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ANH Ben & Darth Vader(in suit) vs Dooku(ROTS) & Plo Koon at peak.
1. Sabers only
2. No sabers
3. Sabers+force

People say the old men can use the force to bend the lightning away when sensing it. But remember the days before the flood when giants such as Sorgo the Great and Janus Christ still walked the forums.
They have told us of blinding lightning which insta kills anyone of the OT.

Hmm, this is actually really close.

1. Dooku beats Vader, Plo holds off Kenobi, Dooku and Plo together pwn Kenobi.
2. Vader beats Dooku, Kenobi beats Koon. Unless Koon can use lightning on Kenobi. Then Koon and Vader kill each other at the same time (crush and lightning at the same time). So I guess Plo and Dooku win this, too. Cause Dooku could beat ben, Plo and Vader kill each other... or, actually, Dooku could just kill vader with Force Lightning, haven't seen any proof yet than vader can block it, so.
3. Hmm... Dooku pwns Kenobi with the Force like in ROTS, Plo holds off vader, then Plo and Dooku together beat them.


So I say Plo and Dooku win all of them... #1 would actually be the closest.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Hmm, this is actually really close.

1. Dooku beats Vader, Plo holds off Kenobi, Dooku and Plo together pwn Kenobi. i would come to actually think that vader would > dooku in sabers alone, The power of form V already overwhelmed dooku in ROTS and vaders form V strength is greater than anakins though not faster

Originally posted by darthsith19

2. Vader beats Dooku, Kenobi beats Koon. Unless Koon can use lightning on Kenobi. Then Koon and Vader kill each other at the same time (crush and lightning at the same time).
Right and despite the fact that vader isnt stupid enough to get in a force fight without something to shield him from the lightning, say a piece of debris for example, and koon has never ever been shown to start the first move with lightning against an opponent and when vader knows that his enemies are a major threat, he tends to kill them. And surroundings? Please as gideon pointed out, vaders a god when it comes to that, and even during a force fight vaders mastery of TK can very well take down plo koon
Originally posted by darthsith19

So I guess Plo and Dooku win this, too. Cause Dooku could beat ben, Plo and Vader kill each other... or, actually, Dooku could just kill vader with Force Lightning, haven't seen any proof yet than vader can block it, so. Or actually crush kills plo koon first since vader strikes first then vader and his buddy team up and take down dooku

Originally posted by darthsith19

3. Hmm... Dooku pwns Kenobi with the Force like in ROTS, Plo holds off vader, then Plo and Dooku together beat them.
And you forgot this is an allout fight, vader with saber = no lightnings gonna harm him, and that means he is going to have a full range of aresenal, see the above
Originally posted by darthsith19

So I say Plo and Dooku win all of them... #1 would actually be the closest. While i say dooku may or may not beat vader in saber combat. he and plo koon loses the other 2


And please vader11, quit making threats to try to stomp on vader

1. Vader and ANH Kenobi- I think Dooku is the best here in swordplay but he would need some time with Obi-Wan and allot of time with Vader, while Koon would die quickly and Vader and Kenobi would just team up against Dooku.

2. Here is the best chance for Dooku and Koon, Vader is weak against Lightning, but i would still give this to Vader and Kenobi.

3. Vader and Kenobi- Here Vader and Kenobi have lightsabers to defend against Lightning and i think scenario 1 would just repeat.

So, i would give Vader and Kenobi 3/3 wins, but in the 2 battle team 2 has a chance of wining.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And please vader11, quit making threats to try to stomp on vader
What's your problem? I didn't put NJO Luke against Vader. This is a close fight and Vader's team may even have a greater chance of winning than the other team.

