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Who wins out this fight The russian or the weapon X subjects ?

Colossus

They can't do much harm to him and he's far stronger than they are.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Colossus

They can't do much harm to him and he's far stronger than they are.

logan/creed ftw

I don't think Colossus will be able to kayo Wolverine. The Little rat has too many good showings against powerhouses. But Creed poses minimal threat to Colossus.

Colossus takes the healthy majority.

in comics- team(adamantium),in reality-colossus by far(pure metal,they cant cut that no way)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
in comics- team(adamantium),in reality-colossus by far(pure metal,they cant cut that no way)

Even in comics he would beat them.

Wolverine has been shown unable to cut Colossus.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even in comics he would beat them.

Wolverine has been shown unable to cut Colossus.

Howlett has cut the Hulk. He slices Piotr. Creed/Logan won't die. Piotr goes down

Originally posted by guy222
Howlett has cut the Hulk. He slices Piotr. Creed/Logan won't die. Piotr goes down

Logan has tried. He lacks the strength to cut good ol' Petey.

Wolverine/Sabertooth win Wolverine wuld take the Russian out by himself

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I don't think Colossus will be able to kayo Wolverine. The Little rat has too many good showings against powerhouses. But Creed poses minimal threat to Colossus.

This post confuzzles me.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even in comics he would beat them.

Wolverine has been shown unable to cut Colossus.

I guess Colossus > Thanos in durability now, eh?

I hate Logan's PIS Claws.

Could someone tell me what PIS means ?

Plot Induced Stupidity.

Originally posted by batdude123
This post confuzzles me. The reason I say Creed won't be a threat is cause he does not a have adamantium skeleton. Or does he?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The reason I say Creed won't be a threat is cause he does not a have adamantium skeleton. Or does he?

As of the latest Wolverine, he does not. With absolutely no explanation for the loss.

Logan alone win.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Logan alone win.

This is blasphemy!

This is madness!

THIS IS WOLVERINE!!



Had to be done, Colossus 10/10

not enough bonified evidence to call either way.
contrary to what was said earlier, wolverine's never actually proven unable to cut colossus... that showing was ambiguous at best...

meh, too much circumstantial evidence makes it impossible to call.. however, it's of not to consider that even in the 2000 annual for uncanny x-men colossus practically admitted that wolverine could cut him to the bone.

Didn't Wolverine also admit that Kitty would kick his ass in a hand-to-hand fight in Astonishing?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Didn't Wolverine also admit that Kitty would kick his ass in a hand-to-hand fight in Astonishing?

Yeah.
And that Spider-man could break his neck...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Didn't Wolverine also admit that Kitty would kick his ass in a hand-to-hand fight in Astonishing?

I dunno.. which issue?

meh even so look at what you have presented as evidence there...

I mean if astonishing is the best evidence for that argument there's an issue with the multiple times wolveirne HAS beaten kitty...

unlike this with colossus; there's no definitive proof to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I guess Colossus > Thanos in durability now, eh?

I hate Logan's PIS Claws.

Lol, I have to bring this up...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Colossus

They can't do much harm to him and he's far stronger than they are.

I agree with this.

Originally posted by jinzin
not enough bonified evidence to call either way.
contrary to what was said earlier, wolverine's never actually proven unable to cut colossus... that showing was ambiguous at best...

meh, too much circumstantial evidence makes it impossible to call.. however, it's of not to consider that even in the 2000 annual for uncanny x-men colossus practically admitted that wolverine could cut him to the bone. It wasn't ambiguous it showed adamatium is stronger than Colossus just Logan isn't strong enough to inflict any REAL damage.

The 2000 annual and Colossus' comments mean nothing. When they fought in Annual #6 they both were being controled by Vampires and therefore do no remember anything about the fight.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It wasn't ambiguous it showed adamatium is stronger than Colossus just Logan isn't strong enough to inflict any REAL damage.

The 2000 annual and Colossus' comments mean nothing. When they fought in Annual #6 they both were being controled by Vampires and therefore do no remember anything about the fight.

It IS ambiguous however...

