Can you handle the Truth?

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JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Strangelove
a) because there's no way of knowing that it's really the truth.
b) because some of the 'truths' in the Bible are rather undesirable.

Goddess Kali
laughing

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Strangelove
a) because there's no way of knowing that it's really the truth.
b) because some of the 'truths' in the Bible are rather undesirable.

I think that you hit the nail on the head in part b of your reply. But I would take it a step further and propound that many (not some) of the truths revealed in Scripture are very (not rather) undesirable because the Bible exposes us for who we truly are. The Bible tells us (without making any apologies, softsoaking the situation, or mitigating it) that we are all unrighteous, that we are sinners, that all of our righteousness (i.e. good works) are like filthy rags, that we are spiritually dead, that we are Hell-bound, and that we need Jesus Christ in order to be saved from all of these realities.

Strangelove
Yes, but the main point I made was point A (that's why it was first). How does anyone know that Christianity, or any religion for that matter, is the truth?

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think that you hit the nail on the head in part b of your reply. But I would take it a step further and propound that many (not some) of the truths revealed in Scripture are very (not rather) undesirable because the Bible exposes us for who we truly are. The Bible tells us (without making any apologies, softsoaking the situation, or mitigating it) that we are all unrighteous, that we are sinners, that all of our righteousness (i.e. good works) are like filthy rags, that we are spiritually dead, that we are Hell-bound, and that we need Jesus Christ in order to be saved from all of these realities.


yeah yeah yeah, whatever

JesusIsAlive
For example, Goddess Kali (the artist formerly known as Lord Urizen) asked me what God thought of his love for his boyfriend. Well, the Bible does not "specifically" reveal what God thinks of your love for your boyfriend (unless it is purely non-sexual and non-romantic i.e. like the love you have for a close friend or a pet). But I believe that He deems it ungodly, sinful, and an abomination. I apologize if my direct, straightforward manner is offensive to you, I sincerely do not intend to hurt your feelings. But the truth is the truth. Can you handle it?

Darth Macabre
Because your supposed "truths" aren't my truths, or, in this case, everyone's (humanity as a whole).

JesusIsAlive
The reason I put my answer in this thread is because I sincerely do not want to offend you Goddess Kali so I wanted to test the waters first by asking the the question, "Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?" However, I did want to respond to your query, and I have.

Strangelove
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
For example, Goddess Kali (the artist formerly known as Lord Urizen) asked me what God thought of his love for his boyfriend. Well, the Bible does not "specifically" reveal what God thinks of your love for your boyfriend. But I believe that He deems it ungodly, sinful, and an abomination. I apologize if my direct, straightforward manner is offensive to you, I sincerely do not intend to hurt your feelings. But the truth is the truth. Can you handle it? You betray a fatal flaw here. You clarified that you believe that homosexuality is ungodly, sinful, and an abomination, and then you claimed it as the truth. If, as you claim, God does not have a specific stance on homosexuality, as per the Bible, how can you claim that your own position is the truth?

Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

JIA you have shown you cannot handle the truth.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
For example, Goddess Kali (the artist formerly known as Lord Urizen) asked me what God thought of his love for his boyfriend. Well, the Bible does not "specifically" reveal what God thinks of your love for your boyfriend (unless it is purely non-sexual and non-romantic i.e. like the love you have for a close friend or a pet). But I believe that He deems it ungodly, sinful, and an abomination. I apologize if my direct, straightforward manner is offensive to you, I sincerely do not intend to hurt your feelings. But the truth is the truth. Can you handle it?


laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Strangelove
You betray a fatal flaw here. You clarified that you believe that homosexuality is ungodly, sinful, and an abomination, and then you claimed it as the truth. If, as you claim, God does not have a specific stance on homosexuality, as per the Bible, how can you claim that your own position is the truth?

Strangelove, sir, here is what Goddess Kali asked me:

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
No..no..noo...u did not answer my question...please stop vomitting your ignorance...




You just said God loves me the same way I would love my mother despite her past acts of smoking....what does God think of my LOVE, no my sexual or romantic attraction to my boyfreind...my LOVE for him....

Let me guess...it's invalid roll eyes (sarcastic)

If this love is non-romantic and non-sexual (like the platonic, brotherly love that you have for a close friend or relative) then there is nothing wrong with it. So, I was not making an arbitrary, value judgment about my stance on homosexuality (I side with God). Did I answer your reply Strangelove?

Shakyamunison
Stop quoting JIA, it makes the fact that I have him ignored moot. laughing

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The reason I put my answer in this thread is because I sincerely do not want to offend you Goddess Kali so I wanted to test the waters first by asking the the question, "Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?" However, I did want to respond to your query, and I have.


JIA, I am so flattered that you would dedicate an entire thread to our discussion...you used to just ignore all my questions...you hardly even posted me...now you make an entire thread dedicated to me.


I am impressed and flattered thumb up


I do not take offense to what you say. I have changed. I do not take offense to anyone's perspective or beleif. You're beleif is simply your beleif, which you have the right to possess.


However, I do not recognize it as truth.


Love cannot be an abomination....if God hates my Love for my boyfreind (which is sexual as well as romantic and human), then I reject your God.



My boyfreind means far more to me than an imaginary mythological character...I do not mean to offend you JIA...but the Truth is the Truth

Strangelove
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If this love is non-romantic and non-sexual (like the platonic, brotherly love that you have for a close friend or relative) then there is nothing wrong with it. So, I was not making an arbitrary, value judgment about my stance on homosexuality (I side with God). Did I answer your reply Strangelove? Yes you did. My mistake.

My point still remains, however. How can you be sure that the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Christian God are actually the truth? It's all blind faith, but you and others claim it to be the absolute truth without any proof. How can you be sure?

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Strangelove
Yes you did. My mistake.

My point still remains, however. How can you be sure that the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Christian God are actually the truth? It's all blind faith, but you and others claim it to be the absolute truth without any proof. How can you be sure?


Faith



laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Strangelove
Yes you did. My mistake.

My point still remains, however. How can you be sure that the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Christian God are actually the truth? It's all blind faith, but you and others claim it to be the absolute truth without any proof. How can you be sure?

