Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is Darkseid at his best, from "The Great Darkness Saga".

And "Classic" Ion.



Who takes it?

Yo.

Ion still, but its a great fight.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

Ion still, but its a great fight.




Tazer Yeah, I'm actually not too sure who would take it.

An obvious advantage for Darkseid is his TP...... Do you think Ion could stand up to that?

Originally posted by Galan007
This is Darkseid at his best, from "The Great Darkness Saga".

And "Classic" Ion.



Who takes it?

Ion

Ion to much power

Originally posted by Mider999
Ion to much power Originally posted by Galan007
An obvious advantage for Darkseid is his TP...... Do you think Ion could stand up to that?

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I'm actually not too sure who would take it.

An obvious advantage for Darkseid is his TP...... Do you think Ion could stand up to that?

Im not sure DS could stand up to fighting 7 instances of the same person, as powerful as HE was, all at the same time.

that Ion was new to using TP, but I dont know how well he'd deal with having it thrown against him.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Im not sure DS could stand up to fighting 7 instances of the same person, as powerful as HE was, all at the same time.

that Ion was new to using TP, but I dont know how well he'd deal with having it thrown against him. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.


DS mentally controlled 3 Billion Daxams simultaneously.


IMO his TP could give DS the advantage here..... But I'm not sure.

bump

Depends on if DS fights smart. If he makes his avatars AND uses his superior TP, he can get the wins. He may have to absorb some of Ion's power. IS Ion essential to the Universe? I"d say Ion gets 6-7/10 wins if ION is written to his power lvl when he first came out.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Depends on if DS fights smart. If he makes his avatars AND uses his superior TP, he can get the wins. He may have to absorb some of Ion's power. IS Ion essential to the Universe? I"d say Ion gets 6-7/10 wins if ION is written to his power lvl when he first came out. I guess I still don't see what's going to stop DS from mind-raping Ion instantly.


Is Ion's mind > 3 billion Daxams? (because I never got that impression)

It might be hard to mindrape someone who is one with the Universe.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
It might be hard to mindrape someone who is one with the Universe. But does that ability mean it's impossible to use TP on him?

Originally posted by Galan007
But does that ability mean it's impossible to use TP on him?

Nah, Eternity was comatose or was it galactus. Someone was, Probably both, and they were able to be mind raped and mind repaired. Can't member which tho.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Nah, Eternity was comatose or was it galactus. Someone was, Probably both, and they were able to be mind raped and mind repaired. Can't member which tho. Eternity was put into coma by Magus.

mangus also was holding 5 cosmics cubes when he put eternity into a comotose situation..
darkseid is not as poweful as a cosmic cube imo.
I give darkseid credit for controling 3 billion daximites, but that is far from controlling some one that is on pharallax level of power...
Ion crushes him.

Originally posted by Priest
mangus also was holding 5 cosmics cubes when he put eternity into a comotose situation..
darkseid is not as poweful as a cosmic cube imo.
I give darkseid credit for controling 3 billion daximites, but that is far from controlling some one that is on pharallax level of power...
Ion crushes him. So DS can easily control 3 billion beings whom are each equal to PC Superboy in power, but affecting Ion's mind is totally out of the question?


I'm not saying DS takes the majority or anything, but Ion most definitely would not "crush" him.

Originally posted by Priest
mangus also was holding 5 cosmics cubes when he put eternity into a comotose situation..
darkseid is not as poweful as a cosmic cube imo.
I give darkseid credit for controling 3 billion daximites, but that is far from controlling some one that is on pharallax level of power...
Ion crushes him.

Three Billion Daxamites, who all have will power like M"onel is pretty strong. They are all but resistant to TP. So the feat is really impressive. Plus Kyle is a Human being with Godlike power. Eternity is abstract and has a greater mind if you ask me. It should be easier to mind rape kyle than Eternity.

Willpower isn't a genetic trait.
It's laughable that you'd say so.

Ion rapes this guy, who wasn't even above Silver Age Woden.

Yo.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Three Billion Daxamites, who all have will power like M"onel is pretty strong. They are all but resistant to TP. So the feat is really impressive. Plus Kyle is a Human being with Godlike power. Eternity is abstract and has a greater mind if you ask me. It should be easier to mind rape kyle than Eternity.

except being in a coma doesnt = being mind-raped.

similarly, while controlling 3+bil Daxamites was/is a pretty sweet tp-feat, I have to add that: 1) Daxamites arent know for having especially strong mental resistances (so its not like DS had to really FIGHT them to do it), and 2) theres no info either way that Ion would or wouldnt be affectd by any atk done by tp.

thats the only thing which is an unknown quantity, but in just about everything else Ion (classic) takes this.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

Ion still, but its a great fight.




