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Who wins?

Speedblitz by PG

Without that . . . srug I'd go with BB

When has PG ever shown speedblitz capabilities?

Originally posted by UniOmni
When has PG ever shown speedblitz capabilities?

Most Kryptonians have considerable superspeed.

True.

But when has she shown the ability to do so?

Nova can make stars go boom, but that doesn't mean Surfer gets that nod.

Has she shown a blitz tactic, ever?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Who wins?

blackbolt

BB ftw...

If we go by Power girls origin, she should be stronger than Superman. She is a precrisis Earth 2 Kryptonian. BB is screwed. By the time he amps up to her lvls of strength, she would have taken his head off with Heat vision.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If we go by Power girls origin, she should be stronger than Superman. She is a precrisis Earth 2 Kryptonian. BB is screwed. By the time he amps up to her lvls of strength, she would have taken his head off with Heat vision.

Why would he fight her H2H when it would be far more effective to yell at her?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If we go by Power girls origin, she should be stronger than Superman. She is a precrisis Earth 2 Kryptonian. BB is screwed. By the time he amps up to her lvls of strength, she would have taken his head off with Heat vision.

How about we ignore that, and go by how the comics themselves present her, yea?

I'd peg her at a class 90 brick with low level hv, and low end durability.

She's never been shown as a Post crisis worthy Kryptonian in recent years, much less a PC one.

Umkaythanxbye!

I think Black Bolt's more durable than most give him credit for. If PG does successfully speedblitz him, it's not like it would take him out before he could get out a yell.

Originally posted by UniOmni
How about we ignore that, and go by how the comics themselves present her, yea?

I'd peg her at a class 90 brick with low level hv, and low end durability.

She's never been shown as a Post crisis worthy Kryptonian in recent years, much less a PC one.

Umkaythanxbye!

She's actually been upgrading alot since her true origin has been coming into focus. She was class 90 when we thought she was aquaman's cousin. Due to her being inhibited by what ever. Umthanxbye

Originally posted by Accel
I think Black Bolt's more durable than most give him credit for. If PG does successfully speedblitz him, it's not like it would take him out before he could get out a yell.
As if He yells in every fight. If EVER.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As if He yells in every fight. If EVER.

He has used he yell in a fight. And frankly BB isn't stupid since he gets basic knowledge of who he's fighting I somehow doubt that he'll decide the try to slug it out with her.

I can't see PG beating Black Bolt. She's the leader of the JSA now so maybe Johns will toughen her up but based on her current resume? No way, speedblitz be damned.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He has used he yell in a fight. And frankly BB isn't stupid since he gets basic knowledge of who he's fighting I somehow doubt that he'll decide the try to slug it out with her.

I I doubt She is going to go anywhere near his mouth if she has basic knowlege as well. Heat vision from a far on that cute lil fork antenna for the win.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I I doubt She is going to go anywhere near his mouth if she has basic knowlege as well. Heat vision from a far on that cute lil fork antenna for the win.

By that argument he could just stay away from her eyes.

Anyway what stops him from responding to heat vision with a sentence or two?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
By that argument he could just stay away from her eyes.

Anyway what stops him from responding to heat vision with a sentence or two?

The fact that he'd be in such pain from the fork being melted all over his face should stop him nicely.

A lot of people respond to extreme pain by screaming....


Just saying....

Originally posted by Validus
A lot of people respond to extreme pain by screaming....


Just saying....

How far does the scream go? Can it outrace light? which is the speed most kryptonians move and heat vision moves?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How far does the scream go? Can it outrace light? which is the speed most kryptonians move and heat vision moves?
PeeGee has never been shown to move that fast or even a quarter that fast.

Plus HV isn't light speed either.

light > sound...

i thought we all knew that...

still BB ftw...

Hv moves at the speed of thought, since it's basically tk that operates on the molecular level.

Ever see Superman flying on earth, and his hv leaving a trail behind him?

Not the speed of light, but Thought.
And he'd likely just shield himself, problem solved.

Would Black Bolt be able to control the heat vision, disperse it, or draw it in as energy? Seems likely.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
light > sound...

i thought we all knew that...

BB's scream =/= sound

I thought we all knew that . . .

Originally posted by UniOmni
Hv moves at the speed of thought, since it's basically tk that operates on the molecular level.

Ever see Superman flying on earth, and his hv leaving a trail behind him?