This might seem like an illustration from left field but...here it goes. In the movie The Return of the Jedi (I think this is the correct Star Wars sequel) Yoda tells Luke Skywalker that there is no try, there is only do. If you truly desire to know whether the Bible is true, then do what it says (notice, I did not say try--I said do, what the Bible says). If the Bible is not true then nothing that it says will work. For example, if you sincerely admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner, that you have sinned, that you are lost without Him, then sincerely confess that He is Lord and that you believe that God raised Him from the dead (in essence asking Jesus Christ to save you from your sins), you will be saved. If you do all of this and do not have a realization of the fact that you are saved then the Bible is not true. But you must be sincere for it to work.

Darth Jello
because jack chick is a bigoted insane creepy old fart

Strangelove
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This might seem like an illustration from left field but...here it goes. In the movie The Return of the Jedi (I think this is the correct Star Wars sequel) Yoda tells Luke Skywalker that there is no try, there is only do. If you truly desire to know whether the Bible is true, then do what it says (notice, I did not say try--I said do, what the Bible says). If it is not true than nothing that it says will work. For example, if you sincerely admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner, that you have sinned, that you are lost without Him, then sincerely confess that He is Lord and that you believe that God raised Him from the dead (in essence asking Jesus Christ to save you from your sins), you will be saved. If you do all of this and do not have a realization of the fact that you are saved then the Bible is not true. But you must be sincere for it to work.
That's not an answer to my question. You answered some question in an alternate dimension where I asked whether there are degrees of obedience to God's word (assuming that the word of God is true). But it's most definitely not the question I asked.

My question is a direct response to the title of your thread, Can you Handle the Truth? My question is, how do you know it's the truth? How can you be so sure?

Goddess Kali
JIA, can u handle my response ?




I don't thnk u can handle it ! WOOOOO !!!!


Better move

cuz we arrived

lookn sexy


looking fly


baddest chick

chick inside

DJ

jam the mike

spotted me..a tender thing...

there you are ...come on baby

dont u wanna

dance with me


can u handle...handle me ?



YOU GOTTA DO MUCH BETTA

IF U GON DANCE WITH ME TO-NIGHHTT


U GOTTA WORK YO JELLY

IF U GON DANCE WITH ME TOONIGHHT


READ MY LIPS CAREFULLY


IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU SEE


MOVE, GROOVE, PROVE

U CAN HANG WITH ME

BY THE LOOKS I GOT YA SHOOK UP N SCARED OF ME


BUCKLE YO SEAT BELT, ITS TIME FOR TAKE OFF.....




I DONT THNK UR READY FOR THIS JELLY

I DONT THNK UR READY FOR THIS JELLY

I DONT THNK UR READY FOR THIS JELLY


AND MY BODY TOO BOOTYLICIOUS FOR YA BABE

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Strangelove
That's not an answer to my question. You answered some question in an alternate dimension where I asked whether there are degrees of obedience to God's word (assuming that the word of God is true). But it's most definitely not the question I asked.

My question is a direct response to the title of your thread, Can you Handle the Truth? My question is, how do you know it's the truth? How can you be so sure?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This might seem like an illustration from left field but...here it goes. In the movie The Return of the Jedi (I think this is the correct Star Wars sequel) Yoda tells Luke Skywalker that there is no try, there is only do. If you truly desire to know whether the Bible is true, then do what it says (notice, I did not say try--I said do, what the Bible says). If the Bible is not true then nothing that it says will work. For example, if you sincerely admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner, that you have sinned, that you are lost without Him, then sincerely confess that He is Lord and that you believe that God raised Him from the dead (in essence asking Jesus Christ to save you from your sins), you will be saved. If you do all of this and do not have a realization of the fact that you are saved then the Bible is not true. But you must be sincere for it to work.


The above post is a way for you (or anyone else who sincerely desires to know the Truth) to test the Bible personally. It is a practical, hands-on-approach response to your philosophical question. How do you know that you are your parents child? Well, there are a number of ways that you can attempt to verify this. The primary way for you to determine whether you are truly your parents offspring is through a DNA test/analysis. This is a scientific approach to assuaging any doubts that you may have about your lineage. Similary, I have suggested a way for you to know for yourself if the Bible is true or not. Do what it says (the only stipulation is that you must be truly sincere) and see whether it bears itself out.


1 John 5:14
Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.


You can know that the Bible is true if you (sincerely) ask Jesus Christ to reveal its Truth to you.


2 Timothy 3:7
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


So many people are in this situation. They are constantly learning all types of information, and accumulating degree after degree, but they have never come to a knowledge of what truly matters. The knowledge of salvation through Jesus Christ (and through Him alone) is the most important knowledge that we will ever learn. A person can get a degree (or not get one) and gain the whole world (materially, socially, financially, etc.) but lose his/her soul in Hell for eternity. This begs the question: was it truly wise to do this? Was it truly worth it? The answer is emphatically no.


1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


God truly desires for all people to be saved AND to come to a knowledge of the Truth. So, the Truth relative to the Bible is knowable and it is God's will for you to know it Strangelove (or anyone else reading this post).

Strangelove
Not really. You haven't answered why you think the Bible or anything do with Christianity is actually the Truth. What denomination of Christianity are you?

You say to "ask Jesus Christ to reveal the truth." How can you be sure Jesus is the truth? You make many more references to the Bible and God, but I reiterate, you have no proof that it is the truth, so what gives you the conviction that all you say is the truth?

JesusIsAlive
Disclaimer: There is absolutely nothing wrong with attaining degree after degree or being wealthy (financially, materially, etc.) or socially popular etc. The problem arises when we do the aforementioned to the neglect of the most pressing and important: being saved/born again. The Scriptural principle is for us (all) to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all of the these things that we need/desire will be added (not subtracted) to us.


Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.


The moral of the story is: get saved first (get this area of your life settled) then go out and achieve your dreams. God will help bring you into His plan for your life (which will be greater than anything that you could have ever imagined). You think that you know what makes you fulfilled (not just happy but fulfilled, there is a difference). Your joy will be full when you are doing what the Lord God has destined for you to do. There is nothing like being in the center of God's perfect will for your life.

Goddess Kali
Umm....JIA you are not answering his question.....

Alliance
Hell, I wouldn't answer you either stick out tongue

JesusIsAlive

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, like Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi" I did what the Bible said do. Jesus put it this way:

laughing out loud Someone please remind me where Luke said that in Jedi.

Alliance
It was all hypocrisy anyway.

AngryManatee
youpiThis thread should be re-titled "Can you handle the opinion?" yes

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by AngryManatee
This thread should be re-titled "Can you handle the opinion?"

What makes you say this AngryManatee? Can you handle the truth?


http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6016/bizarroqe8.jpg


I just wanted to add some levity to this thread.

