Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

If God is all loving, then he should love the devil, right?

No, god hates the devil. God the father is a vengeful and hateful god. It is Jesus who is all loving. That is according to Christian mythology.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, god hates the devil. God the father is a vengeful and hateful god. It is Jesus who is all loving. That is according to Christian mythology. I thought Jesus was God.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I thought Jesus was God.

This is where it gets really confusing: Jesus is god, and so is god, also so ghost. They are three in one. Kind of like a transformer.

As far as I know different sects have vastly different beliefs regarding the trinity. Catholics are all about 3 in 1, but a lot of the crazy protestants will quote some passages where Jesus seems to insinuate that he is the son and seperate.

Would God love the devil and just hate the actions he had taken? Isn't it something like "Love the sinner, hate the sin"?

Originally posted by inimalist
...Would God love the devil and just hate the actions he had taken? Isn't it something like "Love the sinner, hate the sin"?

Then why is god unable to forgive satan?

Because He is not perfect.

Scripture says "Perfect loves casts out fear"...Hate is based on fear. So god does not have perfect love.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why is god unable to forgive satan?

low self esteem issues?

Originally posted by inimalist
low self esteem issues?



So he needs counseling?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So he needs counseling?

or maybe just some Zoloft

Originally posted by inimalist
or maybe just some Zoloft

Maybe he's been on Zanix too long.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Maybe he's been on Zanix too long.

that explains the lack of another flood

benzodiazapams HO!

Originally posted by inimalist
that explains the lack of another flood

benzodiazapams HO!

Over my head.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Over my head.

oops

Zanex is anti-anxiety. Puts people into a world of dull emotional responses

...

This does make me consider doing a proper psychoanalysis of God...

Originally posted by inimalist
oops

Zanex is anti-anxiety. Puts people into a world of dull emotional responses

...

This does make me consider doing a proper psychoanalysis of God...

Ok, I know that, I just thought you were making some connection between Zanix and dehydration. Silly me...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, I know that, I just thought you were making some connection between Zanix and dehydration. Silly me...

ya, it was a bad joke

those I am fantastic at

Originally posted by inimalist
ya, it was a bad joke

those I am fantastic at

Don't take it so hard. I gave you a 5 out of 10.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't take it so hard. I gave you a 5 out of 10.



I only strive for average

I hate to admit it, but I'm waiting for JIA's responce.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I hate to admit it, but I'm waiting for JIA's responce.

He maybe an idiot, as fini would say, but he is no fool.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He maybe an idiot, as fini would say, but he is no fool. No, JIA is a fool. But he knows the Bible cover to cover, so he shall tell me the answer, does God love the Devil according to the Bible?

The Bible doesn't say whether God hates or loves Satan, so it's a thinker... Looking at Job, God doesn't seem to hate Satan, allowing him some freedom, but it is obvious from the Bible that Satan will not be forgiven. However, why that is, is not answered either, it seems that either Satan committed the single unforgiveable sin, or will not ask for mercy, although I think the former more likely. So while I'm convinced that God does not hate Satan for the above reasons, I'm not convinced that God loves him either, basically an acknowledgement of his existence with no emotion attached to that existence other than when he tempts his beloved creations...

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Bible doesn't say whether God hates or loves Satan, so it's a thinker... Looking at Job, God doesn't seem to hate Satan, allowing him some freedom, but it is obvious from the Bible that Satan will not be forgiven. However, why that is, is not answered either, it seems that either Satan committed the single unforgiveable sin, or will not ask for mercy, although I think the former more likely. So while I'm convinced that God does not hate Satan for the above reasons, I'm not convinced that God loves him either, basically an acknowledgement of his existence with no emotion attached to that existence other than when he tempts his beloved creations... Why doesn't the Bible say so?

Probably because it isn't pertinent to salvation.

