he was sending shockwaves through the street just by pounding on it, a classic thing move. the writers and editors at the time mentioned later that they meant for beast's power increase to remain permanently at thing-level but it was quickly forgotten and severely downsized without explanation by future creative teams.

and sabretooth jobs as much as wolverine. just because logan went pound for pound with namor doesn't mean he's a 100-tonner. the sabretooth/wolverine constrast was always closer to a spider-man/venom than a batman/superman.

umm wolverine stabbs namor not punches. saberooth was punching mrs. marvel and it had nothing to do with jobbing. He always been shown to be amazingly strong.


also venom is like a class 60. so ya it would make sence that wolverine/sabertooth is like spiderman/venom.

venom is far stronger then spiderman.

actaully I ehard venom is 80 tons now.

DigiMark007
Bumping the actual list, and also adding a category (barring objections). Other random additions.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

...

I'm tempted to bump Alan Scott and Doomsday (certain versions) to the Sub-Skyfather category.

And honestly, I'm fine with Spidey being considered upper-level enhanced. Because bumping him to mid-tier would mean bringing along a lot of others.

darthgoober
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Bumping the actual list, and also adding a category (barring objections). Other random additions.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Darkseid, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

...

I'm tempted to bump Alan Scott and Doomsday (certain versions) to the Sub-Skyfather category.

And honestly, I'm fine with Spidey being considered upper-level enhanced. Because bumping him to mid-tier would mean bringing along a lot of others.
You've got Darkseid listed as both a HERALD and SUB-SKYFATHER.

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by darthgoober
You've got Darkseid listed as both a HERALD and SUB-SKYFATHER.

True Darkseid and Avatar Darkseid...313

DigiMark007
Fixed

Symmetric Chaos
If Strange goes in SubSkyfather Fate should probably be there too.

darthgoober
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fixed
Just wait, if nvr notices this, he'll come in hear screaming about how Infinity Man should be sub skyfather, and DS should be over Odin. laughing out loud

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If Strange goes in SubSkyfather Fate should probably be there too.

True, true. Also added.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by DigiMark007
True, true. Also added.

Maybe you should remake this thread so that you can edit the begining rather than a list thats mid way through the thread.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Maybe you should remake this thread so that you can edit the begining rather than a list thats mid way through the thread.

Meh, maybe eventually. But there will likely be lots more additions and I also don't want to step on leo's toes. But that will be something to consider in the future.

Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

Symmetric Chaos
Would the HighEvolutionary be Herald or SubHerald?

UniOmni
Originally posted by Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

I mostly agree, but where's Kyle Rayner in the street bracket? smile

And Dr.Strange is now fighting ninjas, so he's next to Rayner as well.
And Stardust belongs in the above the top tier bracket.

He's not exemplary, except for his uber durability and regeneration. That's all.

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Would the HighEvolutionary be Herald or SubHerald?

Herald level.

But then again, I'm not sure...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/evolve2.png

capt it up
Originally posted by Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

bruenor and wulgar would be enchanced as well.

Grimm22
Originally posted by Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster

I pretty much agree except, I would say Cap is enhanced compared to the rest of the guys in Street

DigiMark007
Hell, Guenwyvar is standard equipment for Drizzt....I could probably make a case for him at mid-tier.

But I won't.

shifty

capt it up
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hell, Guenwyvar is standard equipment for Drizzt....I could probably make a case for him at mid-tier.

But I won't.

shifty
lol but then that not really his abilities, but rather his partners.

also the cat overrated most fo the other companions including drizzt would defeat the panthe rin one on one combat, but the cat still bad ass.

the panther is a tiger also......tiger's are so bad ass.

capt it up
Originally posted by Grimm22
I pretty much agree except, I would say Cap is enhanced compared to the rest of the guys in Street
I actaully agree. though he likly simply the top tier street.

Symmetric Chaos
SilverSamurai for high Enchanced

capt it up
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
SilverSamurai for high Enchanced
hmm.


ya I agree he likly enchanced human though he under the level of the higher people like sabertooth, spiderman, wolverine

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by capt it up
hmm.


ya I agree he likly enchanced human though he under the level of the higher people like sabertooth, spiderman, wolverine

I was just skimming the list of people in enchanced.