We never see that wolverine did or did not inflict damage...

the text reads that organic steel is no match for admantium.
the text reads that wolverine scored the metal..which means he did do at least SOME form of damage to it.

like riceroost once stated, just because wolverine didn't cut him in half people automatically assume that he can't cut colossus. It's a baseless argument since the only evidence that supports the theory CAN'T be shown to prove he did nothing to colossus.. it's only assumed..

Likewise, wolverine's scored hisclaws against people like daredevil in such fasion.. does that mean hecan't do damage to daredevil? I'd certainly think not...

again, wolverine thinks he can do it.
Colossus thinks he can do it.
and frankly riptide's non admantium shurikens have done it.
Wolverine's cut and damaged people at colossus' level of durability with bone claws nevermind admantium ones...
that coupled with the fact that wolverine's sliced and diced people at or above colossus' level of durability and tripled with the fact that colossus has nearly crapped himself from wolverine just pointing his claws in collosus' general direction. and finally quadrupled with the fact that wolverine tore through mimic's organic steel like a hot knife through butter....
the argument that wolverine can't damage colossus seems a bit like wishful thinking.

Colossus takes the Majority.

Originally posted by jinzin
It IS ambiguous however...

We never see that wolverine did or did not inflict damage...

the text reads that organic steel is no match for admantium.
the text reads that wolverine scored the metal..which means he did do at least SOME form of damage to it.

like riceroost once stated, just because wolverine didn't cut him in half people automatically assume that he can't cut colossus. It's a baseless argument since the only evidence that supports the theory CAN'T be shown to prove he did nothing to colossus.. it's only assumed..

Likewise, wolverine's scored hisclaws against people like daredevil in such fasion.. does that mean hecan't do damage to daredevil? I'd certainly think not...

again, wolverine thinks he can do it.
Colossus thinks he can do it.
and frankly riptide's non admantium shurikens have done it.
Wolverine's cut and damaged people at colossus' level of durability with bone claws nevermind admantium ones...
that coupled with the fact that wolverine's sliced and diced people at or above colossus' level of durability and tripled with the fact that colossus has nearly crapped himself from wolverine just pointing his claws in collosus' general direction. and finally quadrupled with the fact that wolverine tore through mimic's organic steel like a hot knife through butter....
the argument that wolverine can't damage colossus seems a bit like wishful thinking. Wolverine and Sabretooth lose. dur

Originally posted by jinzin
It IS ambiguous however...

We never see that wolverine did or did not inflict damage...

the text reads that organic steel is no match for admantium.
the text reads that wolverine scored the metal..which means he did do at least SOME form of damage to it.

like riceroost once stated, just because wolverine didn't cut him in half people automatically assume that he can't cut colossus. It's a baseless argument since the only evidence that supports the theory CAN'T be shown to prove he did nothing to colossus.. it's only assumed..

Likewise, wolverine's scored hisclaws against people like daredevil in such fasion.. does that mean hecan't do damage to daredevil? I'd certainly think not...

again, wolverine thinks he can do it.
Colossus thinks he can do it.
and frankly riptide's non admantium shurikens have done it.
Wolverine's cut and damaged people at colossus' level of durability with bone claws nevermind admantium ones...
that coupled with the fact that wolverine's sliced and diced people at or above colossus' level of durability and tripled with the fact that colossus has nearly crapped himself from wolverine just pointing his claws in collosus' general direction. and finally quadrupled with the fact that wolverine tore through mimic's organic steel like a hot knife through butter....
the argument that wolverine can't damage colossus seems a bit like wishful thinking. Did you even read what I posted? Neither one of them remember the fight they had. So in Colossus' mind he is not sure he could withstand slashes from Logan but in reality he has. Dracula ordered him to kill the X-Men, not scratch them.

I never said Colossus is stronger than adamantium. I did say he's not strong enought to do any REAL damage. Scoring is not gonna get it done. Riptide did hurt Colossus I'm glad you brought that up. Cause after Magneto augmented Colossus' body the next time Riptide tried the same attack the shurikens just bounced off his body. Riptide could spin a plastic straw though solid oak. I could just imagine what he could do with a shuriken.