AngryManatee
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What makes you say this AngryManatee? Can you handle the truth?


http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6016/bizarroqe8.jpg


I just wanted to add some levity to this thread.

It's not the truth. It's a belief that you hold to be true, and is thus your opinion. Hence "Can you handle the opinion?"

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by AngryManatee
It's not the truth. It's a belief that you hold to be true, and is thus your opinion. Hence "Can you handle the opinion?"


Well, what makes you say that it is my belief that I hold to be true as opposed to it being the Truth?


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1184/starbuckscupja3.png


This cup speaks volumes.

Alliance
Notice how that cartoon is from www.BIZARRO.com

Nellinator
Personally, yes I did. Upon close inspection I was able to discern "BIZZARO.com" written in the bottom right corner. I'm pretty proud of this achievement.

Strangelove

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by Strangelove
Again, you refuse to answer my question. You assert that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, and anything else, but you have yet to say why you believe that, which was in fact my question.

You and I believe in different truths. What makes your "truth" more valid than mine? Because....just because, man!

Devil King
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Because you're partial and wrong

Storm
Because everything in the scriptures requires interpretation. No one takes everything in the Bible in the exact same literal manner. You pick and choose, deciding how to best interpret and implement what you read based upon your beliefs, prejudices, and cultural context. There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

fini
WOY

you tell him Storm.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Storm
Because everything in the scriptures requires interpretation. No one takes everything in the Bible in the exact same literal manner. You pick and choose, deciding how to best interpret and implement what you read based upon your beliefs, prejudices, and cultural context.

True but as far as I know the Bible was originally supposed to be intepreted metaphorically. Obvoulsy people intepret things in different ways but alot of fundamentalism isnt really an "opinion". What I mean is that they know deep down inside that they are full of **** they are just creating a reality for themselves to make them feel better about themselves.

Originally posted by Storm


There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

Yeahhhh but im sure there are somethings that some or alot of people would agree on.

Atlantis001
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Oh dear God !

AngryManatee
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, what makes you say that it is my belief that I hold to be true as opposed to it being the Truth?


Because it is your belief... no expression What makes you think that your beliefs are the truth as opposed to other people's beliefs?

Alliance
Originally posted by Storm
There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

A universal truth in itself.

There is universal truth.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Because they know the bible is not the truth

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by muslimscholar
Because they know the bible is not the truth



thumb up

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Because you do not know what the truth is.

{{QS}}
The Truth according to the bible says that you can't eat a chameleon.The Truth according to the bible requires modification

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by {{QS}}
The Truth according to the bible says that you can't eat a chameleon.The Truth according to the bible requires modification

Not again..._a

Regret
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"

Jesus is either
1)mentally ill
2) lying
3) joking
4) or what He said that He is, the only way to God the Father.

There is no evidence or reason to suggest that Jesus was mentally ill. Lying is a sin and the Bible states that Jesus never sinned. We have no record in the Bible of Jesus ever telling any jokes. So the only alternative is that Jesus spoke truly.

There are no other alternatives. It is possible from a secular position that there is no "God the Father" and Christ was deluded in the same manner that the secular position believes you to be.

Given this, for anyone who does not believe the "Truth" that you do, you must first provide proper evidence of such truth. You have never understood this, and as such you evidence your disdain for those not holding your particular beliefs.

Why anyone continues speaking with you is beyond me. I have merely responded to try once again to show you an error in your behaviors, as well as attempting to clarify their question.

Here is a quote that often applies and I often forget as I get embroiled in debates:Why can you not handle the Truth JIA?

InnerRise
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible? Because it is the basis of everything that they believe in and I don't think they want someone coming in and telling them their interpretation of the truth as it pertains to the bible when their interpretation may be much different, especially if you're just slamming the Bible because you don't believe in any of it at all.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

debbiejo
Who's to say that my truth isn't the truth? Why should I chose yours over my own.

Strangelove

inimalist
Originally posted by debbiejo
Who's to say that my truth isn't the truth? Why should I chose yours over my own.

I think its pretty safe to say that any "truth" an individual holds is not in any way representitive of the real "truth".

AngryManatee
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Jesus is either
1)mentally ill
2) lying
3) joking
4) or what He said that He is, the only way to God the Father.


There is no evidence or reason to suggest that Jesus was mentally ill. Lying is a sin and the Bible states that Jesus never sinned. We have no record in the Bible of Jesus ever telling any jokes. So the only alternative is that Jesus spoke truly.

There are no other alternatives.

You forgot
5) there is no physical evidence to suggest that he was the messiah, nor evidence to suggest that your interpretation of the "Truth" is the correct one.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret



Given this, for anyone who does not believe the "Truth" that you do, you must first provide proper evidence of such truth. You have never understood this, and as such you evidence your disdain for those not holding your particular beliefs.






Well, I have read everything that you have written Regret and I understand what you are saying. However, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say, "Go into all the world and prove the gospel" or "Go into all the world and provide evidence for the gospel." Can you provide any Scriptural support for why you believe that I should as you put it,

"...first provide proper evidence of such truth."?

I fully understood that many people no matter what you tell them are just not going to believe the gospel. Just because I don't give up does not mean that I do not understand that. I honestly do not believe that I disdain those who do not believe the gospel. The gospel, the Bible, and the truth that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world is not (nor has it ever been) my particular beliefs. Like Jesus told the Jews at the Feast in Jerusalem, Regret I tell you, my doctrine is not mine, but His Who sent me. The message that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him is not my doctrine, Regret, sir, but Jesus Christ's. But I do see where you are coming from I just do not subscribe to it.



John 7:16
Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.



Finally, Regret the Scripture reference that you provided does not apply to me for a number of reasons. Here is what you quoted:



Titus 3: 9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.



The apostle Paul modifies the terms that he instructs Timothy to avoid and thus putting them into proper context. Paul says to avoid foolish questions. My questions are not foolish because they are centered on God's Word. Second, Paul says to avoid genealogies. There are numerous genealogies recorded in the Bible. Do you honestly believe that God put those genealogies there for no reason? I have not dealt with any genealogies but the point is if I did I would be just in doing so because I do not believe that they are in the Bible just because or that they are just superfluous or incidental. Third, Paul says to avoid contentions. Again, the context is foolish contentions. I don't contend foolishly, I make sure that everything that I present for discussion is Scripturally tenable.

Regret, are you aware of the fact that the Bible states that we are to contend for the faith?



Jude 1:3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.