DigiMark007
A few additions to Val's most recent one....I'm trying to work in as many indie people as I feel comfortable placing.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Fernus

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

capt it up
digi were would cattibary be place ( bruenor's daughter) ? I figure street level.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by capt it up
digi were would cattibary be place ( bruenor's daughter) ? I figure street level.

...I just wasn't going to list her. Not really worth it imo. Take away his bow and Hawkeye is still hardcore and a good H2H fighter. Take away the bow and Cat is an annoying 4th wheel.

srug

capt it up
Originally posted by DigiMark007
...I just wasn't going to list her. Not really worth it imo. Take away his bow and Hawkeye is still hardcore and a good H2H fighter. Take away the bow and Cat is an annoying 4th wheel.

srug
I so agree some people think she can take wulgar and bruenor with out her bow lol

leonidas
Originally posted by Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion high evolutionary, sphinx, asgardian destroyer, desak, elders of the universe -- except EGO, tanaraq, annihilus

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl disagree with absorbing man and gravitron, count nefaria, gilgamesh,, death metal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Metal_(comics)

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, wrecker, exodus, starhawk disagree with sasquatch -- should be lower

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, namor, box, death's head, crystal, human torch,, jack of hearts, doc samson, classic scarlet witch

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, antman, wasp, yellow jacket, hank pym, kingpin

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, black widow, mockingbird, silver sable, punisher

capt it up
kingpin? no way.

leonidas
Originally posted by capt it up
kingpin? no way.

meh, maybe high end street. he's whooped down a bunch of street guys, so he's hard, but i could say street without trouble.

capt it up
ya street, but enchanced a little high

Evil_Ash
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, maybe high end street. he's whooped down a bunch of street guys, so he's hard, but i could say street without trouble.

He has also gone toe-to-toe with Spider-Man, who has had problems with him.

long pig
Are we saying "potential power" or "on the spot power"?

pr1983
Originally posted by capt it up
well you did not know that boxing was a type of martial arts.......... stick out tongue

touche...

long pig
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Fernus, The Mask

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo Not even spamming but I SOOO disagree that Superman(and his ripoffs) is herald level. Everyone in this level has paraphysical powers, Superman does not.

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)(Mar-Vell is easily herald), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

Disappear
in spider-man's 2004 handbook, venom's listed specifically at 11 tons, establishing that at that point he was just a hair stronger than spider-man if you can get me factual numerical evidence of him being 60-80 tons, go ahead.

sabretooth was originally cited at 900 pounds, which was just a hair over peak human strength both are markedly stronger, sabretooth more so, but he's not pressing 20 tons. i don't think you have the right concept of just how much weight that is for a villain, particularly when terms like 90 and 100-tonner get thrown around all the time. it's just out of his strength range.

capt it up
ya hand books are the sittiest evidence.


actaully logan was originally stated at 500 ton's then they realized how bad the original hand book was and he was moved to 800-2 ton range.

sabertooth was not even in the original hand book........


I am sorry, but hand books are not evidence.....would you like me to list comics were he matches people in 10 ranges with pure strength...

long pig
I've never seen Creed pull off a 20ton feet. His strength varies writer to writer, but I'd give him a 5-10 ton strength rating.

Maybe more. He once grabbed a ten pound iron barbell and crumbled it up into a ball.

capt it up
Originally posted by long pig
I've never seen Creed pull off a 20ton feet. His strength varies writer to writer, but I'd give him a 5-10 ton strength rating.

Maybe more. He once grabbed a ten pound iron barbell and crumbled it up into a ball.
he a villian his feats don't come as often as most.


when he was simply 10 to 15 ton range he fist fought mrs. marvel to a stand still

he over powered omega red who is 15 tonner.

he had multiable upgrades to his strength since these events. I have limited information on sabertooth solo series, but jinzin can tell you more.