Tazer
No offence but simply type "Tazer" in your signature.

Ion FTW, he was above Parallax--who destroyed time and speace.

Originally posted by Tazer
except being in a coma doesnt = being mind-raped.

similarly, while controlling 3+bil Daxamites was/is a pretty sweet tp-feat, I have to add that: 1) Daxamites arent know for having especially strong mental resistances (so its not like DS had to really FIGHT them to do it), and 2) theres no info either way that Ion would or wouldnt be affectd by any atk done by tp.

thats the only thing which is an unknown quantity, but in just about everything else Ion (classic) takes this. Unless Ion is completely immune to some of the most powerful TP ever seen, then Darkseid has a good shot at taking him down that way IMO.

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Unless Ion is completely immune to some of the most powerful TP ever seen, then Darkseid has a good shot at taking him down that way IMO.

I wont argue it, but only cuz we dont know how well/badly he do against it; it an arguable point on both sides.




Tazer

What about the OE? How is Ion gonna stop that? And don't say deflect it or dodge it, can't be done.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
What about the OE? How is Ion gonna stop that? And don't say deflect it or dodge it, can't be done.

ummm, so yur saying the OE has ALWAYS hit there target??

anyways, theres always DS simply being put somewhere he cant ever leave.......like at the End of Time -moment where they ditched Doomsday.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



ummm, so yur saying the OE has ALWAYS hit there target??

anyways, theres always DS simply being put somewhere he cant ever leave.......like at the End of Time -moment where they ditched Doomsday.




Tazer

Do you not read DC or something? What the hell do you think Darkseid is? He can just boomtube back from the end of time. And you're asking if the OE always hits? HELL YES IT ALWAYS HITS! It has never missed and it cannot be dodge. And ignore anything written by Loeb to the contrary. Ask anyone here, the OE can't be avoided.

Originally posted by Tazer
I wont argue it, but only cuz we dont know how well/badly he do against it; it an arguable point on both sides. It is arguable for these 2 reasons....


1.) If Ion is totally immune to what was possibly the greatest display of TP in the DCU, then he could take the majority over DS.

2.) If Ion is not immune to Darkseid's TP, then I'd wager DS could take Kyle out pretty easily using that option.

Hold it. Even if he is immune to TP, how the hell is gonna beat the OE?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hold it. Even if he is immune to TP, how the hell is gonna beat the OE? Lets put it this way.

If GDS Darkseid uses the OE, and it finds it's mark..... Then say goodbye to the being on the receiving end.

Thank you. Btw, current DS killed GDS Darkseid. And as previous stated, the OE can't be dodged, evaded, or avoided. You can try to outrun it, but it goes across time, space, and even realities. IT NEVER MISSES.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Do you not read DC or something? What the hell do you think Darkseid is? He can just boomtube back from the end of time. And you're asking if the OE always hits? HELL YES IT ALWAYS HITS! It has never missed and it cannot be dodge. And ignore anything written by Loeb to the contrary. Ask anyone here, the OE can't be avoided.

as far as I knew Supes/Bats was all in continuity, seeing as how the current Supergirl storyline dealt with a dude from Apokolips having a crush on her.

and more to the fact I dont see DS leaving anyplace he gets put if hes butt-bare nekkid......which Ion is quite EASILY capable of doing.




Tazer

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thank you. Btw, current DS killed GDS Darkseid. GDS Darkseid is by far his most powerful version IMO.

Along with mindraping 3 billion Superboy-level beings simultaneously, he switched entire planets from one location to another (mentally).

In addition, he kept Orion as his pet servant which he transformed into a monstrous creature.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And as previous stated, the OE can't be dodged, evaded, or avoided. You can try to outrun it, but it goes across time, space, and even realities. IT NEVER MISSES. Unless you are reading a Loeb comic.

..................Darkseid can make his own damn boomtubes and he can still oneshot Kyle with the OE. And that storyline was PIS and written by Loeb.

Originally posted by Tazer
as far as I knew Supes/Bats was all in continuity, seeing as how the current Supergirl storyline dealt with a dude from Apokolips having a crush on her.

and more to the fact I dont see DS leaving anyplace he gets put if hes butt-bare nekkid......which Ion is quite EASILY capable of doing. Not too sure about that.

After his fight with Orion, DS fought Superboy/girl whom had been empowered by Highfather.

Supergirl punched DS away, and even though he was almost naked, DS seemed to be able to control Boom Tubes, unaided:
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/987383/ds.jpg

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
..................Darkseid can make his own damn boomtubes and he can still oneshot Kyle with the OE. And that storyline was PIS and written by Loeb.

he's never shown the ability to creat BTs all on his own; its pretty much a know fact that theyre generated by the MBs.

where da hell didja get that from??