Not the speed of light, but Thought.
And he'd likely just shield himself, problem solved.

Here's that scene of Superman and Wally "racing" and HV failing to catch Wally. Superman was moving at 2000 miles per second.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8118/flashv2209p0136tztf0.th.jpg

Hv isn't light.

It's not a true laser, like Majestic has.

Remember the comic where Flash was running from Superman who was trying to talk to him?

Superman put out a bit of hv to try and tag him, and get him to stop, and Flash outran it?

He hadn't even hit the sound barrier yet, iirc.

HV is telekinetic molecular agitation focused through the eyes of kryptonians and daxamites.

IT moves as fast as the speed of their thought.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
BB's scream =/= sound

I thought we all knew that . . .

Originally posted by Validus
Here's that scene of Superman and Wally "racing" and HV failing to catch Wally. Superman was moving at 2000 miles per second.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8118/flashv2209p0136tztf0.th.jpg

Can BB move that fast to evade it or react to it is the question.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
BB's scream messes with the electromagnetic field in an area and destructivley manipulates the electrons in substances. It's not a sonic attack, and therefore not confines to the speeds of sound.

He wouldn't need to outrace it.

He's shielded himself from lasers and etc before, why would her low powered ass hv be any different?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
BB's scream messes with the electromagnetic field in an area and destructivley manipulates the electrons in substances. It's not a sonic attack, and therefore not confines to the speeds of sound.

I have to pull out my supergirl comics with PG in them. PG seems as Powerful as SG. I don't think BB can beat Supergirl for a majority. EVen split. I'd take PG the same. The scream seems to have lost some of it's luster.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have to pull out my supergirl comics with PG in them. PG seems as Powerful as SG. I don't think BB can beat Supergirl for a majority. EVen split. I'd take PG the same. The scream seems to have lost some of it's luster.
They gave an excuse for PeeGee being as powerful as SG in those books. Their close proximity had a side effect of powering up Karen.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have to pull out my supergirl comics with PG in them. PG seems as Powerful as SG. I don't think BB can beat Supergirl for a majority. EVen split. I'd take PG the same. The scream seems to have lost some of it's luster. Meh. He probably doesn't need his scream to win this...

Originally posted by Validus
They gave an excuse for PeeGee being as powerful as SG in those books. Their close proximity had a side effect of powering up Karen.

Didn't have to do with the fact that she wasn't used to her powers or her heritage? Or something like that. PG was pretty tuff when she was just an atlantean. She's much better now. What ever. BB will be the new flavor of the month for the board and he will beat everyone this side of thanos with his scream. even if the other person is far faster.

The same was never said about Superman and OrigiSupes, was it Vally?

It'd explain how a post crisis Superman matched a PC Superman, but i doubt DC would let them take the luster away from post crisis Supes, given the push and all.

What speed feats does PG have that even begins to justify the words speedblitz?

Not to mention BB has done one of his own before.

Originally posted by UniOmni
The same was never said about Superman and OrigiSupes, was it Vally?

It'd explain how a post crisis Superman matched a PC Superman, but i doubt DC would let them take the luster away from post crisis Supes, given the push and all.

Post Crisis Supers didn't really seem to match the Pre Crisis Supers. And PG was a time displaced person. Which had somethign to do with her powerup around SG.

Originally posted by UniOmni
The same was never said about Superman and OrigiSupes, was it Vally?

It'd explain how a post crisis Superman matched a PC Superman, but i doubt DC would let them take the luster away from post crisis Supes, given the push and all.
The effect was different for every character. When Lex met Alex, he (Lex) became weaker. They never specified anything in regards to the Supermen.

Originally posted by UniOmni
What speed feats does PG have that even begins to justify the words speedblitz?

Not to mention BB has done one of his own before.

DC has repeatedly given all kryptonians the same powers. Including Superspeed.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Post Crisis Supers didn't really seem to match the Pre Crisis Supers. And PG was a time displaced person. Which had somethign to do with her powerup around SG.
Did you read the Superman tie in books? They were in a total stalemate.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DC has repeatedly given all kryptonians the same powers. Including Superspeed.

They don't all use them the same way.

Originally posted by Validus
Did you read the Superman tie in books? They were in a total stalemate.
Which would seem odd given the fact that the PC kryptonian is the one who broke the time barrier or reality barrier or what ever it was. I've only seen S1M do that. Post Crisis must have had a power up. If not, Then he would be at precrisis lvls and irgo every one in DC would need to be examined due to thier performances with, or around, or against him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DC has repeatedly given all kryptonians the same powers. Including Superspeed.