Martian_mind
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), , The Mask

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter,Fernus
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)(Mar-Vell is easily herald), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

Alfheim
Originally posted by Martian_mind
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), , The Mask

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter,Fernus
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)(Mar-Vell is easily herald), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

Cap is enhanced he has the SSS.

Symmetric Chaos
SilverSamurai for enchanced (Class10 strength, teleportation ring, can cut anything but adamantium)

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap is enhanced he has the SSS.

He's enchanced human but still stree level.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
SilverSamurai for enchanced (Class10 strength, teleportation ring, can cut anything but adamantium)



He's enchanced human but still stree level.

That depends on your defintion of street level. You know that Beast and Gambit are classified as enhanced?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alfheim
That depends on your defintion of street level. You know that Beast and Gambit are classified as enhanced?

Beast is well above human peak in several areas and Gambit can make anything he touches explode.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Beast is well above human peak in several areas

So is Cap...... *waits for it*

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alfheim
So is Cap...... *waits for it*

Currently Beast is above even that however. He has an HF, genius IQ, enchanced senses and he's much stronger than Cap is.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Currently Beast is above even that however. He has an HF, genius IQ, enchanced senses and he's much stronger than Cap is.

Well ok but you do know that Cap does not have peak human strength either...same wth his durability. My point is your defintion for street level is that somebody has to be at maximum peak human level. Cap is above that so according to your definiton Cap should be enhanced regardless of what level Beast is on.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok but you do know that Cap does not have peak human strength either...same wth his durability. My point is your defintion for street level is that somebody has to be at maximum peak human level. Cap is above that so according to your definiton Cap should be enhanced regardless of what level Beast is on.

But Cap can't fight evenly with the people on enchanced level.

I was using your definition btw.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But Cap can't fight evenly with the people on enchanced level.

Well he could probably beat Beast soundly for starters.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

I was using your definition btw.

Yeah you're right actually you just thought that Cap was peak human.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well he could probably beat Beast soundly for starters.

Only due to skill not due to power.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Only due to skill not due to power.

Yeah so. That still doesnt stop cap from being above peak human.

xmarksthespot
OCD compelled me to alphabetize and pretty up the most recent list (shuffling or adding one or two). 313

SUB-SKYFATHER
Darkseid, Despero, The Doctor, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange,
The General (Shaggy Man) Ion (current), The Keeper, Mangog,
The Mask, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down)

HERALD
Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Adam Warlock, Alan Scott, Apollo,
Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Captain Marvel (DC),
Doomsday, Firelord, Eradicator, Gladiator, General Zod,
Graviton, Green Lantern, Hyperion, Infinity Man, Lobo, Loki,
Majestic, Mar-Vell, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Morg, Orion,
Quasar, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Stardust, Supergirl, Superman,
Superman Blue/Red, Terrax, Thor

SUB-HERALD
Animal Man, Apocalypse, Aquaman, Black Bolt, Box, Breach,
Cable (FP), Captain Atom, Darkness, Doctor Doom (w/magic),
Doctor Light, Engineer, Exodus, He-Man, Hercules (immortal),
Holocaust, Hulk, Jack Hawksmoor (city), Juggernaut, Invincible,
Karate Kid, Magneto, Mandarin, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan,
Nate Grey, Pitt, Raven, Sersi, Shaman, Steel, Superboy,
Super Skrull, Ultra Boy, Ultron, Union, Vision, Vulcan,
Wonder Woman

MID-TIER
Abomination, Atom Smasher, Beast Boy, Blastaar,
Captain Britain, Colossus, Crystal, Cyborg, Deathlok,
Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Guardian (I), Ghost Rider,
Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Human Torch, Invisible Woman,
Iron-Man, Lightning Lad, Maul, Mimic (eXiles), Mister Sinister,
Ms Marvel, Namor, Nova (classic), Omega Red, Psylocke,
Rachel Summers, Rogue, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Speedfreek,
Starfire, Storm, Thing, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin,
War Machine, Wonder Girl, Wonder Man

ENHANCED
Angel, Azrael, Beast, Bruenor Battlehammer, Bullseye, Cyclops,
Deathstroke, Drizzt Do'Urden, Gambit, Iron Fist, Killer Croc,
Lady Deathstrike, Luke Cage, Midnighter, Morlun, Mystique,
Sabretooth, Spider-Man, Venom, Wolverine, Wulfgar

STREET
Arsenal, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Captain America,
Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,
Nightwing, Moon Knight, Punisher, Swift, Taskmaster, Turok,
Wildcat,

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so. That still doesnt stop cap from being above peak human.

really now when was he ever stated as being above peakhuman........


honestly please tell me were it ever been stated........