So contention in itself is not wrong, we are simply admonished not to contend foolishly. Besides, the context is referring to contentions about the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), not to general, Bible-based contentions. So, contention is not bad if it is done correctly and peaceably as I do. Finally, Paul mentions strivings about the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). Again, I do not fit the description because I am not striving number one and number two I am not talking about the Law of Moses. Most of what I present is derived from the New Testament. So, I will end on this note:



Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.



1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

JesusIsAlive

fini
PEEPS................... could we just ignore this thread, so that, THAT idiot can talk to himself and not annoy us????

debbiejo
The Spirit of Truth is just that. It is truth and it doesn't matter where it comes from. It could come from Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Pagans, Wiccans. Truth is truth. A person doesn't need a book to say what the truth is. It's just obvious.

Strangelove

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by fini
PEEPS................... could we just ignore this thread, so that, THAT idiot can talk to himself and not annoy us????

It is not kind for you to refer to me as an idiot, I have never referred to you as an idiot. Do you think that it is fair for you to refer to me as an idiot?. You are a Muslim correct? Do all Muslims refer to other people as idiots unprovoked?

Alliance
{edit}

Strangelove
Originally posted by Alliance
OHH THE HYPOCRISY Huh? Am I the hypocrite, or JIA? confused

Alliance
laughing

Oh.. I thought JIA wrote that. embarrasment

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is not kind for you to refer to me as an idiot, I have never referred to you as an idiot. Do you think that it is fair for you to refer to me as an idiot?. You are a Muslim correct? Do all Muslims refer to other people as idiots unprovoked?


She is going to call you an idiot again, because she is Hindu...not Muslim...you do know the difference, right ? erm

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Strangelove
Okay, quick thing. When you quote Scripture to me, you are avoiding the question. When I ask why you believe in what you believe in, and then you quote Scripture, it seems a lot like circular reasoning (e.g. using the Bible to prove itself).

You say that the Holy Spirit revealed the Truth to you. How can you be so sure it's the truth? why do you believe that it's the truth? This is a personal question for YOU, JIA. I do not want you quoting Scripture to answer my question, because it's a non-answer. You cannot answer a question about your personal beliefs by quoting a book that someone else wrote.

Strangelove, when I quote a Scripture to you I am providing you with support for what I believe. But, when I expound a Scripture I am explaining why I believe what the Scripture states. So, that means that I have provided you with the what and the why reasons for my beliefs.

I have written a number of (detailed) posts to you Strangelove that explain what you want to know. But I will entertain yet further. Strangelove, there is no way for me to explain to YOU what Truth is like, because there is nothing to compare it with/to. Have you ever tried to explain something to someone but you didn't know how to "fully" express or convey what you were trying to say? For example, let's say that you discovered a new color. How would you describe that new color to someone else when it doesn't look like any colors that already exist, and it does not look like any combination of colors that you could mix? Here is what you say: "I have discovered a new color, it looks like...and it has...it is beautiful because...." Similarly, I do not truly know how to describe Truth. Truth must be experienced because the only description or definition that I can provide for Truth is that it is Jesus Christ. Truth is not some dictionary meaning or explanation, it is a Person. Once you experience Truth you will know what it is because it is self-revealing. But it must be experienced. The definition and description of Truth is found within, and revealed by or through Truth itself. Just as Heat is hot, cold is cold, up is up, down is down, Truth is Truth. Your question is like asking someone how they know that they are alive. Well alive means that you are not physically dead. This is the universally accepted definition of alive relative to human beings. Well, how do I know that Truth is Truth and that it is the Truth? Because Truth is Jesus Christ (this is the description and definition of Truth). So, Truth must be experienced it cannot be explained or described except in the Person of Jesus Christ. Again, Truth is Truth just like alive is alive, eggs are eggs, green is green. The definition of green corresponds to the color of green. Well, the definition of Truth corresponds to Jesus Christ because that is Who/what Truth is.

Do you understand Strangelove?

Goddess Kali
JESUSISALIVE LETS HAVE SEX droolio



COME ON U KNOW U WANT 2 dd




**************************************************
**



I kind of gave up debating with you, because your mind is closed off...you will automatically reject all perspectives that do not coincide with your own. So until you actually consider the validity of another's point, I will take nothing you say serious.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
laughing out loud Someone please remind me where Luke said that in Jedi.

I believe it is where luke and Yoda are in a cave or near a pond. Luke's aircraft crashed into the pond and Yoda was trying to teach Luke to use the force to lift it from the pond. Luke said something to the effect that he would try. Yoda reproved Luke telling him to do or do not, there is no try.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I believe it is where luke and Yoda are in a cave or near a pond. Luke's aircraft crashed into the pond and Yoda was trying to teach Luke to use the force to lift it from the pond. Luke said something to the effect that he would try. Yoda reproved Luke telling him to do or do not, there is no try.

-That was The Empire Strikes Back

-What the hell does that have to do with the Bible?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
-That was The Empire Strikes Back

-What the hell does that have to do with the Bible?

I used the example to illustrate the fact that the the truths contained in the Bible must be acted on (i.e. done not tried) to reap the intended benefits.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I used the example to illustrate the fact that the the truths contained in the Bible must be acted on (i.e. done not tried) to reap the intended benefits.

Thats funny.

debbiejo
Well luke is in both stories. Where's Matthew and Mark?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by AngryManatee
You forgot
5) there is no physical evidence to suggest that he was the messiah, nor evidence to suggest that your interpretation of the "Truth" is the correct one.

You sound cocksure. Likewise AngryManatee, there is no physical evidence to suggest that He is not.

AngryManatee
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You sound cocksure.

it's better then vaginasure. I put that up there because none of your choices had the option of some other religion's god(s) being the true god, nor an option of there not being a god.

Strangelove
Originally posted by Alliance
laughing

Oh.. I thought JIA wrote that. embarrasment For some reason my text turned blue, I understand laughing

Strangelove
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have written a number of (detailed) posts to you Strangelove that explain what you want to know. I sincerely disagree

BackFire
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

It's not offended, it's annoyed. There is a difference.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by BackFire
It's not offended, it's annoyed. There is a difference.



thumb up

Nellinator
Originally posted by BackFire
It's not offended, it's annoyed. There is a difference. By far the most serious post I've ever seen by BackFire.

Goddess Kali
Nell, I am sure you are equally annoyed when people tell you your religion if false

Nellinator
Nah, just when they make stupid arguments against it. If you just plain reject it I can deal with it.