I think it's best looked at more from a context of spirituality.Christianity puts itself in the funniest posistions.I guess,to me,within a Christian context, it is best looked at like this:The devil would not be hated by God.The devil would in fact be,the total absence of god.This takes him out of his general context as a demonized version of Pan or out of a physical context for the most part.It puts him back in an moral,emotionalstate of mind.Where the devil is not represented by any physical descreption.This would inturn lead me to belive the devil is actualy the worst part of are inner most conscience,which still is not completling lacking of god,therefore leaving me to belive their is in fact,no devil which to hate or despise.Only big love for one another.

..............................................

Or maybe i'm just full of crap!

Originally posted by lord xyz
If God is all loving, then he should love the devil, right?

I would think so if we go by the definition of Godly love in Corinthians 13:1-13.

So yes I would believe that he always perseveres, always hopes, and always takes on much suffering with with the hope that all of those who hate him change. Still, God is not naive nor is he totalitarian - so I'm sure he knows that some people will never change, nor will he force them to.

God and Satan are Gay Lovers...check it out:


Dawn: Lucifer's Halo


http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/114059912536878.htm

God and the Devil are Gay lovers, and this war is over Lucifer's Halo, I already proved it

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
God and the Devil are Gay lovers, and this war is over Lucifer's Halo, I already proved it

If you don't beleive me than click the link

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you don't beleive me than click the link

I'm afraid! The link might lead me to a nude photo of you.

Meh, I always thought that God loved Satan still, but because Satan was not truly sorry for his sins and did not renounce them he could never be forgiven, and therefore would forever alienate himself.

But then, I was a Catholic and I haven't been to Church in about thirteen years, so I could be way off.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm afraid! The link might lead me to a nude photo of you.


You are not worthy of another fabulous nude photo of myself...


That link is to a graphic novel by Joseph Micheal Linsner

I believe god said in scripture that he loves all of his creation. Well maybe not. He did say all was good though. Soooooo Satan is good. God is just bi polar.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You are not worthy of another fabulous nude photo of myself...


That link is to a graphic novel by Joseph Micheal Linsner

I still don't trust you.

Nude photos are of the devil.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nude photos are of the devil.

Unless it's of a beautiful girl.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Unfortunately, lord xyz the Bible says nothing about whether God loves the devil.

Furthermore, the Bible reveals that God hates evil. The devil is evil personified (the devil is still a personal devil but he is so wicked that he is the icon for evil as well). So I believe that God hates the devil. Okay, judging by what you said, and looking at these two quotes mainly, it is suggested that God hates the devil, but it we cannot be sure. However, seeing as God hates the devil, he is not all-loving. Do you agree with this?

So much blue text. It's too hard to read.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Okay, judging by what you said, and looking at these two quotes mainly, it is suggested that God hates the devil, but it we cannot be sure. However, seeing as God hates the devil, he is not all-loving. Do you agree with this? I'm going to go ahead and disagree with JIA here because although Satan personifies evil it is indeed the evil that is hated, not the persona.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, god hates the devil. God the father is a vengeful and hateful god. It is Jesus who is all loving. That is according to Christian mythology.

Don't state things you make up as fact. Because what you just posted, it's just a bunch of goobly-guck. Yuck.
Anyway, God the Father, and God the Son, being Jesus, and God the holy Spirit, are all loving, therefore God, being all three of the aforementioned, loves the Devil.

The End.

Hehehe.

i would definantly say that new testament God loves the devil, but old testament God hates him

Originally posted by Naz
Don't state things you make up as fact. Because what you just posted, it's just a bunch of goobly-guck. Yuck.
Anyway, God the Father, and God the Son, being Jesus, and God the holy Spirit, are all loving, therefore God, being all three of the aforementioned, loves the Devil.

The End.


The God of the Old Testament is very wrathful and hateful.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
The God of the Old Testament is very wrathful and hateful.

Maybe God wasn't very hateful, maybe He was only portrayed that way by the Bible's human writers.

Don't confuse "just and willing to punish evil" for "hateful." That would be--for lack of a better word--stupid.

Originally posted by Naz
Maybe God wasn't very hateful, maybe He was only portrayed that way by the Bible's human writers. I thought God wrote the Bible.

