The Holy Spirit

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Schecter
not trying to generalise, but the main criticism of the catholic church seems to come from their closest kin of faith. this criticism centers around how odd customs and practices were tagged on to catholicism over its long history. christmas trees and easter bunnies, sign of the cross and other odd hand gestures...kneel, sit, stand, kneel, stand, sit. mass produced objects which are rendered holy relics with but a blessing from a priest...all these weird customs which were never taken from the bible.

they say us catholics are silly and have strayed from 'true' christianity. im not sure about the 'true' part, but i think they are correct to a degree. the problem is lack of actual bible education and an overabundance of teachings surrounding the revisions of popes throughout history and their apparent conferences with the holy spirit....that and guilt...lots and lots of guilt.
so with every new "vision", be it genuine, psychotic delusion, for flatout lie, the church was altered and the very core of christian teachings a bit warped. the most glaring examples dealing with lucifer and the lake of fire, but as superficial as the odd customs and supersticions i mentioned.

so i guess the key to not getting too silly like us catholics is to not blindly accept what some people say, so long as they claim the holy spirit told them, right?
after all, popes are only human, so how can they be so blindly trusted?

now i turn on the news and see people like pat robertson claim to have had conversations with the holy spirit, who apprently gives him premonitions about the weather and terrorist attacks. yet he is perhaps the most respected member of the christian community. i see people on this forum justify their opinions based on the idea that the holy spirit enlightened them. so whereas we only allowed one person on the planet to claim to speak to god and rewrite law/scripture/morals, now any shmuck in a 3 piece suit with enough cash and an audience can do the same.

can it be safe to say that the 'holy spirit' is the doom of christianity?
is it safe to assume that christians who bash catholics should consider
that they are committing the exact same folly, and that with time there really is no limit to how silly they might become?

G U I T A R
I dont wanna read..-.-

TRH
this belongs in religion forum

Schecter
oh, im sorry. it was an accident stick out tongue ill report

Adult Swim Guy
Ya um I am Christan and I don't believe in how you believe in lol!spam_laser

lol jm but i am christan

Kongu Dude
Originally posted by TRH
this belongs in religion forum

Schecter
i already reported it. it was an accident. find some real priorities.

TRH
Originally posted by Schecter
i already reported it. it was an accident. find some real priorities. what,shut up

Schecter
feel better now? roll eyes (sarcastic)

TRH
no

Goddess Kali
I grew up Catholic, and I never understood the difference between the Holy Spirit and God himself....

Devil King
Originally posted by Schecter
can it be safe to say that the 'holy spirit' is the doom of christianity?
is it safe to assume that christians who bash catholics should consider
that they are committing the exact same folly, and that with time there really is no limit to how silly they might become?

Without question. Catholicism represented the one christian church, which was established on the dozens of different types of practiced christianity through out the early christian movement. Once it grew so huge that people spoke out against it, it began to fracture. So, now we have the catholics, the protestants, the mormons, the baptists, etc.

Anytime you reject one bureaucracy and then establish your own bloated bureaucracy to replace it, you're a hypocrit. And in this case, each bloated bureaucracy has been attributed to the divine intervention of god. So, despite the centuries of death and lies, the biggest victim of christianity has been god himself...should he exist.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Schecter
not trying to generalise, but the main criticism of the catholic church seems to come from their closest kin of faith. this criticism centers around how odd customs and practices were tagged on to catholicism over its long history. christmas trees and easter bunnies, sign of the cross and other odd hand gestures...kneel, sit, stand, kneel, stand, sit. mass produced objects which are rendered holy relics with but a blessing from a priest...all these weird customs which were never taken from the bible.

they say us catholics are silly and have strayed from 'true' christianity. im not sure about the 'true' part, but i think they are correct to a degree. the problem is lack of actual bible education and an overabundance of teachings surrounding the revisions of popes throughout history and their apparent conferences with the holy spirit....that and guilt...lots and lots of guilt.
so with every new "vision", be it genuine, psychotic delusion, for flatout lie, the church was altered and the very core of christian teachings a bit warped. the most glaring examples dealing with lucifer and the lake of fire, but as superficial as the odd customs and supersticions i mentioned.