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not too sure about that.

After his fight with Orion, DS fought Superboy/girl whom had been empowered by Highfather.

Supergirl punched DS away, and even though he was almost naked, DS seemed to be able to control Boom Tubes, unaided:
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/987383/ds.jpg

if U look at the rest of that fight U'll see is WASNT nekkid.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
if U look at the rest of that fight U'll see is WASNT nekkid. The very next page:
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/987400/ds2.jpg


If DS did have tech in order to use his BT's, where did he keep it?

Up his ass?

Originally posted by Galan007
The very next page:
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/987400/ds2.jpg


If DS did have tech in order to use his BT's, where did he keep it?

Up his ass?

Ion for the win.

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
The very next page:

If DS did have tech in order to use his BT's, where did he keep it?

Up his ass?

possibly wired into his clothing......

hey, Ive seen WEIRDER New Gods -tech /shrug

hell, similar thing happened to Mongul pre-C as I recall




Tazer

Darkseid can make book tubes under his own power.
Darkseid doesn't use a motherbox, only New Gods of Genesis use Motherboxes.
His eye beams can also produce the boom effect.

Yo.

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid can make book tubes under his own power.
Darkseid doesn't use a motherbox, only New Gods of Genesis use Motherboxes.
His eye beams can also produce the boom effect.

on Apokolips they have "Father Boxes"




Tazer

Juntai is one of the worst people to argue against on DC stuff. He's one of the best DC guys on the site. If he says Darkseid can make his own tubes, he can make the tubes. And I've seen lackeys use father boxes, but never Darkseid himself.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



on Apokolips they have "Father Boxes"




Tazer Show me Darkseid using a fatherbox

Originally posted by Juntai
Show me Darkseid using a fatherbox

QFT. Egg-****ing-xactly. He's never done it. Desaad has, Granny has, Kalibak has, but never DS himself.

Darksied makes a boom tube with Omega Beams.
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newgods07136hm.jpg

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Juntai is one of the worst people to argue against on DC stuff. He's one of the best DC guys on the site. If he says Darkseid can make his own tubes, he can make the tubes. And I've seen lackeys use father boxes, but never Darkseid himself.
Agree. Juntai sucks.

Originally posted by Validus
Agree. Juntai sucks. You love me.

Yo.

Originally posted by Juntai
Darksied makes a boom tube with Omega Beams.
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newgods07136hm.jpg

ok, U got me w/that scan.......dammit!

of course, I never actually said that DS uses/d a FB, but I'll concede the point.






Tazer

You think that's good, you should check out the respect thread.

Yo.

no need since I doubt theres any other examples of him generating a BT that way.....and he'd still lose this fight.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
and he'd still lose this fight. Based on what?

Your assumption that Ion would be completely immune to Darkseid's TP?

Or your assumption that the OE would be ineffective on him?


hum

Originally posted by Juntai
Darksied makes a boom tube with Omega Beams.
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newgods07136hm.jpg

You know it's serious when Jun starts posting scans!

Originally posted by Juntai
Darksied makes a boom tube with Omega Beams.
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newgods07136hm.jpg



Was Darkseid using a MotherBox as a cell phone?

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Based on what?

Your assumption that Ion would be completely immune to Darkseid's TP?

Or your assumption that the OE would be ineffective on him?

hum

as far as the OE goes, this is assuming he gets hit, and original Ion can literally move across the galaxy either as fast as Barry has, or faster, so avoiding it (even temporarily) is possible.

and as far as that tp-feat goes..........thats simply a coinflip. it may work since Kyle has been taken over mentally b4, but not as Ion. it may not work, since Kyle has managed to fight off a Controller mentally (pre-Ion natch). none of us knows either way since this is a much more powerful Kyle, but how he'd deal w/it is questionable.

and becuz of that Im not considering it.

wat I AM basing my opinion on is the straight -up head to head: and GDS loses that.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
as far as the OE goes, this is assuming he gets hit, and original Ion can literally move across the galaxy either as fast as Barry has, or faster, so avoiding it (even temporarily) is possible.

and as far as that tp-feat goes..........thats simply a coinflip. it may work since Kyle has been taken over mentally b4, but not as Ion. it may not work, since Kyle has managed to fight off a Controller mentally (pre-Ion natch). none of us knows either way since this is a much more powerful Kyle, but how he'd deal w/it is questionable.

and becuz of that Im not considering it.

wat I AM basing my opinion on is the straight -up head to head: and GDS loses that. The tracer beams would be able to follow Ion anywhere.