Then we have Warhawk. A guy made of organic steel also and who is considered a second rate Colossus and Wolveirnes claws bounced off his chest also.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusvsWolverineAnn-6.jpg

I was gonna point out that thing about riptide, but was beaten to it. They only cut colossus on the first go around. After his upgrade, they simply bounced off.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Did you even read what I posted? Neither one of them remember the fight they had. So in Colossus' mind he is not sure he could withstand slashes from Logan but in reality he has. Dracula ordered him to kill the X-Men, not scratch them.

I never said Colossus is stronger than adamantium. I did say he's not strong enought to do any REAL damage. Scoring is not gonna get it done. Riptide did hurt Colossus I'm glad you brought that up. Cause after Magneto augmented Colossus' body the next time Riptide tried the same attack the shurikens just bounced off his body. Riptide could spin a plastic straw though solid oak. I could just imagine what he could do with a shuriken.

Then we have Warhawk. A guy made of organic steel also and who is considered a second rate Colossus and Wolveirnes claws bounced off his chest also.

Warhawk: So it's okay to take into account colossus' upgrades but not wolverine's?
Cause lasttime I checked wolverine claimed his claws bounced off a warhawk like his skin was made out of "rock or steel"... Okay let's re-assess that statement. Wolverine who's bone claws have been written to cut through steel, rock, and class 100 bricks like herc, and hulk implied his admantium claws couldn't cut through steel or rock...
If you think that the same results would hold up in asecond encounter between the two you re far beyond my help.

I didn't know about the second encounter with riptide, (yet I'm still not convinced).
I DID read what you said but again I come to the conclussion that there is a definitive reason for colossus' fear of TEH! CLAAAWWWSS! and I don't think those reactions are of an uncertain man but a scared man.

In anycase, Dracula may have ordered Wolverine to kill them; it doesn't mean that Wolverine's strike was a profecient one.
Again he's scored regular people in the same fasion in fights would we assume he can't cut them either? I hope not.

Now seriously.. that scan proves NOTHING in the "they can't hurt colossus" argument.. for one it proves flat out that organic steel is no match for adamantium and two it states that the claws HAD AN EFFECT....

again, that coupled with colossus' fear and the fact that wolverine has been shown to put his whole arm through mimic's organic steel... well....

Colossus does not feat the claws.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20agillity%20and%20speed/ColossusandWolverine2unc110.jpg

I think you are not getting what I and most others are saying. Adamantium is stronger than Colossus' organic steel, we established that much. But Logan is NOT strong enough to do any damage to him especially since his whole body is steel and superdense. Now if Hulk had adamantium claws Colossus would be screwed no doubt.

How did Logan get upgrades? Is adamantium harder now that it used to be or something?

He don't look to be frightened here either of the mighty claws.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20agillity%20and%20speed/ColossuspunkinLogan.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus does not feat the claws.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20agillity%20and%20speed/ColossusandWolverine2unc110.jpg

I think you are not getting what I and most others are saying. Adamantium is stronger than Colossus' organic steel, we established that much. But Logan is NOT strong enough to do any damage to him especially since his whole body is steel and superdense. Now if Hulk had adamantium claws Colossus would be screwed no doubt.

How did Logan get upgrades? Is adamantium harder now that it used to be or something?

pffft... what an insulting half assed logically fallacy....

I don't agree with what you're saying so I must not understand what's being said.. riiiight.

I understand your point just fine, I just don't agree with it.. again there's no CLEAR evidence to support it, and the ONLY evidence that DOES exist doesn't bode well for Colossus.


To your first example: irrelivant.. they were both VERY new members of the X-men and Colossus wasn't aware of what wolvie's claws could and couldn't cut through.

To the second: it's outweighed by the number of showings which contradict it plain and simple.

And to the question about admantium.. no.. it's not so much that, but the fact that what it can cut through HAS been retconned...
At that point wolverine couldn't cut through hulk and claimed his claws bounced off steel and rock....
Now: even his bone claws do that stuff. So using warhawk is about as relivant as my use of riptide apparently.

