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Cool, but damn if you'd kept it at Spiderman or Venom level I would had a huge jump start and maybe, just maybe that would've been enough to make up for my rookieness!

Oh well, its all good still. Count me in, even if I do have to rethink an entirely new strategy!

Originally posted by Entity
Cool, but damn if you'd kept it at Spiderman or Venom level I would had a huge jump start and maybe, just maybe that would've been enough to make up for my rookieness!

Oh well, its all good still. Count me in, even if I do have to rethink an entirely new strategy!
Sorry but everyone was all worked up for an Iron Man level tourney, so that's what I figured I'd shoot for.

Another Tourney?

*waits for this one to go under, too*

Originally posted by Soljer
Another Tourney?

*waits for this one to go under, too*
Hey I was smart about mine. I've already been in contact with several interested parties via PM, so I'm all but positive that there's enough interest to pull this thing off.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I was smart about mine. I've already been in contact with several interested parties via PM, so I'm all but positive that there's enough interest to pull this thing off.

It was a joke. Perhaps I should have added a " ".

I wish you the best of luck, and want to let you know that I'm open to the idea of being a judge if you need one.

Originally posted by Soljer
It was a joke. Perhaps I should have added a " ".

I wish you the best of luck, and want to let you know that I'm open to the idea of being a judge if you need one.
Ohhhh....Ok that's cool.

And I'll take just about ANY help I can get with this thing, so your volunteering to judge is most appreciated.

I'll help any way I can. If not as a judge, then at the very least I'm competing. w00tw00t LET'S ROCK THIS JOINT!

Just so everyone knows Digi, Badabing, and Galan007 will all be helping me with this thing and they all pretty much understand the specifics of the new format and what's likely to be allowed. So if I'm not around to answer an important question try asking one of them, cause they'll probably know the answer.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'll help any way I can. If not as a judge, then at the very least I'm competing. w00tw00t LET'S ROCK THIS JOINT!
Well tr, your welcome to judge or participate, so just do whichever you'd prefer.

sounds promising.

hmm

I'm joining this.

So pre-extremis IM is the only cap? What about magic, or technology?


Edit: Seriously, what are the rest of the caps?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
So pre-extremis IM is the only cap? What about magic, or technology?


Edit: Seriously, what are the rest of the caps?
I'm keeping the ACTUAL caps pretty loose to help keep the loopholes to a minimal. If your looking for examples of acceptable characters though, just take a look at the Meta-Tier(mid tier) section of leo's thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/447233_1-who-better-to-tier-heroes

Are you kidding? That list is full of bulldozer sized holes. you do realize by doing that the drafts will take several days to go through, especially once you go through the lists and realize how many people should be kicked...........?

I'd like to be a judge.

Goober, look that list over again.

This is the latest version of it.

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula, Osiris



I see some serious problems with this list........... nosweat

I'd like to suggest that a no power copying rule be put in.

If you go out of your way to create a monster character and some one else just takes two randoms (ie: Rhino & Psylocke) and a power copier as their third, they essentially get 5 characters powers when they mimic the other guy.

Yay or nay?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Are you kidding? That list is full of bulldozer sized holes. you do realize by doing that the drafts will take several days to go through, especially once you go through the lists and realize how many people should be kicked...........?
I'm just using it as a rough gauge though, anyone that I feel to be inappropriate will be barred no matter where they're placed on it. But it IS useful to get a general idea of the characters to consider.

I say yay. Which means you want to ban Super-Adaptoid and Mimic. And probably Black Alice too.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest


Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula, Osiris nosweat

A good portion of that list looks like someone just dumped our (GLA's) potential picks from DL's tourney into it.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I'd like to suggest that a no power copying rule be put in.

If you go out of your way to create a monster character and some one else just takes two randoms (ie: Rhino & Psylocke) and a power copier as their third, they essentially get 5 characters powers when they mimic the other guy.

Yay or nay?
I'm hesitant to ban power copying outright because I don't want to limit the creative freedom of the participants to much, but I will try to come up with some details as to what is and isn't allowed in that regard. But power copying from your opponent is DEFINITELY not allowed.

Originally posted by Scoobless
A good portion of that list looks like someone just dumped our (GLA's) potential picks from DL's tourney into it.



Christ, they even picked up a few obscure ones (that I never mentioned)

*slightly miffed*

Anyway, I'll do what I can but I've been putting in time-and-a-half on life and it won't let up for at least a few weeks.

Good luck though.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I say yay. Which means you want to ban Super-Adaptoid and Mimic. And probably Black Alice too.

I was meaning characters like Super-Adaptoid who can copy whoever he faces.

Mimic would be ok as he can only copy mutants at half power and would have to dump an ability he already has to do so.