So to your mind, any solar powered kryptonian can pull off a speedblitz, even if they haven't done so yet?

Huh.

PG isn't a simple cut and dry case though.

She's not particularly impressive, except for her cup size.

And it's debateable that she's even stronger than the normal showings of BlackBolt at all.

Originally posted by UniOmni
So to your mind, any solar powered kryptonian can pull off a speedblitz, even if they haven't done so yet?

Huh.

PG isn't a simple cut and dry case though.

She's not particularly impressive, except for her cup size.

And it's debateable that she's even stronger than the normal showings of BlackBolt at all.

Well see. She was already Stronger than his normal lvls when she was just an atlantean. She was stronger than aquaman who is around 80 tons. I'd wager as the leader of the JS, well see some feats. Stick around. I"m not giving BB the majority knowing that he isn't as fast or strong or as durable as the average kryptonian.

Originally posted by UniOmni
So to your mind, any solar powered kryptonian can pull off a speedblitz, even if they haven't done so yet?

They should be able to.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Especially when people who are very similar have the feat.

But what you don't seem to get, is that she's not the average kryptonian.

She's not as fast, strong or durable as the average Kryptonian either.

And for someone who fights the Sphinx, Thor, Hulk, Gladiator, Ikaris and others and doesn't seem to be physically outclassed, her being stronger than class 80 Drippy means squat.

What's she gonna do?

Punch him? He's been hit hardeer.

HV him? If he takes the blast, which i'd seriously doubt he'd be written to do, ehh.
She's done nothing exceptional with hv to tell me it'd be a deciding factor.

And her durability isn't leagues above his. Read JSA. See how she gets manhandled by true top tiers.

http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/94028/kung_fu_fighting/Tom%20Jones%20-%20Kung%20Fu%20Fighting

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
They should be able to.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Especially when people who are very similar have the feat.

Rumsfield? Is that you?

That would be a crappy stance to debate from, in all seriousness.

That'd be like me saying Surfer can make a star go nova, since Nova did, and she wasn't anywhere near as experienced with the PC as him.

Unless they proved the ability on panel, it's reaching to try and give them potential feats.

PG hasn't shown the ability to speedblitz, i'm not gonna give it to her.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Rumsfield? Is that you?



Originally posted by UniOmni
That would be a crappy stance to debate from, in all seriousness.

It's also a logical fallacy if used as an argument. I was just using it to point out that since she is Kryptonian it's not unreasonable to say that she has powers that Kryptonians have.

Originally posted by UniOmni
That'd be like me saying Surfer can make a star go nova, since Nova did, and she wasn't anywhere near as experienced with the PC as him.

Unless they proved the ability on panel, it's reaching to try and give them potential feats.

PG hasn't shown the ability to speedblitz, i'm not gonna give it to her.

The way DC has desgined Kryptonians its hardly stretching to say that she has superspeed IMO.

From a position as literal as yours it's impossible to argue that characters with superstrength can lift any weight except for the exact ones they have been shown to

http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/94028/kung_fu_fighting/Tom%20Jones%20-%20Kung%20Fu%20Fighting

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos




It's also a logical fallacy if used as an argument. I was just using it to point out that since she is Kryptonian it's not unreasonable to say that she has powers that Kryptonians have.



The way DC has desgined Kryptonians its hardly stretching to say that she has superspeed IMO.

From a position as literal as yours it's impossible to argue that characters with superstrength can lift any weight except for the exact ones they have been shown to

See, but the thing you're doing is mistaking a powerset, with power applications.

BB has superspeed himself, since he flies pretty much the same way Superman and his clan do, by manipulating the gravitons around themselves.

He's done a move that would fall under the category of speedblitz once that i recall, but he's done it at least.

Power Girl, not so much.

I don't try to argue from a point of rigid literal showings, but i also try not to give where they haven't proved.

BB controls electrons, and has manipulated minature blackholes in combat before.

That doesn't mean i can say he'd open a minature blackhole in his hand and absorb all the hv she pours out at him.

And you've also got to remember, that Karen isn't a regular kryptonian.

She's not anywhere near as powerful, fast or durable.

She has a record of consistent underachievement.

He's got a record of consistent good showings, and i personally can't wait for SW 05, where he takes on Sentry.