I'm certain that none of the Vader guys will ever admit Dooku will win, or vica-versa, so this isn't really even worth debating. But Anakin had two many advantages in ROTS, his kick that he got on Dooku while Dooku was concentrating on Kenobi hurt Dooku's game. ROTS Anakin was younger, more pwoerful and more physically fit than Mechanical Vader. Plus Dooku was tired from fighting both Anakin and Kenobi 2 on 1. Just because Vader uses Djem So doesn't make him above Dooku. Plo uses it, could he beat Dooku? Did AOTC Anakin beat Dooku? Dooku's a saber prodigy, he went toe to toe with Yoda and didn't lose to badly, he pwnd ROTS Kenobi, he has a lot more speed than Vader does. He wins. Vader got hit by friggin' ESB Luke's blade, come on, vader may have been toying with Luke but that'd still never happen to Dooku.

This has nothing to do with being stupid - Vader has no choice. He has been put into a Force Fight with Dooku and Koon, with Kenobi fighting alongside him. He has no choice. Did Vader sheild himself from Sidious lightning? No, then how could he shield himself from Dooku's, or even Plo's? Vader won't know that Plo is a major threat, but Plo will likely sense Vader's power and be smart enough to start with lightning, especially since he will clearly be able to see that vader is a cyborg. I didn't see Gideon post in here at all, either. And prove that Vader can take Koon down with TK before Koon can take down Vader with lightning.

If Vader could crush everybody weaker than him then why didn't he crush the Dark Woman, Roan Shryne, or ANH Kenobi? Lets say that he does, though, while he's crushing Plo, Dooku zaps him quick, then deals with Kenobi. Dooku is the only surviver, so team 2 still wins.

The ROTS fight was an all-out fight, too, and do you remember what Dooku did to Kenobi that time?

http://massassi.yavin4.com/sw_img/e3cspa41.jpg

Did I ever say that Dooku uses lightning on Vader during round 3, let alone that he kills him with it?



Why? Just because?

1.Vader and Ben, Vader completly overwhelms Koon, Vader and Ben beat Dooku.
2. This one is close b/c of how powerful Dooku is w/the force as that picture above shows, but slight edge to Vader and Ben, Ben im sure is stronger in the force after ROTS and Vader is a real Sith in ANH.
3.Vader and Ben without a doubt, there is no way in all out fight Dooku and Koon could match the overall power and skill of Vader and Ben.

Vader/Ben 3 out 3, the 2nd would be close.

Originally posted by kiddo44

2. This one is close b/c of how powerful Dooku is w/the force as that picture above shows, but slight edge to Vader and Ben, Ben im sure is stronger in the force after ROTS and Vader is a real Sith in ANH.

And might I ask what is to stop Dooku and Plo from frying their victims with lightning right from the start? Did Kenobi learn to block lightning like Yoda does or something?

i don't know what Kenobi learned, he learned how to become one with force. What would stop Vader from choking or slamming Plo Koon into a wall w/ the force first.


Im sure Kenobi while slower and not as good with the Blade, grew stronger in the force


what makes you think he could do that?

Although I think Ben & Vader may win, I would like to see both Dooku & Koon shooting lightning on Vader

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm certain that none of the Vader guys will ever admit Dooku will win, or vica-versa, so this isn't really even worth debating. But Anakin had two many advantages in ROTS, his kick that he got on Dooku while Dooku was concentrating on Kenobi hurt Dooku's game. ROTS Anakin was younger, more pwoerful and more physically fit than Mechanical Vader. Plus Dooku was tired from fighting both Anakin and Kenobi 2 on 1. Just because Vader uses Djem So doesn't make him above Dooku. Plo uses it, could he beat Dooku? Did AOTC Anakin beat Dooku? Dooku's a saber prodigy, he went toe to toe with Yoda and didn't lose to badly, he pwnd ROTS Kenobi, he has a lot more speed than Vader does. He wins. Vader got hit by friggin' ESB Luke's blade, come on, vader may have been toying with Luke but that'd still never happen to Dooku. No, the ROTS novel stated that Dooku was overwhelmed By anakins matery of Djem so and isnt vaders djrm so better? O yes and his form was described as Unpredictable and thus being able to fight in a 3 of one match with jedi knights and take on 7 jedi masters in the purge As of an unexperienced vader, We are talking about TESB vader whom surpassed vader AS of ROTS.

