Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is TPM Darth Maul and ROTS General Grievous and it's a lightsaber duel only. Takes place on Hypori, where Grievous fought Mundi and the otehr Jedi. The combatants start on the ground, facing each other, with seventy feet between them (23.3 meters). Who wins? I'd put Maul above him if he could use the Force, but I watched ROTS again last week, and Grievous does move his sabers really fast, and Maul's form won't be at all as efficient against Grievous's as Obi-Wan's was, so I'm not really sure.

GG with realative ease.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
GG with realative ease.
Seriously? Then what do you think about if Maul got to use Force Powers (he does get to use the Force, you know, to increase his saber skills, do flips and such, just no Force Powers).

Tough fight. I can never decide.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Tough fight. I can never decide. Agree.

Grievous is stronger, faster, has mastered all 7 forms, and has his own unique unorthodox form. Maul has precognitive abilities, and isn't so robotic, but that's about it. Gman has this.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Gman has this.

G-Man, haha. I hate that bastard.

The wanabee droideka or the dude from Half-Life?

Grievous with difficulty.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
The wanabee droideka or the dude from Half-Life?

The one from Half-Life.

Yeah, that slimy muthurfvcker gave me the creeps.

Isn't ROTS GG is weaker than CW GG?

I have no clue, I haven't read LoE, and apparently it contradicts the part of the CW Cartoons where Grievous gets force crushed by Mace, and I'd imagine that LoE takes precedence, but whatever, I really have no clue.

If Dooku beat Greivous every time, then I doubt it would be a walk in the park for Greivous to beat Maul. In a pure saber confrontation, I'll give it to Greivous 6-7/10.

@ G-man.
Haha, yeah, he's one weird mofo.

And what, Dooku would beat Maul anytime as well.

Once this is ROTS GG, I say this is a close fight.

Oh my fricking god, and I'm not even joking when I say this, but Kadesh just PMed me two pictures of naked men with their faces edited out and Darth Bane masks added in.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Oh my fricking god, and I'm not even joking when I say this, but Kadesh just PMed me two pictures of naked men with their faces edited out and Darth Bane masks added in.


... That's.... cute. I guess...

No, I'm actually being serious, I'll post the PM:

Author - Kadesh

Sigh

sigh ok, since you like bane and want to stay in this forum debating, theres nothing i can do. Well since you like bane so much why not put up either one of these avatars



or



Just resize them

O yes and im trying to be nice, so dont snap it



...

Seriously, that's just weird.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Oh my fricking god, and I'm not even joking when I say this, but Kadesh just PMed me two pictures of naked men with their faces edited out and Darth Bane masks added in.



Aww great, that got me to spit out my drink all over my keyboard.

Darth Maul kicks the crap out of General Grievous. Maul is the superior fighter.

He took the time to get pictures of naked men (two, I might add), and photoshopped them? That's... creepy beyond belief.


However, since I don't have to look at naked men, and you do have a mild Bane obsession, I'm calling it fuuny. However, Kadesh gets no credit, seeing as he took the time to look at naked men to do it (unless Kadesh is homosexual, then... no, still no credit).

Originally posted by kamikz
Aww great, that got me to spit out my drink all over my keyboard.

Yeah, think about what it was like for me, I actually had to see the pictures, lol, and I'm pretty sure one of them may actually have been Kadesh.

GG wins, but its far from easy, Maul is better then any Jedi, that GG killed, but he would win at the end.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No, I'm actually being serious, I'll post the PM:

Author - Kadesh

Sigh

sigh ok, since you like bane and want to stay in this forum debating, theres nothing i can do. Well since you like bane so much why not put up either one of these avatars



or



Just resize them

O yes and im trying to be nice, so dont snap it



...

Seriously, that's just weird.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, think about what it was like for me, I actually had to see the pictures, lol, and I'm pretty sure one of them may actually have been Kadesh.


Man, now you got me to choke on my food. You trying to kill me?

Its not very wise to eat, while looking disturbing pictures.

No time no see, Count

Actually, there has been no "looking" what so ever, but I'd be dead by now if I had been....

Originally posted by vader11
No time no see, Count
Uh, don't you mean long time no see?

Originally posted by vader11
No time no see, Count

Yea, i am back, more cooler then ever before.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, i am back, more cooler then ever before.
Lol, now all you need to do is join my site...


Advent, yes, you did say valid things about Darth Maul, but everything that you stated about Grievous, in your original post, is moot.

The quote about Maul not being at full strength is from The New Essential Guide to Characters. I'll post the quote here later tonight, I have to go now.