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
really now when was he ever stated as being above peakhuman........


honestly please tell me were it ever been stated........

It doesnt have to be stated anywhere????? How much can Namor lift out of water and in water. *waits for it*

starlock
OOps- i made a mistake but i will recover hehe

Is Current ION really sub skyfather,-i love his character but,not according to his new series,and they make it a point to show he balances out the power within him,so its not exactly the same Ion as His fist time as Ion and his feats well?

Newjak
SUB-SKYFATHER
Darkseid, Despero, The Doctor, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange,
The General (Shaggy Man) Ion (current), The Keeper, Mangog,
The Mask, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Doomsday

HERALD
Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Adam Warlock, Alan Scott, Apollo,
Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Captain Marvel (DC),
Doomsday, Firelord, Eradicator, Gladiator, General Zod,
Graviton, Green Lantern, Hyperion, Infinity Man, Lobo, Loki,
Majestic, Mar-Vell, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Morg, Orion,
Quasar, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Stardust, Supergirl, Superman,
Superman Blue/Red, Terrax, Thor,

SUB-HERALD
Animal Man, Apocalypse, Aquaman, Black Bolt, Box, Breach,
Cable (FP), Captain Atom, Darkness, Doctor Doom (w/magic),
Doctor Light, Engineer, Exodus, He-Man, Hercules (immortal),
Holocaust, Hulk, Jack Hawksmoor (city), Juggernaut, Invincible,
Karate Kid, Magneto, Mandarin, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan,
Nate Grey, Pitt, Raven, Sersi, Shaman, Steel, Superboy,
Super Skrull, Ultra Boy, Ultron, Union, Vision, Vulcan,
Wonder Woman, Ronin

MID-TIER
Abomination, Atom Smasher, Beast Boy, Blastaar,
Captain Britain, Colossus, Crystal, Cyborg, Deathlok,
Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Guardian (I), Ghost Rider,
Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Human Torch, Invisible Woman,
Iron-Man, Lightning Lad, Maul, Mimic (eXiles), Mister Sinister,
Ms Marvel, Namor, Nova (classic), Omega Red, Psylocke,
Rachel Summers, Rogue, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Speedfreek,
Starfire, Storm, Thing, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin,
War Machine, Wonder Girl, Wonder Man, Iceman

ENHANCED
Angel, Azrael, Beast, Bruenor Battlehammer, Bullseye, Cyclops,
Deathstroke, Drizzt Do'Urden, Gambit, Iron Fist, Killer Croc,
Lady Deathstrike, Luke Cage, Midnighter, Morlun, Mystique,
Sabretooth, Spider-Man, Venom, Wolverine, Wulfgar

STREET
Arsenal, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Captain America,
Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,
Nightwing, Moon Knight, Punisher, Swift, Taskmaster, Turok,
Wildcat,

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
It doesnt have to be stated anywhere????? How much can Namor lift out of water and in water. *waits for it*

why does that matter........


capt never been referrence as beyond peakhuman......


ever. even in his own dam comics........

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
why does that matter........


capt never been referrence as beyond peakhuman......


ever. even in his own dam comics........

My point is Namor has been refernced as his strength level being below class 100 for YEARS... I dont know about now....but we know that he is class 100 because of his feats.

Caps strength feats for starters put him beyond peak human.

Newjak
Oh and just because I want to say how I rate power levels.

I have three classes that are redivided into three subgroups each.