Originally posted by UniOmni
See, but the thing you're doing is mistaking a powerset, with power applications.

BB has superspeed himself, since he flies pretty much the same way Superman and his clan do, by manipulating the gravitons around themselves.

He's done a move that would fall under the category of speedblitz once that i recall, but he's done it at least.

Power Girl, not so much.

I don't try to argue from a point of rigid literal showings, but i also try not to give where they haven't proved.

BB controls electrons, and has manipulated minature blackholes in combat before.

That doesn't mean i can say he'd open a minature blackhole in his hand and absorb all the hv she pours out at him.

And you've also got to remember, that Karen isn't a regular kryptonian.

She's not anywhere near as powerful, fast or durable.

She has a record of consistent underachievement.

He's got a record of consistent good showings, and i personally can't wait for SW 05, where he takes on Sentry.

And I can't wait for her as the leader of the Justice Society to kick some ass. You'd be seriously not thinking if you think they are gonna have her as a lame on such a powerful team.

She's been a lame on that powerful team.

And like i said, BB is fighting Sentry next month.

Originally posted by UniOmni
She's been a lame on that powerful team.

And like i said, BB is fighting Sentry next month.

She's a kryptonian. In the history of DC, they have NEVER let any Kryptonian be lame. So much for your wishful thinking. Even the Dogs are uber.

BB I think would win against PG, but he should be getting his @ss handed to him next month against Sentry.

BB wins.

Oh, and I'm actually sort of cringing at the thought of him fighting Sentry next month... in the past years or so, BB has been downgraded from a high level matter manipulator with complete utter control over electrons and a quasi-sonic scream that can shatter planets.... to Banshee on vocal steroids.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She's a kryptonian. In the history of DC, they have NEVER let any Kryptonian be lame. So much for your wishful thinking. Even the Dogs are uber.
Except for Karen's entire mediocre history? I'm not even talking about the Atlantean days either. She was lame long before then.

Originally posted by guy222
blackbolt

Guy222 is alawys right.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She's a kryptonian. In the history of DC, they have NEVER let any Kryptonian be lame. So much for your wishful thinking. Even the Dogs are uber.

Which tells us quite a lot about DC

The fact that she happens to be a kryptonian seems to be all that Nvr is going on, despite the fact that she's never even been truely top tier in showing.

Her durability is laughable, her speed is nondescript in the big picture(speedblitz my black ass) her strength isn't anything beyond Thing, and her hv is bottom of the barrel.

I don't see what Nvr sees, besides the bloodline.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
BB wins.

Oh, and I'm actually sort of cringing at the thought of him fighting Sentry next month... in the past years or so, BB has been downgraded from a high level matter manipulator with complete utter control over electrons and a quasi-sonic scream that can shatter planets.... to Banshee on vocal steroids.

He still has control over electrons, as seen in the mini Jenkins did a couple of years ago.

They mentioned him being able to disintegrate people with a thought.

And in Illuminati, he recently tore open a hole in reality with his voice, by way of some machine or something.

Or he powered a machine that tore open a hole in reality with his voice, i gotta reread the issue.

For Vally - BB screams and reality tears open.
A guardian has to sacrifice his life to get the same effect.

BB>Average smurf

BB has defeated hulk twice, Gladiator twice, beat Ikaris, man handles the thing. BB can increase his strength or he uses his outrages powers, antimatter, quasi-scream, electron manipulation, psionic powers, transmutation, master blow. BB wins the majority.

Originally posted by UniOmni
He still has control over electrons, as seen in the mini Jenkins did a couple of years ago.

They mentioned him being able to disintegrate people with a thought.

And in Illuminati, he recently tore open a hole in reality with his voice, by way of some machine or something.

Or he powered a machine that tore open a hole in reality with his voice, i gotta reread the issue.

For Vally - BB screams and reality tears open.
A guardian has to sacrifice his life to get the same effect.

BB>Average smurf I believe what happened was that the machine channeled the force of his voice into one concentrated area, or somesuch.

Despite that, BB used to be able to turn a boulder into an antimatter bomb on a whim. Now he's a guy with a couple tricks and some strong vocals. Believe me, if a writer who gives his history some credit decides to write him half-decently, then I'll be the first to jump for joy. But I can't say that I'm not apprehensive...

BB doesn't have psionic powers.