I just had a thought, i don't think Mauls double bladed lightsaber, will do good against GG four lightsabers, i just keep picturing it and don't see Maul standing a chance, i think he would do better, with just 1. I could be wrong, though.

And Dartsith19, there is to little people on your site(at least, the last time i checked), if it was more, i would join.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Advent, yes, you did say valid things about Darth Maul
Originally posted by darthsith19
Everything single thing about Grievous that you posted was about EU Grievous. So your entire post is moot.

According to you, my "entire post" was invalid, ergo you're a contradicting dumbass who doesn't know how to properly word his sentences. Moreover, the points weren't about just Darth Maul, they were about Grievous, and how he's got x and y quality over Darth Maul when we take a comparison of a different situation. So, as you mention below, "everything (I) stated about Grievous is moot" is completely wrong, because those points are about Grievous.

And not only that, but how is this about the droid general in the Expanded Universe...

Originally posted by Advent
Losing to ROTS Obi-Wan is hardly a negative for Grievous, btw.

...when it happened in RotS? Learn2properlycomprehendbeforemakinggeneralstateme
ntssoyoudontlooklikeacompleteandutter****ingtool.


Originally posted by Advent
Oh, and proof that there's any sort of major gap in between RotS Grievous and CW Grievous? If there was, then perhaps you'd have a point, but until then (never), my argument stands. Not only that, but even if there was, the relative ease of which Grievous performed those feats suggests that he's capable of taking said victims down in his RotS incarnation without exerting himself in the least bit (save for the battle on Hypori), so they are still apart of the actual point, as in context to this fight, Darth Maul wouldn't be able to do such so easily.

Plus,

Originally posted by Advent
As it seems, that is completely true. There's few Jedi that are capable of defeating him, as we've seen many fall to his blade. We also know that he fights smart if he's being outdueled, definitely smarter than Darth Maul ever was.

How is that 'moot' in the least bit? He is more intelligent, and there's only a handful of Jedi that can defeat him in bladed combat.



Originally posted by Advent
How about elaborating, as this makes absolutely no sense, nor does it have anything to do with what I said, because it's the mere fact that he was surprised, and the like.

I doubt Greivous is smarter than Maul, Advent. Greivous is a mastermind, but Maul is an extremely talented individual, took out the Black Sun by causing them to fight amongst themselves, and was trained to be "smarter than any foe could anticipate" by Sidious.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I doubt Greivous is smarter than Maul, Advent.

I don't really care, because nothing suggests otherwise. Plus, like I said when I tore your argument in the other thread to shreds, if the world relied on what you do or don't think, we'd be in trouble.



General Grievous is a vastly skilled tactician, who lead the CIS to numerous victories against the Republic. Darth Maul is not, has not, and as it seems, cannot. I'm not seeing how Darth "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge" Maul has a damn thing on Grievous.



No, he didn't, unless this is 'fighting amongst themselves':

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7424/allofyoubf7.th.png
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4594/maulblacksunpd4.th.png

"I've come to kill you. All of you"...try learning what you're talking about first, James, as you'll find it does you no good to mix things up - only makes you look foolish. He pit two mining operations each other using stealth (wow, that says a lot!). Now, how does that prove he's more intelligent than someone like General Grievous, who wasn't chosen to be the supreme commander of the CIS for his good looks?



Hyperbole, anyone? I could bring out all the displays of his brilliance, and quotes, too. Plus, what exactly does that prove? If that is true, it doesn't mean much except they expect the near mute Sith to be as dumb as an ox. It doesn't put him above, or anywhere remotely close to Grievous, not even Obi-Wan, FFS.

Edit:

What the hell is it with all these morons trying to correct me lately? I need to get some anti-idiot repellant, these bastards are annoying as hell.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Uh, don't you mean long time no see?

Ya, I don't know why I typed wrong...><

It happens.

I know...><

Advent, calm down. I was just trying to point out that Maul isn't an idiot. Yes, Greivous has a better mid for tactics.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Advent, calm down. I was just trying to point out that Maul isn't an idiot.

I don't see where I've claimed, or implied otherwise.



Which, with all things included with that, suggests that he is more intelligent than Maul would ever be capable of. And, indeed, he is. So, I don't know how you can "doubt" something without having any reason to believe such, other than the fact your extremely mis/uninformed.

For Advent:
From The New Essential Guide to Characters:
Maul's heart burned with anticipation when his Master instructed him to hunt down two Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, on Tatooine and Naboo. Had he not run into Togorian pirates and Sand People along the way, perhaps he would have been at full strength for the conflict inside the Theed power generator.



