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Now before Rex or Ush close this, I searched for such a topic, and nothing came up, except for the one barring the Ancient Sith. However this one includes Ancient Sith, and pretty much everybody, whether they be Jedi, Sith, Planets, Yuuzhan Vong, insanely powerful bounty hunters etc.. So anyways, just post your top ten.

1.) DN Luke




No one else, Luke's Godly powers are able to disintegrate all others and wipe them from existence. If only Chuck Norris would fight him.

Luke thought he knew the power of the force...until he met Chuck Norris who proceeded to roundhouse kick him with such FORCE he kicked him back to his mother's womb.

Thus the Force died.

lol, i forgot to put that! No but seriously, this thread is headed for arguing, not really debating, being as no one will put the same list up and no one will concede their points. I'll give it a try and its just a rough draft as I'm sure it will be flawed.

1. Luke
2. Jacen/Sidious
3. Jacen/Sidious
4. Yoda
5. Revan
6. Anakin/Vader
7. Bane
8. Dooku
9. Mace
10....I dont know...

The Force:

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen
4. Kyp
5. Yoda
6. Revan
7. Bane
8. Kun
9. Vader
10. Dooku

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
lol, i forgot to put that! No but seriously, this thread is headed for arguing, not really debating, being as no one will put the same list up and no one will concede their points. I'll give it a try and its just a rough draft as I'm sure it will be flawed.

1. Luke
2. Jacen/Sidious
3. Jacen/Sidious
4. Yoda
5. Revan
6. Anakin/Vader
7. Bane
8. Dooku
9. Mace
10....I dont know... Good list, though mines

This is force mastery

Luke
Sidious and Jacen
Yoda, revan and exar kun
Vader
Bane
Dooku
Mace

I wouldn't put Jacen above Kyp, Yoda, Sidious, or Revan. His vast knowledge surpasses everybody including Luke, but that doesn't make him uber powerful.

I'd say the list should go something like this, personally.

1. Darth Nihilus.
2. Zonama Sekot.
3. Darth Sion.
4. Revan.
5. Luke Skywalker.
6. UnuThul.
7. Kyp Durron.
8. Darth Malak.
9. Exar Kun.
10. Darth Sidious.

Why is Sion above Revan?

NEWAYS, who cares? These topics are supremely stupid, nobody agrees with each other, so really whats the point?

Sion should be above anybody really, given he can't actually be killed through combat. I only put Zonama Sekot and Nihilus above him, because while they can't kill Sion, I doubt that Sion can kill either one of them either. I mean one's a fricking planet, and the other possesses far too much strength for Sion to handle.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Sion should be above anybody really, given he can't actually be killed through combat. I only put Zonama Sekot and Nihilus above him, because while they can't kill Sion, I doubt that Sion can kill either one of them either. I mean one's a fricking planet, and the other possesses far too much strength for Sion to handle.

Yes Sion can be killed, by simply convincing him to die, which Revan who was noted to be extremely charismatic and a man who both: Has a connection to Kreia and who Sion has a deep seeded hate for, he'd be able to convince Sion to die. And not only that there's a pretty obvious gap in power that Revan has over him

"Sion should be above anybody really, given he can't actually be killed through combat."

Really, you're working under absence of proof = proof of absence when discussing whether Revan's more powerful. The fact that Sion was powerful enough to achieve such an insane feat speaks for his power being beyond Revan's, imho.

And even though Revan may possibly be able to break Sion's will to live and beat him like that (really, breaking someone's will through combat shouldn't even technically be allowed in these versus threads), only a handful would be able to do such a thing, and this list is in relation to everyone.

Again, one ability doesn't equate to being a god, see the "Best Female Jedi" topic (which you've yet to respond to)

Again, you're working under the absence of proof = proof of absence fallacy. LOL.

No, genius I'm going by ingame evidence which shows Sion to be not so hot with him getting beaten by the Exile 5 times in a row, his dismal display of force abilities, his slave devotion to Kreia and anything associated with her, him bowing to Traya again and the fact that each time he rises he grows substantially weaker and more fatigued.

Noobaris proves his stupidity yet again. A simple jedi like the Exile destroyed Sion and his will, but everyone who is more powerful than him can't? Noobaris do yourself a favor and stop embarassing yourself.

If you are basing your list on Force strength, Nebaris, you are indeed quite wrong. You can't claim that Sion's "immortality" is nothing more than the depth of his hatred and willpower; in fact, as I recall, there has been no quotes or evidence made in favor that Sion is anything uber in the Force. The Exile dominated him completely, so in a similar situation, a master manipulator such as Traya, Lumiya, or Sidious would be able to replicate the same feat quite easily.

The presence of Malak and UnuThul on your list also has me curious, as Advent has uberannihilated any argument that proves UnuThul to be anything more than a weakling by Jedi standards, whose sole claim to fame was when the Killiks empowered him through the Force. And, as I recall, when Luke decided to get serious - he put him down. Malak is nothing special, either. His greatest achievement was being empowered by the Star Forge, and yet Revan managed to own him there, even when Malak could siphon the life energy from other Force users to replenish himself. Therein, he's nothing special either.

In "power" and Force strength, my list is the most accurate. Luke, Sidious, Jacen, and Kyp all dominate the list.

I forgot about Kyp...my bad...

How are Kyp and Jacen above Revan in force abilities exactly?

How is Revan above them? I don't know either.

Logically speaking, Revan can't be any more powerful than Yoda, as a quote from the omniscient narrator in a G-canon source (the RotS novelization) confirms that Yoda was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". I would personally put Revan slightly beneath Yoda and Sidious, but above Mace and Count Dooku. That still makes him outrageously powerful.

But, we have Jacen - who is confirmed by the omniscient narrator in one of the Legacy of the Force books (I think it's "Bloodlines", but don't quote me on that" to be second only to Luke. Kyp also agrees that Jacen is second only to Luke, and pushes for him to ascend to masterhood. That would put Jacen a fair bit above Revan, and let's not forget that Jacen also withstood and held his own against Lumiya's Force phantom of Luke, which was described by the omniscient narrator as "a fair match for the real Luke".