He can simulate them tho, by directly manipulating the electrons in someones brain, ala Classic Ion.

Mind you battlebaggers, i'm not saying BB = Ion by any means. That's just how classic Ion experimented with mind control/reading.

That's all.

Originally posted by the Darkone
BB has defeated hulk twice, Gladiator twice, beat Ikaris, man handles the thing. BB can increase his strength or he uses his outrages powers, antimatter, quasi-scream, electron manipulation, psionic powers, transmutation, master blow. BB wins the majority. He can also create constructs, solidify air, water, and anything else, cause the ground to melt like butter, hypnotise people, take control over people's actions, take control of miniature black holes, and more.

BB wins this without too much trouble.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I believe what happened was that the machine channeled the force of his voice into one concentrated area, or somesuch.

Despite that, BB used to be able to turn a boulder into an antimatter bomb on a whim. Now he's a guy with a couple tricks and some strong vocals. Believe me, if a writer who gives his history some credit decides to write him half-decently, then I'll be the first to jump for joy. But I can't say that I'm not apprehensive...

I honestly doubt we'll be seeing him use antimatter freely anymore in the future.

If BB took all his older showings, and his great record(he's got losses like everyone else, but not many, kinda like Superman) and went into the DCU, he'd be premiere elite material easily.

He's just not as popular as other characters tho, and like Darkseid, he's gone from great versatility to a one trick character, and if that trick fails, the writer gives up on him.

Dreaming of a bygone era.

hmm

If we assume that PG can pull off a quick attack to take him out she can win. If we assume that she can't she'll die.

Originally posted by UniOmni
For Vally - BB screams and reality tears open.

Wrong.

True, he does appear to be more of a DC-esque character, but I'd like to see a couple more of those in Marvel, personally. I guess that's just how it works, though.

Well, in the Inhuman's maxi-series, it was said that he had never been defeated, and the writer specifically adressed (and retconned) all of his major losses to wins, as well as, I believe, addressed his major victories.

Post that, I don't recall what losses he had. Obviously we can expect to see some in the upcoming World War Hulk series, however.

To Vally, i already admitted my recollection of the comic was hazy. Smurf set it right. LOSER!!

And to SC, why would we assume she can blitz him when she hasn't shown the ability, but he has?

And he already handled a blitz of sorts from Ikaris, so i wouldn't count on that.

Yes, i have to steal all your joy from debating, cuz i love to lick the tears of the wounded!

Originally posted by UniOmni
And to SC, why would we assume she can blitz him when she hasn't shown the ability, but he has?

(see: the responses I gave you before)

Originally posted by UniOmni
And he already handled a blitz of sorts from Ikaris, so i wouldn't count on that.

Why didn't you bring that up before?

Cuz i wanted to wait until you were weak, and then move for the kill.

Tears of the defeated sustain me in the face of he who shall not be called upon.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Cuz i wanted to wait until you were weak, and then move for the kill.

shakefist curse joo!!!!!111

Originally posted by UniOmni
Tears of the defeated sustain me in the face of he who shall not be called upon.

Hastur, Hastur, Hast-

Hastur? What's that?

I'd like to go and say that I agree with Nvr about PG speedblitzing..........., and the fact that she's kryptonian says she should be able to.........but she does have some bad showings and she's definitely not equal to say, Kara Zor-El. I'm not sure how well BB defends against the blitz.

I don't know if she can take the scream mainly.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hastur? What's that?

And I thought that was a pretty good joke too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastur

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How far does the scream go? Can it outrace light? which is the speed most kryptonians move and heat vision moves? no kryptonian moves faster than light....

Originally posted by King KAM
no kryptonian moves faster than light....

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hastur? What's that?

I'd like to go and say that I agree with Nvr about PG speedblitzing..........., and the fact that she's kryptonian says she should be able to.........but she does have some bad showings and she's definitely not equal to say, Kara Zor-El. I'm not sure how well BB defends against the blitz.

I don't know if she can take the scream mainly.

Hey trickster. There are a couple of other stone faced blue grey guys. Greyven, Darkseid's other son has been doing a couple of nasty things lateley, and Blaster is blue grey too. He can even hurt the eternals with his powers. :P Kara doesn't need to survive the scream. She just needs to move fast enough to get behind him and pull that antenna out of his head.

she has the speed advantage, how strong is BB in h2h just wondering.

To NVR, and what speedfeats have she done to suggest she's capable of doing that manuever?