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An Omega Mutant with Mastery of Ice versus A Herald of Cosmic Flame!

Fight on earth. Bloodlust on!

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1464/117855-iceman_400.jpg vs http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/8000/7108/123749-firelord_400.jpg

Originally posted by masterbruce
An Omega Mutant with Mastery of Ice versus A Herald of Cosmic Flame!

Fight on earth. Bloodlust on!

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1464/117855-iceman_400.jpg vs http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/8000/7108/123749-firelord_400.jpg

stalemate

Originally posted by guy222
stalemate

that's a first from you!

Originally posted by masterbruce
that's a first from you!

Cool. Have a good one

firelord. dont even try and say otherwise

Originally posted by psycho gundam
firelord. dont even try and say otherwise

Otherwise

Should be Firelord, but Iceman seems to have been made ridiculous recently.

Firelord.

Easily.

Firelord disintegrates Iceman completely in a single blow. Iceman eventually reforms. Rinse, wash, repeat... until Firelord drags Bobby into deep space, disintegrates him, and uses the Power Cosmic to prevent water molecules from reforming.

If this is a stalemate, its completely one-sided in Firelord's favor.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Firelord.

Easily.

Power Cosmic > Muties.

.

(The first one to even utter "Mad Ji...." or "Phoen..." gets bitchslapped.)

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Firelord.

Easily.

Agree

Iceman burns out his flames and freezes him in so much ice he will never break free.

Firelord is an herald, Bobby has no chance against any decent user of the Power Cosmic.

This time, he does

Originally posted by abraham-muvic
This time, he does



Heralds of Galactus are above omega level mutants. See Cable-God vs. Silver Surfer.

with PIS off, Firelord without a doubt.

That arc where Bobby was freezing Stranger's eyebeams was a low point in the history of comics.

Originally posted by Soljer
Power Cosmic > Muties.

.

(The first one to even utter "Mad Ji...." or "Phoen..." gets bitchslapped.)

Mad Jim Jaspers. Don't know who Phoen is, so I'll just say Hyperstorm.

How hot are Firelords flames?
Is it fire at all or just hot cosmic blasts?
How hot can it get?
How doees Firelord drag Bobby into deep space?

I need to hear better arguements than "Firelord burns Iceman to a crisp.", "Firelord has the power cosmic and the power cosmic > mutants." or "Firelord takes him to space...."

Does Firelord have matter manipulation powers?

Im arguing for Iceman.

Iceman at his highest showings thus far, has been beyond herald level.

He really wrecked the stranger.

Originally posted by Tenebrous


Heralds of Galactus are above omega level mutants. See Cable-God vs. Silver Surfer.

cable is not an omega level mutant

uhh im gonna argue for ice man too, how do you stop absolute zero, unless firelord has matter manip. i dont see that happening

Originally posted by Kurash
uhh im gonna argue for ice man too, how do you stop absolute zero, unless firelord has matter manip. i dont see that happening

Then again, how do u stop heralds from simply turning off Iceman's mutant gene? Firelord has bad showings, but he still posseses the power cosmic. PC may be a plot device in some eyes, but it still grants Firelord a variety of ways to simply disable Bobby's powers. Then again, in theory, so did Stranger lol. That comic was just a joke.

Originally posted by boriquaking55
Then again, how do u stop heralds from simply turning off Iceman's mutant gene? Firelord has bad showings, but he still posseses the power cosmic. PC may be a plot device in some eyes, but it still grants Firelord a variety of ways to simply disable Bobby's powers. Then again, in theory, so did Stranger lol. That comic was just a joke.

their is no gene for FL to manipulate, omega iceman transcended his physical being.

Originally posted by boriquaking55
Then again, how do u stop heralds from simply turning off Iceman's mutant gene? Firelord has bad showings, but he still posseses the power cosmic. PC may be a plot device in some eyes, but it still grants Firelord a variety of ways to simply disable Bobby's powers. Then again, in theory, so did Stranger lol. That comic was just a joke.

Uhhh heralds can turn off mutant genes?

Did they all display that or was it stated that they all could do it?

Originally posted by boriquaking55
with PIS off, Firelord without a doubt.

That arc where Bobby was freezing Stranger's eyebeams was a low point in the history of comics.