As for Kyp, Kyp was able to overpower a post-DE Luke and put him in a coma - for one. Secondly, didn't he also manipulate a black hole easier than Luke himself? I'd say such feats and that his potential was (wrongly) mistaken to be superior to Luke's own does imply that he has a fair bit of strength about him.

Escape, I've read bloodline and all it did was put Jacen second only to Luke in the New Jedi Order. Personally I believe Kyp has done a lot more to show that his force abilities and raw power surpass Jacen.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, I've read bloodline and all it did was put Jacen second only to Luke in the New Jedi Order. Personally I believe Kyp has done a lot more to show that his force abilities and raw power surpass Jacen.

Bingo. Second only to Luke, meaning that Kyp is neither. He is, thus, weaker than Jacen.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo. Second only to Luke, meaning that Kyp is neither. He is, thus, weaker than Jacen.

What does that have to do with Yoda or Revan, who in my book are superior to Jacen and Kyp.

I think he means that if he is second only to Luke, then only Luke is ahead of him, meaning Yoda and Revan are not above him...

Again, Jacen is second to Luke in regards to the NJO, that's all.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, Jacen is second to Luke in regards to the NJO, that's all.

That means that Jacen is ahead of Kyp in the Jedi Order, Darth Sexy. And Yoda is ahead of Revan.

Yea but you put Jacen and Kyp ahead of Yoda and Revan, while I believe Revan and Yoda surpass them both.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea but you put Jacen and Kyp ahead of Yoda and Revan, while I believe Revan and Yoda surpass them both.

Hmm. Tomorrow, perhaps, we could debate it. I'm willing to see both sides.

Originally posted by Tangible God
1.) DN Luke




No one else, Luke's Godly powers are able to disintegrate all others and wipe them from existence. If only Chuck Norris would fight him.

I refuse to achnowledge the so called Luke Skywalker character that developed after the final movie, I shall go with George Lucas in that respect.

I don't understand why these kind of discussions have to be brought up a million times. I guess some people just don't know how to make a good mature thread like me.

1. all of the jedi and sith combined..

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, genius I'm going by ingame evidence which shows Sion to be not so hot with him getting beaten by the Exile 5 times in a row, his dismal display of force abilities, his slave devotion to Kreia and anything associated with her, him bowing to Traya again and the fact that each time he rises he grows substantially weaker and more fatigued.

AC I'm not going to address every minor point given that I'm posting between work outs here, but even if Sion sucks Major ass without the 'invincibility' ability, he still can't technically be killed through combat, so I think he should still be damn high based on that alone. I really don't think the fact that people can persuade him to kill himself should be taken into account, given it's more personality related than combat related. Now getting beat by The Exile so many times does make him look pretty bad, but for all you know The Exile was a beast in combat (given what we know, she likely was). And I really don't see how you view his obedience to Traya a lack of power or ability, given he loved her more than anything else in the world.

Gideon, technically post KotOR Revan isn't a Jedi. That is, the Revan who likely skyrocketed in power due to his regained memories. I'd say he's definitely beyond Yoda. Oh and if you're referring to the line in the RotS novelisation, that was most likely Yoda's own admission, so it's not infallible (I would go into detail, but I'm pretty sure we've discussed it before, and we drew to a standpoint where there' no possible way of saying whether it was coming from the omniscient narrator or Yoda).

Who cares if he can't be killed via combat. It's pretty clear that anybody superior to him can break his will, so he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the top.. And the exile was a beast in combat? Wtf are you talking about? Nothing even remotely suggests that, so thank you for yet another baseless assumption.

All right, because I hated KotoR (both of them), I really didn't pay attention to the "love" between Sion and Traya. Is this a son-mother kind've love or a I "I have the hots for old women" kind've love?

It was the "I have the hots for old women" kind've love.

And Sexy, The Exile did defeat Traya, which has got to support her being damn powerful.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It was the "I have the hots for old women" kind've love.

And Sexy, The Exile did defeat Traya, which has got to support her being damn powerful.
Except for the fact that Traya never truly wanted to kill the Exile, and her defeat at the hands of the exile doesn't make the exile uber powerful.

Where was it said that she never wanted to kill the Exile?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Where was it said that she never wanted to kill the Exile?

Because she loved the exile, I guessed you missed the whole point of KOTOR II

Sexy, clearly you missed the whole point behind the speech she gave before fighting him. She had loved her more than anything in the entire world, and would have killed the entire world for her, but The Exile's actions throughout KotOR 2 and the person she had become had made her disappointed in her, and she no longer possessed that kind of love for her. Ask yourself Sexy, if Traya loved her so much, why would she even begin attacking her? She was actually quite clearly going for the win, which was made obvious when she used her levitating sabers trick; one doesn't play to their strengths (which is what traya was doing with such a deadly and unorthodox technique) when holding back.

By the way, wasn't Sion able to cut off Traya's hand with such speed and skill that she wasn't even able to react to it?

Edit - The Exile has also canonically mastered multiple forms, which is pretty impressive, and being a partial wound in the force is much harder to sense than regular beings. The stuff she does throughout KotOR2 was pretty impressive too, and the experience she gains (a hell of a lot of real life battle experience, including some against fellow force users) during the game would have molded her into a pretty awesome warrior, too. The fact that she resisted Malachor V just like Revan did speaks pretty heavily for her will, as well. Really, Sion being outclassed by ther Exile isn't a strike against Sion, it just speaks well for The Exile. Traya also considered her the greatest pupil she had ever trained (which includes Revan).

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It was the "I have the hots for old women" kind've love.

That's kind've gross; I personally think Palpatine and Traya would make a lethal couple.

Lol, I was kidding, that would be insanely gross, and yeah, they would be a kickass team.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Lol, I was kidding, that would be insanely gross, and yeah, they would be a kickass team.