so i guess the key to not getting too silly like us catholics is to not blindly accept what some people say, so long as they claim the holy spirit told them, right?
after all, popes are only human, so how can they be so blindly trusted?

now i turn on the news and see people like pat robertson claim to have had conversations with the holy spirit, who apprently gives him premonitions about the weather and terrorist attacks. yet he is perhaps the most respected member of the christian community. i see people on this forum justify their opinions based on the idea that the holy spirit enlightened them. so whereas we only allowed one person on the planet to claim to speak to god and rewrite law/scripture/morals, now any shmuck in a 3 piece suit with enough cash and an audience can do the same.

can it be safe to say that the 'holy spirit' is the doom of christianity?
is it safe to assume that christians who bash catholics should consider
that they are committing the exact same folly, and that with time there really is no limit to how silly they might become? Most people that bash Catholics have little to no understanding of Catholic doctrines. Everything in the Catholic church that is questionable by other denominations is usually not even sinful, just kinda useless or irrelevant like Mary doctrine. However, Protestants have been guilty of equally bad things including moral laxity in doctrine and the removal of books from the canon that Jesus himself used. The deuterocanonicals were wrongfully removed and yet most Protestants are blind to this. Both have their failings and many people like Pat Robertson have their failings, however, the Holy Spirit is promised to all believers in the form of gifts and as a Counselor.

debbiejo
The Holy Spirit has been twisted into a thing that one needs to be saved from an imaginary hell. When in fact all it could be is the leading of a source that is in everybody to guide one in a better path from a lesser longer one.

Schecter
i think the act of blessing anything is really silly and witch-doctorish. but i digress.

Originally posted by Nellinator
however, the Holy Spirit is promised to all believers in the form of gifts and as a Counselor.

yes its generally harmless and silly. however the holy spirit was used as
a supposed conduit from god to pope which dictated political/social
movement/law over the whole of the holy roman empire.
i dont think thats what god intended. but thats all history.
now...about pat robertson. do you find his actions safe?
or do you think it blasphemy for a man to claim to be god's hired
blogger to the world (or at least america)? im sure at this point you already suspect what i think stick out tongue

leonheartmm
actually catholism{or whatever the noun is} is one of the most well understood and most thought about relegion that critics bash. if theres any faith or relegion{sub relegion} in the world that critics do bash with almost full understanding, it catholicism.

Nellinator
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually catholism{or whatever the noun is} is one of the most well understood and most thought about relegion that critics bash. if theres any faith or relegion{sub relegion} in the world that critics do bash with almost full understanding, it catholicism. What do critics bash about Catholicism? They call them Mary worshippers... which is not true. They call them pagan which is also not true. They say that they are not infallible because the mistakes they have made but fail to recognize the difference between impeccibility and infallibility that is clearly acknowledged by Catholics. I am not Catholic and disagree with many of their doctrines, but most critics are completely clueless about it.
Originally posted by Schecter
i think the act of blessing anything is really silly and witch-doctorish. but i digress.



yes its generally harmless and silly. however the holy spirit was used as
a supposed conduit from god to pope which dictated political/social
movement/law over the whole of the holy roman empire.
i dont think thats what god intended. but thats all history.
now...about pat robertson. do you find his actions safe?
or do you think it blasphemy for a man to claim to be god's hired
blogger to the world (or at least america)? im sure at this point you already suspect what i think stick out tongue Well yes, there is a difference between what some people justify by the claiming the Holy Spirit and what the Holy Spirit is. Pat Robertson is generally harmless, but he is an idiot a lot of the time. What he knows and what he says are two different things. I'm not about to judge him, but he is wrong if he thinks he is the one and only messenger of God. However, I am not as familiar with many of the Evangelicals that many of you are because I'm from Canada where the church is much quieter politically and otherwise.