BA is Spectre level and should never have been in consideration for this (or any other) tourney.

I still say we should ban Mimic and super adaptoid. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that the list is messed up.


Didn't know about BA. She was just the only copycat I could think of from DC.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Goober, look that list over again.

This is the latest version of it.

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula, Osiris



I see some serious problems with this list........... nosweat
I see several also, which I'll probably address later in an updated list of banned characters. Anyone that people feel is inappropriate can be PM'd to me(along with the reasons as to why) and I'll go over everything with the people helping me before I make a call on them.

But keep in mind that Iron Man IS a lot more powerful than many give him credit for, so many characters who SEEM to be over the caps really aren't.

Havok, Electro, Guardian, and possibly Booster Gold should be kicked. The Tick.............dicey. He's completely invulnerable, isn't he? nosweat

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Havok, Electro, Guardian, and possibly Booster Gold should be kicked. The Tick.............dicey. He's completely invulnerable, isn't he? nosweat




You really underestimate Ironman if you think those guys should be kicked. (Havok???)


Also, I am kind of confused. Are you saying I could take the body of She-Hulk, the Mind of Tony Stark (therefore also having his amour), and the powers of Invisible Woman?

What about say, the powers of Spiderman? Would I need his body, or would it fall under powers?

Well, current Havok anyway. Apparently according to Mr. Master, Havok is the nexus of realities. He's a god damn abstract. nosweat We had a huge shit fit about Guardian last time, I don't want to go through one again. And sans CIS, in an amalgam, Electro's powers are too good. Booster and the Tick, I dunno.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Also, I am kind of confused. Are you saying I could take the body of She-Hulk, the Mind of Tony Stark (therefore also having his amour), and the powers of Invisible Woman?

What about say, the powers of Spiderman? Would I need his body, or would it fall under powers?
Yeah you could take that combo(or one like it) if you wanted.

Spidey's abilities would be spit between powers and body. Strength, speed and agility would fall under body, but wall crawling, organic webs, stingers, and spider sense would all fall under powers.

Electro's powers hardly ever stop him form being curbstomped by Spider-Man or Venom types .... hell, the guy used to be afraid of Doc Ock.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Well, current Havok anyway. Apparently according to Mr. Master, Havok is the nexus of realities. He's a god damn abstract. nosweat We had a huge shit fit about Guardian last time, I don't want to go through one again. And sans CIS, in an amalgam, Electro's powers are too good. Booster and the Tick, I dunno.

Guardian is not a problem. You just THINK he is

Ironman is more versatile. Whatever. And Havok? It didnt change his power level

Tick has other weaknesses. He's sweet as hell, but anyone who takes him is screwed....no point in banning him.

Guardian should be fine...there were insane PIS circumstances for that Galactus feat, and otherwise he's fine. Box, Mar-Vell, Engineer were the big "controversies" last tourney.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I still say we should ban Mimic and super adaptoid. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that the list is messed up.


Didn't know about BA. She was just the only copycat I could think of from DC.
Super Adaptoid is banned for sure, and Mimic in all likelihood will be as soon as I look into his abilities some more.

Originally posted by Blair Wind


You really underestimate Ironman if you think those guys should be kicked. (Havok???)

what do you mean, blair? don't you know that everyone here at the kmc is an expert and knows exactly how and where everyone should be placed in terms of tiers and powerlevels?

i swear to gawd -- between that embarrassment of a tournament last month and the whiners regarding that list thread (which everyone was more than welcome to add to and comment on, btw) this forum has taken a nasty downward spiral of late.

if you're not part of the solution . . .

goob -- it sounds cool, like i told you in the pm's. i'm still a bit unclear in regards to the armor/equipment rules but frankly, i'm not sure you'll be able to handle some of the babies who will want in, nor am i sure it will actually get going. based on some of what i've seen of late, it will fall apart in the drafting process or the whining will reach a point where you simply shut it down.

Maybe it would be simpler to merely cut out the mind/body/power catagories and just let people mix the characters as is.

Originally posted by leonidas
what do you mean, blair? don't you know that everyone here at the kmc is an expert and knows exactly how and where everyone should be placed in terms of tiers and powerlevels?


oh.....right

The only problem I see on that list is Emma Frost, who gets supremely underrated because Cassandra Nova likes to **** with her head.

Klaw and Mary Marvel are pretty underrated too but I see why they are there.

Alright I guess it's best to handle these one by one...
Originally posted by leonidas
goob -- it sounds cool, like i told you in the pm's.


i'm still a bit unclear in regards to the armor/equipment rules
What don't you understand? PM me a scenario if you have something in mind but don't want to make it public. Or just ask here for general clarification.