No, I meant lethal to each other, lmao. I bet that they'd focus their efforts on trying to kill the other. Then again, Traya had - really - decent and noble goals. Palpatine's more of a bastard.

Lol, so true, Palpatine's just a plain old evil son of a b1tch.

No, its more the "Screaming for attention" mother/son kinda relationship, Sion is like the red headed step child constantly vying for the attention of "mommy" but keeps getting put on the back burner by the superior siblings(Revan, The Exile) and when that happens he gets pissed.

And the KOTOR comics are starting to heavily imply that the characters Lucien Draay and Kreynda are infact Sion and Kreia, that would make them mother and son and coincidentally they kinda hate each other.

For real? I haven't read the latest issues, but I think I know who you're talking about, and I swear he's like her butler.

More then the "love" for The Exile it was a test if the Exile couldn't strike her down then she wasn't ready and in that sense was a failure, but I do agree she wasn't holding back.



Thats what we call "acting" Kreia allowed Sion to harm her then she forced her pain on the Exile through the force, by doing this she made herself invaluable to the Exile because in a sense since they have such a strong bond if Kreia died then so did the Exile (presumably) this of course will make the Exile keep the old hag around and not ditch her on some distant world.



No, she learned them, it never says she mastered them, the most I'd rank her is adept at the 6 forms.


It can be inferred that the great darkness that Revan almost died resisting was dispelled since beings like Mira, Hanharr, a slew of random Dark Jedi, and a bunch of Sith troopers could walk on the planet just fine.



Thats nice, but greatest in what sense? I can be greater then someone and they can still me stronger or smarter then me. And really this comes from an lady who hasn't seen or heard from Revan in almost 10 years do you really think she's in a position to judge?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
For real? I haven't read the latest issues, but I think I know who you're talking about, and I swear he's like her butler.

I'm talking about issue #9 with the great cover of Lucien. The butler is a red herring, sure he looks like Sion but its more of a "what Lucien would become." but lets look at the hints:

He's called a "scion" of an important family

He has the "mommy" issues like "Sion"

There's all this talk of Zayne(whom I think is Nihlius) with his "unique" connection to the force

John Jackson Millar (the author) has said that this story "will" reveal some of the Sith Lords of the games back story.

He's already dabbling with the dark side

This is all speculative guess at this point but Im about 80% sure he will become Sion.

Cool, so surely The Exile should be considered pretty powerful, then. Traya also possessed a unique advantage in that she understood The Exile's complex nature really well, and had studied it, making the Exile easier to sense for her. No one else, except Revan and Nihilus would have that advantage.



Where is this said? I thought that Traya simply thought Sion couldn't sense her, but he could and caught her by surprise with the attack.



That's what I heard from Borbarad (Nai Fohl), but whatever, my bad.



Well we know that it remained there for quote some time since it broke Traya, and that was after The Exile had been there (at the end of the Mandalorian wars), so she had indeed resisted the same darkness, though she didn't seem to 'conquer' it like Revan had.



I have no clue, because I can't remember the context it was said in, but people have argued in the past that she meant power, but whatever, ignore this point, because I can't prove it for sure.



I'm sure she would remember her old student pretty well, I mean ten years really isn't that long.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I'm talking about issue #9 with the great cover of Lucien. The butler is a red herring, sure he looks like Sion but its more of a "what Lucien would become." but lets look at the hints:

He's called a "scion" of an important family

He has the "mommy" issues like "Sion"

There's all this talk of Zayne(whom I think is Nihlius) with his "unique" connection to the force

John Jackson Millar (the author) has said that this story "will" reveal some of the Sith Lords of the games back story.

He's already dabbling with the dark side

This is all speculative guess at this point but Im about 80% sure he will become Sion.

Lol, I think you're looking too far into this. Wasn't it said that Sion's ability (which is what Hazel seems to possess) was unique? I think there's too much support for it being a red hearing.

I'm not doubting that the Exile pretty strong, I could make a case for her, but since she's not allowed in vs. fights it would be pointless.




It's inferred since the bond from that point on, no longer works, the Exile with no fear kills Kreia and doesn't die, so it can be deduced that Kreia was BSing that whole bond crap, especially when you ask the masters about a bond so strong happening so fast they don't know what the hell your talking about.





The Exile wasn't "on" the planet, it was a fleet battle, when the MSG went off it wasn't Malachor she was resisting (and failed) it was all the deaths at that one point screaming out to her in the force.


Considering the last time she saw Revan by her own admission was before the Mando Wars, and given the multitude of power jumps Revan experienced its safe to say she doesn't know Revan's power anymore.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Lol, I think you're looking too far into this. Wasn't it said that Sion's ability (which is what Hazel seems to possess) was unique? I think there's too much support for it being a red hearing.

Nope, its an ability Sion learned from Malachor, at first I thought it was Hazel but then I took into account:

A. Hazel appears MUCH older then Sion does

B. Hazel is MUCH thinner then Sion

C. In game Sion's missing eye isn't red

D. Hazel's mechanical arm extends all the was up to his shoulder where as Sion's only comes to his elbow

E. Sion apparently has real legs

F. Finally, knowing JJM he has a penchant for red herrings (see Squint looking like Malak) and the elusive nature he displays on the Dark Horse forums makes me think he likes to put in red herrings to through off the reader.

Do it, she's crazily underrated.



Lol, since when? Rex was probably not being 100% serious if he said such a thing, and technically she's not much more of an unknown than Revan is, so I don't think she comes under the 'no unknowns' rule.



Nice theory, but it's way out there, and suffers several flaws.

1. I highly doubt Traya would have let Sion attack her, and risk him killing her, just to try and trick The Exile when she could have done so through a number of other methods, which wouldn't have to be so life threatening.

2. I doubt Traya possesses the concentration to project that kind of pain on The Exile while having to suffer getting her hand cut off by Sion.