Well, Maul could always just use one end f his saber if he chooses to. There are not that many people on my site, just about 4 or so that post regularly, but you know, you could be #5, vader11 joined there, too.

Ya, your site doesn't have many members, you should get more...

Originally posted by darthsith19
For Advent:
From The New Essential Guide to Characters:
Maul's heart burned with anticipation when his Master instructed him to hunt down two Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, on Tatooine and Naboo. Had he not run into Togorian pirates and Sand People along the way, perhaps he would have been at full strength for the conflict inside the Theed power generator.

For darthsith19,

From Advent's previous post:

"How about elaborating, as this makes absolutely no sense, nor does it have anything to do with what I said, because it's the mere fact that he was surprised, and the like."

Now, I'm just going to go ahead, and do what I've been asking you to do for the past two posts. It's called an explanation or an elaboration. This is largely irrelevant as it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact he was "caught off guard by the other's wild assault". He wasn't noted as having any problems with his mental game, ergo it doesn't matter if he was at 'full strength' or not, because he still was caught off guard (meaning he didn't expect it), him being physically injured has nothing to do with that (plus, he's was still a far more competent and able duelist than Obi-Wan was in the actual battle), he simply didn't anticipate that happening.

As I said, Darth Maul has never seen a construct like Grievous, so it's safe to assume the unorthodox elements he implements in his lightsaber battles (i.e. his speed, four armed combat, agility, etc.) could easily overwhelm Maul, especially if he plays it smart - as he'd undoubtedly do.

Moreover, the point involving "Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down" still stands, seeing as even at that strength capacity, Kenobi is still nowhere near him in speed, power, or skill. Also, the gap between the Maul we see in TPM, and him at "full strength" can't possibly be that great anyways, and it's the simple fact that he was quick, which allowed him to contend with him. Anyways, the fact of the matter is Grievous is leagues above Darth Maul in speed.

I try to get more, that's why I send pm's to people like you guys and I send out invitations to others and when I sent it to you guys I pm'd 2 otehr guys, too, there's 4 new members right there... but guess what, one of you joined, one said he didn't cause there wasn't enough members, the other 2 didn't say nothing or join. That's what always happens when I try to invite people, but I do have 32 members but some of them have only posted like once or twice when they first joined and then not came back again. Some don't ever post. So the site remains smallish, though not terrible for a free i-n-v-i-s-i-o-n-f-r-e-e site...


"After Qui-Gon is killed, and the doors open we know that Darth Maul is described as being "The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault", and indeed his assault was wild."

Before I reply to this, is this from the novel?


Source? And it just means he didn't expect them to be as strong as they were. Nothing says that my quote was referring to that specific point in your post, either, does it. It was just a side comment.

Maybe, they didn't overwhelm Mace Windu, though, and that was EU Grievous. It could also be said that Grievous has never fought anyone like Maul, either. Nobody with a double-bladed lightsaber, and Maul plays it smart, too, jumping around if he feels like he's in danger, getting a new attack ready, Greivous is less mobile than Maul, Maul could use that to his advantage, too. Grievous hasn't fought anyone with Maul's jump around tactics, either.


Kenobi only was so close to Maul right then because he was empowered by the Dark Side, and it wore him out extremely quickly, you realise that Maul took out "Dark Side" Kenobvi about as quickly as ROTS Kenobi took down Grievous in a fight, don't you? And yeah, Grievous moves his sabers faster than Maul, but overall, Maul is afster than Grievous, he can move the rest of his body a lot faster, Grievous just moves his arms fast. Doesn't really prove than Grievous > Maul.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Before I reply to this, is this from the novel?

1. There's no actual reason to reply, as it won't change anything.

2. Yes.



Source for what? Why would you ask for where this information is stored twice when its an inference on the same exact quote that you inquired about above? Anyways, see above.



Uh, what? This is at the end of the battle itself, as soon as the energy rays allow passage to the melting pit. And it was only Obi-Wan, so I'm not sure where you're getting the plural "they" from.



What? You don't even make sense here. Since I can't understand how this has anything to do with the specific point you quoted, I'll just generally address it: the entire reason for you bringing up that quote implies heavily and directly that you're trying to form some type of argument about the lines, and points I made regarding the duel in the melting pit on Naboo.



You've already addressed your own point for me. He was fighting Mace Windu, the man who was put Sidious on his ass.