Originally posted by leonidas
but frankly, i'm not sure you'll be able to handle some of the babies who will want in, nor am i sure it will actually get going.
Oh I can handle the babies. I'm a pretty patient guy but I'm not afraid to tell them that it's my call and that's the end of it if it becomes necessary. And as for whether or not it gets going...hey maybe maybe not. If there's not enough interest for it to get off the ground then it won't it's that simple.

Originally posted by leonidas
based on some of what i've seen of late, it will fall apart in the drafting process or the whining will reach a point where you simply shut it down.
Don't worry about that. I've got some good people helping me with stuff like character eligibility and I'm great at ignoring whiners, so I feel at least moderately confident in my chances of getting this thing off the ground.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Maybe it would be simpler to merely cut out the mind/body/power catagories and just let people mix the characters as is.



whistling

If Trickers signing up i'll be participating too.




Now Goober,take nothin Tricker says into consideration,this is an evil ploy of his to destroy your tourney.

Kiss my ass martian.

You won't be saying that when your characters lying in a pool of blood before mine begging for mercy.


If thats a scenario you can easily picture it's because thats how all our debates end up,cept we substitute the characters.

Ump-bay

Is this an individual tournament, pairs or team?

Probably individual...no need to have 2 people arguing for 1 amalgam.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Probably individual...no need to have 2 people arguing for 1 amalgam.

Shut up Damn you and your common sense

Can we get a team instead of 1 or two people? Please, please please please. notworthy It would be more fun with teams instead of just one person.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Can we get a team instead of 1 or two people? Please, please please please. notworthy It would be more fun with teams instead of just one person.

But it wouldn't make any sense . . .

So do two amalgam characters. Might complicate things, but think of the combos........... drool

BdH987JJDYs

Hump de Bump!

I agree with Leo some of the whiners will ruin some of it but a good director and some helping judges should keep it going.

And as long as most of the Tourney people are civil about it.

I think many people are forgetting many tourney drafts before all had some of the same bickering as DL's did.

The difference the two things I stated about people being civil and good director.

Just so everyone knows, I'll probably be posting the sign up thread Monday for those that are interested. The reason I haven't posted it yet is because I want to make sure that everyone is fully aware of the rules before entering to reduce the number of potential misunderstandings down the line.

Also, I know I haven't been posting much in this thread up till now, but I DO check it(quite often in fact) so if anyone has any questions about the tourney just post them here or PM them to me.

in.

Bump.

Bump again, since I just posted the signup thread.

is hercules included in this tourney

Originally posted by hunbu04
is hercules included in this tourney
No he's just a little to high on the totem pole for this tournament.

Would Erica be a eligible character for this tourney?

I previously thought she was herald level, but my attempt to use her in Evangels Tourney has shown me that that was SEVEREALLY overrating her.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Would Erica be a eligible character for this tourney?

I previously thought she was herald level, but my attempt to use her in Evangels Tourney has shown me that that was SEVEREALLY overrating her.
Can't say that I'm familiar with her, but if you'll send me a bio I'll check her out and run her by the judges to see what they think.

bump

Originally posted by Scoobless
So would this hypothetical amalgam with Witchblade's mind have the full knowledge and experience required to use Invisible Woman's powers to their full potential?

Or would she just have the powers but no idea how to control them?
She'd be able to use them to their full potential.

By the way, I don't know much about Witchblade, she's just who I happened to think of when coming up with that example. Should she be allowed or no?

If i take Mr. fantastic as body would he still retain his elasticity, making him near invulnerable to physical attack? How about a liquid, energy or smoke body, they banned or not?

Originally posted by Roldz
If i take Mr. fantastic as body would he still retain his elasticity, making him near invulnerable to physical attack? How about a liquid, energy or smoke body, they banned or not?

I was thinking about that myself ... but I think those would all come under the "power" characters abilities.

___________


So far we have:

King Kandy
Martian_mind
TricksterPriest (I think)
Entity
Joey Stacks (Who?)
Blair Wind
Roldz
Scoobless
Newjak
Ethereal
Devil Lance

I have a question.

Now with the mind/body/power bit we know some people will only get some of their powers.

Now the question I have is if this is the case can we pick a character that was picked in a different category for a different power set.

For Example Wolverine. If you take his body you would get his what physical abilities right.

If you take his mind you get his fighting skill

If you get his power you get his Healing Factor right.

So what if someone picked Wolverine for their mind character could I say pick him for my Power character as well?

Or once someone gets picked in any catergory they are done?

Originally posted by Newjak
I have a question.

Now with the mind/body/power bit we know some people will only get some of their powers.

Now the question I have is if this is the case can we pick a character that was picked in a different category for a different power set.

For Example Wolverine. If you take his body you would get his what physical abilities right.

If you take his mind you get his fighting skill

If you get his power you get his Healing Factor right.