Top-Tier:
High Top-tier: Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer
Middle Top-tier: Superman, Thor
Low Top-tier: Hulk, Juggernaut

Mid-Tier:
High Mid-tier: Ironman, Magneto, Namor
Medium Mid-tier: Thing, Ms Marvel
Low Mid-tier: Venom, Rhino

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier: Deathstroke, Sabertooth, Spiderman
Mid Low-tier: Captain America, Kingpin
Low Mid-tier: Robin, Bucky

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
My point is Namor has been refernced as his strength level being below class 100 for YEARS... I dont know about now....but we know that he is class 100 because of his feats.

Caps strength feats for starters put him beyond peak human.

namor never ben refferenced in his comics as being less then 100 tons.......big difference..........

leonidas
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler

looks pretty good. maybe a couple fuzzy picks. i DO think supes is herald, lp, but i DO question whether aquaman is actually sub-herald though . . . maybe mid-tier?

here are a few for people to try and categorize:

fallen one
extremis ironman
storm
prof x
emma frost
1M characters
vandal savage
bane
arsenal
damage
quicksilver
flash
black tarantula
wendigo
hyperstorm
cobalt blue (flash villain)
zauriel
magenta
shade (DC)
brainiac
hank henshawe
nightcrawler
creeper

lots more out there. smile

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
namor never ben refferenced in his comics as being less then 100 tons.......big difference..........

Yeah well how can Cap be peak human, when he constantly has strength feats that are beyond peak human ie 1000lbs.

Obvoulsy the comic was wrong. Hell Wolverine has been knocked out by a deer, so that means we should take that seriously too?

Validus
Originally posted by Newjak
Oh and just because I want to say how I rate power levels.

I have three classes that are redivided into three subgroups each.

Top-Tier:
High Top-tier: Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer
Middle Top-tier: Superman, Thor
Low Top-tier: Hulk, Juggernaut

Mid-Tier:
High Mid-tier: Ironman, Magneto, Namor
Medium Mid-tier: Thing, Ms Marvel
Low Mid-tier: Venom, Rhino

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier: Deathstroke, Sabertooth, Spiderman
Mid Low-tier: Captain America, Kingpin
Low Mid-tier: Robin, Bucky
This is what I was alluding to on Page 1.

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah well how can Cap be peak human, when he constantly has strength feats that are beyond peak human ie 1000lbs.

Obvoulsy the comic was wrong. Hell Wolverine has been knocked out by a deer, so that means we should take that seriously too?
llogan no stated to be taken down by deers......not to mention logan getting koed by a deers bad writting just like capt doing beyond peakhuman things.......


capt stated as peakhuman in comics and hand books.....

capt never been stated in either as beyond peakhuman........

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
llogan no stated to be taken down by deers......

You are deliberatly not getting my point. The point is regardless of wether its a statement or an event just because it happens in a comic doesnt mean that it should be taken seriously...get it?


Originally posted by capt it up

capt stated as peakhuman in comics and hand books.....

capt never been stated in either as beyond peakhuman........

So what im gonna have to repeat myself again? Cap has loads of feats beyond peak human, especially in the strength range. Therefore anybody that says that Cap is peak human in bio or a comic is talking rubbish.

Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick)

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
You are deliberatly not getting my point. The point is regardless of wether its a statement or an event just because it happens in a comic doesnt mean that it should be taken seriously...get it?




So what im gonna have to repeat myself again? Cap has loads of feats beyond peak human, especially in the strength range. Therefore anybody that says that Cap is peak human in bio or a comic is talking rubbish.

it stated many many times that capt a peakhuman......all the tiem actaully.......

it his character he was designed to be a peakhuman and he has been stated since then to be a peakhuman........not really up for debate my friend


well capt been stated consistently in comcis as peakhuman.... he was designed as a peakhuman.........


capt strength feats are rubbish.........1,100 pounds is not impressive......

capt it up
oh and capt is street level not enchanced.........

Newjak
Originally posted by Validus
This is what I was alluding to on Page 1. Yeah well I actually did it stick out tongue

Alfheim
Originally posted by capt it up
it stated many many times that capt a peakhuman......all the tiem actaully.......

it his character he was designed to be a peakhuman and he has been stated since then to be a peakhuman........not really up for debate my friend

well capt been stated consistently in comcis as peakhuman.... he was designed as a peakhuman.........