Devil King
Originally posted by Schecter
i think

That's where you lost most people. Despite their supposed beliefs.



Originally posted by Schecter
the holy roman empire.

This is where you lost the other half.

Atlantis001

Alliance
I also find the Holy Spirit to be the most dangerous of the Trinity.

Schecter
i always viewed the concept of the holy spirit as a guide to personal salvation and nothing more, your inner conscience and sense of right/wrong. kinda like on-star for the soul. i dont believe it sould be stricken from the record, but i do think that the act of using it to impose one's will on another should be condemned as the highest form of blasphemy. in essence whoever pulls that routine is pretty much declaring themselves to be a messenger of god...a false prophet. its even believed that these evangelical preachers have the power to heal with their touch (presumably they are god's copper wire?). this is how far its spun out of control.

and nell, in america pat robertson is influential to the point of dangerous, considering his widespread influence, especially over the neoconservative party, particularly the current administration...not to turn it political, just wanted to stress that he is far more than your run-of-the-mill "put your hand on the TV screen and pray with me/be healed/send money" crackpot

Atlantis001

Schecter
Originally posted by Atlantis001

But I will not extent the title of false prophet to everyone.

i disagree. i would apply that title to anyone who claims to channel the power of god in a way that i cannot, or claims to recieve messages from god which in his infinite wisdom chose to withhold from everyone else. if someone claims that, they may as well declare themselves a prophet imho or what else could they possibly be suggesting?

Atlantis001
Originally posted by Schecter
i disagree. i would apply that title to anyone who claims to channel the power of god in a way that i cannot, or claims to recieve messages from god which in his infinite wisdom chose to withhold from everyone else. if someone claims that, they may as well declare themselves a prophet imho or what else could they possibly be suggesting?

Jesus claimed it, Moses claimed it. The Jewish priests were thinking exactly like this when then claimed that Jesus was a false prophet.

Schecter
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Jesus claimed it, Moses claimed it. The Jewish priests were thinking exactly like this when then claimed that Jesus was a false prophet.

i understand. such is the peril and hardship of a prophet. for if not, and we accept all who claim to be prophets, where would that lead us besides stright to oblivion?

Atlantis001

Shakyamunison

Atlantis001
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Are you saying that there are things like prophets? eek!

Not prophet like you might be thinking big grin its just a word. I think there are people who can communicate with God in someway or another, and the purpose of spirituality is about learning how to comunicate with God in someway... like Jesus did, like Siddharta did

Schecter

Atlantis001

Devil King
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Jesus claimed it, Moses claimed it. The Jewish priests were thinking exactly like this when then claimed that Jesus was a false prophet.

Does God really need your money? Did Jesus or Moses ask for your money?

debbiejo
Nope they didn't. They did say to help the needy and have a good heart.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Schecter
i always viewed the concept of the holy spirit as a guide to personal salvation and nothing more, your inner conscience and sense of right/wrong. kinda like on-star for the soul. i dont believe it sould be stricken from the record, but i do think that the act of using it to impose one's will on another should be condemned as the highest form of blasphemy. in essence whoever pulls that routine is pretty much declaring themselves to be a messenger of god...a false prophet. its even believed that these evangelical preachers have the power to heal with their touch (presumably they are god's copper wire?). this is how far its spun out of control.

and nell, in america pat robertson is influential to the point of dangerous, considering his widespread influence, especially over the neoconservative party, particularly the current administration...not to turn it political, just wanted to stress that he is far more than your run-of-the-mill "put your hand on the TV screen and pray with me/be healed/send money" crackpot First off, when did you get so religious? Is that part of the new persona?

Now, I believe in healing through the power of the spirit, but briefly touching someone does not follow the common pattern of healing in the Bible. Normally a prayer is needed and sometimes more. The laying on of hands is sometimes used by a touch rarely does it in scripture unless it the other person reaching out, not the other way around.

I'm starting to understand that, I just find it odd that I don't ever hear about Robertson, but I do hear a lot of other evangelicals in America...

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