3. Didn't Traya explain that she doubted the same thing would happen in the future, and that their minds in battle would be focused enough to shield the pain?

4. The bond didn't go away. One of the special feats shared between Traya and The Exile was that any benefit given to one (whether it be stimulants, or force speed etc.) would also be given to the other. No, the bond didn't go away, it seems like Traya's preliminary beliefs about the bond were correct, and that they were able to shield the bad effects given to one another.

But coming to think about it, it may be that Sion simply caught her off guard, so it's not really worth mentioning.



They'd likely never come across a bond so great, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.



OK, my bad, forgot about that.



Well if that's the case, then we can't really take anything she says about Revan too seriously, which includes the 'Heart of the Force' thing and all the other verbal fellations of his force connection. I'm sure she'd have no clue what Revan's then current power level was, but I doubt she would have forgotten anything about her greatest and most loved (before The Exile) pupil.

I thought she was under it along with Ragnos, but if the name ever dropped in a topic, and someone posted "lawlz teh exile sucks! and couldn't be so and so" then I could make my case.



If thats the case then your probably right, I rarely played with Traya in my party because of how weak she is in melee combat.




See the difference with that was she was talking about Revan as a padawan since the Exile's question was "What was Revan like as a student." in this case she the only source we have on Revan's early life.




Exactly, but still greatness is subjective, Revan can be stronger then her by leaps and bounds but she can still be greater and based on her appearance in KOTOR 2 and what she's done for the galaxy, she is.

Updated:

1. Darth Sion - can't be killed through combat.

2. Zonama Sekot - a fricking force sensitive planet, almost impossible to harm, and has some pretty awesome raw capabilities.

3. Darth Nihilus - raw power to drain a planet full of force sensitives, can't be sensed by the force, and is immune to direct force attacks.

4. Revan - defeated SF Malak (who was powered up by an entire race) two consecutive times (during KotOR), and then went through a major power surge after regainign his lost memories (post KotOR).

5. Luke Skywalker - manipulated a dovin basal, and owned UnuThul.

6. UnuThul - powered up by an entire race of force sensitives.

7. SF Darth Malak - "powered up by an entire race of force sensitives."

8. Jacen Solo - can create force bubbles that can block turbolaser blasts, gave Luke a run for his money in combat, can manipulate loops in the force, and can become completely invisible and unsensable in the force.

9. Kyp Durron - manipulated Dovin Basals with more ease than Luke.

10. Darth Sidious - was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes could see for a long period of time, and was so powerful that the sheer energies being let off by him in combat were powerful enough to kill nearby stormtroopers.

This list is purely based on who's generally more versed to win in these versus threads, from a combat standpoint.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:


This point has been defeated each time so I don't know why you waste text.

2. Zonama Sekot - a fricking force sensitive planet, almost impossible to harm, and has some pretty awesome raw capabilities.


Can be sensed in the force and defeated by anybody who can loop out of the force, aka Luke and Sidious who are automatically ahead of him.

4. Revan - defeated SF Malak (who was powered up by an entire race) two consecutive times (during KotOR), and then went through a major power surge after regainign his lost memories (post KotOR).

5. Luke Skywalker - manipulated a dovin basal, and owned UnuThul.

6. UnuThul - powered up by an entire race of force sensitives.

7. SF Darth Malak - "powered up by an entire race of force sensitives."

8. Jacen Solo - can create force bubbles that can block turbolaser blasts, gave Luke a run for his money in combat, can manipulate loops in the force, and can become completely invisible and unsensable in the force.

9. Kyp Durron - manipulated Dovin Basals with more ease than Luke.

10. Darth Sidious - was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes could see for a long period of time, and was so powerful that the sheer energies being let off by him in combat were powerful enough to kill nearby stormtroopers.

This list is purely based on who's generally more versed to win in these versus threads, from a combat standpoint.
Your list is shit as usual.

Just like your adeptness at using the quote feature.

Once again, Nebaris, if this list is based on "power", then Sion isn't top ten material. The Exile is above him, and she's not in the top ten most powerful Force users.

"This list is purely based on who's generally more versed to win in these versus threads, from a combat standpoint."

If everyone based their list on this, Sion would always be #1, and it's generally what I like to base my list on.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
"This list is purely based on who's generally more versed to win in these versus threads, from a combat standpoint."

If everyone based their list on this, Sion would always be #1, and it's generally what I like to base my list on.

Then don't expect us to adhere to the delusion that Sion is "uber powerful", when the truth is, people like Luke or Sidious and so forth are simply miles ahead of him in both skill and power. Furthermore, Sion would lose to Traya or Sidious - both are master manipulators and would have his world upside down in a matter of seconds.

Okay...here's my list.

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyp Durron
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Exar Kun
7. Yoda
8. OT Vader
9. Darth Bane
10. Count Dooku

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Okay...here's my list.

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyp Durron
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Exar Kun
7. Yoda
8. OT Vader
9. Darth Bane
10. Count Dooku

Good list. Though, to be fair, Revan would be more powerful than the last three. Not by much, but he would.

Ah yeah...forgot about Revan.

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyp Durron
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Exar Kun
7. Yoda
8. Revan
9. Bane
10. OT Vader

--EDIT--

I only put Kyp above Nihilus for the feat of moving the Dovin Basel.

Eh, I still think Bane should be above Exar, he's displayed much more power.

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyp Durron
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Yoda
7. Revan
8. Dooku
9. Vader
10. Exar Kun

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:

1. Darth Sion - can't be killed through combat.


No, just, no. Darth Sion is not that powerful. In KOTOR the only reason his will must be broken is because your character lacks the power to do anything else. I mean, what would he do against Luke, who can take his head off easily. And even if he could survive that (which I doubt), then he just get's his head force tossed in the other direction while his opponent laughs as Sion's body tries to find it a la POTC2

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
2. Zonama Sekot - a fricking force sensitive planet, almost impossible to harm, and has some pretty awesome raw capabilities.