Again, there's no clear evidence to state that wolverine can't damage him, ESPECIALLY considering that in your one example: it states wolverine DID have a physical effect...

And the term "No match" seems to imply to me that wolverine's strength wouldn't be THAT much of a hinderence for cutting Colossus. No match= no contest.

You sure do make alot of excuses when it comes to Wolverine. So what's the cut off point on feats of Logans claws we cannot use? I mean as far as I know he's always claimed he could cut through anything. Better yet can you prove Wolverine has been upgraded?

Let me ask you this. Can Wolverine cause serious enough damage to win a fight with him?

I'm not making ANY excuses... that's what you guys are doing for colossus...

I'm stating facts... simple and understandable FACTS.

Again it's not that the admantium he's recieved from apocalypse was an upgraded one but the fact is: Wolverine's claws HAVE been retconned, his ability to cut through anything didn't happen until well after he joined the x-men.. his fight with warhawk, well before that was an attributution to his claws..

"If as far as you know" is otherwise, I suggest you re-read the encounter.. wolverine flat out states that his claws bounce off of warhawk as if he was made of "ROCK OR STEEL".... if you think that wolverine can't cut through rock or steel NOW then you're well beyond my help friend, and obviously you can't possibly think that if as far as you know he can cut through anything.. which seems like a contradictive statement considering you're trying to argue he can't cut something in this thread. .

As I said before.. I have no idea who would flat out win, again we do not have enouh evidence to support either side for a straight victory... it's simple as.

I'm gonna play this game like you do. Logan was fairly new when he tried to cut Warhawk so like you said about Colossus not knowing about Logans claws maybe Logan did not know at that time he could cut through steel or rock. He found out the hard way he cannot cut through organic steel.

Then you say Logans claws were retconned,(even with no valid proof other than your opinion) that's the first time I ever heard that. Now when Riptide hurt Colossus it was around the same time Logan failed to do any real damage to Colossus. But as I said earlier Colossus has been augmented since then by Magneto so he would be more durable now than when Logan scratched him.

Now in the Annual #6 scan Logan sliced him hard enough to make sparks and score Colossus telling me he put some juice in the attack. In X-men #160 S'ym tossed a adamtium claw as Colossus and all it did when he through it was stick into his shoulder a few inches at best. What did Colossus do? Simply pulled it out and fought on. Colossus was even surpised that Logans claw pierces his armor by commenting on the strength of S'ym to be able to do that.

Sh!t even in Ultimated continuity Wolverine has failed to injure Colossus as basically the same thing happened.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I'm gonna play this game like you do. Logan was fairly new when he tried to cut Warhawk so like you said about Colossus not knowing about Logans claws maybe Logan did not know at that time he could cut through steel or rock. He found out the hard way he cannot cut through organic steel.

You're right, you aren't playing this game like I do.

For one, you keep bringing up irrelivant examples and two you keep pretending that annual 6 is something that actually shows this argument to be in C's favor.

What part of RETCONNED isn't quite getting through to you?
When Wolverine tried to cut Warhawk he would know EXACLTY what he could or couldn't do to rock or steel.. wanna know how I know that?
CAUSE WOLVERINE WAS NOT NEW BY THE TIME HE JOINED THE X-MEN...
chronologically speaking of course, wolverine had already spent a wealth of time working for department H, as well as having been on several special missions in between his escape from weapon x and his addition to department H.

In wolverine flashback he sliced through a car like it was made out of cardboard.
In his time with alpha flight he put the boots to multiple steel and chromium robots.
In alpha flight special 1 he easily sliced and diced rhino's hide... (even juggernaught thought rhino's hide was too tough for him to deal with and decided he had to bypass it completely)...
Wolverine FULL WELL knew he could dice through steel by the time he fought warhawk.. again.. it was an early appearance of the character before his attributes were well defined. It's not a suitable example since his claws have been retconned.. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.. it's like trying to claim that wolverine can't cut hulk since he didn't do it in his first appearance.. obviously.. that ain't the case.



Originally posted by snoopdogg
Then you say Logans claws were retconned,(even with no valid proof other than your opinion) that's the first time I ever heard that.