Goddess Kali
What arguments would constitute as stupid ?




And I love this thread, it's hilarious

Nellinator
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
What arguments would constitute as stupid ?




And I love this thread, it's hilarious Yours stick out tongue
Seriously though, some of yours do the trick, but I'm convinced you recycle many of them just to piss me off so I get over it. I don't want to get into specifics but basically anything that has been debunked more than once by a vast majority of scholars and people still considering them valid arguements.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yours stick out tongue
Seriously though, some of yours do the trick, but I'm convinced you recycle many of them just to piss me off so I get over it. I don't want to get into specifics but basically anything that has been debunked more than once by a vast majority of scholars and people still considering them valid arguements.


Do you mean my arguments about Jesus being Gay ?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Do you mean my arguments about Jesus being Gay ? Actually no because I know better than to take that seriously. I don't want to get into this.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually no because I know better than to take that seriously. I don't want to get into this.


He was a homo u know....

Nellinator
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
He was a homo u know.... Obviously.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Nellinator
Obviously.


8=====D

Nellinator
How clever no expression Keep it to your penis thread please stick out tongue

Goddess Kali
It was closed sad

fini
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is not kind for you to refer to me as an idiot, I have never referred to you as an idiot. Do you think that it is fair for you to refer to me as an idiot?. You are a Muslim correct? Do all Muslims refer to other people as idiots unprovoked?

I AM NOT A MUSLIM. GOOD grief you really are THICK headed.

AND You are a person who says nothing at all with your own brain power. Just here to quote other people and to only show HOW VERY WELL THOSE EVANGELICALS CAN BRAIN WASH WEAK MINDED INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOURSELF.

I PITY YOU and all like you.

and no, I dont dislike christians. I am marrying one, and he came on the site to see the foolishness that you post and was astounded as to how these NEW CHRISTIAN FAITHS prey on the WEAK!
__________________________________________________
_____________
EDIT:
Definition IDIOT

An unlearned, ignorant, or simple person, as distinguished from the educated; an ignoramus

http://www.dictionary.net/idiot

VOILA!!!!!

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by fini
I AM NOT A MUSLIM. GOOD grief you really are THICK headed.

AND You are a person who says nothing at all with your own brain power. Just here to quote other people and to only show HOW VERY WELL THOSE EVANGELICALS CAN BRAIN WASH WEAK MINDED INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOURSELF.

I PITY YOU and all like you.

and no, I dont dislike christians. I am marrying one, and he came on the site to see the foolishness that you post and was astounded as to how these NEW CHRISTIAN FAITHS prey on the WEAK!
__________________________________________________
_____________
EDIT:
Definition IDIOT

An unlearned, ignorant, or simple person, as distinguished from the educated; an ignoramus

http://www.dictionary.net/idiot

VOILA!!!!!


I apologize for thinking that you were Muslim (I must have confused you with someone else on this forum).

Fini, I don't recall asking you if you disliked Christians. Me weak-minded? I say nothing at all with my own brain power? You pity me? Me posting foolishness?

Fini, God loves you and so do I (with godly, Christian love of course).

Have a good day.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I apologize for thinking that you were Muslim (I must have confused you with someone else on this forum).

Fini, I don't recall asking you if you disliked Christians. Me weak-minded? I say nothing at all with my own brain power? You pity me? Me posting foolishness?

Fini, God loves you and so do I (with godly, Christian love of course).

Have a good day.

Why don't you take the time to make friends of people like fini before you start to preach to them?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why don't you take the time to make friends of people like fini before you start to preach to them?

I have never preached to fini.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have never preached to fini.

You have never tried to be a friend.

IMO any time a person makes an unsolicited statement and then gives scripture is preaching.

fini
Being WEak of mind says NOTHING about your brain power.

OH come on man, DO we have to explain everything we say to you, while you say nothing USEFUL ever??????????????

And dude, you are PREACHING, preaching to everyone, even to the binary code. .................. poor binary code.

And god loves everyone. God loves everyone in only ONE way............. AND THAT IS THE WAY WE SAY GOD SHOULD LOVE US.......... not a christian way, not a hindu way, not a Bahai way.............. JUST THE WAY we believe IT should.

but of course such logic is beyond your closed mind to HANDLE

Can you handle THAT??

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by fini
Being WEak of mind says NOTHING about your brain power.

OH come on man, DO we have to explain everything we say to you, while you say nothing USEFUL ever??????????????

And dude, you are PREACHING, preaching to everyone, even to the binary code. .................. poor binary code.

And god loves everyone. God loves everyone in only ONE way............. AND THAT IS THE WAY WE SAY GOD SHOULD LOVE US.......... not a christian way, not a hindu way, not a Bahai way.............. JUST THE WAY we believe IT should.

but of course such logic is beyond your closed mind to HANDLE

Can you handle THAT??

You tell him girl... wink

fini
hehe

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by fini
Being WEak of mind says NOTHING about your brain power.

OH come on man, DO we have to explain everything we say to you, while you say nothing USEFUL ever??????????????

And dude, you are PREACHING, preaching to everyone, even to the binary code. .................. poor binary code.

And god loves everyone. God loves everyone in only ONE way............. AND THAT IS THE WAY WE SAY GOD SHOULD LOVE US.......... not a christian way, not a hindu way, not a Bahai way.............. JUST THE WAY we believe IT should.

but of course such logic is beyond your closed mind to HANDLE

Can you handle THAT??

Fini, why are you so bitter? Would you like to receive Christ as your Lord and Savior?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fini, why are you so bitter? Would you like to receive Christ as your Lord and Savior?

So, you don't preach? roll eyes (sarcastic)

lord xyz
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible? Go away troll.

Strangelove
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fini, why are you so bitter? Would you like to receive Christ as your Lord and Savior? I don't know why, but that cracked me up lol

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Yes, that is not life coming from non-life. That is Life coming from prior Life babe wink

In the case of evolution you are correct. However, with regard to the Big Bang Theory you would be incorrect. According to the Big Bang Theory the universe purportedly came into existence from a sudden, random, chance, atomic, explosion of dense, hot, matter--which is admittedly non-organic or non-living (i.e. non-life). And through the (highly improbable) Primordial Soup Theory emerged the first cell from amino acids.

cool

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In the case of evolution you are correct. However, with regard to the Big Bang Theory you would be incorrect. According to the Big Bang Theory the universe purportedly came into existence from a sudden, random, chance, atomic, explosion of dense, hot, matter--which is admittedly non-organic or non-living (i.e. non-life). And through the (highly improbable) Primordial Soup Theory emerged the first cell from amino acids.

cool



Yes, but you are isolating the Big Bang Theory from the Big Crunch Theory.