Meh, just due to it's nature I generally don't include Zonama Sekot in any argument involving force sensitive characters, it's to ambiguous.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
3. Darth Nihilus - raw power to drain a planet full of force sensitives, can't be sensed by the force, and is immune to direct force attacks.


Once again, fail. If nothing else, Nihilus is behind Sidious who's the most powerful sith of all time, not evening mentioning the likes of the Skywalkers

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
4. Revan - defeated SF Malak (who was powered up by an entire race) two consecutive times (during KotOR), and then went through a major power surge after regainign his lost memories (post KotOR).


Revan...ahead of Luke, yoda, Sids? What's more your argument about his memories returning is very lame. In KOTOR they say numerous times that his old mind is for the most part gone, as we can see some memories have come back, but there's nothing to suggest that they'd all return, and even if more did come back it wouldn't matter as he wouldn't use his Sith knowledge again anyway.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
5. Luke Skywalker - manipulated a dovin basal, and owned UnuThul.


This is number one right here, no question, I don't need to parrot the arguments that have been made again and again.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
6. UnuThul - powered up by an entire race of force sensitives.


As soon as Luke got serious, he owned Thul, and that was with Lomi plo was it not?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
7. SF Darth Malak - "powered up by an entire race of force
sensitives."


Again, no. Malak with the SF power still got tooled by Revan

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
8. Jacen Solo - can create force bubbles that can block turbolaser blasts, gave Luke a run for his money in combat, can manipulate loops in the force, and can become completely invisible and unsensable in the force.


Needs to be higher up on the list, possibly number 2.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
9. Kyp Durron - manipulated Dovin Basals with more ease than Luke.


Again, needs to be higher up.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Updated:
10. Darth Sidious - was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes could see for a long period of time, and was so powerful that the sheer energies being let off by him in combat were powerful enough to kill nearby stormtroopers.


Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, that you didn't even put him in the top 5 shows how lame your list is.

Odd, for someone who constantly rants about the greatness that is Bane I'm surprised that he didn't make your list.

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Ragnos
4. Yoda
5. Revan
6. Kun
7. Bane
8. Nihilus
9. who cares
10. who cares

Pwned61 = Lightsnake.
Good to have you back buddy.

Well, I'm happy to see that some of Lighsnake has rubbed off on me after all this time

And seriously, Neb I believe it is, do you mean what you say or do you just say it to piss people off because you know that your wrong?

Originally posted by Pwned61
No, just, no. Darth Sion is not that powerful. In KOTOR the only reason his will must be broken is because your character lacks the power to do anything else. I mean, what would he do against Luke, who can take his head off easily. And even if he could survive that (which I doubt), then he just get's his head force tossed in the other direction while his opponent laughs as Sion's body tries to find it a la POTC2
If disintegrating Sion's body was so easy, Exile could have done that with her Saber. The problem is that Sion's body remains joined due to the immense power of the Dark Side that he seems to utilize to do so. The only way to defeat Sion is to convince him to give up his life.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Once again, fail. If nothing else, Nihilus is behind Sidious who's the most powerful sith of all time, not evening mentioning the likes of the Skywalkers
Nihilus can eat anyone for breakfast unless someone is a Wound in the Force.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Revan...ahead of Luke, yoda, Sids? What's more your argument about his memories returning is very lame. In KOTOR they say numerous times that his old mind is for the most part gone, as we can see some memories have come back, but there's nothing to suggest that they'd all return, and even if more did come back it wouldn't matter as he wouldn't use his Sith knowledge again anyway.
His memories did returned after the events of KOTOR and he thus decided to contend with the issue of the True Sith by himself.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Again, no. Malak with the SF power still got tooled by Revan
The dumbest comment so far. Actually it is stated in the offical blog entry of Darth Malak in SW Blogs section, that his duel with Revan on Star Forge was of titanic proportions or an Epic one.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, that you didn't even put him in the top 5 shows how lame your list is.
I agree that the list made by Apollo Cloud is joke. Siidous is the best.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If disintegrating Sion's body was so easy, Exile could have done that with her Saber. The problem is that Sion's body remains joined due to the immense power of the Dark Side that he seems to utilize to do so. The only way to defeat Sion is to convince him to give up his life.


I never said it would be easy, Sion is certainly not your average dark side practioner, I simply mean that for someone like Luke, or any of those that fall into the top ten, it wouldn't be hard. What's more it seems that all it takes to break his morale is to defeat him enough in combat, in KOTOR he become disheartened just by his inability to defeat the Exile.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Nihilus can eat anyone for breakfast unless someone is a Wound in the Force.


Perhaps, but the problem here is that his power comes completely from this one rather tricky technique that at the very least Luke would be able to counter (which is why he shouldn't be placed above him), sans his drain technique his raw power, while nothing to laugh about, still isn't on par with Luke or Sidious.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

His memories did returned after the events of KOTOR and he thus decided to contend with the issue of the True Sith by himself.


Where does it say that ALL his memories came back? I remember them saying that he was remembering some things, and that his memories prompted him to leave known space, but where do they indicate that it all came back.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The dumbest comment so far. Actually it is stated in the offical blog entry of Darth Malak in SW Blogs section, that his duel with Revan on Star Forge was of titanic proportions or an Epic one.


Yet, don't forget that in the end he was beaten, even when powered up, by Revan who while a powerful individual, doesn't stack up against Luke, Sidious, Kyp, Jacen, so Malak isn't even a blip on the radar. And a fight being Epic doesn't prove much of anything.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree that the list made by Apollo Cloud is joke. Siidous is the best.

well, that's a given.

Once again, pit Sion against any decent manipulator, and he's screwed. Furthermore, his "skills" aren't that hot at all.

Originally posted by Gideon
Once again, pit Sion against any decent manipulator, and he's screwed. Furthermore, his "skills" aren't that hot at all. Just get an ysalimari to walk by, Sion's dead.

Hence why Thrawn would kick his ass.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just get an ysalimari to walk by, Sion's dead.