Way I look at it, Satan never really did anything at all bad in the bible except to refuse to submit to God.

But for you believers out there what is it exactly that Satan ever did that proves he's the evil one?


Satan refused to submit to God.

Satan tricked Adam and Eve into eating the fruit from the tree. Now what is interesting about that situation is that all knowing God knew that A&E basically were going to eat the fruit no matter what. So it was like a set up.

What I find interesting about the fruit eating episode is that Satan told Adam and Eve the truth.

Basically God said WHEN you eat the fruit you will DIE. This is what God said would happen.


What Satan said was:

QUOTE
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

So they ate it and what happened? Did they die? No they did not die. What happened was this:

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves

So here we see that Satan told the truth and God is the one who lied.

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

Now prior to eating the fruit man was very good. It is only when he ate the fruit that he became like ONE OF US. In other words he became EVIL like God. Before eating the fruit he was not EVIL. When he ate he became like God and became evil. Hmmm.

Once again, this is derived from the English script not the original. Satan undoubtedly lied to them. Actually, an important lesson (if you believe, obviously) here is that the first sin came from the misconstrument of God's word. Also, Adam had not sinned because he had knowledge of good and evil, it is obviously (like absolutely blantant) that it was because of disobedience. Does God get mad because of knowledge? No, which is why he is mad at the serpent, who already knew. He was mad at the serpent for deceiving Eve. And that is why the Bible says that from the beginning Satan was a liar and is the father of lies.

Also, notice that God did not lie, he tells Adam that he will die because of this and return to the dust. Besides that, the Hebrew word beyom that is translated into English as "in the day" (not when), is never used as a literal day.

Nice programmed religious response.

Well, you have to consider that from God's perspective Satan is just another being who was exercising his free will and OHHH God forbid!

Actually it wasn't programmed, look at my editted post. Nothing in the Bible supports what you said. You are making crap up because you want to invalidate Christianity. However, these amateur, recycled, and previously debunked arguments won't work.

I still belive the Gnostic story of the garden is much better.The serpent was actualy the protaganist in the story,the god was flawed and crazy.That makes more sense to me.Seems less confusing that way.Or maybe it's more confusing.Guess it depends on which version you like better.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I thought God wrote the Bible.


That's a scary thought.

One weird thing about the gnostics is the belief that an evil deity created the world, not God, nor Jesus... I think it is one reason that they should be considered very seperate from Christianity. Some gnostic texts are interesting and pose a slight validity in attack on Christianity (ie. Gospel of Thomas and the The Apocalypse of Peter), but some are very sketchy (ie. Gospel of Judas).

To me that makes more sense.I think their actualy beliefs on Jesus is were the biggest seperation occurs.The Gnostics belived all material matter was evil,which gave Gnostics the claim that Jesus would not have actualy came to earth in 'the flesh',as orthodox/fundementalist belive.The second split on Christ teachings deals with his actual existance.A great deal of Gnostic schools claimed Jesus did not exist.They preached the crucifixtion was a symbolic event which we could all partake of.Of course their are alot of other differences,but I belive those are the two biggest and why the Gnostics were pretty much eradicated once Christian emperors came into power.

The belief in evil material and good spirit is a rather... Greek philosophy. I'm not sure those were all gnostics though, I'm pretty sure the gnostics believed that Christ existed... Are you sure it wasn't another sect?

Gnostic text such as the Treatise On Resurrection give a great insight into gnostic views of the resurrection.Instead of listing a bunch I will just refer you to a great book: The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels.Chapter one deals with the Gnostic and orthodox view of the resurrection.

Your right.They were greek.I think mainly coming from Plotinius,but the Gnostics borrowed heavly from that teaching.At least some schools did.

You know what, I was in the University bookstore the other day and I swear I flipped through a book with a name very similar to that one... The more I think about it the more I'm convinced it was that book...