So what if someone picked Wolverine for their mind character could I say pick him for my Power character as well?

Or once someone gets picked in any catergory they are done?

I can see DarkCrawler rushing in and choosing Namor for all 3 catagories now.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I can see DarkCrawler rushing in and choosing Namor for all 3 catagories now.

He would loose then

Originally posted by Newjak
He would *loose then

*lose

loser

couple above questions posed that i'd love to hear answers to.

ps--does SPEED fall under the body category as well? ie -- if someone chose northstar, do they get his power? i ask because agility is a body attribute, so speed seems like it should be as well since it's a 'physical' attribute.

Ok folks sorry I've been away for a bit , but I'm back with SOME answers. But before I do there's something else that needs to be addressed. People seem to be getting hung up on the exact wording of the rules rather than the spirit behind them, and we should really try to avoid that. My system isn't perfect(neither was the old amalgam system though), and because of that problems will arise concerning the details of some characters. So sometimes we'll probably have to quirk the rules for certain characters just to get by. I understand that everyone wants to make the best character possible(and there's nothing wrong with that), but let's try to keep loopholing due to the "Letter of the Law" to a minimal. With that in mind...

1. Reed Richards could really go either way and because of that guys like him will be a little tricky to deal with. If you take him as your "Body" character you WILL get his basic durability. But if your wanting to use his offensive capabilities as well your going to have to draft him into the "Powers" category.

As a basic rule of thumb, your "Body" comes with any abilties that don't require mental effort to control. So if it's automatic(like someone shooting Reed and his body stretching in automatic response) then it's "Body". If it DOES require mental control(like Reed stretching to wrap around an opponent) then it falls under the "Powers" category. Because of this, I've decided to alter a previous ruling I made via PM where I classified Healing Factors as a "Power". Under the new system it WILL fall under the "Body" attribute as long as it doesn't require any mental effort on the characters part.

2. Superspeed for the most part will be handled as a "Power". If you look at someone like Quicksilver, his speed isn't a result of a his having better physical attributes than a normal human, it's rather the result of his mutant power. However someone like Hulk who had greater than normal speed because of advanced musculature WOULD retain his speed because in that case it's an actual physical attribute.

3. Things like Colossus's abilities will STILL fall under the "Body" category, even though he actually has to consciously change into his armored form.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok folks sorry I've been away for a bit , but I'm back with SOME answers. But before I do there's something else that needs to be addressed. People seem to be getting hung up on the exact wording of the rules rather than the spirit behind them, and we should really try to avoid that. My system isn't perfect(neither was the old amalgam system though), and because of that problems will arise concerning the details of some characters. So sometimes we'll probably have to quirk the rules for certain characters just to get by. I understand that everyone wants to make the best character possible(and there's nothing wrong with that), but let's try to keep loopholing due to the "Letter of the Law" to a minimal. With that in mind...

1. Reed Richards could really go either way and because of that guys like him will be a little tricky to deal with. If you take him as your "Body" character you WILL get his basic durability. But if your wanting to use his offensive capabilities as well your going to have to draft him into the "Powers" category.

As a basic rule of thumb, your "Body" comes with any abilties that don't require mental effort to control. So if it's automatic(like someone shooting Reed and his body stretching in automatic response) then it's "Body". If it DOES require mental control(like Reed stretching to wrap around an opponent) then it falls under the "Powers" category. Because of this, I've decided to alter a previous ruling I made via PM where I classified Healing Factors as a "Power". Under the new system it WILL fall under the "Body" attribute as long as it doesn't require any mental effort on the characters part.

2. Superspeed for the most part will be handled as a "Power". If you look at someone like Quicksilver, his speed isn't a result of a his having better physical attributes than a normal human, it's rather the result of his mutant power. However someone like Hulk who had greater than normal speed because of advanced musculature WOULD retain his speed because in that case it's an actual physical attribute.

3. Things like Colossus's abilities will STILL fall under the "Body" category, even though he actually has to consciously change into his armored form.

How about somone like Atom Smasher would his size increasing abilities be considered body or powers ?

Originally posted by Devil Lance
How about somone like Atom Smasher would his size increasing abilities be considered body or powers ?
It sounds like it would fall under the "Powers" section IMO, but if you can prove that it's more of a "Body" type thing, I'll allow it there.

What's the limit on sorcery?

Wasn't magic banned? or was that the other IM tourney?

Other one. I don't know what the limit is, but magic is allowed.

How many useful sorcerer types are even at IM level? anyone who can cast the bands of Cyttorak is immediately above this level ... same goes with a lot of other spells.