According to the Theory of the Big Crunch, the Universe will collapse on itself, slowly, but inevitably. This mass of energy will cause another Big Bang, which will birth another universe, then collapse again causing another big crunch, and so on...


I beleive in a Cycle of Birth and Rebirth. Not just because I am Buddhist, but I have beleived this long before. IT was the only thing that made any real sense to me.


If you think of the Universe, Time and Space, as linear, then yes it would be confusing to understand that life emerged from non life. But I think of the Universe, Time and Space, as a circle. No beginning, No End. Just a series of beginnings and endings.

Microscopic life can form into multicellular life...this much is proven.

But that would leave the question..where does microscopic life come from ?



Well, according to Buddhism, our being is composed of the Five Aggregates, one of them being conciousness....in the long run, Life is not that different from non life. Living and Non Living bodies are all composed of the same matter and all contain energy. The difference is Living Beings possess sentience, while others do not.



Anyways, it's a long explanation, and If you would like to hear it, I'd be glad to tell you. I am happy you responded to me with this post, because you actually challenged me, and invited me to challenge you....but when I say challenge, I don't mean as in antagonize or enforce...you stated a fact, and an intelligent conclusion out of your own knowledge (not someone else's) and gave me the way to respond in the same manner. thumb up

Atlantis001

Regret

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
I think it is amusing when people state that science believes in "chance" in the traditional sense of the word. Chance is a term that, when used by a proper scientist, refers to an event beyond our current level of understanding, or in reference to probability. Everything is governed by laws and there is no "chance", there is merely our lack of full understanding of the laws that govern all aspects of the occurrence being spoken of. The "big bang" did not occur by chance, "evolution" and "life" did not occur by chance, they occurred through laws.

Hey! Goddess Kali, read this. Happy Dance

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hey! Goddess Kali, read this. Happy Dance


I understand what he is saying, but I think you misunderstand the definition I have used for the word chance, even though I explained it a hundred times.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I understand what he is saying, but I think you misunderstand the definition I have used for the word chance, even though I explained it a hundred times.

I understood; it's just that you are talking about abstractions based on the lack of information (the real world from our point of view), and I was talking Buddhist theory.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I understood; it's just that you are talking about abstractions based on the lack of information (the real world from our point of view), and I was talking Buddhist theory.


Chance is not the same as an accident...many things just happen. Not without cause, but without purpose and justification.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Chance is not the same as an accident...many things just happen. Not without cause, but without purpose and justification.

It's the way you say it. "Just happens" means with no cause to me. big grin

Regret
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Chance is not the same as an accident...many things just happen. Not without cause, but without purpose and justification. This is inaccurate I think. The purpose of anything is to fulfill the dictates of the law that predicates it. It is justified by the law that brought it into existence. When religious people speak of these things they also grant them more meaning than they actually have, improperly attacking science with improper terminology and understanding. Everything in nature has purpose and justification, and nothing occurs by chance, at least in science.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
This is inaccurate I think. The purpose of anything is to fulfill the dictates of the law that predicates it. It is justified by the law that brought it into existence. When religious people speak of these things they also grant them more meaning than they actually have, improperly attacking science with improper terminology and understanding. Everything in nature has purpose and justification, and nothing occurs by chance, at least in science.

...and in Buddhism. wink

Regret
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
...and in Buddhism. wink ...and Mormonism (if that is the proper term) wink

fini
LOL, me bitter???
I think you've said this before and I've addressed it before.

LOL i chuckled when he said to accept jesus as a saviour. LOL glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought it was funny.

THE only thing I accept Jesus as, is THE MOST RECENT INCARNATION of god......... so he's in the SAME realm as Krishna, Buddha, Ram, Shiva TO ME.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Regret
This is inaccurate I think. The purpose of anything is to fulfill the dictates of the law that predicates it. It is justified by the law that brought it into existence. When religious people speak of these things they also grant them more meaning than they actually have, improperly attacking science with improper terminology and understanding. Everything in nature has purpose and justification, and nothing occurs by chance, at least in science.



I am talking about when "good" or "bad" things happen. People say life is unfair, but that is simply a perspective. People are hurt, not because they deserve it, or because they brought the suffering/tragedy upon themselves, but because things happen without our permission...and our suffering is due to the lack of ability to accept the event.


You don't truly know if everything in Nature has a purpose or justification. That is simply how you see it based on observation. A meteor hits the Earth, or any other planet, and wipes out all life. What was the purpose ? What was the justification ?

The cause is quite clear, the meteor and Earth crossed paths. But where is the purpose ? Where is the justification ? They're may be none. Their might not even be a point...it just happened.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's the way you say it. "Just happens" means with no cause to me. big grin


Everything happens through a cause. I never said otherwise, and you are either continuing to misunderstand my words, or you are purposely defining my point to your own terms in effort to best this debate.


I take it it's the former...when I say "just happens", i mean an event happens without purpose or justification. Nature does not need our permission to act..it does on its own. Purpose and justification are terms that WE attribute to what we see, just like when we attribute chance to uncertainty.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret
I think it is amusing when people state that science believes in "chance" in the traditional sense of the word. Chance is a term that, when used by a proper scientist, refers to an event beyond our current level of understanding, or in reference to probability. Everything is governed by laws and there is no "chance", there is merely our lack of full understanding of the laws that govern all aspects of the occurrence being spoken of. The "big bang" did not occur by chance, "evolution" and "life" did not occur by chance, they occurred through laws.


What is your definition of "law" with respect to your post?

Regret
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I am talking about when "good" or "bad" things happen. People say life is unfair, but that is simply a perspective. People are hurt, not because they deserve it, or because they brought the suffering/tragedy upon themselves, but because things happen without our permission...and our suffering is due to the lack of ability to accept the event.


You don't truly know if everything in Nature has a purpose or justification. That is simply how you see it based on observation. A meteor hits the Earth, or any other planet, and wipes out all life. What was the purpose ? What was the justification ?

The cause is quite clear, the meteor and Earth crossed paths. But where is the purpose ? Where is the justification ? They're may be none. Their might not even be a point...it just happened. You are then referencing the moral nature of the occurrence and not really the purpose and justification? I understand, but I think that appeals to such are improperly advised. It is assuming that morality and mercy can somehow impede the laws governing existence.

lord xyz
Would everyone stop giving JIA attention? He's a stupid troll, and I doubt he believes Jesus or God even exist! He'll go away eventually.