Did this really happen? If so, that's just stupid. Iceman's powers are not unique at all. From what I gather, Stranger can control subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, etc. In other words, if Iceman tries to rob something of its heat to slow down molecular movement to reduce temperature, Stranger can very easily counter this. Heck, Iceman<Sersi. I honestly think Iceman being Omega is PIS. Look at the PF. Jean is an omega mutant because she can wield the PF. PF is to Jean as Excalibur is to King Arthur. That is the kind of power that can match and beat abstracts. To put Iceman's potential at that level is ridiculous considering the powerset he has. He can't manipulate matter or atoms or subatomic particles or anything.

But storm can!

Originally posted by Soljer
But storm can!



Oh yeah. Her powerset beats Iceman's by leaps and bounds. Heck, even Magneto's powerset are more impressive than Iceman's. Apacolypse's is too. There are a number of mutants who should have been considered for omega before Iceman. Selene is arguably another one. Same holds true for Sienna Blaze.

Iceman's powers, I don't care how strong he gets in them, are not the kind that can beat heralds or abstracts. Firelord's powerset beats Iceman's hands down because of the inherent nature of the powers of the two characters. Storm's powerset can if wielded on a big enough scale could very conceiveably beat a herald or an abstract. She controls the forces that governs the universe. Iceman can merely absorb heat and has moisture control. Technically, she could do everything Iceman can do and a whole lot more.

Marvel putting Iceman's potential on this level is really a very foolish thing that doesn't make sense.

who wins firelord or johnny storm ?

Originally posted by spidey-dude
who wins firelord or johnny storm ? Firelord, no contest

Originally posted by Brian Oswald
Firelord, no contest HT can turn himself as hot as the sun. can firelord support that ?

Originally posted by spidey-dude
HT can turn himself as hot as the sun. can firelord support that ?

It doesn't matter how hot FL becomes, Iceman can stop him completely, in other words, absolute zero.

He wrecked the stranger, not just his eye beams, but the entire stranger himself.

Iceman has also shown he can spread his consciousness to anything and become it, such as the stranger's ship.

Originally posted by Board Walker
It doesn't matter how hot FL becomes, Iceman can stop him completely, in other words, absolute zero.

He wrecked the stranger, not just his eye beams, but the entire stranger himself.

Iceman has also shown he can spread his consciousness to anything and become it, such as the stranger's ship. i was bringing up if firelord is strong enough to obsorb johnny's flames at his temp

Originally posted by spidey-dude
i was bringing up if firelord is strong enough to obsorb johnny's flames at his temp

Oh my bad, FL really surpasses Johny though....unless Johny further evolves as some of the FF story arcs have stated that the FF keep evolving; or maybe it was just thing.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Oh my bad, FL really surpasses Johny though....unless Johny further evolves as some of the FF story arcs have stated that the FF keep evolving; or maybe it was just thing. i dont know much about firelord so i cant say who wins and who doesnt. firestorm of course can take out firelord im sure. taking his powers.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
i dont know much about firelord so i cant say who wins and who doesnt.

Fl's heat is beyond that of a sun, its burned even SS before.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Fl's heat is beyond that of a sun, its burned even SS before. have FL and johnny fought before ?

Originally posted by Board Walker
It doesn't matter how hot FL becomes, Iceman can stop him completely, in other words, absolute zero.

He wrecked the stranger, not just his eye beams, but the entire stranger himself.

Iceman has also shown he can spread his consciousness to anything and become it, such as the stranger's ship.

There has to be moisture for him to spread his consciousness to. Outside of that, anyone who can manipulate matter at the subatomic level can very easily get rid of the moisture in the area or if they can control moisture themselves, they can fight him over it.

Heat does work against Iceman, BTW. If a character can generate heat or in anyway accelerate molecular movement, it can counter Bobby's power. It would come down to who can overpower whom and who can wield their powers in greater quantity. However, IIRC, FL has matter manipulation too. That means he can turn Bobby into a turnip and end the fight that way and won't have to use his heat-generating ability to try and overload Iceman's heat-pumping abilities.

i remember reading one of my books where iceman and HT go at it. iceman got his butt kicked. trying to find it which one it is exactly. i think it was an uncanny xmen issue. il check

Iceman is a good fighter. He does have some power. However, I can't see him beating one who wields the power cosmic.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Heat does work against Iceman, BTW. If a character can generate heat or in anyway accelerate molecular movement, it can counter Bobby's power. It would come down to who can overpower whom and who can wield their powers in greater quantity.