Originally posted by darthgoober


As a basic rule of thumb, your "Body" comes with any abilties that don't require mental effort to control. So if it's automatic(like someone shooting Reed and his body stretching in automatic response) then it's "Body". If it DOES require mental control(like Reed stretching to wrap around an opponent) then it falls under the "Powers" category. Because of this, I've decided to alter a previous ruling I made via PM where I classified Healing Factors as a "Power". Under the new system it WILL fall under the "Body" attribute as long as it doesn't require any mental effort on the characters part.

2. Superspeed for the most part will be handled as a "Power". If you look at someone like Quicksilver, his speed isn't a result of a his having better physical attributes than a normal human, it's rather the result of his mutant power. However someone like Hulk who had greater than normal speed because of advanced musculature WOULD retain his speed because in that case it's an actual physical attribute.


So say if i pick Warpath/Velocity and use him/her as a body, i can still use there superspeed since its attributed to stronger physique..

How about say Bastion using him as a mind/tech chars, do i get his Nimrod upgrade..

I should really just pmed you but... ehh just an examples..

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok folks sorry I've been away for a bit , but I'm back with SOME answers. But before I do there's something else that needs to be addressed. People seem to be getting hung up on the exact wording of the rules rather than the spirit behind them, and we should really try to avoid that. My system isn't perfect(neither was the old amalgam system though), and because of that problems will arise concerning the details of some characters. So sometimes we'll probably have to quirk the rules for certain characters just to get by. I understand that everyone wants to make the best character possible(and there's nothing wrong with that), but let's try to keep loopholing due to the "Letter of the Law" to a minimal. With that in mind...

1. Reed Richards could really go either way and because of that guys like him will be a little tricky to deal with. If you take him as your "Body" character you WILL get his basic durability. But if your wanting to use his offensive capabilities as well your going to have to draft him into the "Powers" category.

As a basic rule of thumb, your "Body" comes with any abilties that don't require mental effort to control. So if it's automatic(like someone shooting Reed and his body stretching in automatic response) then it's "Body". If it DOES require mental control(like Reed stretching to wrap around an opponent) then it falls under the "Powers" category. Because of this, I've decided to alter a previous ruling I made via PM where I classified Healing Factors as a "Power". Under the new system it WILL fall under the "Body" attribute as long as it doesn't require any mental effort on the characters part.

2. Superspeed for the most part will be handled as a "Power". If you look at someone like Quicksilver, his speed isn't a result of a his having better physical attributes than a normal human, it's rather the result of his mutant power. However someone like Hulk who had greater than normal speed because of advanced musculature WOULD retain his speed because in that case it's an actual physical attribute.

3. Things like Colossus's abilities will STILL fall under the "Body" category, even though he actually has to consciously change into his armored form.


I'm slightly confused as to why elastic bodies would be considered a "power" and yet Colossus's abilities would not? In all honesty I would have thought the reverse was going to apply Seeing as the body is just extra stretchy, and they do not have to actually turn their power "on" you know? Just my two cents.


Point number 2 seems fine

The rule changes seem good to me. And Colossus' body doesn't actively do anything that would be a "power". After activation, it's basically just strength/durability. The offensive capabilities of someone like Reed or maybe even Plastic Man with their "body" obviously go well beyond simple strength.

Kudos to goober though. I've had some input on a few of the rules, but most has been him and I think it's being handled well. An interesting format, but it seems like it will work well.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The rule changes seem good to me. And Colossus' body doesn't actively do anything that would be a "power". After activation, it's basically just strength/durability.

According to Darthgoober's new rule, if you choose Colossus' body, really all you get is his durability as he doesn't have to do anything. But his strength would be considered a POWER since he would have to do something to exhibit his strength.

At least that's what I got from his Reed example. The bullets stretching his body is okay, but if he stretches his body then it's considered a power.

Originally posted by masterbruce
According to Darthgoober's new rule, if you choose Colossus' body, really all you get is his durability as he doesn't have to do anything. But his strength would be considered a POWER since he would have to do something to exhibit his strength.

At least that's what I got from his Reed example. The bullets stretching his body is okay, but if he stretches his body then it's considered a power.

Yeah, it's tricky with Reed because his power is his body. But your example there makes sense.

But I think you'd agree that saying that somone's strength is a "power" and not part of their body is taking a bit too far.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

But I think you'd agree that saying that somone's strength is a "power" and not part of their body is taking a bit too far.

I do kinda...but I also feel that saying someone's stretchability (which is even more obvious an attribute of the body) is a "power" is even more wrong.

I mean, we know Spiderman is flexible as hell, whereas Thing probably is less flexible, both are a result of their bodies. Reed just takes flexibility to the next level, but it is obviously the fact that his body has the quality of stretching, and not that he has some magical ability to stretch an otherwise normal human body...so I really can't accept his stretchability being a "power" rather than just an aspect of his body.