Regret
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is your definition of "law" with respect to your post? Anything that governs the behavior of anything. A principle of organization, procedure, or technique.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Everything happens through a cause. I never said otherwise, and you are either continuing to misunderstand my words, or you are purposely defining my point to your own terms in effort to best this debate.


I take it it's the former...when I say "just happens", i mean an event happens without purpose or justification. Nature does not need our permission to act..it does on its own. Purpose and justification are terms that WE attribute to what we see, just like when we attribute chance to uncertainty.


Purpose and justification is a Christian idea. But we are in the wrong thread.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Regret
You are then referencing the moral nature of the occurrence and not really the purpose and justification? I understand, but I think that appeals to such are improperly advised. It is assuming that morality and mercy can somehow impede the laws governing existence.



If you take a look around you will see that a lot of children are born with horrible diseases, and are born into unfair circumstances.

Innocent people are infected with HIV, or develop Cancer, or have some other life-threatening or extremely uncomfortable illness.


One will argue that these people deserve it...others will argue that it is thier karma, or that they are entirely responsible for everything that happens to them..the good and the bad. Others will argue that if they had God in thier life, none of this would happen.


The truth, atleast as I see it, is that there is no moral reason for why these things happen. They just do. I am not ruling out cause and effect, cause and effect have obvious workings here...my point is that there is no point to all of it.


Someone does not develop cancer because they deserve it, or because they have to experience it, or whatever. WE make up our own reasons in order to comfort us as to why these things happen....

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Purpose and justification is a Christian idea. But we are in the wrong thread.


But THAT is what I am saying....Purpose and Justification do not exist with every action, especially in the actions of nature.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But THAT is what I am saying....Purpose and Justification do not exist with every action, especially in the actions of nature.

But why even say that? I thought you where telling me that Karma is wrong because there is no purpose or justification in nature. I was telling you that Karma does not say that there is.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret
This is inaccurate I think. The purpose of anything is to fulfill the dictates of the law that predicates it. It is justified by the law that brought it into existence. When religious people speak of these things they also grant them more meaning than they actually have, improperly attacking science with improper terminology and understanding. Everything in nature has purpose and justification, and nothing occurs by chance, at least in science.

Main Entry: law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie -- more at LIE
1 a (1) : : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority

Laws don't bring anything into existence as such (they are abstract/impersonal). In the manner that you used the word "law" Regret laws are simply mechanisms whereby things or people are governed. So, laws don't create per se they simply govern or impact (depending on the circumstances) that which has already been created.

cool

Regret
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you take a look around you will see that a lot of children are born with horrible diseases, and are born into unfair circumstances.

Innocent people are infected with HIV, or develop Cancer, or have some other life-threatening or extremely uncomfortable illness.


One will argue that these people deserve it...others will argue that it is thier karma, or that they are entirely responsible for everything that happens to them..the good and the bad. Others will argue that if they had God in thier life, none of this would happen.


The truth, atleast as I see it, is that there is no moral reason for why these things happen. They just do. I am not ruling out cause and effect, cause and effect have obvious workings here...my point is that there is no point to all of it.


Someone does not develop cancer because they deserve it, or because they have to experience it, or whatever. WE make up our own reasons in order to comfort us as to why these things happen.... I agree. "They just ... there is no point to much of it" (the "children are born with horrible diseases, and are born into unfair circumstances... innocent people are infected with HIV, or develop Cancer, or have some other life-threatening or extremely uncomfortable illness."wink But, this does not mean that some law did not dictate such, science tells us that there is a reason for such. We also cannot, given our limited ability to observe and understand, state unequivocally that there is no moral point whatsoever.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by lord xyz
Would everyone stop giving JIA attention? He's a stupid troll, and I doubt he believes Jesus or God even exist! He'll go away eventually.

Stupid troll?

Why do you doubt whether I believe that Jesus or the Father exist?

Regret
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Main Entry: law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie -- more at LIE
1 a (1) : : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority

Laws don't bring anything into existence as such (they are abstract/impersonal). In the manner that you used the word "law" Regret laws are simply mechanisms whereby things or people are governed. So, laws don't create per se they simply govern or impact (depending on the circumstances) that which has already been created.

cool laughing take one single aspect of the definition and such appears true. You yourself would state, "God created everything." This would be a law. Laws are simply the observation of consistent patterns given a description by man.

"God creates" would be a law.
"1 part hydrogen 2 parts oxygen is water" would be a law.

I never stated laws created anything, they describe and govern behaviors. You obviously do not have a grasp on the concept so don't bother arguing it. My statement stands accurate even in the limited scope of your definition.

This part of the definition is not accurate btw: "prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority"

An atheist does not recognize the laws in the Bible, thus they are not laws by your definition.

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret

"...I never stated laws created anything...."

Originally posted by Regret
"...It is justified by the law that brought it into existence...."

"Create"..."bring into existence"...what is the difference? I am going somewhere with this that is why I harp on what you wrote Regret.

Atlantis001

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Atlantis001
The theory do answer what would be the cause of the Big Crunch, it is the gravitational force.

Atlantis001, can you provide a scientific answer for what the cause is for the gravitational force?

Goddess Kali

Atlantis001
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Atlantis001, can you provide a scientific answer for what the cause is for the gravitational force?

Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

The cause is the curvature of space-time. big grin

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Creationism violates the Laws of Science in every way bro, yet you still beleive in it.


There is nothing in reality to suggest that everything happens for a reason. That is something we tell ourselves to cope with the difficulties of life.


The Big Bang is the cause, Universe is cause and effect, Big Crunch is effect of the universe and cause of another Big Bang.


Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed...first law of physics. That means there is NO BEGINNING and NO END. Matter cannot just appear or be created (even though you beleive God created it all). God creating the universe violates the First Law of Physics. Therefore, logically, that idea must be false.


The idea of an Eternal Cycle of Big Bangs makes far more sense than if an all powerful character created all of it out of loneliness....

You are absolutely correct! I do believe it, which means that I am taking what the Bible says by faith. That is the difference. I take it by faith initially, then one day when I meet God face to face He can show me exactly how it all happened.

Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

So are you conceding that you cannot at least give an informal, theoretical explanation for what causes gravitational force? To me this is very important because if this cannot be answered then I fail to grasp why you and so many other people believe it (unless you accept this by faith).