What the hell are you talking about.. there IS valid proof.. you know.. in wolverine cuttig every form of metal, skin, and hide as hard as rock and steel "like a hot knife through butter" on most occasions, since he said that.
Again. I'm not quite sure what's so hard to follow about that but if you need to me leave you some breadcrumbs let me know.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now when Riptide hurt Colossus it was around the same time Logan failed to do any real damage to Colossus. But as I said earlier Colossus has been augmented since then by Magneto so he would be more durable now than when Logan scratched him.

Again you say that logan failed to do any real damage as if that was all the damage he was capible of doing in spite of the text reading otherwise...

and again.. that second point only backs up what I'm already saying; there's not enough hardcore evidence to call it either way.. it's pretty much that simple.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now in the Annual #6 scan Logan sliced him hard enough to make sparks and score Colossus telling me he put some juice in the attack.
your speculation means nothing... wolverine wasn't grounded, he lacked leverage and all he's shown doing is a simple backhand swipe.. the damage that resulted was just what happened it doesn't dictate that it was an "everything I got" attack..

Originally posted by snoopdogg
In X-men #160 S'ym tossed a adamtium claw as Colossus and all it did when he through it was stick into his shoulder a few inches at best. What did Colossus do? Simply pulled it out and fought on.
Do we need to cover how many more character's have suffered far more serious and considerable damage and "fought on".. captain america for instance. Again that doesn't prove that wolverine can't damage him.. infact it implies the opposite.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus was even surpised that Logans claw pierces his armor by commenting on the strength of S'ym to be able to do that.
So what? it doesn't prove that 616 wolverine can't cut him does it?...

Infact that was a weakened admantium skeleton.. whether it be akin to AOA wolverine and the admantium bonding process simply didn't take as it did in 616 or akin to that of the wolverine of 2020 in that the 2020 wolverine's claws broke on death's head's multifuntional arm because his skeleton was weakened by way of a magical attack from charnel.. just like it probably was by belasco. Yet in contrast 616 wolverine diced right through death's head's arm like nothing.

I mean look.. Sym snaps that claw off like it were a twig, he doesn't struggle or strain himself to do it either. But in contrast again what happens when he fights wolverine? when he lands a couple of actual blows on the midget? NOTHING. If the admantium skeletons had the same consistency wolverine's head would have either been knocked off or permenantly caved in... it wasn't..


Originally posted by snoopdogg
Sh!t even in Ultimated continuity Wolverine has failed to injure Colossus as basically the same thing happened.


again irrelivant.. and again STILL DEBATEABLE.
Originally posted by riceroost
Which does not show in any way what happened, since there are sparks flying everywhere. Although Emma does clearly state that Wolverine will kill Colossus.

Originally posted by jinzin
You're right, you aren't playing this game like I do.

For one, you keep bringing up irrelivant examples and two you keep pretending that annual 6 is something that actually shows this argument to be in C's favor.

What part of RETCONNED isn't quite getting through to you?
When Wolverine tried to cut Warhawk he would know EXACLTY what he could or couldn't do to rock or steel.. wanna know how I know that?
CAUSE WOLVERINE WAS NOT NEW BY THE TIME HE JOINED THE X-MEN...
chronologically speaking of course, wolverine had already spent a wealth of time working for department H, as well as having been on several special missions in between his escape from weapon x and his addition to department H.

In wolverine flashback he sliced through a car like it was made out of cardboard.
In his time with alpha flight he put the boots to multiple steel and chromium robots.
In alpha flight special 1 he easily sliced and diced rhino's hide... (even juggernaught thought rhino's hide was too tough for him to deal with and decided he had to bypass it completely)...
Wolverine FULL WELL knew he could dice through steel by the time he fought warhawk.. again.. it was an early appearance of the character before his attributes were well defined. It's not a suitable example since his claws have been retconned.. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.. it's like trying to claim that wolverine can't cut hulk since he didn't do it in his first appearance.. obviously.. that ain't the case.





What the hell are you talking about.. there IS valid proof.. you know.. in wolverine cuttig every form of metal, skin, and hide as hard as rock and steel "like a hot knife through butter" on most occasions, since he said that.
Again. I'm not quite sure what's so hard to follow about that but if you need to me leave you some breadcrumbs let me know.