This is true.

Originally posted by vader11
1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyp Durron
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Yoda
7. Revan
8. Dooku
9. Vader
10. Exar Kun Wtf O.o

His list up till #5 is good...but some kind if mental trainwreck happened and Exar Kun was put beneath Revan and Dooku....

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyle Katarn
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Yoda
7. Exar Kun
8. Revan
9. Dooku
10. Vader

1. Luke.
2. Sidious.
3. Jacen Solo
4. Yoda
5. Revan
6. Exar Kun
7. Dooku
8. Mace
9. Vader
10. Bane

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Aenon Jurtis
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. Kaja Sinis
6. Mace Windu
7. Ben Skywalker
8. Plo Koon
9. Anakin Skywalker
10. Ce Ce Denowai

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Jacen Solo
4. Kyle Katarn
5. Darth Nihilus
6. Yoda
7. Revan
8. Exar Kun
9. Dooku
10. Vader

Originally posted by Darth Sweers
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Aenon Jurtis
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. Kaja Sinis
6. Mace Windu
7. Ben Skywalker
8. Plo Koon
9. Anakin Skywalker
10. Ce Ce Denowai



That's a list from SS.com ...



http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/Secretus74/thch_lolfag.jpg

Originally posted by Darth Sweers
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Aenon Jurtis
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. Kaja Sinis
6. Mace Windu
7. Ben Skywalker
8. Plo Koon
9. Anakin Skywalker
10. Ce Ce Denowai

Yeah ok you're not aloud to talk.

Where's Darth Rage?

He's in Hickory, North Carolina ..

1. Luke
2. Palpatine
3. Jacen
4. Yoda
5. Kyp
6. Exar Kun
7. Revan
8. Kyle Katarn
9. Vader
10. Dooku

ew

hmmm very tough

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Exar Kun
3. Revan
4. Palpatine
5. Yoda
6. Mace Windu
7. Obi wan Kenobi
8. Anakin Skywalker
9. Count Dooku
10. Mandalor (i know he isnt a jedi but....)

Your opinions on my list would be great thanks

in no particular order:

luke skywalker
jacen solo
kyp durron
corran horn
kyle katarn
darth sidious
exar kun
lord nyax
unuthul
lomi plo

lol @ Mandalor btw

Originally posted by xatl
hmmm very tough

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Exar Kun
3. Revan
4. Palpatine
5. Yoda
6. Mace Windu
7. Obi wan Kenobi
8. Anakin Skywalker
9. Count Dooku
10. Mandalor (i know he isnt a jedi but....)

Your opinions on my list would be great thanks Most of them are in wrong order.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
I'd say the list should go something like this, personally.

1. Darth Nihilus.
2. Zonama Sekot.
3. Darth Sion.
4. Revan.
5. Luke Skywalker.
6. UnuThul.
7. Kyp Durron.
8. Darth Malak.
9. Exar Kun.
10. Darth Sidious.

Damn, that's almost close to what I was gonna use.

Originally posted by Darth Sweers
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Aenon Jurtis
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. Kaja Sinis
6. Mace Windu
7. Ben Skywalker
8. Plo Koon
9. Anakin Skywalker
10. Ce Ce Denowai

Oh god, we got a SS believer here!

Luke
Sidious
Jacen
Kyp
Yoda
Revan
Kun
Kyle
Dooku
Vader
Something like that

It is very difficult to rank Jedi or Sith in terms of power.

However, the top 10 most powerful people according to my POV are:

1) Luke Skywalker

2) Darth Sidious

3) Yoda

4) Darth Revan

5) Exar Kun

6) Darth Nihilus

7) Kyp Durron

8) Darth Traya

9) Darth Bane

10) Mace Windu

This is list is based on various factors like:

- Knowledge of the Force.
- Saber Combat Skills.
- Experience.
- Force Feats.
- Victories against high profile opponents.

Sith:
sidious
exar
ragnos
simus
sadow
kressh
sith lady that wiped out the life of all of ambria with one force attack
other strong ancients from the golden age
nihilus
freedon nadd
ulic
revan
traya
sion
bane
vader
tyranus
kasim
maul
malak

Originally posted by Count Makashi
1. Luke.
2. Sidious.
3. Jacen Solo
4. Yoda
5. Revan
6. Exar Kun
7. Dooku
8. Mace
9. Vader
10. Bane

uh yea, how is Dooku over Vader and Mace?

Jacen Solo over Revan and Kun? Please.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
uh yea, how is Dooku over Vader and Mace?

Out of all other posts, you chose mine to reply, my list is at least decent, some others are ridiculous and how are Mace and Vader over Dooku.

Ok, let's see: sidious? Of course. Kun? Alright. Ragnos? Discussible but still acceptable. Now, Simus? What the hell did Simus to deserve this place? What about kresh and shadow? Also, you put "strong" ancient siths over revan, who was showed quite stronger then 1 of the strongest ancient sith lords. By the way, kasim over MAUL or Malak? Hmm... By the way, what about mace windu, obi-wan or, more then that YODA? Or are you making a sith only list?

By the way, traya and sion stronger then Malak? Then where was them while conquered the galaxy? Also, sion stronger then vader, bane or tyranus?