I'm mainly going for consistency. If we remove Reed's ability to consciously stretch his body, then we have to remove Colossus' ability to consciously apply his strength.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I do kinda...but I also feel that saying someone's stretchability (which is even more obvious an attribute of the body) is a "power" is even more wrong.

I mean, we know Spiderman is flexible as hell, whereas Thing probably is less flexible, both are a result of their bodies. Reed just takes flexibility to the next level, but it is obviously the fact that his body has the quality of stretching, and not that he has some magical ability to stretch an otherwise normal human body...so I really can't accept his stretchability being a "power" rather than just an aspect of his body.

I'm mainly going for consistency. If we remove Reed's ability to consciously stretch his body, then we have to remove Colossus' ability to consciously apply his strength.

Actually, you'd have to remove everyone's ability to consciously use strength....because the line we draw is arbitrary.

And that's essentially why I'm backing goober here. In every tourney, eventually the host has to draw a "line" on a specific ability that is essentially arbitrary. But he has his reasons...it's not just to spite those considering stretch-types. And if we take it to the extreme conclusion, you have characters unable to use "strength" in any form. And at the other extreme, you'd be allowing Iceman, HydroMan, and others who can't rightly be killed (heck, Reed and Plastic Man are probably over whatever durability caps were set in the first place).

This also raises another issue that may very well come up:

Who is below and who is above Iron Man level.

There can be arguments made that Reed, Iceman, and other controversial characters can be considered by some to be below and others to be above.

I mean, what are the criteria for judging whether someone is Iron Man level? If a character can defeat Iron Man, is he above Iron Man level?

questions, questions...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, you'd have to remove everyone's ability to consciously use strength....because the line we draw is arbitrary.


pretty much, and that would obviously not work.

I don't have a problem with banning Reed's stretchability, just the reason for doing so. I don't think you can say you're banning it because it's a "power", because it's really just an attribute of the body, like STRENGTH.

BUT I do think you can ban it because it surpasses the Iron Man limit, however you guys decide to judge that.

Originally posted by masterbruce
This also raises another issue that may very well come up:

Who is below and who is above Iron Man level.

There can be arguments made that Reed, Iceman, and other controversial characters can be considered by some to be below and others to be above.

I mean, what are the criteria for judging whether someone is Iron Man level? If a character can defeat Iron Man, is he above Iron Man level?

questions, questions...

Believe me, it'll come up. Often.

As for the stretch-people, while we're on them, I say Plastic Man is > IM. Reed, probably ok. But that's me.

Originally posted by masterbruce
pretty much, and that would obviously not work.

I don't have a problem with banning Reed's stretchability, just the reason for doing so. I don't think you can say you're banning it because it's a "power", because it's really just an attribute of the body, like STRENGTH.

BUT I do think you can ban it because it surpasses the Iron Man limit, however you guys decide to judge that. I think you missing the fundmental aspect Goober is getting at.

What he is saying is that Reed normally operates in a humanoid manner. Meaning he normally appears as a human. He has to use his mind to alter his body beyond the normal human appearance.

Basically in order for Reed to use his power he has to think about changing his body. Colossus simply has to make a normal human move to do so. Colossus for example doesn't have to think I'm using Super strength he simply does by punching or kicking or lifting. Reed can't do that he has to mentally control his power.


See the difference.

Only powers of strength/durability are in the "Body Character" category by the looks of it ... might as well rename it the "Brick Character"

Whatever happeneed to the inter-team tourney?

Trickerpriest.

Not a double post .... honest!

I take it Longshot style powers are banned as usual .... right?

Originally posted by Scoobless
I take it Longshot style powers are banned as usual .... right?

they better not be!

oh, and when on sunday? afternoon i hope . . . sunday is not good for me i'm afraid . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and when on sunday? afternoon i hope . . . sunday is not good for me i'm afraid . . . As long as its before 4 o'clock Eastern I'll be fine anything after that and I have to go to work until till 9.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I take it Longshot style powers are banned as usual .... right?
Seems easier that way. Longshot's powers aren't really over the cap, but who wants to spend the entire match debating about whether or not probability will work the way a character wants it to.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Seems easier that way. Longshot's powers aren't really over the cap, but who wants to spend the entire match debating about whether or not probability will work the way a character wants it to.
Classic Scarlet Witch Vs. Longshot might be interesting...

A specific time would be nice (since its gonna be secret and whatnot)

damn......I just remembered I have an accounting test on monday. Oh well guess Sunday is study/tournament time.....again

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and when on sunday? afternoon i hope . . . sunday is not good for me i'm afraid . . .
Originally posted by Newjak
As long as its before 4 o'clock Eastern I'll be fine anything after that and I have to go to work until till 9.
Would Monday at about this time be better for everyone? I don't want to handicap people's amalgams just because their schedules are going to keep them away during the draft opening, so if you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a good time I'll take it into consideration.