And Kyle has never fought off TP on GDS Darkseid's caliber.

So to say he could, even though he never has is pure speculation.


Sure Ion would be more resistant to it, but completely immune?

I doubt it.



But do we both agree that it would be a close battle?

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
The tracer beams would be able to follow Ion anywhere.

thats not under dispute, however Kyle can be in 7 places at once. how many has Darkseid EVER fired off at any single time??

Originally posted by Galan007
And Kyle has never fought off TP on GDS Darkseid's caliber.

and GDS has never fought any1 as powerful as original Ion, nor has he ever attempted to use TP on them.

Originally posted by Galan007
So to say he could, even though he never has is pure speculation.

Im not saying he can, but Im not saying he cant either. cuz theres no evidence for speculation either way correct? the MOST U can do here is speculate, and that makes both stances equally valid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Sure Ion would be more resistant to it, but completely immune?

I doubt it.

thats fine, but U assume that he WOULD be affectd, w/o evidence. Im simply saying theres no evidence saying he would or wouldnt; taking a hard stance on either is dumb when theres nothing to support it.

Originally posted by Galan007
But do we both agree that it would be a close battle?

less than close IMNSHO. but thats just *my* opinion. if any1 else feels diff, thats just as good.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
less than close IMNSHO. but thats just *my* opinion. if any1 else feels diff, thats just as good. Less than close?

So REALLY close?

here's a thought, Ion can simply wipe Darkseid out of existance.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Three Billion Daxamites, who all have will power like M"onel is pretty strong. They are all but resistant to TP. So the feat is really impressive.
how are they resistant to TP?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Plus Kyle is a Human being with Godlike power.
We are talking about a GL, their powers are based on will power imo... Plus Kyle is possibly the BEST GL ever. Theirs a chance he would be able to resist Darkseid TP, he'll WILL himself too.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Eternity is abstract and has a greater mind if you ask me. It should be easier to mind rape kyle than Eternity.
Like Jugernaut6666 said, Ion was one with the Universe, essentially he is Eternity.

Originally posted by Galan007
So DS can easily control 3 billion beings whom are each equal to PC Superboy in power, but affecting Ion's mind is totally out of the question?
How is their will power compared to a top tier GL?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not saying DS takes the majority or anything, but Ion most definitely would not "crush" him.
Actually he should be able to crush him..Unless darkseid showed abstract level of power in the GDS, he should be able to rival Ions power..
Teleporting a planet and mind controlling 3 billin beings is still skyfather feat..

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Less than close?

So REALLY close?

no. to me a close fight is 1 that lasts about 19pgs out of a 22pg book; I can see Ion beating him in about 14pgs.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
no. to me a close fight is 1 that lasts about 19pgs out of a 22pg book; I can see Ion beating him in about 14pg. Well that's all indicative on how long the DC writers would need the battle to last.


But I personally feel as though it would be a very close battle.

Ion 10/10

Darkseid is a non factor here.

Yo.

this isnt standard Darkseid however; I wouldnt say GDS-DS is a "non-factor", but I do think he definitely loses.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
this isnt standard Darkseid however; I wouldnt say GDS-DS is a "non-factor", but I do think he definitely loses. I agree DS looses the majority,

But as you said, he is FAR from a non-factor.

He's a non factor.

Seriously...when has Spectre ever showed up and told Darkseid he could pretty much get away with anything he wanted to under his own power?

Spectre can't kill Darkseid. And he can't mess with Darkseid on his own world. Besides, Hal was being very nice about the whole thing. We all know the Spectre usually doesn't operate at his maximum power level most of the time.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He's a non factor.

Seriously...when has Spectre ever showed up and told Darkseid he could pretty much get away with anything he wanted to under his own power? Unless Ion has shown an immunity to the OE, or to some of the most powerful known TP, (which he hasn't).

Then DS is still very much a factor here.


Sure DS wouldn't take the majority or anything, but it's far from a curbstomp in Ion's favor.

Ion crushes any rose colored glasses versions of DS you want to talk about.

That TP feat with the Daxamites is overrated though. When he first took control of them, they were under a red sun so they didn't have powers. When they did have power, DS couldn't maintain control of them for very long. Furthermore, when they all showed up to fight him, he fled.

Originally posted by Validus
When they did have power, DS couldn't maintain control of them for very long. The main reason DS lost control of them, was because he began fighting the others who had been amped up by Highfather, so his concentration on the Daxams dwindled.

It wasn't because his TP necessarily failed him.