I mostly disagree with this list.

well theres the fact that he was the only ancient that had enough balls to ever challenge ragnos and survive the encounter, and the fact that after being decapitated, was able to keep himself alive solely through the power of the force as just a head (ergo <<<<<<<< midichlorian count)



well, after ragnos, they were the next two most powerful of the ancients in the golden age of the sith (bare in mind a weaker sith sorceress was able to wipe the life out of an entire planet with a single attack), sadow himself possessing knowledge that turned future neo sith into gods, and having the ability to concentrate his power into a few sith chrystals and blowing up a star with force lightning, as well as later doing something similar by just clasping his hand (likely using his sith amulet), and kressh was pretty much his biggest rival



how exactly?



why not exactly? what we know about him: his exceptional saber mastery and experience, his incredible force defence, his insane reflexes, speed and stamina easily put him above malak, and firmly put him above maul



yeah, i thought the "sith:" might have given you a hint...



traya? either searching for clues as to why revan turned to the darkside or already turned herself and learning the sith ways at malachor

sion? still only an apprentice prior to learning at malachor aka the planet sized storehouse of darkside teachings



the insane willpower, and hatred (which added together pretty much is the darkside) as well as the formidable saber skills as well as the experience gained killing jedi as well as the added advantage of being able to cheat death and hold his body together certainly suggests so

Having the balls to challenge Ragnos doesn't give you a high position on the hierarchy. He got his head chopped off.

and survived...

anyways simus was known for his wisdom, it was why he still had sway over so many sith lords despite being a head in a jar, so clearly he must have been pretty close to ragman in power to feel that he may even be able to defeat him

plus we also know that he was sadows personal teacher, meaning that his knowledge of sith magic would have in the very least rivaled sadows own

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Out of all other posts, you chose mine to reply, my list is at least decent, some others are ridiculous and how are Mace and Vader over Dooku.

Which is why I chose to reply to yours. You should know better, and yes, some are so ridiculous that a reply isnt even warranted.

And Mace and Vader ARE over Dooku.

How.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
How.

We've been through this. Mace floored Sidious because of Vaapad. The same properties that allowed him to do so also apply to Dooku. Dooku is weaker than Sidious. Ergo, Mace trumps him even harder.

Exactly. And just because ABC arguments don't always work as far as outcomes of duels, power levels are pretty black an white. Vaapad is a huge advantage for Mace, and if he can take out the Sith Lord, he can most certainly take out his weaker apprentice.

And Vader, well he turned Dooku's experience and power into a "joke." Albeit he lost a lot of his potential overall, but he gained YEARS of dark side experience and tutelage from the most powerful Sith Lord in history, thusly giving him immense power.

Why does everyone call the exile a girl? how are you all determining that?

Secondly, why does everyone keep saying Sidious is the most powerful sith lord in history? Where are the sources for that? I thought that in the EU, Exar Kun and Markos Ragnos were more powerful/skilled?

On all of your lists: most of you have great reason's for your placements and it is hard to argue why you put them where they are. I have nothing to add that has not already been stated.

Canon sources confirmed that the Exile is a girl, as did Leeland Chee.



Because he is.



tNEC: "Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history ."

AotC Visual Guide: "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time..."

DESB: "He succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side."



Where are your sources? Ragnos has no feats to his name aside from cowering a bunch of Ancient Sith (which is uber, I'll grant you). Other than that, these were Sith who relied on technology to do anything special. Kun is pretty powerful, but is weaker than Sidious.

Originally posted by Gideon
Where are your sources? Ragnos has no feats to his name aside from cowering a bunch of Ancient Sith (which is uber, I'll grant you). Other than that, these were Sith who relied on technology to do anything special. Kun is pretty powerful, but is weaker than Sidious.

Ruling over the likes of Sadow and Kresh isn't that impressive and we don't know how powerful, the other Sith were.

Yes, it is, actually. Given how capable and powerful they were with technology. Ragnos is far from being a weak Sith, even with the minimal shit we have on him.



Yes we do. With the aid of technology, they were uber. On their own? Yeah, logic points to them being pretty much crap.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, it is, actually. Given how capable and powerful they were with technology. Ragnos is far from being a weak Sith, even with the minimal shit we have on him.



Yes we do. With the aid of technology, they were uber. On their own? Yeah, logic points to them being pretty much crap.

But Ragnos had incredible technology too and he probably had more Massasi warriors and ships, because of him being The Sith Lord. And some Sith didn't even try or even think of overthrowing him, like Ludo Kresh. Maybe they were afraid to overthrow him, because he had superior numbers and because some Sith would help him, making it impossible, to defeat him, it could have nothing to do, with him being so powerful in the Force.
I do agree, that he was very powerful, just that i hate, when people say, Ragnos is teh uber, with nothing to back it up, because there is no material on him.

Ragnos is teh uber, when discussing power. Is he an upper level Sith Lord? Of course. He reigned over a civilization of Sith Lords with access to amazing technological aid. Is he on Sidious's level? Hardly.

Where would you put him, on whose level?

Personally i think that the top 15 are:

1- Luke
2- Sidious
3- Yoda

Then, for an order to decide:

Nihilus
Traya
Exar kun
Revan
Bane
Vader
Windu
Dooku
Ragnos
Ullic

and arguably:

Kyp Duron
Jacen

Did i forget someone?

Edited.

My list is going to have some major kinks in it; a really good list requires a lot of thought to take discrepencies and issues into consideration.

1. Luke Skywalker
2. Darth Sidious
3. Yoda
4. Exar Kun
5. Jacen Solo
6. Kyp Durron
7. Darth Vader
8. Darth Revan
9. Mace Windu
10. Count Dooku

No. 1: Ben Kenobi.

Reasoning: Jesus could only last 40 days in the desert. Old Ben lasted a good 25 years. Jesus could return from the dead, a feat Sidious couldn't even achieve, this Old Ben > Jesus and Jesus > Sidious*.

Ok. What do I win?

(*supposedly the most powerful Sith, although I've yet to see something that actually demonstrates these silly ideas of Uncle George)

...I could give you an entire argument about it; Palpatine's exhibited greater feats than any other Sith Lord.

Edit: And he's got the grade-A canon quotes in his favor, too.

1.Luke Skywalker
2.Darth Sidious
3.Darth Nihilus
4.Yoda
5.Exar KUn
6.Jacen Solo
7.Darth Revan
8.Kyp Durron
9.Mace Windu
10.Darth Vader

Mine would be something like that I guess.

Originally posted by Gideon
...I could give you an entire argument about it; Palpatine's exhibited greater feats than any other Sith Lord.

Edit: And he's got the grade-A canon quotes in his favor, too.

So your saying Sidious is bigger than Jesus?