Anyways I have another question on the characters. I just want to ask about something. Say for instance someone has a natural TP resistance. And has nothing to do with their mind thye have no mental powers its just they are naturally strong against it. Would that fall under the Body power because they don't have to think about it, it is just that way?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Would Monday at about this time be better for everyone? I don't want to handicap people's amalgams just because their schedules are going to keep them away during the draft opening, so if you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a good time I'll take it into consideration.


Monday @ 3 CST. I have to work at 5 :/

Originally posted by Newjak
Anyways I have another question on the characters. I just want to ask about something. Say for instance someone has a natural TP resistance. And has nothing to do with their mind thye have no mental powers its just they are naturally strong against it. Would that fall under the Body power because they don't have to think about it, it is just that way?

Seems like a "Powers" character trait to me.

DG ... you're never going to find a time that's perfect for everyone, just pick a time and stick to it ... we'll work around it if we have to.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Would Monday at about this time be better for everyone? I don't want to handicap people's amalgams just because their schedules are going to keep them away during the draft opening, so if you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a good time I'll take it into consideration. How about this we just hold off the draft until next Saturday that way everyone gets a chance to prepare and I know I can be on then.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Would Monday at about this time be better for everyone? I don't want to handicap people's amalgams just because their schedules are going to keep them away during the draft opening, so if you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a good time I'll take it into consideration.


Nah, I think Sunday is still best. I mean its the weekend, and most people work or have school during most of the week

Monday after 5 eastern works for me though if your asking.....even better than Sunday, but eh I'm flexible with times (since well not everyone can get a time to agree on)

and no NJ....I dont wanna wait a whole nother week

Originally posted by Scoobless
Seems like a "Powers" character trait to me. I thought it might be I was just wondering if that person has no telepathic powers or anything they just are naturally good against it what would it be.

Originally posted by Newjak
I thought it might be I was just wondering if that person has no telepathic powers or anything they just are naturally good against it what would it be.

Tell me who it is and I'll clear it up for you.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Tell me who it is and I'll clear it up for you.

Its just a general comment not based on anyone particular person

I mean the idea is simple they have no telepathic powers they just for some reason have a good resistance to it for no reason then they just do.

So the first round draft is going to be @ 6pm, (Thats what time it is here) Monday?
I can do that. I get off at 4:30 my time so 6 works fine. It also would give me more time to finalize my character and come up with backups in case someone drafts a character before I get to them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Would Monday at about this time be better for everyone? I don't want to handicap people's amalgams just because their schedules are going to keep them away during the draft opening, so if you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a good time I'll take it into consideration.

No Mondays are horrible for me Sundays would be way better

Originally posted by Newjak
Its just a general comment not based on anyone particular person

I mean the idea is simple they have no telepathic powers they just for some reason have a good resistance to it for no reason then they just do.
That kind of thing is normally the result of a strong will("Mind" or something like Storm's electricity in her brain("Powers" so it doesn't seem like it should go into the "Body" category. The only exception is someone like Plasitic Man, who's body is the source of the resistance and that resistance would carry over the same way his durability does. But since I've decided to ban Plastic Man after being advised to by pretty much everyone helping me with this thing, I can't really think of anyone who that applies to.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That kind of thing is normally the result of a strong will("Mind" or something like Storm's electricity in her brain("Powers" so it doesn't seem like it should go into the "Body" category. The only exception is someone like Plasitic Man, who's body is the source of the resistance and that resistance would carry over the same way his durability does. But since I've decided to ban Plastic Man after being advised to by pretty much everyone helping me with this thing, I can't really think of anyone who that applies to. Ok then thats all I need to know

Originally posted by Newjak
Ok then thats all I need to know
You wanted Plastic Man didn't you ?

Originally posted by darthgoober
You wanted Plastic Man didn't you ? Maybe

So.....time? and day?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
So.....time? and day?
Damn it I don't know. Everyone has conflicting scheduals and I want to be as fair as possible to everyone involved. Everyone just post what time would be best for both Sunday AND Monday, and I'll decide when I get back from running a couple of errands. I'll post my decision in an hour or two when I get back.

Just decide a time

No one time is going to be PERFECT. Sunday in my opinion works better (on an average) seeings as its still the weekend

tomorrow night is fine with me. or sunday afternoon. monday is less convenient.

anyway, we've only heard from a couple people participating. be nice if everyone who's entered would chime in with thoughts.

Sunday is ok as long as it is before or at 4 o'clock

Monday is ok with me as long as it is past 4:30 ...well I guess 4 is ok as well.