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are absolutely correct! I do believe it, which means that I am taking what the Bible says by faith. That is the difference. I take it by faith initially, then one day when I meet God face to face He can show me exactly how it all happened.




I am not going to critisize you for choosing your Faith and Beleif. I am not going to even critisize the fact that you ignore the fact that Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and choose to beleive that matter was created by the God you worship.


That is your right and decision.


I am however, going to question how you expect other people to beleive what you beleive when you cannot provide them with fact. I know you beleive through Faith, I know you decide to stay loyal to who you beleive is the Father even in the face of contradicting information.

But I don't understand how you expect others to do the same. There is almost nothing in reality that can support the existance of the Biblical God. There are so many facts and discoveries out there that conflict with the teachings of the Bible.

I mean do you really think we are all ignorant or just evil, because we don't beleive the same thing ? I beleived in God for YEARS JIA...i think you are forgetting that. I grew up Christian, and prayed to God ALL THE TIME....yet I never met him, never seen him, never heard from him..atleast not in a way that I could understand or know it was him...so I gave up.


I stopped beleiving because it just didn't make sense anymore...for other reasons as well, but it just seemed kinda pointless. I don't wanna go into it, because i am trying to avoid further argument, but I think you get the idea.


So my question to you is how do you expect other people to beleive...ESPECIALLY people who TRIED living a Christian Lifestyle and saw no point in doing so ?






Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?




No it doesn't...Not if you beleive in a Cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches, and since matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, then it would make sense.


I do not beleive in it by Faith....Faith is beleif without knowledge. I am not saying Faith is beleif without support, so please do not misunderstand.


But there is much evidense to back up the Big Bang. The Big Crunch Theory is as supported, but if you consider the facts:

1) -matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed


2)-every object in the universe is moving further and further away from each other, thus the universe is expanding


3) -massive stars eventually collapse under thier own gravity, thus causing super novas



**************


Then the Big Crunch Theory makes Perfect Sense

inimalist
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?

The Big Bang theory is vastly different from the Big Crunch Theory. Big bang is the origins of the universe as we know it, Big Crunch is one of 3 viable theories for the end of the universe, and with the recent discoveries involving dark energy, it seems to be the least likely.

Why does the Big Bang violate the law of cause and effect?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by inimalist
The Big Bang theory is vastly different from the Big Crunch Theory. Big bang is the origins of the universe as we know it, Big Crunch is one of 3 viable theories for the end of the universe, and with the recent discoveries involving dark energy, it seems to be the least likely.

Why does the Big Bang violate the law of cause and effect?


What is the cause of the Big Bang? There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the cause of the Big Bang?


Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle.


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect.


Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Goddess Kali

"...I am however, going to question how you expect other people to beleive what you beleive when you cannot provide them with fact. I know you beleive through Faith, I know you decide to stay loyal to who you beleive is the Father even in the face of contradicting information...."

Well, simple: one must first believe without seeing. Once this has been accomplished over a period of time one will see what one has initially taken by faith. You see, to the believer believing is seeing (not the other way around).

debbiejo
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the cause of the Big Bang? There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect. There is an interesting theory about what caused the Big Bang. All that existed prior to the event was energy constantly flowing in a seemingly random fashion, yet synchronized at some level. This empty state of energy had been flowing for an infinite length of time. With no physical matter in existence, there was an unlimited amount of empty space. However, empty space is not really empty at all, rather it is a vacuum devoid of ll physical matter but full of quantum energy fluctuations, that is spontaneous movements sof energy. Scientists have theorized that there is enough energy in on cup of empty space to boil all the oceans on earth. Energy is present in the form of waves and ripples outward. Ripples or quantum fluctuations have an effect on each other. Random pulses interact as they bounce off or intersect with each other. When there is a higher concentration of energy in a particular region of space the probability of a quantum particle being manifested from energy fluctuations increases. .........Ta Da.....Big Bang.

The catalyst was gravity, which is the physical force that attracts particles to each other.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, simple: one must first believe without seeing. Once this has been accomplished over a period of time one will see what one has initially taken by faith. You see, to the believer believing is seeing (not the other way around).


I know what Faith is, JIA, that is not my question.


My question was how do you expect people to choose to live by Faith, when living by understanding and knowledge works just fine for them ?

I am not convinced that I need to be the same religion as you. I have been Christian for 18 years of my life, and I will not go back. It didn't work for me. It may work for you, but it didn't work for me. Do not tell me I haven't tried hard enough, because I dedicated a good 10 years of my life trying to understand my Faith, trying to live a life where I beleive instead of see...it didn't work for me.


The Bible does not work for me, it just doesnt. I am Buddhist now, and it works much better for me. I feel stronger and more content with life and people now, then I had before as a Christian.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Goddess Kali

Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle.

Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there.

"Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle."

Again, this violates the Law of Cause and Effect. Time (especially in the material world that we live in) consists of a past, present, and a future. There is no eternity in this universe (eternity is a Biblical idea and reality). I said all that to say this: since time can only be measured or better yet expressed in one of those three terms, that means that the universe had a beginning. That beginning had to have a cause in keeping with the Law of Cause and Effect.

"Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there."

The notion that matter went from a state of rest (aggregate mass or matter) to a state of motion (the product of a Big Bang explosion) is what violates Newton's Laws of Motion. Furthermore, matter couldn't have always been there because this contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect. Do you follow me Goddess Kali?

Atlantis001
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So are you conceding that you cannot at least give an informal, theoretical explanation for what causes gravitational force? To me this is very important because if this cannot be answered then I fail to grasp why you and so many other people believe it (unless you accept this by faith).


The cause is gravitational waves and gravitons.

But the problem is this one : You said that the Big Crunch theory fails to give a cause for the Big Crunch. It gives, the cause is the gravitational force. The gravitational force would push together all the matter in the universe in a single point causing the Big Crunch.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Atlantis001
The cause is gravitational waves and gravitons.

But the problem is this one : You said that the Big Crunch theory fails to give a cause for the Big Crunch. It gives, the cause is the gravitational force. The gravitational force would push together all the matter in the universe in a single point causing the Big Crunch.


Atlantis001, buddy, pal, comrade, compadre, companero you are missing my point. What I want you to do is explain what caused the gravitational waves and gravitons to exist (i.e. where did they come from)? In science everything has a cause (or at least that is what the Law of Cause and Effect states).

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