That doesnt matter because his feats exceed peak human consistently through the years. DD has been stated as being athletic and his feats exceed athletic also.


Originally posted by capt it up


capt strength feats are rubbish.........1,100 pounds is not impressive......



Thats not the point. He did reps with 1100 which means his minimum under no duress is 1500. Regardless of wether you think its crap or not that is superhuman strength.

Originally posted by capt it up
oh and capt is street level not enchanced.........

What the **** do you call SSS. Oh yeah and Cap has been described as being enhanced as well.

leonidas
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul

what about current electro (heheh -- 'current')?

Alfheim
Taskmaster is enhanced?

Disappear
chamber beat omega red with rocks once. that doesn't mean chamber + rocks = 15 tons of strength. a weaker character beating a stronger character, even in a straight fist-fight, is not a comic rarity. and just because the weaker character wins, that doesnt mean the definition of his or her strength level automatically changes.

the "handbooks are shitty evidence" defense works when you have contrasting, factual evidence to dispute them. in all of sabretooth's appearances, has he performed feats of outright superhuman strength rivaling 25 tons? and, if he has, were these from the time when super-strength was actually defined, or from when daredevil could throw 400 pounds across a room? you have to take into account the context of the comic and the time period when relating it to the current day and trend.

Validus
Circe being Sub Herald is iffy. She has it all over top tiers.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow

Alfheim
Originally posted by Disappear
chamber beat omega red with rocks once. that doesn't mean chamber + rocks = 15 tons of strength. a weaker character beating a stronger character, even in a straight fist-fight, is not a comic rarity. and just because the weaker character wins, that doesnt mean the definition of his or her strength level automatically changes.

the "handbooks are shitty evidence" defense works when you have contrasting, factual evidence to dispute them. in all of sabretooth's appearances, has he performed feats of outright superhuman strength rivaling 25 tons? and, if he has, were these from the time when super-strength was actually defined, or from when daredevil could throw 400 pounds across a room? you have to take into account the context of the comic and the time period when relating it to the current day and trend.


I totally agree.

leonidas
Originally posted by Alfheim
Taskmaster is enhanced?
i'd say low end. he's done well against multiple street folk simultaneously. he had some low showings as well, but in general, when written well, i'd say he's above typical street given his powerset.

and once again -- the list is NOT perfect. there are grey areas between levels.

on a seperate note: to ADD levels in the hierarchy would just make things more complex and would not necessarily solve any problems. people would just argue someone was HIGH street, instead LOW street . . . if someone WANTS to further subdivide groups, be my guest. a complete, 100% perfect list was not my intent. rather, i wanted to group people who were seen as RELATIVELY similar in overall powersets.

so far, it looks pretty good. i don't think anyone is REALLY out of whack. maybe a person could be a level lower or higher, but pretty good so far, imo.

leonidas
Originally posted by Validus
Circe being Sub Herald is iffy. She has it all over top tiers.

i wasn't TOTALLY sure, in her case. i recall her kicking ww and black adam's arses, but i thought she was amped, somehow. if you think she could match heralds, you'd prolly know better than me. erm

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow

____________________________________________

the current list. smile

leonidas
Originally posted by leonidas
here are a few for people to try and categorize:

extremis ironman
prof x
emma frost
vandal savage
bane
damage
quicksilver
flash
black tarantula
wendigo
hyperstorm
cobalt blue (flash villain)
zauriel
magenta
shade (DC)
brainiac
hank henshawe
nightcrawler
creeper

lots more out there. smile

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by leonidas
i wasn't TOTALLY sure, in her case. i recall her kicking ww and black adam's arses, but i thought she was amped, somehow. if you think she could match heralds, you'd prolly know better than me. erm