You are aware of what happened to the Beatles when they said that are you?

Originally posted by Gideon
Canon sources confirmed that the Exile is a girl, as did Leeland Chee.



Because he is.



tNEC: "Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history ."

AotC Visual Guide: "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time..."

DESB: "He succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side."



Where are your sources? Ragnos has no feats to his name aside from cowering a bunch of Ancient Sith (which is uber, I'll grant you). Other than that, these were Sith who relied on technology to do anything special. Kun is pretty powerful, but is weaker than Sidious.

thanks bro.

And my sources for Exar Kun and Markos Ragnos is from KOTOR 1 and 2 and Jedi Academy II. (Seriously.)

Originally posted by Gideon
...I could give you an entire argument about it; Palpatine's exhibited greater feats than any other Sith Lord.

Edit: And he's got the grade-A canon quotes in his favor, too.

It makes sense now that I think about it...Sidious not only has great mastery of the dark side of the force, he is extremely charismatic. He probably amassed the greatest "entourage" of any sith...he had the entire freaking empire minus some crafty rebels!!!

I am not sure he was the most skilled sith, though. Definitely the most powerful. (I am talking about ruling power.) Isn't there an argument about Sidous' force lightening versus Lord Dooku's lightening? (The larger the arching, the more powerful the sith.) Sids was ahead of Dooku...but what about Revan or others who have wielded the dark side? I thought that this was the way to measure dark side mastery? (I was debating these points before there was a such thing as message boards so I am a little rusty on some of the old debates.)

I've yet to hear any evidence to contradict my "Old Ben > Jesus" therum. Amuse me.

my list is

1. Han Solo
2. Jacen
3. Revan
4. Kyp
5. Traya
6. Ben
7. Luke
8. Sidious
9. Yoda
10. Vader

Trayas really ownly there because of her powers of betrayel mwahahahahah *coughs* sorry bout that

Originally posted by exanda kane
I've yet to hear any evidence to contradict my "Old Ben > Jesus" therum. Amuse me. Please do not troll like this. Some of us are extremely offended by disrespecting Jesus.

Originally posted by Darth Sweers
Please do not troll like this. Some of us are extremely offended by disrespecting Jesus.

Yeah, I guess it isn't really cool to make fun of religions. (Even if your aetheist, you should still get respect for your beliefs.) Really though, it is a personal call.

Han Solo has teh forces? is he teh coolies?

My list, which I will nto back up with proof, is as follows.


1. Luke Skywalker. (Post OT)
2. Revan
3. Darth Sidious
4. Yoda
5. Anakin Skywalker
6. Markos Ragnos
7. Exar Kun
8. Mace Windu
9. Darth Nihilus
10. Widget (You shutup!!! Widget says "Yub yub" which makes him the 10th most powerful!!!)

That's a good think, 'cause Revan isn't more powerful than Sidious.

Originally posted by exanda kane
I've yet to hear any evidence to contradict my "Old Ben > Jesus" therum. Amuse me.

The guy uses a whip once and suddenly he's God in a versus fight.

Originally posted by Darth Sweers
Please do not troll like this. Some of us are extremely offended by disrespecting Jesus.

How am I disrespecting him? I'm praising the guys metal. Aren't you happy perhaps the most important symbol of monothist religion has some integrity?

Well, he might not be on Kenobi's level, but then Alec Guiness was a classicly trained actor.

Originally posted by mattatom
my list is

1. Han Solo
2. Jacen
3. Revan
4. Kyp
5. Traya
6. Ben
7. Luke
8. Sidious
9. Yoda
10. Vader

Trayas really ownly there because of her powers of betrayel mwahahahahah *coughs* sorry bout that Traya might own but Han will shoot her through her head before she tries anything just like with Revan, Yoda, Sidious and Vader.

1.Chewie
As for the rest of the list I would put them down but unfortunately Chewie one shotted them all.

Chewie died, Han didn't. Default win.

*cough*

Fools Chewie is immortal he can create black holes the size of a galaxy by willing it.

Hahahahaha, only Chuck Norris can do that.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Hahahahaha, only Chuck Norris can do that. Chuck Norris is greater than Chewie, but none can match the absolute power of Samuel L. Jackson.

Ehm. Harrison Ford can. One curl of that lip and jackson is out for the count.

Samuel L. Jackson is a pussy, he ruined Windu with that crappy fight against Sidious. That could have been one of the greatest battle ever, yet it turned into a piss of shit fight...

Ok, i believe this is not just is fault, but i have to lay the blame on someone

I don't like Mace Windu's character. He's like loads of characters in the PT, a novelty. The OT had novelty characters, but it had the real ones too match.

No way, Samuel L. Jackson, insults Ford with his black, street, from the hood insults so bad,that Ford goes back to his carpenter days. Dam, why i am not black, then i would have better lines.

I wan't talkin about Windu. I was talkin about Samuel L. Jackson! YES THEY DESERVE TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!

Blasphemy.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
No way, Samuel L. Jackson, insults Ford with his black, street, from the hood insults so bad,that Ford goes back to his carpenter days. Dam, why i am not black, then i would have better lines.

Your quite a racist one aren't you

Samuel L. Jackson is half the icon Harrison Ford is.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Your quite a racist one aren't you

Samuel L. Jackson is half the icon Harrison Ford is.


Not to these kids, I'd be surprised if they even saw the OT. The only official Star Wars pimp (icon) in my book is Lando. No one got the bitches like Calrissian did.

Luke Skywalker
Kyp Durron
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Exar Kun
Marka Ragnos
Mace Windu
Darth Nihilus
Revan
Freedon Nadd

When I speak of Samuel L. Jackson I do not speak of Windu. Jackson could have brought the Galactic Empire to his knees simply by willing it.

Ehm. No. That'd only happen if Tarantino wrote his dialogue. Without that, Sam Jackson's just a black guy.

Tarantino is a director only because he prays to Samuel L. Jackson every night.