And got hit by luke? Are you dumb or what? He was merely toying with luke, vader wasnt even trying to kill him and if vader got serious he(luke) would have got aninihilated

Originally posted by darthsith19

This has nothing to do with being stupid - Vader has no choice. He has been put into a Force Fight with Dooku and Koon, with Kenobi fighting alongside him. He has no choice. Did Vader sheild himself from Sidious lightning?
Do you actually have common sense or not? How is vader going to pull a piece of debris to shield himself when he is carrying sidious with his arms and trying to find a hole to dump him in? Right your common sense is 0%
Originally posted by darthsith19

No, then how could he shield himself from Dooku's, or even Plo's? Vader won't know that Plo is a major threat,
Piece of bebris, simple. As anakin skywalker, he trained in the jedi temples for like what 10-20 years? And did he not know how plo koon fights? That memory still retains in vader and he hell knows that koon has lightning and that will be a threat.
Originally posted by darthsith19

but Plo will likely sense Vader's power and be smart enough to start with lightning,
Right and he couldnt sense a clone pilot turned against him, Vader can also sense plo koons power and be smart enough to attack with crush, Besides plo koon has never struck with EL as his first attack weather or not they are on organics or cyborgs
Originally posted by darthsith19

especially since he will clearly be able to see that vader is a cyborg. I didn't see Gideon post in here at all, either. And prove that Vader can take Koon down with TK before Koon can take down Vader with lightning. It was in the tyrannus vs vader thread where i remember you tried to use a quote to say dooku > vader and got annihilated by several members, And proof that koon can strike with lightning before vader with crush? Btw, vaders force crush destroyed an entire medical room, shook down a 20 story building, crushed military tanks of the battlefield and sadly koon and dooku do not have the force shield technique to defend against it
Originally posted by darthsith19

If Vader could crush everybody weaker than him then why didn't he crush the Dark Woman, Roan Shryne, or ANH Kenobi?
Because at that time he only did it with his rage? The movies clearly shows this at the end of ROTS. Empire era vader has greater control and knows how to better use this technique as mentioned in the above post
Originally posted by darthsith19

Lets say that he does, though, while he's crushing Plo, Dooku zaps him quick, then deals with Kenobi. Dooku is the only surviver, so team 2 still wins. If dooku attempts to zap vader while crushing pl, sadly it leaves him open to bens attack, Ben can knock him off guard with a force push
Originally posted by darthsith19

The ROTS fight was an all-out fight, too, and do you remember what Dooku did to Kenobi that time? And did you remember its difficult to attack with force attacks during a duel unless in a saber lock as the movies proved?

Originally posted by darthsith19

Did I ever say that Dooku uses lightning on Vader during round 3, let alone that he kills him with it? You said dooku and plo koon "all teh way" and i assumed you would have said oooo lightning owns them both

Originally posted by darthsith19
And might I ask what is to stop Dooku and Plo from frying their victims with lightning right from the start? Did Kenobi learn to block lightning like Yoda does or something? And i might add, what is there to stop vader from force crushing them at the start?

Obviously this is not fair since Ben is the weak link and has no offensive powers

Originally posted by Kadesh
We are talking about TESB vader whom surpassed vader AS of ROTS.

In terms of lightsaber combat? No, it's confirmed that Darth Vader is a shadow of his former self in dueling prowess.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Plo uses it, could he beat Dooku?

There's no proof that Plo Koon utilizes Djem So, it's mere speculation from a Dreamcast video game (which, even then, its gameplay akin to Battlefront 2) that came out before lightsaber forms were even invented, and the game has never been retconned to fit in continuity with the traditional seven forms. I've already had this discussion with you, and no evidence you provided (Wookiepedia) proved anything of the sort.

EDIT