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow

____________________________________________

the current list. smile

I would say Darkseid is at least Sky Father. Being sub doesn't make sense sense his main Enemy, High father is a skyfather and had to combine with 4 others just to engage him. I also see Wonder Woman, Dr. Light, and Dr. Polaris in the Sub Herald Catagory. WHat the hell? Wonder Can take a majority against Firelord, Terrax, Nova. and A Few against Even Morg who tends to brawl. Dr. Light and Dr. Polaris. Dr. Polaris can play with the planet's Fields like we play with cards. ANd Dr. light pwns green lanterns. I also see Fernus as a Herald? WHAT? HOw is Supergirl in the Herald Catagory and WW is a Sub Herald? There are almost no DC characters in the sub Skyfather Catagory. And some of them should be there. DS is a sky father. ALan Scott is Herald lvl. Where is the Infinity Man? Waverider? Metron? Desaad? FireStorm Elemental? SOmeone has Circe from DC as Subherald? OMG. WHAT in GODs name? Circe who put a spell over all the sky father's and pantheons of DC. who Got a power boost from Neron after that? Someone please tell me what is going on here?

phillipan
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, AEGIS

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, ORKA, HUMBUG, SPIDERWOMAN, ARACHNE, ARANA

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, BLACK CAT, CATWOMAN, ECHO, MISTY KNIGHT, SHANG CHI, COLEEN WING, BLACK WIDOW


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orka_%28comics%29
Link to Orka

nvrbeenwthagirl
I also see someone has Gog as Subskyfather. Considering that the Kingdom actually exist, We must assume he is retconned back into his original origin of the power of the Quints. When does a sub sky father pierce thru the barriers of hyper time?

Accel
Originally posted by Newjak
Oh and just because I want to say how I rate power levels.

I have three classes that are redivided into three subgroups each.

Top-Tier:
High Top-tier: Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer
Middle Top-tier: Superman, Thor
Low Top-tier: Hulk, Juggernaut

Mid-Tier:
High Mid-tier: Ironman, Magneto, Namor
Medium Mid-tier: Thing, Ms Marvel
Low Mid-tier: Venom, Rhino

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier: Deathstroke, Sabertooth, Spiderman
Mid Low-tier: Captain America, Kingpin
Low Mid-tier: Robin, Bucky
I actually kind of like this system right here. It seems better organized and more accurate to relative power-levels.

capt it up
Originally posted by Alfheim
That doesnt matter because his feats exceed peak human consistently through the years. DD has been stated as being athletic and his feats exceed athletic also.






Thats not the point. He did reps with 1100 which means his minimum under no duress is 1500. Regardless of wether you think its crap or not that is superhuman strength.



What the **** do you call SSS. Oh yeah and Cap has been described as being enhanced as well.
true though DD also had a radar sense.........


no he did it once. sayign he rep 1,100 is a lie since he was only shown putting it up once.......


sss makes him peakhuman.........

also when was he described as enchanced.........

Alfheim
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd say low end. he's done well against multiple street folk simultaneously. he had some low showings as well, but in general, when written well, i'd say he's above typical street given his powerset.

Yeah but that still dont make him enhanced. I just thought by def enhanced meant having metal bones are having some arftifical enhancement of some sort. I guess a talent could be enhncement....hell I guess maybe shang chi is enhanced as well.


Originally posted by leonidas

and once again -- the list is NOT perfect. there are grey areas between levels.

on a seperate note: to ADD levels in the hierarchy would just make things more complex and would not necessarily solve any problems. people would just argue someone was HIGH street, instead LOW street . . . if someone WANTS to further subdivide groups, be my guest. a complete, 100% perfect list was not my intent. rather, i wanted to group people who were seen as RELATIVELY similar in overall powersets.

so far, it looks pretty good. i don't think anyone is REALLY out of whack. maybe a person could be a level lower or higher, but pretty good so far, imo.

Its all good. big grin

Originally posted by capt it up



no he did it once. sayign he rep 1,100 is a lie since he was only shown putting it up once.......



Capt you moron when people work out they dont do just one rep they are supposed to do something like 10. You dont go to the Gym and workout on weights by doing one rep.

Thats the third time you called me a liar **** off and dont respond to my posts. I cant be assed to respond to you're other points.

Newjak
Originally posted by Accel
I actually kind of like this system right here. It seems better organized and more accurate to relative power-levels. Boom Leo cool

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