If you mean Elaine Pagels. This is a good author of many books. I believe I also own one, but of a different topic. I think it was "The Origin of Satan : The New Testament Origins of Christianity's Demonization of Jews, Pagans and Heretics"

I've been skimming all the journal works of Pagels on the online University library and I give her credit for being fair minded most of the time.

God hates the devil the way a person hates her/his hair on a bad hair day. On the other hand, it's better than being bald.

Originally posted by debbiejo
If you mean Elaine Pagels. This is a good author of many books. I believe I also own one, but of a different topic. I think it was "The Origin of Satan : The New Testament Origins of Christianity's Demonization of Jews, Pagans and Heretics"


Very good book DJ!I never got to read it all the way through but it was thought out very well.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Way I look at it, Satan never really did anything at all bad in the bible except to refuse to submit to God.

But for you believers out there what is it exactly that Satan ever did that proves he's the evil one?


Satan refused to submit to God.

Satan tricked Adam and Eve into eating the fruit from the tree. Now what is interesting about that situation is that all knowing God knew that A&E basically were going to eat the fruit no matter what. So it was like a set up.

What I find interesting about the fruit eating episode is that Satan told Adam and Eve the truth.

Basically God said WHEN you eat the fruit you will DIE. This is what God said would happen.


What Satan said was:

QUOTE
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

So they ate it and what happened? Did they die? No they did not die. What happened was this:

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves

So here we see that Satan told the truth and God is the one who lied.

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

Now prior to eating the fruit man was very good. It is only when he ate the fruit that he became like ONE OF US. In other words he became EVIL like God. Before eating the fruit he was not EVIL. When he ate he became like God and became evil. Hmmm.


That's a very innaccurate and misguided interpretation of the scripture.
What made man evil was not the knowledge he acquired from the tree, but rather - the act of disobedience against God.

Satan's original plan was not about the acquisition of knowledge or to enlighten man, rather it was to get man to disobey God, fully knowing that this act of disobedience would give death(or himself) dominion over the earth that God had created for man. Thus he only gave a partial truth to Eve, and it is quite apparent that his original intent was to hurt mankind and God's relationship with them, as well as to benefit himself.

Christ's sacrifice gave dominion of the earth back to man again - hence why Christ is referred to not only as the "son of God" but also as the "son of man" within the scriptures. Before Christ's death man had no power over Satan, but with his death we are told that the Devil has no power over us, and that through faith in Christ we can conquer this thing called "death" and "sin" and be offered life through him.

That being stated - all of this is a bit off topic, so it might be a good idea to open up another thread pertaining to this subject.

I know what the popular meaning of these scriptures are. My point is that there are many interpretations not just one.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I know what the popular meaning of these scriptures are. My point is that there are many interpretations not just one.

Understood, but it is still a very innaccurate and misleading one. Adam and Eve did indeed die at some point so Satan lied. Eve actually states that the serpent "deceived" her in Genesis 3 which further illustrates this.

Satan is directly quoted as wanting to harm and not help mankind in the First book of Adam and Eve Chapter 47 verse 7:

But Satan, the hater of all good, thought within himself: "Whereas God has promised salvation to Adam by covenant, and that He would deliver him out of all the hardships that have befallen him -- but has not promised me by covenant, and will not deliver me out of my hardships; no, since He has promised him that He should make him and his descendants live in the kingdom in which I once was -- I will kill Adam."

I definitely don't mind you posting your own interpretation, but just make sure post the entire scripture to support your claim, not just bits and pieces.

But god said "In this very day you shall die"...They didn't die on that day. God lied.

No he didn't. As I pointed out, the meaning of the word translated "in this day" is not ever used for one literal day which means that it archaicly meant a different, unspecified time period.

Originally posted by Nellinator
No he didn't. As I pointed out, the meaning of the word translated "in this day" is not ever used for one literal day which means that it archaicly meant a different, unspecified time period.


Why can't God speak more directly ?

Originally posted by debbiejo
But god said "In this very day you shall die"...They didn't die on that day. God lied.