Except that the foreign style advantage goes directly to General Grievous, because: 1) even in the highly unlikely case that Count Dooku didn't program him with knowledge on the double bladed lightsaber, he's shown the ability to partially decipher the most foreign style (Vaapad; in that it wasn't a 'traditional' form) in seconds, so there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do the same here with a form that he already knows, and 2) Maul has never seen anything like Grievous (it can be assumed Grievous has knowledge of double bladed users, or seen them, at the least), and wouldn't expect anything like that. No one would really.



And what's your point? General Grievous is still a better warrior in battle than Darth Maul, not only because his skill surpasses that of Maul, but also because he's far more battle hardened, and was one of, if not the most, talented strategist the CIS had. So, it doesn't really matter, because in tactics: Grievous > Maul.



What the **** are you talking about? Grievous can bend his body in ways the Dark Lord can't, considering he's of droid construct. Even in RotS, he climbs on all fours like a spider, and moves extremely quickly. Watch when he climbs into his wheelbike at three minutes and thirty seconds into this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9G4Cel-ZvK4

That's mobility, buster.



Except there's nothing to use, as that was bullshit you made up, and is disproved by actual canon.



Point being? This is, again, largely irrelevant - because Grievous is: stronger, faster, and more skilled than TPM Kenobi by lightyears. Even when if he were to brush with the Dark side, I'd surmise Grievous would down him faster than a shot of Vodka. The point still stands, regardless.



Relevance? Oh? What's that? None?



I lol'd.

Just watch the link provided above, which suggests Grievous didn't lose much of his mobility since Mace force crushed him. As well, we see in the CW cartoon that the General is fast as all hell, and moves his body extremely proficiently. For you to have a point, like I said, you'd have to prove there's a major gap in attributes between EU and RotS Grievous. Which you've yet to do.

Furthermore, even working under the incorrect assumption that Darth Maul is "overall faster", who cares? We see that without even moving an inch Grievous can hold his ground in all directions, and neither his speed nor reflexes have seemingly decreased much since the time when he did that.

My mistake, he didn't expect Kenobi to be as strong as he was. He underestimated him.

You say that like Mace did it easily. Really, Mace isn't to far above Maul with a blade (Maul nearly kileld Sidious in a duel, and bested Anoon Bondara, who supposedly had better saber skills than even Yoda, amongst other things).

True, he is a better strategist than Maul is. However, although he does have more experience than Maul does, Maul has spent a LOT more time training and that likely nearly makes up for his lack of experience. Plus, Grievous relies heavily on surprise and the fear of his opponents in order to win. I seriously doubt Maul will be afraid of Grievous, plus Grievous doesn't have the element of surprise in this fight.

He can bend, yes, but less mobile meaning he can't actually move around the room as easily, he can't jump out of harm's way in an instant if he has to.

What canon disproves the fact that Maul plays it smart and jumps out of danger when he needs to? And btw, that's not bullshit, watch the duel between Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM.


Not by lightyears at all, he's hardly even faster, he moves his sabers faster, but that's it, and not by to much, either. And your vodka analogy is complete hyperbole, Maul proved hismelf as far ahead of Kenobi as ROTS Kenobi proved himself to be ahead of Grievous, and ROTS kenobi vs. grievous wasn't that close.

Maul > Kenobi by the same degree that ROTS Kenobi > Grievous. I'm pretty sure that Maul is closer to ROTS Kenobi than Grievous is to TPM Kenobi, so can you figure out my point or do I have to explain my "irrelevent" and likely "bullshit" point?

I've watched ROTS, just last week, Grievous doesn't lose much mobility since Mace force crushes him? Lol, look at how fast he's running around during his fight on Hypori, he moves a lot slower and a lot less in ROTS, and that's when he's losing. You really want me to prove that EU grievous is a lot stronger than ROTS Grievous? Grievous moves a LOT slower, and lost to ROTS Kenobi after a medium length duel. EU Grievous pwnd 5 Jedi Masters at once, and in LOE pwnd 4 Jedi at once, look at those things you mentioned about hi in your original post, Dooku had a real hard time ebsting him, as did Mace, who both >>> ROTS Kenobi.

When was this? And watch chapter 20 of the Clone Wars cartoon, then watch ROTS. His speed diminished a LOT.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No, I'm actually being serious, I'll post the PM:

Author - Kadesh

Sigh

sigh ok, since you like bane and want to stay in this forum debating, theres nothing i can do. Well since you like bane so much why not put up either one of these avatars



or



Just resize them

O yes and im trying to be nice, so dont snap it



...

Seriously, that's just weird.

Roflmao. You're giving me a heart attack...

That's just creepy.