Again you say that logan failed to do any real damage as if that was all the damage he was capible of doing in spite of the text reading otherwise...

and again.. that second point only backs up what I'm already saying; there's not enough hardcore evidence to call it either way.. it's pretty much that simple.


your speculation means nothing... wolverine wasn't grounded, he lacked leverage and all he's shown doing is a simple backhand swipe.. the damage that resulted was just what happened it doesn't dictate that it was an "everything I got" attack..


Do we need to cover how many more character's have suffered far more serious and considerable damage and "fought on".. captain america for instance. Again that doesn't prove that wolverine can't damage him.. infact it implies the opposite.


So what? it doesn't prove that 616 wolverine can't cut him does it?...

Infact that was a weakened admantium skeleton.. whether it be akin to AOA wolverine and the admantium bonding process simply didn't take as it did in 616 or akin to that of the wolverine of 2020 in that the 2020 wolverine's claws broke on death's head's multifuntional arm because his skeleton was weakened by way of a magical attack from charnel.. just like it probably was by belasco. Yet in contrast 616 wolverine diced right through death's head's arm like nothing.

I mean look.. Sym snaps that claw off like it were a twig, he doesn't struggle or strain himself to do it either. But in contrast again what happens when he fights wolverine? when he lands a couple of actual blows on the midget? NOTHING. If the admantium skeletons had the same consistency wolverine's head would have either been knocked off or permenantly caved in... it wasn't..





again irrelivant.. and again STILL DEBATEABLE. You need to find a hobby man.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
You need to find a hobby man.

don't have time for a hobby, I gotta life.

Originally posted by jinzin
don't have time for a hobby, I gotta life. Honestly...I didn't even read all of that post. Why in the hell would you waste the time to type that big of a post anyways?

I like to keep this simple.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Honestly...I didn't even read all of that post. Why in the hell would you waste the time to type that big of a post anyways?

I like to keep this simple.

(sigh) just thought there were a lot of points to cover.

Originally posted by jinzin
(sigh) just thought there were a lot of points to cover. Well who wins in your opinion? I don't think you have stated yet but it'a kinda obvious you're going for Sabes and Wolverine.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well who wins in your opinion? I don't think you have stated yet but it'a kinda obvious you're going for Sabes and Wolverine.

This has been my whole point all along: you CAN NOT make an educated opinion on who would win this fight. There's no suitable evidence to dectate that either side would have THE advantage.

I can't give you an opinion on something that's leaving so much up for self interpretation and speculation.. If wolverine can cut Colossus the team wins..

If he can't, they're so screwed..

but until real solidified evidence exists to support either case, than it doesn't really matter who I think wins since it would be a baseless assumption.

Originally posted by jinzin
This has been my whole point all along: you CAN NOT make an educated opinion on who would win this fight. There's no suitable evidence to dectate that either side would have THE advantage.

I can't give you an opinion on something that's leaving so much up for self interpretation and speculation.. If wolverine can cut Colossus the team wins..

If he can't, they're so screwed..

but until real solidified evidence exists to support either case, than it doesn't really matter who I think wins since it would be a baseless assumption.

Wouldn't most of the opinions on KMC then be "baseless assumptions" since most of the opponents have not faced off against each other before?

I mean, if you want to get technical about it.

Uber technical perhaps...

but again.. in most battles you know that the characters can at least damage one another and possibly to what various extents...
not in this thread though.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wouldn't most of the opinions on KMC then be "baseless assumptions" since most of the opponents have not faced off against each other before?

I mean, if you want to get technical about it.

no, most opinions on KMC are assumptions, but they aren't baseless.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I don't think Colossus will be able to kayo Wolverine. The Little rat has too many good showings against powerhouses. But Creed poses minimal threat to Colossus.

you are sooooo much better than this...

Originally posted by batdude123
This post confuzzles me.

cosigned...

colossus is just too strong and durable imo... he takes it...

confuzzled?Blast it,i can't understand Batdude's black hip hop lingo....