So yeah they did die in a day, at least a day according to God's standards, since Adam lived to be roughly 1000 years old.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Why can't God speak more directly ? Umm... I'm 100% positive that Adam and Eve understood him, we do not need to understand that, even though it's not beyond our ability.

I think I own a copy of the "Adam and Eve" book, though it's in storage.

I should go pull it out so I can quote scriptures outside the bible too. It should be interesting. I'll throw in some "Book of Pilate" or something like that. He talks about Jesus actually talking to the dead when he died on the cross. Interesting conversations from hell.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I think I own a copy of the "Adam and Eve" book, though it's in storage.

I should go pull it out so I can quote scriptures outside the bible too. It should be interesting. I'll throw in some "Book of Pilate" or something like that. He talks about Jesus actually talking to the dead when he died on the cross. Interesting conversations from hell.


The books of Adam and Eve as well as the book of Enoch were actually included in the original Torah I believe, so technically speaking they are really part of the scriptures. They were taken out in later translations, possibly due to some inconsisties within the translations as well as in the recounting of the stories. They still have much historical merit to them though, as the book of Enoch is actually referenced in the New Testament Letter to Jude.

The book of Revelations was taken out 3 or 4 times. See how one book can change things?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... I'm 100% positive that Adam and Eve understood him, we do not need to understand that, even though it's not beyond our ability.


But if the Bible is the Word of God, and it is directed to us all, then why is there a need to intepret anything ?

Originally posted by lord xyz
If God is all loving, then he should love the devil, right? Does God love Satan?

Does God need Satan?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But if the Bible is the Word of God, and it is directed to us all, then why is there a need to intepret anything ? Because it was physically written by mortal men, whom we know can be very lying and deceitful.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But if the Bible is the Word of God, and it is directed to us all, then why is there a need to intepret anything ? Because all words need to be interpreted. What I am saying to you now requires interpretation... The Bible isn't all fuzzy and hard to understand like you are portraying.

There are several ways of interpreting the "you shall die this day."

1. Death was spiritual death.
2. A "day" was actually the "period of time" as described by Biblical scholars who support an old Earth.

I'm also starting to see that some of the translations in various texts are worded pretty poorly. Still, I think a lot of the confusion over the Genesis Adam/Eve account can be attributed to the removal of the first and second books of Adam/Eve as well as Enoch from the scriptures.

These books really fill in a lot of gaps between the original creation account and the pre-flood times. I believe they also help portray the God of the OT from a more balanced perspective, one that is not only righteous with his judgements, but also merciful and loving with them.

The story of Adam and Eve has also been sensationalized in the recent century or so with fictional writings such as Milton's Paradise Lost. I haven't read it myself, but from what I've heard about it Satan is portrayed as more of the protaganist in the story as oppossed to being the antagonist, which is probably why many nowadays are sympathetic to his plight.

To the contrary, the Satan in the books of Adam and Eve is definitely a bane to mankind and to God, and this can clearly be seen by his words and actions throughout both books.


Originally posted by FeceMan
There are several ways of interpreting the "you shall die this day."

1. Death was spiritual death.
2. A "day" was actually the "period of time" as described by Biblical scholars who support an old Earth.


The strangest part about the whole day/period time thing is that it was actually stated by God what a day could represent within the books of Adam and Eve, and throughout the rest of the scriptures. I don't see why there's so much confusion over it, he makes it pretty clear that time to him is different than it is to us.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Because all words need to be interpreted.



Why ? What is the point ? Why not be more direct ?




Originally posted by Nellinator
What I am saying to you now requires interpretation... The Bible isn't all fuzzy and hard to understand like you are portraying.


No, it's actually easy to understand...what it says is plain and clear. It's you who keeps insisting that the biblical quotes mean something different then from what it literally says.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
No, it's actually easy to understand...what it says is plain and clear. It's you who keeps insisting that the biblical quotes mean something different then from what it literally says. No, what the English actually says. Also, the Bible is self-interpreting, if there is another verse pertaining to the terminology you need to use it, otherwise you are pulling it out of context.