Agreed

Why should I assume that Bobby's powers are greater then the Human Torch or Firelord or anybodies whose abilities agitate molecules? Fire starters do the exact opposite of Iceman, so this would more then likely come down to a battle of wills.

Can Bobby win ----- maybe ----- but this is not a sure thing

Originally posted by Rutog98
There has to be moisture for him to spread his consciousness to. Outside of that, anyone who can manipulate matter at the subatomic level can very easily get rid of the moisture in the area or if they can control moisture themselves, they can fight him over it.

Heat does work against Iceman, BTW. If a character can generate heat or in anyway accelerate molecular movement, it can counter Bobby's power. It would come down to who can overpower whom and who can wield their powers in greater quantity. However, IIRC, FL has matter manipulation too. That means he can turn Bobby into a turnip and end the fight that way and won't have to use his heat-generating ability to try and overload Iceman's heat-pumping abilities.

This is not true, Iceman spread his consciousness to the stranger's tech and controlled it, their was no moisture in that tech, he moved through the strangers ship to all parts of instantly, he wasnt using the moisture to move.

Secondly sub molecular control will do nothing to iceman, as iceman himself is intangible, he is the one controll everything sub molecular, the stranger has extreme sub molecular control and Iceman out powered him in that respect.

Originally posted by Board Walker
This is not true, Iceman spread his consciousness to the stranger's tech and controlled it, their was no moisture in that tech, he moved through the strangers ship to all parts of instantly, he wasnt using the moisture to move.

Secondly sub molecular control will do nothing to iceman, as iceman himself is intangible, he is the one controll everything sub molecular, the stranger has extreme sub molecular control and Iceman out powered him in that respect.

IIRC, there was even some moisture in his tech. It mayhave been collected humidity or what-have-you. Can scans be posted with the explanation. I have not read the story since it came out. From what I remembered, it had to do with water what Iceman did. If that is the case, then Stranger was written down here.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
who wins firelord or johnny storm ?

pyreus

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Iceman is a good fighter. He does have some power. However, I can't see him beating one who wields the power cosmic.

hmm....Firelord served Galactus. Bobby knows Oblivion. Oblivion>Galactus.....Bobby=Firelord=Stalemate

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Agreed

Why should I assume that Bobby's powers are greater then the Human Torch or Firelord or anybodies whose abilities agitate molecules? Fire starters do the exact opposite of Iceman, so this would more then likely come down to a battle of wills.

Can Bobby win ----- maybe ----- but this is not a sure thing

And what works against Iceman more is FL is not limited by just trying to suck in enough heat/generate enough heat/agitate the molecules themsevles to try and overcome Iceman, he has has atomic manipulation like Sersi on top of it. FL is more powerful than Sersi. He can come at Iceman that way as well. His powers are far more versatile and potent than Iceman's. Iceman's powers are too limited to be battling cosmics.

until its proved that FL has matter manipulation, which im just sayin it does but no ones brought up hard evidence to prove he does and its not listed as a power of his on any websit, i dont see him countering absolute zero of any of the other powers iceman has displayed at his best showings

The thing is, it doesn't have to be proved. IT'S THE FREAKING POWER COSMIC. Plus, he's got stuff like that in his respect thread, so the point is moot.

Bobby's power is one dimensional. It's a very good dimension, but still one dimensional. Firelord on the other hand, despite his primary ability being seemingly one dimension, is very versatile. Power cosmic is essentially a plot device power, it's almost as bad as magic. Now, before Annihilation, I'd have said Bobby had a shot of pulling out 3/10 wins. maybe 4. Having seem FL when he's pissed off and reading his respect thread, has changed my mind, to say the least.


Firelord 10/10. Unless he pulls another SMvsFL, he really shouldn't lose this one.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The thing is, it doesn't have to be proved. IT'S THE FREAKING POWER COSMIC. Plus, he's got stuff like that in his respect thread, so the point is moot.

So because its the power cosmic, that automatically means he has matter manipulation? You'll have to excuse me for not taking your word for it. I went through his respect thread and didnt see any matter manipulation feats. If you can get those scans it would be appreciated. Maybe i missed something.

It's part of the powerset. It's like saying a specific Kryptonian doesn't have heat vision just because you haven't seen them demonstrate it.

Or a specific human doesn't have a gall bladder just because you've never seen it.

Originally posted by Board Walker
It doesn't matter how hot FL becomes, Iceman can stop him completely, in other words, absolute zero.