Originally posted by Validus
That TP feat with the Daxamites is overrated though. When he first took control of them, they were under a red sun so they didn't have powers. When they did have power, DS couldn't maintain control of them for very long. Furthermore, when they all showed up to fight him, he fled.

He was still controling the minds of 3billion sperate creatures. Thats not a feat that many people can match.

Originally posted by Galan007
The main reason DS lost control, was because he began fighting the others who had been amped up by Highfather, so his concentration on the Daxams dwindled.

It wasn't because his TP necessarily failed him.
IIRC he had fought and defeated Orion at that point. If his TP was so great, he could have simply resumed his control of them. Instead he knew he couldn't stand up to them and fled the fight.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He was still controling the minds of 3billion sperate creatures. Thats not a feat that many people can match.
Saturn Girl

Is she beating Ion too?

Originally posted by Validus
Saturn Girl

Is she beating Ion too?

Eh? No of course not. I was just pointing out that controling 3billion powerless Daxamites is still pretty incredible.

Not saying it isn't but it isn't enough to say he'll beat Ion either. GDS Darkseid was hardcore as shit and I would never say otherwise but this is a bit too far up the ladder for him.

Originally posted by Validus
If his TP was so great, he could have simply resumed his control of them. Instead he knew he couldn't stand up to them and fled the fight. He was weakened from the battles he had with not only Orion, but the beings amped up by Highfather.

All of his former powers wouldn't have been as great as they started out.


Again, DS wouldn't take the majority here, but I don't think it's a stomp in Ion's favor.

Originally posted by Galan007
He was weakened from the battles he had with not only Orion, but the beings amped up by Highfather.

All of his former powers wouldn't have been as great as they started out.
My memory is probably fuzzy since I last read GDS over a year ago but I recall DS waxing all ass that appeared in front of him with the exception of Orion who only managed to last a few pages. I'm not sure you can get a measure on how exhausted he was from that.

Originally posted by Galan007
Unless Ion has shown an immunity to the OE, or to some of the most powerful known TP, (which he hasn't).

Then DS is still very much a factor here.


Sure DS wouldn't take the majority or anything, but it's far from a curbstomp in Ion's favor.

Are you serious?

This is like saying TP can affect Spectre or Thanos with the IG.

It's a non factor.

The OE at it's best *MAY* make Ion feel some pain if it's written to it's upper end extreme...but as soon as that's done DS is dead.

It's 10/10 Ion.

There is NO comparison here.

Originally posted by Validus
My memory is probably fuzzy since I last read GDS over a year ago but I recall DS waxing all ass that appeared in front of him with the exception of Orion who only managed to last a few pages. I'm not sure you can get a measure on how exhausted he was from that. He did beat them,

But once he figured out his control over the Daxams had slipped, he didn't even attempt to fight anymore, because he knew he was weaker.


I do agree that we can't gauge his power 100% accurately, but we can say he was certainly weaker then he started out IMO.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Are you serious?

This is like saying TP can affect Spectre or Thanos with the IG.

It's a non factor.

The OE at it's best *MAY* make Ion feel some pain if it's written to it's upper end extreme...but as soon as that's done DS is dead.

It's 10/10 Ion.

There is NO comparison here. Ahhh,

Gotcha!

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahhh,

Gotcha!

A better battle would have been GDS Darkseid vs current Ion.

I wonder how the "torchbearer" of the corps would handle the OE.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
A better battle would have been GDS Darkseid vs current Ion.

I wonder how the "torchbearer" of the corps would handle the OE. Nah, GDS Darkseid would take that easily IMO.


Current Ion has no feats to put him on GDS Darkseid's level.


I'm not saying he isn't that powerful, I'm just saying he hasn't demonstrated it yet.

Yo.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The OE at it's best *MAY* make Ion feel some pain if it's written to it's upper end extreme...but as soon as that's done DS is dead.

just to play devils advocate here a sec: if its just DS firing Omega BEAMS its a crap-shoot on whether or not Ion will get hurt by it or not.....or if it'll even reach him.

now, if its the Omega EFFECT, then I dont think we've seen any1 ever resist THAT particular effect.




Tazer

The Omega Beams are basically concussive/destructive blasts. And a sub part of the Omega Effect.


And only Superman & Wonder Woman as written by Jeph Loeb have ever resisted, dodged, or not died from the OE.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The Omega Beams are basically concussive/destructive blasts. And a sub part of the Omega Effect.

And only Superman & Wonder Woman as written by Jeph Loeb have ever resisted, dodged, or not died from the OE.

Im only drawing a line between the OBs and the OE: 1 is not necessarily the other unless its specified to be so.

DS hit Doomsday with the OBs as I recall but NOT the OE.




Tazer