How about noon on Sunday

how about 11 am CST Sunday? Works best for me.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
how about 11 am CST Sunday? Works best for me.

He's still here ... good sign.

Sunday at 12:00 But i'm on Holidays so anytime is good for me.

12 on sunday sounds good.

so . . . we just all send pm's at 12:00 and whatever order they arrive in is the order the picks are granted?

guess that means everyone has to trust gobber . . .

Ok people check it out. I'm going to be working in the day time so the drafts will have to be held in the evening(sorry to those who wanted it during the day). Since it seems like it would be easier to have this thing on the weekend than to have it during the week, it'll be Sunday. Now I'm tipsy and I suck with time zones for some reason, so I'll just say that it'll start Sunday at whatever time it was 2 hours and 2 minutes ago to you.

Originally posted by leonidas
12 on sunday sounds good.

Yeah 12 eastern time

Also if everyone agrees it's cool, if those of you who will be unable to be here would like, you can designate someone else who will be here to make your draft for you. But that's only if no one else objects.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'll just say that it'll start Sunday at whatever time it was 2 hours and 2 minutes ago to you.

That's midnight in the UK.

Originally posted by Scoobless
That's midnight int he UK.


Sorry, I'm in Oklahoma so that's 6 PM to me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry, I'm in Oklahoma so that's 6 PM to me. Its 7 PM for me

Meh ... it's not like I ever sleep anyway ... and Monday is a public holiday for us.

eww, sunday evening is SO uncool . . .

alas, i will be designating someone to choose for me. or i could just tell you now, goob -- not like anyone else will pick this . . . person . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
eww, sunday evening is SO uncool . . .

alas, i will be designating someone to choose for me. or i could just tell you now, goob -- not like anyone else will pick this . . . person . . . Yeah I'll be at work so I'll have to do the same thing

And I don't think anyone will be taking my person either.

just make sure that pick of yours was cleared by the boss, mister. i'm all too familiar with how you royals do business in these tournaments!

Originally posted by leonidas
just make sure that pick of yours was cleared by the boss, mister. i'm all too familiar with how you royals do business in these tournaments!

Don't worry this person will be well under the caps

good.

cuz mine won't be . . .

HOLY MOTHERF*CKING HELL BATMAN!!!NEWJAKS TAKING SQUIRREL GIRL!!!!

Originally posted by leonidas
good.

cuz mine won't be . . . Good becuase I'm either going to get laughed at for this pick or be declared a genius




Originally posted by Martian_mind
HOLY MOTHERF*CKING HELL BATMAN!!!NEWJAKS TAKING SQUIRREL GIRL!!!!

So ..... anyone else worried that their amalgam is going to be severely underpowered and get uber-pwned in the first round? ... or is that just me?

Originally posted by Scoobless
So ..... anyone else worried that their amalgam is going to be severely underpowered and get uber-pwned in the first round? ... or is that just me?

Not really because I have a very good plan

Ok maybe there is a little worry but not that much not really ok there is a lot of worry Scoobs I'm very afraid

Originally posted by Scoobless
So ..... anyone else worried that their amalgam is going to be severely underpowered and get uber-pwned in the first round? ... or is that just me?


Don't even try to pull that one Scoobs. You've got more tourney wins than anyone else around, so I'm sure you'll do just fine.



By the way people, would anyone consider it an abuse of power for me to hold a special bonus round where the winner would go up against me and the amalgam that I've came up with? It wouldn't really mean anything(and I'd choose from characters that weren't selected by anyone else), I'm just curious to try my hand at a match under this format. If you guys don't want to that's cool, I just figured I'd ask.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Don't even try to pull that one Scoobs. You've got more tourney wins than anyone else around, so I'm sure you'll do just fine.



By the way people, would anyone consider it an abuse of power for me to hold a special bonus round where the winner would go up against me and the amalgam that I've came up with? It wouldn't really mean anything(and I'd choose from characters that weren't selected by anyone else), I'm just curious to try my hand at a match under this format. If you guys don't want to that's cool, I just figured I'd ask.

Sure,i'll be willing to Vs you goobs.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Don't even try to pull that one Scoobs.

Just trying to put a little doubt and fear into everyone's minds .... most of them don't even realise that the battle has already begun.

evilbang

Originally posted by Scoobless
Just trying to put a little doubt and fear into everyone's minds .... most of them don't even realise that the battle has already begun.

evilbang

Laugh while you can still draw breath little man.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Just trying to put a little doubt and fear into everyone's minds .... most of them don't even realise that the battle has already begun.

evilbang


Oh Please.The seeds for my victory were planted weeks ago evilbang

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Oh Please.The seeds for my victory were planted weeks ago evilbang Please I planted my seeds before you were born mhm

Wait that didn't come out right