He wrecked the stranger, not just his eye beams, but the entire stranger himself.

Iceman has also shown he can spread his consciousness to anything and become it, such as the stranger's ship.

Absolute Zero, that's right, because Firestorm doesn't fly through Space and all that.

Firestorm can manipulate matter, this is a win.

When did Firelord Get matter manip? To my knowlege ONly surfer really does that of the heralds. Until the heralds use said abilities, It can't be counted that all of them have the same powers or even the same skills with the powers. I don't doubt that surfer could make cosmic fire, but he isn't going to be doing it in any way that is even comparible to firelord. So much bullshit when it comes to the power cosmic and the heralds. It's sickening. If Firelord is not more powerful than the stranger, then he can go down the same way the stranger did. Cosmic Fire or not. He isn't a matter manip, he isn't a telepath he isn't magic. Those are the things I see beating Omega Iceman.

You know what I've heard a lot of people talking about Iceman doing absolute zero but then again I've never actually seen Iceman do Aboslute Zero before

A) Its firelord

B) Space is three degrees above absolute zero

Can someone show matter manipulation from Firestom? If he hasnt done it, im gonnna assume he cant and wouldnt consider it a useable tactic in getting a win here.

As far as Kryptonians go, i wont assume any Kryptonian can do heat vision off the bat. It may have to be learned or gained through puberty or something.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
A) Its firelord

B) Space is three degrees above absolute zero

The difference is infinite in comparison to absolute zero and 1 degree above absolute zero.

Iceman has created absolute zero at least once, but he had help and didn't do it alone

Originally posted by jrodslam
Can someone show matter manipulation from Firestom? If he hasnt done it, im gonnna assume he cant and wouldnt consider it a useable tactic in getting a win here.

As far as Kryptonians go, i wont assume any Kryptonian can do heat vision off the bat. It may have to be learned or gained through puberty or something.

Firestorm does manipulate matter. and quite Well. We how ever are talking about FireLORD.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Iceman has created absolute zero at least once, but he had help and didn't do it alone Who helped him?

Originally posted by Newjak
Who helped him?

IIRC it was Gambit, he helped by absorbing extra energy from the material that was being frozen

Originally posted by Endless Mike
IIRC it was Gambit, he helped by absorbing extra energy from the material that was being frozen Then Iceman has not done Absolute Zero and if he needed help to do so then he can't.

I don't think matter manipulation is as standard for the PC as every one thinks it is either. Could any one see Air-Walker using that power?

Originally posted by Accel
I don't think matter manipulation is as standard for the PC as every one thinks it is either. Could any one see Air-Walker using that power?

I don't see Air-Walker doing anything but being everyone's *****.

It was human torch not gambit, and he only did it to speed the process. Iceman could have done it, just not as fast

Originally posted by Blair Wind
It was human torch not gambit, and he only did it to speed the process. Iceman could have done it, just not as fast Speculation at best he didn't do it without outside help and hasn't done it without outside help therefore you can not assume based on one showing of having help to "speed" up the process that he can.

Not really. They both pretty much state that HT is just helping to make it faster. Iceman said he could do it, just didnt know if he could do it in the three seconds needed

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not really. They both pretty much state that HT is just helping to make it faster. Iceman said he could do it, just didnt know if he could do it in the three seconds needed Then it takes time for him to possibly reach Absolute Zero and obviously requires much concentration.

And I know you better than that BW saying you could do something isn't doing it.

I mean has he ever done it before or since?

By the way what issue was that?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Firestorm does manipulate matter. and quite Well. We how ever are talking about FireLORD.

Holy smokes! I meant to say Firelord.

iceman literally takes every bit of kinetic energy from firelord. turning him into an icepop

Originally posted by King KAM
iceman literally takes every bit of kinetic energy from firelord. turning him into an icepop

Yes he can, I agree.

Did we just actually agree on some thing?

Firelord superheats the area around him so that no water vapor can exist within that area. Tie.

Originally posted by psy_blade
Firelord superheats the area around him so that no water vapor can exist within that area. Tie.

What about the moisture in his body?

Originally posted by jrodslam
What about the moisture in his body?

Firelord? The herald of Galactus?

I very much doubt any of the Heralds have any moisture in their body.

Originally posted by Soljer
Firelord? The herald of Galactus?

I very much doubt any of the Heralds have any moisture in their body.

why? heralds are still organic as far as I can tell.